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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to It's a Good Life podcast
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where it's all about helping entrepreneurs think,
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feel, and do better.
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B
Here's your host, Brian Buffini.
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A
Well, top of the morning to you and welcome to It's a Good Life. Before we begin, I want to tell you about It's a Good Life. Plus, it's our new ad free subscription. If you don't like listening to ads on podcasts, and I don't, just open the Apple podcast app and click on It's a Good Life. You'll see a banner to remove ads. It's five bucks a month and they even offer a free trial. Look, five bucks. No more ads. All you get is It's a Good Life. Today I have a guest you are going to love. But I will say this has been on my bucket list for a long time. His name is Dr. Art Laffer and he has taught me more about economics through his books than almost anybody else. I would say Art Laffer and Milton Friedman are the two people who've helped shape my economic philosophy which has allowed me to prosper in business. And he is known as the father of supply side economics. He was a member of President Reagan's economic policy advisory board. He also advised Margaret Thatcher. He's also been awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And he has published a new book, Taxes have Consequences. No kidding. And it's an income tax history of the United States. It's very, very powerful. Dr. Art Laffer, it is a thrill to have you today. Thanks for joining us.
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B
My pleasure, Brian. My pleasure.
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A
There's a lot of people in our audience who will know you and some who won't. And we've had all these celebrities and famous people on this show. But I'm just giddy to have you here today to share with us the fundamentals. You know, today, like you look at the recent scandal here with FTX and the herd mentality. And I'm listening to all these folks on CNBC telling me Sam Brinkman Fried is the new JP Morgan of crypto cryptocurrency. And it's just that, you know, that type of stuff happens because people are not connected to the fundamentals. And I really want to dive in here today and talk about supply side economics. I want to talk about taxes, your book, and I also want to talk about how all the entrepreneurs we have can actually navigate through this because you've been around a while and you've seen all the patterns before. Nothing new under the sun. But before we get into it, give us a little background on you how in the world did you ever get into this whole economic side of things? I mean, where'd you grow up and how'd you end up where you are today?
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B
I was born in Youngstown, Ohio. I was raised in Cleveland, Ohio. I went to Yale University. I did not do very well my first three years there. So I took a year off and I went to the University of Munich in Germany where I switched my majors from math to economics. And the story, that's the story from then on. I went to Stanford, I got my MBA at Stanford, then my PhD at Stanford. I taught at, well, I taught at Stanford and I went to University of Chicago, went through all the ranks there. Went to usc. I was a university professor at Pepperdine. So that's my academic career politically. You know, I was the first chief economist at the OMB when it was formed in 1970 with George Shultz. I was his right hand person. And then I went with, well, you know, all that, the Nixon administration, then Reagan, Trump, and here I am, an 82 year old man who's drooling often, short, fat, ugly, smelly and grumpy. So that's me.
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A
Well, I'll tell you this, there must be something in the water because you're on fire. You look like you're 50 and you're clearer headed than anyone else I know these days. You know, there's a lot of confusion out there today about economics and a lot of obviously everything's become so unbelievably politicized to the point that it's not taught. I know, I know people don't know about it. My kids have all done this stuff, economics in college, never heard about it. And it's just unbelievable to me. Maybe you could give us the basic understanding of what supply side economics means.
- [03:53]
B
Well, let me give you the basic theorem, if I can for one second, Brian, that's so relevant today. And it's called the theorem of redistribution. And forgive me for being a little bit academic with you, but this is math. It's not left wing, it's not right wing, it's not liberal, it's not conservative, it's not Republican or Democrat. It's just plain math. Whenever you redistribute income, all right, whenever the government redistributes it from one person to the next, all right, it always reduces total income in the society. Now let me just show this to you. Now, if you redistribute from those who make a little bit more and you give to those who make a little bit less, all Right. By taking from those who make a little bit more, you reduce their incentives to produce and they will produce a little bit less. By giving to those who produce a little bit less, you will provide them with an alternative source of income other than working, and they too will produce a little bit less. The theorem here is unmistakable, is whenever you redistribute income, you always reduce total income. And that has been exactly the story of the last four years. With all this spending, we've had no growth. We're in a secular decline period. And let me just do. Can I do the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren version of it? If you were able to redistribute income to the point where everyone all came out exactly the same, there will be no income whatsoever. Let me show it to you. In order to get everyone to come out exactly the same, what you have to do is you have to tax everyone who makes above the average income 100% of the excess and you have to subsidize everyone below the average income up to the average income. Now if you actually did that, Brian, if you actually tax everyone above the average income 100% of the excess, and if you actually subsidize everything below the average income up to the average income, I will stipulate today, counselor, we'll all be equal at zero. There will be no. I wish Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and AOC could hear this because it ain't rocket surgery. As Larry Gatlin says, if you tax people who work and yet pay people who don't work, do not be surprised if you find less people working.
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A
Like, we have 11 million open jobs in America today.
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B
But who wants to work?
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A
We've seen a record number, a record number. I think there's 7 million able bodied men who are not in the workforce today, who are capable and able to work, who are not working. Productivity is down, numbers are down, and here's the dynamic and we're going to get into this in a minute with the supply side. I've pretty good sized business. I have hundreds of employees, hundreds of thousands of clients all over the world. But I spend more of my time these days working on the net income, taxable consequences than I am building the next business or growing the next revenue. And I'm a serial entrepreneur. I mean, I would do it just to do it. I enjoy building businesses. I've owned over 40 businesses. I enjoy building it, I enjoy creating it. I came to America, the land of opportunity. I wrote a book about it called the Emigrant Edge and how you can come here and flourish in the land of opportunity. But the truth is, I spend a lot of my time today thinking about things other than growing the business because the incentives are not what they were before. I mean, California, I live in the People's Republic of California. They just defeated a ballot for a 1.75% additional tax for people over 2 million a year, which would have put it over 15%. And that just would have been it for me. I love the ocean, I love the climate. I love the people. I just don't love them. 15%, that's. That's just too much. And so.
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B
Well, you know, I lived in California and I moved to Tennessee because it's the lowest tax state in the nation. You know, Tennessee is the perfect example. Can I give you Tennessee? We are the lowest tax state in the nation. That's why I came here. We have no income tax, no unearned income tax. We have no death tax. We have no gift tax. We have the third lowest property taxes in the nation. We have the lowest tax state in the nation. We also have the biggest surplus relative to our side in the budget than any state in the nation. Our credit rating is number one in the nation. All of our pension funds are fully funded. We're the third best funded state in the nation. We have the biggest growth rate of any state in the nation, period. We have the best provision of public services. We have improved education by more than any other state in the nation for fourth grade math, fourth grade reading, eighth grade math. And we're the fastest growing state. Other than that, though, we're really awful. I mean, other than being the most wonderful state in the nation.
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A
My wife is in the Tennessee hall of Fame as a volleyball player. We have great fans there. Dave Ramsey and his whole organization.
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B
Well, Dave was a close, close friend of mine.
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A
And so he's been trying to tell me for get out of California, man, you need to come to Tennessee.
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And I took his advice. I'm here.
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A
And again, this is part of the dynamic of taxes have consequences. Taxes have consequences and it's why you wrote the book. The truth of the matter is it changes behavior. You know, the truth of the matter is I love walking on the beach every morning. You know what I'm saying? But now I'm thinking I am. Tennessee's one of the places I'm looking at.
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B
The beaches aren't so great here, by the way. Brian Just thought I'd mention. No, I left California. I lived in Rancho Santa Fe, as you probably know, for most of my life. I left and came here. And now once the statute of limitations are passed, I can come back and walk on your damn beaches and not have to pay your taxes. You got three years statute of limitations. That's it. And, you know, that's what I did.
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I left.
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And it was the best move I've ever made. You know, working is a lot more fun with lower taxes. It's just fun getting to keep some of it.
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A
So let's talk about this for a second. You know, they say those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it. You've seen it over and over and over again. We've entered into this dynamic where we have massive spending. We have. And again, as you talk about the redistribution, the government doesn't distribute anything very efficiently. You know, it's shocking to me, so many young people, when they go to the DMV or they go to these places and they have these frustrating experiences, they don't seem to then relate it to every other aspect of the economy. So there's a major disconnect there. And it's also, again, it's not what they've been taught. Now, my kids have heard it from me, you know, they've heard it with their mother's milk, you know, from day one. But they go to college and they come back and we have these grand debates with all their friends. Talk to me about what continues to happen for a country like you say, we have this now very high inflation. We have printing $. I believe $100 in 2000 is worth 60 today and falling. So you've seen this before. You've seen, you know, you started in the 70s. You saw those runaway inflation in the past, high interest rates. It seems now we have the Fed raising rates, but the government's still spending money, so they're not working in concert together. Where does this go? Where do you see this going in the near future here? All this spending and then raising the rates and the runaway inflation?
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B
There is a huge history here. In our first chapter, we go through what happens when they raise tax rates on the rich. And every time they've raised tax rates on the rich, the economy has underperformed. Every time they've lowered tax rates in the rich, the economy has outperformed. Every time they've raised tax rates on the rich, the rich do badly. Okay, that's true. But the poor even do worse. The Great Depression was where they raised the rates the most on the rich, hurt the rich a lot, but it really damaged the poor, the minority, the disenfranchised. So there's no benefit to the poor of taxing the rich? None. Number three, every time they've raised tax rates on the rich, tax revenues from the rich have gone down. Every time they lower tax rates in the rich, tax revenues from the rich go up. Because not only do they earn more, but what they do earn, they don't shelter anymore when you lower tax rate, but when you raise tax rates, the rich get hurt, they earn less. But what they do earn, they then shelter the living heck out of it and you don't collect any money. And the last thing is, during long periods of high taxes on the rich, the government has always pushed the tax burden down on the lower incomes, the bottom 95%. When tax rates in rich are very high, tax revenues from the bottom 95% as a share of GDP increase dramatically during the period and everything you don't want to happen. Our second chapter, Brian, which is sort of fun, goes through all the traditional tax shelters that the rich people are much smarter than government. They've got the resources to hire lawyers, accountants, deferred income specialists, favor grabbers, lobbyists, you name it. They can move other places. They get on their yachts and sail around. All this stuff they can do. So you're not going to get their money. You're not going to get it. What you're going to do is be chasing them, but you're not going to catch them. And then we go on in the rest of the book, going through each period, looking at the whole debates and taxes and what happened in the process, and it's just loads of fun. The Great Depression, Great Depression was caused by one thing and one thing alone, raising taxes. Herbert Hoover raised the highest marginal income tax rate on January 1, 1932, from 25% to 63%. Put on taxes on everything that swam, flew, lay on the beach, dug holes in the ground, you know. The Smoot Hawley Tariff was the beginning of the Great Depression. In September of 1929, it was passed by the House and the Senate and then crashed the market. It's just a beautiful story of taxes have consequences. And if you tax the most productive members in society, they will not be able to lead you to prosperity. And let me just put it this way. America is great not because it has street cleaners, not because it has bread bakers, not because it has cops, not because America is great. Because a small group of people of the entrepreneurial spirit are able to create new products and new developments that benefit the whole society. It's the free enterprise system and the top 1% of income earners. That has launched us into the most prosperous nation on earth. All the others have the tall wheat syndrome, which is cut the rich ones down. We have not done that. And the point is that this book documents that in spades. You'll love it.
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A
Well, the other dynamic that I love about it is it. It talks about aspiration. You know, I did a speaking tour through Europe a few years ago. I spoke in nine countries, basically all of their different real estate companies. And every country I went to and I interview somebody. You've done many talks. You say, okay, what does your audience need and who do they have? And you're getting your info. And across the board, every one of them said something like this, can you help our people have more ambition? Now, I've done over 2,500 speaking engagements. I have never had someone in an American audience tell me, can you help our audience have more ambition? Americans by nature are ambitious. And so when you tap into that ambition, people want to see that, and they want to see people rise up and grow and the environment to grow. Now, the politicians do a great job of going, we need to get those guys. Right? We need to get those guys. You know, envy is a very simple thing. They have a great life. You have a terrible life. We're going to clip those people's wings. But, you know, I'm living in California. You talk about Rancho Santa Fe. The number of homes in Rancho Santa Fe that are only used four and five months a year now is staggering because they can afford to live other places, have a home six months a year somewhere else. And what happens, all the different projects are not getting done, all the construction projects are not getting done, all the landscapers and it's all. The dynamic of what true supply side is is an evidence in front of my eyes every single day.
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B
If you tax rich people and give the money to poor people, you're going to have lots and lots of poor people and no rich people. It's just simple. People like doing things they find attractive and they dislike doing things they find unattractive. And taxing something makes it less attractive, so they do less of it. And subsidizing something makes it more attractive and they do more of it. Don't tax people who work and pay people who don't work. It doesn't make sense.
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A
Where do you see things going? Art, where do you see things going? I mean, in the current situation, we just had an election. The president said he plans to do nothing different.
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B
Yeah, let me, let me just. Can I Cry for a moment here with you. I mean, I watch all the Republicans now, they're going to do investigations of Hunter Biden, and Biden then appoints a special prosecutor to go after Trump. That's not what government's supposed to do. Stop all that stuff. When Trump was elected president, the first thing I asked him to do, pardon Hillary, get on with the real business of America creating prosperity. But they're going to spend all this nasty stuff and revenge, Revenge is a poison you take hoping it'll kill someone else, but it doesn't. It kills you. Stop all this investigation, stop all this oversight. Cut the damn taxes, cut spending, put in sound money, free trade, minimal regulations, and then to get the hell out of the way and let the economy solve itself. These people, it's America's economy, not the government's economy. And if you do what government's supposed to do and then pull back, the people will take it from there to the mountains, to the sky's the limit. But that's what you need to do, is give people the option of doing it.
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A
So it seems like what we're going to have at least some kind of check and balance on reigning and I mean, there's always been so much spending already.
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B
From your lips to God's ears, I don't think so. I think you're going to have all sorts of investigations, all sorts of disrespectful, awful stuff on both sides of the aisle, and no one's going to stop anything. No one's going to control anything. How are these House members, let's say they subpoena someone to come in. Who do you think is going to enforce that? Subpoena the Justice Department. No, they're not. It's going to be this futile battle all over again. Get down to business. Cut taxes, cut spending, make sound money, cut regulations, open up the energy circuit, and then open free trade. You know, there's nothing more important than free trade, Brian. I mean, it's what causes the world to boom. And, you know, we do some things better than foreigners and they do some things better than we do. We would be foolish and extreme if we didn't sell them those things we make better than they do in exchange for those things they make better than we do. It's a win, win, win, win. David Ricardo. Comparative advantage gains from trade. But why not now? We're banning everyone. We're using trade as a political tool against countries. It shouldn't be that way.
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A
It's so simple. People don't want to do the simple Basic things. Let me ask you this question. I have hundreds of thousands of small business owners that are in an environment. They didn't raise the taxes, but they have to pay them. They didn't raise inflation, they didn't flood the system with money, but they have to deal with the consequences of it. Yes. How would you advise a small business owner, maybe they got 10, 20, 30, 40 employees. How would you advise a small business owner to prosper and grow in the midst of an environment that's not necessarily set up to prosper and grow?
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B
Now, you promise not to take offense?
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A
I won't take offense.
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B
Move to a low tax location, move to Texas, move to Tennessee, move to Florida, move to Nevada, move to South Dakota, move to New Hampshire. These are the places where there are no state and local taxes. And you know, if you have two locations, A and B, and you raise taxes in B and you lower them in A, producers and manufacturers and people, except for Brian are going to move from B to A. I mean, it's as simple. That's the first thing. Then you go and study those areas and find out where you can do and what you can do in those locations. These are all the things I do. Two of the chapters in my book are state and local governments during the interwar period. And the one is Post World War II, what taxes? What states have increased tax rates, brought in the income tax. It's really not difficult. Then you get down to, can you make a good pizza pie or can you make a good car, or can you make everyone in Michigan and Ohio and Indiana and all these Illinois complain about all these foreigners taking the auto business? The auto business isn't in foreign hands. The, the auto business right here in Tennessee. We've got every major company moving to Tennessee. And why? Because we don't tax the living hell out of them. And you know, what you want to do is you want to first choose your location, then study the location really carefully. Don't get surprised by regulations. Don't get surprised by, oh, I didn't know that was there. You know, when I left California, I hired the top lawyer, ex IRS agent to make sure they wouldn't chase me for the rest of my life. And I was very successful in that. You know, do it carefully, be very careful, and then take your expertise and make your damn products and sell them to people and enjoy life. You know, there's nothing more pleasant to a producer than a consumer. I mean, I love getting paid by my clients, don't you?
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A
It's the best.
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B
It's the Best. So make it so you can do that. And that's why you want to have free trade. And especially with Iran, especially with China, especially with Russia, especially with Venezuela, because they're our customers. And once they pay us, we like them, and we pay them and they like us. We talk together and sooner or later we become friends and then we bring down the pressure and we have peace in this world, just the way Reagan did it with Gorbachev. If you won't forgive me for talking about an Irishman of my ilk, my family's all from the Ulster Union, from Belfast, where Reagan is from as well, by the way. And you know the question I would ask you about Ireland? Do you know why everyone's investing in Ireland? Because the capital is always Dublin. And that's what your tax rate cuts did to Ireland. You created a prosperity patch in the middle of the eu.
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A
Well, it's funny you talk about that, right? So my brother Dermot was very slow to get his American citizenship, and I got my American citizenship 20 years ago. Well, it was interesting that we were looking at establishing and still looking to establish a foothold in Europe and open up an office, a business in Ireland. And if he opened it up as an Irishman, his taxes would have been in excess of 50%. But if I opened it up as an American, the taxes were 12%. Talking about taxes have consequences.
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B
12 and a half percent, by the way.
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A
12 and a half. That's right, that's right. And again, every half makes a difference.
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B
It does, it does.
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A
But the truth of the matter is
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B
you take a penny here, a penny there, you know, sooner or later it's a dollar.
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A
What people have to realize is that when you're trying to grow and when you do get some momentum, like, I spend a lot of my time looking at the taxable consequences, I'm looking right now as if you can buy a property and vrbo it, you know, you can write off the taxes and accelerate the depreciation for the next few years. You know, learning about the tax code and understanding how it impacts you is a very significant dynamic. And here's why. Margins of businesses, you know, again, a lot of politicians are a lot of lawyers that never ran a business. You're not running on 100% margin or 50% margin or 40% margin. So when you can save 15% by reducing your taxes, sometimes that's more than the margin you're making on your products and services.
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B
Come on to Tennessee and join me. It's been the best move I've ever Made. I mean, I've prospered here like you wouldn't believe. Low rates, no tax rates really make a difference. I know you believe.
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A
I know I do.
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B
But, you know, when you look at the people, the thing I would advise your listeners to think about that I might be able to help them is there is no rhyme nor reason or really logic to what government does. It does all sorts. So therefore, it's not something you can sit back and logically figure out without knowing what these kooks and nuts and weirdos and freaks do. So therefore, when you go to a location, make sure you understand what the government policies are, because all the rest is the same in the rest of the world. The dollar is the same, all the country, our language is the same. You can move anywhere, ship goods anywhere, all of that stuff. But the laws are not the same. The regulations are not the same. And that's why you need to lower those so you don't step in a cow pie by accident. And I can tell you how many of my friends have made mistakes and have lost their fortunes because they didn't know the government policy. They didn't know the regulation.
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A
Well, it starts by getting the copy of Taxes have Consequences because I believe you got to get informed. You got to understand. It's beautifully written. I love it. Thank you for my signed copy, by the way. That was very kind of you.
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B
Well, I have two co authors who made it really good. I've been working on this topic for 40 years, but they came in Brian Dimitrovic and Gene Sinkfield and just great co authors with me, and they really made this thing fly and made it happen.
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A
Well, it's a fun read, which you would not think you'd have a book on taxes. You don't have to have a PhD or an MBA to understand this book, but it's crucial. And if you're running a business, you got to know. And I'd say before you pack your bags and move out of state, get the book and read it first and learn about it and then, like you say, understand things. Like, I'm in a spot right now where I'm investing and I love real estate. I come from real estate while doing my homework and I love San Diego. San Diego is a little bit different than the rest of the state of California. It's, you know, it's a military town and. But I was looking to develop some property and 50% of the hard cost to develop property in San Diego is into regulations. And that's why I started looking elsewhere And I'm looking elsewhere now, not only to buy apartment buildings, but to build apartment buildings. Because right here it doesn't make any sense. And it's funny. Here's the housing crunch we have in San Diego and I would love to help it. There's some lots available and some places available, but just not worth my while to do it.
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B
I was on the board of Lion Homes for years and years. You know, the general. And. And it was just great. But the difficulty we had in getting plots and developing the developments there because of the regulations, restrictions, widening the roads and all these things we had to do is it made it just a very, very dangerous, very tedious job to build homes. And it just very much against the homebuilder in California.
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A
Yep. More homes built in Dallas, Texas last year than in the state of California, if you can believe that, with 40 million.
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B
Well, that's because more people are moving from California to Dallas.
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A
Oh, you're going to.
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B
I'm on the board of. I'm on the board of a Reach in Dallas, Texas. I know if you know nxrt, which is multiple fam. I'm on the board of that and have been for a long time and you know, we don't have any problems in Texas.
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A
No, I understand.
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B
Just thought I'd mentioned if you're not coming to Tennessee, God, at least go to Texas or Florida or.
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A
You're killing me. When my wife hears this podcast, I'm in trouble. That's all I got to say. No, look, it's brilliant stuff and obviously, you know, I would say step one for an entrepreneur is the first thing is you have to understand that taxes do have consequences and you have to become very familiar with everything that's available to you. You need to make sure that you're investing and you get some really good smart help with some people who can help you think outside the box. I'm here from the government on it. What is it? I'm from the government. I'm here to help. Reagan's old phrase.
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B
So Reagan's old phrase.
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A
And it's just not. It's just not the case. It's not where productivity goes and it's not where growth comes from. You have to grow your business beyond, but you have to grow your business smart because otherwise your effort gets diminished.
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B
Taxes and regulation are a huge component of good business decisions. And that I think your clients, Brian, should know that. That, you know, you really got to know your tax structure, your regulatory structure for you. And if you're an international trading one, if you buy products from abroad or sell them abroad. You need to know tariffs, quotas, restrictions, all of the political relationships you have with foreign products and foreign sales. It's really not easy, but you've got to understand that to make a good living.
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A
Well, Art, we have five questions we ask everybody who comes on the show as a guest. They're kind of off the wall a little bit, but gives us a great perspective. So here's the first question I have for you. What's the single best piece of advice you've ever received?
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B
Be careful. Don't smoke. Don't run drunk across the freeway. Be very careful. Don't take unnecessary risk.
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A
Sounds like your mom gave you that.
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B
Is your mom My mom more than my dad.
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A
Okay. Yeah. And what did your dad do?
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B
My dad was head of one of the largest companies in the U.S. he was Cleavite Corporation. He was CEO and president for 25 years. My grandfather was a brain surgeon at Western Reserve Medical. My other grandfather started for steel companies. I've been in the lap of luxury, of privilege from the birth, and I don't want to lose that position. I want my kids to have it, my grandkids as well.
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A
Did your dad help shape your philosophy about money and taxes?
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B
He was the best friend I've ever had in my life. He was my best man in my wedding.
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A
Oh, wow.
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B
So I. My best friend.
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A
Oh. Oh, that gives me goosebumps. That's beautiful.
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B
I loved it. I mean, he was just the best man ever.
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A
That's great. God bless him. What was our. What was his name?
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B
William Laffer.
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A
William Laffer. Okay. What one talent or gift do you wish you possessed that you currently don't?
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B
Height.
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A
What are you coming in at, 5, 8?
- [27:50]
B
Would you say I come in now? I'm taller than Milton Friedman. Just for the record, I've got, if I have one second to tell you a story. Arnold Schwarzenegger. I was having breakfast with him out on his patio, and he says, also, why is it all you clear Sinking economists are so short. I said, where in the hell does this come from? He said, no, Milton Friedman. He copied more than 4ft 6 inches tall, little bitty, tiny man. Also. And also, you remind me of Donny DeVito. You know, I started with him in twins. So that was the stuck on first conversation I had with Arnold schwarzenegger. But I'm 5ft 6 and I say a half, but whenever anyone says a half, you know they're lying. And that means they're just trying to bump it a little bit.
- [28:30]
A
Well, I Know, the one talent you don't need is impersonation. That was a spot on, Arnold.
- [28:34]
B
Very good.
- [28:34]
A
Thank you. Okay, what one book has been most instrumental in your life?
- [28:38]
B
You know, I really love the science books a lot. The three books I've read recently that a guy named Paige wrote a book on organic chemistry, and I can't remember the name of it right here, but I just finished it. It's one of the most amazing books. There's another book called Immune, about the immune system. That's just phenomenal. Recent book, big thick thing. Great. And there's another one I can't. The guy's name is Ed Yong, who wrote the book, and it's about the world in which all sorts of animal senses exist. It's one of these three books have been the most eye opening books I've read in ages and ages and ages.
- [29:19]
A
Arch, you're 82. You look 52. You've got energy for days. You're passionate and fired up. What keeps you so fired up and youthful and energetic? Is it this curiosity or is it Irish jeans? What is it that's doing it for you?
- [29:33]
B
Who knows what it is, but I have a cup of coffee every morning.
- [29:36]
A
Well, you have a great passion for what you do. If there was one movie you watch over and over again, what would it be?
- [29:41]
B
Top Gun.
- [29:42]
A
Oh, my wife would love it.
- [29:45]
B
I just love Miramar. You know, I went out to Miramar all the time when I was there. I went on the cruise as I was out on the big aircraft carriers and I would take groups of them out there and we would do the night ops from north island. And then there. At one time I was out there when there were war ops. Do you know what war ops are? Where they drag a ship way behind it. I was on the Stennis and I was on the Lincoln, those two aircraft carriers. And, you know, how can you not love Top Gun? I mean, it's San Diego, it's America, it's. And the latest version is just absolutely out of sight. Cool. You gotta see it in a big theater where the noise goes boom over your head.
- [30:22]
A
My wife has seen it 10 times. She's an Air Force daughter. And my daughter, who's trying to make the Olympic team for dressage, just finished second yesterday in her big competition and she does her dressage routine to the new Top Gun music. It was a big hit.
- [30:36]
B
It's just great. Well, my daughter was dressage as well. She was number two in LA and Orange counties as well. So we were. A horse is an Animal you pour fortunes into and you can't sell.
- [30:47]
A
Don't buy anything that eats while you sleep. That's the problem.
- [30:50]
B
Don't do it. Just don't do it.
- [30:52]
A
Last but not least, when I say the good life. What does a good life mean to Art Laffer?
- [30:56]
B
Lots of kids and lots of grandchildren and lots of great grandchildren. It's as simple as that. It's personal. It's. I've got the greatest family in the world ever, and I just want to just wallow in the in and hug them all and everything. They're all coming down for Thanksgiving. It's just the most wonderful thing we have. A good old Irish Bing Crosby Christmas, as you probably imagine. Anyway, as Father John vows to bless the house and all, you know, it's just wonderful. And, you know, I just look back and say, if there's one blessing I've had in life, it's the big family and all of us getting together. And you must feel the same way about it.
- [31:31]
A
I do, indeed. I do indeed. And I'll tell you, part of the good life for me, coming to America as an immigrant, getting exposed to people like you, that expanded my thinking. Milton Friedman expanded my thinking. Opportunities you created with what you did with Reaganomics. You know, again, forget the politics, but
- [31:48]
B
you didn't mention Proposition 13.
- [31:49]
A
No, that's right. That's right.
- [31:51]
B
I mean, it's very involved with Prop 13, with Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann and all that stuff. And we won.
- [31:55]
A
Well, thank you.
- [31:56]
B
Did. I mean, winning is very important.
- [31:58]
A
That's the only thing left.
- [31:59]
B
Because if you don't win, you don't change the world.
- [32:01]
A
Well, that's great stuff.
- [32:02]
B
And if you get killed, you. You don't change it either. Don't ever be a Gunga Din. Go after things you can actually do and change. Don't just sit there and cry about, whoa, it's so unfair. Do something about it. People deserve the governments they get. And if you don't get in there and fight and give and do all of that stuff, you deserve what you get.
- [32:24]
A
Taxes do have consequences. It's a great book. If you really want to get an education and be able to navigate it yourself and again, see the patterns. I love the patterns, are able to help me forecast. And when you see what's happened in the past, it makes it very practical to see, you know, you know what's coming. You know what's coming. You know what's coming. With high inflation, you know what to do. You know how to do it. It's a great read and I encourage all of our friends and listeners to get that book as soon as they can.
- [32:49]
B
Thank you, sir.
- [32:50]
A
Art, thanks for joining us today. You're a real treat.
- [32:53]
B
Oh, you are too, sir.
- [32:54]
A
I'm going to finish our podcast today. My 92 year old mother, who's still going strong in Ireland, she finishes off with the great Irish Blessing and that's how we're going to finish it off this evening. Thanks for joining us. I'd really appreciate it.
- [33:06]
B
Thank you very much, Brian.
- [33:10]
A
May the road rise up to meet
- [33:11]
B
you and may the wind always be at your back. May the rain fall soft upon your
- [33:17]
A
fields and the sun shine warm upon your face. Until we meet again.
- [33:21]
B
May God hold you in the hollow of his hand.
- [33:24]
A
See you next time. Time.