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I was amazing on that show, sister. Were you? I had some. I was amazing and I was better than you would be if you went. This is exactly why Bob is a good drag queen, because she won't back down. She's not gonna go double back on that lie. I felt like you came in real hot, real strong and that is just not the game, girl. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you why you're wrong and I can't wait to do this. Please listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Pod, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's 1972. A young British family is attempting to sail around the world when disaster strikes. Their boat is hit by killer whales and it sinks in seconds. All they have left is a life raft and each other. This is the true story of the Robertson family and their fight to survive, hosted by me, Becky Milligan. Listen to Adrift, an Apple original podcast produced by Blanchard House. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts Media. Two weeks ago, four days before Halloween, former Fox News anchor Tucker Carlson hosted the 27 year old white supremacist influencer Nick Fuentes on Tucker's popular Internet show. Two weeks later, this interview has over 6 million views on YouTube, over half a million on Rumble, and 18 million alleged views on X, the Everything app. With over 100,000 likes and 20,000 retweets, plus the unknown number of views from podcasting platforms like Apple or Spotify, on which Tucker Carlson's show also airs, this is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis throughout The almost entirely friendly two hour interview, Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson discussed Nick's libertarian origin story, his conversion to Trump's bombastic style of populism, getting a show on the right side broadcast network as a teenager after a viral college debate, how the Daily Wire initially befriended, then tried to quash his early political career, and how that pushed Nick to adopt a far right adversarial stance against mainstream conservatism and the gatekeepers of the conservative establishment, which Nick identified as the quote unquote Zionist Jews like Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin and Dennis Prager. Here's Nick and Tucker. It was these the guys that were really controlling the media apparatus that seemed to me to be the biggest impediment. Fox. Fox is not a Jewish business though. Well, Rupert Murdoch is an ally of Netanyahu, so he's aligned. Yeah. And he owns the whole News Corp empire, so. And yeah, he's certainly a part of it also. I mean, Dave Rubin though, does he matter? No, no, not really. Right. I mean, Dave Rubin is like, I don't know. Do people watch Dave Rubin? They did back then. I mean, because you got to consider they, they were kind of like the ascendant new media, you know, they represented the next big thing. I mean, and Ben Shapiro seems irrelevant to me now, now, but back then for. No, I guess that's true. So maybe you won. Oh, certainly. Tucker tried to advise Fuentes to focus more of his ire on Israel's influence on American politics as a foreign policy issue and not quote unquote blood guilt based on ethnicity, while Fuentes defended the necessity of his rhetoric against what he called the quote unquote unique issue of quote unquote organized Jewry that promotes a form of identity politics linking Israel to, quote, Jewishness as an ethnicity, identity and religion unquote, which makes most culturally Jewish people incompatible with America. First, patriotism. This is basic dual loyalty, antisemitism, which Nick continued to outline by framing Jewish people as a historically stateless people that resist assimilation and put their own interests above those of which ever non Jewish majority country they currently reside. A tension which the existence of Israel now heightens. No other country has a strong identity like that. This religious blood and soil conviction, this history of being in the Diaspora, stateless, wandering, persecuted, and in particular the historic animosity between the Jewish people and the Europeans. They hate the Romans because the Romans destroyed the temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes to the Arch of Titus and gives it the finger and takes a picture. We don't think like that as Americans and white people. We don't think about the Roman Empire in 2000 years ago. They do. Right. Americans and Christians would never think about checks, notes, the Roman Empire or the events of 2000 years ago. Sure, Nick. Obviously, to many people listening to this show, Fuentes has been a known anti Semitic streamer troll for nearly 10 years, and Tucker himself knows this. The main pushback Tucker gave Nick was on why Nick attacked other figures on the far right who were possible allies of the America first movement and America first foreign policy, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, J.D. vance, Joe Kent, and Tucker himself. Why attack them? Well, in short, they attacked me first. Yeah, but like, who cares? Well, let's take Joe, Ken. I mean, you attack me constantly. Tucker also advocated framing that does not allow what he believes to be popular America first ideas, like opposition to foreign influence and dual citizenship to get subverted by leaning into accusations of hate and racial prejudice, which, during the interview, Fuentes nominally agreed with some of them. I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut. I really try not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing, you know, but after January 6th and just finding out the number of FBI personnel in the crowd, it's like. And I've just seen this, David Duke is a great example. Some of these are the Charlottesville rally. Yeah. Had a bunch of feds there being like, we're white supremacists, we hate the blacks. You know, using the N word, whatever. You know, it's like, that's not real. Like, there is some of that going on, don't you think? I think that. I think that there's a lot of sincere people, for sure. I completely agree, you know, and they're just numb skulls. For some reason, Nick neglected to mention that he, in fact, was at Charlottesville. And the backlash to the Unite the Right rally forced him to drop out of college and propelled his streaming career. Throughout this whole interview, it mostly felt like Tucker was trying to act as a mentor figure to Fuentes, advising him to let go of past beefs and providing a sort of clean slate to allow Nick to present his political views in a more streamlined manner as simply anti Israel as an extension of America First. During the interview, Tucker himself explained his motives for inviting Fuentes on the show. Do you hope that people who want to learn what's happening and who you are will watch the whole thing? It's probably naive hope that it won't be reduced to whatever you're saying, something naughty and me laughing and see, they're both Nazis. I mean, you know, that's going to happen, of course. But I'm willing to take that risk because I just think it's important to know you're clearly ascendant. You're enormously talented. You're more talented than I am, for sure, as a talker. So. And they've, you know, there have been a lot of attempts to silence you, and it hasn't worked. So my calculation, I'll just be as blunt as I can be. It's like, Jordan, want to have Fuentes on. Everyone's gonna be like you, but you're a Nazi, just like Fuentes. Okay. But then I'm like, I don't think Fuentes is going away. Ben Shapiro tried to, like, strangle him in the crib in college, and now he's bigger than ever. So it probably would just be worth hearing what Nick Fuentes thinks. I just want to be transparent about my. My motives here. And I think Tucker is right in calling Fuentes ascendant. We'll talk more about that at the end of this episode. For the last 30 minutes of this interview, the two discussed pornography, alcohol, and drugs as ruining America's young men through reality distortion. And I had a whole segment on Nick Fuentes explaining to a confused Tucker Carlson the concept of Internet pornography, which, unfortunately, I had to cut for time. But if there's enough demand for this on Blue sky or Reddit, maybe I can make a bonus episode next week. Rather than focusing on the substance of this interview and Tucker's motivation. A lot of mainstream reporting has just highlighted a few controversial sound bites, like an offhand semi troll comment about how Fuentes admires Stalin. But this interview did send shockwaves through the American conservative ecosystem, of which Fuentes was always held at a very long arm's length away. In the immediate wake of the interview, references to Tucker were curiously removed from the Heritage Foundations donor page in partnership with the Tucker Carlson network. On October 30, Heritage President Kevin Roberts released a video defending Tucker, captioned, There has been speculation that Heritage is distancing itself from Tucker Carlson over the past 24 hours. I want to put that to rest right now. Conservatives should feel no obligation to reflexively support any foreign government, no matter how loud the pressure becomes from the globalist class or from their mouthpieces in Washington. The Heritage foundation didn't become the intellectual backbone of the conservative movement by canceling our own people or policing the consciences of Christians, and we won't start doing that now. We will always defend our friends against the slander of bad actors who serve someone else's Agenda that includes Tucker Carlson, who remains, and as I have said before, always will be a close friend of the Heritage Foundation. The venomous coalition attacking him are sowing division. Their attempt to cancel him will fail. Most importantly, the American people expect us to be focusing on our political adversaries on the left, not attacking our friends on the right. I disagree with and even abhor things that Nick Fuentes says, but canceling him is not the answer either. When we disagree with a person's thoughts and opinions, we challenge those ideas in debate. And we have seen success in this approach as we continue to dismantle the vile ideas of the left. Roberts primarily framed this as an issue of cancellation and included some pretty sketchy lines in that video. Roberts also said that Heritage doesn't, quote, take direction from members or donors, unquote. This video was polarizing to say the least. Nick Fuentes fans who are called groipers and America first nationalists rejoiced and claimed victory while many GOP establishment figures, Jewish Republicans and many Heritage employees were left bamboozled. The New York Post published internal Heritage Group chats with staff members writing that this was, quote, the most embarrassed I've ever been to be a Heritage employee. It's not close and quote, I'm disgusted by this and don't understand how this premeditated and orchestrated response could come out of one of the biggest think tanks in the world, unquote. More texts read, quote, saying we can't cancel someone is safe space wokeism and quote, if we are labeled on the same side as Nick Fuentes, then we deserve to lose. Talking with some of the interns, I think that there is a growing number of them who actually agree with Fuentes's views. Now, beyond employee dissent, sources close to Heritage told the New York Post that the think tank has been, quote, unquote, hemorrhaging evangelical Christian and Jewish donors. David Bernstein, the author of Woke Antisemitism and a former member of the task force at Heritage called Project Esther A National Strategy to Combat Anti Semitism, told the New York Post on November 3 that he had resigned from his position over Kevin Roberts remarks, citing the language of a venomous coalition aligned against Tucker to, quote Jewish Insider, quote, Rabbi Yaakov Menken, executive vice president of the Coalition for Jewish Values, told Jewish Insider that Robert's message, quote, was the most tone deaf in both its content and timing that I've ever heard from major Washington organization on any political side, unquote. Menken resigned from Heritage's Project Esther, the group's anti Semitism Initiative last week in response to Robert's video message defending Carlson along with Menken and Coalition for Jewish Voices. Several other groups have also publicly disaffiliated from Heritage's anti Semitism task force, including the National Jewish Advocacy center, the Zionist Organization of America and the Young Jewish Conservatives, unquote. On Halloween, Heritage President Kevin Roberts made a post summarizing a small sampling of Fuentes's most racist, anti Semitic and pro Hitler views and said, quote, our task is to confront and challenge those poisonous ideas at every turn to prevent them from taking America to a very dark place. Join us not to cancel, but to guide, challenge and strengthen the conversation and be confident as I am, that our best ideas at the heart of Western civilization will prevail. For those, especially young men, who are enticed by Fuentes and his acolytes online, there is a better way. Roberts has repeatedly said that attempting to cancel Fuentes would only grow his audience as opposed to whatever Roberts is doing by playing footsies with Tucker and Fuentes, resulting in multiple news stories a day, name dropping Fuentes and massively raising his public profile. It would not invite him to a Heritage event or to my show. But the point is we have to find other avenues to engage the ridiculous ideas that he's saying rather than, as many people have called for online, that you can just shun him, that you can just ignore him and that the problem goes away. My motivation for posting that video yesterday, especially looking ahead towards 2026 and 2028, is that we have to engage those issues if we want to build a movement. I understand that, particularly for our Jewish friends who ought to be upset about Fuentes comments about antisemitism, that he's just anathema. I agree with that as well. But if we're going to actually correct the scourge of anti Semitism, we've got to go convince those, unfortunately millions of young men who find that appealing. I do believe that they're convincible. I believe that people like you, hopefully people like us at Heritage and even people like Tucker might be able to play a role in that. Following backlash to Kevin Roberts initial statement, Roberts Chief of Staff Ryan Newhouse resigned from Heritage after being reassigned as a senior advisor in housing policy. Opposition sources told New York Post was the quote, unquote Siberia of Heritage. Before resigning, Newhouse reposted messages defending Robert's video, including a post advocating that quote, unquote virtue signaling employees at the Heritage foundation should resign if they're so outraged by Robert's statement during Halloween Weekend lawyer Mark Goldfedder resigned from the Heritage affiliated national Task force to Combat Anti Semitism. Writing on X the Everything app, I cannot serve under someone who thinks Nazis are worth debating. On November 1, Princeton University Professor Robert P. George, member of the Heritage Board of Trustees who allegedly has been attempting to oust Roberts as the head of the foundation. In the wake of this controversy, posted on X the Everything app, quote, american conservatism today faces a challenge. That challenge comes from those who reject our commitment to inherent and equal human dignity. They are seeking acceptance in the conservative movement and its institutions, and they do so with the ultimate objective of transforming them by undermining that commitment. I cannot accept the idea that we have no enemies to the right. The white supremacists, anti Semites, the eugenicists, bigots must not be welcome into our movement or treated as normal or acceptable. You sure about that? Robert P. George this conservative commitment to inherent and equal human dignity, you sure about that? You sure about that? Surely the American conservatives aren't restricting people's health care and pushing them off food stamps and kidnapping and uprooting families and sending them to far off countries. Seems like all those things would breach this commitment to inherent and equal human dignity. I never thought the leopards would eat my face. SOB's Heritage Board of Trustees member who voted for the Leopards eating People's faces party. We'll be right back after these ads. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech@lenovo.com Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't flip. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processor for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech Search power up@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo it's 1972. A young British family is attempting to sail around the world when disaster strikes. Their boat is hit by killer whales and it sinks in seconds. All they have left is a life raft and each other. This is the true story of the Robertson family and their fight to survive, hosted by me, Becky Milligan. Listen to Adrift, an Apple original podcast produced by Blanchard House. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Looking for your next obsession? Listen to High Key, a bold, joyful, unfiltered culture podcast coming at you every Friday. Now my question is, in this game of Mafia that we're gonna play, are you gonna do better than me? Say it now Duh. Period. I'm gonna eat. You're gonna do better than me? I'm gonna eat. Yes. I literally will. Ryan will. I cannot wait till we both team up and get you out and then one of us gets the other out because we didn't realize they were a traitor the whole time and you were actually an innocent. Y' all won't even know that I'm a traitor. 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Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. The conservative infighting industry intensified when on November 3rd Monday morning, Ben Shapiro released a 40 minute video captioned no to the Gripers. No to cowards like Tucker Carlson who normalize their trash. No to those who champion them. No to demoralization. No to bigotry and anti meritocratic horseshit. No to anti Americanism. No that fragmentation is being caused purposefully by a splinter faction of people led by a young man named Nick Fuentes. They call themselves the Gripers. They are white supremacists. They hate women, Jews, Hindus, many types of Christians, brown people of a wide variety of backgrounds, blacks, America's foreign policy and America's Constitution. They admire Hitler and Stalin and that splinter faction is now being facilitated and normalized within the mainstream Republican Party. The main agent in that normalization is Tucker Carlson, who is an intellectual coward, a dishonest interlocutor and and a terrible friend. And Tucker Carlson last week was aided, abetted, celebrated for normalizing Nazism within the Republican Party by the mainstay organization of the traditional right, the Heritage Foundation. Shapiro then had to preface his comments by saying, quote, this is not about free speech or cancellation, end quote. Criticisms of bad speech is in fact just a form of free speech, unquote. And went on this lengthy diatribe to explain how what he's doing isn't cancellation, which Ben defined as banning people from social media and publishing platforms. What would be more accurately described as de platforming as opposed to like social cancellation, which is not something that Ben is calling for. Ben is not calling for deplatforming. It is not cancellation to draw moral lines between viewpoints. In fact, we used to call that one of the key aspects of conservatism. It is not cancellation to refuse to signal boost Hitler's supporters like Nick Fuentes. It is not cancellation to criticize Tucker Carlson for rhetorically fluffing Nick Fuentes and other anti American crackpots. It's not cancellation if you urge others to stop promoting those who rhetorically fluff Nazi apologists. Those are all elements of free speech. And anyone who says differently is lying to you and lying for the most cynical reasons to misdirect from their own defense of those Nazi apologists and their promoters. The issue here isn't that Tucker Carlson had Nick Fuentes on his show last week. He has every right to do that. Of course, the issue here is that Tucker Carlson decided to normalize and fluff Nick Fuentes and that the Heritage foundation then decided to robustly defend that performance. Those who criticize both Tucker and Heritage aren't canceling. They are quite properly drawing a moral line. Now, from Tucker Carlson's interview, you might have gathered that Fuentes has some borderline views on race, a peculiar obsession with what he calls organized Jewry, and a rather sad relationship with the female sex. But probably you can weigh thinking that for the most part Fuentes lives on the radical edge of normality. You think that if you watch the interview because Tucker Carlson decided that it was important not only to host Fuentes, but to smooth over his views, water them down and make them far more palatable to a normal audience. Ben proceeded to do a 10 minute Nick Fuentes clip show playing a select collection of some of the most offensive things Nick has said to camera, and then blamed the left for creating the conditions that let this hatred emerge, framing Fuentes as the dialectical inverse of the Hyper Woke ID poll left. And there's no doubt that Nick Fuentes has a lot of play these days. That's because the Left by moving into a politics of anti white, anti Christian, anti male identitarianism created its bizarro mirror image. A white pseudo Christian incel identitarian movement dedicated to destroying the institutions of this country and replacing Americanism with something else. Nick Fuentes philosophy is not fully formed. It's an incoherent stew of malignity. The left did not create Nick Fuentes. He is the direct product of the right wing content ecosystem that Shapiro himself trailblazed. It's Ben Shapiro. But taken even further with post ironic Gen Z brain rot. Even if Fuentes himself has been banned from many of the big tent conservative events, his ideas still festered, spread under the radar and influenced the further radicalization of other right wing commentators so that they could better compete with Fuentes. Tucker himself was a part of this. The 2019 quote unquote Groiper war in which Nick Fuentes deployed his fans to Disrupt Turning Point USA Q&A events with leading questions pressured Charlie Kirk to adopt viewpoints further and further to the right, specifically on race and immigration. And now the white Great replacement is basically a mainstream conservative viewpoint and Fuentes played a huge part in that. This is in fact your problem, Ben. For the rest of this 40 minute video, Shapiro directed his attention to Tucker Carlson, criticizing his defense of Russia and multipolar views, Tucker's pro dictator comments, populist criticism of Trump and sort of dodgy anti Israel statements. Shapiro highlighted comments Tucker made during the Fuentes interview where he lampooned high profile Republicans and neocons who have been quote unquote, seized by the pro Israel, quote unquote brain virus, with Tucker claiming that he dislikes Christian Zionists quote more than anybody, unquote, because it's Christian heresy. Shapiro described the function of Tucker's current online platform as a safe space to bring on conspiracy theorists, fringe figures, alternative historians and those just outside the Overton window to then quote, unquote, gloss them. As Shapiro says it's not about building a radicalization pipeline out of the mainstream, but bringing the actual radical ideas to the mainstream. Tucker Carlson acts as an ideological launderer for other people's evils. Tucker Carlson says many inflammatory things, always buying back just enough of it to appear as though he's not saying what he's clearly saying. He's a master of gaslighting. Tucker Carlson, for example, would never say out loud what Nick Fuentes does. He wouldn't say the things many of his guests say. And so instead he acts as an ideological launderer. He takes other people's Hideous ideas. He softens them. He treats them with love and care, and then he provides them with a massive signal boost. He isn't merely talking to people in good faith, of course. He's promoting certain people and ideas and attacking others. This is how Tucker Carlson's ideological laundering works. You bring your dirty, ugly ideologies to Tucker Carlson's rhetorical car wash. He mixes it with some of the vestigial respect Americans have for him from his Fox News days, and voila, hideous ideas suddenly become mainstream. And then of course, Tucker denies he said anything controversial at all. He was just asking questions. He was just interviewing people. You don't want him to cancel people, do you? Ben continued to complain about Tucker platforming Candace Owens and her increasingly anti Semitic conspiracy theories. Except remember, it was your company that gave Candace a huge platform after she left Turning Point. And Prageru, Is she also a consequence of the woke left like Fuentes is Shapiro? The call is coming from inside your own company to further demonstrate how much of this stuff is downstream from Shapiro. It's actually because of Candace that Fuentes even went on Tucker's show at all. Candace had Fuentes on her show a few months prior, and when she went on Tucker's show, she told him how great Fuentes is and argued in his defense. As for Heritage, Ben acknowledged his long standing positive relationship with the Heritage foundation, working with him since he was just 17 years old, and recently had Kevin Roberts on his show to promote Robert's latest book. Which is why what Kevin Roberts did last week is tragic and awful. He put out a statement that Heritage foundation didn't just stand by Tucker Carlson. Kevin instead said openly and repeatedly that Tucker Carlson can do nothing ever that will sever his relationship with the conservative movement. He said that after and in defense of Tucker's glossing of Hitler defender Nick Fuentes. And he added that only members of the globalist class direct, quote, a venomous coalition, direct quote, subject to the dictates of someone else's agenda, direct, quote, oppose Heritage's ongoing relationship with Tucker Carlson. Which means that according to Kevin Roberts, apparently anyone opposing the ongoing mainstreaming of Tucker Carlson is acting on behalf of a foreign power. Kevin's statement is a betrayal of the Heritage Foundation's history and principles, which is presumably why both Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes loved it. Shapiro still expressed the need for an organization like Heritage that focuses on ideas over personal loyalty to grifters and expressed hope that Heritage could recover from this controversy and speak out against the, quote, unquote, moral rot that threatens our future. But if not, conservatives may need to look for leadership elsewhere. And the cause of this moral rot? Political horseshoe theory that is destroying both parties. With the GOP being eaten by radicals like the Democratic Party, the Republican Party is being eaten by its radicals. Many in the political class are too cowardly to stand up. Apparently they're willing to play footsie with groipers and hug Tucker Carlson out of fear of somehow losing support. They've been bamboozled by the lies of the X algorithm and the tick tock metrics. The left followed its radicals to electoral hell. Apparently many on the right wish to do the same. Forget the morality then, for just a moment, let's be pragmatic. Here is the thing. Americans hate Nick Fuentes philosophy. They think it's trash. Republicans by the polling, think it's trash. Independents think it's trash. Democrats think it's trash. And here's the other thing. Americans hate Tucker Carlson's laundered anti Americanism. Republicans think it's trash. Independents think it's trash. Democrats think it's trash. Americans are not pro segregation, pro rape, anti woman, pro child marriage, anti black, anti Jew, anti Indian, anti Latino, anti constitution, pro Hitler nutjobs like Nick Fuentes. You might want to tell that to, I don't know, Stephen Miller. Ben and like maybe half your employees, here's Matt Walsh's own description for his most recent Daily Wire podcast episode. Quote Somali tribal conflict has made its way into multiple American states. A man is arrested for shouting f the Jews at Dave Portnoy. Meanwhile, antifa riots with no consequence. White liberal radio host kisses Jasmine Crockett's feet, unquote. Ben the call is coming from inside the Daily Wire House. If Republicans decide to cower before the likes of neo Nazis and their propagandizers, they deserve to lose. And they will lose. Neo Nazis and their propagandizers are not Republicans. They are not America first, they are not maga. They sure as hell aren't conservative. These people aren't to my right. They are not attached in any way to the fundamental principles of conservatism. I'm sorry Ben, but they are. They are in the mega White House. They are on tv, on Fox News. They're getting more views than you are on TikTok and fucking Rumble. Many have either worked for you or still work for you. And you've been completely fine with all of that as long as they've been sufficiently pro Israel. Here's a Ben shapiro tweet from September 17, 2015. Ann Coulter tweets read Jews Awful Nonsensical Ann Coulter is also super pro Israel and has always been so I won't lose sleep. I never thought the leopards would eat my face. Sobs Conservative podcaster who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party The same day Shapiro released this 40 minute video, Matt Walsh posted quote, Pat Buchanan didn't just have good ideas, he was right about almost everything. He's the most vindicated political figure of our lifetime. Unquote. If you want a fun little 10 minute side quest, Google Pat Buchanan. Nazi Pat Buchanan Antisemitism Every few months, these right wing ghouls get a harsh reminder of the world that they have conjured into being. Remember the H1B visa debacle earlier this year with Elon, Musk and Ramaswamy upset that all of their racist fans don't want to bring in immigrant workers after Elon funded a campaign about how immigrants are stealing Americans jobs? As writer John Gans put it, quote, the GOP civil war is between the vanilla fascists and the National Socialists, unquote. At the Republican Jewish Coalition 40th Anniversary Summit, Congressman Randy Fine proudly announced that he canceled an upcoming event with Heritage. I was supposed to do an event with Heritage next week. Think on Wednesday. They don't know what I'm about to tell you right now. We're canceling it. They will have no future in my office and I will be calling on all of my colleagues on the Republican side to do the same. If those who support Tucker Carlson want to see a venomous coalition, all they need to do is go look in the mirror. During that same speech, he boasted about this I've called for Zoran Mandami to be deported. The only thing I want to see him running for is his gait at JFK on the deportation flight to Uganda. First they came for the Communists. Randy I never thought the leopards would eat my face. Sobs Florida Congressman with Twitter pronouns listed as Hebrew slash hammer who's a member of the Leopards Eating People's Faces party? During the opening to the Republican Jewish Coalition event, Ted Cruz addressed this moment of fracture within the establishment right as a quote, unquote, time of choosing and said that in the past six months he's, quote, seen more anti Semitism on the right than I had in my entire life. This is a poison and I believe we are facing an existential crisis in our party and our country. Unquote. Cruz later shared a Free Press article on his comments. The CEO of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Matt Brooks, told Jewish Insider that he Is, quote, appalled, offended and disgusted that Kevin Roberts and Heritage would stand with Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes and that there would be a, quote, reassessment of our relationship with Heritage in light of this. Unquote. On November 3rd, Missouri Senator and J6 supporter Josh Hawley denounced Fuentes's rhetoric as anti Semitic, telling Jewish Insider, quote, that's not who we are as Republicans, as conservatives. The question for us as conservatives is are those views going to define who we are? I think we need to say no. As a conservative, but also as a Christian. There is no place for anti Semitic hatred tropes and any of that stuff. Do we really want to be a part of what we've seen happen on college campuses? Unquote. Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, the co chair of the Senate Anti Semitism Task Force, told Jewish Insider that he was, quote, a little surprised that Heritage jumped out in support of Carlson and Nick Fuentes to say, hey, we want them in our camp. After the statements that were made, Heritage could have just sat back and not said anything, but instead they chose to jump out on their side. I don't get that. Unquote. Like Ben Shapiro and Josh Hawley, James Lankford related this to a perceived bipartisan crisis. Quote, the left has seen an implosion of their party based on anti Semitism rising in their party. I don't want to see the same thing happen on the right. What I've tried to be very clear on is that the new right is now quoting an old wrong, unquote. Senator Rick Scott of Florida basically said the same thing, quote, the Democrat Party, we already have a party that's for anti Semitism and is against Israel. The Republican Party is going to stand for Israel and we're going to stand against anti Semitism. I don't think there's any question, unquote, as if the Democrat Party is against Israel. And it's astonishing to watch all of these senators cope with the results of years of watering down accusations of anti Semitism to simply reflect any criticism of Israel, as they're now facing a massive resurgence of genuine anti Semitism from known anti Semitic actors on the right. Turns out it's way easier to police campus anti genocide protests than deal with the anti Semitism spread on the massive platforms of Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson. But not all Senators are worried. Lindsey Graham, while speaking at the Republican Jewish Coalition, was less worried about Tucker Fuentes and the future of the party. So I just want to say I feel good about the Republican Party. I feel good about where we're going as a nation. We're killing all the right people. We're cutting your taxes. Trump is my favorite president. We've run out of bombs. We didn't run out of bombs in World War II. So to those who worry about these stupid interviews and far off places, don't worry. The Republican Party has figured it out when it comes to Israel. We're killing all the right people. People here at the Leopards Eating People's Faces party. Surely the leopards will never eat my or my friends faces on the night of November 3, Heritage President Kevin Roberts gave a speech at Hillsdale College on anti Semitism and cancel culture. He first talked for two minutes about why he and Heritage will continue to oppose cancellation and the importance of loyalty toward friends, and defended his previous statement by reiterating that if you have a problem with someone's, quote, content, issues or ideas, then by all means go debate them, unquote. But then he admitted that his mistake, which was made, quote unquote with the best intentions, was focusing on the legitimate problem of cancellation over other problems like anti Semitism. The Roberts then immediately justified his rhetoric as an attempt to reach out to the quote unquote several million young men on the quote unquote far fringes of the right who are increasingly anti Semitic. And our motivation at Heritage for making that statement was to begin appealing even more than we have to those largely disaffected young men who are looking for belonging and identity by following the wrong people. This pseudo apology continues to frame this primarily as an issue of cancellation. Who is asking to cancel? Tucker Roberts acts as if there is nothing in between a lifelong endorsement and total cancellation. After Robert's comments at Hillsdale College, another member of the Heritage Anti Semitism Task Force, attorney Ian Speer, announced that he was leaving Heritage and posted a statement calling Robert's Hillsdale College speech a quote, strategic non apology that doubles down on loyalty to Tucker Carlson, muses about welcoming groipers and the groiper curious into the movement and continues to gaslight everyone about cancellation when that clearly isn't the issue, unquote. That Same day, Tuesday, November 4, Chris DeMuth, a Heritage Distinguished Fellow, also confirmed his resignation and an email leaked from the co chairs of the Heritage affiliated National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism sent to task force members with a list of demands the Heritage President Kevin Roberts demands, including that he delete his initial video apologize to Jews and Christians who, quote, believe that Israel has a special role to play both biblically and politically, unquote. A demand to condemn but not cancel Tucker Carlson's anti Semitic content and statements and host Shabbat dinners for the Heritage interns and junior staff. To quote directly from this leaked email addressing Roberts, quote, you pointed out repeatedly that we face a challenge in reaching disenfranchised young men who are caught in the spells of Nick Fuentes and others. To address this issue specifically, we recommend hiring a visiting fellow, one who shares mainstream conservative views on Israel, Jews and Christian Zionists who would help identify strategies and tools to win Gen Z and beyond it is clear that there is an internal battle within the conservative movement over who is to be included. The division between no enemy to the right versus a moral conservatism demands our attention. A conference that provides some guidelines to the movement on how to best keep unity without needing to include the worst among us. Unquote Two days later, the National Task Force decided to break ties with the Heritage foundation, writing in an email that it was, quote, important for us to continue the work of the task force outside the Heritage foundation for a season, unquote writing that this whole incident was, quote, exposed, a serious problem within the conservative movement. Unquote it's been like this for a long time. They've just been so focused on campus activists protesting the Palestinian genocide that they've missed the festering antisemitism spreading across the right. Quote the National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism will also now expand our work to fight the rising scourge of antisemitism on the right beyond our previous work combating the pro Hamas movement on the left. Unquote On November 18, the task force will be hosting a conference in Washington on exposing and countering extremism and anti Semitism on the right in partnership with the Conference of Christian Presidents for Israel. It could happen here. Will return after these messages. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech@lenovo.com Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't flip. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search power up@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo it's 1972. A young British family is attempting to sail around the world when disaster strikes. Their boat is hit by killer whales and it sinks in seconds. All they have left is a life raft and each other. This is the true story of The Robertson family and their fight to survive, hosted by me, Becky Milligan. Listen to Adrift, an Apple Original podcast produced by Blanchard House. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Looking for your next obsession? Listen to High Key, a bold, joyful, unfiltered culture podcast coming at you every Friday. Now my question is, in this game of Mafia that we're going to play, are you going to do better than me? Say it now. Duh. Period. I'm gonna eat. You're gonna do better than me? I'm gonna eat. Yes. I literally will. Ryan will. I cannot wait till we both team up and get you out and then one of us gets the other out because we didn't realize they were a traitor the whole time and you were actually an innocent. Y' all won't even know that I'm a traitor. This is going to be delicious. Well, thank you for coming to our show. And on that note, thank you for coming to my show. Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, love seat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upload. Upgrade your home sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply at this point. Heritage went into complete damage control. Roberts apologized during a Heritage all hands meeting last Wednesday, November 5th. Quote I made a mistake and I let you down and I let down this institution. Period. Full stop. Unquote. Roberts claimed that it was the since resigned Chief of Staff Ryan Newhouse who wrote the script for Robert's initial video entirely himself and lied about the script being approved by a handful of colleagues. Roberts called the use of the phrase a venomous coalition, a quote unquote terrible choice of words. The Washington Free Beacon reported that Roberts said he was willing to resign, but felt a, quote, unquote, moral obligation to repair the situation and had told the Heritage foundation board of directors, quote, I made the mess, let me clean it up, unquote. During the all hands meeting, Roberts explained that the video came to be because Heritage was under pressure to make a statement that Carlson was, quote, no longer part of the conservative movement, unquote. Later in this meeting, Roberts acknowledged that there could be a, quote, limiting principle to no cancellation. Longtime Heritage research fellow Robert Rector went on a tirade against Tucker and Fuentes, likening Tucker's show to stepping into a lunatic asylum, and advocated for a return of right wing cancellation. Because if you don't have boundaries on who you regard inside the movement, the movement will destroy itself and it will create a PR nightmare for everybody in it. And the boundaries that he set forth, William buckley in early 1960s were twofold. You have to expunge all anti Semitism, all of it, but that's just part of it from the conservative movement. The other is you have to expel the lunatics, okay? The lunatics who think that Eisenhower was a communist, okay? And a whole bunch of. And we have them back now, okay? They are both here, back just the way they were in 1959. And we have to go back and set the general parameters. And you say, oh, we don't cancel. We do cancel. Did we cancel David Duke? Yes. You don't even know who David Duke was. Probably most of you, God say, you know, yes. Did we cancel the John Birch Society? Yes. Okay. Because they were harmful. Because if you're. They're in your movement, you look like clowns. This highlights so much of my frustration around this whole controversy with all of these conservatives at the Leopards Eating People's Faces party. Trying to say that obviously the leopards who are eating people's faces aren't actually conservatives. Despite them being all part of the Leopards eating people's faces party. Bircher ism has achieved a near total capture of the modern day Republican Party, especially under Trump. You can't remove the John Birch Society element from the modern day Republican Party without the whole party collapsing. They won. That's what the party is now. That's what Heritage's Project 2025 is. Kevin Roberts responded to Rector's tirade by continuing to advocate that Heritage should attempt to bring some of Fuentes audience into the conservative fold. But if there's a segment of that audience who might be with us, and they really are not Nazis and anti Semites, then maybe we can eventually bring them into the fold. I think we have to think that way. None of these people can be allowed to distance themselves from the leopards eating people's faces party. To quote a write up from the right wing rag National Review, quote the Heritage staff meeting exposed something of a generational divide within Heritage, as one staffer who claimed to represent the perspective of the foundation's younger employees said that she did not have a problem with Robert's initial defense of Carlson and wanted to make sure that the viewpoints of her generation, who she said were generally more critical of Israel, would still be welcome at Heritage. Unquote. The Heritage Tucker Fuentes debacle has come at a time where the right was already in the middle of a debate over how to handle infighting, conservative anti cancel culture and the newly adopted principle of no enemies to the right. After years of suffering from liberal led deplatforming campaigns during the quote unquote woke era, this debate really came to a head last month after the Young Republican pro Hitler racist group chat scandal dropped, which was subsequently brushed off by people like Matt Walsh and Vice President J.D. vance, who dismissed the texts, telling people who are concerned about it to quote unquote grow up while referring to the chat as a college group chat, calling the members kids and young boys when the group chat in question was made up of men in their 30s. Don't put things on the Internet like be careful with what you post. If you put something in a group chat, assume that some scumbag is gonna leak it in an effort to try to cause you harm or cause your family harm. But the reality is that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes like, that's what kids do. And I really don't want us to grow in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive, stupid joke is caused to ruin their lives. And at some point we're all going to have to say enough of this bs. We're not going to allow the worst moment in a 21 year old's group chat to ruin a kid's life for the rest of time. That's just not okay. Like we live in a digital world. This stuff is now etched in stone online. We're all going to have to to say, you know what, no, no, no, we're not doing this. We're not canceling kids because they do something stupid in a group chat. And if I have to be the person who carries that message forward, I'm fine with it. To quote Matt Walsh quote, I said a few Weeks ago that we all need to band together in the wake of Charlie's death. And the answer I got back from a lot of people on the right was basically no. Well, okay then, guys, we'll just lose. Instead, the left will keep the united front and defend their guys no matter what, while we keep throwing each other to the wolves at every opportunity. Great plan. The left actually wants me dead. Like, specifically and personally. They're the reason why I need security at my house, why I worry for my children's safety. We've had to make major changes to the way we live our daily lives to account for this danger. So when I say that I want to stop the infighting and unite against this threat, that's the context. I'm sorry if the squabbles among right wingers just kind of pale in comparison for me. If you have the luxury to care more about that, I envy you. I truly do. Last week, Megyn Kelly interviewed Tucker and Shapiro across a two day event where she asked both about the possibility of uniting the right. Is there any way that you and Ben Shapiro could. Can actually find your way to detente? I'm not against Ben Shapiro. He did like a 40 minute thing yesterday calling me dangerous and all this stuff. It's like, I didn't watch it because why? But I got a lot of texts about it. It's like, I'm not. I don't think Ben Shapiro is driving a lot of this stuff. I don't consider him like the world's greatest force for evil. I don't feel that way at all. I don't actually think about him ever. So I don't want to have a war with Ben Shapiro. I don't know if. Does he really think that media doing an interview in which I explained that anti Semitism is wrong to one of the lead purveyors of anti Semitism, that that somehow makes me a Nazi. Like, what is the argument here? I'm gonna ask him tomorrow night. No, but I don't even understand what the argument is. All I know is that the right, and I've been on the right since before Ben was born, is acting like the left in such an amazingly precise way that I'm like, what the hell is going on? I agree with Tucker that the right is in fact acting life the left by again massaging its radicals in the name of some sort of faux unity. That sound detanty because. Because again, I'm not again, trying to turn this personal is a mistake. I know. But can it happen during the fallout of the Tucker Fuentes interview, far right influencer Mike Cernovich said, quote, there's a lot of bad faith going on. So this is for those few of you perplexed about the reluctance of MAGA people to ever disavow anyone. We are old and we know it never stops. They will always demand more. Hence, we draw a hard line. It's not our job to be Internet cops, unquote. After trailblazing this rhetoric for the New Right now, Walsh and Vance find themselves in an uncomfortable position. Walsh due to his employer, Ben Shapiro, and Vance because of his future political prospects. In the midst of the Fuentes controversy, Walsh posted, quote, we have a very short window of time where we control Congress and the White House and we have the power to push our agenda forward. We're going to waste this window fighting with each other. We're going to squander everything. I'm furious, honestly, unquote. I have just about had it with Matt Walsh. Matt, you work for this fucking guy. Whose side are you on already? Cut the shit. Matt Walsh. Every day on his show, he goes on Twitter, in his show, and says, this is all just gossip and drama. It ain't gossip and drama. This is the war. Might not be the one you wanted, but this is the one that's going on. So Walsh wants to recuse himself from this and say, hey, man, I just care about America. Hey, fucker, it's happening in America right now. Tucker's an American. Last I checked, this is going on here. We didn't make antisemitism the wedge issue. They did. We didn't make fighting Israel's wars the wedge issue, they did. And Walsh wants to get on Twitter and say, I just don't want to talk about it. I just want to keep taking a paycheck from the worst of the worst. Shapiro, you got to pick a side, and nobody can let him get away with this. As long as you're America first, you. You need to be in his reply saying, no, Matt, you work for Ben Shapiro. Vance's only statement about this debacle reads, quote, the infighting is stupid. I care about my fellow citizens, particularly young Americans, being able to afford a decent life. I care about immigration and our sovereignty, and I care about establishing peace overseas so our resources can be focused at home. If you care about these things too, let's work together, unquote. Compare that to Mike Pence sharing an article critical of Fuentes by the Wall Street Journal editorial board titled, the Right's New Anti Semites. Meanwhile, Nick Fuentes is bragging that he has Vance caught in his groiper squeeze, threatening to Send gripers to 2028 primary states to disrupt Vance's campaign. Much like the groiper war of 2019 targeting TP USA. He's getting squeezed because the gripers are on the one hand saying, hey listen fat boy, we want America first. You want to run for president, we want to hear you say America first. And on the other side he's got his donors and they're saying they're horrible anti Semites. You have to disavow them. You have to forcefully condemn them. Condemn Tucker, condemn the gripers. Now advance condemns the gripers. We are deploying to Iowa. Raise your right hand. I swear I'm gonna move to Iowa and New Hampshire and Nevada and South Carolina and one primary after the next and we will go to every town hall, we will go to every meet and call greet where there's four or five people and we will be there and we'll do it for free. Nick has since laid out a more clear three year strategy for his fans to shape the upcoming presidential primary and infiltrate the next Republican White House. In some ways, I think Ted Cruz is right. This has been a time of choosing. The only problem is that the choice has already been made. The Fuentes interview is already Tucker Carlson's fourth most popular video ever. Just two weeks after its release. Fuentes's quote tweet of Shapiro's takedown video ratioed Shapiro by 120,000 likes. Fuentes last 10 live streams have had an average viewership of over 800,000 people on Rumble, beating Shapiro's average YouTube view count by hundreds of thousands. The New York Times has put out seven pieces on Fuentes, both articles and opinion since the Tucker interview. Plus other related news stories about Heritage and Tucker, which obviously mention Fuentes. Other outlets from the Wall Street Journal to the Washington Post have followed suit. CNN did a five minute and 30 second segment on the fallout of the heritage Tucker Fuentes situation and what it means for the future of the Republican Party. CNN has since done more segments on the issue, including one with Ben Shapiro. Multiple Fuentes segments have also aired on msnbc. Here's a sampling. For once, Donald Trump has remained silent on an issue as well as J.D. vance, who is reportedly personally close to Carlson. It also has opened up an uncomfortable discussion for the GOP about what place people like Nick Fuentes have within the MAGA movement. And now to the brewing war within MAGA over the future of the American conservative movement. It comes as far Right. Influencer Nick Fuentes recently recorded a cordial interview at the invitation of Tucker Carlson that more than 5 million people have viewed. The latest op ed in the Los Angeles Times by our next guest is highlighting this growing division. Contributing writer Matt Lewis contends that some Trump loyalists are now objecting to maga's critic, quote, white power element. Matt joins us now. He's an author, columnist and conservative writer. Matt, the fact that we're even talking about a quote, unquote, white power element is, I think, concerning on its face. But this is also something that's persisted within MAGA over the course of the last 10 years. I mean, I remember covering when Trump himself had dinner with Nick Fuentes at the invitation of Kanye west just a few years ago, November 2022 at Mar a Lago. Why was this not a conversation then and what's changed now? Look, yeah, I think you're totally right. I mean, part of it is that Donald Trump has actually been a really good friend to Israel. I never thought the leopards would eat my face. Sobs Conservative columnist who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party. Even calling Fuentes a quote, unquote, white power figure shows how outdated and out of touch the talking heads and many journalists are. It's not the 80s anymore. White power. What are you talking about? That's not what Fuentes is doing. If you can't recognize that, you shouldn't be talking about it. These talking heads are completely ill equipped to understand Gen Z politics or the lack thereof. We saw this in the reporting on Tyler Robinson and the past few mass killing fandom school shooters. Here's MSNBC again. According to some sources at the Heritage Foundation, a lot of their interns, something like 40 to 50% or something, agree with Fuentes, which is really stunning if you were around the conservative movement, let's say in the George W. Bush era. The fucking George W. Bush era. Unbelievable. Nick Fuentes politically vulgar obscenity is exactly what pushes his clips into people's social media feeds, cutting through the dry neoconservative boomer slop of older Republican content creators. As Trump 2.0 continues and MAGA becomes the establishment again, it's not going to be cool to listen to Benny Johnson, whoever's hosting the new Charlie Kirk show, or Ben Shapiro. To the extent to which listening to any of those is even still cool or countercultural. Fuentes doesn't have this same problem. He can ride the cultural vibe shift of the 2024 election and still appeal to the reactionary tendencies of some young men, but is outside enough to continue benefiting from the Gen Z thirst for anti establishment populism. At the end of last month there was a short article in the Atlantic titled the firewall against Nick Fuentes is crumbling. The white supremacist influencer is entering the MAGA mainstream and yeah, that's correct, the attack agreement against talking about covering or platforming Nick has slowly fallen apart the past few months. Google trends graphs of search popularity has Nick Fuentes high above Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens. And considering Nick's newfound fame, he isn't trying to slow down or moderate his views to appeal to a bigger audience. And he doesn't need to. The audience is coming to him to explain why his audience is growing so much. It's not that he's gotten less ideologically dogmatic as of recent. It's that the zoomer world has caught up to the anti ideology behind Nick Fuentes. The void of animosity that animates Fuentes, which is underneath his gesturing to relics of tradition and culture to offer a North Star through the grievance inspired nihilism he actually embodies. Nick Fuentes is a meme. His clips spread like a meme. His Griper movement is named after a meme. And Nick is ready, willing and able to seize the spotlight he has been gifted to Nick. This controversy demonstrates that the prestigious Heritage foundation is territory ripe for griper infiltration. What this signifies is that Heritage, the accreditation institution, the brain, the priestly class that promulgates to Republican dogma, if that institution says that groiperism is up for debate, it's on the table. It's not canceled. We should talk about the ideas and we should defend the people that defend the gripers or talk to the gripers. It signifies that one, that place is a safe harbor, as I said before. So a groiper could go to work at Heritage and maybe feel welcome and comfortable and he won't be fired. And you might have a groiper at Heritage who is gonna be writing a policy paper about, who knows, foreign policy, education, immigration. They might be considered like an expert and maybe they'll go on to be a legislative director for a senator and they might be writing laws for the US Government. It's conceivable. If the president of Heritage says Tucker is in the big tent, then that means that Tucker and Nick Fuentes sympathizers are allowed to be employed at Heritage and thus they might be in the position to determine the dogma. They can write the doctrine. Conservative writer Rob Drear has claimed based on BC contacts and talking with Gen Z staffers, quote, between 30 to 40% of the Zoomers who work in official Republican Washington are fans of Nick Fuentes, unquote. Writing that this is emblematic of a generation, quote, willing to revel in transgressions such as they tear down the pillars of civilization just for the fun of seeing those who have been gatekept away breaching containment. The groiper thing is real. It is not a fringe movement in that it really has infiltrated young conservative Washington networks to a significant degree. Unquote. After the Young Republican Racist group Chat story dropped, Nick Fuentes said on his show, quote, groipers are all over the government and everyone knows that. There's gripers at Harvard, there's gripers in all the Ivy League schools. I talked to all of them. There's gripers in government, there's grapers in every department, every agency, unquote. There's no reason to believe Nick is exaggerating. This is something he has advocated his followers do for years and stories like the Young Republican Pro Hitler group Chat are evidence of this. Nick Fuentes is Mainstream now. Nick Fuentes is a legitimate part of the mainstream conservative movement even if he doesn't become the quote unquote successor of to his longtime nemesis Charlie Kirk. Fuentes is already on course to be the main figure to have gained the most from Kirk's death and emerged advantageous. This has been It Could Happen Here See you on the other side. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech@lenovo.com Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. 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