Podcast Summary: It Could Happen Here – “To Catch a Fascist: An Interview with Christopher Mathias”
Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Molly Conger
Guest: Christopher Mathias
Podcast Network: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
Episode Overview
This episode features investigative journalist Christopher Mathias discussing his new book To Catch a Fascist: The Fight to Expose the Radical Right with host Molly Conger. The conversation provides a deep dive into the world of anti-fascist (Antifa) activism, particularly the clandestine work of doxxing and infiltrating far-right groups. Through anecdotes, history, and lessons from recent years, Mathias and Conger explore the impact, ethics, and risks of confronting fascist organizations in the U.S.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Genesis and Intent of the Book
- Mathias wrote the book to demystify Antifa for mainstream audiences (“boomer liberals or centrists” [03:52]) and to make radical anti-fascist politics accessible and engaging. He models the book as a “thriller…like a spy narrative” (04:22).
- The approach is intentionally accessible for people unfamiliar or skittish about Antifa tactics, but also rich enough for activists and researchers.
2. Doxxing Nazis: Methods and Impact
- Doxxing (unmasking) members of far-right groups is likened to “investigating your ex’s Instagram account”—a transferable skill many people might unknowingly have ([01:42]).
- The value of leaks (such as Rocket Chat leaks from Patriot Front, provided by the infiltrator “Vincent Washington”) is emphasized for not only exposing members but directly enabling lawsuits (e.g., Klan Act lawsuits, Sines v. Kessler case, etc. [09:19]).
- Anti-fascist leaks have a larger and swifter impact in disrupting fascist organizations than media or law enforcement efforts ([08:24]).
3. The Iconography and Misconceptions of Antifa
- Public perception often stops at “Nazi punching” (e.g., the viral punch to Richard Spencer [09:40]), overshadowing espionage and intelligence gathering, which is the bulk of Antifa’s work ([10:02]).
- Mathias: “Most Americans don’t know that Antifa had so many spies over the last 10 years…They were the hidden hand behind thousands of news stories…” ([07:17])
4. The Social Consequences of Being Outed as a Fascist
- The purpose is less about personal revenge and more about “creating a social cost for being a fascist…leveraging an existing societal taboo against white supremacy to ensure a consequence” ([12:13]).
- Historical parallels are drawn from anti-Klan activism in the 1920s and later, showing the tradition and impact of unmasking hate group members ([14:42]).
5. The Evolution of the Antifa Boogeyman
- The episode chronicles how the right manufactured the notion of Antifa as a nefarious, organized threat—often to shift focus from their own violence or justify repression (e.g., after Charlottesville in 2017, and during the 2020 George Floyd uprisings [26:01], [27:26]).
- The “outside agitator” trope has deep roots, used to undermine legitimate grassroots protest and justify harsh crackdowns ([24:33]).
6. Risks, Retaliation, and State Involvement
- The risks to anti-fascists, up to and including lethal violence (examples cited: murders of anti-racist activists in the ‘90s, recent assassination plots, the FBI's sometimes conflicting role [19:28], [20:25]).
- Anti-fascist activists prioritize community safety over building criminal cases, often stepping in where law enforcement either cannot or chooses not to act ([21:27]).
7. Historical and Modern Case Studies
- Patriot Front Infiltration (“Vincent Washington”): Vincent infiltrated, gathered significant data, and helped expose 80+ members ([08:26]). His physical involvement, trust-earning, and ultimate sabotage are recounted in vivid detail ([41:23]).
- Redbeard Identification: A long-term mystery—identifying a key attacker from the Charlottesville rally—was solved using facial recognition, public records, and digital sleuthing ([46:00]). Mathias details the meticulous process, challenges, and the implications of the find.
- Role of Data and Metadata: The importance and risks of leaving metadata attached to digital evidence, which enabled numerous identifications ([08:24], [54:17]).
8. The Ethos of “We Protect Us”
- The conversation returns repeatedly to the concept that marginalized and targeted communities must organize and defend themselves, as institutional actors often fail to do so ([32:58]).
- “It’s an insurgent form of community self-defense…on very big display right now in Minneapolis” ([34:45]), exemplifying grassroots activism in the absence of official protection.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the accessibility of antifascist research:
“...you once compared the research that goes into doxxing unmasking Nazis to basically investigating your ex's Instagram account...this type of work is accessible if you've done that type of sleuthing.”
— Christopher Mathias [01:42] -
On doxxing’s role:
“The way I always describe it is the digital equivalent of ripping the white hood off of a Klansman.”
— Christopher Mathias [11:56] -
On Antifa’s real legacy:
“The viral videos that catapulted that word into the lexicon kind of obscured the bulk of the work that Antifa was doing, which was espionage and intelligence gathering.”
— Christopher Mathias [10:34] -
On the risks:
“The stakes are lethal. Yeah, right. Like they will, they will kill you back. These organizations can't survive sunshine. And they're so aware of that that, yeah, people have been killed for this.”
— Molly Conger [18:11] -
On government vs. Antifa intervention:
“...we are invested in protecting our communities, not building a case…You're protecting a community.”
— Molly Conger [21:27] -
On “We Protect Us” in action:
“There's this axiom that we talk about a lot in anti fascist spaces…of we protect us. And you know, that is on very big display right now in Minneapolis...”
— Christopher Mathias [32:58] -
On identifying 'Redbeard':
“Like every fat guy with a red beard on the east coast has been identified as Redbeard.”
— Molly Conger [49:50]
— (A lighter moment highlighting the absurd lengths and pitfalls of amateur sleuthing.)
Important Timestamps and Segments
- [01:06] – Introduction to Chris and his book, premise of the episode
- [04:53] – Audience for book, “threading the needle” for different political backgrounds
- [05:14] – Vincent Washington infiltration case, Patriot Front leaks
- [08:26] – Use of leaked data and metadata, impact on lawsuit and identifications
- [11:33] – Social cost of being exposed, taboo of explicit fascism
- [14:42] – Historical anti-Klan efforts, “unmasking” parallels
- [19:28] – The danger of antifascist work, assassination, government/informant complications
- [21:33] – Differences between FBI/law enforcement and anti-fascist infiltration
- [24:33] – The outside agitator narrative, history and manipulation
- [26:01] – Creation of the Antifa boogeyman, policy implications, propaganda
- [32:58] – “We protect us” and grassroots protection
- [41:23] – Vincent’s physical infiltration, gathering evidence in Patriot Front
- [46:00] – Identification of Redbeard, methodology and breakthrough
- [54:43] – Systemic failures of prosecution, implications for justice
- [55:08–56:42] – Reflections, book promotion, closing thanks
Conclusion
This episode provides a rich look at the intersection of activism, investigative journalism, and the history of anti-fascist organizing. Molly Conger and Christopher Mathias break down the stakes and tactics of unmasking the far right, illustrate the power of crowdsourced investigation, and highlight both the dangers and the necessity of community self-defense amid rising fascism and state ambivalence. Listeners come away with a deeper understanding of the mechanics, ethics, and lived reality of anti-fascist activism—past and present.
Further Reading & Action
- To Catch a Fascist by Christopher Mathias (Pre-order from independent, anarchist, or local bookstores)
- Follow Mathias (@letsgomathias) on Bluesky/Socials for updates
- Support trusted community journalism and anti-fascist research
“You don’t know what [‘We protect us’] means until you feel it…Once you have experienced that kind of community solidarity…once you’ve seen it, you know what it means, and nobody’s going to tell you different.”
— Molly Conger [34:09]