← Jabin Chavez Leadership Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript47 lines
- [00:00]
A
Well, hey, everybody. I am here with a dear friend, really. Just kind of one of those Kingdom connections. That's what my pastor, Jensen Franklin, would say. I think Pastor Chris Hodges says it's a divine flow. You know, sometimes just meet somebody and you love them and you love their church and you love their spirit, and, you know, you leave and you go, man, I feel like I was a blessing to them, and I know they were a blessing to me. And I think that's kind of what you're always looking for, right? It's. It's not transactional, but it is this, like, beautiful relational thing that happens, this energy that happens, this flow that happens where it's like, man, I feel like both of our worlds just got better and bigger because we connect. And I can say that about Pastor Rodney, that, like, man, I just. And better being around North Church and being around his world, and I just love what he's doing and love the ministry and all that's happening. And I'm so blessed that I get to go to OKC every once in a while and preach at their amazing church. But, Pastor, I'm so honored that you're here with me today on the podcast, and I'm going to ask you some questions in a moment, but can you maybe just tell us a little bit about, like, when did you. Did you start the church or did you take on a church with North Church? Did you plant that or did you. Was that a succession plan?
- [01:36]
B
No, we. We planted the church, and I. I tell people we pioneered it. We did not have a mothering church, somebody coming alongside us, helping us. I did not have some of the support that you have now with some of the organizations like the ARK and Church Multiplication Network and many other opportunities out there there are to be able to learn and grow. I actually have a degree in biochemistry, did not even go to seminary. And so. But I'd been involved with ministry at a high level, but I had not ever been on church staff in any form or capacity of a paid staff, as a student pastor, as associate, as a lead pastor, never. And so at 34 years of age, much like you started in our living room and we had three people show up at the first meeting. Two of those people had just moved. Husband and wife just moved from Texas. And some way they heard about us, and they had only been here for a short time. And then another one was my neighbor. My neighbor who was not walking with Christ at time, though he kind of grew up in a church, but he was not walking with Christ at the time. And I tell people that was our first gathering, those three people, and really, no, very little relational equity. But my neighbor got saved that night, and I tell people that we had, you know, our first service, we had a third of our congregation got saved.
- [03:05]
A
Let's go revival.
- [03:07]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't even know if I've had those numbers since then. A third of the congregation got saved.
- [03:12]
A
So. Did you already live in okc? I know you're in the Oklahoma City area, but, like, were you already there or did you. Were you living there?
- [03:21]
B
Yeah, no, I was already living in this area north of Oklahoma City, several miles, actually, in another county. But. And so I. Yeah, I've been living here for about five years. When we started, you know, it's interesting. I was. When I say I wasn't ever on church staff, I was very much involved with ministry. And when I was at. I graduated, you know, Oklahoma State University, degree in biochemistry. I began to work with college students there on the campus, not with a particular church, but with a ministry called Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship, and served in that capacity for a while. So. And I actually wanted to start a church in that town, Stillwater, and I talked to some individuals, but then I was elected into this pastoral ministry of called the Assemblies of God, and I actually went to take over as a state youth director. So when I talk about me not being on a local church staff, I still was highly involved with ministry. And then I read camps, conferences and stuff for, you know, six years before we started the church. And then we started the church.
- [04:34]
A
What year did you plant?
- [04:37]
B
2002.
- [04:38]
A
2002.
- [04:39]
B
How?
- [04:40]
A
Because you go now and it's. It's just the church is pumping and growing and you're building up. Unbelievable now, massive. I. I hate to call it an addition because it's. You're. You're building a whole other massive new structure to your. To your current property. It's unbelievable. But. And I. And I've been able to go. And it's just the. The staff, the culture, the worship. How many years do you feel like it took you to start getting some momentum? Like, were you. Like, how many years were you all in? And then it was like, okay, this thing's. This thing's moving. Was that it. Was that a year? Was that 10 years? Like, you know, because now churches start, right. They start with 500 people, right? With ark and, you know, launch Sundays. 500.
- [05:31]
B
Right.
- [05:32]
A
So this was. This is a different day.
- [05:36]
B
It is a different day. And it's exactly. It's necessary. Cost of things. Inflation has you know, put so much more challenges on young church planters, but yet there's so many more opportunities and the capacity to be able to start much larger.
- [05:52]
A
Yeah.
- [05:52]
B
And so for me, that momentum was very slow. We were a very slow growth model. I mean, what's happening with you is astounding there in Vegas. And of course, you know, I say this, the kingdom of God is built on relationships. And you had, you know, a lot of relationships in a strong mega church that had a reach, east coast, west coast. And then of course then you bring your own gifts and talents that open doors for you to be able to minister and travel the country. And so you have a name recognition that I didn't have that is, you know, that you've stirred wisely and well and God is blessing and honoring that. And that's what it's about. You know, some people are given one talent, two talents, five talents and it's. But it's more important not the talent level you've been given, but what have you done with that talent? And I've never considered myself, I've talked to you about this A. When it comes to ministry, I'm a one talent guy. I feel like that I bring a hard work ethic, passion, hopefully integrity to the table that is going to be beneficial to growing a ministry. But when it comes to sheer talent and giftedness, I don't bring that to the table. But I think that through faithfulness becomes fruitfulness. And then over time, you know, things just began to move forward. So it was a slow growth and really I would say just coming out of COVID and of course we were still a strong church coming out of COVID but there has been an explosion for us since then that now we're saying how can we keep up with things? How do we, you know, hire, how do we continually put systems in place to be able to manage our growth? And now we're building an auditorium that is going to be expansive and in then our present facility, which is a little over 40,000 square feet concrete tilt up building that houses our five experiences right now and just booming numbers. It's going to become all next generation. And then we will move into the new auditorium which will seat somewhere around 1800 people and we'll be able to have lobby space and to continue, expand and continue to grow.
- [08:21]
A
Right.
- [08:22]
B
So to answer the question, really just the last few years.
- [08:25]
A
Yeah, I think that's so good for pastors to hear. You know, we were talking about, we were on your podcast earlier today talking about endurance, talking about Faithfulness, talking about faith and patience and, man, I think every, every pastor is going to have to experience that on some level in some area of their life. And I think it's just good for pastors to, you know, to see that.
- [08:51]
B
That.
- [08:54]
A
Your, your church wasn't this rocket ship. But you go now and it's just unbelievable and only getting better. Like every year it's stronger and it's better and it's. And now this new project. And so I just think that's super important for people to hear. Let me just fire these off. And I'm so excited to hear from you. This is the Jabyn Chavez Leadership Podcast. We're talking all things leadership. So when I say the word leader leadership, when I kind of say those kind of words, what comes to your mind? I'd love for you to just kind of, you know, no real right or wrong answer, but we're talking about Christian leaders, you know, specifically, what does that mean to you? And how would you define that and maybe give, especially the young guys who are watching us right now, some good handles for like this. I think we've talked so much about influencer and influence, but what does leadership mean to you?
- [10:09]
B
Yeah, I mean, obviously that word influences. Whenever I was working on a master's degree and took a leadership class, that's the word that pops up. And it's been there for years. But we're taking people on a journey. Can we, as a leader, can I cast a vision? A vision being a picture of a preferred future, of what could and should be if you just simply follow after me. And of course, Paul talked about follow me as I follow Christ. Obviously we're followers of Christ, but people need somebody to look to, and that's where the influencer comes along. But they need somebody to look to. Somebody obviously in the Christian sense of integrity that's grounded in the word of God, that's full of the Holy Spirit, that themselves are submitted to authority, but yet also they expect also others to submit to that authority. And then you create this picture through that vision that's given. And then you invite people along the journey with you, and they begin to believe that if I walk after and follow this individual, that they're going to be walking into greater kingdom in encounters and experience and power, and to embrace all that God has for them. And one of our statements, and this is not something new as far as our vision statements, is we're about developing fully devoted followers of Christ who love God, love people, and follow Jesus. And even the concept of while we have follow Jesus in there is. Is that when it comes to love God and love people, that's the great command that Jesus pulled out of the Old Testament, the Torah. And he said, here it is. And, you know, we. We understand that he said everything hinges on that. But here's the challenge. There's only one person that's ever actually loved God and loved people fully, completely, perfectly, and his name is Jesus.
- [12:11]
A
Right? Right.
- [12:13]
B
So that's why we're following him. But then when you have a leader that exemplifies what it means to follow Christ, they become somebody worth following. And I think that if I can draw that picture, not just with my words, but also with my actions, this vision, then I just become somebody who's attractable because people want to go on this mission with me as a leader.
- [12:43]
A
That's amazing. So now. So there's the leader side of it. And I would say to everybody watching, whether you're a pastor or not, if you're a leader, and that's why you're on this podcast, that is what you're doing. You're creating pictures with your words, with your values, with your culture, with your lifestyle. You're painting this picture of what could be and what should be that preferred future. I just love hearing that, and I love. And you've done that so well. So now there's the leader side of it. Here's the next one is pastor. So. And it's very weird, I would say, and I'd love for you to maybe dive into this, like, you and I are pastors, and we have to be leaders. So I've got to be a shepherd, but I also have to be an organizational leader. So we've talked about leadership. The other side of that coin maybe is pastoring. I think young pastors are watching right now. You know, if. If we've got a young pastor who's 25, 30, 35 years old, really, all they've heard in their ministry experience has been leadership. Right. They haven't really heard shepherding, pastoring. And to me, they're not the same. So can you talk about what it is to be a pastor?
- [14:11]
B
You know, Jaebin, this is one of the things that I probably struggle with more than anything else, with young guys that have just this zeal and passion to be able to do what I've done, to do what you do. And what I struggle with is that oftentimes the real driving force is that they want the stage to be this leader or influencer. And really, to be a shepherd requires you to be a servant. It's not just getting on the stage. It's being a servant. It's being able to have compassion for the sheep. It's being moved by their problems, their struggles, their journey, their issues. It is smelling like them. It is getting down there with them and getting into the dirt. Here's the thing as a pastor, and you understand this, there's only a few people that I can get in and, you know, smell like. I can't smell like all thousands of them. Just like you can't smell like the thousands of them. And some people want you to be that and that you can't do that. But I gotta be in the sheep pen with some of them and. And I've got to be able to get in there where I begin to smell like the sheep. I understand their hurts, their issues, their struggles, and the pain that they're going through, because then it gives me what I need to do in regards to loving them well and preaching to them well, and bringing to them what God wants me to bring to them. Because if I'm not. If I'm disconnected with where they're living, then man help me. I cannot bring the word that God has for my sheep.
- [15:57]
A
Totally. You know, it's. It's as you're saying that I'm just reminded that, you know, when. When we're, you know, all. All this, right? Like, we've got Romans through. Through that. So you got all that. All those are letters from Paul writing to the issues that they were going through. So it's like he knew. He knew what Philippi needed. He knew what Galatians needed. He knew what Colossae needed. He knew what Corinth needed. John knew what the Jews in Ephesus needed. And on and on and on we could go. The writer of Hebrews is writing a book to a congregation or a letter to a congregation about what they're going through. And so you've got to be connected enough to be able to know, like, man, this is what's going on in our church. And, you know, back in the day, Kenneth Hagin used to say, the pastor can't prophesy because he should be so relationally connected or soul connected, heart connected, that he almost can't be prophetic. So he would, you know, his whole thing was like, that's why you got to bring in guest ministry to come bring a prophetic. Thus saith the Lord. Because as the pastor, it doesn't mean we can never prophesy. We can't use the gifts of the Spirit, that's, you know, I hope people are understanding what I'm saying. I don't walk in on the weekends trying to be the prophet. I'm shepherding our church through what they're going through, and you can't do that if you're completely disconnected from what's going on in the life of the church. So I'm just so with you on that. And I just feel like you're such a great pastor because you're, You're. You're in it. And I think that pastors do have to, you know, they've. They've got to be connected enough with the people to be able to feel and sense the needs. And it doesn't mean you're preaching every weekend about the drama that's going on that, you know, that week. But, like, you should be able to get a pulse. You know, you should be able to feel a pulse for, like, man, we really need a relationship series right now. Or God, they are. We are just. We're getting. We're getting inundated with financial requests. We need to teach people about money. Or there's a lot of parents having issues with their kids. You know, I always tell pastors, like, don't. Don't overthink that. Right. I don't. And walk me through, because I know. I know our preaching is a little different, and I know. I want to say you do some book study, like, Bible book studies as well. Like through with the church. Walk me through kind of your approach to preaching as a pastor. People have told me you've. I've really evolved because I was really known as, like, that Pentecostal preacher. And I still have that gear every once in a while, especially on a Thursday night at North Church. But, like, I have. I've had to evolve into pastoring the people in my teaching and preaching. Can you help pastors a little bit with. With how. How you approach it? Because I think it could be really helpful for them.
- [19:36]
B
No. That's good. So at North Church, one of the things we've evolved over the last many years is when I started off, we did a lot of. Some topical. And then I. But I'm more of an expository type preacher. But we've evolved over the last many years where we are preaching along our reading plan. That's right.
- [19:56]
A
I remember this.
- [19:57]
B
Yeah. So we have a Reading Plan 1 and Reading Plan 2. Reading Plan 1 takes. If you read it all, it will take you through the New Testament in Psalms and Proverbs. Reading 2 incorporates the rest of The Old Testament. And so what we do is we preach our, you know, whatever it is we're doing from our reading plan, whatever reading that 7 to 14 days or so, we pick a text out of there and we are. That's what we are bringing. And most of it's pretty much expository type preaching. And we lean into that. And so what that means is like, if we're in, we're just coming out of the book of Acts and Jeremiah. And it means that we may just cover a little bit, but then we're coming back next year and we're diving more into. And I feel like it's been so good for us. And I don't know very many churches that do that. I know a lot of churches that will take like the Book of John and they'll spend a year on the Book of John.
- [20:54]
A
Right.
- [20:54]
B
Nothing wrong with that. To me, I think I would get a little bit bored with it.
- [20:59]
A
Yeah, I couldn't.
- [21:01]
B
And so I love our rhythm right now. I love what we're doing in regards to. We've been doing this for several years and it's not getting. Getting old. It's actually, we'll come back around to, you know, that book of the Bible, you know, a year from now, and then we'll look at, okay, what did we cover the last few years? And we'll look into other parts of. And I think it really helps people as they're reading a day to day and they're actually, you know, receiving extra nuggets and stuff on what they're reading. And actually we've started something called a North Bible Recap, which really dives into it, a podcast that really dives into week to week, those seven days, what are we reading? And then we, on that, we really dial in and we really talk about it. And I invite, you know, I always have one of my staff members that do the hard work and put in all the research in and we'll sit down, then I will discuss it with them. And it's been very positive for us to do that.
- [21:58]
A
I love that. And I think this is a good thing to just remind pastors of two like, so you're doing that. I'm doing, you know, eight or nine series a year on average. Because there's, there's some weeks where we're not in a series and then. But eight or nine series a year. I like that a few of those are usually a Bible, like a book of the Bible. And for me, those aren't exhaustive. Those are four to Six weeks, you know what I mean? So I'm not, I'm not in Ephesians for a year, you know what I mean? It's like I, you know, I kind of hit all the things that I want to hit and you know, and then move on to the next thing. You're doing this. Some guys, like my pastor Jensen, you know, he's writing a fresh hot out of the oven word from God every Saturday morning, right? And like Steven Furtick does that as well. And I think, as I would say, great preaching starts with an interested preacher. So like preacher, if you're into it and you're excited and you're walking into the pulpit fired up, you're already a step ahead. It's going to be hard to swing and amiss because you're pumped and you're excited and I think so if it's doing like what Rodney's doing, if it's doing what I'm doing, Jen said whatever. I would just say get. Do something that's stirring you up because I think that's where it all starts. It's like if you think about a great sermon and it's like, man, you loved it and you were excited about it and you really felt that burden for it, that conviction, that weight, man, it's going to be, it's going to be super helpful. Now one more thing, you're now a grandfather, father of adult children. So you've, you've walked through many seasons as a pastor, from pastoring with little kids up to now adult children, I don't think. Are any of your kids in full time ministry? They're not in full time, right?
- [24:07]
B
No, no, no. My son is a lawyer and. But he leads one of our north groups and the, actually in our north group is several of our pastors, Christian Velez and his wife Natalie, you know, Christian. And several of our pastors were actually in his north group and he and his wife are amazing. Of course they have four children and so the way they do it in this small group is they basically have one week as the guys and the next week's the girls and so they have in the house so the girl. So if he's doing the guys that day, all the guys show up and cause all of them have families and it's hard, it's hard when you start having kids and so they just do every other week so the guys will be together. She's responsible for putting the kids to bed at 8 o' clock. So they start later. Start like at 8 o' clock at Night. And then she's putting the kids to bed and all the women are staying home. And then the next week they switch and they. All the women come and get together and the guys are responsible for the kids, and I think it's working really good for them. So that's my son. Go ahead.
- [25:02]
A
Yeah, yeah. Then your daughter.
- [25:04]
B
And then I have a daughter that is a cpa. She worked hedge fund company in Dallas for several years. They got tired of the downtown living big. So they've come back and they've bought some land and they're building them a house and trying to live off the land type stuff while she's continuing to be a cpa and he's a realtor and so. And also a gym workout guy. And then a third one. And then both of those went to Oral Roberts University and they went. They met their spouses at Oral Roberts University. Wow. And. And then the. And then she has one child, so the first one's four. Second one has one child. The third one is a chemical engineer. And she went to Tulsa University and has played collegiately soccer, Division 1. Very athletic young lady. And then is a chemical engineer. And now she doesn't really spend all her time in chemical engineering. She pretty much leads and manages a large group of team. And. And so that's what she does. And she lives in Tulsa. So my. My two older kids, their families are all in our church involved. My youngest one is living in Tulsa and going to a Woodlake church up there.
- [26:14]
A
So. So kids who love God love you. Highly successful. So you've done it. You've done it. Right. And you've just been such a great example in that great family. Maybe just walk with pastors through. Through the different seasons.
- [26:33]
B
Right.
- [26:33]
A
And your kids were very active in school and in sport and in all those kind of things as well. How did you kind of. I don't take a couple of minutes before we end. I think just helping pastors navigate specifically family life. And some of the things you and your wife did well.
- [26:52]
B
Well, it's always a challenge growing a church. In that process, you got to know your rhythms, you got to know where you're at. You got to know. One of the things that my wife was very intentional about is that while she was leading usually women's small group and was involved with the church, and when we started, initially she was leading the kids ministry and making sure that everything was up and running, she also made it very clear that her first responsibility was to take care of me and take care of the family and so because I was given more of my time to the church, that she said, somebody has to take care of these three kids and get them to activities and sports and all the stuff. Early on, I had to realize at the end of the day, every day, I would check in my wife and say, hey, where do I go? What do I do? How can I help? I tend to lean into, get up early, get there early, work so that I could have that early evening time to be able to run the kids around, do whatever needs to be done. We also had to begin to work as a couple to find rhythms of our own personal time together. What did that look like? Totally. And when the kids were very, very small, I'm talking about elementary age and down. What we would typically do is just we would pick, you know, every couple of months or so where we'd bring somebody in to stay the night with the kids and we would try to leave and go to a bed and breakfast that was just, you know, not very far away. Just. Just. Just, you know, 40 minutes away or 30 minutes away or whatever. Yeah, just. Just a 24 hours where we just locked ourselves in a room and it's just us. And we would maybe go out to eat and come back to the place or order food in and just. That was kind of a rhythm a little bit we had. When they're real young, when the kids begin to get very active in sports, we began to change that to afternoon dates where I would. It was Wednesday at the time that I would come meet her somewhere for lunch, and we would have an extended lunch, extended time, you know, together or whatever. But we get to find those rhythms of what works for us. And then also, I think it's very important to incorporate your kids and your family along the journey of church. You don't need to put this church out there. And then dad and mom or whatever is just doing a completely different. You know, we want to make them feel like they're a part of it without the expectations of them live being perfect. I made it very clear to the people and around me and stuff that. And I even try to practice now with my young staff that have kids. I want those kids to feel comfortable coming to church and running. And when I see them kind of getting onto them from running, well, if they're disobeying mom and dad for something, that's one thing. But I want them to feel comfortable to be able to run, to play and to laugh and to just to be themselves. And we're not raising perfect kids. And I don't want to put that up on my children, and I did not want to put that up on any of our staff. That we are raising kids just like everybody else. Our kids are trying to figure out the journey. I want them to feel protected and safe, and I want them to feel that it's okay to fail. It's okay to have children that have, you know, that are. That have. That have made some mistakes, that we are okay with that. And we are going to help, you know, see them grow and to become the type of young man or young lady that God wants them to become.
- [30:24]
A
Yep. Yeah. I just think that's so good. I think what I'm hearing from that is it's constant, you know, it's tensions to manage. Right. Every season's different. Summer's different than the school year. Third grade is different than the seventh grade. Like, this season of church is different than that season of church. So I think it's constantly tweaking, constantly managing, constantly finding the right tension. And then I. What came to my mind that I think is just important, especially for guys who are listening. Like, talk to your wife about it. What do you need from me? How can I help in this season? What are the struggles and what are you going through? And how can I. I've never asked. Set of my wife, and she's gone. I don't know. She knows, like, if you'll open the door even to your wife and say, hey, can you. How can I. How can I be a better teammate with the kids? And in this season? And, oh, man, she will absolutely have some. Some ideas on how you can help and serve. And so I just love hearing that because I think a lot of young guys maybe are looking at us and, you know, well, they've just. They just figured it out and they just. It just happened and it's like nothing great just happens.
- [31:44]
B
It's.
- [31:44]
A
It's. We're managing. We're. We're evolving. We're twice. We're fighting.
- [31:52]
B
We're.
- [31:53]
A
We're. We're. We're hand is always on the wheel. Right? That's always how I think. You know, you never just get in the car and just forget about it now. You're always. Hands always on the wheel. Foot's always. There's gas and brake, and it's. It's constantly going on. And I think it's just so good, I think, for people to hear, especially from someone like you and Pastor Rodney Fouts. I love you so much. I love North Church. I love all that you guys are doing. And I so appreciate the friendship, the generosity over the years, the, just the, the great conversations that we have always had. And I love that we're now having one on camera so that some of my friends can meet some of my friends, some of some people in my world that haven't been able to meet you. I'm so glad that they're now being able to do that and just love all that God's doing for you that are watching. They're in a massive building project right now that it's going to be world class and I can't wait to see that come to completion. So be praying for them. But hey, thank you for being with me and to my Javen Chavez leadership people, make sure that you're liking, you're subscribing, you're doing all the things. We're on the City Light Vegas page now and so we're releasing live streams every Sunday, a brand new sermon every Sunday night, leadership podcast every Wednesday, and then a brand new worship song every Friday. So a lot of content for you so that make sure you're following along with us and we'll see you next Wednesday.