Jack Hibbs Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Justice Or Forgiveness?
Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Jack Hibbs
Podcast: Jack Hibbs Podcast (Real Life)

Overview

In this episode, Pastor Jack Hibbs addresses the difficult tension between justice and forgiveness, particularly in the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Drawing from biblical teachings and real-world examples, Hibbs explores what true forgiveness actually means, especially when faced with unthinkable tragedy or deep personal hurt. He challenges listeners to move beyond an emotionally-driven understanding toward a biblically-grounded view, emphasizing the power and necessity of forgiveness for personal freedom, spiritual health, and as a testimony to the world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Moment and Forgiveness

• Hibbs opens by reflecting on public conversation following the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the powerful act of forgiveness expressed by his widow, Erica Kirk.

• He notes how Erica’s decision to forgive her husband's killer stirred reactions: some supportive, some angry, many confused.

  • “When Erica said, ‘I forgive that young man who took Charlie’s life,’ the crowd cheered. The crowd wept. There were also people in the crowd who were angry…They want the guy to fry in hell…They were miserable about that.” [04:57]

• Hibbs discusses how Erica’s posture is attracting international interest—particularly among Islamic women, who are struck by her extraordinary act of forgiveness.

  • “I've been watching the response of the women in the Islamic world…God is using Erica's witness.” [03:00]

2. Emotionally-Based vs. Biblically-Based Theology

• Hibbs explains the pitfalls of a theology built mainly on emotion rather than Scripture.

  • “Most of the world operates off of emotionally-based theology, which always, always, always leads to error. Perfectly. 100% leads to error.” [04:30]

• He urges listeners to distinguish between genuine biblical mandates and personal feelings, especially about justice and vengeance.

3. The Biblical Basis for Forgiveness

• Among Believers:

  • Forgiveness within the church (Christian family) maintains fellowship, not salvation itself.
  • Quotes 1 John 1:9:
    • “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness…” [06:27]
  • He clarifies that these epistles target believers, not unbelievers, focusing on keeping relationships clear of offense and obstacles.

• Toward Enemies:

  • Hibbs addresses whether believers must forgive someone like an assassin or mass murderer.

    • “This is not the issuing of forgiveness that absolves him of responsibility. He’s a murderer—he’s an assassin—he’s committed murder.” [09:42]

  • Forgiveness, in this context, is NOT about removing consequences but about releasing personal control and bitterness.

    • “When Erica said, ‘I forgive him,’ this is what she was doing: I put you into the hands of the Lord…I release you to God.” [10:23]

4. Forgiveness Releases, Justice Remains

• Forgiveness isn’t about denying or removing justice.

• The Christian is commanded to forgive as Christ forgave us, freeing themselves from ongoing emotional bondage.

  • “You, assassin, are no longer going to have any control or power over my life …I will not pine away plotting your demise. Vengeance is the Lord's. He will repay.” [12:18]

• True forgiveness results in personal freedom; refusing to forgive only continues the wound.

  • “Don’t get caught up into the trap where you say, ‘I’ll never forgive that person for what they did to me’…They’re the ones that ripped you off, but you’re the one seething for 30 years.” [22:55]

5. The Nature of Sin and Universal Need for Mercy

• Sin, according to God, has no hierarchy—murder, lying, theft, and adultery are all offenses needing forgiveness.
  • “There’s no rate or scale of sin. Sin is sin to God. We’re the bozos that want to prioritize it to make ourselves feel justified. And we are dead wrong.” [11:10]
• The cross was for all, including the “worst” of sinners. Christ died for the world—including assassins, dictators, and terrorists.
  • “Did you know that Jesus Christ, according to the Bible, loves that assassin? …Jesus Christ loved Adolf Hitler in light of everything he did.” [25:50]

6. Justice, Mercy, and the Example from History

• Hibbs offers an example from ancient England: those condemned for capital crimes received two weeks of daily gospel ministry before execution—a blend of justice and grace.
  • “A condemned criminal should be given the gospel, that’s mercy. …Then on the day of his execution, be executed. That’s justice.” [16:47]
  • “During that interim between the mercy and the justice is the opportunity of grace to accept Christ and be forgiven.” [18:47]
• He suggests that this practice was both biblically sound and a societal deterrent, arguing its merits for today.

7. Forgiveness as Command and Freedom

• God grants believers the power to forgive, not so the sinner is absolved, but so the believer is free.

  • “God grants you and I…the power to forgive those who have sinned against us so that we release them from the control they have over our lives…We commit them to his justice and his grace and his mercy, and we get up and we live our lives free.” [20:34]

• Hibbs warns against the hypocrisy of demanding vengeance for others’ sins while expecting grace for our own.

8. Repentance, Relationship, and Practical Application

• For believers: Unforgiveness blocks their fellowship and communication with God—not their salvation.
  • “If we don’t forgive those who have sinned against us, God won't forgive us. …It means communication is going to be cut off.” [23:57]
• For the lost: Repentance toward God is what leads to forgiveness and salvation.
• He urges introspection and humility:
  • “Once you realize how much Christ has forgiven you, it becomes easy to forgive others.” [27:02]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Forgiveness and Vengeance:
  “Some people would’ve felt better if Erica would have said, ‘I hope that guy rots in hell.’ …But they don’t know God. You cannot know God and revel over the damnation of a human soul for which Jesus Christ died.” [13:55]

• On the Danger of Emotional Theology:
  “Are you sure? Are you sure about that? Because God will do that to you if you don’t repent. …No one’s pointing at themselves and condemning themselves.” [15:28]

• On True Justice:
  “God is just…justice must be implemented…If a human murders another human, the justice system must take that human’s life. Life for a life. That is justice.” [15:45]

• On Personal Freedom through Forgiveness:
  “God gave you the ability to forgive them for sinning against you so that you can go free—let God deal with them.” [23:10]

• On Salvation at the Last Moment:
  “The thief on the cross, he was on his way to hell…all he said to Jesus was, ‘Will you remember me when you come into your kingdom?’…And Jesus says, ‘Today you'll be with me in paradise.’” [26:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:00 | Introduction & Context
• 02:07–04:30 | The public response to Erica Kirk’s forgiveness
• 04:30–06:27 | Emotional vs. biblical foundations for forgiveness
• 06:27–11:10 | The biblical framework: forgiveness in the church, examples from Jesus and Stephen
• 11:10–15:28 | The meaning and limits of forgiveness—what it is/isn’t
• 15:28–20:34 | The relationship between justice and grace; historical practices
• 20:34–23:10 | Forgiveness as spiritual self-liberation
• 23:10–26:10 | Justice, salvation, and the universality of grace
• 26:10–27:39 | Final reflections and practical application

Closing Thoughts

• Hibbs challenges the listener to examine the depth and reality of their own forgiveness, both received and given.
• True forgiveness does not minimize evil or erase justice; instead, it surrenders the right to revenge, entrusting ultimate justice to God and walking free.
• Listeners are encouraged to measure their theology by Scripture, not by emotion, and to let God, not pain or bitterness, be the master of their future.

[End of summary. Podcast content concluded at 27:39.]