← It Could Happen Here
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A
This is an iHeart podcast.
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You're listening to Leaffilter Radio and the guru of gutter protection himself, Chris Counahan is here to take your most pressing leaf related questions. Hey everybody, Chris here. I understand we have Ron on the line. Ron, where are you calling from? Uh oh Ron, are you calling from a ladder? Well, I was. I wanted to ask Chris what I need to do to get my gutters ready to have Leaffilter installed. Oh Ron, you don't have to do anything. A Leaffilter trusted Pro will come out and clean out your gutters, realign and seal your gutters and install Leaffilter Filter, America's number one gutter protection system. So I didn't need to get on this ladder. Ron, Leaffilter Trusted pros are in your neighborhood and ready to help. Just visit leaffilter.comday to schedule your free gutter inspection and get up to 30% off. Thank goodness. What was that site? That's leaffilter.com day for your free gutter inspection today. See representative for warranty details. Promotion is 20% off plus a 10% senior or military discount.
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A
One discount per household. There's a vile sickness in Amberstown. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out from iHeart podcasts and grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. This is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand up but this is a bit different.
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B
What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?
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A
Answer.
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B
A new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story.
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A
Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life.
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This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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A
Media.
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C
Oh, welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast where I just got vaccinated. And boy howdy, the shit this year hits like a fucking train.
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A
It does. I. I got vaccinated. It's, it's, it's a rough one this year.
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C
Oh, man. Yeah, fucking RFK Jr. Was right.
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A
Broadcasting through the vaccine injury today.
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C
Yeah, that's right. I've received my vaccine injury. I'm complaining to the board. Oh, man. I'm gonna nap after this. But first, how about we talk about fucking Trin d', Aragua, the fucking narco criminal group that President Trump is currently justifying blowing up boats in the middle of international waters as a result of.
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A
Yeah, it's great. It's a good thing that we are now killing civilians in countries where we're not at war with. It's great.
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C
Yeah. This has been something Stephen Miller had been talking about since the first Trump administration, you know, and had talked with, like, back when the military was willing to push back against Trump. More people would be like, what do you. What the fuck are you talking about? We can't launch strikes at just, like, random boats. And Steve Miller be like, why not? And now they're doing it.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And this group, this criminal cartel out of Venezuela has been the current justification, as we'll talk about most of what is said about this Trin d' Aragua by the administration about, you know, their role in smuggling drugs in the United States is either just completely invented or massively exaggerated. Yeah, it is a really interesting group. They have a fascinating, like, history. The literal meaning is Train of Aragua. Yeah, Aragua.
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A
Sorry.
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C
And it, it started out with, like, labor unions that were working on a railway project.
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A
Yeah.
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C
That was going to be connecting central and western Venezuela together. And as has happened in history, what started as, like, labor union organizing wound up kind of morphing into direct criminal activity.
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A
Yeah.
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C
The guy who's generally credited as the founder, although that's kind of flattening things a little bit, is Hector Guerrero Flores, known as Nino Guerrero. And he got put in for 17 years for murder and drug trafficking at this prison called Tocaron. Am I. Am I saying that right, James? How do we. How do we.
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A
Yeah, Tokoron. Is there an accent?
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C
Yeah, there's a little accent over the second O.
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A
Does it go up or down?
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C
Up to Coron. Thank you, James. Yeah. And so this. One of the things that's fun about this is that this prison where they start loading these guys up becomes so heavily organized, and it eventually turns from being like a prison in the traditional sense to more being like a tiny, independent city that the gang is based out of. It acted as their fortress. They established, like, nightclubs in it and, you know, luxury facilities. And, like, leaders of the gang more or less came and went as they pleased, went back to their families. And it was not really what you'd think of as a prison in the traditional sense for a lot of these guys. For a while, a payment system was created in order to, like, basically, you would. Inmates would pay for protection or for access to the nicer aspects of the prisoners called the cause. And if you didn't pay, you know, they had various ways of physically abusing you. There's a good article in Small War's journal that talks about the origins and the impact of this group, and it quotes someone from inside the prison as saying, the first time you don't pay, they shoot your wrist. The second time, your ankle the third time, and you face the death penalty. So, like, you're talking, like, pretty traditional criminal gang stuff, right?
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A
Yeah.
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C
So the journey of this group from gang that's major in Venezuela to gang that's kind of operating in larger and larger chunks of South America followed a pretty natural path where they got involved in more kinds of smuggling, in more kinds of trafficking over the years, started setting up operations in other parts of South America. But one of the things that the gang has sort of done is you've. You've got this kind of process by which they have these local affiliates who are not directly associated with the gang in, like, the. The strict hierarchical sense, in that it's not literally the gang sending an official into another state. It's more like franchising is kind of the way things work. And you have different local groups, some of whom are not even connected in any way to the original organization, claiming a line of dissent in order to basically draft off of that clout, you know?
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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C
Which is kind of what you've seen increasingly. And this has led to a situation where there's enough claims of Trin being involved in the United States and other countries that it looks a lot like a larger and more centralized criminal organization than it actually is in reality.
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A
Yeah. I think the state understands these things. Like mini states. Right. Like who. Like, with a. With a leader and a distinct authority structure and like a direct command chain. That is not how my understanding is that they operate. Right. Because they are not mini states there. They are a different entity to that.
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C
Yeah. And what is your. Because you've actually spent time reporting and in Venezuela, when did you first become aware of Tren?
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A
I mean, I became aware of, like, the fact that there were armed gangs and criminal. I mean, I was robbed at gunpoint when I was in Venezuela. Right. So that made me aware that there were people who. Who did crime with weapons. But I wasn't aware, really, of Trend Aragua until, like, maybe the 2020. I mean, I don't report on organized crime, nor do I particularly follow it. Right. But I take an interest in Venezuelan affairs, and as much as I've spent time there, and I have, like, an affinity with the people, and I understand that things are getting going from bad to worse for them and their government, so. So I took an interest. I guess it was like. Are you familiar with the Narco Sobrino affair?
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C
No.
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A
Okay. Narco Sobrino is like narco nephews. I think they're actually step nephews of Maduro, if I recall correctly. It doesn't hugely matter. They're like, part of his family in a mini. And I believe they lived in his compound, and they used, like. I don't want to make statements that are incorrect. I believe they use a presidential hangar or Runway to fly a plane to Haiti, which the USTA alleges. And it is most likely true that that plane was stuffed full of cocaine. Sure.
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C
Many such cases.
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A
Yeah, many such cases. They believe they have diplomatic immunity, which they did not, which I believe came as a surprise to them at the moment of their detention. And so at that point, I was like, shit, we can get onto this. How? The Trump administration has, like, basically alleged that Venezuela is a narco dictatorship. Certainly there is overlap between organized crime and the state.
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C
Right.
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A
It's because the state is so poor and so corrupt that inevitably you will see, like, overlap between organized crime and the state. So I guess, Right. Whenever the Narcos Sobrinos affair was, I was like, okay, I need. I need to sort of be aware of this. And of course, in my, like, coverage of immigration, you hear of people, mostly their talk is just not of that. Their life has been made hard by Organized crime, if I'm honest, so much as their life has been made hard by the government completely failing to provide services and the complete collapse of the Venezuelan economy. You know, I'm not going to ask about it explicitly, but if someone mentions it, I sort of take note of it as one of the reasons why people are leaving.
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C
What you bring up is a really good point, which is that 2014 is kind of when the most recent Venezuelan economic crisis really kicked off. And 2014-2018 was a major period of growth for Tren.
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A
Yep.
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C
And then 2018 to 2022 is when they really started pushing in, up into, and involving themselves increasingly in Colombia and the United States as a result of, like, the increased flow of Venezuelans out of Venezuela and into other countries and eventually up to the US and to. To some extent, and it's been since 2022 that the gang has really been pruned back, you know, both as a result of the Venezuelan government taking control of the prison again and like, basically invading it with the military in order to deny them access to what had been like, their primary centralized, like, hub of control. And also due to the fact that, like, after expansion into Colombia and Chile, both criminal organizations and the governments of those countries increasingly pushed back against the organization. Right.
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A
Yeah.
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C
One of the reasons why they're being targeted, but also one of the things that's like, fundamentally bullshit about the administration's description of what's happening is that we're very much talking about a cartel that's on its back feet and been on its back feet for the last several years as the result of significant reversals in their business and in their political situation.
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A
Yeah. I mean, Colombia. Right. Has been near. The Colombian civil war, is one of the longest running conflicts in the world. But things have changed there substantially. Right. In the last five or seven years. You know, you have people from, from the FARC disarming. You have the fracture of what was previously their territory and some of who were previously their militants into other groups. Right. And so that has allowed the state there to continue its conflict against what remains of that and also to clamp down on other groups. Right. And evidently, like, the flow of drugs to the United States relies on. On the complicity or inability to stop. Stop it of many states. And yeah, we've seen like, a concerted effort and also like the. The attempts of the United States to stop smuggling. Right. So I guess if people aren't familiar, we should just explain the US dhs, of which the United States Coast Guard is part. I think A lot of people aren't aware that Coast Guard is part of DHS claims, a universal jurisdiction or jurisdiction, at least in areas where drugs are being smuggled to the United States. Right. So the US Coast Guard had a role to play in this, in, I guess interdiction is the word they would use of drugs coming to the United States. I probably haven't got data on this in the last year or so, but it certainly was the case that most drugs entering the US Entered through ports of entry as opposed to like between ports of entry. Right. Like through the desert, through the mountains. And so like these, these boats, I guess, are not, just to be clear, they're not necessarily going to the United States in most cases. They're not going to United States in most cases going to Mexico and then moving to the United States through other methods. But like, as the governments both south of the United States and in the United States have adapted, it's become harder and harder for those people. Right. And so it's become harder and harder for these criminal organizations to make money off these drugs.
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C
And that's led to, I mean, a situation that one of the things that they've been accused of being by the Trump administration and internationally is essentially an agent of the Maduro regime. Right. And this is something that certainly the Venezuelan government denies. This is not a thing where I can entirely give you this is exactly what's happening. But it seems accurate to say that as an organization, as their actual control and power have been eroded, they have been utilized increasingly as a way to, for example, deal with like, dissidents who are hostile to the Maduro regime. Right. As a, as a deniable asset. In particular, there's been cases that are reasonably well documented of dissidents against the Venezuelan regime in Chile and Trinity Aragua being used as like, assassins to take out dissidents and foreign countries in a deniable manner. Right, yeah. And I mean, it looks to me like this has kind of increased as their actual ability to directly control things and directly contest the regime as a power center has been eroded.
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A
Yeah, it's kind of a classic. Like, I, I wouldn't say they're like ideologically aligned.
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C
Right.
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A
But. But some, sometimes their interests align.
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C
Yeah.
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To be clear, like Trende Aragua, a one of the sort of armed organized crime institutions in Venezuela, but by far the only one. Right. You have.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Trendeleano, for example, you have these other groups who have also been active in anti government protests, especially since the, I'm going to use that quote, unquote election here. In July of last year. Right. Like where electoral fraud is widely alleged. And I documented that in my daddy and series, if people want to listen to that. But it's not like these two are a lot in lockstep. But yeah, like we can understand that sometimes their interests might align and in those areas it may be beneficial for the regime to, like you say, to, to use them as a deniable asset.
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C
Right. Which does not like. One of the things that's kind of most frustrating is hearing them described as central to the smuggling of fentanyl into the United States. Which like even in kind of the most elaborate version of this group being utilized by the Venezuelan government is fanciful. Right. Like because Venezuela just doesn't have that much to do with the smuggling of fentanyl into the United States. Yeah, like Venezuela and Venezuelan criminal organizations just aren't that involved in that process. That's not where it's coming from. Right.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And we'll talk some more about fentanyl. But first, you know what's kind of like fentanyl advertising?
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B
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A
Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capital1.com for details, there's a vile sickness in Abbas Town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out.
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C
The village is ravaged.
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A
Entire families have been consumed. You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien.
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C
Get back everyone.
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A
He's got dance. And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town. As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Devil walks in Abbostown. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin. So, like it's.
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B
What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start.
- [19:07]
A
Of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.
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B
On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.
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A
On 22 July 2015, a 23 year old man had killed his family and then he came to my house.
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B
So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand up comedy and murder take center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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C
We're back and we're talking about fentanyl. We're talking about like these claims because that's the justification for why we need to airstrike these boats, the most recent of which we know was boarded by another government and had drugs on board. It removed before it was struck.
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A
Oh, wow.
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C
Yeah. And we simply have no idea, no way to verify. I have no way to verify what the administration is claiming about these boats. We're just seeing boats get blown up.
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A
But yeah, and everybody who was on that boat is now dead. So there's not many, many people to contradict that story. Should we explain, like the usual Coast Guard process for interdiction?
- [20:33]
C
Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.
- [20:35]
A
So generally, right, what the US Coast Guard is going to do is they will have these large vessels from which they will launch smaller vessels and helicopters to intercept craft Right. Like the most kind of, I guess, like famous charismatic Colombian, like they call them narco subs. There's a semi submarines, actually that they're not like fully submerged, but they. But much of the vessel is submerged. What the Coast Guard would normally do, to my understanding, is to send a vessel to intercept them. Be a helicopter or a boat or probably both in most cases, I would imagine. Tell them to stop.
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C
Right.
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A
If they don't stop, the Coast Guard will have like a sniper who will shoot out the engine of the craft.
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C
Yeah.
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A
They will then board, they will entertain the people, they will obviously confiscate any drugs that they find. And then they will take those people back to their vessel where they're detained and then they'll be tried in the U.S. right. And then they would normally. They can't kind of scoop up all these ships that they've intercepted or semi subs or whatever, so they will normally destroy those and scuttle them so they sink to the bottom of the ocean. I don't know how many cases they've done this in, but that would be the normal procedure for coast guard, I guess, pre2025.
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C
It's got to be fun being a fish near one of those vessels.
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A
Yeah. I don't know what they do with all the. And sometimes they bring all the cocaine back for a photo op. You see that sometimes?
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C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it looks good.
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A
Yeah. If it's nicely packaged, says cocaine or fentanyl on the side or whatever. That is my understanding of what was done previously. The strikes in the last month have been extremely different. Right. Yeah.
- [22:19]
C
And we're looking at, I think, 14 people killed so far that we've had confirmed. Although those numbers are certainly higher than the. When you're hearing them. Right. Because we've just had another strike in the last day or so that I don't think we have exact numbers on how many people were involved.
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A
Yeah. They used, from what I understand, drones from Special Operations Command to do these strikes.
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C
Right.
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A
Which in itself is quite unusual. And then the strikes themselves consisted of. Did they say what. I guess it looks like a hellfire missile, but I don't know if they've said that.
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C
It looked like hellfires to me on the videos I've seen.
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A
Yeah. It's not exactly like high def video, but. But you see them striking like it looks kind of like a. Like a. It's a speedboat. Right. Like it's a surface vessel. It's not a. Not a semi sub or a submarine. It's unclear what has happened before, at least I haven't seen any reporting on what happened before, whether they got an order to stop. I think in one case they had turned around, having noticed the drone and begun returning towards the coast, towards Venezuela, I guess, and they were still struck. And it appears that in at least one case the drone struck them again. It hit them once and then returned for a second run to hit, I guess, the survivors. Yeah.
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C
And you know, there's a couple of facts that go alongside what we actually know and versus what the administration's claiming.
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A
Yeah.
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C
About 80% of people involved in the smuggling of illegal drugs into the United States are US citizens. And then of the remaining 20ish percent, a chunk of those are resident legal aliens and the chunk are a mix of undocumented people, non citizens whose or people whose status is unknown, or extradited aliens. Right. Like this is based on the United States Sentencing Commission's data from 2024. And about 85% of drugs that are brought into the United States are smuggled in at ports of entry. And this makes complete sense if you think about it, in part because it's pretty easy to track when you've just got like a boat trying to smuggle stuff into the country illicitly and the people who are on that boat, if they aren't citizens, have no right to enter the country inherently. As opposed to citizens who do have a right to enter.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And ports of entry where there's a shitload of. You want to hide in plain sight with this stuff. Right. Like it just makes sense. Like would you rather if you were smuggling a huge amount of illegal shit, would you rather be on your own with a van or a vehicle full of very illegal drugs? Or would you rather be like hiding amongst the billions of tons of shit that gets taken to this country every single year? Right, yeah. Which is why just the reality of the data is, is so completely different than the administration makes it out to be. And obviously foreign criminal organizations are heavily involved in the smuggling of illegal drugs, particularly fentanyl in the United States. But we're talking primarily about like the Sinaloa cartel and then different criminal organizations involved in the smuggling of fentanyl out of China. Right. Which is where a lot of fentanyl comes from, as, as opposed to again, Venezuela. The government here is going for low hanging fruit, I think is the conclusion I'm driven to just every time I read about this is that like there doesn't seem to be a better reason for focusing on this organization, which really is just not that involved in crime in the United States nearly to the extent that groups like the Sinaloa cartel are.
- [25:37]
A
Yeah. I mean, it offers a chance to demonize Venezuelan people. Right. And Venezuelan people made up a large number of the people who came to the United States to seek asylum under Biden. Because like if we do believe that these, like the word in Spanish would be like a mega bandas, like mega gangs are a serious threat to the well being of people in the United States, imagine how much more of a threat they are to the well being of people in Venezuela.
- [26:02]
C
Right, right.
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A
And that combined with a government which objectively sucks and which which also uses extrajudicial violence. Right. Including in, in its battle against these gangs, leads people to want to leave. And when they come here, the United States, especially the Trump regime, has been engaged in this demonization of migrants. Right. This offers a very convenient narrative for that to say that these people are bringing crime here. The vast majority of them are doing the exact opposite. They are coming here because the state in Venezuela has extorted them and slash or non state actors in Venezuela have extorted them. The vast bulk of the complaints I hear from migrants from Venezuela about the state, they have no interest other than working hard and receiving like a decent living wage for that. Yeah. Every Venezuelan person I spoke to, almost by none when I ask what their American dream is, tell you that their American dream is to have a job that pays them enough to feed their family.
- [27:06]
C
Right.
- [27:07]
A
Like we, we have next to no evidence of, of organized crime coming into the United States through the asylum system. There are, sure. There will be like I would imagine a fraction of a single percent of cases. Sure. In which that is the case. But it's being used against all these Venezuelan people. Right. As we've seen. And I guess I should just clarify that like one thing about these megabandas. They're not like maras. Right. Like so like ms.13 being a Mara. Right. Like a gang in which members are identified by certain tattoos.
- [27:42]
C
Oh my God. Yes. This is tattoos and emojis.
- [27:45]
A
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Again, like, like I understand that, that that is a thing that happens in some cases, but that, that is not a thing that is common to these gangs.
- [27:54]
C
No, it's, it's, it's certainly not common to trend. Right. Is like the use of tattoos. There's not even widespread agreement among experts as to whether or not there's any sort of centralized US based hierarchy for the group. Right, right.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah, yeah. Tattooing is just as it is in the United States and lots of other Places around the world. A very common practice in Venezuela that people do for as many reasons as there are people right to include, because they love their mum, because they love their kids, because they like a football team, because they are religious, et cetera, et cetera. That is why people get tattoos. It is not to indicate membership in any organization. No.
- [28:33]
C
And this is something that's verified again, like one of the leading experts on trend is Rana Risquez who wrote a book, the Trend, the gang that revolutionized organized crime in Latin America. She specifically told Noticias Telemundo during an interview. Venezuelan gangs are not identified by tattoos. To be a member of one of these Venezuelan organizations, you don't need a tattoo. You can have no tattoos and still be part of it. You can also have a tattoo that matches other members of the organization. So like again, there's groups and different sort of. Because this is a very bottom up sort of organization which is often the case with criminal groups where like they will, you know, there will be money being passed in one direction or another, but there's not tight control being exercised in a top down manner. You can find groups that have tatt tattoos in common, but it's not a centralized thing that the organization does.
- [29:21]
A
Yeah. And like the Venezuelan state, to be clear, is extremely violent. They have like a special armed police which deals with gangs and organized crime that kills hundreds of people. It would be unwise to be going about in the streets with a like I am a member of a certain gang.
- [29:36]
C
Right.
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A
Tattoo. Right. And so unless you plan to live in some area where you feel completely safe from the state, that would be a very unwise thing to do.
- [29:44]
C
Yeah. And we'll talk some more about things that are unwise. But first it would be wise for you to buy these products.
- [29:57]
B
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C
You're listening to leaffilter radio and the guru of gutter protection himself, Chris Counahan is here to take your most pressing leaf related questions. Hey everybody. Chr. Understand, we have Ron on the line. Ron, where are you calling from? Uh oh, Ron, are you calling from a ladder? Well, I was. I wanted to ask Chris what I need to do to get my gutters ready to have leaffilter installed. Oh, Ron, you don't have to do anything. A leaffilter trusted pro will come out and clean out your gutters, realign and seal your gutters and install leaffilter, America's number one gutter protection system. So I didn't need to get on this ladder? Ron, leaffilter trusted pros are in your neighborhood and ready to help. Just visit leaffilter.comday to schedule your free gutter inspection and get up to 30% off. Thank goodness. What was that site? That's leaffilter.com day for your free gutter inspection today. See representative for warranty details. Promotion is 20 off plus a 10 senior or military discount. One discount per household.
- [31:57]
A
There's a vile sickness in Abbas town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out.
- [32:07]
C
The village is ravaged.
- [32:08]
A
Entire families have been consumed. You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien.
- [32:17]
C
Get back everyone.
- [32:18]
A
Let's go Nats. And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town. As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The devil walks in in Abbostone. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mum is a cousin. So, like, it's not.
- [33:05]
B
What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start.
- [33:10]
A
Of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand up, but this is a bit different.
- [33:18]
B
On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.
- [33:23]
A
On 22 July 2015. 23 year old man had killed his family and then he came to my house.
- [33:36]
B
So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack where stand up comedy and murder take center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [34:00]
C
We're back. And I want to quote from a recent piece in the Guardian on the US law enforcement claiming that emojis signal membership in this organization. This is by Sam Levin and Manvi Singh from September a couple of days ago.
- [34:14]
A
Yeah.
- [34:14]
C
The first reference to emojis in the records comes from a July 2024 situational awareness alert from the NYPD which was distributed to law enforcement across the country and warned of trend threats in New York City. NYPD Intelligence and Counterterrorism Bureau has observed members of TDA and New York City using social media messaging platforms such as Instagram and TikTok to depict allegiance to the gang. Neil said TDA members often utilize emojis such as trains, ninjas, slot machines, double swords, shields, ogre face mask and crowns. Members also use South American slang and Arabic language terms to mask their identities on social media. They've cited the NYPD tattoos featuring Michael Jordan fucking ninja emojis. You're telling me that that's, that's a TDA symbol? That's not just something people use?
- [34:56]
A
Like, yeah man, this is like there is a large Arab or population of Arab descent in Venezuela. That's where these slangs come from. Like people use emojis particularly in this context because their education has not been the best. Right. Like their access to, to literacy is, is less than it would be in other contexts. So like sometimes they use emojis, sometimes they just use them because it's funny. But like the notion of like and yeah, people will use slang, people will spell shit the way they say it. Sometimes when I'm talking to Venezuelan people, you know, if I'm, if I'm talking to a source and they, sometimes I have to read it aloud to help me understand what they're saying. Yes, that is very common to people in Venezuela. There's nothing to do with being a member of a gang whatsoever.
- [35:39]
C
Yeah. And I mean there's a lot of that in terms of like the, the fact that the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan are popular among immigrants. Right? Like that, that's particularly Venezuelan immigrants. And a lot of it comes from like, well A lot of Venezuelan immigrants tend to like these things in media, tend to like these musicians and get tattoos that reference these things in popular culture or these things, you know, that, that different Venezuelan artists have put out. And that's, I mean it's certainly not a sign that like, oh, these things signal membership in this criminal organization and more they're just targeting Venezuelans. And these things are more common among Venezuelans but not, certainly not exclusive to that group. When you're, when you're saying that like a Michael Jordan shirt or tattoo is a symbol of membership in a criminal, criminal organization. Well, I guess like a third of my high school were criminals. I mean they were, but not in this way.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah, like these are very common. Like the Jordan logo. I don't know what it's called at the Jumping Jordan logo. Not a big sports wear fan myself, but like, yeah, it's very common. It's because people buy fake designer apparel all the time. Like you will also see people, tons of people with Louis Vuitton items. They're not real. It does not indicate membership in any gang. It's just kind of an aspirational thing that you can buy any almost anywhere in Venezuela because no one's going down there to enforce copyright laws. Like it's not a, it doesn't indicate any affiliation. Sometimes it indicates like a, an interest with the United States.
- [37:10]
C
Right.
- [37:11]
A
Like, like that. These are where these things come from and this is a place where these people would like to go. I also saw a guy across Darien Glap in Nike Alpha Flies like the, the super fast marathon running shoes with a giant carbon plated spring. Like this is not like indication of anything other than that. Like this person thought those were cool and they purchased them.
- [37:31]
C
Yeah.
- [37:32]
A
Are you familiar with this Cartel de los Soles thing?
- [37:35]
C
No.
- [37:36]
A
Okay, so the Cartel de los Soles, the Cartel of the Sun. Of the Sun, I guess it's another organization which the US is alleging that Maduro is head of. Right. It's a vertically organized organization and that Maduro is literally the chief of it. And I guess I just want to say the same shit applies, right. There are gangs all over Caracas as well. These names we haven't mentioned. What you've got here is state failure. Right. Like in Venezuela, the state has failed to provide people with services and it does not always enjoy a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. You also have massive corruption. So it is absolutely the case that people smuggling drugs through Venezuela will be able to buy off certain officials. Right. Particularly like military commanders and people who have control over transit and border areas. It doesn't imply, like, a vertical structure, per se, to be clear. Like, I don't think Maduro should be in charge of Venezuela. I think the Maduro regime is bad for Venezuela and bad for the world. But, like, it's very oversimplified to see it, like, straight up as, like, a narco regime. Right. Like, there is more to it than that. This is the country that sits on masses of oil. This is a country that has been incredibly corrupt from an incredibly long time now. And you're always going to see these organizations creeping into the government.
- [39:09]
C
Right.
- [39:10]
A
When the government can't even pay its own people or guarantee them a decent and dignified quality of life. That doesn't mean that it is okay to just kill first and foremost. I would imagine that if we go with the government story that the boats that they struck were carrying drugs. Right. It is unlikely that the people who were carrying those drugs were anything other than poor, desperate young men who wanted a chance at a better life and. Or were intimidated into doing this.
- [39:41]
C
Right.
- [39:41]
A
And maybe some of them chose to do this because they thought this was the way they could get money and progress in a place that doesn't offer them many opportunities. These are not the people who are in any way, like, making the calls, making the decisions. Right. And so killing them isn't going to do very much because there is a massive supply of poor, desperate young men in Venezuela, and it's not gonna change anything to. To kill 14, 15 of them other than it will, obviously. It's a tragedy for those families. Right. There's people who lose their children or whatever. Yeah. And so, like, I know until we solve the situation, that life is untenable for people in Venezuela. Yes, there will be crime there, and yes, people from there will want to come to the United States. Both of those things make sense. That does not mean that people coming to the United States are coming to the United States to do bad things. The vast majority of them are coming to the United States to escape bad things. We've had so much discourse about Venezuelan people and crime, even in the, you know, this is begun, I think, in Chicago in the Biden administration. I have not seen journalists of whatever political stripe talk to Venezuelan people about this.
- [40:56]
C
Right.
- [40:57]
A
Like, with very few exceptions, it's very easy to find Venezuelan people, especially, you know, if you work at the border and you do border reporting. But even still, you know, lots of these Venezuelan people went to Denver, some of them went to Chicago, some of them went to the Springs in Colorado. Many of them went to Texas. They went to all kinds of places when they came to the United States. Right. If you speak Spanish, it's not hard to find these people and ask them, what's it like in Venezuela? Why did you come here? And then perhaps you can, you know, establish a picture of. Yeah, it's pretty shit, right? People work hard every day and don't make enough to feed their family if their kid is sick, if their elderly parents can't work and need support, it's really hard to do that. That is why they want to come to the U.S. that is why often young men want to come to the U.S. right? Because the world as it is gives them the highest level of economic opportun. And so the family will send them to the US Such that they can earn enough money and they hope one day to bring their families here. Sometimes you also see people bringing their very young children because they realize there's no future for their children in Venezuela. So they make the choice to try and come to somewhere which once promised a future for hard working people and doesn't really anymore. But it pains me so much to see this discussion of Venezuela without Venezuelan people, most of whom I found to be wonderful. Like, I spent a good amount of time in Venezuela and even longer with Venezuelan people and I have a great affection for them. Like they've been nothing but kind to me. Even now, like a year after I was in the Darien Gap, I get texts all the time from Venezuelan people. The majority of them not asking for help, just asking how. I am asking, do I know what happened to the Bolivian girl? Do I know what happened to Zimbabwean women? Like, genuinely concerned even amidst a really shit situation for them, concerned for the well being of other people. And I just wish instead of talking about, yeah, the hundreds, maybe thousands of Venezuelan people who are involved in moving drugs to the United States, we could talk about the millions of people who just want to work hard and have a decent life and who are being denied a chance to do that at home and are now being denied a chance to do that here as well.
- [43:15]
C
Yeah, well, I think that's about it for our episode today. Till next time, folks. I don't know. Best of luck out there.
- [43:25]
A
Yeah.
- [43:29]
C
It could happen. Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can now find sources for. It could happen here listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.
- [43:48]
B
There's nothing like sinking into luxury@washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slip covers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visitors visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [44:48]
A
Ugh.
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C
Come on.
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B
Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
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A
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B
This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meats World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack and he traded it for a Mott's Applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no Sugar Added Applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch. Perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win Win. Make sure your kid wins snack time with Mottz. Real apples make real good applesauce.
- [46:07]
A
Learn more@mots.com Honestly, honestly, honestly.
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C
No one wants to think about HIV, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it.
- [46:15]
A
Things like prep. Prep stands for Pre Exposure Prophylactic and.
- [46:19]
C
It means routinely taking prescription medicine before.
- [46:21]
A
You'Re exposed to HIV to help reduce.
- [46:23]
C
Your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed.
- [46:27]
A
It doesn't protect against other STIs, though.
- [46:30]
C
So be sure to use condoms and.
- [46:31]
A
Other healthy sex practices.
- [46:33]
C
Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options, and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.
- [46:38]
A
Sponsored by Gilead, this is an I Heart podcast.