The Campaign to Bust Chicago’s Only Bookstore Union

Summary

Podcast Summary: “The Campaign to Bust Chicago’s Only Bookstore Union”

It Could Happen Here – Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts
Episode Release Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Mia Wong
Guests: EZ and Finley (booksellers and union members at Seminary Co-op Bookstores, Chicago)

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Overview

This episode dives into the ongoing struggle of the unionized booksellers at Chicago’s Seminary Co-op – a store whose name belies its current structure and whose progressive veneer contrasts with persistent, active union-busting tactics. Returning guests (EZ and Finley) lay bare a year of regressive bargaining, management obstruction, organizational chaos, and literal workplace dangers, while sharing insights into labor organizing and solidarity in one of the nation’s iconic bookstores.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What the Seminary Co-op Actually Is

• Seminary Co-op operates two stores in Hyde Park (Seminary Co-op, 57th Street Books).
• Once a true cooperative for theology students, it’s now a “not for profit” bookstore that is not a 501(c)(3), leading to financial and operational opacity.
  • EZ: “[Seminary Co-op is] a misnomer on two out of three counts. It's not a seminary anymore. It's not a co-op anymore. It is still a bookstore, although it is a not for profit bookstore, which is a mysterious category of business...” ([03:59])
• The store reorganized in 2019, dropping its cooperative status and shares; became “not for profit” but without clear nonprofit legal standing.

2. The Unionization Effort: Initial Hope and Immediate Obstacles

• Organized with the IWW in 2024, aiming for better wages and humane conditions.
• Initial management response was superficially supportive (“we recognize your union”) but shifted to endless stalling and attrition.
  • Finley: “They have sat on their hands ever since.” ([03:12])
• Management refuses to hire new full or part-time staff, instead relying heavily on “seasonal” workers to avoid bolstering union numbers and influence.

3. Financial Opacity and Wage Suppression

• Store’s financial condition is kept deliberately murky; management justifies low wages ($16.90/hour in Chicago, often with advanced degrees) citing “not for profit” status.
  • EZ: “Store financials have been so obscured... the rhetoric that justifies the pack that I’m paid $16.90 an hour, and I have a master’s of divinity...” ([07:52])
• Executive Director position pays $160,000/year—a sum only discovered after a formal info request that remains partly unmet ([10:09], [10:31]).
• Regular expenditures on “union-busting” lawyers and marginal tech replace investments in staff or infrastructure.

4. Managerial Attrition & Union-Busting Tactics

• Attrition as union-busting: workforce dropped from 25 (2024) to 11 (2025); management refuses replacements ([12:02]).
• Continuous reclassification of positions and “seasonal” jobs as a loophole to exclude workers from union eligibility ([12:41]).
• Bargaining stymied by regressive offers—shrinking contract terms, removal of hard-won gains (“best and final” offer is actually worse; [31:11]).
  • Finley: “Regressive bargaining is a dirty negotiation tactic where one side… unilaterally decides to change a term… and axing it.” ([31:23])
• Filing of unfair labor practices met with bureaucratic delays and NLRB dysfunction (no quorum post-GOP shutdown, indefinite delays; [33:31]).

5. Gaslighting, Chaos, and Management’s Responsibility Carousel

• Management blames the board; board claims no operational oversight; yet the board appoints the director, recommends the union-busting lawyer, and makes budget decisions ([21:29]).
• Finley: “There’s this responsibility carousel… [where] we can’t tell how involved the board is… we have asked repeatedly that they be involved in bargaining… and they have repeatedly refused.” ([21:31])
• Email and paperwork trails show shifting policies, denial of previous agreements, and intentional confusion to slow progress.

6. Direct Action and Community Visibility

• Union has staged several pickets and work stoppages—management disturbed but pretends to public that all is fine ([22:22], [34:13]).
  • EZ: “I remember our first work stop… management was very cool... the second time… we did it for an hour... it’s empowering…” ([34:13])
• Key actions scheduled for maximum impact—e.g. picketing first day of classes, engaging students as allies (“a lot of eat the rich from zillennials!” [36:28])
• Solidarity from other unions (Museum of Science & Industry, UChicago grad students) is vital for visibility and morale ([44:03], [47:11]).

7. Absurd Working Conditions: Mold, Dust, and Health Risks

• Discussion of active mold and severe dust problems at both store locations; lack of remediation has made staff ill.
  • EZ: “I can’t really breathe when I go into work. And I also don’t have health insurance. Right.” ([54:14])
• Management’s refusal to address health hazards merges literal physical endangerment with bureaucratic gaslighting ([56:56], [57:17]).
• EZ and Finley’s growing normalization of such hazards as a sign of deep, abusive workplace dysfunction.
  • Finley: “That doesn’t even land on our radar anymore because we’ve been just, like, banging our head against walls for a year.” ([58:41])

8. The Psychological Toll and the Abusive Partner Analogy

• Parallels drawn between workplace power imbalance, information control, and abusive relationships—leading to normalization of unacceptable conditions ([58:54]).
• Isolation, administrative stonewalling, and atomization are active tactics to sap morale and stymie collective action.

9. Why Stay? Why Keep Fighting?

• Despite all, workers persist because of personal connection to each other, the store, and the community ([62:01]).
  • EZ: “We're doing this because we love the stores... When you love something… you gotta be brave enough to wrestle with it... our unionizing is the right thing.” ([62:01])
• Hope in solidarity—staff, community, and aligned unions.
• The fight is ongoing, with prospect of victory building for other area bookshops and labor movements.

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Action Items & How to Support the Union

• Sign the change.org petition: Demands removal of the union-busting lawyer and financial transparency ([64:02]).
• Follow on Instagram: @uncoopbooksellersunion, where updates and specific action items (emailing board/management, mold complaints, etc.) are posted ([64:10]).
• Visit and support: Go to the stores, talk to union booksellers, voice support, and raise issues with management.
• Wear a mask: for health safety in the store due to mold ([63:42])
• Direct outreach: Email board members, especially about the mold problem and push for fair contract and full financial disclosure.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On management’s wage excuse:
  “...the not for profit bookstore whose mission is bookselling...the rhetoric that really justifies the pay...$16.90 an hour, and I have a master's of divinity from the seminary of the seminary co op.” – EZ ([07:52])

• On the attrition tactic:
  “They are wearing down the number of people that they have to deal with and making the people who are left so tired and so frustrated and so much less capable of fighting them.” – Finley ([11:46])

• On regressive bargaining:
  “It is taking something that has been tentatively agreed upon and, like, in good faith...and axing it.” – Finley ([31:23])

• On the abusive partner analogy:
  “If a boyfriend does it to you, it's a red flag. But when your boss does it... it's the cost of business.” – EZ ([33:53])

• On mold, dust, and health:
  “I can't really breathe when I go into work. And I also don't have health insurance.” – EZ ([54:14])

• On why workers persist:
  “It's the people, and I think that's for a lot of folks who have stayed at the bookstore...it has been other booksellers, the folks that we've gotten to know through the community who do make a difference, at least for me, and whether or not I stay.” – EZ ([54:59])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:16-04:22 – What the Seminary Co-op actually is; misleading name and business model.
• 06:34-08:33 – Transition from cooperative to dysfunctional nonprofit; issues with finances and donations.
• 10:09-11:46 – Executive compensation and misallocation of resources while union wages stagnate.
• 11:46-14:12 – Deliberate attrition, classification of seasonal/scab labor, and refusal to hire replacement staff.
• 21:29-22:06 – Management/Board responsibility “carousel” and opacity in negotiations.
• 31:11-34:13 – Management’s regressive bargaining and legal obstruction; unfair labor practices.
• 34:13-37:49 – Direct actions (work stoppages, pickets), their impact, and increased public support.
• 54:14-58:51 – Mold, health hazards, and normalizing workplace danger as an artifact of abuse.
• 61:29-63:23 – Why the fight continues, rooted in care for the store and community.

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Final Thoughts

The episode blends the personal and political, interweaving everyday workplace indignities with larger truths about exploitation, solidarity, and the ongoing fight for dignity. Seminary Co-op workers refuse resignation to misery, organizing as an act of love for their bookstore, their own health, and the community.
If you’re in Chicago—or even just online—you can support their struggle right now (be sure to check the petition and IG in the episode description).

Transcript

[EZ]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Finley]

I turned off news altogether.

[Mia Wong]

I hate to say it, but I.

[EZ]

Don'T trust much of anything.

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It's the rage bait.

[Finley]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[EZ]

We got clear facts.

[Mia Wong]

Maybe we can calm down a little.

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[EZ]

Let's meet at the Facts.

[Mia Wong]

Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

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[Mia Wong]

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[Cool Zone Media Announcer]

Cool Zone Media.

[Mia Wong]

Welcome to Ick. It Happened Here, a podcast reunion. Good. And not everything that is called co op is good. Sometimes they're not actually really co ops. I am your host, Mia Wong, and today we are joined by the people struggling under the tyrannical fist of a co op, a thing that shouldn't be possible. And yet somehow.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

So we are talking today with EZ and Finley, who are booksellers at the seminary co op in Chicago. And yeah, we are welcoming the union back to the show. And dear God, what a disaster.

[EZ]

What a year it has been.

[Finley]

Well, it's really great to be back. I wish we were back with slightly better news or more movement since we were last here, certainly.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah.

[Finley]

Because when we last spoke, we had just sort of theatrically announced to our management that we were an organized shop with the iww. And we organized were going to be bargaining with them for better wages and humane working conditions for us all. And they were like, yeah, you're a union. We so recognize that. And then they have sat on their hands ever since.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. So let's roll back all the way to the beginning and explain a little bit about what the seminary co op is for people who weren't here. How many years ago was that?

[Finley]

Now?

[EZ]

That must have been last year.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah, yeah, it was a while ago. I don't know.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Finley]

So the seminary co op is a set of two bookstores in Hyde Park. The seminary co op bookstore, which is a misnomer on two out of three counts. It's not a seminary anymore. It's not a co op anymore. It is still a bookstore, although it is a not for profit bookstore, which is a mysterious category of business that doesn't exist anywhere else.

[Ad]

Baffling.

[EZ]

Yeah. Briefly, just to interject, I do think when I would announce events and sort of give this exact breakdown for audiences, like I said, not for profit bookstore, whose mission is book selling. Right. And when I was hired, like about three months before we announced we were unionizing, the way it was put to me was other not for profit bookstores, they do a lot with like family literacy or like specifically around women's issues. But that was just like, acknowledgement of the reality that bookstores don't make a whole lot of money. And what we are providing is a not for profit bookstore is just the browsing experience. We kept books on shelves for too long. It seemed like a really romantic idea of bookselling that didn't have a whole lot of legs underneath it, so to speak. So it is nonsense, I would say, but that's me just be a library.

[Mia Wong]

We have this, it's called libraries, say really big Bookstore.

[EZ]

Just. I don't know, it was vague. Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Baffling. Baffling.

[Finley]

Yes.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. And then I guess the second part of it is, like, when they say it's a co op, what does that mean?

[Finley]

It means truly and as can speak to this more that it was founded by Chicago Theological Seminary students and there was a reason for that.

[EZ]

Yeah. Like they did want to buy horse books at the prices that retailers got them wholesale. And so the thought was, I forget their names, but we have the pictures of them. It was like a Kavanaugh or something. But these two Guys just, you know, if you were a student at Chicago Theological Seminary or even like a student at one of the other divinity seminaries nearby, you just, you put an amount of money and you were part of like, you got your course book cheaper, you know, and under like a specific manager who came like a couple decades after that, like, then it really became like, this is the neighborhood bookstore. This is part of like, as they say, like the intellectual and sort of cultural life of the university. But yeah, at one point it was a cooperative because like you, you were a member and you got your course books cheaper because you, you know, had a certain amount of shares in the books. But yeah, it was a think smarter, not harder kind of scheme.

[Finley]

And then when they dissolved the like, ownership shares and stopped being a co OP, that was 2019 when they organized as this not for profit. It's not a 501C3. They don't have nonprofit status. It's this slightly different thing. And so one of the one things that has happened in the past year is we had an interim director who got us like basically a nonprofit sponsor who lends its 501c3 status to other organizations and allows you to take tax deductible donations. But like up to that point, we couldn't do that because we were not a legitimate nonprofit. We were this other thing.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

So since 2019 it's been that. And then since 2024 it's been that. Plus Chicago's standalone unionized bookstore. For now. We're hoping that others follow in July.

[EZ]

They will.

[Finley]

Yes.

[Mia Wong]

I feel like it is not a great sign of your business being well run when you are, you are doing a thing that like rookie activist campaigns do when they're like, oh shit, we got a bunch of money, we need to borrow someone else's 501C3 status. Like, yeah, great, great job management, like, incredible stuff.

[EZ]

And like for me, part of what's been so like just mind boggling is like the not for profit bookstore whose mission is bookselling, does sort of give this, you know, if we're like a 501C3 who often doesn't, they don't turn a profit or they do, they reinvest it back into the operations they're doing, but like part of. And we can talk more about this as we get into like the bargaining. But like store financials have been so obscured. And I hate from like truly, truly hate from a linguistic standpoint, just sort of the subtle like, oh, we must not be doing well, because to that feels like the rhetoric that really justifies the pack that I'm paid 1690 an hour, and I have a master's of divinity from the seminary of the seminary co op.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah, well, and I think it's also worth noting that, like, even from the perspective of capital, like, all of the giant tech companies didn't make money for, like, decades, and all those motherfuckers were walking off with, like, $100 million payouts, you know? Like, they only ever started making money when they started, like, reeling in a bunch of government contracts for, like, web services and, like, defense contracts and shit. And it's like, I don't know, like, this is. This is, I guess, on topic, but it's just something that makes you really mad where people talk about, like, running the government, like, a business. And then, like, you know, you get, like, the post office where it's like, oh, the post office doesn't run a profit. It's like, do you know it doesn't run a fucking profit. Uber literally has never brought a profit, ever. Not once. Not once.

[Finley]

Right?

[Mia Wong]

Like, it's like, no, like. Like, I'm sorry. Welcome. Welcome to. Welcome. Welcome to fucking 2025 capitalism. Like, companies don't make profits. They either get contacts from the government, or their entire existence is either conning some venture capitalist dipshits out of all of their money. Or it's like, Peter Thiel has decided that you're like, surveillance camera company is ideologically important to him taking over the world. So he's going to give you $1 billion, and it's like, oh, no, I'm sorry. Like, her financials aren't good enough for you to pay you. It's like, motherfucker. Like, have you seen the rest of capitalism, like, eat shit, pay your workers?

[EZ]

Like, yeah.

[Finley]

Oh, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

God damn it.

[Finley]

Well, we keep using that one meme over and over that is like, we're trying to balance the budget.

[EZ]

It's the drill. The candles drill.

[Finley]

Thank you.

[Mia Wong]

Oh, the candles.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Finley]

Because our management is so infuriating. And they also, in the years since we've been bargaining, had an interim director and spent most of his tenure searching for an executive director to take over. That person is being paid $160,000 a year, to our knowledge.

[EZ]

Jesus Christ.

[Finley]

And that's the offer that we know of. We have yet to get his contract, even though we did make a formal information request for it. Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Which is fucked. And it's also like, yeah. Like, every time these companies are like, oh, we don't have money. And it's like, okay, I I can find like an unbelievable amount of money that you have given to someone to like, to give a random non specific example that has nothing to do with any company that is in any way related to this show, alive or dead. Buy a Bored ape Yacht Club. NFT.

[EZ]

Like, this is like they spent $300 on Google Home speakers for 57th street books. And I'm like, wow, my having that $300 would change my life. But also like you're paying that union busting lawyer thousands of dollars that you could be paying your workers. Yep. But that's, that's capitalism.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. They have enough money to make your lives miserable, but they apparently never have enough money to, you know, like, make your lives not miserable because they have to spend that money on making your lives miserable.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

And it's so intentional because making us miserable means that they are wearing down the number of people that they have to deal with and making the people who are left so tired and so frustrated and so much less capable of fighting them.

[EZ]

Yeah. And that feels like just, you know, Finn's leaving. We've also had a number of folks, like our bargaining unit, like last time y' all spoke last year was like 25 people. Now we're down to 11. And they've refused to hire anybody part time or full time. Yeah, of course. But they've been giving seasonal workers sort of like extra hours and that is, someone's got to start counting. They have, like, if unless they work for 90 days, they don't have to. And because they're seasonal, you know, yada, yada, they don't really join our union is kind of what. I understand why they are not considered eligible. But it's like the booksellers are the heart of the store.

[Finley]

The classification of seasonal workers, and particularly of event runners has been a point of contention throughout negotiations this whole time. Because obviously from our perspective, we want anyone who's working in the store in any capacity to be involved in the union. We want them to not have this random scab force that they can deploy at will.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

And that has always been the point that gets revisited over and over again. Just when we think we've gotten them locked into being union members, they'll come back with their latest counter. That's like, actually, I think because of X, Y and Z, that we just changed. They're no longer eligible to join your union. But they did just hire, I think, think three people that they were training at 57th street last week. But they've made no formal announcement to anyone that these people have been hired.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

I only know that they were like in the stores because one of them came to the co op by mistake instead of 57th street and was like, oh, I'm one of the new hires.

[Mia Wong]

Oh.

[Finley]

And so it's unclear if those are the seasonal workers or if those are new hires.

[EZ]

Those are, I'll say the most recent member, like part time, full time member of our staff who's not me. None of us knew she was hired and she just came up, took a book right off my cart and I was like, what? But she. But those, those were event. Those were the seasonal workers at the store the other day. Like I worked one of the Chicago humanities events with them and it is like, yeah. Then they just changed the. The qualification of who can be in the union.

[Finley]

Yeah, it's been very intentional and it's been just like over and over. They revisit and reclassify and whittle us down.

[EZ]

Yeah, we've done I think too since you last spoke, like a couple of work stoppages and then picketed outside of our store as well. But that I don't know in terms of like sort of regressive bargaining through attrition that we're seeing and that like they refuse to hire other people even though they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot. But just like our direct action has I think worked against what they're thinking, which is that we're tired and that we're not going to fight back and that we are overwhelmed and we don't know what we're doing. But there are a lot of folks who do have experience with these sort of direct actions, like a work stoppage. I think it's great that we're wobblies, but also like I do kind of like on the work stoppage how flustered and not like upset, but just how flustered and yeah, just awkward management feels. It's empowering for. Yeah, but it's very much on purpose.

[Finley]

Well, and I think that's one of the benefits to just like a campaign in the broad sense of continuing direct actions during negotiations is it is that chance to connect with your co workers and re solidify that you're fighting for something intentional in the face of the fact that you will probably start being scheduled more sparsely. You will have fewer opportunities during the workday to talk to people and like that's just stuff that's going to happen while negotiations go on. But like making sure that you stay in touch with your union as best you can and like show up for all the direct things that you can helps you internally combat that, which is really helpful.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

I mean, like, you know, like, that's something we ran into organizing here, was we spent like, God, I think it was two years bargaining for our contract. And they didn't have the capacity to literally force half the workforce to quit.

[Finley]

But, like, oh, don't worry, they don't have the capacity to lose this many people. Things are falling apart, and they are fueling how few people they have.

[Mia Wong]

Yep. This whole thing is. It's just like a really, really common managerial tactic.

[Finley]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Which is just like, we're going to make everything unlivable and try to get as many people as we can to quit and then just make everyone else's lives a living hell, which is like, this is. I think I've said this before, but it's. It's like the extent to which the strategy is just the. The deliberate infliction of terror.

[Finley]

Yeah, well, and the strategy is just tank your business, which seems incredibly counterintuitive from their perspective.

[EZ]

And like, I. There have been events where, like, it's been a book about, like, Karl Marx, labor organizing, whether it's a history or, like a sociology book. And folks are like, I waited to buy this book here because it's the union bookstore. And there is a way that us being a union bookstore could look, given that folks on our board are really progressive people like Adam Getachu, like State Senator Robert Peters, who's running on a pretty pro labor background. Us being unionized could be we are already a tourist bookstore. Like, folks come from everywhere and are like, this is such a famous bookstore. But, like, it does baffle me. It does make sense that it's a common tactic. But also, there's so much that could work in their favor if they were not just, like, so committed to busting this union.

[Mia Wong]

Wait, hold on. Sidebar. AO Gritch. She was my professor.

[EZ]

Yeah, I talked to her today.

[Mia Wong]

Wait, she's just part of the management team now? No, no, no.

[EZ]

There's. Okay, so this is part of.

[Mia Wong]

Or is this like a different thing? Okay, sorry, sorry. This is.

[EZ]

Okay. No, no, no. This is. This is where, like, us being a not for profit bookstore, but not actually, like, having any legal standing as a not for profit gets a little confusing. And like. Finn, you can probably speak more to how this has come up in the bargaining meeting, but when we. I don't know if this was around before the cooperative was dissolved and shares were basically, like, worthless at that point, but there is a board of directors one of whom like is very, very famous and at least among the folks I know for effectively union busting employees at experimental station on 61st and Blackstone when they try to unionize.

[Finley]

Right.

[EZ]

Oh, Jesus. And also there are so many like Hyde park progressives like rjp, like Adam Gettchew, Eve Ewing as well. And these are people I really respect. But like, because there's like this four cabinet, I think of folks who are. Have been in and out of bargaining meetings when we've had employees at other labor unions who do have a connection to like, for example, Robert Peters.

[Finley]

It does.

[EZ]

It's very clear that like this governing board, which does govern, they have terms. But we're also a retail outfit, you know, usually like a not for profit. The board of a not for profit would be helping with like an annual fundraising campaign. It's unclear entirely what the board does in a retail outfit other than, at least in my experience, like giving advice, writing emails to try to bust this union. You know, before we unionized, albeit I had a very short tenure before we had unionized, none of these people, none of their names matter to me. But because, like, there's so much confusion about is management going to be representing folks in the bargaining meeting or is it going to be a board member representative and just who is accountable to disclose what financial information and when or just any information and when, like, yeah, Adam. Adam Getachu is not one of our. One of our bosses. But like, there is just a lot of confusion that I feel about what the board is responsible for in bargaining and with the man and what management feels they're responsible for.

[Finley]

And I can clear up a little bit of that because what we were told when we first unionized and when the management team was kind of shifting and reorganizing itself around the board was the board is there primarily to advise and supervise and hire the executive director for the stores. And so there is a financial contribution. Like, they're all significant donors. That's part of the way that they secure their seats is making a large donation to the stores. But then, at least according to them, from that point forward, they have no managerial oversight over the operations of the store whatsoever. It is not their responsibility. They don't make any decisions about the budget. They don't get involved, they don't want to be involved. And they were embarrassed by having this attitude when previous management went off the rails and nearly drove the store into the ground by buying stock on credit cards. What. But then it's a whole thing that we do not have. Sorry, but that's.

[EZ]

This is bonkers.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[EZ]

Oh, yeah.

[Finley]

That is to say that somehow that experience did not act as a wake up call for this board of directors. And they said, what we will do is hire the next white man we can find and take our hands back off the wheel.

[Mia Wong]

Jesus Christ. Is this an institution that people like? It would be helpful to put pressure.

[EZ]

On or that's what it's hard to.

[Finley]

Say because there's this, and I think I talked about it the last time we were on the podcast, but there's this responsibility carousel between management who will in a bargaining session. Because the other thing is because we can't tell how involved the board is, because they tell us that they're not involved at all. And then they make decisions and we hear about the decisions that they're making. We have asked repeatedly that they be involved in bargaining and that they send someone to represent them or they like, participate and have an opinion on the way that the stores are run. And they have repeatedly refused those invitations, requests, demands, et cetera.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

It seems their involvement has been to recommend that our management hire Jenny Goltz to be their lawyer. And that is about as much as they want to do.

[Mia Wong]

Jesus Christ.

[EZ]

Like, two things too. Finn. I think there was supposed to be a board member present at the next bargaining meeting, but because our meeting was contingent on having the full financial information that we requested literally a month ago, and when we requested that information the next day, a board member, the president of the board, said, okay, we'll get this to you. We got it. I think you might know more about the timing of this fifth, like at the last possible minute.

[Finley]

We got it the day before the meeting and it was half of what we asked for. Mm.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

And then when we said this is not what we requested and we cannot meet because we said we couldn't meet without this full information, they were like, we're disappointed that you can't do that. And we were like, yeah, shocking.

[EZ]

Yeah.

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[Finley]

I turned off news altogether.

[Mia Wong]

I hate to say it, but I.

[EZ]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[Ad]

It's the rage bait.

[Finley]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Bowen Yang]

We got clear facts.

[Mia Wong]

Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Ad]

NBC News brings you clear reporting.

[EZ]

Let's meet at the Facts.

[Mia Wong]

Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Matt Rogers]

Honestly, Honestly, Honestly.

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[Bowen Yang]

Sponsored by Gilead this is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And guess what? I'm Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And guess what?

[Bowen Yang]

What?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, I'm stressed. Why? I got invited to a Friendsgiving and now there's the big question. What to bring.

[Bowen Yang]

One thing's for sure, nobody makes a better cocktail than you. Just bring a bottle of Casamigos.

[Matt Rogers]

Casamigos.

[Finley]

Duh.

[Bowen Yang]

And nothing brings me like a batch of Casamigos Margs.

[Matt Rogers]

A Casamigos margarita really is the perfect cocktail.

[Bowen Yang]

Plus, Casamigos goes with everything.

[Matt Rogers]

Turkey, stuffing, Mac and cheese.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, I was thinking more like cranberry juice or gingerbrew, but that works too well.

[Matt Rogers]

Remember the iconic rule of culture number 743 anything goes with my Casamigos. Plus, the most popular person at the party is always the bartender or the.

[Bowen Yang]

Person who brings Casamigos to the party.

[Matt Rogers]

Friendsgiving is officially looking up now.

[Finley]

See?

[Bowen Yang]

No need to stress over what to bring with. There's Casamigos.

[Matt Rogers]

Now the only question left is what to wear if only Casamigos made clothes.

[Bowen Yang]

There's an idea.

[Matt Rogers]

Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila. 40% alcohol by volume.

[Mia Wong]

We are back. Let's get more formally into, like, what the bargaining process has looked like. Like, it sounds like it's been extremely chaotic. They've been not turning over information. It's deeply unclear who's making decisions, which all seem. And I can say this is my professional opinion, not good. This is a technical analysis.

[EZ]

Life assessment. Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

This is why they pay me the mediocre bucks.

[EZ]

Wow.

[Finley]

I think you were so well informed. Yes.

[EZ]

Being journalistic insight. Yeah.

[Finley]

So the way that we set it up on our end when we entered into negotiations was we had a core team of three people who were going to be our core bargaining unit, who would attend every meeting. And then we had a small team of, like, three more people, including myself, that were, like, alternates in case something got scheduled on that day that one of the core team couldn't be there. And we made sure that we would always schedule one person who was not negotiating to be at the meeting and take notes so that, like, none of the people who were negotiating had to do that at the same time. And when we first started negotiating, the management team was sending Dan Meyer, the interim director, and Naeen Kano, who's our deputy director, who is basically the, like, one person on the management team who is not. She's not supposed to be a direct supervisor. She has not actually let go of the people that she was supervising, but she's, like, in that middle space between, like, supervising management and, like, director management. But she has since stepped down from negotiations because of the way that she's been involved in the rest of SOAR operations. She was like, I can't come to the table anymore. And so the latest meeting that has been rescheduled is going to be with Kevin Bendel, who's the new executive director. And then one other name that I forget who is either a board member as. As. Thanks.

[EZ]

Or I'm not sure who else she.

[Finley]

Would be, but it is.

[EZ]

It is a board member, I find. I think it is Tierra Goldstein is her name. Tira Goldstone? Yeah.

[Finley]

Yeah. Every so often in negotiating sessions, Dan or Naive would make some reference to, like, a financial decision that we were trying to bargain about being, like, not their choice and being something that would be up to the board. And we'd be like, so take it to the board. And they would be like, okay. And then we would never hear anything about it ever again.

[Mia Wong]

Incredible, incredible work. Seems like a great tactic to never address anything. You're supposed to be addressing.

[Finley]

And so the way that we were negotiating, we were trying to come to terms on things that didn't affect the finances of the store first so that we could land some easy wins and like, feel like we were making progress and then address the stuff that we expected to be thornier later. But then what that ended up being, as meetings went on and on, was them asking us constantly, like, but what is it that you guys really are like, prioritizing? Like, what is the thing that matters the most to you that like, you have the least give on? And we're like, it's wages. You know, it's wages. It's been wages this whole time. And they're like, but like, what if we were like asking you to give up all your benefits to get wages that you want? And we were like, okay, that's not how negotiating works. And then in an email that labeled it their best and final offer, which is language that they have yet to take back, they sent us a version of the contract bargaining agreement that we a. Let me just back up for a second. When we first started negotiating, they asked us to draft the entire first draft of the collective bargaining agreement ourselves. What? Which is incredibly nonstandard. And we were like, that's fine because that gives us a leg up in terms of like stating the initial terms. I guess we'll do it. But like, yeah, incredibly nonstandard. Super stupid. Not a thing that we should have had to do.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah, I've never heard of that before.

[Finley]

But so when we drafted it, we drafted a three year term collective bargaining agreement with a bunch of stuff about procedure and wages and benefits that we wanted done. And so zooming back forward to that vested final offer, suddenly the draft that they've sent us back of the collective bargaining agreement is a two year term. And up to this point, all of the offers that had gotten anything close to our ask on wages were in year three and everything in year one and two was still like 25 cents, 50 cent increases. And so suddenly year three, which was always the only year that made any improvements for us, is gone. And you did not improve any other parts of the contract to make up for that unilateral decision.

[Mia Wong]

So that's just regressive bargaining.

[Finley]

Yeah, it is, it is.

[Mia Wong]

Which by the way. Okay, do you want to explain to our dear listeners what regressive bargaining is and why you're not allowed to do it?

[Finley]

Yeah. Regressive bargaining is a dirty negotiation tactic where one side, without making any sort of give and take concessions, like they should, to balance a big move, just unilaterally decides to change a term, especially a large term like wages, contract, term, et cetera. And so it is taking something that has been tentatively agreed upon and, like, in good faith taken as a part of the contract that will stand and axing it.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. And you are not allowed to do this.

[Finley]

No, you're not.

[Mia Wong]

This is. This is under the.

[EZ]

Under the terms.

[Mia Wong]

Under the terms of the National Labor Relations act, which, you know, who knows? But by the time this episode goes out, there is a small chance it won't exist anymore. A bunch of provisions of it are under attack right now. But, like, that is.

[Finley]

We have two unfair labor practices filed with the NLRB since the terms of negotiation have been in effect. And they are not, in fact, progressive bargaining charges, but issues of status quo where they're trying to change the way that they do scheduling change the way that they do, like, abstinence, discipline, which are topics that are covered in bargaining and should only be changed in bargaining while bargaining is active. But they're trying to change them and then say that these have been the policies all along. And so.

[Mia Wong]

Oh, my God.

[Finley]

Literally.

[Mia Wong]

Gaslighting.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[EZ]

Oh, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Like actual. Actual straight up. You could pick up the gap, the psycho, the psychology textbook point to it.

[EZ]

Like, oh, yeah, just pick up that.

[Finley]

Whole lamp and we have their. Their words in writing of every step of the way where you can see the language change and be like, no, you are the person who said before that it was this other thing. That was you.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

So we filed unfair labor practice about those things. And you can, in fact, not track them anymore because since the government shut down, you can find a little PDF that explains.

[Mia Wong]

Yep.

[Finley]

That all USPS are going to be pending indefinitely. And that is all you can find.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

And it's also fun because Trump illegally fired one of the Democratic people on it. So you don't have a quorum any. On the board of the National Labor Relations Boards. They don't have a quorum anymore, which is a shit show. And making any nlrb, like, attempt to get anything done to the NLRB really annoying.

[EZ]

Yeah. Yeah. I think the direct action has been helpful where like just that reality, which is, I think just. It would drive me crazy. And it is. It is gaslighting. This is traumatizing. If a boyfriend does it to you, it's a red flag. But when your boss does it to you, you know, it's like, yeah, the. The public's fine with it.

[Finley]

Business.

[EZ]

Yeah. It's the cost of business. Yeah, it is just the continuous non stop onslaught of regressive bargaining tactics that, like, from the minute we started, despite the fact that, like, I was sitting next to the director when we said reunionizing, it was like a split second before she said, yep, we recognize it. And so our. Our direct action at the work stoppage. I remember our first work stop. If you sat for half an hour, management was very cool with that. The second time we did it, we did it for an hour. We should have done our homework better because we didn't know that you can't, like, leaflet on store property because Chicago is our landlord. I'm kind of like that store property. But I put on my clerical collar. I put on a T shirt that had, like, give unto Caesar. What is Caesar's? And also, like a little footnote about, you know, run me my money. You know, there's a more obvious instruction from Jesus out of Luke that's like, pay the worker their wages. But I was wearing my clerical. I set up the PA and I. And I was loud. There was a Hyde Park Herald reporter who, you know, took my comment, who. I remember him walking over to Naeed and I think asking her for her comment. I had a Bluetooth speaker that was Dan's right, playing Never, never fight a man with a perm by Idols. And I will not forget. I will not forget the way our. The deputy director approached me. She was like, okay, this is fine. This is all fine. I just want to let you know this is fine, but can you please turn the music off? And it took me about 20 minutes to just turn the buttons down slowly. But like that, we were reprimanded.

[Finley]

Yeah, we got a very, very angry email the next day illustrating what the consequences would be if we tried to do a similar action again in that manner.

[EZ]

And so we picked it outside their store. That was the next direct action that we did. But, like, I do think our most impactful direct actions have been the ones that have been noisy, that have been incredibly visible. When we picketed last, it was on the first day of classes. We sell, like, a lot of core course books for the college at the university. And so there were students like that. We were like, hey, do you have the bookseller who sold you that book to have a living wage? And students, like 19 year olds, are so outraged by the amount of money I make as a grown person.

[Mia Wong]

Mm.

[Finley]

I heard so much eat the rich that day from Zillennials.

[EZ]

Hell yeah. Hell, yeah. But it is clear that when the public is made aware of what's happening at a store that a lot of people love just so much like, it is a part of the community and I think so much a part of people's. And even like my own before I work there, our experience of being in this, like, tight knit, bizarre community.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah.

[EZ]

And folks are upset, like they. And I think rightfully so. And that's just. I think really the beauty of direct action is not just that it empowers us, but it really just, like, in a sort of spectacle way, says, this is what, this is what they're doing. You want a place that you love to run this way and to treat people like this. Yeah. So.

[Finley]

And I think they're really effective for that reason, especially because people are really, like, on our side when they talk to us. But they're also really surprised because, like, yeah, part of the instant recognition thing, part of the being cool with us having union buttons on the register, part of all of that is the fact that management is benefiting from the illusion that they're on good terms with us. And so, like, one of the reasons that we held that picket was to be like, hey, just because they are not stopping us does not mean they have done anything to improve the material conditions that we have been organizing around this whole time.

[EZ]

Yeah, well, and.

[Mia Wong]

And also to be incredibly clear about this, like, it's so obvious it has to actually directly be stated, which is that all of the things they are doing are union busing tactics. Because their, their strategy here is to do a recognition and then go for the second place where unions most commonly collapse, which is once you're recognized as a, as a bargaining unit, the second place they fail is getting the first contract. And that that's what they're really obviously trying to do. And yeah, the fact that people don't understand that they're just running a thing that, like, I'm. I'm trying to think of how to even describe it was like, like that bookstore was like, like it was treated as, like something that was. As an institution that was like part of the university. That's like the way it was, like, treated culturally was this is like our thing, and these people are running it into the ground because they don't want to pay their workers, like, enough money to survive, which is just hideous.

[Finley]

And that's really all it comes down to when you look at what the facts on the ground are, is the decisions that they are making are directly tied to the fact that they feel like they have no money, which is directly to the fact that they are paying the executive director too much, which is directly tied to the fact that they want to have an excuse to not pay us anything.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

It's like, oh, wow, we don't have enough money because we're spending like $160,000 on an executive director. Have you considered you can simply eliminate this entire expense by turning this into an actual co op? You could do it in, like, one day and you suddenly would not have the administration expenses because those people wouldn't be there. You could do this really easily.

[Finley]

Well, and as the like movement in and out of that position over the past year demonstrates, it has no effect on the operations store. The thing that has any effect on the operations of the bookstore is the fact that seven people have left, not been replaced, and all of their work has been redistributed across, like, increasingly siloed positions to the people who are left so that you have no help on your particular assigned task that is now yours and yours alone. And you just feel terrible in your little hole by yourself.

[Mia Wong]

Which this is something like. I know for a fact that multiple people on that board know what a speed up is. Like, that's a speed up. I know for a fact that you know what this is.

[Finley]

And most of them who know what it is have written against them.

[EZ]

Yeah, just kind of like expanding a bit larger. The staff at the Museum of Science and Industry has also unionized, and they were outside of their store threatening to strike. And so I loved on the picket line, like, I had a sign that said fire Jenny. And I went to explain to the. Yeah, I went to explain to the UE employee who. Jenny was the UE employee who worked at the Graduate Students United at UChicago. And she went, oh, I know who Jenny is. And that's. I don't know.

[Finley]

Just.

[EZ]

Yeah, it's sick that, like, somebody can make their living making my life worse. But A, that's. That's capitalism. And also B, like, I. She has been involved, that lawyer and like, a number of, like, she. Busting. Trying to bust unions at UChicago unsuccessfully, and also representing Northwestern in a case where one of their employees accused them of sexual harassment and discrimination. You know, so it's like you're. You're really. This. This is. This is the person that you're working with. This is the tool that you're using.

[Finley]

You know, this is who you would rather pay.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

And it's also. It's like that.

[Finley]

That.

[Mia Wong]

That's the thing where this. This whole metaphor of, like, the boss acting as an Abusive partner is suddenly getting very literal in terms of who they're. Who the people that they are employing do for their other shit, which is defending those people. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like there's a structural connection between management and patriarchy.

[EZ]

Wow.

[Mia Wong]

Who could possibly.

[Finley]

Who could possibly have done this between systems of abuse?

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. Like, who could possibly have written about this? Checks, notes, looks at the books that were written by the members of the board.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Like.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

I'm so mad about this. Like, Will making after Empire is really good.

[EZ]

Oh, it is.

[Finley]

Yeah.

[EZ]

And I, like. I don't know how much I can, like, hold those individual board members responsible when it seems like so many of them are, like, just now finding out about it. Yeah. That's some abuse 101, is to make sure that the person that you are exploiting that you are, you know, taking advantage of that. They don't feel like they can say to people who could help them, this is what's happening to me. And that, like, the people who would be sympathetic could, you know, go and take the initiative to help folks. And I'm grateful that we have a meeting with Robert Peters coming up soon. It was supposed to happen. That has not yet. And I appreciate how dedicated he is and his staff is to making sure that our union sits down and talks with him. But it is also, like, there's a.

[Finley]

Deep irony for him accepting an award from another union and rescheduling a meeting with ours to do it.

[EZ]

No, no, no, no, no. It's because we have Jacob. I always say it incorrectly.

[Finley]

Afscme.

[Mia Wong]

Afscme. Yeah.

[EZ]

Yeah. The big end. But that's also, like, part of the other great community support. Like, I mentioned, that UE employee. But, you know, there are other union employees who, just because they love the bookstore so much, will show up to every outreach event that we have. He was one of the first people to have a yard sign. And it's funny, he lives right next to this guy from my church who also has a window sign. And that's how I found out they were neighbors.

[Finley]

Yeah. It's really cute.

[EZ]

But, like, I'm proud that we're wobblies because there is a really long tradition of, you know, being in Chicago, a lot of radical organizing that I think fits our spirit. And also, like, the seminary co op spirit. It has been hard that we don't have a lot of resources towards bargaining. Yeah. But, like, we're good at direct action, and we also have. I'll give the Ask me award. I'll give it a Pass. Because Jacob's been so. And other community members have been so helpful in just giving their time and their skills and their expertise. So yeah, yeah.

[Finley]

The MSI union, the grad students union in particular have been incredible allies to us and have been. They were huge like presences on our picket because like, because we did an open store running picket, we had only about half of our actual union members available because everyone else had to be on desks in the stores keeping them running. And so the majority of the people who were like collecting signatures to get Jenny Goltz fired and otherwise improve our bargaining conditions were people from other unions who were just out there being wonderful, awesome solidarity with us.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

So my first picket line. I think I may have said this last episode, but my first picket line ever was the grad student picket line in 2019. This was the first time I was ever on a picket. And it rocked.

[EZ]

Hell yeah.

[Mia Wong]

And yeah, it makes me really happy to see that the whole base of sort of union organizing from that has like, you know, it's this thing that like I remember when this was like, you know, like I was there in like one of the big pushes. Everyone, they finally won and it's like they're still around helping people because workers fucking fight together and well, and then.

[Finley]

They'Ll always be like, hey, one thing that we know about Jenny ghls is she likes to lose. And we're like, thank you. Thank you, Finn.

[EZ]

It's not that she likes to use the quote is she's very good at losing. Which that's true.

[Finley]

Even better.

[EZ]

Even better. Yeah. And like what you were saying about GSU, I don't remember what I think like 2008, 2007 was like when they said we starting organizing for unionizing the graduate students. I had a roommate who was like a 12th year PhD student who was around when that shit started. You can just count hanging out with your wife in Australia as field research, I guess.

[Mia Wong]

But love this, love this.

[EZ]

Well, she's just doing postdocs. You're just hanging out. But we had a baby yesterday. Anyway, yeah, like I, I was around. He came back to finish his PhD like about the time like when the. The contract was ratified and I just with what is it? 16, 17 months of bargaining, no contract. In the name of my blessed Lord Jesus Christ. Like Jesus Christ. GSU has had like, has such a wealth of knowledge because they've been through just like heaps of bullshit and it's mm years.

[Mia Wong]

It's like, okay, I want to. I would like the fucking GSU thing, they had a whole thing when I was there like in like 2019. The whole, the whole thing was that and like genuinely this is like one of the most admirable things I've ever seen a union do, which was they refused to take their, their case because the university was refusing to recognize them. And they, they refused to take their case to the NLRB because they knew that if they did it there was, there was a pretty good chance that the old Trump NLRB was going to like bust every single graduate school union in the country. So instead of trying to win for themselves, they fucking didn't do it. And just like fought on picket lines instead and it fucking rocked it.

[Finley]

Waste.

[Mia Wong]

That's rad as hell. They rock. They're great. Like yeah, yeah, shout out to gsu.

[EZ]

Yeah, shout out to gsu.

[Finley]

Well, and they are a great, great, great example to us all in terms of like how to persist on a fight through attrition. Because one of the things that like you try so hard as a management team to do is just wait until everyone gets tired and leaves. And like it seems like grad students would be the perfect population to just wait out because they rotate out constantly. But like just the way that they have managed to maintain energy through generations and generations of organizers and get it over the line at long last is so encouraging.

[EZ]

Yeah.

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[Finley]

I turned off news altogether.

[Mia Wong]

I hate to say it, but I.

[EZ]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[Ad]

It's the rage bait.

[Finley]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[EZ]

We got Clear facts.

[Mia Wong]

Maybe we can calm down a little.

[EZ]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts.

[Mia Wong]

Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Matt Rogers]

Honestly, Honestly, Honestly.

[Ad]

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[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And guess what? I'm Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And.

[Bowen Yang]

What?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, I'm stressed. Why? I got invited to a Friendsgiving, and now there's the big question. What to bring?

[Bowen Yang]

One thing's for sure, nobody makes a better cocktail than you. Just bring a bottle of Casamigos.

[Matt Rogers]

Casamigos?

[Mia Wong]

Duh.

[Bowen Yang]

And nothing brings people together like a batch of Casamigos Margs.

[Matt Rogers]

A Casamigos margarita really is the perfect cocktail.

[Bowen Yang]

Plus, Casamigos goes with everything.

[Matt Rogers]

Turkey, stuffing, Mac and cheese.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, I was thinking more like cranberry juice or gingerbrew, but that works too well.

[Matt Rogers]

Remember the iconic rule of culture number 743. Anything goes with my Casamigos. Plus, the most popular person at the party is always the bartender or the.

[Bowen Yang]

Person who brings Casamigos to the party.

[Matt Rogers]

Friendsgiving is officially looking up now.

[Bowen Yang]

See, no need to stress over what to bring when there's Casamigos.

[Matt Rogers]

Now the only question left is what to wear if only Casamigos made clothes.

[Bowen Yang]

There's an idea.

[Matt Rogers]

Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume.

[Mia Wong]

There's a thing I remember from. I think the last place I read into it was like, one of Mike Duncan's things about the French Revolution. But, like, one of the things he talked about was, like, the ways in which part of what caused the French Revolution was that, like, they spent a whole bunch of time teaching all of these kids these, like, incredibly radical enlightenment ideas. And then they were like, wait, we live in, like, the most absolute monarchy that has ever existed. What the fuck?

[Finley]

We hate this.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Like, wait, hold on. And it's like, there is obviously always sort of contradictions between, like, the number of people I have seen write books about labor resistance and then, like, go bust. Unions is pretty large. But there's a reason why everyone from, like, Pinochet through, like, the Trump administration, I mean, back through, like, the original Nazis, it's like one of the first places, you know, I mean, like, the Greek riot police had this thing where it was like, the first place you go when there's discontent is like, you must stop the workers from. From allying with the students. You must do this or you're fucked.

[Finley]

Yeah. But the workers and the students love each other. They're all kissing.

[EZ]

And we're the same person sometimes, you know? Yeah.

[Finley]

So often.

[Mia Wong]

Yep, yep, yep.

[EZ]

Couple of my comrades. A kiss on the forehead.

[Finley]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

Aww. Yeah. And I think, like, that is. I think, like, the positive element of all of this is, like, the. The way that one campaign winning can transform the lives of everyone else around you is so astonishing. And I've seen it happen in so many places where, like, one shop wins and suddenly everyone else is like, could be us. Could be us.

[EZ]

Yes, it's possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Finley]

Well, and I think that we're trying to capitalize on that and trying to make sure that we can be the next person to, like, capitalize on GSU's win and help MSI do the same. But, like, as much as we have really suffered from the at the table, bargaining, negotiating process and been really sort of beaten down in the past year on that battleground, I think we have learned so much about the allies that surround us and the people who, like, want to do more than just email our board members. And we're like, we don't know what else you can do because we don't know who makes these decisions for you to yell at. But we have so many people who have, like, signed up for an email list with us. So many people who are, like, ready to go as soon as we figure out what we need them to do.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

And that's been really encouraging and bolstering while management continues to, like, just not acknowledge us when they feel too cornered. Like, they simply never spoke of the picket because it happened outside. And so they couldn't be mad about it. So they didn't have to tell us off about it, but they also just didn't speak of it.

[EZ]

Yeah. This is. Chicago is a union town. And that's. Yeah.

[Finley]

What.

[EZ]

Yeah, I. I'll admit I'm angry. When I go into work, they don't care enough to get the mold and the dust remediated, you know, and the ducts, and I can't really breathe when I go into work. And I also don't have health insurance. Right.

[Mia Wong]

Oh, my God.

[EZ]

Well, I do have health insurance, but I have to pay for, like, you know, I have to pay for my own premiums through a marketplace thing, and that's. That's not really affordable. And, yeah, like, as frustrated as I am, like, coming into work, it is. It's the people, you know, and I think that's for a lot of folks who have stayed at the bookstore. I don't know how much you relate to this then, like, it has been like, other booksellers, the folks that we've gotten to know through the community who, like, who do make a difference, at least for me, and whether or not I stay.

[Finley]

Oh, absolutely.

[EZ]

Yeah. This is a good fight.

[Finley]

The union crew that we have is a incredibly worthwhile team to be on. It is a group of people that I feel very solid standing shoulder to shoulder with. I think that is, like, without question, one of the things that, like, keeps the stores a place that you can work, even if it's not a good place to work right now.

[EZ]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Finley]

And honestly, I think that would have sustained me a lot longer if my commute were different, you know?

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Mia Wong]

Wait.

[EZ]

Okay, sorry.

[Mia Wong]

Could we roll back to the part where you can't breathe? Because there's. I feel like. Because there's mold. Because I feel like you just dropped that very quickly. It was like. Oh, yeah. That's like a normal part of the work. What the.

[Finley]

Well, so for a very long time, you've been allowed to request that you only work at the co op because there is a known MOG problem at 57th street that they can't afford to or can't get the landlord to ameliorate. But there is also, at least in our lung experience, some sort of growth issue in the venting at the seminary co op.

[EZ]

Yeah, it's. It's very dusty, at least. And like, I. When I wear, like, a. Like a KN95 for a little bit, like, that helps a little. I take, like, five Benadryl, usually, and then that.

[Mia Wong]

Jesus Christ.

[EZ]

That kind of. That kind of helps. And that's more just, I think, like, I mean, not more. That is, in part, like my own health. But if I had the resources to be able to take care of my health and get what I need, maybe I could withstand the mold and the dust and the ducts. A little bit easier. But like that.

[Mia Wong]

Well, but also, like, like, as an employer, it is your responsibility to not have your workplace poison your employees. Like, I'm sorry.

[EZ]

Like that part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

And then also make them pay for the medical care to treat medical problems that they're having because you poisoned them with mold. Like, what? That's.

[Finley]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

What? Jesus Christ. It's so evil.

[Finley]

Well, and we had a couple of clauses in our first draft of the collective bargaining agreement that included demands regarding mold remediation at 57th Street. And I do believe those clauses have been struck in subsequent rounds.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's a thing that you could ask people to do, which is go ask people to complain about the bold. Like, it seems like a thing you could do.

[EZ]

Yeah, it's. That might be a. Worth another direct action. I also noticed, like, people in the store, like, they cough when they enter.

[Finley]

Yeah.

[EZ]

You know, and like. Oh, God. This is where the. Like the snake eats its own tail. The wheel turns inside the wheel. Right. Because, like, maybe, like, if I'm giving them good faith, benefit of the doubt, management would have if they were overloaded with so many tasks that they have to take on, you know, sort of more supervisory management, if y' all didn't have to do all these tasks, maybe you would have time to. If there were more people hired in the bargaining unit, perhaps you could yourself have more time to improve the conditions for the store, not just for your workers, but also for the people who enter the stores. But because you will hire new workers until there's a contract, you are just so overworked and you can't. And it's just like this. This turns until the boss decides that it does it. And it's like, that's. This is their responsibility too, to bargain in good faith and to treat their workers correctly. Like, this is an active decision that they could make that they are not making. So, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

I gotta say that that might be the single wildest thing I ever heard, like, an hour into an interview is, oh, yeah, they're poisoning us.

[EZ]

What? The mold. Just the mold.

[Finley]

Also, like, proof that this is the craziest place to work. Because, like, that doesn't even land on our radar anymore because we've been just, like, banging our head against walls for a year.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mia Wong]

You know, I keep going back to the abusive relationship metaphor, but, like, that is one of the big things about abusive relationships is that because of the information control and because of the way that your world gets condensed down into a really, really tiny Narrow set of experiences where you're isolated and you're only interacting with, like, one person who was controlling everything about your life. It becomes really difficult to see things that are very, very obviously wrong the moment you start step out of it.

[Finley]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

And, you know, I don't know, maybe it turns out having absolute hierarchical relationships with control is an extremely bad way to run literally anything, especially the thing that your livelihood depends on that you do most of your time.

[EZ]

Just a thought.

[Mia Wong]

Wow.

[Finley]

Well, and it also just like, means that you are too busy to actually interface in any meaningful way with your workers. Like.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

If I tell you that it took me 2/3 of the day to schedule a 15 minute conversation with any of four managers who were on site to quit, I would not be lying.

[Mia Wong]

Jesus Christ, I can't even take your resignation.

[Finley]

They at one point tried to reschedule that conversation, which I was attempting to have on Friday to Monday. And I was like, I think you.

[EZ]

Want to know this.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. It's like managers, you two are getting screwed over by understaffing. Oh, my God.

[EZ]

I do think that's starting to take a toll too, on management, which is a little encouraging.

[Finley]

They're losing it.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

They are not feeling well.

[EZ]

And because, like, for me, I don't know, I'm not going to trust a boss. Like, I gestated for three months in the 1997 UAW strike. Like, that's. Oh, yeah, classes are canceled. Yeah. You know, I know how that ended, but I remember one of the supervisors who. Who at one point in her, like, her previous career had been on a picket line for a very long time, had been on strike, and she like, immediately took one of our little sabo cat reed pins, put it on her backpack, and is otherwise, like, as far as I can tell, generally supportive of the union. But also, man, lady, I wish you would make us stink.

[Finley]

Because here's the thing. I think she only talks to us. I feel like the other managers do not speak to her.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

Am I crazy?

[EZ]

I could just talk about that for a very long time and I don't think we have the time, so.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. Yeah. Before we get into what can people do to help, is there anything else that you want to make sure that you get to.

[Finley]

I think the big thing that we should emphasize too is as much as we are complaining and frustrated about the process, we know that this is not impasse and that we are so sure that, like, there is still negotiating to be done, there is still conversation to be had, and that, like, we have been emphasizing that at every opportunity to management, as we have to, but, like, just because we are tired and frustrated means nothing in terms of us giving up. Because this is a fight that is going to continue.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah. And like, to that point, Finn, we're doing this because we love the stores. Like, I. The stores were a really important place for me, just putting down roots in the neighborhood. And I think when you love something a lot, like, you gotta be brave enough to wrestle with it and that our unionizing is the right thing. It is the thing that will, like, hopefully create an environment where the people who make that bookstore run, who sell the books, in the long run, it will make the institution healthier. I really do believe, and just that we've been talking about this metaphor as the boss of. As an abusive partner. I think for so many folks, when they are. Whether it's something like domestic violence or it's in a union campaign or you're speaking out against your neighbors being abducted and shot and killed in the street, there is such an expectation that I have to sit by and be quiet while this happens. And part of that, I think what does prevent, and at least in my experience, experience as someone who survived, you know, particular kinds of violence, that, Yeah, I. I wasn't sure I was doing the right thing. But us unionizing is absolutely the right thing. It is the right thing for the stores. It is the right thing for the community and for the workers. And I just, as much as I'm frustrated, like, yeah, I. I know myself and my. My fellow booksellers are doing this out of love. Like, it is absolutely love for the stores and the community we serve.

[Finley]

So, yeah, we're never gonna feel bad for continuing to fight for what is the right thing to do.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah.

[EZ]

I'm too broke to feel bad.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. Don't be poisoned by mold every time you go to the bookstore to support the union. Yeah.

[Finley]

Wear your mask at seminary co op.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Finley]

Take a stab of cat pin.

[EZ]

Yeah. Ask to talk to a manager. Make it a long talk.

[Finley]

Yeah. Honestly, see if you can get one on the floor. We'll help you.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. So how can people help support y'?

[EZ]

All?

[Mia Wong]

And do you have places where people can find more information about the campaign and follow updates?

[EZ]

We have a change.org petition that I think if. If you can link it somewhere in the description.

[Finley]

Yep.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah, we will link in the description.

[EZ]

Yeah. So that, that does ask folks to sign off in support of the termination of Jenny Goltz, their union busting lawyer, as well as releasing, like, the full slate of Financial information too. So there's a change.org petition. You can also follow us on Instagram. Uncoop Booksellers Union. We've got the little icon with the sabo cat. Sign the petition. There are also some action items on some of the posts, such as emailing the board and management about the release of financial information and also the termination of Jenny Goltz's employment. You can also email those emails on that post about the mold too, if you want me to breathe at work.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah. I'm so mad about this.

[EZ]

This is.

[Mia Wong]

I am going to lead the description with bear poisoning you because, like, I'm so angry about this.

[EZ]

Thank you. I'm too tired to be angry about it.

[Finley]

I'm so glad that someone with a French perspective has remembered that the mold is totally bogus, because I had forgotten.

[EZ]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Finley]

It's so bogus.

[EZ]

I. It's also like, it's in such plain sight. Like if you're in 57th street books and you look to the right of the air conditioning unit and room one, you can see that shit growing on the wall.

[Finley]

It's wild.

[EZ]

And it's like. But I also feel like if I talk to management, which I tried about this, it just is not a priority. My breathing, not a priority. Yeah, it is wild. Thank you for reminding me that someone.

[Mia Wong]

One day when you win, someone's going to write a paper about necropolitics in this or something like, good Lor.

[EZ]

Jeez. Yeah, some shit. But yeah. Sign the petition, follow us on Instagram, help us make a ruckus and come.

[Finley]

Talk to us and our managers at the bookstore because we love to talk to people while we sell them books.

[EZ]

Yeah, yeah. We'll take any goodwill we can get.

[Finley]

So very much so.

[Mia Wong]

Hell yeah. Well, thank you to both so much for coming on and just for doing this in, I don't know, like a place that was really special to me when I was.

[EZ]

Yeah.

[Mia Wong]

When I was there for a long time.

[EZ]

Thanks for your help.

[Finley]

Thank you for following up with us. Of course. It's really nice to have this platform every so often.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah.

[EZ]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mia Wong]

Hell yeah. Well, hopefully we will have you back on when you fucking win. And yeah.

[Finley]

Yes. Celebratory round.

[EZ]

I'm buying. I'm personally buying the Cool Zone media team around at Jenny's. When we win our contract.

[Finley]

I will come back down to Hyde park just for the celebration.

[EZ]

Change everyone's oil while you're down too.

[Finley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, don't take that long. I won't be ready for a second.

[Mia Wong]

Yeah, this this is bit It Could Happen Here and you too can resist both your abuser and your boss, even when they're the same person.

[Finley]

And you should.

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[EZ]

Get him.

[Finley]

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.

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[EZ]

This is an iHeart podcast.