Take Your Ass to Cracker Barrel

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Take Your Ass to Cracker Barrel"

I've Had It Episode Released on August 7, 2025
Hosts: Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan
Special Guest: Sammy Sage

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Introduction: Setting the Tone

In the episode titled "Take Your Ass to Cracker Barrel," hosts Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan dive deep into their frustrations with various aspects of contemporary American culture. From road rage to the complexities of multiculturalism, the duo doesn't hold back in expressing their disdain for behaviors and societal norms they find problematic.

Road Rage and Trumpism

Angie Hbic kicks off the conversation by discussing a common pet peeve: slow drivers in the fast lane.

"I hate it when you're driving on the highway and somebody is driving slow in the fast lane... I start creating a narrative about that person. Like this person is so stupid... that tells me they're a Trumper." [00:18]

Jennifer Welch relates by highlighting the machismo tied to American driving culture and its broader societal implications. She criticizes the association of slow drivers with Alpha male posturing.

"It’s just like an easy place to deposit all of the grievances just to blame on... MAGA." [01:35]

Critique of White Evangelical Culture

The hosts delve into the stereotypical behaviors exhibited by some white evangelicals, particularly those who support Trump. Jennifer laments the lack of genuine culture among certain white communities, reduced to stereotypes like big trucks and Bible studies.

"There is no culture in white America except for dumpling truck life, church visits and Bible studies..." [03:38]

Angie amplifies this by criticizing the overcompensation seen in male behaviors, linking it to broader issues of masculinity and societal expectations.

"They’re all about money and nationalism... make America great again." [03:42]

Multiculturalism vs. Monoculture

A significant portion of the episode contrasts the richness of multicultural environments with what the hosts perceive as the cultural void in predominantly white communities. Jennifer expresses her preference for diverse social circles, finding them more engaging and substantive compared to homogenous groups.

"When I go out with my gay friends, when I go out with my black girlfriends... there's just a lot more meat on the bones." [08:15]

Guest Segment: Sammy Sage on Digital Accountability and Social Media

The episode introduces Sammy Sage, founder of Betches Media, who discusses the impact of digital platforms on personal reputations and accountability. They explore the controversial app "T T," designed for women to anonymously review men based on dating experiences. Sammy acknowledges its potential to empower women but warns of its misuse and the ethical dilemmas it presents.

"If everybody did it in good faith, I think it's a great app... but I do see that it could be taken too far." [19:55]

Israel-Palestine Conflict and Anti-Semitism

A substantial segment focuses on the Israel-Palestine conflict. Jennifer raises concerns about the American political landscape's strong support for Israel, questioning why this issue often takes precedence over domestic concerns like healthcare and racial justice.

"Why should the American taxpayer care so much about Israel?... What a gift, what a privilege it would be to have all of these politicians create a safe space for black Americans." [56:00]

Sammy Sage provides a nuanced perspective, emphasizing that the conflict has been politicized and that leaders like Benjamin Netanyahu exploit such situations for personal gain. She calls for empathy and understanding, urging listeners to differentiate between government actions and the people they intend to protect.

"There are so many people who do confuse or purposely confound Israel and what the Israeli government is doing as with just all Jews, as being representative of all Jews." [68:44]

Empathy and Human Rights

Throughout the discussion, the theme of empathy emerges strongly. Both hosts and their guest advocate for a compassionate approach towards all affected by conflicts and societal issues, whether it be anti-Semitism, racial injustice, or personal safety.

"Compassion, empathy, human rights, social justice... I think it's so important to make the distinction between the government of Israel and the people." [83:14]

Conclusion: Advocating for Understanding

As the episode wraps up, Jennifer and Angie reinforce the importance of open dialogues and credible messengers like Sammy Sage to bridge understanding gaps. They highlight the necessity of combating stereotypes and fostering empathy to address complex societal and global issues effectively.

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Notable Quotes:

• Angie Hbic: "I have gotten so much feedback regarding the book that because of my situation with the religion and addiction and all that, that people relate to that." [31:05]
• Jennifer Welch: "We need to find our aligned and common humanity in this." [81:00]
• Sammy Sage: "If everyone centers their efforts around compassion, around understanding, that will be effective." [78:20]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of I've Had It serves as a candid exploration of the hosts' grievances with certain cultural and political dynamics in America. By inviting Sammy Sage, the discussion gains depth, particularly on issues of digital accountability and the Israel-Palestine conflict. The episode underscores the importance of empathy, diversity, and informed discourse in navigating the complexities of modern society.

Transcript

[Jennifer Welch]

So are we supposed to start the podcast?

[Angie Hbic]

Ready, one, two, three.

[Jennifer Welch]

Patriots. Gay Trots. They Trio. Black Trio, Brown Trio. Welcome to America's top DEI podcast. Pumps. What have you had it with?

[Angie Hbic]

Okay, what I've had it with, and I know I've talked about this before, but I hate it when you're driving on the highway and somebody is driving slow in, in the fast lane. Because it's not only annoying because you're just treading water, you can't get behind the slow person because the fast person won't move, vice versa. So you're just, you're suspended in time, I feel like. And then I personally take it a step further and I start creating a narrative about that person. Like this person is so stupid. They don't know they. That you're supposed to drive fast and just pass in the fast lane unless you're going to drive fast. That tells me they're a Trumper. And I know they're a Trumper because they're stupid. And then I get mad like, I cannot believe that person. Then I see that they have a kid in the car and I'm like, they're generationally perpetual perpetuating Trumpism. And this is all because they're going in the slow lane. But I take it, I mean, they're going slow in the fast lane, but I take it to a whole nother level that my blood is boiling because I just immediately. Now, anybody that does something that's idiotic or stupid or a lack of self awareness, they immediately go into my Trump MAGA pile. And then I get enraged.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think that's so relatable. And it's such an easy, like right now, it's just like an easy place to deposit all of the grievances just to blame on. Just put it all in maga. But you know, this whole thing about like driving in the fast lane, that's an American thing, right? You go to other countries and they only use the fast lane for passes missing. And everybody's over in the right. And I've noticed that the people that do the slow driving in the fast lane, with the exception of elderly people, which I kind of give a pass on, I do too, is, you'll see it's a guy like in a Ford F150. Yes. And they're wanting, they're wanting the road rage incident because you, you'll, you know, you be behind him, you get, you know, 24 inches away from their bumper and they start slowing down. Then you finally get around him and they're like, you know, with their hat. And it's just, I don't know what it is, this American machismo. I think we just have a culture that has a lot of beta males in it and where we don't want the beta males to fill their level of beta, we've told them they're alpha and capitalism has offered them things that they can purchase to make them feel like they are big boys, like big trucks, big tires, nut sacks for the trucks, little Eagle shirts, Maga coated merch stuff. And then we've offered, you know, a president that makes them feel like they're badass when really that just all of those things just show how beta they are because all they do is follow what the, the beta herd is doing.

[Angie Hbic]

You're so right about capitalism. Gives them a way to say, hey, I'm not a beta male, I'm an alpha male, right? And it's the whole, you know, just the tires and it's all for me. And I know I've said it a million times, it's overcompensating. You're afraid you're either small manhood or bad in the sack. Cause those things follow. And so then I have to prove, I have to talk tough, I have to talk down to women to prove how big my dick is.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Angie Hbic]

And I just fucking hate it.

[Jennifer Welch]

I've had it with white people that triple trumped.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

That have the nerve and the audacity to walk into a Mexican restaurant, a Chinese restaurant, an Indian restaurant, go to perhaps their gay hairdresser, white women that may use a gay makeup artist. I really genuinely believe that if you vote, if you triple trumped then you are all about preserving the lack of culture in white America that has led us to where people go and Bible thump with their AR15s. Like that's the only thing that I see when you get all white people together in the United States there's no culture at all. So they have to go borrow culture from people. Even the word woke they've borrowed from black culture. They. I went to a Mexican restaurant with my parents, my son, my husband over the weekend and there's just all these MAGA looking people in there. And I thought you've got, got a lot of nerve coming in here, coming into this Mexican restaurant where every single waiter, obviously English was their second language, served with a smile. They run a great little local business and Oklahoma City is a better place because of these hard working immigrants that come in here. But I cannot imagine the horror they feel when they are driving to and from work when they might have a hearing on their status, legal status. I can't imagine the people who've already been taken from their lives. And to see these fat ass pink arm, teeny weeny beta pricks with their ugly ass wives walk into this Mexican restaurant and sit down and smile and be friendly. I don't think you should be able to enjoy anything but Cracker Barrel. Get your fat asses over to Cracker Barrel. Quit watching NBA basketball. Quit watching sports that are dominated by African Americans. Quit going to Mexican restaurants. You want white culture? You go fucking live in it. You live in it, bathe in it. Go to do all the white culture stuff, get your bible thump on, go get in the dunk tank at the mega church after you watch your mega preacher drive off in his Rolls Royce and then go you to the shooting range and go shoot shit. But do not participate in any of the shit that makes America cool. And what makes America cool is multiculturalism. And if you want to triple trump and you want to browbeat DEI and you want to browbeat gay people and you want to browbeat black people as you've been doing for 400 years, and you want to browbeat this generation of immigrants that come over here and open up businesses, earnestly pay their taxes, you want to demonize them and call them rapists and felons, felons and all this when the felon is the teeny weeny mushroom piece of cankles mctaco tits at the top of the ticket. I have had it from top to bottom white people that triple trump should be banned, boycotted from enjoying the best thing that America has to offer, which is multiculturalism. Get your fat asses out of the Mexican restaurant, get your fat asses over to Cracker Barrel because nobody wants to see your fucking smug ass, teeny weeny pink arm, big gut around. Nobody wants to see that shit. No one, I completely agree had it.

[Angie Hbic]

I want to take it a step further. I want the women, the triple trumper white women.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

I want, if you want to be in the golden age, then I want you to give up a credit card in your name. I want you to give up the bank account in your name. And I want you to be completely beholden to a man. I don't want you to work. I want you to stay home and make cornflakes from scratch for that fucker. Because that's what you're voting for. When they're talking about the golden age and let's get make America great again, they're Talking about you having less rights than men, not be able to have a credit card, not being able to own anything in your own name. So triple trump, country club, Christian white women, you should have to forfeit those luxuries.

[Jennifer Welch]

I completely agree. And I think they should probably have to give a couple blowjobs a day too.

[Angie Hbic]

I. I think that's fair.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. You know, like, if your whole thing is you're going to service these men, then you know they know better. And you're going to throw other people's kids under the bus just because of the color of their skin. And you think watching Candace Owens makes you a little bit less racist. Fuck you. And I just, I just, I cannot stomach what this horrible white culture is doing to the best parts of America right now. It is just unfathomable. And how smug they are and how hateful they are and just how God awful the architecture is in the churches that they frequent explains a lot to me. And I know I always go back to that. But there is no culture in white America except for dumpling truck life, church visits and Bible studies, combined with going to the shooting range and then watching Fox News and being a piece of shit, that that's what American culture has come to in white America. I personally my life, when I'm around a bunch of just white women at a lunch, I avoid those things like the plague because it bores me to tears. There's no substance. Nobody talks about anything interesting. It's demeaning people, it's gossiping behind people's back. And I just am not that interest in that. I'm not that interested in that. But when I go out with my gay friends, when I go out with my black girlfriends that I've met through my son's basketball, there's just a lot more meat on the bones. White people are dreadfully boring. And what has saved us from the lack of culture in America is our multiculturalism. And I enjoy very much experiencing black culture, Latino culture, Asian culture as an American. I enjoy those cultures very much because they've integrated into our culture and because white America, especially for me, an atheist raised in the Bible Belt, with all these women that just their life goal was just to get married. I mean, no offense if that's what you want to do, but that wasn't the life for me. That's not what I wanted. I wanted to have a career. I want to have my own thoughts, I want to have my own agency. I want to have my own autonomy. And I've always wanted that. So I'VE always been an outlier in this place. So I have found the comfort and in the people who the patriarchy has also tried to shoot down. And that's where the best meat on the bones is in America. That's where the best of the best is. The crusty country club lunches. Have at them. The, the book clubs with white women and the Bible studies. Have at it. Do your thing. Don't go to gay hairdressers. No gay floors for you. No Mexican restaurants. Get your fucking ass to Supercuts and over to Cracker Barrel and you leave the. Of all the culture that all of this multiculturalism is built to those of us that aren't racist pieces of.

[Angie Hbic]

I think it's a fabulous idea.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

One of your best ones.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you. Welcome to. I've had it. I'm Jennifer.

[Angie Hbic]

I'm Angie Hbic.

[Jennifer Welch]

That stands for Beaver.

[Angie Hbic]

Beaver in charge.

[Jennifer Welch]

Kylie.

[Kylie]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

What do you think?

[Kylie]

I love this idea.

[Jennifer Welch]

What do you think? I mean, you, you grew up in an all white town. Stillwater, Oklahoma.

[Kylie]

Is there any culture there besides football and God? No. If that counts as culture.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Kylie]

You know, I just, there's a news story out there right now that there's like a whites only town on the rise.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, I've seen that. Like Missouri.

[Kylie]

And they want to spread it. They're like, we're going to open more. And the comments, you go look, you'll see a black person say, good, right? Stay in it. Build those.

[Jennifer Welch]

Exactly. I mean like that is my worst nightmare. Like some of the most misery of my adult life where I've been sitting there thinking what are my life choices? Is when I've been with a group of. When we were younger and our kids were younger and you end up with a group of moms.

[Angie Hbic]

Right?

[Jennifer Welch]

And I'm sitting there and I'm listening to the conversations they're having and what's important to them. And I'm just sitting there thinking. And it's. And it's their life. Everything's relative. But I'm just sitting there thinking, these people literally have no clue. I remember we got in a conversation at your house once. This is during the Obama administration about health care, Obamacare and this woman, I talked, I talked about this in our book. This woman is a huge Christian. She has a gay brother. But just, you know, completely dismisses that fact. She's a judgmental, hateful twat. One of the biggest, most hateful twats I've ever met in my life. Right. And she's all over me telling Me, I'm going to hell and all this shit, right? Like, you know, this woman's an alcoholic, she's got a gay brother, can't even for one second look in the mirror. But. But she's big, big Bible thumper. So she's making the case to me about Jesus and what a terrible person I am because I'm an atheist and all this shit. And I look at her and I go, so you're big into Jesus. Like, what about health care for poor people? Well, I don't think that's a right. It's a privilege. She says that to me just as smug as fuck. That kind of white culture I just want no part of. I want no part of that white entitled Christian culture. It grosses me out. I dread every minute I ever spent in circles like that. And when I do the autopsy in my adult life at this stage and I look back, it's spending time with people like that that I regret. I don't regret my mistakes. I regret sharing oxygen with pieces of shit like that. I do.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah. And it's pervasive. I mean, it's everywhere. And it is a mindset. It is not isolated. That philosophy is. Or that way of thinking is not an isolated incident.

[Jennifer Welch]

No, it's just like brazen hypocrisy on display.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Bragging about it.

[Angie Hbic]

Well, indignant.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

Just I get to have it because I'm privileged. I'm chosen and I'm better than other people.

[Jennifer Welch]

You see, especially in places like Oklahoma, it's such a void of culture just in almost. People brag about it.

[Angie Hbic]

They do brag about it.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. That. The. The lack of culture, like, well, you know, we're just down to earth, good people. We like our suppers, our football team, our God and our guns.

[Angie Hbic]

Our guns. Yep.

[Jennifer Welch]

You know, it's just God, church. It's gross. It's gross. But you know what? If that's what they want to do, I'm with. I'm with the people. If they want to have an all white thing, I think it's dangerous. I think it's up. But at least you know where not to go, right?

[Angie Hbic]

I don't ever want to go there.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right, yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

No, I agree. And who would want to be around those miserable people anyway?

[Jennifer Welch]

Probably 77 million people.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Touche.

[Kylie]

Okay, I've got some reviews for you today. This one is for Meemaw. It says, meemaw, was that you? And Kathy says, I recently participated in a 10k and could have sworn I saw Mima racing alongside me. What Made me think it was America's greatest legal mind. The racer was puffing on their vape while running a 10k. Of course, maybe it was you, maybe it wasn't. Either way, I love the pod. You keep this Les trio sane in Trump's godforsaken America.

[Angie Hbic]

First of all, I'm so flattered that she thought I could run a 10K, which I don't think I could even walk. A 10K. And the vaping, it's a woman after my own heart.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. The vaping is. I think you're a bigger vaper than you were smoker and you were three packs a day Marlboro Lights.

[Angie Hbic]

I completely agree. Because I can do it inside. Yeah, I can do it. It's in my bed asleep. I have one in bed, and if I lose it, there's one next to me that I can grab. Yeah, no, it's way worse.

[Jennifer Welch]

It reminds me of your youngest, Luke, when he was three with his passies. Yeah. So Angie's little. Her youngest son. His name is Luke. He's a doll. He just had a birthday, so. Happy birthday, Luke. And he was so obsessed with his pacifiers when he was little. Like, I mean, it was. He would have one in one hand, one in the other, and one in his mouth, and he could like, juggle them in and out. And I would just. To fuck with him. Because when you' young mom, you just. You're bored to tears. You're home all the time with the kids. I would get a bowl and I would put all of his passies. There'd be like 12, and I'd put it right in front of him, like. Like a bowl of chips. And Andrew would be like, you're such a. And I'd be like, I know, but let's just see what he does. I mean, he made sure he rotated them all in and out. That's you with the vapes. Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

No, it's an oral fixation for.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, sure.

[Angie Hbic]

Also, what he did when I'd say, luke, you can't take your passy in here, he would take it in his hand and go suck it and then put it down. Like, take a bunch of big sucks off of it.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. It was like.

[Angie Hbic]

Which is what I do if I know I'm going where I can.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm like, yeah, you're a. You are. You have toddler, like, instincts with your vaping 100.

[Angie Hbic]

I can't defend it.

[Jennifer Welch]

You love it. You love it so much. I do. Okay, Kylie, anymore.

[Kylie]

I've Got one more five star review titled how did I live without you? And D. Matt Taylor says as a podcast obsessive, I don't blow smoke, but this pod has to be the best. I listen to them all, but this is the most refreshing, honest, engaging, joyful, real rat and content I need in my life every day. Thank you for stepping up and speaking up when our world is in disarray. I love you both so much. Please never stop bringing truth to the world.

[Angie Hbic]

How nice.

[Jennifer Welch]

That's so nice.

[Angie Hbic]

What a great review. Two great reviews.

[Jennifer Welch]

Great reviews. I mean, we'll be due for some negative ones, I'm sure. Okay, Pumps, I wanted to share this with you. I don't know if you've heard about it or not yet. There is an app called T that lets women anonymously review guys and it has soared to number one in the app store. A new app called T T has gained rapid traction as women only platform for anonymously reviewing men based on dating experiences. The app was inspired by what the creator described as his mother's experience being catfished and unknowingly dating men with criminal records.

[Angie Hbic]

Wow. I think this is a fabulous idea.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's triggered a backlash, particularly from men who say it promotes unverified allegations and causes reput harm. Some have threatened legal action, citing concerns over privacy and defamation. The platform also suffered a data breach on July 25 with personal information reportedly leaked on 4chan, according to 404Media.

[Angie Hbic]

So in theory.

[Jennifer Welch]

You know, when you think back to being young and dating and it's. It's not spoken about a whole lot. But you. When I think back to how horny men and how diabolical they can be to get laid, when you think back to being like in your 20s.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

And how they can put on this charm offensive and tell you everything that you want to hear. And so then you start sleeping with them and then you find out he's got like three or four other side pieces.

[Angie Hbic]

Right?

[Jennifer Welch]

And then you're like, what the. He is such a piece of. And he perfectly, like made himself your, you know, perfect prince that in your stupid, young, naive world you're thinking of. So in that regard, I can think about us, you know, younger and going, oh my God, this guy, you know, putting the tea, spilling the tea on that. But I can also see somebody getting a guy that's probably about A, maybe a C plus, B minus morally. Okay. He's just, he's not that great, but he's slightly above average. But he really broke your heart and you want to make sure. Nobody else dating. I could also see a group of girls talking into let's just rip him on the tee. Of course, you know what I mean? Hell hath no fury.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah. No, I, if, if everybody did it in good faith, I think it's a great app. But and I'm not saying in if I were dating and I did that, I'm not saying I wouldn't fall prey to not being in good faith, but I do think it's a really powerful tool because men are such liars. You know, they also have that are we dating the same guy kind of thing where you post the picture and it's supposed to be just women. And you know, and I personally have not been on it. People have showed me like oh yeah, three people were dating. He said he was single, he was married, like all the things. Because I think men have had the advantage for so long that they get the benefit of the doubt. And so I think it's good that women have this. But I do see that it could be taken too far and I'm, I personally could take it too far.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well and I'm thinking about like not it, not where we are right now, but think about like you're about 24 to 27, 100% your whole social life is, is like okay, we're going out and it was before social media for us. You go out, you go to bars and it's all about mating rituals. Like I mean that's just your number one go to. Well that's what these people, this generation is doing and they're mating rituals. Bizarrely. A lot of them are happening online through these apps and I could see like I could see a girlfriend if I'm really honest. We're drunk, maybe smoking a little weed.

[Angie Hbic]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

And she's like in this he me and then he left my apartment, then he went and her and then he came back and crawled in bed with me. Pass the joint around, you take another shot. And it's like let's light his ass up. Now here's the thing is promiscuity being promiscuous is that as for a 20 something year old male, is that worthy of complete reputational annihilation online? That's the question I get to. Because I think that there is always still this double standard where women are slut shamed and men are cheerleaded women by how many partners they have. But ideally I think in your 20s it's the time to kind of go out and just around agree. I think it's the time to go out, have casual sex, have serious sex, kind of figure out who you are sexually. I'm sure, like, there's some Bible thumpers that hate listening to us right now.

[Angie Hbic]

That are just dying.

[Jennifer Welch]

But genuinely, I think that's what the 20s are for. Learning, you know, always under the parameters of consent and safety. But that's what you should do. So I wonder if, like, let's say we have four sons between us. Let's say one of our sons goes through a slut period.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

You know, and then he's just eviscerated reputationally online, then do these men become more risk averse to dating? I don't know.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah, I mean, it's just there's so many problems that I don't know how to solve because I just don't have any experience with it and I'm past the time in my life, but I know in my 20s I would have abused that kind of a side.

[Jennifer Welch]

You too.

[Angie Hbic]

There's just no question.

[Jennifer Welch]

I just 100% I can see you and I like. If you date, like, okay, let's just. For example, you know, you recently had an affair with a married man. Unbeknownst to you, you didn't know he was married.

[Angie Hbic]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

But let's take that back a couple of decades when we used to go to Mexico and sit around and smoke weed and drink champagne. All right. All day long. That's what we did on these trips. And you found out at that age when hormones are higher, I could totally see us just fucking body slamming this guy on one of those apps. And he would have deserved it.

[Angie Hbic]

That's what I was gonna say. And then you have the deserved body slams online, the people that do misbehave so badly, but also, like, it's just such a fine line. And it is to make that decision.

[Jennifer Welch]

But here's the, here's the moral question. Outside of overt, like, sexual abuse and emotional abuse, is the guy that lied to you, took you on some dates, is that the Internet's business?

[Angie Hbic]

I would say no, but I think that's an H thing.

[Jennifer Welch]

Because I think as much as I hate infidelity, as much as a skunk, as I think that guy is, I don't think he is an emotional abuser or a physical abuser or any of those things. He's broken and he can't keep his dick in his pants. There's no question about that. But welcome to the human species. Right? So I guess that's my question about this whole thing is people are flawed and people Cheat and do these things. But is it worth having this paper trail? I don't. I just don't know.

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah, I just, I cannot. I. I see how it could be good, how it could be useful, how it could spare someone. Like if somebody gets on there and they're like, oh yeah, that happened to her. I'm kind of seeing these characteristics, you know, like controlling. His ex girlfriend said he's super controlling. Pretty soon he's in your bank account. You know, that's abuse to me. That deserves. I agree. You know that that is a warning flag.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

But then you just get into, is anything private anymore? And then who's the judge who determines what is appropriate to be called out online and what isn't?

[Jennifer Welch]

I know who. I know who the judge can be. Dun dun dun, dun, dun, dun, dun dun dun.

[Angie Hbic]

Princess Diana.

[Jennifer Welch]

Judge Judy Diana. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay.

[Angie Hbic]

I kind of would get so juicy.

[Jennifer Welch]

I just. I don't know. I was kind of. This is one of those stories when it came out, I at first was like, oh, good, women get them. But then as a mother of two sons and a woman who's been scorned before. Yeah. You know, and, and have scorned. Totally. But both ways, I mean, being realistic about it, I just started thinking, you know, do. Is that. I don't know. Kelly, what's your take? Slow.

[Angie Hbic]

I was a young person on the Internet. What do you think?

[Kylie]

I'm kind of not into it. So like, I think it's a dangerous. I think it's kind of bad for all of that to be out there. Like the concept of social credit. You know about that. China does this. There's a black mirror episode on this where like a credit score. But it's you as a human online.

[Jennifer Welch]

It'S like you're uber raiding. Yes.

[Kylie]

And I just think that's very dangerous. I think someone is evil to everyone in a breakup. It doesn't mean that they're evil. They're going to be evil to you. So I, I think it's dangerous. But I will say Pumps has gotten my Facebook account. I gave her the password and she added me to all of the. Are we dating the same guy? Yeah, Facebook groups.

[Angie Hbic]

I was trying to get in it.

[Kylie]

I creep in them and it's actually very fun to watch. And they do catch a married person. They catch a sexual predator. But there's a lot of on there that should not be on there. And it makes me kind of feel bad for some of the guys.

[Jennifer Welch]

That's the thing. At what cost? I mean, obviously we have, you know, there are predators. And I remember being a young woman and falling prey to bullshit from men. And I'm sure I bullshitted, you know, of course. But I don't know, I just am so grateful we were younger. I didn't have to navigate adolescence and young adulthood with a smartphone.

[Angie Hbic]

Same, same. Totally same.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's just one more layer is becoming so risk adverse. And I certainly understand why. Because now if this app, the tea is out there, then, you know, let's say, you know, you. You. This girl's super hot. She's hot and you know, great in the sack. One of our boys dates her, but then psycho stuff starts and then they're reluctant to break up because she's like, I'm gonna put you on the T. Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

It can become emotional blackmail and vice versa.

[Jennifer Welch]

I mean, I think it can. I think it can go both ways. Generally speaking, I think men's are more skunky than women when it comes to dating. Just from my personal experience, but I mean, I've known some real psychos and I'm sure I've been psycho a few times.

[Angie Hbic]

I know I've been psycho a few times, but in my experience, men are act worse.

[Jennifer Welch]

What about the time you showed up to the strip club?

[Angie Hbic]

Yeah, that was psycho.

[Jennifer Welch]

Why don't you share that with the listener?

[Angie Hbic]

Okay, so we're. This was before I got married, which really tells you how sick and up I was.

[Jennifer Welch]

Are you engaged to him at this time or. Or living together?

[Angie Hbic]

I don't think we're engaged or living together. No, no, no, wait, that's a lie. We were living together. Okay, but we were not engaged. We were supposed to go to dinner with my mom. He said he had to go do a depot in Tulsa. Fine. So that was before tracking on the phone. And like he called someone else in my law firm to meet for drinks at a strip bar. But he told me he was going to be late from Tulsa for me to go to dinner by my. Just to go ahead and go to dinner. So being a fucking nut that I am, I take my car and I go straight to the strip bar and I park right in front and there was a camera, which was unusual in those days. I mean, this is like 30 years ago. So this was unusual ages ago. And so there's a camera looking down on who's getting in. And they won't let me in. And then I start going into all this. It's a free country. You can't keep me out. Like just making the biggest horses ask myself. So he's sitting in the strip bar watching this on the black and white and he comes out. It was a huge fight. I let him go to sleep that night. Then I poured a big bucket of ice cold water on him while I was asleep. What I should have done is pack my shit and left and said, peace out. But I didn't do that. That's what I should have done.

[Jennifer Welch]

But yeah, which is why I think you and I could teach a seminar on how. Who not to marry, who not to.

[Angie Hbic]

Marry, how to not pick a husband.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

And forks in the road. If we took fork to the right, then you absolutely need to take the fork to the left.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right, listen up. We have a guest today on this podcast. But before I introduce her, I do want to tell everybody that you still have time to get the summer's hottest reading book there is on the planet. It's written by none other than Judge Judy, Diana, the head beaver in charge of the entire United States of America and me. And it's just a great little summer read. And so we're going to keep promoting it until you guys continue to buy this book. Because we've got to get these copies sold.

[Angie Hbic]

Pumps. That's right. We can't have boxes and boxes when we die.

[Jennifer Welch]

All right, so today we have a guest. Her name is Sammy Sage. We have been on her account. She is the founder of Betches Media and Betch's News, the host of award winning Daily morning Announcement podcast, the author of the New York Times best selling book Democracy in Retrograde, how to make changes big and small in our country and our lives. Let's welcome to I've had it. Sammy Sage Pumps. And I need to share with everybody that we have written a book. It's called Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches and Believe it or Not Pumps. And I have not always been so rock solid. And we talk about all of our trials, tribulations, most of all our fuck ups. Yes. Because fuck ups are relatable and a part of the human experience.

[Angie Hbic]

I have gotten so much feedback regarding the book that because of my situation with the religion and addiction and all that, that people relate to that. So I do think there's something to take away that's comforting about it because we've all been in very difficult situations.

[Jennifer Welch]

And listener what we want you to do. This is the it book for summer reading. So please get your copy of Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches and take a picture of yourself with the book in really great places and tap tag at I've had It podcast and we will share your images with our Summer it book. You can buy it in bookstores. You can buy it in the link in our bio. You can buy it at Target, Walmart, Amazon, etc all the retailers. Happy reading and Happy summer.

[Angie Hbic]

This episode is sponsored by Better Health. You guys. It is so hard to find mental health advice online because it's there's so much on there, it's hard to distinguish what's good, what's not. How does it affect my decision making when I read this on one side and this on the other? So it feels like there's advice for everything. Cold plunges, gratitude journals, screen detoxes. But how do you know what actually works for you? I'll tell you what works. Trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on an over 1.7 million client reviews. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. And you can switch therapists at any time with no charge. Talk it out with Better Help our listeners get 10% off the first [e-mail] had it. That's better. H E L P.com had it.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm so done with people acting like low sex drive is just a part of aging. Like, oh, you're in your 40s. What did you expect? I expected to still want sex. Thanks.

[Angie Hbic]

Exactly. And that's why there's Addie. It's the first FDA approved little pink pill for certain pre menopausal women who are bothered by a low sex drive.

[Jennifer Welch]

Addie helps bring back your libido. It helps you feel like yourself again.

[Angie Hbic]

Yes, it's real, it's researched. And it's not just part of getting older. It's something you can treat. Go to addie.com to learn more. A D-Y-I.com addy or flibanserin is for.

[E]

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[Angie Hbic]

Boxed [e-mail] PI addy a--y-I.com all right.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think she's joined us. Let's welcome Sammy Sage, our friend, to I've had it podcast. Sammy, welcome to I've Had It. We're so happy to have you on. Hi.

[Sammy Sage]

I am thrilled to be here. I love you guys and I'm just. I can't wait to tell you what I've had it with. Oh.

[Jennifer Welch]

Oh, good. Dive right into it. What have you had it with?

[Sammy Sage]

Dive right in. Text messaging scams. I am just. Do you. Do you get these a lot? Like, I am just so sick of hearing that my package has been, you know, delayed or hearing that I have a ticket that I'm going to be arrested for not paying or, you know, and I just have to tell you what happened. A few weeks ago, I actually got texted by one of the scammers. He must have been new at the scam factory or something because he accidentally made a text chain with a bunch of other people. So we were all like, on it, and people were writing back, like, oh, you fucked up. You know, like, why are we all on here? You know, so it was. Honestly, I'm just tired of getting texts from and having, like half of them be from not people that I know.

[Angie Hbic]

It's really picked up lately. And I've gotten a lot of scam phone calls lately, like spam or whatever. It's just like, it's like it's picked up like three and four and five a day now.

[Jennifer Welch]

You know what it is Trumps America. I mean, they're just beholden, these spammers and these scammers. And we blame Sammy. We blame everything. Every little thing that happens in the in our personal lives or in a larger scale to the country, everything. We're like, thanks, Trump.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, well, it's. You're not wrong. I mean, he's basically made white collar crime not a real thing anymore. But I do have to say I get a fair amount of these texts, texts from Democratic organizations asking for money. So I don't know, I think it's just. It is, it is Trump's America. It's this obsession with money and max and, you know, exploiting people and degrading their experience of life at any cost because it costs nothing for them and for us, it really costs a lot.

[Jennifer Welch]

Totally. Okay. I want to talk to you about something that I think is super important, and I think that you're a good messenger to help navigate through this. So it's the whole Israel, Palestine issue. And when you're like us and you live in red state, middle America, you don't really have a whole lot of diversity in your city. You don't really kind of know what the whole thing's about. And what I'm telling you right now, millions of American, even Democrats, don't really know what the whole thing is about. And then you start seeing these images coming out of Palestine, and then you see Benjamin Netanyahu, who just seems to be like a fascist, right wing, unlikable, smarter version of Donald Trump. But then you're scared to speak about it because I have Jewish friends. You're Jewish. You're scared to speak about it because you feel like they're always gonna be like you're an anti Semite. And so it feels like everybody's just kind of like stuck and silenced about being able to speak about it. And then I see this Zoran Mamdani, who like, oh, my God, here's the answer to all of our problems as Democrats right now. This is what we need to do. We need to go left. We need an economic populist message every. The whole party is going to get behind him. And then you see Cory Booker and Hakeem Jeffries lollygag around and they won't even endorse him. And so I just want to, number one, as a Jewish, liberal, progressive person, what is your take on all of this and what can you tell people? And this is something the left is going to have to realize. A lot of people, Americans are ethnocentric. A lot of people don't give a shit about it. I do when I see that suffering. But a lot of Americans that live in flyover states are just kind of like, like we have starvation here, too, and I don't like that.

[Angie Hbic]

But.

[Jennifer Welch]

But that is the way we were raised. Ethnocentric Americans.

[Sammy Sage]

So you asked a lot of questions. I'm gonna try to answer them all. And please interrupt me as I'm. Because I think there's. There's a lot of pieces to this conversation that have become connected, even though they are not necessarily connected. And I think that. But first thing you've identified, like, a complete problem, you know, a completely clear problem that I think a lot of people are experiencing. And. And that's how, you know, I perceive that as being the landscape that's out there. I want to say I'm not speed. I can't really speak for all. All Jewish people. And I think that that's actually one of the problems. Like you said, like, most people don't really know what's going on in the Middle East. Most people don't really know many j. At all. They know them by stereotypes. I will say that I am sort of myself, kind of a walking, talking Jewish stereotype. And, you know, you know, I don't want to say, you know, I don't want to say that because I don't know what people are thinking when they say that. But in terms of, like, the old school, you know, work in media and come from, you know, Long island and went to summer camp. And my, you know, my family. My grandparents were Holocaust survivors. You know, we're in Auschwitz. They actually met in a displaced person's camp.

[Jennifer Welch]

Camp.

[Sammy Sage]

And it's, you know, I sort of have that sort of, you know, average, you know, Jewish, suburban New York, secular upbringing. But I have an interesting experience. And then I have actually. I actually moved to Israel for almost a year when I was 24. And in that experience, I saw a lot of what, you know, the. The roots of. Are some of the roots of what's happening now there. And I think a lot of people would assume, oh, I would come out of that experience and be like, oh, like, you don't understand what it's like to live in Israel. And, like, it's. You know, it's. That is true. I think it's a very different environment. But I think, if anything, it gave me more texture for both sides.

[Jennifer Welch]

And.

[Sammy Sage]

And it didn't really make me feel like, oh, I'm in the tank for, like, one perspective or the other. I think that what we have there is, like, a very unique and nuanced human problem. And I think people want to sort of say, oh, there's no nuance. It's not complicated. And I'm not talking about, like, what's happening now. I'm talking about the entire conflict. And I'm guessing that growing up in where you did around a lot of evangelicals, you probably seen a very particular perspective on why on Jewish people and on Israel. And it's seen through the eyes of evangelicals, which in my view, kind of just like want us all to get there so that they can kill us and have their own gate. End times.

[Jennifer Welch]

Let me, this is one of the times I'm going to jump in. Here's the evangelical mindset that we grew up around there. There's very quick to make Jew jokes. White evangelicals, they're very quick to be anti Semitic. But also with the. In the same sentence, it's, oh, but our Lord and personal savior was a Jew and the Jews need to be in Israel for him to return. Which I think is a very anti Semitic, dismissive lack of acknowledging people's agency and autonomy. But I mean, here's the thing, Sammy. I'm an atheist. So when I start hearing people talk about magical thinking, whether it's the Jews saying they're chosen people and they're supposed to be in Israel, honestly, I think that's kind of fucking crazy. When I hear, and I know that a bunch of Jews would be like, oh, my God, Jennifer Welch is an anti Semite, but I'm an atheist. So I think magic foreign policy based on magical thinking is stupid and dangerous. I've never been indoctrinated into any religion. When I hear evangelicals talk about rapture prepping and the Jews being in Israel, I think that's dangerous. I think when we base foreign policy on magical thinking, it harms people and it places a hierarchy of who's better and who's worse and whose lives are more valuable and whose lives are less valuable. And religion categorizes us. And that's what I see at the epicenter of a lot of this conflict right now.

[Sammy Sage]

I think you're absolutely right. And I think that the problem, it. Part of the problem is that Israel became politicized. And a lot of that that was really due to Netanyahu wanting to kind of play these games where it was like, Israel wasn't a question of national security or policy or, you know, an economic question or like a, you know, a democratic human rights type of question. It became about a pot, like a political pawn that they used as a cudgel against Obama and playing and, you know, this politicization of, you know, the Iran Deal. But I want to get back to a few things about, you know, talking about the religion. So I have an interesting feel, feeling about religion, because having been immersed in it, I really feel a strong separation between organized religion and religious practice and spirituality. And I think that spirituality is something that can, across all religions. And I think that the kind of core tenet of it is what ultimately has drawn people to religions in the first place. But it ends up getting corrupted by people who want to give it structure and turn it into essentially like a high control group.

[Jennifer Welch]

And a business.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, and a bit. And a business. Of course, where we are.

[Jennifer Welch]

We have major church businesses.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, right, of course. And boycott megachurches where you. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.

[Jennifer Welch]

It.

[Sammy Sage]

But I think that that's an exploitation of like, a natural human yearning to feel a part of something maybe that you can't see or like a higher purpose. And I think that that's something that could really only happen in someone's, like, own mind and own home and their own family. And that's why you see so many people, like, posturing. And I think that's why, like, organized religion sort of incentivizes that by making it so external rather than about, like the quiet sort of thing that, like, how do you treat other people? At the bottom of every religion, they'll all say, oh, the most important thing is, like the golden rule, like, treat people as you want to be treated. Don't treat people as you don't want to be treated. Every religion sort of has that and says that that's like their core, but they don't actually do that, that. Because that's not what's rewarded in religious communities.

[Jennifer Welch]

So what I want to jump into right now is, as you. You spoke about, like, Jewish people are not a monolith. And you see protests some in Israel where people are, you know, not in our name, and they don't want this war to go on. But you see that this Netanyahu has really. The only bipartisan stuff that I see in the United States Senate Congress right now is support of Israel. And I see how beholden the politicians that I want to have moral clarity, like a Cory Booker or Hakeem Jeffries, how they don't fucking have it. So everything that comes out of their mouth, Sammy, everything I just think is bullshit. I think when Cory Booker goes off about immigrant children getting deported, but he votes to fund to send bombs to Israel to a maniac, Benjamin Netanyahu, I just think it's so morally depraved. But again, it's a really difficult thing to tiptoe and walk in because everybody feels like they're on eggshells that your Jewish friends are going to say you're anti Semitic. It's like, I'm not. I, I, I know how daunting it must have been to grow up with the trauma of the Holocaust. I've been to Dachau, I've studied this. When I just went, I was in London and I saw Cabare. The guy took off his jacket and it showed that he had a swastika on his arm still to this day. And I'm not Jewish. I was like, oh, like just seeing the swastika just made me go. But then I think this, Sammy, I think how are the people that this happened to? How are these people doing this to Palestinians? And everybody dicks over the Palestinians. I was researching it and it's like Arab countries dick them over. Israel dicks them over, the United States dicks them over. Nobody fights for the Palestinians ends. And that's who I want to fight for. This progressive atheist woman. I want to fight for the most marginalized. That's who I want to choose. If we talk about chosen. That's who I want to choose to help are those people. And that's, and I have no spiritual life at all. But I feel a moral calling that those are the people that need us the most.

[Sammy Sage]

I, I mean I completely agree with you. I think that this, the, the problem is that this has become a politicized and weaponized thing. There are a lot of dynamics as to right now. The Palestinians have been exploited and have been pawns for I would say at at least 15 years.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Of, since 20 years since Hamas came into power there. They had, have been basically used as a pawn between Netanyahu and Iran. And because Netanyahu has essentially enabled them to stay there because he doesn't want to allow the Palestinian Authority, he doesn't want the west bank in Gaza to be able to create a Palestinian state. That came, that you know, came after years of kind of like, oh there will we try to do a two state solution. But that's where it really broke down. Down. And that's where the second intifada and you know, there was this degradation within Israeli society and both became radicalized. And I think what happened on October 7 was that this people in Israel became so fearful. Like the level of that attack on everywhere made people just feel like their safety was not where they thought it was. And it just I think really radicalized people and I think that Netanyahu took advantage of that. Not only that, but he. There were warnings, there were many warnings that this was going to happen.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

And people say, people in Israel say like, oh, he's the defender. But what I always say to them is like, okay, well then if this person is your defender, how did they let this happen when it wasn't even really a surprise? And you know, maybe the day was a surprise, but they knew that there was, they were planning this scale of attack and it was ignored. And I think what you're looking at is sort of just a very classic situation of really bad actors who don't give one shit about the people under their subjugation at this point.

[Jennifer Welch]

It reminds me of Cheney using 911 to go into Iraq. I mean, it's the same thing. Once you get the public scared and think that this is in the interest of national security and a safety, then you can lie to them and then you can go commit war crimes, which the United States did in Iraq. I mean, it's just a complete stain on our country. But it reminds me of that.

[Sammy Sage]

My root, my, my feeling on this. And this is kind of what I say to the people in my life who are, are more hawkish. How can you get rid of Hamas? You can just make more. Like, you just make more people. It's an ideology that you cannot stamp out. And they will, they, they will even acknowledge this because it aligns with their like biblical ideology that you can't totally get rid of anti Semitism, that there will always be people who hate, hate Jews. And I kind of think that's true. But I do think that there are ways to, for people's opinions to change. And I also think there are social structures within a society. I think in a small l. Liberal, small d Democratic society, that's where Jews are able to thrive because that's where you have freedom of religion. And I think what happened in Israel is that you have like an increasingly autocratic society. And Hama, there's. There are even records that Hamas decided to attack on October 7th because of the division, because Bibi had tried to create these judicial reforms so that he could stay in office. So he and his trying to make Israel more anti democratic so that he could stay out of jail for taking bribes. Which seems so quaint at this point, right? It's like, no, no, literally, it's like cigars and chocolates and like in exchange for like favorable media coverage. It's so like 2018. It's so he is trying to. And Israeli Politics are deeply, deeply dysfunctional. He was trying to stay out of jet. He was trying to stay out of prison and not be tried. And for. Because of that, you had, because he was threatening to make these constitutional reforms. You had so many protests. People were the most against him they've ever been. And you had people threatening to not go to the military. Everyone in Israel has to enroll in the military or in some sort of like, state service, or they get an exemption if they're studying in Yeshiva, which is actually the wedge issue that might threaten to collapse Bibi's coalition in the end, if that's even possible. But, yeah, you have really just someone who is not acting in the best interests of Israelis. And I think if you look at what like Mandy Patinkin said, he's kind of saying, and I'm really not on the, you know, I'm not trying to be on the road of, like, blaming Jews for anti Semitism. In fact, I think people, like, really don't listen to Jews when we try to explain what anti Semitism is, probably because people are so sick of being accused of being anti Semitic, but they really don't necessarily know the intricacies of it. But, yeah, I think what this, this is, is a situation where bad actors are getting cover from, are basically just getting cover from. From the situation. And don't you think you're.

[Jennifer Welch]

Of the Israeli government right now is the biggest growing factor of anti Semitism? I mean, because I, I don't see.

[Sammy Sage]

How you could point to anything else. Else.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

And, and many will. I mean, I don't. Again, I don't want to get into, like, the victim blaming of it all, because I think that that's sort of like, I think, But I don't think.

[Jennifer Welch]

In this instance they're the, the Israeli government is not the victim. They are propagandists, liars, perpetrators, murderers. They're starving people, even their own hostages. Or when you starve the population, then you're starving these hostages that you claim to want back. And at the end of the day, you speak about a lot of the things because you're a Jewish American and you've had this, this experience that you said is typical of a Jewish American. What I have to say is, and this is probably painful for Jewish Americans to hear, but why should the American taxpayer care so much about Israel? Like, when I drive to rural towns in Oklahoma and I see the living conditions and now I know that their hospitals are getting close, think that, okay, in Israel they have health care, you're able to access Your all sorts of government assistance. If you're a Jewish person, you want a safe place to live. I'm sure a lot of African Americans would love such an opportunity. After years and years and years of oppression by white, patriarchal, crusty old men in this country. What a gift, what a privilege it would be to have all of these politicians create a safe space for black Americans. You know, we recently had a kid that worked for us that was shot. And if we're talking about making safe spaces and taxpayers are funding them, why is the Israeli issue more, you know, higher up than everybody else's needs? And so I. I read that they think they're chosen by God. Which brings me back to, like, this can't be a foreign policy. We can't base foreign policy and taxpayer money on magical thinking. Like, as a person who's completely secular and y', all, you know, you talk about spirituality and all that, great swing for the fences when it comes to policy and making decisions that affect people's lives. I think it has to be absolutely secular. And I think magical thinking is so incredibly dangerous.

[Sammy Sage]

I. Well, first, I would argue that one of the reasons Israel is so top of mind is less because of the Jews and more because of the evangelicals. And of course, there is, like, a strong Israel lobby, but there's also a strong Saudi Arabia lobby and Qatar lobby. And, like, I think there's, like, you know, we can talk about. About that. Okay, first thing, the chosen people. That is a bastardization that I think even Jews sort of have misunderstood. Chosen in the context of Judaism is means chosen to follow the Torah. It's like that. It's not like, oh, you're this special people. It's like, you are. You were given the Torah and you're supposed to follow it. It's actually kind of like a hassle if you think about it. It's like, it's not like. Like this. It's not supposed to be like, we're special. But again, like, these things get sort of bastardized through. Through, like, secularization. And just the fact that people don't really know that much about.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's true.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. To your point about why, you know, why is Israel so. So important? You know, the point you're making is really, like, no different than the point I think people make about, like, why are we funding Ukraine? The difference is that Netanyahu is not acting quite as the profile and courage that Vladimir Zelensky has acted as. And that, I think, is a. That wasn't always the case with the American Israel. Alliance. And to your point about, you know, how people have a place to go in Israel, I, I would argue like America should be making reparations of some sort to black people. Like I, you know, whether, whether or not it's like payments, there should be like, you know, why aren't there sort of like tax breaks or, or you know, student loan repayments perhaps?

[Jennifer Welch]

I think I know the answer to that.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Racism.

[Sammy Sage]

And again, like there's. Yeah. I think that like the evangelical support has been in America. Like, it's because America is kind of like a Christian nation totally. That, that the Jews are like a good, you know, you know, like they need us for, for their own reasons, but for the rapture. Agree with you that there should be separation of church and state. Like, that should not come into play here. But at the end of the day, like, what has all of this achieved for the Palestinians for Jewish people who feel really unsafe.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

In America. And I can, can, I think I can maybe like explain that a little bit better so that you maybe don't feel like maybe, maybe people will be a little bit more understanding of how like why Jews feel like everything is so anti Semitic. And I think sometimes like people like overplay it. Like, I know there are people who would think that your point of view is anti Semitic. I really don't believe that. I don't feel that you are like, I know that you're like, you just want everyone to feel will fair, you know, everyone to live free, be able to practice their religion and not have another's imposed on them and also not be killed.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think that the situation is the way I see it. As somebody who's in the middle of the country and have conversations with other liberals slash progressives in my state that are not, you know, maybe raised Christian light, not evangelical secular is number one. It seems to hold the Democratic Party hostage. And if you live in a state like Oklahoma and there's a total abortion ban and you're ranked 50th in education, you have all these issues. Right. And you're not religious at all. And then you start like just hearing you talking about Zionists, not Zionist, the Holy Land. I'm just like, who gives a shit? And I know people are like, oh my God, you're Jewish. I'm not like, and, and like the fact that we would base foreign policy off of God, telling a group of people that you get to have this piece of land. I'm sorry, I think that's crazy, but I'm an equal opportunity critic of all of this. I think Sharia law is crazy. I think Christian nationalism is crazy. I think anytime we integrate religion into decision making, particularly when militaries are involved in that, it's rectified, reckless and dangerous. And I think it's Iron Age thinking in a modern world. As a secular person, I always hear people that have to somehow pretzel themselves back to Iron Age thinking and books that were written two or four thousand.

[Sammy Sage]

Years ago and much more explaining, explaining why people do believe this. And your point is the. Is the real one. I don't really understand why we're making foreign policy based on that either. The issue is that it. Our government is corrupted by religious nationalist interests overall. And it's, it's not a Democrat or a Republican problem. It is and you know, it's like an oligarchic problem. It's like this set of people who are, who are influential and wealthy and get to make decisions on a transnational level. That is, these are the interests that we're kind of stuck with. And you know, the, the. Do any of these people give a about like the starving Gossens? No, they don't. They use them as pawns. They use them as like, you know, to engagement farm and to like, polarize people and to stir up hatred. It's like, like it doesn't help. And they definitely don't care about the Jews that they claim to care about. It's. Yeah.

[Angie Hbic]

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[Jennifer Welch]

I feel like a lot of people are pawns and the thought that like you would feel unsafe as a Jewish person in America. That or if it's you or any Jew, I I hate that. Like I, I, I as a progressive person that has empathy that that, that triggers me and makes me every bit as sad as much as my black mom friend who had to tell her son when he walked down the street not to have his hoodie on over his head that her son felt that unsafe. So anybody not feeling safe because of their skin color or because of their religion is something as a progressive I want to advocate against. But that same Empathy. The same thought track that I have for the black mother that I have for any Jewish American on a college camp campus or anywhere. That same compassion also goes to Palestine. And that's where I think people get frustrated with some of the voices in Jewish spaces, because there is.

[Angie Hbic]

You get police lack of empathy.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I, I'm with you on that. And I think that that is a problem that plagues a lot of, a lot of issues. Like, I think about this with like, the trans issue all the time. It's like, if you really. These kids have some sort of like, mental illness and they're like, so wayward. It's like, well, then why do you treat them like, right? Why do you. Why are you so mean to them? It's like there's this lack of empathy and it's like this sort of like, giddiness at, at spurning, like, the value of life. And what I think is that that is very antithetical to Judaism and Jewish practice. And it's like, like, you know, that. And it kind of kills me when, you know, people bring up like, oh, the hot. What about the hostages? It's like, yeah, Netanyahu didn't give a. About the hostages from day one. It's like, he doesn't give a. About them now. Talk to me. Basically any hostage family, they will all tell you that they don't care about them. So it's like, how can you possibly, like, yell at the, you know, the random American online who's like, just doesn't put the hostages front of mind when, like, the leader of the Jews doesn't.

[Angie Hbic]

It's.

[Jennifer Welch]

It.

[Sammy Sage]

I completely am with you. And it, to me, it physically hurts me when I read comments from, you know, Ben Gavir and Smotrich. Like, I, like, I'm like, yeah, it physically hurts me. And that's where I come from too, where I'm like, where I feel the same as you. It's like, even if, you know, I'm not, not privy to the, you know, the Israeli military secrets, but I do know that I wouldn't ignore warnings of such an attack so that I could keep myself in power because, you know, I think that I can now use this as a weapon. If I actually cared about life, anyone's, I would try to prevent that and not, you know, warmonger further in a land grab. And it does put the Jews in jeopardy. And it, it's just, I think what people want and maybe I hope that I, you know, I don't know if I can say this for all people But I think it's, I think you. The hardest thing for Jewish people is that there's this like, lack of listening about what it actually, like why they, why we feel quote, unquote unsafe. And it's that there are so many people who do confuse or a purposely confound Israel and what the Israeli government's doing as with just all Jews, as being representative of all Jews. And that, that is, you know, and that us, you know, advocating for ourselves or trying to explain is somehow like diminishing what's happening to the Palestinians when like the place I'm always coming from is like, how would we like it if that happened to us?

[Jennifer Welch]

Us?

[Sammy Sage]

And I'll say like, when I went, when I lived in Israel, I had many formative experiences on both sort of ends of the spectrum that, you know, between, you know, between Palestinians and Israelis that made me just feel like, how would you each like it? You know, kind of was my, was my feeling and it was very, was very eye opening because, you know, both advocates for both sides will sort of like fire things at each other, you know, points at each other. And it's like, yeah, you're all right. And none of you are trying to actually come up with a solution. So.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, yeah, I just, I, I think I follow you. Obviously we've been on your podcast and I follow you on Instagram and you do some really good takes on this. And I think, think that credible messengers are really important, especially right now. And I think like, like Andy Bershear and that James Talarico, they're good. Talking to Christians about Christian nationalism. The atheist white lady in Oklahoma, I have not a credible messenger. The same goes for this situation. And I think, you know, Jon Stewart spoke out recently and it's very poignant things to say. And you are, if you don't listener, if you don't follow Sammy, follow her because she really covers this objectively. It shows you that any sort of thinking that we have where the sentences start with oh, the Jews, blah, blah, blah, and you lump people together is the same thing as lumping any other group of people together. They're not a monolith. Because I think when this originally all first started happening, I was skeptical to speak out on it because I do have a lot of Jewish friends and quite frankly there are a lot of my very favorite people. And politically I've always, in Oklahoma, you've got these right wing Christian nationalists and the Jewish people in our state have always, you know, supported progressive causes, supported a woman's right to choose, been Huge allies for the LGBTQ community. Much more humane and empathetic people than all of the evangelicals I grew up around. Were really, truly some of the cruelest people. I mean, always told me I was going to hell, always trying to convert me. Jewish people in my lives were like, we don't even believe in hell. And I was like, oh, I like that. Well, we don't have to recruit anybody else. Like, oh, I like that. And so I think that there is a time right now where probably Jews are going to feel uncomfortable and some of that discomfort is warranted because of what? When, when injustice is exposed, it's uncomfortable. But then there's also a safety issue where, you know, I've seen firsthand and been in white WASP circles a lot, where I hear racist stuff, where I hear anti Semitic stuff. I've heard it my whole life, Sammy. And I could go into the, you know, a country club right now and I'd hear that, that stuff. And so I just think you're a really good voice and I want to amplify that. There are people that are, that are Jewish that see the same thing that everybody else sees and connect our sense of, of humanity. And when we all see human suffering, Jewish people see it too. And it must be a double edged sword because a lot of people think, you know, uninformed Americans or people on the global stage think you're responsible for this simply because you're Jewish. And that's just simply not the case. It is. That would be like saying, I was just, I was just in Europe, that I'm responsible for allegations or alcohol, Alcatraz, just because I'm American and I don't want, I completely disapprove of everything that MAGA does, but I am an American. There's nothing I can do about that.

[Sammy Sage]

Exactly. I think it's. I know this because a lot of people come to me and say, you know, thank you for, for speaking this way. Like, I agree with you. It's hard to articulate because there's really. No, it doesn't feel good. Good. It feels really easy to just be like, I'm super all in on this side or I'm super all in on this side. And just to see things very like black and white and not, you know, sort of just ignore the, the pieces of the argument that, that don't, like, jive with your side. And I, I think that it's like I'm, I kind of am inspired to care about, about politics and to care about, you know, progressive ideals by my Judaism by the fact that, you know, we want to heal people. You know, we want equality, we want freedom. Like, I know that it's also a matter of, like, Jewish safety to live in a free society. I think a lot of people don't really necessarily understand that. And I, I really appreciate you seeing that. And I, I want to encourage more people to kind of be able to just come forward and talk in a. Like, a space where you maybe don't have to, like, know everything or defend everything or not, or, you know, not everything has to be this ultimate defense or criticism. Like, you can just try to share your experience. And I think the more, like, there's not enough voices in this sort of middle rational space that. And I wish that there were because. Because the only Palestinians are not getting less hungry because people are fighting for them online. Like, it's just not. It hasn't happened. And I think that it. Yeah, I, I just think a lot of this is really misguided.

[Jennifer Welch]

A lot of what is misguided?

[Sammy Sage]

A lot of the, like, online fighting. Like, that's not. Actually.

[Jennifer Welch]

I, I disagree. I think that when you see injustice and, And I think a lot of.

[Sammy Sage]

Things, like calling it out, I mean, like yelling at Jews, calling you like, a Zio or a Zion, what is that? What does that achieve?

[Jennifer Welch]

I completely. I. I think you have to keep your eye on the ball, and you have to keep your eye on the Israeli government. And it's the same thing that happened during the George W. Bush administration into the march in Iraq and Abu Ghraib and all of that. I didn't vote for him. I didn't vote for him two different times. I thought the whole thing, they attacked. Attacked the wrong country. And there were all of us waving our arms, saying, no, not in our name. No, not this, not this. And I think it's important that we find our. Our aligned and common humanity in this. And I want to leave you and our listener with this. So Oklahoma, very homogenous state live in. I did have, you know, because I was a Democrat, I am a Democrat, end up at these political fundraisers. I met some fabulous Jewish people, people that were politically aligned with me. But probably about six months ago, I was playing tennis with a girl that I played tennis with some. And she kind of is. Has really pretty, like, Mediterranean skin, dark hair. And I said, where, Where. Where's your background? Like, where are you from? And she said, oh, I'm Palestinian. And I just grabbed her hand because you don't meet many Palestinians in Oklahoma. And I grabbed her hand. And I said, I am so, so sorry about what's happening in your country. And she started sobbing, and she said, you're the only person in this entire city that has acknowledged to me that this would be painful. And I just. I can't thank you enough for showing me compassion. And because she has family over there and, you know, her childhood memories of you going to Israel, she has memories of going to Palestine. And so.

[Sammy Sage]

So, you know, people underestimate how much of a, like, personal, familial tie there are between Palestinians here and in. In Palestine and Jews here and in Israel. I think it's, like, not understood. But to. To what you're saying, like, think about how much more that does for someone or anyone than all the yelling at Jews online could never do. And I think if people center their efforts around compassion, around understanding, that will. You know, my feeling is that, like, that will be effective. Although, unfortunately, I've come to feel that, like, there's nothing that I can personally do which is very, very painful and been truly, like, miserable. Honestly.

[Jennifer Welch]

Honestly. Sammy, we have to go soon. But I do think you speaking, and I think, again, back to the credible messenger, it is the best thing that you can do for Jewish people to help promote Jewish safety is to say, look, I am a Jewish person. I oppose what this government is doing. It's simple. You know, we can get into history and all of those things. But for me, when I heard Jon Stewart, when I heard the guy from Homeland, I can't remember his name, but I just know him is, yes, him, Saul and Saul and you. When I hear that it. I'm. I'm immediately reminded this is exactly how I feel about Alligator Alcatraz. I oppose it. Every ounce of my DNA oppose it. So I think the best thing that you can do is come onto spaces like this. We have, obviously, a very progressive listenership that you have 100% in common with. Compassion, empathy, human rights, social justice, LGBTQ rights, women's rights, Jewish safety, Palestinian safety. And I think it's so important, and it was why I really, really wanted to have a longer episode and have you on, to remind people that there are many, many victims of fascist government governments. And even the people that fascist governments say they're trying to keep safe are often victims of those governments. And so I can't thank you enough for coming on. I think it's a. It's uncomfortable, but I think we all have to talk about this because it is really captivating American politics right now, and it's just wrong. What we're seeing.

[Sammy Sage]

Thank you. I mean, thank you for having me. I'm happy to, you know, try to elucidate to the extent I can. And. And, you know, I hope I didn't say anything that, you know, comes across misunderstood or, you know, offended anyone. I'm, you know, I'm happy to talk about it and, like, hear feedback, because I feel like the only way that you're gonna come to a broader understanding.

[Jennifer Welch]

I agree. I completely agree. And I think it's. I think it's just. I think that's what the spaces are made for, podcasting. They're made to have combos, to have these types of conversations where we learn. Learn about each other from each other.

[Sammy Sage]

I agree.

[Jennifer Welch]

Sammy. You know, we love you. All right, have a great day, and we'll. Thanks so much for coming on, and we'll text you next time we're in New York. I think that's a really brave thing that she's doing. I think it's just incredibly brave because it would be. It's such a powder keg, this whole issue right now.

[Kylie]

And.

[Jennifer Welch]

And, you know, you would just kind of want to stick your, you know, just like, I just want to stay out of public. Everybody's so riled up about this, and there are many, many progressive Jews that oppose with everything in them, all of this bullshit that. And war crimes and genocide that Benjamin Netanyahu is doing, and it would be a very uncomfortable space to be sitting in. So I think her messaging is so important.

[Angie Hbic]

I think it's so important. And she leads with empathy for everybody. And I think that's what we're missing in the United States and in Israel. And I think it is so important to make the distinction between the government of Israel and the people. And they're different. You know, they're just as radicalized over there as we are here. And the lack of empathy here and the difference between a Christian nationalist and being raw rah for Alligator Alcatraz, and then being a liberal person, I mean, it all boils down to empathy when I see it. Like, these corrupt governments, they're all about money and oligarchy. Lack of empathy across the board.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I agree. All right, thanks for tuning in for our long, extended podcast today, Pumps.

[Angie Hbic]

Tell them we will see you next Tuesday and Thursday.

[Jennifer Welch]

What I've had it with.

[Sammy Sage]

Let's hear it.

[Jennifer Welch]

I've had it with that. Listen up, patriots, gatriots and natriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called I Hip News. It's Monday through Friday. Every day, 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America. Always served with a side of petty grievances.

[Angie Hbic]

We are on all the the available platforms. Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcast and YouTube.

[Jennifer Welch]

Please go, rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps, pumps. What does an eagle say? Caca. A little bit more enthusiasm. Kaka. That's it. That's, that's, that's the patriotism that this country needs right there.