The Afterlives of Quentin Deranque, Pt. 2

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: "The Afterlives of Quentin Deranque, Pt. 2"

Podcast: It Could Happen Here (Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts)
Date: May 5, 2026
Hosts/Panel: James Stout, Molly, Vic

---

Episode Overview

This episode continues the exploration of Quentin Deranque, a far-right activist in France whose violent death during a rally has since been seized upon by fascist and nationalist groups attempting to cast him as a martyr. The hosts discuss the events surrounding the scuffle that led to Deranque’s injuries and death, analyze the weaponization of martyrdom in right-wing circles, and reflect on the cultural rituals that follow such deaths—especially the efforts to use them to inspire further violence and intimidation. They also examine the ripple effects in the Netherlands, where far-right groups attempted a politically charged vigil.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Event: The Death of Quentin Deranque

• Setting: Quentin was providing "security" at a Nemesis rally when fights broke out between antifascists and "brownshirts."
• Who Started It?: Both sides blame the other; left-leaning media finds it credible that fascists initiated violence due to photographic evidence of weapons.
  • James (02:16): "I found an independent, while left leaning media website, Contrail... with multiple videos and photos of the far right being there with weapons including iron bars, crutches, motorcycle helmets, and at least one smoke grenade.”
• Weapons as ‘Everyday’ Objects: Fascists often use plausibly deniable weapons (pipes, helmets, flagpoles).
  • Molly (03:36): “So after you use it as a weapon, it doesn't look like premeditation because I just had this... I don't know why you would just have a whole pipe. No, he was on his way to do some plumbing.”
• Photographic Evidence: The only confirmed public photo of Quentin comes from his family’s lawyer, complicating attempts to identify him in rally footage.

2. Violence Dynamics and Aftermath

• Scale of the Fight: It was a “melee,” not a one-sided attack—group-on-group violence lasting several minutes.
  • James (08:02): “The fighting went on for like five minutes, which is a long time for a street fight.”
  • Molly (08:11): “That's a lot of minutes to be fighting.”
• Deranque’s Injuries and Isolation: After the fight, Quentin walked over a kilometer while heavily injured instead of accepting help, and died later.
  • Molly (10:12): “Where were his friends that he walked off alone?... So these people want to make him a martyr, but like they're the ones that let him die.”
  • James (12:06): “I find it sad because it’s a death that may have been preventable with proper medical intervention, also with friends that should have backed him.”

3. Martyrdom and Political Co-optation

• Instrumentalizing Death: Far-right groups immediately attempted to use Quentin’s story as a rallying point; comparisons are made to Nazis’ “Horst Wessel” and attempts to create American right-wing martyrs.
  • Vic (12:28): “He’s only useful to them when he’s fucking dead.”
  • Molly (13:11): “The right is constantly trying to create a Horst Wessel, and it just kind of never works.”
• Failed Martyr Creation: Right-wing groups often fail to maintain martyrs in public consciousness—even cases viewed as perfect for the role (e.g., Ashley Babbitt, Lavoy Finicum, etc.) fade quickly.
  • Molly (31:13): “Most of the right wing martyrs are people who died in prison or were killed by the police. We don’t have a lot of sort of street deaths like this.”
  • Vic (33:18): “But in order to have a martyr, that person needs to have had value in their eyes in the first place. And I think that’s what's missing.”

4. The Utrecht Vigil and Dutch Far-Right Rituals

• Intimidation Under the Guise of Mourning: Far-right network “Defend Netherlands” organizes a vigil at the Utrecht Antifa Center (ACU), seen as an intimidation tactic rather than a genuine memorial.
  • James (19:21): “There’s absolutely no reason to travel to Utrecht to hold that vigil other than to being threatening and intimidating.”
• Symbolic Appropriation and Revisionism: The group uses historical Dutch flags associated with WWII-era collaborators, and even brands them with Dutch East India Company logos—a “loud dog whistle.”
  • James (24:09): “They’ve also added a VOC logo from the Dutch East India Company onto the flag.”
  • Vic (25:22): “This is what you get from, like, European ultra nationalism is these incredibly niche racism.”
• Demonstration Outcome: Minimal violence occurred; larger antifascist turnout.
  • James (38:55): “At the demonstration, the Nazis were outnumbered, like three to one, maybe more.”

5. Media Manipulation and Propaganda

• Imagery Falsification: A.I.-generated or idealized images of Quentin were used on banners, whitewashing his features for propaganda impact.
  • Molly (21:30): “If I ever get murdered and you’re holding a rally for my memory, use a real fucking picture of me.”
  • Vic (22:08): “Old school German propaganda of, like, an ‘Aryan specimen,’ where this was, like, a skinny little guy who's half Hispanic.”

6. Martyr Politics: Why It Fails on the Right

• Lack of Empathy or Genuine Connection: Right-wing movements typically have little personal attachment to the supposed martyr, undermining authenticity.
  • James (33:19): “In order to have a martyr, that person needs to have had value to them in the first place… and I think that’s what’s missing.”
• Contrast to Left-Wing Martyrs: Leftist martyrs tend to be seen as “blameless victims,” which resonates more persuasively; right-wing deaths often lack this innocence.
  • Molly (34:04): “They’re blameless. If you got into a fight at a Nazi rally… it’s not a blameless death.”

7. Aftershocks, Legal Action, and Community Impact

• Retaliation Attempts: After the Utrecht vigil, a smoke bomb was thrown into the ACU community center.
  • James (28:38): “The day after the rally there was an unknown person who threw a smoke bomb inside the aku.”
• Community Response: Antifascist turnout vastly exceeded the fascist presence, and community fundraising to repair damage is ongoing.
  • James (38:41): “There is a donate link for the AKU because it's also entirely volunteer run... you can find the donate link to support the local community center.”

---

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps and Attribution)

• On the use of plausible weapons:
  • Molly (03:36): “So after you use it as a weapon, it doesn't look like premeditation because I just had this...”
• On martyrdom and fascist opportunism:
  • Vic (12:28): “He’s only useful to them when he’s fucking dead.”
  • Molly (13:11): “The right is constantly trying to create a Horst Wessel, and it just kind of never works.”
• On the vigil as intimidation:
  • James (19:21): “There’s absolutely no reason to travel to Utrecht to hold that vigil other than to being threatening and intimidating.”
• On imagery and propaganda:
  • Molly (21:30): “If I ever get murdered and you’re holding a rally for my memory, use a real fucking picture of me.”
• On the futility of fascist martyrdom:
  • James (33:19): “In order to have a martyr, that person needs to have had value in their eyes in the first place. And I think that’s what's missing.”

---

Important Timestamps

• [02:16] Contrail reporting; evidence fascists brought weapons
• [05:14] Limited photographic evidence of Quentin at the event
• [08:02] Duration and scale of the fight
• [10:12] Quentin’s isolation post-injury and questions around responsibility
• [12:28] Discussion of exploitation of Quentin’s death
• [19:21] Utrecht vigil described as intimidation
• [21:30] “Martyr” banners use AI-generated, idealized images
• [28:38] Post-vigil smoke bomb attack
• [38:41] ACU community fundraising appeal

---

Memorable/Funny Moments

• Joking about everyday items as weapons (“I was on my way to break big rocks into small rocks.” — Molly, 04:49)
• Satirical takes on nationalist nostalgia for the Dutch East India Company:
  • Vic (24:22): “I’m a monarchist for spice trading.”
  • James (26:13): “You know, they will get scurvy because they want to be eating fruit.”
• Molly’s campaign for people to pre-select their “martyr photo” (21:34)

---

Summary Flow

The episode traces the immediate context of Quentin Deranque’s death, peeling back media narratives, the reality of violent rallies, and the ways far-right groups weaponize such deaths for propaganda and intimidation (with a failed attempt to stoke nationalist fervor in the Netherlands). The hosts debunk the right’s attempts at creating enduring martyrs, contrasting it with historical left-wing movements, and contextualize the rituals, performances, and absurdities that follow in modern fascist culture.

For listeners wanting more on the ACU or antifascist organizing, see the episode show notes for donation links.

---

End of summary.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[Molly]

With Vrbal's last minute deals, you can save over $50 on your spring getaway. So whether it's a mountain escape with friends, a family week at the beach

[Debbie Brown]

or sightseeing in a new city, there's

[Molly]

still time to get great discounts. Book your next day now. Average savings $72 select homes only.

[Tom Boger]

American Soccer is about to explode.

[Tab Ramos]

The World cup is coming.

[James]

Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip.

[Tab Ramos]

I'm Tab Ramos.

[Tom Boger]

I'm Tom Boke. On our podcast Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team.

[Tab Ramos]

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals.

[Tom Boger]

Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Boger and Tab ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect Hire skills first. Hiring helps you see talent others miss. Like more than 70 million star skilled through alternative routes, let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tear the paper ceiling.org brought to you by opportunityatwork and the ad Council.

[James]

Wanna keep up with everything trendy.

[Vic]

From breaking news to shareable jokes, pop

[James]

culture bites to viral food spots. It's all on TikTok. Download TikTok now to explore. We're picking back up at the rally where Quinton was in the capacity of security for Nemesis. At some point a confrontation developed between anti fascists and brownshirts. Clearly the instigator depends on the political orientation of the media that reports on it.

[Molly]

Like we've all seen scuffles like this. It's just they don't usually devolve to a point where someone dies. Like I can imagine. I don't know. I can imagine the outbreak of this scuffle because we've all seen it.

[Vic]

Yeah, exactly.

[James]

I'm not going to litigate on who started or who not. I'll never know. And it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter. Yeah, but I found an independent while left leaning media website Contrail. They published several pieces on the events with claims that the fascists started to roll. I find that one personally also more credible because they have multiple videos of photos of the far right being there with weapons including iron bars, crutches, motorcycle helmets, and at least one smoke grenade.

[Molly]

I mean, they showed up to someone else's event to disrupt it, to cause a problem. They got in the middle of it. They brought weapons. It's hard to say who started the fight, but I can tell who wanted to.

[James]

Exactly. Like, I've. I've seen security at events and protests, but I've never.

[Vic]

Okay.

[James]

Unless they were cops. I've never seen them carrying weapons.

[Molly]

Oh, I have. Well, that's more common in the United States. It's very common here.

[Vic]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Molly]

Oh, is that a pipe in his hand?

[James]

Yes, it. It is.

[Molly]

So he's wearing a balaclava and carrying a pipe.

[Vic]

Yeah, yeah.

[Molly]

It's not a great look.

[Vic]

It's kind of classic. You're a Nazi fit. Skinny jeans.

[James]

The sneakers. Always the sneakers.

[Molly]

Always, though. What are those, little Adidas?

[Vic]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. You gotta pick a brand that.

[James]

Yeah.

[Vic]

Has been there since the beginning. Maybe some Pumas in there too.

[James]

Oh, of course. There's also Pumas in there. Here's another picture. This, like, you can also see the motorcycle helmet in here in disguise. Hands.

[Molly]

Oh, yeah.

[Vic]

Okay. Yeah.

[Molly]

Motorcycle helmet's great because it's. You put it on to protect your head, or you can hit somebody with it because he's holding it in his hand. He is not wearing it. That is a weapon.

[Vic]

Yeah, but then it.

[Molly]

Look, you have the plausible deniability of, I rode my motorcycle here, or this is for defense.

[James]

Yeah, that's what I also find. They often use, like, things that you could really have with. Like, they also use belts or sticks and stuff that you could carry with you. Flag poles. Like stuff that you could carry with you. With you without it being as immediately recognized as a weapon. Like if you were carrying knives.

[Molly]

So after you use it as a weapon, it doesn't look like premeditation because I just had this.

[James]

Yeah, the pipe.

[Molly]

I don't know why you would just have a whole pipe. No, he was on his way to do some plumbing. Mario and Luigi.

[Vic]

Yeah. Maybe he found. Maybe he found it.

[James]

I can imagine myself carrying a sledgehammer. Be like, no, officer, this is my.

[Molly]

I was on my way to break big rocks into small rocks.

[James]

Yeah, exactly.

[Vic]

I'm offended.

[James]

I don't think that would fly.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

To be honest. But those I wanted to share as well.

[Molly]

So he did show up with a pipe.

[Vic]

That wasn't him. I don't think he wasn't it.

[Molly]

That was one of his friends.

[James]

That was one of. That was one of the Far right activists that was present there.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

One media account said he was wearing a blue hoodie, Quentin. And I haven't seen that in the pictures that I could find.

[Molly]

Well, it looks like the only confirmed photograph of him is that one that was provided by his family's lawyer to the media. So we don't know if any of those other photos even are him. Right?

[James]

No, there's also not that much footage of it, to be honest.

[Molly]

Right. I mean, I guess there is the footage of him like lying on the ground, but I mean, like. Yeah, like the only, the only picture like, of his face is that one that was provided to the media by his family.

[James]

Insofar as I found. Yes.

[Molly]

Yeah.

[James]

And then in one of a few of the articles, there's like one where he's like half balaclava. Then that was at some Nazi rally in Lyon, so.

[Molly]

So it wasn't his first Nazi rally.

[James]

No, it was. It was not.

[Vic]

Okay.

[James]

In any case, I think he would have a hard time defending that it was purely self defense on part of the security of that counter demonstration.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Again, no one is saying that he deserved to be beaten to death. We're just trying to figure out what happened here.

[James]

Yeah, exactly.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Contra Atique also published Another article on February 20 about acts of violence from fascist militants in just Leon. There had been around 102 acts of violence as of 2010.

[Vic]

Yeah, that's one of their spuds. From what I understand, there's lots of

[James]

groups that formed in response to like the. The fascist threats that were there. And also a lot of the FAS violence is them just harassing brown people or like Muslim people. So it's hard to get a proper estimate. But I found this one very detailed. They mentioned like from the top of their head, like 25 different instances. The article for that will be in the show notes so people can read it themselves. Yeah. Okay. Now I'll cite this from franceinfo FR eyewitness accounts from residents who saw the flight fighting take place. Christine also witnessed the violence. I saw a fight over there with lots of young people. They were hitting each other, hitting each other, hitting each other. And then I saw a young man fall, she recounts. Maxime also saw the attackers flee. They shouted disperse. When they saw, I think that they might have hit him hard. They went off into all the streets. Everyone got out of their cars. Some guys on scooters stopped. They put him, I assume, Quinton in the recovery position. Resident explains neighbors then came to aid the injured. Another neighbor, Willem, saw him get up after being beaten. I went outside. I saw someone with blood on his hands. He looked a bit dazed. He was just standing. But he refused to go to the hospital even though they offered to. I was just saw the people talking to him who told him to go to the hospital. In any case, what is certain is that he refused.

[Molly]

So this was a much larger. It wasn't like 10 on one. It was like a group versus a group.

[James]

It was a group versus a group.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

It was a melee.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Okay.

[James]

I'm not sure which article it exactly was, but said that the fighting went on for like five minutes, which is a long.

[Molly]

It doesn't sound like a long, but for a fight that's like a long. That's a lot of minutes to be fighting.

[Vic]

Yeah, yeah. Fighting is normally pretty fast, especially fighting of this level of violence.

[Molly]

Especially if you're getting hit in the

[James]

head with a pipe or a motorcycle helmet.

[Vic]

Yeah. There's a little video of it. Like, I've seen a couple of very small videos of the actual confrontation. It's not like it gives the impression like because of the. The big repercussions, this was like a huge set piece, but it's not. It's like what, three dozen people maybe, at most. Yeah.

[James]

And it was just like in. In some streets.

[Vic]

Yeah. Looks like street corner.

[James]

Yeah. It wasn't a battle of Thermo Thermopylae or something.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

I'm sponsored by not being able to pronounce foreign words outside of English.

[Molly]

Well, you could just tell us that that's how it's said in Dutch and we would all have to believe you because we're not going to find out.

[James]

I'm going to use that as a caveat the next time.

[Molly]

Yeah, that's how we say it in the Netherlands. Stupid Americans.

[James]

Yes. I'll be saved by the fact that like Denmark and the Netherlands, nobody speaks Dutch or that they confuse Danish with Dutch, which is also very funny. But also.

[Vic]

Yeah, I did see some kind of funny posts regarding Green with that.

[James]

Okay, then we're entering a whole other discussion.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

But anyway, after the fighting, about half an hour and a half later in the Fulcheron district on the banks of the Seine, Quinton was evacuated in serious condition by firefighters. To get there, he had to walk more than a kilometer and a half, cross two bridges and traverse the Lyon peninsula. His route between the attack and his arrival at the hospital is unknown sound.

[Molly]

So it sounds like he's just sort of staggered off, disoriented, something like that. Because he was probably bleeding in his brain.

[Vic]

Yeah. He like, he has a tbi, right?

[James]

I would imagine so. I just find it incredibly sad, to be honest.

[Molly]

It is sad, but also that like, so like these bystanders are saying, hey man, like, let's get you in an ambulance, let's get you to the hospital. Where were his friends that he walked off alone?

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Where were the guys he came with? Were the guys that were fighting on his side? How did he manage to walk off alone? So these people want to make him a martyr, but like they're the ones that let him die.

[James]

Yeah. This is also why I'm like, I'm not going to say he was fatally beaten because like, who knows?

[Molly]

It sounds like a lot of people have some responsibility here.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

If you die, if you die after being hit in the head, the person who hit you in the head killed you.

[James]

That's how it works.

[Molly]

But like, why did his friends let him walk away alone?

[Vic]

Yeah. Knowing he was injured. Right.

[Molly]

Knowing even if you weren't injured, you never walk away from something like this alone because someone could follow you and keep beating you.

[Vic]

Yeah, yeah. If there are people who are trying to hurt you, the best time for them to do it is when you're on your own.

[Molly]

Like you never leave an action alone.

[Vic]

Yeah. That whole thing, like, I guess I should just say, like, like, I don't know. When you fucking hit people in the head, this is one of the consequences that, that is on the list of possible consequences. Like I fucking hate people who kick them, hit people in the head. Come from a place in the world where like that kind of violence is more common because guns are less accessible to people. And like, yeah, people are gonna fucking die sometimes when you do that, like, it's serious.

[Molly]

You don't have to intend to have killed them. Like you one good punch to the head in an otherwise very fair, normal fight. Yeah. Someone could die.

[Vic]

Yeah. People have died from a single punch to the head that started a fight and ended their life at the same time. I think people sometimes, you know, you watch boxing or wrestling or whatever and you, you see people fighting very hard and not dying. But like you punch someone with your bare knuckles to their bare head and they could die. Even if it's only once. Even you didn't mean to. Yeah.

[James]

It's just one, one small vein and one vein that gets nicked that can cause a whole lot of trouble in the head.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

And even if it's not death, then

[Vic]

there's still like life altering consequences.

[Molly]

Be careful with your brain Kids.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Which is why you need to wear the helmet on your head instead of

[Molly]

in a hand, instead of just using it as a bludgeon.

[Vic]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James]

I can only come back to, like, I find it sad because it's a death that may. May have been preventable with, like, proper medical intervention, also with, like, friends that. That should have backed him.

[Vic]

Yeah, it's pretty sad that this guy felt like he was part of something and those guys left him to die alone on the street.

[Molly]

Like, so now. Now they're trying to take his death and. And profit from it politically, and then.

[Vic]

Yeah, he's only useful to them when he's fucking dead.

[Molly]

I mean, you know, he's. He's. He's a little horse vessel.

[Vic]

Yeah. That's the nature of fascism.

[James]

But, yeah, it's almost exactly like Charlie Kirk, where he was more useful as a martyr than when he was just a propagandist, but then he turned out

[Molly]

not to even be good at that.

[James]

I don't think we can fault him for being a bad martyr. Of all the things. Of all the things we can criticize Charlie Kirk for, that is not one of them.

[Vic]

Yeah, that's not on him.

[Molly]

Right. But I think in order to have a successful martyrdom, you have to have someone to blame, and there was just not enough publicity around the guy who actually killed Charlie Kirk. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Horse Vessel was killed by communists, so we're mad at communists,

[Vic]

but, like, there was an attempt to pin that on the trans community. Right. Like, it did. It didn't seek the landing, and it didn't work. Say that that guy is accused of killing Karlie Turk as well.

[Molly]

Exactly. I don't know. But the right is constantly trying to create a horse vessel, and it just kind of never works.

[Vic]

Yeah, well, I mean, that's how the Spanish Civil War started as well. Right. Like, they. It was probably easier in an age with less information and, like, party propaganda.

[Molly]

I mean, these days. These days, we would all be talking about, like, was Horse Vessel a pig? It kind of seems like maybe would

[Vic]

have had a Twitter account, and we would have.

[Molly]

And we would have said, what was he doing with all those girls?

[James]

Or we would have found his racist tweets. Yeah.

[Vic]

Oh, well, that would have been a barrier.

[Molly]

He seems like a little. The head of his local Sturmab Tylon. Of course he had racist tweets, but being a pimp is not conducive to traditional Aryan values. Mick, please.

[James]

Okay, okay, okay. There goes my career change. God damn it.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

[Vic]

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host]

May is Mental Health Awareness Month and your twenties, they can feel like a lot. On the psychology of youf 20s podcast, we unpack the anxiety and the overthinking, the heartbreak, the identity crisis, all of it that comes with being in your 20s. Because if you've ever thought, is anybody else feeling this way? They definitely are.

[Molly]

I feel like my 20s was a process of checking off everything that I was not good at to get to what I was good at. Oftentimes we take everything a little bit too seriously and we get lost in things that we later on decide weren't even important to us to begin with. There was a large chunk of my

[Debbie Brown]

twenties that I like, was just so wanting to like be out of that phase, out of my skin.

[Molly]

And I just like really regret not living in the present more.

[Podcast Host]

Each week we break down the science behind what you're going through and give you real tools to navigate it. Your 20s aren't about having it all figured out. They're about understanding yourself just a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Molly]

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection.

[Debbie Brown]

This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self discovery and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well being and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected, we're becoming more individualized. But we actually need people and connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you. To hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tom Boger]

American soccer is about to explode.

[Tab Ramos]

The World cup is coming.

[James]

Ramos sending on Ernie Stewart, the Chip Score usa.

[Tab Ramos]

I'm Tab Ramos.

[Tom Boger]

I'm Tom Bo on our podcast Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines.

[Tab Ramos]

I'm not worried about Pulisic. I'm not worried about Baligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back.

[Tom Boger]

The biggest decisions.

[Tab Ramos]

You're going to look at stats and numbers. He has no shot at making this World cup team.

[Tom Boger]

And the truth about the U.S. national team.

[Tab Ramos]

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals.

[Tom Boger]

The World cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen Inside American Soccer with Tom Boger and Tab ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[James]

I'm now going into the last section, which is about what happened here in Utrecht. They attempted to martyr him and the Netherlands had said, we're coming to the AKU to hold a vigil for him. Defend Netherlands is man. Umbrella term is not the perfect word. There's lots of local defence chapters, but they have like where they organize, but they also have like a main telegram group. So these are people who explicitly came to Utrecht to hold this vigil. The reason why, I think is because they think acu. ACU stands for Antifa Center Utrecht.

[Vic]

Oh, wow.

[James]

Yes. It used to be a former auto garage back in the 80s, I think. So it stands for Auto Center Utrecht.

[Molly]

Oh, my God.

[James]

Yes.

[Vic]

I'm at the auto shop. I'm at the Antifa Center. I'm at the combination auto shop. Antifa Center.

[Molly]

I'm at the Four Seasons. Total landscape.

[Vic]

That's what it is.

[James]

Yeah. But it was a pretty big deal because for reasons that I still can't understand, like the mayor didn't instantly ban this very obvious intimidation attempt and threat. Hold a fictional in your backyard or something. It's like there's absolutely no reason to travel to Utrecht to hold that fischl other than to being threatening and intimidating.

[Molly]

But I think that's part of why they love trying to make these martyrs is because it's again, it's this like being the victim. Like they. They killed one of us. How could. This isn't a politic. Isn't political. You can't ban our event. Right. This isn't a Nazi rally, it's a vigil.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

It's this victimhood thing and it does make you harder to. To suppress.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Yeah.

[James]

I still find it unbelievable that the local authorities didn't do it.

[Molly]

Oh, it's t. It's tacky.

[James]

I was also there that evening because when I do activist stuff, I mostly do like, like, first aid at events or. Or protests.

[Molly]

Somebody's got to do it.

[James]

I'm not a confrontational person. So. Yeah, I'll give you a band aid later. That's. That's. That's where. Where. Where. I'm good.

[Molly]

You're a non combatant.

[James]

Exactly. And I actually came from the office that day, so I was also looking very inconspicuous, which was good because I ended up standing between. On my left, all. All the anti fascists that. On my right, all the black left fascists. I was like. And then two lines of like, riot.

[Molly]

I'm just the band aid guy.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

It's like in a narrow alley. So left I'm enclosed, on my right I'm enclosed. And then this girl boss cop comes up to me like, do you want to get out of here? I was like, yes. It seems like it could go wrong. And then she guided me through the fucking fascist.

[Vic]

That must have been fun.

[Molly]

Yeah, I like to be a lot closer to an exit than that. Good on you.

[James]

So it's even worse because I was with someone who was also doing first aid, and we tried to get back to the location, and we. We accidentally went into an alley that. At a dead end, and when we turned around, there were Nazis walking there. I was like, oh.

[Vic]

Oh, fuck, no.

[James]

Yeah, but I think they just thought that it was a way around and had just followed us because they thought it was a way through. They didn't actually, like, confront us or anything.

[Molly]

That makes my tummy hurt, Vic. I don't like that.

[James]

It was one of the more scary moments. I'm going to get that. Anyway, the Netherlands mostly carried that picture I sent you of, like, the bad AI sketch of a photo of Quentin.

[Molly]

Okay. I'm sorry. If I ever get murdered and you're holding a rally for my memory, use a real fucking picture of me.

[Vic]

Yeah. This is so.

[Molly]

Really. Okay, they're using a fake picture of a more handsome guy.

[James]

Yeah. The other flag that you said. Yes.

[Molly]

Like, I'm saying, like, use a good picture of me. You know, like. Like a cute picture, but, like, they're using a fake picture of a more handsome guy because this guy was weird looking.

[Vic]

Yeah. The person who is on the. The flag in the BBC article, that's just straight up, not him. It's not. It's not a guy who looks like him. It's not a rendering of him by AI that is, like, old school German

[Molly]

propaganda of, like, an Aryan. Like, an Aryan specimen where, like, this was like a skinny little guy who's half Hispanic.

[James]

Latina, Latino.

[Vic]

Latino, yeah.

[James]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Like it's just disrespectful to his memory to whitewash him and make him more handsome.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

You were not a good enough martyr. We had to find a better looking guy to pretend was you so we can profit politically from your murder.

[James]

What picture of you do we need to use, Molly, in the event?

[Molly]

Oh yeah, I should, I should. I should pre select.

[James]

Exactly. And then you can also select which. Which photo we're going to use and which we're going to put on the banners.

[Molly]

But it's like they don't actually care about this man. Most of the people holding those banners don't know that's not him.

[Vic]

Yeah. 100%.

[James]

It's a very empty performance.

[Molly]

I'm performing outrage over the like the theoretical death of a guy whose politics were similar to mine.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

But defend Netherlands. They also carried what we call the princess flag in the Netherlands.

[Molly]

Princess flag?

[James]

Yeah, the flag of the prince.

[Molly]

Oh, princess.

[James]

Yeah. And it's a, it's a variation on the flag that we have right now, but it was co opted by the Dutch National Socialist Party prior entering World War II. So it's now heavily associated with those groups and that is the flag they choose to carry.

[Molly]

I'm just skeptical of all flags unless I'm 100% sure what I'm looking at. I'm skeptical of a flag because usually a guy that like, I don't know what you're doing. What does that mean?

[Vic]

It is always telling when people are like, oh, this nationalist flag is the flag of our nation is not nationalist enough. Let me, let me find an obscure one from the past. It has only been revived by fascists.

[James]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Like anyone in South Africa carrying something other than the current official South African flag? Because there's a lot of variations and they're all bad.

[James]

Oh well, we're getting to those variations, Molly. Because like the flags flag was not only used by collaborators but they've also added. Because just alluding to like the collaborationists is not enough. They added a VOC logo from the Dutch East India Company onto the flag.

[Vic]

Fuck me.

[James]

Ever.

[Molly]

What?

[Vic]

That's. Honestly hit me. That came from fucking nowhere. God. Just like these people fucking hated people who weren't white as well. Like yo, just sorry. That is incredible.

[Molly]

We are evil.

[James]

Yeah.

[Vic]

Fuck me.

[James]

It's amazing.

[Vic]

Yeah. I can't believe we've opened that. Can it, Worm. Because it's going to be. That's going to happen in Britain. Now, unfortunately, I've put it in the

[James]

chat, like, something like that.

[Molly]

I mean, that's just like, comedically,

[Vic]

it's a logo as well. It looks like a ranch brand. It looks like somebody didn't want their cows to go missing and they did that.

[Molly]

I would stamp that on a horse for sure.

[James]

It probably was probably also on people,

[Vic]

because I was gonna say that's an unfortunate series. What the. Though, Like, I can't believe they did that. Is that a thing on the Dutch. Right. Like, make Dutch East India Company great again.

[Molly]

Nostalgic for the dusty. My loyalty lies with the Dutch East India Company.

[Vic]

Yeah. Such a niche. This is what you get from, like, European ultra nationalism is these incredibly niche racism.

[Molly]

I'm a monarchist for spice trading.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Yeah. This is something they actually do. I've seen it at multiple, like, far right rallies where they're just waving that shit and like, that rocks.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

It's like the poorest dog whistle that any normal human being can also hear. Like. Okay.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

You long back to the days of, like, killing hundreds of thousands of people for the spices that we don't use in our cuisine.

[Vic]

Yeah. Wow. That is so niche.

[Molly]

That's so good. That's so good. I hope those guys get pressed into service on a ship.

[James]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, they might be shipped to Iran soon. Who knows?

[Molly]

Like, enjoy sailing around the world. You love it so much.

[Vic]

Yeah. Going to Bengal by sail because you. You love fucking racism. Getting scurvy to own the libs.

[James]

You know, they will get scurvy because they want to be eating fruit.

[Vic]

Yeah. Because they're exclusively eating what. What the Americans call French fries because of the erasure of Dutch cultural. Brilliant.

[Molly]

That's true. They are.

[James]

Or like, fermented meat or something. Just exclusively.

[Vic]

Yeah. Because return.

[James]

But yeah. Anyway, with the rally in the end, nothing really happened. There were some chants going up and down. I think there were only two arrests for insulting police officers. I think one on either side.

[Molly]

But that's illegal there.

[James]

Yes.

[Molly]

Oh, I can never go.

[James]

You can also just avoid police. That's the thing.

[Vic]

Wow.

[James]

They won't. They won't immediately chase you with a gun here, but I've never had any experience with American cops, so there's no comparison for me.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Also hope that never happens because heard stories of what happens.

[Vic]

Yeah. American cop's not good. Yeah. It's one of. One of the founding principles of this. This here podcast network.

[James]

Well, we have. There is one cop in Utrecht who was allegedly a member of, like, an openly touched Nazi Group, but I think he's since left it.

[Molly]

That happens a lot here.

[Vic]

Yeah. That's not an uncommon occurrence.

[James]

No. What's a cops and clan go hand in hand?

[Molly]

We say it for a reason.

[Vic]

Yeah, well, we can add cops in company bracket. Dutch East India.

[James]

Those were not cops because it was a corporation, James. Yeah, that's enforcers.

[Vic]

You can't be a fascist for the Dutch East India Company because it's something a little bit different.

[Molly]

That's true, that's true. They were not a state.

[Vic]

It's a non state entity. It's like an autonomous. It's autonomous fascism of its own kind of.

[Molly]

Kind of cucked for a fascist to be nostalgic for a company.

[James]

Yeah, yeah. But as long as it's a nationalist company, then it's okay.

[Vic]

This is great. I'm going to revive some like, like, like 18th century pirate shit, you know when like, like the British were like attacking the Dutch East India Company ships. I'm going to bring that back.

[James]

Okay.

[Vic]

Now because fuck these people.

[James]

You have my personal permission to attack Dutch sailing ships. I have that authority. But to get back to Quentin.

[Vic]

Sorry.

[James]

No, there was one other thing that happened because the day after the rally there was an unknown person who threw a smoke bomb inside the aku.

[Vic]

Oh, shit.

[James]

Person was never caught. I'm going to make a wild guess and say he was probably involved with Defend Netherlands or some other similar fascist groups. No one attack who was hurt. It was mostly just an inconvenience. And that is pretty much the story of how the death of a French Nazi involved threats to a community center in the Netherlands.

[Vic]

Wow. Yeah, I think you mentioned that someone called him Francis Charlie Kirk.

[James]

Yeah.

[Vic]

But it's wild how like this one has been so seized upon. Right. By people who, like, as we said, they did not give a shit about this guy when he was alive.

[James]

No, I think rn

[Vic]

national rally would be the English or like National Assembly.

[Molly]

Yeah, I think national rally is how they do it in English.

[Vic]

Okay. Yeah.

[James]

Those guys held like also like on a political level. It was like a national thing that happened where they were memorizing it and they were blaming a French unbowed for whatever happened because one of the people who was arrested for the violence was an aide, I think, to someone from French Ambaut.

[Molly]

That's not great.

[James]

Yeah, that's not great.

[Molly]

I imagine their boss would have preferred that they had not done that.

[James]

Probably. Probably. But it was a huge thing.

[Molly]

And I mean like from, from my end, like, I mean, obviously I don't read A lot of French news, but I subscribe to a lot of Nazi telegram channels and I see his name a lot. Like the active club sort of networks, like, not. It's not always directly the active clubs, sort of these sort of ancillary telegram groups that spin up around them. Yeah, but in that milieu, they're talking about him a lot. They're talking about, like, you know, training in his honor, punching communists in his honor. You know what I mean? Like, they're trying to make this a rallying point to inspire more violence.

[James]

Yeah.

[Molly]

I don't know that if it'll work long term. I've seen many such attempts that do not work long term. But it's been two months and they are still talking about, you know, hurting people in his name.

[James]

I also have my doubts on whether

[Molly]

that will work because they try a lot. They try a lot.

[Vic]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Molly]

I put together a bunch of examples of attempted martyrs that just, like, nobody remembers.

[James]

I can't think of anyone.

[Molly]

Exactly, exactly.

[James]

Beside the one we already talked about, whose wife is now running the foundation.

[Molly]

And for the most part, it's. I mean, at least in America, most of the right wing martyrs are people who died in prison or were killed by the police. We don't have a lot of sort of street deaths like this.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Yeah.

[Vic]

Although, like, I do feel like right wing martyrs killed by the police. Like, if they. Like if the Weaver family were killed by the cops, the members of the Weaver family who were killed by the FBI. Vicki Weave. Yeah. Like, if. If that happened today, I think half of the right would be like, hell, yeah, get him cops. Like. Like the bootleg attendance.

[Molly]

I mean, like, they tried to make. Lavoy Finicum was killed during the Bundy standoff in 2016. Did you remember lavoy finicum? No.

[Vic]

Yeah. No one.

[Molly]

I mean, Ashley Babbitt. Ashley Babbitt should have been their martyr. They moved on.

[Vic]

Yeah. And they've been doing some Ashley Babbitt stuff, like, I think they.

[Molly]

But it didn't work.

[Vic]

Yeah, it still hasn't. They're trying to bury her, I believe, with like, military honors now and get her Air Force pension or something. And then she can sue Capitol Police now. But it hasn't worked. In terms of popular culture. No one cares.

[Molly]

Yeah. I mean, the closest thing we have are when white women are killed by black men or immigrants that sometimes will.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

That flash in the pan lasts a little longer. But even still, like Kate Steinle, Molly Tibbets, like Irina Zarudska, like.

[Vic]

Well, they stuck the landing with Lake and Riley. They had the Lake and Riley Act. Right. They managed to essentially create a system where immigrants are guilty until proven innocent.

[Molly]

Right.

[Vic]

Now. Yeah. They have not spoken about her since. But like the legal version of the legal tendency on the Right. Right. The right legislative movement kind of did with that.

[Molly]

But they are, they're like constantly scrounging around for a martyr and trying to make one happen. Like in 2020, like right after George Floyd, Ken and Henant, that five year old boy that was killed by his neighbor.

[Vic]

Oh, yeah.

[Molly]

And they're like, this is our George Floyd. You never heard about it again.

[Vic]

Yeah, they tried a lot in this. Trump tried a lot in the State of the Union. Right.

[Molly]

And then what was it, two weeks ago he posted that video of a woman being beaten to death.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

It just, it doesn't work like, so the, like the sauce isn't there for them to create martyrs, but they love to try.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

But in order to have a martyr that that person needs to have had value in their eyes in the first place. And I think that's what missing.

[Debbie Brown]

Right.

[Molly]

Because they don't care.

[Vic]

Yeah. Well, they posthumously tried to kind of stack it on old Quint in here, but.

[James]

Yeah, but I think that this person needs to have a reason.

[Molly]

They needed to have really died for an actual cause.

[James]

Died for an actual cause, but also someone who was like broadly known and looked up to.

[Molly]

Well, not necessarily. I mean, you don't have to be somebody before your death to be an important martyr. I mean, Emmett Till was not a civil rights activist. He was a little boy.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Fair.

[Vic]

I think it's worked historically more on the left because it is people who are. It tends to be people who are victimized for just for being themselves.

[Molly]

They're blameless.

[Vic]

Yeah. People who are just existing in the world.

[Molly]

Right. It's like if you got into a fight at a Nazi rally. Like, I'm not going to blame the victim. But it's not a, it's not a blameless death.

[James]

No. Like, more like Renee Goot, I think was her name, where she was just looking out for her neighbors but then was murdered.

[Molly]

You have to have been a good person in the first place.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Maybe that's where the right goes wrong.

[Molly]

That's where it really goes wrong.

[Vic]

That's the root cause. Yes. Yeah.

[Molly]

The only ones I can think of that really stick are older and maybe that is like you're saying James, because it was like a lower information environment, but they still do. Martyr's Day for Robert Matthews and that was 40 years ago.

[Vic]

Yeah. Like, it was easier. Right. Like, for them to do it back then.

[Molly]

And like, Matthews got sort of enshrined into this. This martyrs pantheon at a very important time in the movement. I just don't know that his death would be that important if it happened today.

[Vic]

Yeah. I think a lot about the Vicki Weaver thing. Cause we had Bill Gore, who was a sheriff in San Diego, had been an FBI agent who was part of the operation at Ruby Ridge. It was very interesting, San Diego, because initially, when Gore became sheriff, you had all these people on the right, like, specifically posting on. The sheriff's department lost a lawsuit for deleting comments on its Facebook page regarding this. They can't delete comments. Right. Like, they're a public agency.

[Molly]

Right.

[Vic]

Then 2020 happened, and that same tendency, those same groups, not the individual who bought the suit, but, like, those folks were showing up with their blue Lives Matter flags, but then, like, also struggling to line that up with, like, oh, we should bring guns. Oh, but that would be illegal in California. Oh, but we have a right under the Second Amendment. Well, who would be the person who enforced the law that you think contravenes the Second Amendment? It's the cops. Right. And you're also here to.

[Molly]

They're so stuck. They're so stuck.

[Vic]

Yeah. They just kind of back themselves into a corner there where, like, they were, in a way more ideologically consistent back in the day, at least. Like, they're, like, loving the cops thing, that they made part of their identity largely in the George Floyd moment. Right. And the writing has really fucked them when it comes to people who get killed by the cops.

[James]

Yeah.

[Molly]

So hopefully this one fades away like all their other martyrs.

[James]

Yeah.

[Vic]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know where his family are at either. Like, his family may not have been bigots.

[Molly]

Right. Like, have they come out and tried to capitalize on this? Like, does he have a crying mother on the news talking about evil antifa.

[James]

They don't have a crying mother on the news. I do know they have a lawyer, and I think there is some form of legal action being taken.

[Molly]

And that makes sense because, like, there were people arrested who were responsible for the death.

[Vic]

Like, somebody hit him in the head

[Molly]

to be a legal process to move forward.

[James]

Yeah.

[Molly]

But I mean, like, there's not, like, a member of his family out there doing propaganda against, like, anti fascists.

[James]

Not. Not that I'm aware of, but they were very quiet insofar as I could. Could see.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Like, I've written this over the space of, like, two months. So I may have missed something somewhere.

[Molly]

Sure.

[James]

But they were pretty quiet on his activist activities, so I'm not sure how. I'm not sure if it's something they didn't know or if it was something that maybe they didn't know.

[Molly]

How bad it was.

[James]

How bad it was. It could also have been kept quiet in order to.

[Vic]

Like they're doing a lawsuit.

[James]

Yeah.

[Molly]

Right. They. They should say less if they're pursuing litigation. That makes perfect sense. So it seems like most of the propaganda around his death is being produced by the groups he was in. Right. You said he was in an active club. I'm mostly seeing this from active clubs, so it makes sense that they would be doing that.

[Vic]

Yeah. It's just if they're not, like, if it happens that at least someone in his family. You said, like a migrant to France themselves. It would really fucking suck to know, first of all, to find out that this kid in your family had these reprehensible views and then to see their face everywhere.

[Molly]

Well, luckily, it's not his face.

[Vic]

Yeah, that's true.

[Ad Council Announcer]

That's true.

[Vic]

Yeah. See someone else's face in his name.

[James]

It's just fake resemblance.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

So, yeah. Before we close it out, though, I do want to plug something because I do know when the aku, they shut down, they had a concert, and the entire venue was closed the day of the vigil. So they did miss a lot of income. And I also know, personally know a few people who spend quite some money on just barricading the door, getting iron grates for the windows, or steel grates.

[Molly]

That's dark.

[James]

Yes.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

So there is a donate link for the AKU because it's also entirely volunteer run. Like, there's no paid employees there. Everyone's just doing that in their spare time.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

So if there are people who have some money to spare and they think that's a worthy cause, then in the show notes, you can find the donate link to support the local community center.

[Vic]

Yeah. And it'd be nice if people did that.

[Molly]

That's beautiful.

[James]

Yeah. It was very heartwarming to see because I think at the demonstration itself, I think that the Nazis were outnumbered, like three to one, maybe more.

[Molly]

Usually are.

[James]

Usually are. But it's still very heartwarming to see such a quick and rapid response of people just being like, hey, we don't want them here. Go back to your backyard. Hold the vigil there. And it was a thing that happens. But after we've spoken so much about weird Nazis. Molly, I've been told you do. Also something with weird little Nazis.

[Molly]

Oh, I love a weird little guy. I talk about them everywhere every week on my show. We're little guys.

[James]

Okay.

[Molly]

You can find it anywhere. You get your podcasts.

[James]

Great.

[Molly]

And now I'm. I'm actually so curious about these weird little girls. I might have to check this out.

[James]

Okay.

[Vic]

It's new fascination unlocked.

[James]

I'll share the the some of the links with you. Then you can have a starting point. Although I think you're a much better researcher this than I am, so.

[Molly]

Although unfortunately it's all going to be in French. That's a nightmare.

[James]

Just auto translate. That's true, because I also don't speak French and also translate safely.

[Vic]

Just made a powerful enemy. Oh, the francophone world.

[Molly]

They're so uptight about their silly little language. Get bent.

[Vic]

I love to speak French. French speaking people. Please don't.

[James]

Next time I read French articles, James, I'll send the link to you and ask you to translate them for me.

[Vic]

Yeah, I'm really worried that I'm going to have to translate some heinous shit. Now

[James]

here's like the French version of Mein Kampf. Could you please translate it for me?

[Molly]

I do have some Holocaust denial text I need translated, James.

[Vic]

Perfect. Yeah, just make sure I'm not in France when I receive them and be a crime.

[Molly]

True.

[James]

You might have visa problems as well.

[Molly]

Yeah, I'm not going.

[James]

Okay.

[Vic]

Yeah, I'm no longer a EU citizen, so I now have to get visas for places.

[James]

Too bad. And you have to be not be declared Persona non grata.

[Vic]

Yeah.

[James]

Okay then. Yeah, I think we can wrap this up. Thank you guys for being here and making it a lovely time. Talking about Nazis.

[Molly]

Yes. Thank you for introducing me to some terrible new concepts. I'm very excited.

[James]

You're welcome.

[Molly]

It Could Happen. Here is a production of Cool Zone Music Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia. Com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can now find sources for. It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.