← The Brian Buffini Show
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- [00:03]
A
Welcome to It's a Good Life, the podcast for entrepreneurs where it's all about growing yourself and your business. Here's your host, founder of America's largest business coaching company, Brian Buffini. Well, the top of the morning to you. Welcome to It's a Good Life. I am fired up to be with you today. You know, in the world of business, the ability to be able to ask questions and connect with people seems to be a lost art. And I started brainstorming with Bill Hampton and many of you know Bill, and Bill helps me with all of our guests at our events and so on and so forth. And Bill and I have this mutual friend. In fact, Bill and our guest are probably best of friends. His name is Ken Coleman and I've known Ken for 15 years. Best selling author, nationally syndicated radio host. He's been on our podcast before. He's had a number of different great books out there. But he started a new show called Front Row Seat. It's a podcast which I had the pleasure of joining a few months back. And I went, whoa. My friend Ken is in the sweet spot here. He is an interviewer's interview. He knows what to ask, he knows the next question to ask. And as a guest on his show, he asked me questions I'd never been asked before. I gave answers for a guy who talks for A Living for 30 years, I gave answers I never gave before. And we had clips that went viral. I think we have. One of the clips went to 12 million views. I tell him I saw myself on that clip. One of the clips. I decided to lose 20 pounds after watching the clip. But what that heavyset guy said was really smart. I just needed to be a little better shape. So I couldn't be more thrilled to introduce you guys today to Ken Coleman and also excited for all of you who, if you've joined us on our Buffini Coaching live. These are these virtual events that are in this, I call it the death star of this amazing, amazing technological experience where we're able to bring you right into the studio and we're able to come right into your home. And in January 22nd, we're going to be starting the year off to trying to help people have the best version of yourself so you can have your best year. It's called Best you best Year. We'll be kicking off the year. We're going to have Ken Coleman, who is the best interviewer, I believe, in America today. He's going to conduct a powerful conversation with Dr. Henry Cloud and John Acuff and Myself and to really talk about the psychology of success, to really talk about high performance habits and talking about how to get off the year to a great start. So you absolutely won't want to miss it. So today, I hope when you listen to this, you listen back. I hope you take notes because I believe right now the dying art of conversation, the dying art of taking tremendous interest and focus on other people is being eroded from our culture where everybody's talking, nobody's listening. And this is a man I greatly admire. He's demonstrated for many, many years. His name is Ken Coleman, and we're going to talk today about how to ask the right question and how to connect with people in a different way. Ken, we're great friends. I wrote down some questions. So we didn't just chat, you and I, because you and I could go for hours and forget there's an audience. But thanks for taking the time today to be on the show.
- [03:10]
B
It's my favorite show to be on. I love just listening to you talk. You could read the phone book and I would be mesmerized. So, always happy to talk to you, my friend. And this is one of my favorite things to talk about. So, really excited.
- [03:23]
A
Well, you're really good at it. In fact, years ago, and I know you used to kind of blush with this when you first came on the scene years ago, they called you our generation's Larry King. And again, we get the hyperbole and so on so forth. And it's been interesting over the last 15 years. I'm like, he kind of is. So I know that was how the hype machine built you up and whatever else. But you just gifted in this area. You're doing it every day. You interview the who's who of everybody. You know, Peter Drucker, who lived right here in San Diego, he said the important and difficult job is not to find the right answers, it's to find the right questions. Just philosophically. Tell me, why are questions so powerful?
- [04:03]
B
Because they unlock the answers that we need. Now, that's a super, super simple answer until you actually think about it. When we ask a question, we have to remember that even as adults and busy professionals or stressed out professionals, stressed out parents, whatever it is, whatever context of life, we can't forget that a question as an adult still is the question of a child. And for all of us who are parents or grandparents, we're reminded about the beautiful wonder of curiosity that we see hardwired into every human. One of the things we don't have to teach kids is to say no. At some point, they just stick their will out and say no with some anger. Right. We also don't have to teach a child to ask questions. And so we know from research that toddlers can ask up to a thousand questions a day. And are they doing it to irritate us? We all know the answer to that. No. What are they really doing? Well, these are little human beings who have very little context to life.
- [05:11]
A
So everything is wonderful, full of wonder. Yeah.
- [05:14]
B
And I don't mean wonderful as in we use wonderful as an adjective to say, oh, this is fabulous. I'm talking literally, I wondered, mommy and daddy, why do we do this? Or why do you want me to do this? And it comes and it gets irritant. And every parent can confess to being irritated by this insatiable desire to know why. And so we need to understand that questions are the keys to unlocking any door. We need to walk through wisdom, knowledge, to connect with another human being. You want to unlock another human being, ask them really good questions about them, their favorite topic, and watch somebody get so comfortable that you are interested in them that at some point they go, oh, I should probably be interested in them. And then they reciprocate. And so a question is a key to unlock the possibilities, to unlock the answers that we need in life. If it's the greatest tool there is, you could call it a key. You could call it a scalpel. In my line of work, I am using a question as a scalpel because I am trying to dig and to maneuver into some depth. When I sit with somebody like you, you have so much wisdom and so much knowledge. And so there's a responsibility on me, to my audience to make sure that I get the best of Brian Buffini out. And the only way to do that is with very, very good question. So on the surface, questions are the keys that open up all opportunities for our future, future growth, future relationships. I don't care what it is. Questions are the keys.
- [07:03]
A
Wisdom, knowledge, and connection. Right. Those are three things where, yeah, we're a world drowning in information and starving for wisdom. This is kind of the $50 question, talent or skill? Now, it's applied everywhere. You obviously have a talent in this area. You came out of your mother's womb asking these questions. There's no doubt about it. But there's people who may not have the talent. Can they develop the skills? So I'd like to go back to you. When did you know you had this talent, and how did you work on your skills?
- [07:32]
B
I probably first became cognizant of the talent in high school because I would ask questions in, in only your classes, by the way, that I was interested in. So you never saw me ask a question in math or science because that part of my brain's completely dark. I'm going to donate my brain to science because I really believe it's completely. No wavelength over there on that side, but like grammar or maybe a history class, certainly Bible philosophy classes, speech classes. I first realized that I was probably a little bit above average because I would ask questions of my teachers and it would either stump them or they would say, wow, that's a really good question. And you know, then. And then my peers are kind of looking at me, you know, and it's. First it's like, you know, all me and the jocks, you know, the basketball, they look, are they making fun of me or they. Oh, no, they think it's a good question. That's when I first probably remember going, I'm asking things that other people aren't. Now that's a. Now that. What's interesting about that part is, is that wouldn't you ask a really good question? In fact, the greatest compliment that a professional like me can get is not, Ken, you did a great job. What a great job on the interview. That's actually not a great compliment. The greatest compliment that I can get in conducting an interview is when somebody says to me, you asked the questions that I was wondering. You asked the questions that I would want, want to ask. And so I think that it wasn't always that I was asking the question that no one else could ask. I was asking the questions that no one else would ask. So that's when I first realized early on, oh, there's something here. And people kind of react when I ask questions. But I didn't. There wasn't any great forethought there. It was just, oh, okay, so how.
- [09:27]
A
About the skill development? If you look back at yourself today and obviously it's a ton of reps, right? 10,000 hours, whatever you want to talk about. But you look back on yourself 15 years ago and how you asked really good questions. But today it's just at another level. How do you think someone can develop this skill? What have you done to develop your skill?
- [09:45]
B
So I got thrown into a situation, so grateful for this, but John Maxwell, many years ago started a leadership conference called Catalyst. And it was at that time it was the premier leadership conference, certainly in the evangelical faith based world. But we had secular speakers and it was business people and CEOs were coming to this thing, 12,000 people. And I got thrown into a situation where I was going to interview Coach Tony Dungy in front of 12,000 leaders. And I knew coming from a church world where my dad was a pastor and I'd worked for John Maxwell for years, I knew how critical leaders are. They're just naturally critical when they're sitting out there. A lot of these men are, and women were great communicators themselves. And so they're sitting out there. And I knew going into this that if I'm going to interview Tony Dungey and get something out of him that is going to help these people that are.
- [10:32]
A
And he's a brilliant guy, but not an easy guy to interview.
- [10:35]
B
He's not easy. And so. But I had this pressure, Brian, where I knew, okay, I got to bring it. I can't just go into this thing and shoot from the hip and get something valuable out of him that these great communicators are going to be able to use. So I started to go, okay, I got to figure this out. I had never done an interview in front of that large of a crowd and not done a whole bunch of interviews at that point. And so I remember to this day, this is a process that I teach. And this is the answer to how can somebody. What did I do to get better? And how can you get better? I remember sitting down and I. On a. On a legal pad, old school, with a pencil. I still write with a pencil. Cause I can erase. And I wrote down Tony Dungy interview. And I underlined it. And then I sat and thought. And then I began to think, what does the audience want to know? And then I wrote another question. What does the audience need to know? Those are two very different things. And then I wrote, what can Tony Dungy provide to the audience in both of those categories? So what do they want to know? All right, it's a leadership conference. They want to know how to lead better. And what could Tony Dungey tell them about leading 53 millionaires in the NFL that they can translate to their situation? That's. That's what they want to know. Then you got your sports fans, certainly football fans, they want to know some insider baseball stories. So that was pretty clear. And I began to say, okay, okay. And then I said, well, what do they need to know? And so this is where we go a level deeper. And sometimes I refer to this when I'm talking about interviews, I'm always trying to go four or five levels deeper. And so instead of asking Tony Dungy, a question about what makes a good leader. You know, okay, I think a next three or four levels deeper question is, well, these. What do these leaders need to know? Well, they need to know how to develop a great culture on their team. They need to know how to lead in uncertainty. They need to know. And I began to just write out what's Leadership 101? And. And then I was able to go, oh, well, now that's going to inform what I'm going to ask Tony Dungy, because Tony Dungy is taking a new group of 53 guys every year. I mean, you're keeping your stars. Peyton Manning's coming, and Edan James are coming for the next seven, eight years, and you're going to resign. But. But we all know how NFL training camps work. I mean, you're bringing in maybe 20 new guys on a low end. And so it's a completely new team, same system. And so that. That's a question you can ask. So if I ask Tony Dungy, hey, I want you to talk to these leaders today about developing a culture that is 53 millionaires who were all fricking studs in college and they were super studs in high school, and now they're coming together as one unit, and we have one clear goal, and it's the super bowl or bust. How do you do that? And what can these. That's a question. So I wanted to give you a specific answer instead of just theory.
- [13:33]
A
I mean, what that does, it frames, perspective, context, and then specificity, right? I always say, if you want to be terrific, you got to be specific.
- [13:42]
B
That's it.
- [13:42]
A
And so you create, like, even the context of framing. At 53 millionaires, most people don't always think about it that way. It's like, oh, yeah, if I think about my own company, you know, oh, okay. So there's ego with that, there's position with that. There's effort. Oh, this guy's made his money. Why does he want to put his body at risk? Like, that little phrase creates a word picture, right? It's of context. And then you talk about the new people, you bring that freshness to it. Next thing you know, he's gone. Well, I've never been asked that question.
- [14:08]
B
Before, which, by the way, that's my goal in every interview, by the way, is to get somebody to go.
- [14:13]
A
For sure.
- [14:13]
B
I haven't. You did it once in our interview. You said, I haven't shared this before. And that's when I go, oh, and. And. And that's what we're trying to do. Remember, I'm in a context, folks, of doing professional interviews. But Brian knows this. I don't treat it as an interview. I'm trying to have a great conversation, and I am trying to learn on behalf of my audience. But in your context, if you are interviewing a client as you meet him for the first time, or maybe you're walking through a house, I mean, this is gold. You ought to be thinking, okay, I'm having a conversation in the context of an interview. And if I have my conversations with my clients in the context of an interview, in other words, I'm trying to drive somewhere to get specific information, not just for me, but ultimately for them. You know, I think realtors can. Can are the ne. I mean, you think about a lawyer, you get in trouble in the court of law for a leading question. But a leading question in my world and a leading question in your client's world, that's gold. Because so many times, like, a Tony Dungy is not honestly, and I say this with mad respect, he's not a great communicator. And so he's a quiet guy. He gives short answers. And so even in the illustration you just mentioned, when I said 53, I'm leading Tony Dungy to a place where he's following me. And he goes, oh, I know what Ken's trying to get out of me. And that's the secret to a great question, is you take the person that you're asking the question to to the place that you want them to go to, to then give you what only they can give, Right?
- [15:48]
A
I made my bones early on in the real estate space. I'd sit down with a customer who'd interviewed an agent before me the night before. And of course, a lot of times the agents would say, you know, they talk about themselves and they talk about what they're going to do and this and any other. And I would sit down with a yellow pad, a pen, and I'd go, if I could wave a magic wand, you know, what does this look like? And I'd get them. They kind of given me their hope. Like, just, best case scenario, paint the picture. It's 30 days. It's 90 days after your transaction. Have you moved into your new home? Tell me, like, you're having a party, your client, your friends are over. What does that look like? And the next thing you know, people who are kind of, you know, they felt like it was an IRS audit, they open up and you get that. And then I'd say to them, what's your biggest fear or concern about this upcoming transaction. And they would just tell me word for word how to serve them. Well, you know, we had an agent before and they just didn't stay in contact with us. And so let me ask you, what would be great regular contact for you? Like if typically I call all my sellers every Friday morning, would that be good for you? Would you like to hear from me? You know, if, obviously if we have an offer, I'm going to call you right away. You know, text call, what's the best way? And so the next thing you know, they're tailor making their experience, they have all the answers and then I repeat it back to them and they go, man, being heard is the great, great connector for human being. Like I felt heard. And the second part is being interested so that somebody actually slows down their world enough. And in the interview world, you know, again, I've experienced this with you many times, but in the interview world, I've done so many interviews, I get the feeling this person's either a trying to advance their career, they're selling something, or they're just barking the time and they're moving on to the next. You know, when I did my book tour with the Emigrant Edge, you know, I did the whirlwind all around Kingdom Come and you know, you know what you're getting. You walk into these newsrooms and whatever else and not a clue, not a clue. And it's just like rubber stamp onto the next. So you go in there, as you well know, you've done a bunch of national TV stuff, you do it all the time. You go in with your one liners, you go in with your presentation. Because they're not going to ask it, you know, they're not going to ask it. You're going to do it. When you're trying to make a connection with somebody, whether it's in an interview format, whether it's in your backyard doing a barbecue, what's your frame of reference? Where do you come from mentally, emotionally, spiritually? When you really want to connect with somebody, what's that mindset you have?
- [18:06]
B
Yeah, well, I want to, I want to hear something interesting about them. Something that I. Something that I don't know. And so instead of a bland question, you know, how are the kids doing? I mean, I see guys when the guys do this all the time. Guys are the worst at this, right? Like our wives are so great at this. The wives go deep so fast. So in the situation that you're giving me a lazy question Is. Yeah, back to school. How are the kids doing? That's. That's. You're not. That's. You're not getting anything interesting out of that.
- [18:37]
A
You don't even want it. I don't think that's fine.
- [18:40]
B
I don't care. If I'm being honest, I don't care. So in a situation, a new guy pops in, we're in the backyard, and I'm gonna go, hey, so tell me, describe for me what a normal day at work looks like for you. That's a. That's one example. I'm not going to that every time. But I'm. I'm gonna ask. Hey, this is one of my favorite ones, actually. This actually works better. I'll say if you can only use one word and you can change it five minutes from now so there's no right or wrong answer. You can only use one word to describe you as a professional. What is it? That's a fun one because it makes them think. Most people aren't giving me a one word answer right away. But, man, when they think about it and they go, that's really good. I mean, I facilitator. And then I go, why'd you choose that? Now, like, see what's happening right there is. They go, dude, by the way, they're not thinking this cognitively, but later they will feel. They feel this, but they don't think this. But here's what they're feeling. Wow, this guy's not mailing it in. This is. Dude, just threw me a really nice, easy fastball. But a fastball, because I had to think about it. Like, Ken actually is interested in knowing something about me. That's a good. And so I want them. I want to get something interesting out of them, which requires, by the way, remember, back to what do I want to know? What do I need to know? And I want to revisit that real quick because I got into story mode, but it's part of this answer. So. So I created a framework for when I interviewed Brian Buffini for what is. What does the audience want to know? What do they need to know? And then what can Brian give them to answer those two things? Flip that to becoming a better question asker. How did I develop the skill? Because even in a personal format, I'm still. Now I'm going, what do I want to know? Because I would show up in green rooms, Brian. Before I was doing interviews, I was working for John Maxwell. I'd show up in greens with Jim Collins. And. And the first time I Employed. This was. I was in the Catalyst Green room with Jim Collins and I was so excited to meet Mr. Good to Great. And I'd never interview him before, and I know I'm going to get a chance to meet him. Very small group of people in there. You've been in those rooms a billion times. And I know someone's about to introduce me to him, and I'm moments away from this. And you mentioned Bill Hampton earlier. He knows the story. And I'm sitting there going, wait a second, I got a chance to talk to Jim Collins right now. If I go up to him, everybody else that's met him in front of me has just said, hey, Jim, I'm a big fan of your work. And he's being really nice. And he's like, thank you. No connection with Jim Collins. Collins. And I realized I got a shot. So I went up and I asked Jim Collins a question and I asked him a really good question. And I said to him, I go, when you did your research for Good to great, how the mighty fault, what was one piece of the research that you absolutely were gobsmacked by? You didn't see it coming. Now that right there is a. I'm looking for something interesting from him. And because I'm. So I said to myself, real quick, what do I want to know? I kind of want to know something different that maybe, maybe nobody else knows. So it becomes a good story and something I can learn from. I got one shot with Jim Collins. I got to make it count. If I come to and say, man, I really love your book. Nothing. He didn't get anything. I didn't get anything. What are we doing? We're wasting our oxygen. So what do I want to know? And so I want to know something interesting. And guess what happens? Then I formulate an interesting question. You cannot get an interesting answer without an interesting question. So this is all really intentional. You're a guy who preaches intentionality. I got better as an interviewer, and I'm a good question asker because I'm very intentional. Extremely intentional. Even the ad lib questions.
- [22:23]
A
Well, being intentional with people is probably one of the greatest things we can do in life. I mean, just personally, just developmentally, professionally, just being genuinely interested in a world that is trying to transact everything.
- [22:35]
B
Yes.
- [22:36]
A
You know, so this particular conversation we're having is liquid gold. You know, this is your profession now. Again, even the. So many people have shows now, podcasts and whatever else as part of their business, which is fine and sometimes very beneficial, but there's so much talking and so little listening. And you know, for me, like one of the great things I have, I can't wait to do my work because I learned so much. I'm just a personal growth junkie. That's why I'm no longer a house painter. You know what I mean? It's like, take that, curiosity, learn. I love to know what makes people tick and I love to know why they become successful at what they've done. I'm curious for you, and I know there's a multiple way you can go with this answer because sometimes it's about profile and the nerves that come with that. Give me a few of your favorite interviews and why Coach K, legendary Hall.
- [23:23]
B
Of Fame Duke coach. Because he was the first interview I ever did. You want to talk about God's hand in my life and what am I doing here? I don't have time to unpack the entire story. But I was not the. I was not the primary person. I was the backup and for a big Maxwell simulcast. And first of all, it was my first interview. I grew up admiring him. I love the game of basketball more than any sport. And so it had all of that to it. But then he. 30 minutes in. This was so long ago, Brian. This is when you had tapes and you had to change the tape. This is. So we had like a two minute thing while the guys changed the tape and he leaned forward and he smacked me on the knee. And he goes, you're doing a really good job. He goes, I'm enjoying the hell out of this. And I was like.
- [24:04]
A
And that was the first time you breathed in 30 minutes?
- [24:07]
B
Yeah, 100%. I was still nervous and. And so he transferred belief into me. Cool story, I gotta tell you this. And I've got the footage of this that if I'll ever remember, which I never will, but it'd be fun to show you sometime when we're hanging out. I had the crazy opportunity at Entree Leadership Summit two years ago where he was a speaker and I was going to get a chance to interview him after he spoke. And it was 20 years to the month. 20 years, same month. And I put the picture up on the screen. The crowd was just like, oh, my gosh, young Ken and much younger coach. And I had the opportunity to thank him for speaking belief into me and endorsed my first book. Called me one of the best interviews in the country. So that, that's certainly for that reason. I think the first time I interviewed Mike Rowe was probably one of my all time favorites. Because Mike Rowe. To know Mike is to love Mike, because Mike is probably one of the top five conversationalists on the planet. Like just a.
- [25:08]
A
A voice of God dude.
- [25:09]
B
I mean, yeah, the voice helps, but you take away his voice and. And Mike's one of the great storytellers of all time. And you're up there. I mean, you're a great storyteller. Mike's great. Mike is a guy that no matter what you ask him, he does answer what you ask him. I find that a lot of people that I interview, they're big names. I won't mention any of these because I'm never negative on anybody I've ever. But I've interviewed some big shots that will not answer the question that I ask them. And they're not politicians. I expect that out of those clowns. But Mike's just such a. He's the real deal. And because I love everything in threes, Anytime I'm talking to my buddy Pat Lynchioni, think Pat Lynchioni is probably one of the best answer givers on the planet. Pat is obviously a phenomenal communicator. You know him? Well, he's now my neighbor, lives one street over, and we hang out in the neighborhood, which, by the way, one of the great privileges life is when Pat Lynchion, he calls you on a Thursday evening, goes, hey, kid, last minute, you want to grab dinner in the neighborhood tonight? You know, and it's like, is this real?
- [26:19]
A
But I've listened to your interview with him. Now, I've had Pat at many of our events. We're great friends. I've had meetings with Pat that went late into the night. Yeah, he has more tangents and more squirrels. He is excitedly going so many different directions when I watch your interview with him. You keep him on a very disciplined rail.
- [26:37]
B
I do.
- [26:37]
A
Without him really ever seeming to know it. But he seems to like the journey that way, too.
- [26:42]
B
He does. And what I'm doing with Pat is I give him a very, very specific question. I hand it to him like it's a sandbox, and it gives. It gives him room. And I got to mention this. I don't want to spend any time on this. Thank you for the question. But I will mention this, and some people get angry about this, but you're going to suspend your politics for a second. But one of my favorite areas was George W. Bush because he. Because first of all, he's a gentleman. Well, whether you like his policy or not, that man is a gentleman. And he's so kind. And I'm telling you this for your audience. It was 2021. So Covid was still a thing. And we were in Dallas, Texas, and he agreed to do the interview under two conditions. One, I had to get Covid tested that morning. And two, the seats had to be 10ft apart. And, you know, that was Secret Service. And I thought it was the biggest bunch of crap in the world. Don't get mad at me. I don't care if you do. And I said, sure, I'll do it. And so they also said, Brian, that no one is to be backstage. Like, when we bring him in, the only person that's supposed to be backstage is the stage manager and Ken Coleman. And so I'm standing there. Emcee's out there about ready to introduce us. He's not back there. I know he's here in the building, but he's not back there. So I'm standing there waiting to go, and I'm looking out towards the stage, and. And I hear behind me, hey, Ken. And I turn around, and he's literally doing that little bouncy gate of his, and he's got his arm out, and he sticks his arm out, and he gives me a fist bump, because that was, you know, COVID protocol. And I said, Mr. President, so honored to get to do this with you. And I fist bump him. And I look at him, I said, hey, let's go out there and let's have a blast. True story. I got this in my home. Three days later, I come in the house. My wife goes, you got a package from George Bush's office. And she hands it to me, and I open it up. I don't know what it's going to be. It was a signed book of one of his latest art books. But more importantly, it was a handwritten note, and you're the king of this. And this is pretty special. He wrote some nice compliments there in the note, but what he said at the very end, he goes, I hope you could tell. And he put in quotes, I had a blast. He remembered that little moment, and I would not have remembered that had somebody said that to me. So I do want to share that. That interview was special, obviously, because he's a former president, and he did share a 911 story that he had never shared before. That was a big deal. He said, I've never shared this before. That was pretty cool. But the handwritten note afterwards, I'd say that one sticks in my mind is probably one of the great honors of my life.
- [29:22]
A
And. And you also getting to do this. Like, you also see that attentionality of focus is why these people become great at what they do. You know, you're getting to interview these people who are at the top of their game and you get a chance to learn. My one big story was the highlight of my career was Neil Armstrong.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [29:40]
A
And to give you the backstory on this, it was set up to be the biggest disaster of my career. So go back 24 years ago. The entire net income of Buffini and Company that year was $75,000. And I started pursuing Neil Armstrong. I just had this thing for the American space program that couldn't quit. And I started pursuing him. And he hadn't done a public appearance in 15 years. And I did it through. I wrote personal notes to people around him, people connected to him, relationships I knew. And then write, wrote notes to him. And finally it was like the fourth note in. He writes on my note, takes my note, writes on it. Are you going to keep writing me notes? Send it back in the mail to me. And I just wrote, yep, and sent that back to him. So it sets up a call. And he had an Eagle talent Agency. I'll never forget it. She'd been out of business for about 25 years. Okay, Esther Eagle. God mercy on her. She's died a long time ago, but she had been like a big talent agent in the 60s and she hadn't done anybody in 20 years. So she goes, the fee, 75 grand, kid. Can you afford that? And I go, nope, but I'll do it. So it was the entire net income of the company the year before. And I committed to do it. We fill up this event, we have 5,000 people coming to Vegas. And of course we have in the contract, hey, I want to do a pre con call with you. And I'm talking to him and Ken, he wouldn't give me any response at all. So I'm kind of, hey, it's a great honor. I'm Irish guy, a big space fan. So here's some of the questions I'd like to ask the audience. And I'd ask them the question and can. It was silence, right?
- [31:07]
B
Right.
- [31:09]
A
And of course, you know, I'm not great with silence. I'm like, okay. So I'd ask him the next question and finally I get to the third one. You know, the Irish irreverency kicked in and I went over, it's like, are you there? So he starts giving me these one word answers and I'm like, this could be the greatest train wreck of my life. I'm gonna do this in front of 5,000 people, but you'll love this. So I had in the contract for him to come and have lunch with me backstage at the day before the event. And he was coming into town with 5,000 people in Vegas. I'm there. I have my whole family there. So I have my mother and father in law, my brothers, my bride, my kids, and my mom and dad. My dad's the quietest man you ever met in your life. Typically. Not speak up in a conversation like that. So we are getting nowhere. Mr. Armstrong's just eating his food, not really interacting with anybody, trying to make small talk, not getting anywhere. So finally, my brother Dermot goes, you know, Mr. Armstrong, when you were on the moon, I wasn't even on this planet. And he goes. And then my dad goes, ah, damn it. It's because I was looking at that moon. That's why you're on this planet. Well, Armstrong spits up his salad, okay. Laughing, he goes, you know, the Irish are so funny. I remember when we landed on the moon, I went to Ireland. So then he says to me, would it be permissible for me to stand backstage during your sessions tomorrow morning? So he stands backstage. I come off stage, he'd have a list of questions for me. I do my next section, and that's the questions for me. We have lunch again. He says to me, would it be okay if we totally abandoned what we were going to talk about? Can we just have a conversation? We go on stage. I got the, you know, Andre Bocelli sound system. We built this amazing video. He comes out on stage, he's got the tears streaming down his face. And for the next hour, it was a God thing. He was a comedy act. This thing's an exhibit in NASA. This thing became part of a movie. And he never did it again. He never did it again. A week later, he was with Wolf Blitzer. One word answers. And it wasn't about the answers. It wasn't about the connection. It certainly wasn't my skills. I'm not Ken Coleman, but I will say this. It was when he connected on a personal level and we stopped kind of interacting with him as Neil Armstrong. And my father, of all people, knew that intuitively it was time for a little funny story here that had nothing to do with Neil Armstrong. And he just. When he connected as a person and he saw that, hey, they got this family. All the walls that he had built up for decades came crashing down. And he gave an interview. I'll send it to you.
- [33:36]
B
It's I'd love to see.
- [33:38]
A
It's like, it's tough when you peak, you know, 25 years ago. But here's the thing, you know, I was kind of down to my last gasp there. To make a connection with this guy, you have to make a connection every day. And you have every type of ego, agenda, personality, skill set, communication style. This is what you do for a living every day. God help you. How do you approach when you're trying to make a connection with somebody? Is it the preparation? Is it the research? Or is it being fully present as a human being? Or is it all the above?
- [34:12]
B
It's all of it. So it starts with really good prep, and again, it gets back to that. I've got to deliver something from this conversation to the audience. So I think of the audience first, then I think, how can my guest serve the audience? And it's my job to tee the guest up to then, in fact, serve. So we've talked about that process, but the, the connecting piece is happening real time. One of the things I enjoy doing, I don't do it every interview, but most of the time if I don't know somebody. So how I would interview you is very different than how I would interview somebody that never interviewed before. If it's somebody that I never interviewed before, I'm going to get real personal pretty quick. And the goal there is to take them to a very good emotional place, because a lot of the people that I interview have been interviewed a lot. So if you don't do a good job of connecting with them, Brian, what happens is they stay on autopilot. And autopilot is not fun and doesn't yield anything. So you don't remember I said my whole goal is to get somebody to say, I've never been asked that before, or I've never shared this before. And that's when I know that's my personal litmus test. So in order to do that, I've got to create some psychological safety. Now, that sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo, but it's not. In other words, I got to get them to a place where they go, oh, this guy, he's. He's actually, he's not mailing it in. He's actually really interested. It's the same example I gave in the backyard with that guy. I want that guy to. To feel something. And, and if I can get a guest to feel safe and feel valued, now here's what happens. They drop their guard, the autopilot goes off, and they start to Engage. And, and so early on I'm trying to talk to them about something that is very personal to them. It doesn't have to be. Take me back to when you were a 10 year old. Could be. I know with Condoleezza Rice when I interviewed her at that same conference years ago. Condi's been interviewed a billion times and she's always got her guard up. That was her job. You know, Secretary of State, National Security advised that. This is a woman who lived with the gate up and she was like Wilson in Home Improvement, like, that's what you got, right? And, and I remember the very first thing I said to her, I came out and she just finished a keynote. So we had this awkward transition. And this is, this is the lesson to. To this question. This is the lesson. And so here we are going to meet in the middle of the stage while the stage hands are putting the chairs in. So it's naturally an awkward moment. She's just finished a keynote and everybody's clapped for. She's been talking about geopolitics. Nobody freaking cares. This is a leadership conference. You've spoken to this crowd. Entre. Leadership Summit doesn't care about geopolitics. All right? But that's all she knows. So now I got a 45 minute interview and I got to bring the meat. And so I know that I have got to connect with this lady fast. We've barely said hi backstage. Zippo. So I had in my mind, I'd planned this for weeks, Brian. So we get up, shake hands, and I say something like, folks, wasn't that great? And I look, I go, hey. While they're putting the chairs up, before we get into the good stuff, I think on behalf of certainly every golfer in this room, we want to know how hard is it to come up with a great outfit to go with that green jacket CROWD laughs She, she just completely. Now, if you're not a golf fan, you got to know that. That she had just prior to that, the year before, had been named as the second female member of Augusta national, the most prolific, you know, golf membership of the world. And so the golfers in the room got it. And I didn't really care about the rest of the audience, but if you knew sports. But she got. Wasn't for the audience. That question was for me and her. And she looked at me with the biggest warm smile and she was like. And like, she appreciated that I went to something that was very personal to her, but something she wouldn't talk about. So very humble lady. So that's an example of early on. Now, the rest of the question, the rest of the answer is this. It's not just what I'm asking, but the secret to being a great question asker actually is to be a great listener. You can actually plan the greatest questions in the world, but they will fall flat if your guest does not feel like you are fully engaged. And so I'm going to roll into this. I don't know if you're playing to ask me this, but this is, this is if I were going to impart anything. You want to be a great question asker? The secret, the secret to being a great question asker is to become a great listener. Now, here's how you listen. All right? First, we listen with our ears. We all get that. I'm listening for intonation change. I'm listening for uncertainty versus certainty. I'm listening for conviction. I'm listening for any kind of emotion that. Now that's with my ears. But now I'm going to listen with my eyes. And this is probably as important as the ears. I'm watching body language. I'm watching an uncomfortable shift or I'm watching the shoulders drop. And there was a moment in the interview with you that I could take you back almost like John Madden. I could put it on a telestrator and go watch Brian's shoulders drop is when you begin to talk about that moment with your dad and how you had never even thought about what he had said and how that's impacted your. And I'm telling you, your shoulders dropped. And what was happening there that I saw was, this is a guy who has now completely gotten lost in the thought. If I can take a guest and you can take a client in a house and you get them completely lost. In other words, they are. It's the dunking booth. You've hit the bullseye, they drop below the water and this is a good thing. And they are consumed. They have. You forgot that I was across from you. You forgot that there were 30 people in that room. And you, you can watch your eyes. You can watch the tape. Your eyes go like this. And you went somewhere that is. I got to see that. And so I got to see that with my eyes and go, oh, we just hit a nerve. We now we're. Now we got something. Let's pay attention there. I want to listen with my face. I want. And it's not fake, it's not fake, but I want my eyebrows to move. I want my face to be engaged. I want to show. If you Think about your sweet, precious. I think about all my kids. But when my daughter Josie, I think of like 6 year old, 5 year old Josie. When she'd tell me a story, I would just be like delight. And so I'm very cognizant to listen with my face. If I'm. And I'm not faking it, but I mean I'm interested. So I'm going to, I'm going to raise my.
- [41:07]
A
You're bringing yourself to it. I'm here. I'm here with you.
- [41:10]
B
And the last one is I want to listen with my body. They're different, the faces. The face is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Because of the law of mirroring. I won't teach on that right now. Go look it up. There's your homework assignment that you can use this. Your clients in those houses or in your office or when you're walking on the sidewalk, they're going to mirror. Your. Mirror your face. So listen with your face. And then last, the body. And certainly when you're in a sitting situation, you know, don't cross your arms. Do some basic. Learn basic body language. But I like to lean in. I like to lean to the side, you know, I. And again, this is not disingenuous.
- [41:50]
A
But.
- [41:50]
B
It, but it is a way of showing respect and engagement and you'll be surprised.
- [41:58]
A
It's an intentionality on your part. I'm here with you. I'm giving you good energy. I'm genuinely interested and I'm laughing at myself because I just was going to ask you how can our listeners get better at listening and asking questions and you just interviewed yourself, Coleman. That's what you just did. You just interviewed yourself better than I can interview you to get the question, to get the answer. I should have just started off and let you interview yourself. That's actually what I should have done. Look, it's a treat and I'm excited. I'm really thrilled a for you to get you exposed. We're going to have 50,000 people on this broadcast on January 22, and we're going to talk about starting the new year off with the rip roaring. Good start. I'm going to talk about some business fundamentals and some things that people can get going. And then there's going to be myself and Henry and John Acuff. And it's interesting, my last interview with Henry, he just said the three words that everybody has when somebody's talking to them is am I safe? And you just embodied it here in your, in your skills. I'm so excited to create this fantastic, safe environment for you to go do what you do with myself and John Acuff and Henry Cloud, so that we can then a bring just a great level of thought to people that they can actually wrap their arms around, maybe goals they've always set and fail that things where they have this new year. Our industry, as you well know, I've told you, the consumers haven't struggled in real estate because the prices have stayed high and there's demand. But the real estate industry has been pretty leveled. In fact, 20% of the real estate business is now in the process of leaving the industry, according to the national association of Realtors. So we have people who've persevered, who've hung tough and who are now ready to get on. And 20, 26 really promises to, with the rate cuts and so on and so forth, really promises to be a good year for the industry. So I'm just thrilled that you're going to do this. I thank you for coming to town to do it. It's going to be awesome. We'll have a, we'll have a couple hundred VIPs that fly in. So we'll have a, we'll actually have a live audience in front of us. They'll get a chance to ask some questions, too. And then you're going to get to use this amazing technology, Ken, where we're able to bring people from all over Kingdom come, all over the world. This will be translated in six languages. And then they come into the studio like they're sitting next to us. And it's just a. It's really something special. So I'm so excited. This is the first time we've ever done an interview format like this and we have to bring the man in.
- [44:14]
B
Well, I would challenge the audience. I want to challenge your audience. If you're thinking of coming, you need to come to this because magic happens when you see three guys like this. By the way, I have the privilege here of doing this from a context of friendship. I've been friends, friends with all three of these guys for a long time. I know them personally. So it's really, really going to be fun. But I would tell you this. Here's the exercise, here's the homework assignment. Everybody that's coming, this event needs to come with only one question. I don't care if you do two to five. I don't care. But come with one. As if you're going to get your name called for the Oscars. You got to have the Oscar speech ready because we don't know who's going to get a chance to ask a question in live room or certainly via satellite. And so here's why I'm challenging your audience to do this. If you're coming and you need to come, you have your one. If you I only have one question I could ask these three guys. I only get one. What would I ask? And the framework that I gave is what do I want to know? What do I need to know? And then how can any one of these three guys answer both of those questions? And then that'll yield one big question. Here's what you do. You come with it, have it with you that day and be fresh with it. Because here's what I will here's what you will find. If you don't get a chance to raise your hand and ask a question, that question will be so top of mind that you will get answer to that question multiple different ways. It's almost magical. I can almost predict it that you may not get to ask it, but I think you'll hear multiple answers to that question throughout our time together. You watch how that works.
- [45:45]
A
So just like Ken challenged you guys to have your question ready. Hey, you can meet the speakers in person. We have a couple of hundred seats available for vip or you can register for free and be part of the virtual audience. And the virtual audience are going to get the chance to reach out in touch and ask questions to the presenters also. So it's It's a good life. All one word. It's a good life.com BCL BCL stands for Buffini Coaching Live. If you want to register for a VIP seat, you can do that there. And if you want to register for free, you can do that there. We'd love to get your year off to a rocking good start. And I'm so fired up. Ken John Acuff, Dr. Henry Cloud for committing to do this. It's going to be awesome. Ken, how can people hear the front row seat podcast?
- [46:29]
B
Well, it's anywhere you listen to podcasts, but it's such a great visual product that you can attest to. My team has done a fabulous job and YouTube is what it's made for. Certainly a video product, but you can get it on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [46:45]
A
It's awesome. It was certainly my favorite interview of the year, I can tell you that.
- [46:48]
B
Thank you.
- [46:49]
A
And one of my favorite guys. And so I'm going to finish it off. Ken, thanks for taking the time today. I'm going to finish it off. You know My mom passed this year.
- [46:56]
B
Yeah.
- [46:56]
A
But for nine years, we always finished with her recording of her Irish blessing. And since she passed, I decided I'm going to do it myself. So we'll finish with this. May the roads rise up to meet you. And may the wind always be at your back. May the rain fall soft upon your fields and the sunshine warm upon your face. Until we meet again. May God hold you all in the hollow of his hand. We'll see you next time. Thanks so much, Ken.
- [47:18]
B
Thank you, Sam.