Podcast Summary: Jabin Chavez Leadership Podcast

Episode: Creating Systems That Serve The Culture Pt. 2 | #062
Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Jabin Chavez

Overview of Episode Theme

In this episode, Jabin Chavez explores how leaders can build and refine systems that serve the vision and culture of their organizations. This is part two of a series on systems, with a focus on the necessity of consistent evaluation, the dangers of becoming too attached to existing methods, and practical advice for evolving practices as organizations grow. While drawing on his experience as a pastor and organizational leader, Jabin underscores the importance of adaptability, intentional planning, and how systems act as the “rails” guiding and protecting the culture leaders wish to build.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Systems Are Not Sacred—The Message and Vision Are

• Jabin opens by emphasizing that systems should never be treated as sacred:

  “The system is not sacred. The system is not sacred. You are not your system. You are your culture. But the culture, who you are, can only go as far as the system.” (02:00)

• Leaders often mistake their own preferences for the needs of the organization—systems must adapt for the mission, not personal comfort or nostalgia.

2. The Relationship Between Systems and Culture

• Systems function as the “mind” or structure, while culture is the “heart” or passion of the organization.

  "The culture of the organization is the feeling, it's the emotion, it's the guts... But the systems are the mind and the thinking and the mindset." (00:40)

• A healthy dynamic requires both: culture sets direction, but systems ensure sustainable progress.

3. The Need for Continual Reevaluation

• Systems should constantly be reassessed and updated as organizational needs change.

  “Every system should be constantly reevaluated, constantly scrutinized. This is uncomfortable because we're getting now feedback on our systems.” (06:30)

• Resistance to change is often a red flag:

  “When someone is too attached to their systems, that is a sign of an unhealthy culture. ‘Well, we've always done it this way’ ... The systems should be constantly being reevaluated, challenged, pressed for what’s best for right now.” (02:55)

4. Systems Must Serve the Mission, Not Personal Preferences

• Jabin uses the example of church service times and styles:

  "The system, never about your preference or what is best for you. The system is always about what is best for the vision and the mission... We can't do [a three-hour service] and reach this community. We can't do that and grow." (04:00)

• Outdated systems lead to stagnation or decline.

5. Practical Application: Identify and Change Limiting Systems

• Leaders should regularly ask: What is a system you could change today that would make a meaningful difference?

  “What system could you change today that would help you reach more people? ... What is a system that you could change today? One little thing, one little tweak.” (07:05)

• Jabin shares about expanding church services and strategic advice from other leaders:

  “We're in four services. We need a fifth. If we add a fifth service, we automatically grow immediately... I was talking to an amazing pastor... He said, ‘Jabin, you need to go to six services.’ And I just, you know, I'm on the phone going, [gulp]...” (07:30)

6. Personal Systems: The Leader’s Weekly Flow

• Jabin details his own weekly rhythm as an example:

  “Monday for me is a day off. Tuesday for me is meetings. Wednesday for me is more meetings... Thursday for me is sermon prep. Friday for me is a flex day…” (09:10)

• He encourages listeners to determine their own most effective routines, constantly evaluating if their current flow is serving their life and leadership or hindering growth.

7. Systems Bring Security and Enable Growth

• Well-designed systems provide direction and safety:

  “Every road needs lanes, every train needs rails, every church, every organization needs systems.” (10:34)

• Growth creates new “mess” and new challenges—leaders need to build systems that handle those challenges:

  “A healthy culture is going to create problems because it's going to create growth. So you're going to need better systems for the problem that the culture is creating." (11:10)

8. Memorable Metaphor: The Airline System

• Jabin uses his travel experience to illustrate the invisible importance of good systems:

  "Between me and the vision and the mission and the dream is a system. The system is called the airline industry... The system is necessary for the vision.” (12:26)

• Just as careful planning gets him home after a long trip, effective systems are what bridge the gap between vision and reality.

9. Concluding Challenge

• Jabin closes by urging leaders to take tangible steps:

  “What is one thing you could change today, right now? What's one thing you could change today that would improve your church and help your church grow? ... Do it and then think of another thing and then another thing and then another thing. Start making changes to your system. Everything will change in your organization.” (14:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You don’t rise to the level of your intentions. You drop to the level of your systems.” (01:44)
• “When someone is too attached to their systems, that is a sign of an unhealthy culture.” (02:55)
• “The system is never about my preference ... It’s about what’s best for the organization.” (04:15)
• “Every system should be constantly reevaluated, constantly scrutinized. This is uncomfortable.” (06:30)
• “[Growth] is going to create problems … you’re going to need better systems for the problem that the culture is creating.” (11:10)
• “Between me and the vision and the mission and the dream is a system.” (12:26)

Key Timestamps

• 00:40 – Distinguishing culture from systems
• 02:00 – Systems are not sacred; continual reevaluation
• 04:00–04:15 – Systems vs. leader preferences; evolution in church service models
• 06:30 – Feedback and discomfort in revising systems
• 07:05 – Asking what systems can be changed today
• 07:30 – Growing through adding/changing service times
• 09:10 – Personal systems and weekly leader routines
• 10:34 – Systems bring security and stability
• 11:10 – Growth as both blessing and challenge
• 12:26 – Metaphor: airline travel and systems
• 14:18 – Call to action: make changes, improve the organization

Final Takeaway

This episode challenges leaders to treat their culture and vision as sacred, but to hold their systems loosely, always ready to improve and evolve for greater effectiveness. Successful leadership depends not just on intention and passion, but on creating, evaluating, and refreshing the systems that transform vision into consistent reality.