Leadership Questions with Jabin Chavez & Gerald Brooks | #060

Summary

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Jabin Chavez Leadership Podcast

Episode #060 – Leadership Questions with Jabin Chavez & Gerald Brooks
Release Date: October 16, 2024

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Main Theme & Overview

In this episode, host Jabin Chavez welcomes back his friend and seasoned pastor, Gerald Brooks, for a dynamic Q&A session centered on foundational leadership questions. Brooks brings over four decades of pastoral and organizational experience, sharing wisdom on commitment, growth, church community, mentorship, marriage, and parenting. The conversation is candid, filled with humor and practical insights for leaders wanting to strengthen their faith, leadership longevity, and personal relationships—whether in ministry or other leadership contexts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Centrality of the Local Church

• [01:37] Why Be "All In" on the Local Church?
  • Brooks underscores the unique divine design of the church: “There’s only one God-made organization on this planet and it is the church. Every other organization is a man-made organization. Jesus said, ‘I will build my church.’” (Gerald Brooks, 01:37)
  • He explains the distinction between learning from a distance (like online sermons) and the transformative growth that only occurs in authentic, in-person community, citing: “We are a society based on information. The Kingdom of God is based on transformation. And transformation happens in rooms.” (B, 03:11)
  • Emphasizes that the church isn’t about making everyone the center of attention, rather, it’s about being part of a body.

2. Navigating Church Growth & Building Transitions

• [05:43] The Reality of Moving into a New Building
  • Brooks warns that moving into a new building solves logistical issues but doesn’t guarantee growth or a vibrant atmosphere.
  • “A lot of what happens is people expect that new building is going to resolve every problem and the tension of the church. And the truth of the matter is the church is not a building. It's these people.” (B, 06:15)
  • Culture and connection must be consciously rebuilt after such transitions.
  • He shares a practical commitment challenge: “When you move into a new building, this room has to make a six-month commitment. You’re not going to leave because it’s hard.” (B, 09:38) The sustainability of children’s, youth, and volunteer ministries depends on the commitment of established members through the transition.
  • Anecdote: His church grew by 1,200 people in one week after a building move, but assimilation and building leadership among newcomers took months.

3. Longevity in Leadership and Ministry

• [11:24] Surviving and Thriving Over Decades
  • Brooks reveals that staying in one place and one calling is key: “Great trees are trees that stay planted…You can never build anything great because you’re not planted long enough.” (B, 12:52)
  • Shares a sobering statistic from biblical leadership: “What we know is only 25% of them [biblical leaders] finished in the will of God…Your commitment is renewed day by day. You don’t live off yesterday’s commitment. You live off today’s commitment.” (B, 14:10)
  • The encouragement is to make daily, conscious decisions to remain committed, both to the church and to relationships.
  • Brooks reminds the team: “If it is possible for you to lock your arms together and be a team for the future…one day you’ll stand before Jesus and you’ll get to say, hey, there were 1700 people that got saved in 2024. And you get to say you shared in that moment.” (B, 16:10)

4. The Influence of Spiritual Fathers

• [17:31] Lessons Learned from Kenneth E. Hagin
  • Brooks attributes his prayer life to Hagin: “If you don’t know what to do, pray. If you still don’t know what to do, pray longer.” (B, 17:54)
  • Faith is not a substitute for wisdom. Use both ‘biceps’: “Most people want to use their bicep faith muscle…I’m going to believe harder. And they never use their wisdom bicep.” (B, 18:20)
  • On responding to crisis and public failings: “If I don’t know what to do, I’m always going to err on the side of love.” (B, 20:27)

5. Marriage Wisdom from 48 Years

• [20:45] The Secret Ingredient
  • Brooks dispels the myth of marital fantasy: “The honeymoon period lasts two years. It’s a chemical-induced phase.” (B, 21:03)
  • The #1 factor in happy marriages: “If you have to reduce it to one quality, it is the frequency with which they say thank you.” (B, 21:33)
  • Intentional gratitude prevents relationships from becoming stale.
  • Never make long-term decisions during temporary seasons.

6. Parenting in a Modern Context

• [23:22] Advice for Christian Parents
  • Brooks reflects on his experience with three children and six grandchildren.
  • Parenting changes as you become more experienced: “Your first child probably has a legal right to sue you…when it’s your first kid and they swallow a quarter, you rush them to the emergency room. Your second kid, you wait till it’s passed. The third kid, you deduct it from their allowance.” (B, 24:25)
  • Foundational parenting approach: “Pray more, talk less. If talking to kids would change them, our kids would be perfect. But if you’re going to pray more, know what you’re praying.” (B, 25:53)
  • Points listeners to his book for five specific prayers he prays for his kids.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 01:37 | Brooks | “There’s only one God made organization on this planet and it is the church. Every other organization is a man made organization. Jesus said, I will build my church.” | | 03:11 | Brooks | “Is it true that we can learn from distance? Yes. But we grow in person…transformation happens in rooms.” | | 09:38 | Brooks | “When you move into a new building, this room has to make a six month commitment. You’re not going to leave because it’s hard.” | | 12:52 | Brooks | “Great trees are trees that stay planted...You can never build anything great because you’re not planted long enough.” | | 17:54 | Brooks | “If you don’t know what to do, pray. If you still don’t know what to do, pray longer.” (attributed to Kenneth E. Hagin) | | 20:27 | Brooks | “If I don’t know what to do, I’m always going to err on the side of love.” | | 21:33 | Brooks | “If you have to reduce it to one quality, it is the frequency with which they say thank you.” | | 25:53 | Brooks | “Pray more, talk less. If talking to kids would change them, our kids would be perfect.” |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:37] – Why the Church? Importance of local, in-person church community.
• [05:43] – Navigating growth and moving into new facilities.
• [11:24] – Longevity as a leader; staying planted for generational impact.
• [17:31] – Lessons from spiritual fathers (Kenneth E. Hagin).
• [20:45] – Marriage advice from 48 years of experience.
• [23:22] – Modern parenting, prayer, and connection with children.

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Tone & Energy

The conversation is honest, warm, humorous, and pastoral. Brooks blends personal anecdotes with deeply practical advice, often using self-deprecating humor and storytelling to illustrate his points. Jabin draws out Brooks’s wisdom with a tone that is both honoring and playful, keeping the discussion relatable and engaging.

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Summary Takeaways

• Commit to the church and to people: True transformation happens in committed, embodied community, not merely through information.
• Growth requires adaptation: Facilities change, but culture must be actively built and rebuilt.
• Longevity is rare—and a daily decision: Making daily renewed commitments to God, church, and each other surpasses passive attendance or emotional enthusiasm.
• Pray more than you advise: In leading families and teams, prayer and wisdom trump excessive talking.
• Gratitude in relationships: “Thank you” is a habit that sustains marriages and healthy environments.
• Lead with love and wisdom: Where action isn’t clear, choose the most loving course.

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(Interested listeners are encouraged to check out Gerald Brooks’ books and the Gerald Brooks Leadership Podcast for more leadership content.)

Transcript

[A]

I often tell young leaders, you cannot learn if you're talking. There is a reason that we do have two ears and just one mouth, because we need to be listening way more than we are speaking. Well, today I'm so excited about this leadership podcast because I'm going to again introduce you to my new friend, Gerald Brooks. We heard from him last week, we're going to hear from him again. And I just sat down with him and started asking him questions about life, marriage, ministry, leadership, you name it. And it was so powerful, you're gonna love this conversation. So buckle up and get ready to be blessed. Make sure that you're following Gerald. By the way, the Gerald Brooks Leadership Podcast. It's on all the podcast channels. He's incredible. You will learn so much from him and he will be so helpful to you as a leader. And then, big thank you to launch Sunday, launchsunday.com for sponsoring today's podcast. They mean the world to us and we're so grateful for them. Hey, enjoy this Q and A and get ready to get smarter, to go higher, and to develop your leadership gift. You're going to love it. The first question that I thought of, I wrote some down is you are a Christian and you are, you know, you love the Lord, but why the church? Like why, why should we be all in on the local church? Whether, whether we're at City Light or wherever God leads us. But why should we be all in on the local church?

[B]

Well, I think we, everyone has to realize there's only one God made organization on this planet and it is the church. Every other organization is a man made organization. Jesus said, I will build my church. And a lot of people like to talk about the last days, the end times, all of that. But to get to the end times, the first thing Jesus talks about is he talks about the church and he talks about seven of them. But he talks about how he walks in the midst of the candlesticks. And what I say is, when the world's ending, Jesus says he goes to church. That's what you should.

[A]

And amen to that. I just think, yeah, there's, there's so much, you know, and every generation has their thing, right? They're like, you know, 30 years ago is, well, I watch TBN. TBN's my church. You know, da, da da. Now it's, you know, I watch so and so online. That's my pastor. But why the local body in your city? Can you go maybe just a step further?

[B]

I'll take a step further. One I tell people don't ask me to bury you unless you're going to give me the privilege to pastor you. I don't want to bury the unknown parishioner.

[A]

Or marry them.

[B]

I want to be in a situation where, hey, you've been there. You've given me the privilege of having you on your good days, not just your bad days. And so the nature is that Jesus articulated. He said, sheep need a shepherd. Everyone needs a place that they can be pastored. Is it true that we can learn from distance? Yes. But we grow in person. And so we are a society based on information. The kingdom of God is based on transformation. And transformation happens in rooms. When you're around other people, they inspire you to be different, to be better. When you're interacting with people, you get to be the person who is a part. But even the things you just announced a minute ago, people have to understand every church service isn't for them. So sometimes you're going to teach on marriage and there's single people here. That's all right. And sometimes you're going to teach to singles and there's married people here. Well, you're not giving an altar call and saying, how many married people now want to be single?

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

You abide in the call wherewith he found you. But the truth of the matter is, is that you have to understand that church is about a body and it's about a group of people. And sometimes in a home, if one of our kids wasn't feeling well, they were center of attention. If one of them was succeeding and we were going to an event, they were going to be the center. If you go to church just to always be the center of attention, then you've quit being a healthy part of the church. So you have to be able to say amen to things that are good for others, not just amen for things that are good for you.

[A]

You're so wise. I can't wait.

[B]

My wife says. My wife says I'm full of it. I'm assuming she. I'm assuming she meant the Holy Spirit.

[A]

You're so bad honoring.

[B]

I'm not going to say that word again.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

That they put on my. Thank you, my card.

[A]

We will be cutting that from the. You shared something with me just before we came out. About 60% of churches will move into their. Their building, their dream, their whatever, and they stop growing. Can you, can you speak to that for us? We're looking to the building. We're excited about it, but can you just walk us through that season ahead?

[B]

Well, there's three reasons, Jabin, that churches quit growing. One, when you move into a new building, it creates possibilities, but it's not a dream. And you have to understand, is it going to be nice that you're not having to set up, tear down? Is it not going to be nice that you're having to get people here so early? But a lot of what happens is people expect that new building is going to resolve every problem and the tension of the church. And the truth of the matter is the church is not a building. It's this, it's these people. And then every, every room feels different. As much as this is a, a temporary room, you guys have created an atmosphere here. You know what it feels like when you move into a new building. You have to recreate atmosphere. And what, what immature Christians will say, and I apologize for using that phrase, is they'll say, well, it doesn't, therefore I'm going to leave. And it's that the atmosphere hasn't been created. You're going to have to create that worship feel. You're going to have to create that speaking feel. You're going to have to create that community feel that you have. Just the fact of what you did, you took a song and you took it beyond words and turned it into ministry. Join the hands of the people right next to you. All of that is something everyone has felt in this room. They know what it feels like. It's going to feel different in that next room. And one of the other things that's going to happen is that your church is going to grow massively when you move into. Our church grew 1200 people in one week. Now, let me, let me just tell you something. We didn't get that much better. In fact, it made me mad. It ticked me off. It bothered me that people thought we were now good because we had our own building. But what you have to understand is you're going to draw new people. But it takes you six months from the time they show up to get them serving, to get them giving, to get them participating. And what you're going to need to do is, is the old leaders are going to have to sustain until the new leaders can be grown up. And if this room doesn't stick with you for six months because it'll be easy for them to say you're adding a fourth service. But when all of a sudden you're saying, hey, does anyone out there help us with children's ministry? Because you're going to be packed back there in a new building and you're going to think we didn't build. And as you know, and you're wiser than a lot of the young guys that I hang around and try to help you build.

[A]

Shannon laughed. Can you just come up here, tell us what that laugh was? No, you said you're wiser. She went, yeah, no, I think you think I'm wise. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just his how she thinks as long.

[B]

As you keep me around, you're wise. But what's going to happen is people have to. When you move into a new building, this room has to make a six month commitment. You're not going to leave because it's hard. And if you don't do that, then there's not going to be enough children's workers, youth workers, nursery workers, and that will stop the church from growing. And so if this room doesn't make a six month commitment and say six months, we'll do whatever it takes. But then when you get to heaven, God's going to look at you and say you created the foundation of a church that eventually had. It's like if you come to our church, you know, we do like you, we track, you know, so far this year, I think we've had 3,400 people get saved in our church. And so I love that you put that number up there. But when we started our church, we weren't smart. I wasn't smart like you. For the first 10 years, I didn't even count people getting saved. Can you believe a pastor who's that dumb? Why would you ever have him teach leadership at your church? But beginning from 30 years, you know, for the last 30 years we've had 65,000 people get saved in our altars. Well, if you folks will make a 60 month commitment, everyone who gets saved from that point forward, when you get to heaven, Jesus is going to say, well done, my good and faithful servant.

[A]

So 40, 40 years now pastoring Grace Plano, right? 40 years.

[B]

42.

[A]

Yeah, 42 since you planted that church. How do you last, how do you last in, in every area of your life? How do you keep the faith that long? How do you serve God that long? How do you lead that long? How do you not get bored? How do you make it through tough seasons? What do you tell a baby church 6 years old? How do you, how are we here in 40 years? What do we got to do?

[B]

Well, I would say one thing. I've had 40 families that have been with me for all 42 years.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

They've heard me preach everything I know with different titles.

[A]

I'm starting to do that.

[B]

Yes, I know that. I've heard both your messages, and they were both fabulous. You just start in different places. But we've heard it. He's never been with someone who can give it, has he? How many of you are glad to see the relationship?

[A]

I'm usually the man of God. You know what I mean? I'm usually floating in here, speaking in tongues.

[B]

Yes. No, that's not true. But what I would say about lasting is everyone will do something for God. But the only way you can do something great for God is you stay put. Wow. Great trees are trees that stay planted. And when I talked to you earlier and said the average person moves every 2.8 years from a church, we're not talking about moving from LA to Las Vegas. We. We're talking about in Las Vegas or la. And. And what that means is you can never. You can never build anything great because you're not planted long enough. Decide if you're here for you or decide if you're here for others and make that decision. And so what I would say to everybody is. Is lasting's hard. Very few people. And in the Bible, we are given the names of 300 leaders in the Bible. And one of the reasons I love the Bible is because it's an honest book. What we know is only 25% of them finished in the will of God. The majority of all Bible leaders finished outside of the will of God. Now, that does two things for you. One, it should scare you. Two, if you look in this room, there's about 500 people in here. So that means 125 of the people in here will finish in the will of God. Why are you going to be one of them and not the others? It's because your commitment is renewed day by day. You don't live off yesterday's commitment. You live off today's commitment. Please understand something. You. You folks don't know me. Jabin knows me, but you folks don't know me. The reason I'm here is because there's the possibility of great. Of greatness in this church. And when I say greatness in this church, I'm not saying the church will be great. There's an opportunity to create a platform for God to do something great through. But the only way great can be done is if people are committed and they're committed to stay. And so most of you are at the young and cute stage. I mean, you're young. There's a few of you. We can sing the Song Ancient of days, too. But most of you, most of you are young. Everyone that started with me looked like the young ones, but 40 years later, they're still there. And see, you just decide if you're going to do something great. What I can tell you about this church, and in a given year, I will interact with over 10,000 churches. So I bring a perspective not of one church, not of two. Jabin can bring that perspective from his speaking schedule, but I possibly can bring it even from a larger schedule. But that being said, you. You have the qualities in front of you to do something that is profound. And what I would say to you is don't let that moment go by if it is possible for you to lock your arms together and to be a team for the future. Because one day you'll stand before Jesus and you'll get to say, hey, there were 1700 people that got saved in 2024. And you get to say that you shared in that moment. And I would just plead with you, how do you last. You just make a commitment every day. Now, marriage is hard. That's what our pastor's conference. I'm doing a message entitled Moses in Marriage because there were five encounters he had with his family, and none of them were pleasant. How do you survive that stuff? But that's too long to preach here. You'll have to steal it.

[A]

I will. I want to ask you about marriage, but before we go to marriage, I want to talk about your spiritual father. Some of you know this name, some of you don't. Kenneth E. Hagin. Dad Hagin. That's who your spiritual father was. He's in heaven. Now. Give me. Give us one or two things you learned from dad Hagin.

[B]

Well, the first thing I learned was I learned to pray from him. And so outside my wall, there's a Jesse, the lead pastor now of our church, I'm the founding pastor, has created a hall of fame of faith based on my mentors. And each one of my mentors, there's a quote. The quote from him is, if you don't know what to do, pray. If you still don't know what to do, pray longer.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so he taught me to pray. He taught me that the only way you're going to do well down here is reaching up up there. And so that would be another one of my mentors, if I could just sort of segue. He. He taught me a principle that I believe very much, that faith is not a substitute for wisdom. And most people want to use their bicep faith Muscle. I'm going to believe harder. I'm going to believe harder. I'm going to believe harder. And they never use their wisdom bicep. And, and you gotta use, you've gotta understand if you use wisdom, you won't be believing God as much.

[A]

Yeah, you won't need as many miracles. Yeah, you'll need some, but not.

[B]

Yeah, you'll just be doing something. So I would just say, but. And another thing, and some of you, you would be too, too young to know this, but you know, I can remember when Jimmy Swaggart fell and, and I can remember being in a meeting and dad was up there and Jimmy had been on the news and it's horrific. Anytime a pastor minister does something and he just, there are about 20, 000 in the audience that night. And he just said, hey, a dear friend of mine's going to come up and he's just going to greet you. He said, I want you to respond just graciously to him. And Jimmy got up and just said hi and sat down and everything. And I asked dad Hagen this question because he and I were alone in the green room. You know, you got a green room there. Looks beige, but it's green.

[A]

So about the, the bathroom in the back, that is a biohazard.

[B]

Yeah, okay, but, but, but the green room. I was in the green room and I said, dad, I said, you know, people are going to say, you're endorsing Jimmy, you're endorsing his behavior. And he said, gerald, he said, honestly, I prayed and I didn't know what to do. I knew he was coming. And he said, but I've learned this principle. If I don't know what to do, I'm always going to err on the side of love. Wow.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so if you don't know what to do, pray. If you still don't know what to do, pray more. And I've lived my life when I didn't know what to do. Always err on the side of love.

[A]

I love that. How long have you been married now to Jenny?

[B]

48 years.

[A]

48 years. Wow. Let's just make some noise for that. That's amazing. Give us a marriage tip. Give us a marriage secret. Give us a.

[B]

Well, I, I think most people get married with an idea of a fantasy. And, and the fantasy, the honeymoon period lasts two years. It's a chemical induced phase that you quickly grow out of. Who's the guy over here that you said need the top 10 where.

[A]

He's in. He's in. Yeah. We'll just keep him in prayer.

[B]

Let's.

[A]

Yeah, he's just ready to get married.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, well, good for him. It lasts, but, but it lasts two years. When they do, when they do studies on marriage and they say, what is the one characteristic of people who stay happily married? They say, if you have to reduce it to one quality, it is the frequency with which they say thank you. Wow.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So there's never a time that if Ginny does dinner that I don't say, sweetheart, thank you for making that. I make a point. And she is so good at saying thank you because in fact, my new podcast is coming out Monday. You know, I do a section on it. That attitude always begins with gratitude. And the more you say thank you, the more you create a positive environment. And so if you're, I could give you a lot of keys, but Ginny and I work at never taking each other for granted. And thank you means that you're not gonna take the other person for granted. You're thanking them for what they didn't have to do something and you say thank you. And so that would be my one. And the other thing is, you know, you've got to understand, never let a, never make a long term decision during a season of life. Seasons change. And so just that would be my simple thoughts.

[A]

I love that with parenting, you are a parent, grandparent, maybe just talk to the parents. Something parents obviously, especially Christian parents, were facing so much. There's all the, I mean all the gender stuff, all the crazy stuff. Goldie looked at us this week watching a TV show that we thought was good and she goes, look, dad, the, the girl has two dads. Did you know that could happen? And I just lit myself on fire. And then I went upstairs and got the gun and shot the TV and then I, then I went on a 40 day fast. It's just everywhere. I think there's so, there's the whole progressive side of things that's just so radical. But then there's this life just advice for Christian parents. And not just about that stuff, but just connecting with your kids, loving your kids, hearing your kids, talking to your kids.

[B]

Well, I've had the privilege of having three kids and now I have six grandkids. And they're just immense blessings to us. What I do believe about kids is your first child probably has a legal right to sue you because when you have your first kid, you're convinced you know how to do it. You know, it's the old story when it's your first kid and they swallow a quarter, you rush them to the emergency room. Your second kid, you wait till it's passed. The third kid, you deduct it from their allowance. So wrong. So that being. That being said, if I were to give one piece of advice, Fact. I have a book out there. It was entitled, you know, five prayers for your kids. No one would buy that, so we had to retitle it, and I rewrote a couple of chapters on prayer principles, but it has five prayers that I've prayed for. My kids and friends have all the.

[A]

Books in the back when you buy your City Light merch today, all those books, so make sure to check those out.

[B]

But there's. There's five prayers I prayed for my kids every day of their life, and it's in there.

[A]

Yeah. And if you want them.

[B]

No.

[A]

Buy the book.

[B]

Yeah. No, no. I'm just telling you because it is. But. But here's the principle. Pray more, talk less. If. If talking to kids would change them, our kids would be perfect. Pray more, talk less. But if you're going to pray more, know what you're praying, then go buy the book.

[A]

I love that wisdom. Thank you. That's amazing. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for pouring into us. Guess what, y'? All. Tomorrow, all three services, we're gonna hear from Pastor Gerald Brooks. Can you give us 30 seconds on what you're going to talk about tomorrow?

[B]

Well, we live in a society that's living on emotional edge, and I'm going to talk to you about four emotions. Every person has to learn how to manage.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Or this world will get you.

[A]

I just love how you think. I just love seven. This six. This four. It's like, oh, it's so smart. I get to do his pastor's conference in October.

[B]

He does. Thank you for doing that.

[A]

I'm so excited about getting to speak to all those pastors and get to be in your world. And it's a huge honor. Huge honor you're here today. Huge honor tomorrow. We cannot wait to receive from you. And so thank you. Thank you, Pastor Tasha.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Love you so much. Love you so much.