The Shepherd’s Heart of Every Great Christian Leader Feat. Jacob Aranza | #063

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Jabin Chavez Leadership Podcast
Episode: The Shepherd’s Heart of Every Great Christian Leader Feat. Jacob Aranza | #063
Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Jabin Chavez
Guest: Pastor Jacob Aranza

---

Overview:

This episode zeroes in on the essential call for Christian leaders, especially pastors, to possess the heart of a shepherd. Host Jabin Chavez and guest Pastor Jacob Aranza engage in an enriching dialogue about authentic pastoral ministry, spiritual discipline, the legacy of mentorship, the balance between public and private leadership, and the practical and spiritual dimensions of caring for both individual congregants and affluent “kings.” With anecdotes, wisdom, and practical tools, the discussion is a masterclass in redefining what greatness in Christian leadership truly means.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights:

1. The Power of Mentorship and Spiritual Legacy

• Jacob Aranza’s Early Years with Leonard Ravenhill (00:04):
  • Jacob lived and was personally discipled by revivalist and prayer leader Leonard Ravenhill for four years starting in 1984.
  • Prayer and passion were central: “We prayed eight to ten hours a day. ... The passion he had for God never waned and only grew up until the end.” (Jacob Aranza, 06:48)
  • Ravenhill’s memorable aphorisms:
    • “The man who’s not praying is playing. The pastor’s not praying is straying.” (Jacob Aranza quoting Ravenhill, 05:25)
    • “We have many singers, few clingers, many pastors, few wrestlers, failing here we fail everywhere.”
    • “Revival is when God gets so sick and tired of being misrepresented that He shows up Himself.” (Jacob Aranza, 11:53)
• A Revivalist’s Honest Appraisal:
  • Ravenhill saw himself as “the revivalist or the prophet that failed because he never saw the revival he believed would happen. But the truth is he has seen it ... through me and many others.” (Jacob Aranza, 10:40)

2. Shepherding vs. Evangelistic Ministry (12:32)

• The contrast between being an evangelist and a pastor is stark:
  • “Being an evangelist is nothing like being a pastor. The only thing in common are a microphone and a platform ... As a pastor, I’m thinking about, how are the people?” (Jacob Aranza, 13:19)
  • True pastoral ministry involves involvement in life’s most sacred moments—funerals, weddings, hospital visits—regardless of church size.

Importance of Presence and Accessibility

• Both Jabin and Jacob stress being physically present in the lobby, praying, hugging, noticing needs, and building human connection, regardless of how big the church gets.

  • “I still do weddings and funerals. I still do hospital visits. I don’t live in the green room.” (Jacob Aranza, 13:19)
  • “Pastoring is shepherding. It’s Father. You don’t graduate from that because your church gets bigger.” (Jacob Aranza, 21:54)

• Memorable Moment (09:55):

  • Ravenhill’s loving rebuke: "Obviously you didn’t pray all afternoon. ... You try to be too funny. You want people to like you too much. And you didn’t have any anointing."

3. The Role of Compassion and Suffering with Others

• “What the word compassion means: to suffer with. What we love about Jesus is he suffered for us and he suffers with us.” (Jacob Aranza, 22:18)
• Practical wisdom: “Do for one what you wish you could do for all. Don’t get overwhelmed by the all.” (Jabin Chavez, 22:59)

4. Primary Counsel to Pastors (24:09)

• Love Your Wife:
  • “The greatest gift you’ll ever give to your church is loving your wife... Jesus died for the church already. He wants you to die for your bride. Wow. He died for His, now you need to die for yours.” (Jacob Aranza, 24:10-24:59)
  • Healthy marriages are foundational to healthy churches and teams.
• Be What You Want to Reproduce:
  • “Everything reproduces after its own kind. ... Your staff will never be doing any better than a marriage is doing. Never, never, never.” (Jacob Aranza, 25:29)

5. The Priority of Anointing, Prayer, and Living in the Spirit

• Moving beyond mere ministry skill to supernatural anointing:

  • Jabin: “Getting up on stage with an anointing...is the game changer to your ministry where you leave being a TED Talk.”

• Developing a Life of Prayer (28:41-32:15):

  • “When you see God before you see anybody else, when you hear from him before you hear from anybody else, ... you go from a prayer time to a prayer life to a life of prayer.” (Jacob Aranza, 29:08-29:27)
  • Leading by example: Jacob’s children grew up seeing him pray daily—now they do the same with their families.

• Small, Practical Steps:

  • “See God before you see anybody else. ... Speak to Him before you speak to anybody else.” (Jacob Aranza, 31:14)

6. Cultivating a Prayer Culture in Family and Church (34:46)

• Praying with one’s spouse is essential security for wives and a vital part of a pastor’s ministry.
  • “I am astounded by the Christian men that don’t pray with their wife. ... Your wife gets no more security ever. Any greater security than when she hears you hugging her, holding her hand, saying, God, I pray for our children.” (Jacob Aranza, 35:03-35:14)
• Jabin notes the transformative power of ending every phone call or conversation with a prayer.

7. Shepherding Affluent People: Making Kings Rich Where They’re Poor (37:28)

• Jacob defines “kings” as those with both influence and affluence.

  • “When you work with affluent people, most of them have exchanged their faith and their family to get their finances. ... You will often find people that are very financially rich, but very relationally poor.” (Jacob Aranza, 38:10-38:22)
  • Ministry priority: “My job as a pastor is to see the areas where you lack and to try to make you rich. ... I’ve rarely ever asked anyone for anything that I had not first gone in and made serious deposits into the areas of their greatest lack.” (Jacob Aranza, 39:14-39:58)
  • Relationships are like bank accounts—serve first, then receive.

• Tithing and Giving (41:54-46:05):

  • Jabin and Jacob discuss both sides: those who feel their small gift is insignificant and the wealthy who question effectiveness.
  • “You have to empower that group: no, you are a part of this. It matters. ... On the flip side, to the wealthy... you also have to let them know: we can steward and be responsible.” (Jabin Chavez, 46:05)
  • Stewardship and trust are key to unlocking generosity.

• Leadership Principle:

  • “We all follow people for two reasons: Because, number one, we believe they love us, and number two, we trust. ... If they love you and they trust you and they believe in the mission, then ... what can I afford to do? Or what does God want me to do by faith, even if I can’t afford it?” (Jacob Aranza, 48:14-48:37)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments:

• “Nobody can have more of God than me. I get to decide how much of God I get, not them.”
  — Leonard Ravenhill to Jacob Aranza, relating a core spiritual lesson (07:38)

• “Pastoring is shepherding. ... You don’t graduate from that because your church gets bigger.”
  — Jacob Aranza (21:54)

• “You backslide in the green room.”
  — Jacob Aranza on the dangers of pastoral isolation (22:18)

• “Do for one what you wish you could do for all. Don’t get overwhelmed by the all.”
  — Jabin Chavez (22:59)

• “The greatest gift you’ll ever give to your church is loving your wife.”
  — Jacob Aranza (24:10)

• “When you see God before you see anybody else ... you go from a prayer time, to a prayer life, to a life of prayer.”
  — Jacob Aranza (29:08-29:27)

• “You want to make them rich where they’re poor.”
  — Jacob Aranza, principle for pastoring influential and affluent people (39:58)

• “All relationships operate on a bank account. ... Everything costs something, just not always money.”
  — Jacob Aranza (40:12-40:22)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:04 – Leonard Ravenhill mentorship stories
• 07:38 – The lesson of spiritual hunger and personal responsibility
• 09:55 – Ravenhill’s feedback after a sermon
• 13:19 – The difference between evangelist and pastor
• 14:31 – The role of a pastor in life’s pivotal moments
• 17:19 – The importance of being present with congregation
• 21:54 – Pastoring is shepherding: never outgrow it
• 24:10 – Wedding and marriage: The greatest gift to the church
• 29:08 – Life of prayer vs. mere prayer time
• 34:46 – Praying in family and church culture
• 35:03 – Praying with your spouse
• 38:10 – Helping affluent leaders become rich where they’re poor
• 46:05 – Stewarding money and empowering every giver
• 48:14 – Leadership built on love and trust

---

Conclusion

Jabin Chavez and Jacob Aranza deliver a heartfelt, practical, and spiritually potent call for leaders to never lose the heart of a shepherd. Whether mentoring future revivalists, stewarding a large church, or investing in wealthy marketplace leaders, foundational themes of love, presence, prayer, and practical care echo through every story and principle. The episode is a timely reminder that, for Christian leaders, greatness is measured by their capacity to care intimately and to lead authentically—never losing sight of the why behind the what.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, what's up, friend? And welcome to the Ja Ben Chavis Leadership Podcast, where we're helping you grow, helping you with your systems, with your culture, and ultimately, hopefully helping you as a leader. Because wherever you go, and that's where the organization is ultimately going to go, make sure that you are liking subscribing, doing all the things that you got to do to help us with the YouTube algorithm. I don't even know what that means, but help us with all of that. If this episode is a blessing, maybe put it in your Instagram story, share it on your X account, your Threads account, Facebook, whatever, and help us spread the word as we are trying to help leaders lead better. And I'm actually coming to you from our auditorium. I don't know if you've ever seen our auditorium, but here we are, 1,007 seats right here in the heart of Las Vegas as we're filming this. This is the end of August, and we moved into this building at the beginning of May. It's been a miracle story. Our church is seven years old, and it's been awesome. So I usually go film back in my office, but we're out here today because we were filming some other content and because I have a very special guest with me today. Relationships are everything. They're a gift. They're a godsend, if you follow me. You know, I'm always talking about people and places. God's a God of people and places. Go to Zarephath. I have a woman for you there. I have a person for you there in that place. The late, great John Osteen, Pastor Joel's dad, would preach an old message, a place called There. He said, there's a place for your provision. There's a person for your provision. That's been a huge part of our story. And not only is he a God of places, and that's why we're here in Vegas, but he's a God of people. And God has brought really great men into my life over the years, and one of them is with me today. Many of you know him, and if you know him, you love him. And if you don't know him, you're about to fall in love with him. His name is Pastor Jacob Aranza. He pastors Our Savior's Church in Lafayette, Louisiana, the home of Tabasco. And just one of the great churches, not only of Louisiana, one of the great churches of our nation, decades now of building campuses. It is truly a move of God and just I've been so blessed to go and speak there and so grateful that he is on the pod today. So grateful that you're here. Welcome. I love you. I appreciate you. You're a gift to me. And you're. To everybody who's watching, they would say, he's a gift to me, too. And to those who maybe don't know you and are about to meet you, they're about to say, he's a gift to me, too. You're the Mexican uncle we didn't know we needed. You traveled the world as an evangelist. You preached to millions and millions of people. Preached literally at high schools around the world. Preached for Billy Graham, Josh McDowell, like you have so many great stories. I want to start with this, though. Kind of a unique thing. So many of us young Pentecostal kids and Pentecostal. I was not just young because I got in, you know, I was kind of at the tail end of it. So many of us were impacted by why. Revival Terries by Leonard Ravenhill. Leonard mentored you?

[B]

I lived with him for four years.

[A]

For four. Tell. Just give me a Leonard Ravenhill story. Give me something about Leonard Ravenhill. Well, good, bad, whatever.

[B]

I just, you know, first of all, we prayed eight to ten hours a day. He discipled David Wilkerson and Keith Green. Wow. So when the Lord opened up the opportunity first for me to meet him and then to ask him if I could move in the middle of the country in a house he had built for his son right next to him.

[A]

What years is this?

[B]

This was in 1984. 5. And if he would disciple me. And so, you know, I didn't go to Bible college. I got saved in. In junior high school in a revival where a thousand kids got saved at the end of Jesus movement. And then I started preaching when I was 15. And so by the time I was 19, I was traveling all over Europe and Asia sharing my story in. In public schools and then in conferences. So after I got married and settled down a bit, I asked him when I met him if he would mentor me. And so he said yes. I'm not sure that I knew what I was asking for, right?

[A]

Oh, I can't imagine.

[B]

But I just knew that what the impact that he had across the world. I mean, there are people that read Leonard Ravenhill books 50 years ago that can quote them. The man who's not praying is playing. The pastor's not praying is straying. Poverty stricken, as the church is in most areas, it's more in the place of prayer. We have many singers, few clingers, many pastors, few wrestlers, failing Here we fail everywhere. I mean, just the.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

He would drop a one line bomb that people remember 50 years later.

[A]

We're praying to the God of Elijah, but he's looking for the Elijah's of God. You're feasting, he's calling you to fast.

[B]

When, you know, being with him was certainly an honor and a privilege and probably the exposure of what he exposed, he wouldn't, he wouldn't read an author that wasn't at least 100 years old. Wow. So the exposure to information was, was amazing. But every week someone would be coming over, you know, J. Edwin Orr, who wrote on revivals, Charles Stanley would come, David Wilkerson to be there the next day. Many people knew about the Brownsville revival. Okay. The guys began that it was there. I mean, just there was, it was like a plethora of amazing people.

[A]

Do you think prayer was the thing he taught you? Like, was that the thing you got? What would, what would be maybe the thing that.

[B]

I think the number. He was a man of prayer, prayed eight to ten hours a day. But I think passion. Wow. I think passion. I would be driving in from Dallas into Lindell, preaching some meeting, and I'd come in at one or two in the morning and drive up our driveway and he's got his light on and he's there reading or writing. I mean, the passion he had for God never waned and only grew up until up until the end. And you know, when you pray over a statement for about 80 to 100 hours, when you speak it, there's power and there's anointing. But I would say the consummate hunger for God. One of the things he would say to me is, you know, Jacob, there are people that are smarter than me, there are people that are better looking than me. There are people better preachers and writers than me, but nobody can have more of God than me. I get to decide how much of God I get, not them.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that passion for God, that was manifested in prayer. And you said, tell you a story. I was preaching in Tyler, Texas, which is 20 minutes away from where we lived in Lindell in the country. And we had a revival and it went on for weeks. And God moved and hundreds of people were at prayer every morning. And so they began bringing me back once a month after this three or four week revival happened. And so one, one day I preached there on a Sunday, Rose Heights Church of God. And then I was coming back on Sunday night. Well, because there was such a revival, some of the affluent people in the Church one was a bank president, invited me to come after church and to eat with them and to fellowship with them and just spend time with them. And then, of course, I got back to my house, changed, brushed my teeth, got ready and went back. So I didn't know that night that Leonard Ravenhill was going to sneak in the room right after worship, right before I started preaching. So I, you know, front of the service goes on everything. I stand up and I look and I see him there in the back. And I preached. I thought, you know, I went to grand slam. But it was, you know, double, triple.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got on base.

[B]

Yeah. You know what I mean? So the next morning, I went over to his office to see how he thought I did. It was in his house. So I said, hey, Brother Lynn, I saw that you went over yesterday. Said, I did. I said, well, what'd you think? He said, obviously you didn't pray all afternoon. You must have been fellowshipping with somebody.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Wow. And then he goes, you try to be too funny. You want people to like you too much.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And you didn't have any anointing. And I could fault you in some other areas, but I won't.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

The only thing you didn't say was, my wife was ugly.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And another thing.

[B]

And I. I can remember just those moments where he saw so much more in me than I saw in myself.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And his. His wife was Irish. Martha. He would start going in on me and she would go, len, Lynn, stop. Len, stop. There's no gall in Jacob, you know, there's no gall in him. Stop.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I just look back at those times, and he saw me as a young, you know, 26, 78-year-old evangelist, but he had so much that he desired for me to be a true revivalist. And what's interesting is he called himself near the end of his life the revivalist or the prophet that failed because he never saw the revival that he believed would happen. Wow. But the truth is he has seen it. He's just seen it through me and many others that he's invested in God, showed him what was to come, that he would give birth to in the hearts of other men who would then be able to see.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like Moses, we would have never seen the promised land had that been. Not been deposited into our lives.

[A]

Wow. And you think about even just all the guys from. From your age to my age who have been who that book. And I mean, look at this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is all. This is all A part of his story. And I know, you know, I hope he's. No, I hope God's letting me now.

[B]

He would often say, you know, revival is when God gets so sick and tired of being misrepresented that he shows up himself.

[A]

Wow. Okay. You were an evangelist for years, Traveled the world, impacted millions, Millions of airline miles, and every. All over the world. I was an evangelist. And then you started a church. I started church. You became a pastor. Pastor. Pastor Shepherd. Pastor. Can you just talk when I say pastor, what does that mean to you? What should that mean to these men and women watching? What should it mean to me, Pastor?

[B]

Yeah. Well, first of all, being an evangelist is nothing like being a pastor. Absolutely. The only thing in common are a microphone and a platform.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And church people.

[A]

Yeah. Jesus.

[B]

But, yeah, I never worried about, you know, Ms. Jones brother has cancer. And. And why are they. Why aren't they both sitting together? I heard they were having marriage struggles, but they were getting back together and. Hold it. Our. Our biggest givers haven't been here two weeks in a row, and. Man, I'm so sorry. I just found out your mother passed away last week. I would have called you if I would have known that, you know? So I think when I was an evangelist, I thought about what I wanted to say to the people. As a pastor, I'm thinking about, how are the people?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

How are the people? I still do weddings and funerals. I still do hospital visits. I don't live in the green room. I live. Our sheep gather together once a week, and I'm the shepherd. I feel like it's my responsibility to be out there with them. Our church, last couple of weekends, 13,000 people. But I've not grown out of being a pastor. It is my privilege, it is my honor, it is my joy. So I think as pastors, our first responsibility after caring for our soul, our wives, our children. You know, back when I began in ministry, there were no mega church pastors yet. Tommy Barnett and you had a guy in Hammond, Indiana, and both of them ran bus ministries that ran hundreds of miles each week. But I. My concern is, oftentimes I see people who think because you have a large crowd, that you graduate from that.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

Many years ago, I was at a. I was at a large pastor's conference, and there was probably, I don't know, maybe 150 people there. Most of the largest churches in the country. I wasn't one of them. I just paid the money to go to the meeting, and they were asking one of the people there who was one of the leaders, what do you do is weddings, funerals, you know, people in crisis. And the person said, well, you know, I don't do that. Wow. I don't. He said, you know, I study, prepare to preach, all of that. Like, I understand that. Like, I. I got it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he said, I can't do that because of my time. During a breakout, we had lunch, and there was an African American pastor. I didn't know who he was, but all the people that I did know who they were were sitting at his table for lunch. So I'm like, I don't know who he is, but if they all know who he is, I know who they are. I'm gonna sit by him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they asked him. They said, what do you. What do you think about what he said about he doesn't do weddings or funerals or. And I don't mean you can't do every one.

[A]

Yeah. All right.

[B]

You understand what I'm saying? And he looked at us, and his name was Bishop Patterson. Wow. I found out later, and he said, there are two or three things that bind a family to their pastor for the rest of their lives. Whoa.

[A]

Listen, listen.

[B]

One of them is funerals. He buried Mama.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He buried Daddy. He buried my grandmother. And the other one is weddings. So, my God, I. I see more people saved at funerals than most pastors see on a weekend. And we average about 500 salvations a weekend across our campuses. So at a funeral, man, you know, Solomon said, it's better to go to a funeral than a party. So people get the perspective of eternity, the brevity of life. And then I get a chance to stand up and tell them what that really means. So I don't ever want to graduate from that. I can't do them all.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But I can do them. Totally. I can't marry them all, but I can do them in. In the lobby. I do more pastoring. Pastor, let me pray for you. Come on. Hey, how's your mom?

[A]

Totally. I think. I think guys have gotten away from that. I think. And it actually. It's so. For pastors watching, it's so good for you. And Jensen taught me that. He goes, you gotta be in that lobby. You gotta shake hands. You gotta shake hands. You gotta shake hands. So I still. I'm out every service shaking hands. 1. People are blown away. Cause they. You're larger. Especially in large churches, you're larger than life. They. And then you walk out their home. Oh, you know, they. Oh, you know. Oh, my God. You know, and you pray and you hug and you take pictures and you. And you check in and you. I found out a guy, a great guy in our church, great guy in our church, had hip surgery. I never knew. Now, it was a failure of systems, but I found out because I was in the lobby and I just looked at him and go, I feel like I haven't seen you in a couple weeks. Is that me? Was I on vacation? Because I was on vacation. And he goes, oh, I had hip surgery. I just didn't know. So he goes, oh, but the team was so great. They sent food, they sent flowers. They sent. I said, oh, that's amazing. I said, I'm just. I'm so sorry. I didn't know. Forgive me. I'm not blaming any. I'm not blaming the team. I'm blaming. For whatever reason, I didn't know you had hip surgery. Please forgive me. Gave him a big hug. What happens in the lobby? I met this guy right here off camera. I'm marrying him and his fiance in a couple of weeks. A month ago. I'm doing a funeral in this room. Giving a salvation altar call at the funeral. Like, yeah, it gives guts to your sermons. It gives you that agonizing, you know, what's going on. I mean, honestly, a guy left our church. He was offended with me.

[B]

That's never happened.

[A]

Never happened.

[B]

And.

[A]

Jay, one of our pastors, said, would you reach out to him? Would you think about that? Because I don't really know him, but I know who he is, but I don't know him. And my first thought was. And it came out of my mouth, and I'm not. This isn't a bad thing. I just thought, well, I don't really know him. I don't. And he goes, think about it. Pray about it. And I said, okay. So I did. And last night, I text Jay and I said, send me his number. And so he sends me a smiley face back, right? He's so happy. And then he sent me the number. This morning, I got up early. I was in prayer. I just gave him a voice memo. It was like four minutes. Just let him know I love him. I don't want him to leave the church. If there's anything I can do, please forgive me. I take responsibility for anything that I did to offend you. It's my fault. It's not your fault. It's my fault. It's nobody else's fault. He sent me a beautiful text back. Now I could easily go, we're a church of 5,000 people, I ain't got time to text. Whatever. No, pastoring is pastoring. And again, yeah. You can't take every meeting. You can't take every call. I can't. You for sure can't. But yesterday morning, I had coffee with a guy for two hours. Been in our church for six years, and he asked for a coffee, and we sat down for a coffee. I said, what's up? He goes, I've been attending for six years. I've just never had any time with you. I just want to have coffee with you. I said, oh, my God, Amazing. Had just a great conversation. Talked about all kinds of things. So, yeah, I don't. And maybe this would help a person, because I'm always trying to get practical tools. The person. It's their first weekend in church, and they come up to you and go, can I meet with you? No. Almost. Unless the Lord is leading me, it's probably a no. I'm gonna move them to a staff member. But to the people who have been in your church now for months or years, and they're serving and they're involved and they're giving and they're. And they request a meeting if you can. Again, depending upon your level, it's different at 13,000, at 5,000, at 500, all those different levels. But, yeah, you gotta get around the people, because that's pastoring. Pastoring is shepherding. It's Father.

[B]

You don't graduate from that because your church gets bigger.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That is. That is the mantra. The mantra is, and I'll tell you this, I've been doing this for 54 years. You don't backslide crying with people because their cousin has cancer or their mother or their father is in a crisis. You backslide in the green room.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

When you forget the why behind the. What the word compassion means to suffer with. And what we love about Jesus is he suffered for us and he suffers with us. He suffers with us. And again, we're speaking in generalities because obviously in neither one of our situations could we do that for everybody. But we can do it for somebody. We can do it for the people that we know. The people that count are the people you can count on, the people that have helped build the house, the people that literally, truly, the church wouldn't be the church without them.

[A]

Yep. One person said, do for one what you wish you could do for all. So in the. Don't get overwhelmed by the all. Yeah, I can't take 20 meetings a week, but I could take that coffee date that Coffee meeting, and then I was with you all afternoon. I'm with you this morning. Today I'm going to have another coffee with a guy in our church. Tomorrow I'm going to play golf with some men in our church. It's a part of how this works. And one of the men that I'm going to play golf with tomorrow attends our church, has not yet made a profession of faith. He's going to come to golf with three believers I'm excited about the seeds that I believe are going to be sown. He's attending. So it's. Pastor's such a big word. One more thing on that. Could you just talk to pastors for a moment? If you were meeting with a senior pastor and it's like, I got two minutes to tell them one thing. What's that? One thing you'd tell a senior pastor?

[B]

Love your wife.

[A]

Love your wife.

[B]

Greatest gift you'll ever give to your church is loving your wife.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

More people outside of the preaching of the gospel that come to our church come because of the way I speak of my wife. More women say, my greatest goal, Pastor, is that my wife is it as a wife I'm treated. The way you speak about your wife, the way you present your wife, the way you honor your wife. And so that is the greatest gift. It's the greatest gift I give to my children, and it's the greatest gift I give to my church. Many pastors are having an affair with the wrong bride. Listen carefully. Jesus died for the church already. He wants you to die for your bride. Wow. He died for his. Now you need to die for yours.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so that is the single greatest gift. The second thing is be exactly what you expect to reproduce. Everything reproduces after some kind. When God blessed man, the blessing he gave man is, you're going to reproduce after your own kind. Often I say to people who are struggling in an area of their life that have children, I go, don't you hate it when you're dealing with this? And he goes, yeah. I go, well, then you better stop it right now, because the only thing will make you hate it more is when you see the same thing in your children.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Everything reproduces after its own kind, Jesus. So love your wife. Make that a priority for your staff. Make that a priority for your staff. Your staff will never be doing any better than a marriage is doing. Never, never, never, never. And so if it's a priority for you, then it becomes a priority for your team. Healthy marriages build healthy churches, and man.

[A]

Isn'T that so true. Like, if Shannon and I are ever struggling, it is so hard to lead church. Like, it is. Like, it's so hard to be struggling at home and then have to manufacture the energy for this. Where when we're strong at home, and thankfully we are, but when we're strong at home, this church becomes like an overflow.

[B]

Early on in our ministry, when I was an evangelist again, preaching anywhere they'd have me, we were probably staying at a Best Western in Huntsville, Texas. Michelle and I had gotten an argument. We had no children and that we had an agreement. The agreement was if we were not in agreement, I wasn't preaching.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So we got in this argument. Pastor comes to pick me up, and I told her, I said, I just want you to know I'm going to stand up in front of the church today and I'm going to tell them I'm sorry, I can't preach. My wife and I are not in agreement. Okay. We go. Pastor announces me, I go to stand up. She's sitting on the back row going, I love you, Melvin. I love you. Please forgive me. Can I tell you this? You can only with authority and anointing, preach what you're actually practicing.

[A]

Yeah. Let's go down the anointing. So I'm a Holy Ghost Pentecostal Charismatic. I grew up in the renewal blessing, 1990s, Toronto, Brownsville. Rolling around on the floor, gold dust, laughing, flag waving. And I experienced probably some trauma from that, some wackiness from that, but also, like, truly touched by the Holy Spirit. Baptized in the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues, believe in the gifts, Practice them, Practice them. In our church, I think pastors can get away from the supernatural, maybe because they did see the extremes of it or whatever. But getting up on stage with an anointing, from prayer to the word to lifestyle, it's. So is it. Is the game changer to your ministry where you leave being a TED Talk? Can you just maybe talk about that a little bit.

[B]

Again? Going back to Brother Ravenhill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Man, he prayed 10 hours a day. Okay. When. When you're. First of all, I don't know anybody, but. But my son hadn't that praise 10 hours a day.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

Who you have? Okay. I don't know anybody else that does that. So you look at that and you go like, I'm out.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But I heard someone say it like this. When you see God before you see anybody else, when you hear from him before you hear from anybody else, okay. You go from a prayer time to a prayer life To a life of prayer.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

A prayer time. I began getting up at 5 o' clock in the morning when I was a teenager, meeting God before I met anybody else. When I had to put my alarm on the other side of the room because I knew the only way that I would stay awake is if I put it on the other side of the room and had to go walk over there and turn it off. That was 50 years ago. That was a prayer time. And what has become a prayer time, My spiritual father, the man that led me to the Lord when I was 14, Pastor Clay to Keith and still is like my daddy at 84. I've only been with him in about three prayer meetings, but I've never been with him when he wasn't praying.

[A]

Wow. Yep.

[B]

He was just driving down the street. Just, just, just walking in the spirit. Just walking in the spirit. And I think the ultimate goal of a prayer time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is a life of prayer life. It's walking and walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Walk in. And I think in the evangelical world, there's a quiet time. You know, everybody needs their quiet time. And you know, in, in the spirit filled world that you and I came from, it's you wake up in the morning, Devil's northeast.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ye, yeah.

[B]

You.

[A]

Powered spirit curse.

[B]

And, and the reality is to, to walk in the spirit, you got to begin in the spirit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's very simple. See God before you see anybody else. Wow. Speak to him before you speak to anybody else. Wow. And can I tell you what the treasure is with all of my children, Little children, get up early. Some of you don't need an alarm. You have a living alarm. And so I walk and pray in my living room in the morning. So all my children, when they would wake up, they were all raised with me walking and praying with them. If you call my two boys that are in ministry that have children, the other ones don't, you know what they're doing every morning?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

They're up walking with their children. Praying in the spirit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Praying in the spirit. Doing exactly what they witnessed from the time that they were carried themselves. And they're now replicating the very thing that they saw. That is my reward.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's my Jesus in that is my reward.

[A]

One thing I've noticed about you that I've never said to you, but I don't think we've ever gotten off the call, ever gotten off a phone call without you praying. And I actually know when the phone Call's ending. Because we'll be talking, we'll be talking. Pastor Jake would go, well, Father, in the name of Jesus. And he'll start praying for me. And I know he's wrapping it up. But you, you end every prayer, every phone call with prayer. And sometimes it literally could be five seconds. Sometimes the anointing gets on. You start praying in tongues. You start praying it and that, that starts to float, that starts building. Not only you, it starts shifting the culture of your church, the culture of the house. I do it out in the lobby, I'm talking to people. If anything comes up, let's just pray right now in the name of Jesus. Just. Man, that starts getting. It starts getting on the house, it starts making an anointed house. You start going more spiritual, not just natural and carnal. You know, Paul says, no K, N o W know no man after the flesh. Like don't go flesh go spirit lead, spirit go that way. Just so important. Something that I've just seen from you. And I think for us pastors, because we're on the giving end, we forget the receiving end, how powerful it is. So one, you've got to find someone you're receiving from. I mean, I have a voicemail that literally, if I need to. The day we opened this building, I want to say it was Saturday, May 4th. May 3rd. Saturday, May 3rd, Jensen called me and I missed his call. I was in the shower. I get out and I have a two minute prayer that he left on voicemail. And I called him back and we talked and he prayed again. But I have that voicemail.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like you just forget. Like a guy lays hands on you go, oh, wow, that's really powerful. Pastors forget that. And you've got to cultivate that while.

[B]

You know, before we close this up, I want to address what I think is the most powerful part of prayer and that's praying with your wife. I am astounded by the Christian men that don't pray with their wife. And I'm even more astounded.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

By the pastors that don't with their wives. You remember, a wife's greatest need after Jesus is security.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Your wife gets no more security ever. Any greater security than when she hears you hugging her, holding her hand, saying, God, I pray for all of our children. And I mean, it's not, it's not a deep Holy Ghost, Joyce Meyer, my God. God, I mean, it's. I pray for, you know, Jacob Aunelina, Christian Alex Eli Finley, K baby Shiloh, and St. Joseph Rochelle, John Wesley. El Wesley's in your arms. Haddon and Amberly Grace, I plead the blood of Jesus over them. The angels of the Lord, surround and keep them. And Lord, thank you for the precious wife you've given me, the gift you've given me. You want to give security? You want to build up your wife? Let her hear you. Thank God for there is your wife. Seen you naked.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Preacher, she's heard you curse. Don't lie.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

She's seen the best and the worst of you, but she gains no greater security than when you embrace her or hold her hand. Pray.

[A]

And I think even if you're wondering what to pray or how to pray, this is a key for somebody. Look at your wife and go, is there something you'd like me to pray about? Pray for you about. Pray about and pray about that. Well, you know, school starting and I got a lot. Let's pray. You know, this is. You know, it is amazing those. Those things. One more thing, because this podcast is short. Talking about helping men be rich where they're poor. This has been a huge part of your ministry, helping businessmen who to be rich where they're poor. They have money, but they're poor in an area of their life. Can you talk about how you've pastored, Specifically businessmen and help pastors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Lead businessmen, kingdom builders, legacy guys, Kings. You call them kings. Men who are. Who are bringing financial provision to the vision.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Maybe just a few minutes to help pastors. Anything that comes to your heart there.

[B]

Well, I call people kings who have influence and affluence. We all know people that have influence, but they don't have affluence. We know people that have affluence that don't have influence. There are a few areas of every person's life that are not unique. Every one of us have the same. Okay. It is your faith, your family, your finances, your physical health. Okay. And then planning for your future. Everybody has those things, every single person. And you were only as rich as those areas.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

When you work with affluent people, most of them have exchanged their faith and their family to get their finances. Wow. Okay.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And you will often find people that are very financially rich but very relationally poor. Very relationally poor. And in those moments, my job as a pastor is. Is to see the areas where you lack and to try to make you rich. So when you work with affluent people, everybody wants their money. In other words, they want more from them than they want for them. I've rarely ever in all the history of my ministry, especially as a pastor, asked anyone for anything that I had not first gone in and made serious deposits into the areas of their greatest lack. So for most affluent people, their greatest need is their family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The children, their marriage. We actually know most affluent people have spent all of their health to gain their wealth. And now in the last part of their life, they're trying to spend all of their wealth to regain their health. Also true in their relationships. So when I see someone who is affluent, my first question is God, what area of their life are they poor in? That's where I want to make them rich. That's where I want to make them rich. And I've spent my life ministering to those areas of their life. And do you know what consequently happens? They look at the areas where we have need as a church.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Your well being is attached to my well being, Pastor. Hold it. If you're not doing good, I'm not doing good because you're making me rich where I've been poor. So, Pastor, where do you have a need?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

All relationships operate on a bank account. I tell my children all the time, everything costs something, just not always money.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

When people bless me, it costs gratitude.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay. When, when, when people are walking through things, it costs a time investment, but everything costs something. It's just not always money. And so when you work with affluent people, it's your job to find out their greatest areas of need.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And to spend your ministry time investing in them to make them rich where they're poor. And trust me, once their wellbeing is attached to you and the church, they're gonna do everything they can to make sure the church does well. Because when they do well, when the church does well, they'll do well.

[A]

And then I think that a big part of it too, is that you get to help, especially these men who are busy. They might not have time to serve in the parking lot or in the kids ministry or the youth ministry or the. They don't have the time to be an usher or whatever. But you give them now a ministry within the church, which is Romans 12, the gift of giving.

[B]

Yep, absolutely.

[A]

So now they get to use their gift to attach to the body of Christ. I was texting a guy this morning in our church, very busy, so much demand on his life. You know, the thought of getting to church early and helping in whatever ministry he can't it so. But he gave, he said, hey, just gave 11,000 towards the parking lot.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Just wanted it, you know, because he now he's kind of attached his faith and his finances to our parking lot that we're building. So it's 3,000 bucks a spot, basically. You know, so he's. Hey, just bought four more spots, whatever, right? Well, now he has a spiritual and kingdom and eternal connection to the house of God and to his money. So now the money has a purpose that's not just another car, another house, or another bling or another whatever. And so you will miss out. You will rob them of using their gifts in the house because they think their only option is to be an usher. So it is important to also empower this group of men and women to have a way of connecting to the house. And I would just say I've seen this in my own life in this church. What the tithe does is the tithe keeps the house moving, keeps it grooving. It keeps it. You know, that beautiful family makes 75,000 a year combined. And they give their. After taxes, maybe, you know, they give their 5,6000 a year. And, man, it's a stretch. And it's awesome. And it's like, you know, and some give before the tax. They give 75, you know, and it's beautiful and it's awesome. And the house runs. There's food in the house because of that. But when Moses built the tabernacle and when David built the temple, it was special offerings. It was over and above offerings from their personal treasury. And it's activating a group of people to go, okay, I'm going to get behind this.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And I think it. It's. It's not building your church around the rich, because we don't. It's. But it is making sure that everybody gets to use their gifts, including the wealthy. The wealthy.

[B]

Many years ago, when we did our first campaign with John Maxwell, the consultant came in and said, do you have a list of the wealthiest people in your church? I said, no, I don't want to know that. I just love everybody the same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he looked at me, goes, well, if someone was a worship leader and could really sing, would you want to know that? I said, yes. He said, if someone really had a heart to. To buy cars for poor widow women, would you want to know? I said, yeah. And he said, well, someone was really good with their hands and could go and fix up homes when someone's in crisis, would you want to know? Yes. Because in. Then why wouldn't you want to know if somebody had the gift of giving? Wow. And I went, because I'm stupid, you know, One of the things that has been very successful, I've seen that God's blessed and been fruitful. It's a better word, is that I disciple those men.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I have one man that gives a million dollars a year. I knew him. I witnessed him on a plane 35 years ago. He didn't give one dime to us until 2015.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I meet with him each week. I open up the Word as a man who sold 75% of his country for $600 million and still owns a large portion of it. And every time, I got him a Bible just like mine, got his name printed, and I. I teach him. Literally. He comes to church on Sunday, but I will teach. And every time I leave, almost without fail, he'll look at me and go, pastor, thank you for not giving up on me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Thank you for coming in. You're giving me what you give thousands of people that you give that to me. I get to ask questions, think, what am I doing? I'm making him rich where he's poor.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What's he doing for the kingdom? He's making us rich where we're poor and have names.

[A]

Yeah. And I would just say one more thing for pastors watching. There's usually two groups of people in your church when they're not giving. And there's a group that goes, they've believed the lie, that says, what's my hundred dollars a month gonna do? It's not gonna do anything. What's my $400 a month? It's not gonna do anything. Look at these big buildings. And look at all the need. And look, what's this? And the devil tells you your seat is insignificant. And you have to empower that group of people. No, you are a part of this. It matters. And not just, well, the Bible says so. And open up Malachi 3. Sure. But attach that family to kingdom purpose. On the flip side, though, is the wealthy person who walks in, who sold his company for 600 million, he goes, what are they gonna do with my money? Do they know what they're doing? Could that joker handle a million a year with his raggedy clothes on? And he's, you know, he doesn't even know how to iron a shirt. And so you have to be able to speak and empower both of them. And you've gotta be able to say, no, no, no, you're. Your seed is not small. It is significant. And like the woman who gave the two mites, it is more than. It is so powerful. It's also being able to communicate In a way, to the wealthy that goes. No, we're good stewards. I told you three years ago, we're going to build a building. We built it. I told you we're going to build a parking lot. We're building it. I said we were going to start locations. We're starting them. You also have to be able to let them know we can steward and be responsible by the will of God and by the mercy of God and by our brains that. No, we're gonna honor that as well. And we know how to steward that as well. And so. And pastors have to learn to speak to both.

[B]

It's love and trust. We all follow people for two reasons. Because number one, we believe they love us, and number two, we trust there's a lot of people we love. We don't follow.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But if they love you and they trust you and they believe in the mission, then there's just one question. What can I afford to do? Or what does God want me to do by faith, even if I can't afford it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Amen. Thank you for your time. Love you. Appreciate you. If you're watching this, make sure get on on Our Savior's Church YouTube, start following and listening to Pastor Jacob because there's so much gold in his sermons. You're such a blessing to so many guys that I could start name dropping who look to you, Torren Wells, Darius Daniels, on and on and on. That I could. Steve Robinson, Jeff Little, just who. Who look to you, call you Papa, call you dad, call you Pastor. Who you've just made such an impact. I know. In my life. Just the impact you've made. So grateful for you and excited for maybe some of my friends to now become your friends as well. So thank you for your time today.

[B]

Love you.

[A]

And excited about this.