Podcast Summary

Overview

Episode: Why The Church Needs Pastors (Feat. Rodney Fouts) | #070
Podcast: Jabin Chavez Leadership Podcast
Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Jabin Chavez
Guest: Rodney Fouts (Lead Pastor, North Church, OKC)

This episode explores the essential but often misunderstood role of the pastor within the modern church, particularly in distinction to organizational leadership. Jabin Chavez and Rodney Fouts dive into church planting, leadership dynamics, pastoral calling, the difference between leading and shepherding, preaching philosophies, and practical family rhythms for pastors—offering invaluable insights for established and aspiring church leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Journey of Church Planting & Growth

• Rodney’s Beginnings:
  Rodney Fouts shares his story of pioneering North Church in Oklahoma City in 2002 with no denominational or organizational backing—just faith, a call, and a groundbreaking first gathering in his living room with three people.

  "...we pioneered it. We did not have a mothering church...I did not have some of the support that you have now..." (Rodney Fouts, 01:36)

• First Fruits:
  At the first meeting, Rodney’s neighbor (not walking with Christ at the time) gave his life to Jesus—“a third of our congregation got saved.”

  "I tell people that was our first gathering, those three people...my neighbor got saved that night, and…I don't even know if I've had those numbers since then." (Rodney Fouts, 03:06)

• Slow Momentum:
  Growth was gradual, emphasizing longevity over instant results; only in recent years has North Church experienced explosive expansion, especially post-COVID, requiring new systems and infrastructure for next-gen ministry and an 1800-seat auditorium.

  “…for me, momentum was very slow. We were a very slow growth model...just the last few years [have seen] an explosion for us.” (Rodney Fouts, 05:52, 08:22)

2. Leadership: Influence and Vision (10:08–13:00)

• Leadership Defined:
  Leadership is about influence, vision, and taking people on a journey:

  “Can I cast a vision—a picture of a preferred future, what could and should be, if you just simply follow after me?” (Rodney Fouts, 10:08)
  “It's more important not the talent level you've been given, but what have you done with that talent?” (Rodney Fouts, 05:52)

• Followable Leaders:
  Leaders must live lives worth emulating—integrity, submission to authority, and a tangible connection to people’s lives.

  "When you have a leader that exemplifies what it means to follow Christ, they become somebody worth following." (Rodney Fouts, 12:12)

3. Pastor vs. Leader—Shepherding in the Modern Church (14:11–16:00)

• Leadership Culture Shift:
  Younger pastors have heard much about leadership, less about shepherding. Being a pastor requires a servant’s heart and deep connection, "smelling like the sheep," not just platform presence.

  “To be a shepherd requires you to be a servant. It's not just getting on the stage. It's being a servant...it is smelling like them.” (Rodney Fouts, 14:11)

• Relational Ministry:
  Pastors must stay connected enough to sense the real needs and pulse of the flock, resembling Paul writing to specific issues in the churches (Romans, Corinthians, etc.).

  “You've got to be connected enough to know, ‘this is what's going on in our church’.” (Jabin Chavez, 15:57)

4. Preaching Approaches & Philosophy (19:36–22:30)

• Preaching from the People’s Context:
  Rodney shares North Church’s unique rhythm—preaching through a church-wide reading plan, which rotates between New Testament, Psalms, Proverbs (Reading Plan 1), and the rest of the old Testament (Reading Plan 2).

  “We preach...from our reading plan...we pick a text out of there and that's what we are bringing. Most of it's expository type preaching.” (Rodney Fouts, 19:57)

• Integration of Learning:
  The reading plan helps the congregation stay biblically literate and simultaneously engaged with what is preached, supported by a companion “North Bible Recap” podcast.

  "...it's been very positive for us to do that." (Rodney Fouts, 21:58)

• Personal Excitement in Preaching:
  Jabin emphasizes that passion is key regardless of style or structure:

  "Great preaching starts with an interested preacher...if you're into it and you're excited...you're already a step ahead." (Jabin Chavez, 22:30)

5. Navigating Family Life as a Pastor (24:06–30:23)

• Family Seasons:
  Rodney's children are grown and thriving (not in vocational ministry), yet are active, involved, and love God. Insights on raising children as a pastor without imposing unrealistic expectations.

  “I want them to feel comfortable to be able to run, to play and to laugh and to just be themselves. And we're not raising perfect kids...” (Rodney Fouts, 29:00)

• Rhythms and Priorities:
  Rodney and his wife prioritized family by scheduling one-on-one time, taking quick getaways for marriage health, adapting rhythms as seasons changed, and making church life inclusive for children—while never demanding perfection.

  “Every day, I would check in [with] my wife: ‘where do I go? What do I do? How can I help?’...we had to begin to work as a couple to find rhythms.” (Rodney Fouts, 26:51)

• Encouragement to Young Pastors:
  Jabin points out that healthy ministry-family balance is dynamic and requires continual attention and honest dialogue:

  “It's tensions to manage. Every season's different...Talk to your wife about it. What do you need from me? How can I help in this season?" (Jabin Chavez, 30:23)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Kingdom Connections:

  “It's not transactional, but it is this, like, beautiful relational thing...I feel like both of our worlds just got better and bigger because we connect.” (Jabin Chavez, 00:00)

• On Fruitfulness and Faithfulness:

  “Through faithfulness becomes fruitfulness.” (Rodney Fouts, 05:52)

• On Pastoral Calling:

  “It's being able to have compassion for the sheep. It's being moved by their problems, their struggles...It is smelling like them.” (Rodney Fouts, 14:11)

• On Leading with Integrity:

  "People need somebody to look to, somebody with integrity that's grounded in the word of God, that's full of the Holy Spirit." (Rodney Fouts, 10:08)

• On Family Rhythms:

  “Nothing great just happens...we're evolving, we're fighting...hand is always on the wheel.” (Jabin Chavez, 31:53)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:36] Rodney shares his church planting experience
• [05:52] Discussing slow church growth and faithfulness
• [10:08] Defining leadership and influence
• [14:11] Pastoring vs. leading; the importance of shepherding
• [19:57] Teaching approach: preaching with the church Bible reading plan
• [24:06] Raising a family while pastoring; adult children’s involvement
• [26:51] Maintaining healthy family rhythms and boundaries
• [30:23] Final thoughts: healthy ministry-family balancing and continual adjustment

Takeaways for Leaders

• Longevity over Hype: Slow, faithful progress often bears fruit in surprising ways.
• Shepherding Matters: Real pastoral leadership is about relational, sacrificial care—not just strategic influence or platform presence.
• Preach What Feeds You: Find a rhythm or style as a preacher that brings personal passion and aligns with your congregation's growth.
• Family First: Healthy ministry starts at home; sustainable leadership requires rhythms that work for your context and season.
• Keep the Conversation Open: Leading a church and family well means staying attuned, adaptable, and humble.

This episode offers both philosophical insights and practical tools for anyone in church leadership, especially those navigating the modern tension between leadership and shepherding.