← James Reed: all about business
James Reed: all about business
11. Rob Moore: Money is not a rich man’s game! How to turn debt into millions
01:06:28
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- [00:00]
James Reed
Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business, management and leadership. Every episode I sit down with different guests who bootstrapped companies, masterminded investment models, or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture. What would you do if you lost almost everything and were tens of thousands of pounds in debt? Today's guest, Rob Moore went from having nothing to being a multimillionaire in less than five years. Now he's a self made property investor, entrepreneur and author, helping his legion of followers take control of their finances and become disruptive entrepreneurs. He's here to tell you why property isn't a rich man's game, value of your time versus money, and the trait that all billionaires share. Thank you so much for coming in to see me today. I think it was five years ago that we met in this very room when I appeared on your Disruptors podcast. And I remember, I remember I was thinking about, I think I was late. I think I was about 20 minutes late and fun enough. You were today. So is this.
- [01:21]
Rob Moore
What a great way to intro me. There was a fire on, on the train line. I got in the dirtiest taxi from Big you saw it was. So you made a big paid 165lb taxi fare to get here. Let's just put this lateness into context.
- [01:38]
James Reed
Okay then, then, thank you again for that commitment problem. So it wasn't just a sort of revenge strike?
- [01:44]
Rob Moore
No, no it wasn't.
- [01:45]
James Reed
I'm grateful. So to introduce you fairly and probably, you are an entrepreneur, you are an author. Some of your books are here and two of them, but you're a 17 others I believe you are a podcaster of note having I believe done over a thousand podcasts. So there's a lot of things I want to ask you about, but the first thing I want to ask you about is you built a business from nothing into Million pound plus in less than five years. And that is going to be of great interest to a lot of prospective entrepreneurs and people listening. How did you do that? What did you do? Just give us the heads up.
- [02:25]
Rob Moore
Well, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur because my dad was one and he ran pubs and bars and clubs. He's nearly 81 now and he got me working age six, which of course would probably be illegal now. But I loved it and I wanted to work in the pubs and the bars more than I Did go to school, didn't really like school. And then I'm 26, 50,000 pounds in debt, got a university degree and did nothing with it. Architecture, completely kind of useless really for me. Felt very lost, didn't know where I wanted to go in my life. And my dad had this really big nervous breakdown in his pub in front of all of his customers. It was a horrific thing for us. He got beaten up by the police. It was. He got diagnosed with bipolar and it all happened very publicly. And I remember around that time, for a few weeks after, just thinking, things can't really get any worse. I'm supposed to be pretty intelligent, I've got a degree. My dad raised me to be entrepreneurial and yet here I am, nearly 27, losing at every area of life. But the one gift that gave me was, well, things can't get any worse. Screw it, I suppose. So a few serendipitous things happened. I was doing part time art to try and pay off the debts and a gallery owner who was almost like a little mentor to me was very supportive of me. He said, there's this property meeting going on at the holiday and you should go. And of course the first thing I said was, why I haven't got any money. And also, if I'm honest, I didn't really like rich or entrepreneurs back then. I was a bit like the rage against the machine, you know, system, you know, all of that, which I know now is a really bad.
- [04:15]
James Reed
What you write in your book about disliking the man in the Ferrari. Yeah. Then you become the guy which you now have.
- [04:22]
Rob Moore
Yeah, yeah. And it was. It's weird how you can become the thing you hate, but it was ignorance more than anything else. And so I ended up going to this property meeting and I hated it. And I sat at the back, I didn't want to talk to anyone and I felt very out of place in my ripped jeans and my spiky hair and my rock T shirts and everyone was in a suit.
- [04:46]
James Reed
And what were they talking about?
- [04:48]
Rob Moore
Well, they were just talking about property. What did I know about property? And I just didn't fit in. But I, I now know property doesn't have a type. As you know, entrepreneurship doesn't have a type. We're both entrepreneurs and we're, you know, we look and we're different and we've had different backgrounds. So business, entrepreneurship, money, it doesn't have a type. Which is great news for everyone listening. You know, you think you're in debt, you think you're Struggling. You think you've got the wrong upbringing. No, it doesn't have a type. And I learned that a few years after. So I went to this property meeting and I met my business partner there right at the end, the last person I spoke to and we started forging a friendship out of business. And very quickly we got into business together and within the first year we'd bought 20 properties with his money. Within the second year we bought another 30 with his money. We'd started our own training company and like you said, we got that to more than a million pounds in less than five years and we peaked at about 25 million in sales. Lockdown happened and that made it a bit harder in the training business. And then we've got 345 properties that we own.
- [05:58]
James Reed
So you had 25 million sales in the training business?
- [06:01]
Rob Moore
Yeah, that was. We're still nearly there.
- [06:04]
James Reed
I know that market. That's a big training business.
- [06:07]
Rob Moore
Yeah. I mean for the UK it is.
- [06:09]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [06:09]
Rob Moore
And I'd like to push it more. But lockdown, it's been a journey. And it all started with minus 50 grand in debt. And the first way I funded my lean startup was by meeting a business partner who was a bit further down the line than me and had a bit more money than me and a bit more experience than me. We used my hustle and desperation and thirst and drive and commitment and desperation, quite frankly. And we, we used his experience and money and that became a good partnership.
- [06:42]
James Reed
So you've said a number of things that have rung bells for me. You were 26.
- [06:46]
Rob Moore
I hope I answered the question behind the way. You did. You did.
- [06:49]
James Reed
And. But you've said you've prompted some more questions in. Mind you, I was listening to you. 26, I think when you went to that.
- [06:54]
Rob Moore
Yeah, 26 and years and 11 months.
- [06:56]
James Reed
And that was exactly the same age as my father was when he started our business.
- [07:00]
Rob Moore
Oh, wow.
- [07:01]
James Reed
And, and we've had other people on this podcast who started businesses and I think they've all been 26. So anyone approaching 26 should be thinking carefully about that. You, you also accepted a suggestion or invitation of. I've long spoken about the power of invitations and conversations with transformational. I mean that was a life changing decision to go that property leasing.
- [07:22]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [07:23]
James Reed
And meeting your now business partner.
- [07:25]
Rob Moore
Yes.
- [07:26]
James Reed
So what I take from that is the things that don't seem very significant at the time can take on huge significance subsequently, if you're open to going to them. That's how I met my wife. Going to Something when I didn't want to go rang that bell. So, you know, just being open to doing things is also. Especially early in your career, but all through it, I think. And then you said that you built a training business as well as a property business. What were you training? I mean, what was the idea there? What got you to do both at the same time?
- [07:59]
Rob Moore
So I'd like to connect back to something you said, because I wrote a book called Opportunity, and when it comes to Opportunity, when you're starting out, I think it's important to say yes first and then seek out the how later. And we used to go to all sorts of events. After I met my business partner in 2006 and 7, we must have gone to a hundred networking events and business events, and they kind of died with lockdown. They're coming back now. So I completely agree with you. You're a bit out of your depth. You don't know what to do. You don't know if it's right for you. Try it. Because other. Other doors will open up. And that's why I wrote that book. So, yeah, I wanted to connect back to that. So regarding the training business, it's on what we did. So we started buying property and owning property, and it wasn't long before people like you guys aren't even 30. How have you got 50, 60 properties in your portfolio? You need to teach how to do these residential properties. Yeah, I mean, we do commercials now. We do blocks now. And so my training business started with my first book called Property Investing secrets, because around 27 stroke 8, we'd amassed, I don't know, maybe 50 or 60 properties. We'd sold some, but we'd kept a decent amount. Enough people were asking about it and trying to get our knowledge that I thought, well, I might as well write a book. And then anytime anyone asks me, at least I can get a tenor for it. Or don't have to keep repeating myself. So you'll be.
- [09:32]
James Reed
So you're generous in sharing your knowledge. You weren't keeping that as a secret?
- [09:36]
Rob Moore
No. Well, obviously, I've done thousands of podcast episodes, tens of thousands video. So, yeah, I do think I'm generous with my knowledge, but I've also built the training business on it, which does well as well. I believe the more you give, the more you receive, as opposed to we can't tell everyone your secrets.
- [09:53]
James Reed
Yes, that's worked well for you. So. So what's the key point in the book?
- [09:57]
Rob Moore
Well, property is about one, finding a local area or a close catchment area. That works well. You can't dot all over the country doing it because it's actually quite a. It's not just a national market, it's a local market. So that's one, two is finding the type of property that works in your area. It might be multi let students, professionals in our area, converting commercial because there's lots of empty space into residential above and then leasing out the shops below works really, really well. That's the second one. And then the third thing is raising money because even if you've got some savings and deposits, you'll soon run out if you want to build a portfolio. So at some point you're going to need to get good at raising money. I've since learned with my, what, two decades of research on money that pretty much every billionaire, I think, bar none, had to get good at raising money at some point, whether it was, you know, to sell shares in the business to grow. So everyone thinks property is a rich person's game. It's not. It's a raising money game. So they're probably the three top tips.
- [11:06]
James Reed
Very interesting. So, so how did you raise the money?
- [11:09]
Rob Moore
Well, my business partner initially.
- [11:11]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [11:12]
Rob Moore
So I didn't know.
- [11:13]
James Reed
But you didn't know you had the money when you first met him.
- [11:15]
Rob Moore
No, I didn't. And it's probably a good job I didn't because I probably would have messed, fluffed my lines and messed it all up.
- [11:20]
James Reed
It would have raised the tension.
- [11:21]
Rob Moore
Yeah, exactly. I probably would have behaved in a different way. I probably would have felt like a bit insecure and not worthy. But we were both similar age. He's a year younger. We'd both recently been made single by getting dumped. So we, we were going, we were going out on the town back when there used to be a nightlife and we, we were interested in property and business. Me right at the start, him relatively at the start. But he'd had a few years ahead of me and he had built up some savings because, for example, he's the kind of, he just loves investing. So when we were all drinking our student loans, he invested it, he took a student loan and invested it in the markets. And so over, what, probably 10 years, from age 16 to 26, he'd amassed a portfolio of properties. It was probably nearly a millionaire, very quiet, humble, secret one. Not like a gregarious one, but because I was a bit more out there, prepared to take some risks, prepared to learn stuff like, he doesn't do personal brand, I do all that. He doesn't do content, I do all that he quickly figured out. Rob, he's a bit of a rough diamond, but there's something about him and I figured out fairly quickly, mostly when he got drunk and told me how much money he had and which he didn't mean to do. I've figured out he was a bit ahead of the game with me. He had a bit of money, he had a stepdad who still to this day does had money. So he had the money and the experience I had, I had the energy. And that's how we funded probably our first 50 deals.
- [12:54]
James Reed
I would say we're delighted that you're listening to this episode. Hit the follow button so that we can continue to bring you the best business insight and actionable advice to help your business and or career. So you also said at the outset that you'd been in university, you'd done a job, architecture degree. You did come out with debt. You seem a bit down. What would you say to young people wondering whether to go to university or not?
- [13:22]
Rob Moore
Do you want me to get you canceled here?
- [13:26]
James Reed
I'm not sure what you're going to say next.
- [13:28]
Rob Moore
I know I'll be balanced. I think if you want to be a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer, a solicitor, an accountant, it's still probably relevant to go to university in those kind of professions. I think if you want to be an entrepreneur, it's the wrong place to go. I really do. Because here's the paradox. You go to university and the people who are teaching finance and business are on 40, 50 grand salaries. Nothing wrong with that. But, you know, probably not the kind of money you want to make as an entrepreneur or to be wealthy. And I think the what the teacher, what the system is teaching you is at best out of date and at worst as an ulterior motive to bring you into the system to make the banks rich and, you know, pay your taxes and more taxes and more taxes. So I think if you want to be a free thinking, independent, fast moving, dynamic, dare I say, disruptive entrepreneur, I don't think you should go to university because I think it will probably educate out of you the traits you already have inbuilt within you that you were born with to be entrepreneurial. Also, the amount that it costs now, James, is ridiculously expensive to put yourself through college or university and with the Internet, social media, AI, you know, experienced investors and entrepreneurs like yourself on these podcasts, people like me, creators, influencers, between all of that, you can get so much knowledge now online.
- [14:58]
James Reed
I went to two universities and I'm wondering whether I should have done. One of them was a business school in America and I think that was useful. The first one I went to, I had to unlearn quite a lot of stuff.
- [15:08]
Rob Moore
Yes.
- [15:09]
James Reed
And I think unlearning is sometimes as important as learning.
- [15:12]
Rob Moore
I agree.
- [15:12]
James Reed
And so if you. If you go with your sort of.
- [15:16]
Rob Moore
So would you send your kids to uni now?
- [15:18]
James Reed
Some of them have been and some of them haven't. I've got six kids.
- [15:20]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [15:22]
James Reed
And most of them have been to university. Not all, though. And one of them's not sure whether she wants to stay there.
- [15:29]
Rob Moore
Right. So the ones. The ones that have been to university, are they entrepreneurs?
- [15:34]
James Reed
One is, yeah. But he was the most reluctant student.
- [15:37]
Rob Moore
Ah.
- [15:38]
James Reed
So.
- [15:38]
Rob Moore
So, yeah, yeah.
- [15:39]
James Reed
There might be something in what you say, so. But I think it's interesting. Well, my dad left school at 16. I've interviewed lots of entrepreneurs who did not go to university. You know, it's more common, in fact, for not to have done. To have done. Although there are definitely both sides.
- [15:53]
Rob Moore
And actually the important message, I think, is you don't have to.
- [15:56]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [15:57]
Rob Moore
Because whether I think it's right or wrong, a lot of people think, well, you have to go to university.
- [16:02]
James Reed
You don't have to. You want to be.
- [16:04]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [16:04]
James Reed
I mean, you went to university. So did I, interestingly.
- [16:07]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [16:07]
James Reed
You're saying you don't have to.
- [16:08]
Rob Moore
And I think it was a waste for me, really do.
- [16:11]
James Reed
And so what, you know, you mentioned all these sort of opportunities to learn, but what would you say to a young person would be the best way to start your entrepreneurial apprenticeship?
- [16:22]
Rob Moore
If you like, or read your books.
- [16:24]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [16:25]
Rob Moore
Watch and listen to podcasts like this. Follow all the top business people, entrepreneurs and creators in either business and entrepreneurship and. Or in the niche that you're already in. And you can do most of that for free, or you're paying £10 for a book. In fact, you can get audible credit. So even if you're hard up. Yeah, you can. You can start now. There's a big difference between, like an influencer type and someone like yourself who's been doing it a long time and is proven. The influencer type is probably good on social media. You've got decades of business experience. Learn from both types. I'm probably some. I'm probably sat in the middle between those two extremes, but, yeah, just be hungry to learn. There's a saying, the more you learn, the more you earn. And be hungry to learn and continue to remain curious. Yes. And, you know, one of the 21 common traits in billionaires. I've interviewed 23 billionaires and I stayed in touch with most of those and I did 10 year research project for my book Money. And of the 21 common habits I could pick out, intense curiosity is one of them. Like a lot of billionaires I've interviewed, they start turning the tables on me and asking me questions. I'm sitting there thinking, you're the billionaire. I'm not a billionaire. But they, yeah, intense curiosity is, it's a great. You will get wealthy or become a good entrepreneur if you stay curious and stay hungry.
- [17:56]
James Reed
So how do you stay hungry?
- [17:58]
Rob Moore
Well, there's two ways to stay hungry. I mean when it comes to food, you're the most hungry when you haven't eaten for a long time. So actually being broke or not being where you want to be in life or having some insecurities or some failures, this is actually really good for being successful. You know, you'll know this. Many entrepreneurs failed the first or the second time. Many people went bust one, two, three times in America. Having gone bust is actually a tick on whether they'll lend you money because it shows that you're prepared to, to take risks. So you can either go, you keep the hunger through some pain and you tune into that and in.
- [18:38]
James Reed
So that's inside you're making a very sort of touchy reference.
- [18:44]
Rob Moore
I'm an emotional guy, but for people.
- [18:46]
James Reed
Who aren't watching but listening, you're sort of making it.
- [18:48]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [18:49]
James Reed
Yes.
- [18:49]
Rob Moore
And you know, there's the simple saying, it makes you or breaks you. So everyone listening, including us, have had trauma and hardship. Does it break you or do you tap into it and go, never again? And I'm still running away from some of my pains, thankfully, them helping me towards success and wealth. So that's one way of staying hungry. The other one is having a really big mission. The bigger the mission, the smaller the problems and challenges. And you know, if you can focus on something much bigger than you, you're always moving towards something. Imagine playing Snakes and ladders and getting to the square 100. And then it's like, oh, actually it's a 200 square game, actually it's a 400 square game. You know, people who play computer games, they don't get upset when they complete the level, they get excited about the next level. So you always need like a next level. In fact, people who play computer games probably get a bit, oh, I finished the game. What now? So you want to see business in life like Snakes and Ladders, but it never ends or a Computer game where once you complete the game, there's actually another game that unfolds.
- [19:57]
James Reed
But you said, and I just want to clarify my understanding, the bigger the mission, the smaller the problem. And so what you're saying, I believe, is if you've got a huge, big goal or you're trying to do something very substantial that really changes things, you know, a problem like maybe running out of money doesn't seem quite so sort of.
- [20:15]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [20:16]
James Reed
Desperate. Is that right?
- [20:17]
Rob Moore
That's exactly, exactly that. So I'll give you an example that I have. Yesterday my head of marketing resigned. She's actually starting her own business and.
- [20:26]
James Reed
I see maybe you inspired her.
- [20:28]
Rob Moore
Well, I did too. Well, actually, I'd rather that. And actually that makes. Gives me a sense of pride. But, you know, I'm sat here and probably right up there with my md. The most important person in my company is the head of marketing because we're a marketing business, but because I know I've got a global mission because I want to help as many people on this planet get better financial knowledge. I'm not sitting here focusing on that problem because I've got a bigger vision. And it's frustrating because the last head of marketing maybe lasted a similar amount of time and it's one of our most important roles. So if I wanted to, I could get really into the depths of difficulties and depression and frustration and I can start going into blame. But because I have a global mission and vision, I know, I just. That's fine. I've kissed a couple of frogs, as it were. Just need to keep looking. I mean, I went through so many PAs until I found my great pa, my MD. She's been with us 14 years. First MD. Stay with the sentencing. Sometimes you get lucky or you do it well. Other times you kiss a few frogs. It's just the way it is.
- [21:28]
James Reed
No, that's really, that's really interesting to me because these, these then become sort of frustrations. But they're not sort of going to put you off course.
- [21:36]
Rob Moore
No. Well, it's a choice, actually. A frustration can either get you to blame, complain, defend, justify, or a frustration can make you move forward. All emotions are feedback and challenges can be opportunities. Frustrations can make you work more. And like you said, money, you can have no money or feel like you're going broke. That's very frustrating. So. So use that to go and raise some more.
- [22:05]
James Reed
So your book money is sitting here. I mean, the money, the word money's come up quite a lot. And I'm going to ask you A question I was asked some time ago, which I thought was an interesting one, is, which is what is your first memory of money?
- [22:17]
Rob Moore
So I have two main memories of money. They're not actually that young. One is my dad always used to keep his pound notes in his back pocket. So dad reaching into his back pocket. I mean, I sort of still. I mean, I think it's important to keep cash for various reasons. I think a cashless society is bad. I always keep enough money to get myself out of a problem. So it's, you know, might be a 500 quid, a thousand quid, because you never know where you're going to be. Like my train this morning, a fire.
- [22:49]
James Reed
But your phone can go flat.
- [22:51]
Rob Moore
Yeah, you're exactly your phone. Like Starbucks don't take cash, your phone's dead. So. So for that reason I think it's important to keep cash. But it's an homage to my dad. So my dad always put his back pocket and he would, he would reach into his back pocket really slowly and he'd pull out his money really slowly and almost lick his finger. And do you remember the old ten pound notes, how big they were?
- [23:15]
James Reed
Yeah. And I remember the £1 note.
- [23:17]
Rob Moore
Yeah. And he used to get it out and he'd count it out and he'd pay everything cash. I just remembered drooling. Oh, money. So that was one.
- [23:24]
James Reed
Well, you wanted, you wanted some of that.
- [23:26]
Rob Moore
Yeah, Because I looked up to my dad. My dad was a successful entrepreneur and he always had a load of pound notes. So I linked them.
- [23:35]
James Reed
So you get. He had freedom and. Yeah, do what he likes.
- [23:38]
Rob Moore
Back pocket. Yeah, yeah. And then the other memory was my dad would let me empty the pool tables and the fruit machines, the slot machines from age 6 and so we'd pull out these big containers from the leg of the pool table or the slot machine. It was just masses of coins and I'd get good at counting them up really quick and bagging them up and the 10ps back then.
- [24:01]
James Reed
So you were a sort of 6 year old counting machine.
- [24:03]
Rob Moore
Yeah, and I got really quick at doing it and actually got really quick at like with maths, sort of under say 10,000. I'm really quick because I would be counting. Yeah, yeah. So they're my two first memories of money.
- [24:17]
James Reed
Have you been asked that before?
- [24:18]
Rob Moore
No, I haven't.
- [24:19]
James Reed
That's an interesting question.
- [24:20]
Rob Moore
It is, yeah.
- [24:22]
James Reed
Your answer was very interesting and actually.
- [24:25]
Rob Moore
Lights me with enjoyment.
- [24:27]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [24:28]
Rob Moore
So. So maybe that's a thing because I know a lot of people have got really bad Memories around money, you know, maybe being broke, growing up or the parents having bad associations with money. So I'm glad mine are good.
- [24:38]
James Reed
Yeah. So you wrote about raising money and how to go about that. I mean, you gave a very pithy summary of your property advice. What advice do you give people on raising money?
- [24:52]
Rob Moore
Okay, so what money is, and it's actually an update from my book Money. There's more economic definitions in my book Money, but if I could summarize, a 20 year research project, meeting hundreds of millionaires, becoming one before my 31st birthday. Money is a store of time, value and energy. That's what money is, time, value and energy. So if I could quickly explain, if you work eight hours a day, 40 hours a week, you're exchanging your time for the money. So the money is storing your time. So the time you spent yesterday is stored in money, so you can use the money tomorrow. Okay, so that's the time store. But you might earn. Well, you can probably earn £10,000 an hour with your time. I might earn £20 an hour. So it's not just time because someone could earn minimum wage and someone could earn, I mean, these footballers are earning thousands a minute. So the value is the more valuable you are to society, the more that is stored in the money you receive. And then the energy part is grain used to be one of our uses for money, salt grain. They were money stores. It's in the history section. But the reason grain was a great store of essentially it was a currency, was because it could store energy. Well, so you could have grain from last year's harvest stored in a granary. So granaries were essentially early banks because the granary would store the grain. Now, if the grain went out of date in a day, it's a terrible store of energy. But it would store food energy for a year or years. And now money is that same store of your energy. All the life force energy you've put into business and entrepreneurship over many decades is stored in all the money you've made for yourself and all the money you've helped, you know, your, your staff and your clients make. So money is a store, a very good store of time, value and energy. So if you want to raise more money, you need to put more time in, increase your own value and raise your energy on a simple level.
- [27:18]
James Reed
I've never heard money described in that way. So thank you. I got to spend a lot of time thinking about that. Not an immediately sort of.
- [27:25]
Rob Moore
Well, no, because there's thousands of years of history.
- [27:27]
James Reed
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [27:28]
Rob Moore
Imagine Someone's pitching.
- [27:29]
James Reed
Interesting summary.
- [27:30]
Rob Moore
Someone pitches you and they've got a valuable idea and they've got really good high energy. You're probably more likely to give them the money they pitch you. There's nothing in the deck, there's no value and they've got really low energy. Yeah. So, and these. The good thing about this is you don't need to be an expert to star. And if you look at Dragon's Den, a lot of them are startups, not all of them have been going for years. So people think, oh, you know, you need experience, you need a CV with decades of knowledge. No, you don't. Time, value, energy.
- [28:03]
James Reed
So you talked about the 21 or maybe 23 billionaires that you had spoken to. Did they all really present at a high level in those three measures or were they more mixed?
- [28:17]
Rob Moore
They weren't pitching me for money and I wasn't pitching them for money. If I look at their life story, they've obviously got very good at creating value. A lot of people are a bit upset that they're not earning enough or their prices aren't high enough, and a lot of people are looking for the government or their employer or someone outside of themselves to pay them more or to give them reliefs or reduce taxes, which is not going to happen. The simple way to make more money, whether you're employed or not, is to create more value. Now, value is a perception. So, for example, I think gambling is quite bad for society and I would never support it and I would never invest in a gambling firm or start a gambling firm. But there are people who become big, become billionaires out of gambling, and I'm not judging that because there's hundreds of millions of people who want to gamble. So it clearly has some value to society, otherwise it wouldn't be in society.
- [29:24]
James Reed
Or a section of society.
- [29:25]
Rob Moore
Exact. Exactly. Yeah. And of course, over time we figure out actually maybe it's not good for humanity because a small amount of gambling is probably light relief from stress. But then it gets worse.
- [29:35]
James Reed
And that's true of other things can get worse over time, I suppose.
- [29:39]
Rob Moore
Yeah. Or a small amount is good and a large amount is bad. So be careful not to prejudge what value is. Just look at what society needs and if you can give it and show it, you're going to get paid well. So right now, AI is obviously huge right now, as you said, we talked about this earlier, recruitment, I mean, I mean, desperate need of really good quality, talented staff, both locally and globally. And there are many other needs that people Have. So a really good entrepreneur finds a problem or a need and then fixes it, creates a solution, and then packages it in a way that other people perceive as valuable. If you increase that value, you increase the money that comes to you.
- [30:26]
James Reed
You talked about your team. Is that recruitment was a.
- [30:30]
Rob Moore
A huge issue. Big issue, yeah.
- [30:33]
James Reed
You've built a business out of over 100 people. What do you look for in those people? You know, if you're. And I'm asking you this question particularly with sort of people who are starting out in mind or people who are building a business, you know, from the ground up.
- [30:47]
Rob Moore
Right. So I'm doing a lot more content on LinkedIn and my. I'm starting to get some good traction there. And I read a lot of posts on LinkedIn about recruitment and staffing and most of it's waffly nonsense and I'm gonna go straight in on that. So a lot of people say that you should hire on attitude because skills can be taught. I don't want a happy coder, I don't want a positive tech guy. I want someone who's really bloody good at the job. So contextually, if I've got a very technically specific job, I want a very technically good person. And if they smell and if they're obnoxious, I'll buy them a fridge. I'll put loads of Red Bull in it. I'll put them in a dark corner. I'll give them a really powerful computer and a massive screen and they will get all excited and crack on.
- [31:49]
James Reed
Do you watch Slow Horses? I'm thinking of that guy.
- [31:53]
Rob Moore
I know exactly who you think it off. He's got his sick screens.
- [31:57]
James Reed
Yeah, he fits the bill.
- [31:58]
Rob Moore
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But he's obviously great his job, but he's also got his own quirk. Yeah, you could say I was exactly thinking. I was thinking the same guy. Yeah. So if he's technically specific that I need, like if I want someone to do AI, I don't want them to be a happy person. I don't want to be unhappy. No. Well, it depends if they're unhappy. And that's why they will never stop in their job. That could be a good motivator. So you've got technical, I want technical. If you've got fairly low technical. So admin or easy to learn, that's where attitude is really important. So I want to. And by the way, attitude, attitude has to be defined. So all these people on LinkedIn saying you hire an attitude because skills can be learned. Well, like I've got People who are people pleasers but they don't get their own work done because they're trying to please everybody else or they, they say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But they're actually not very good at critical thinking. So even attitude has to be defined. So when it comes to low technical I probably want open mindedness. I mean Ray Dalio, the billionaire, says he thinks that's one of the highest traits of successful people. Open mindedness is prepared to and has a desire to solve problems. You probably do want a glass half full, not a glass half empty. Although glass half empty coders are quite good because they're always looking for problems, not solutions. So this is why LinkedIn gets it wrong, because it's contextual and of course I'm teaching you to suck eggs.
- [33:41]
James Reed
This is your, I'm not interested you got to three anymore.
- [33:43]
Rob Moore
Yeah. So then the third one is management. Yeah. So we've got, we've got attitude, we've got technical skill and then management. And when it comes to management, especially senior management, I'll tell you two mistakes I made, James, and I've been doing this two decades. Two mistakes I made with my head of marketing was I looked at their marketing skills, but I needed a really good manager. So if, if I'm looking for a head of marketing, I'm where I am now. Bearing in mind marketing, single most important function in my business, I could have 25 staff in marketing if I could scale it. I want management experience first, technical ability way later. Because a good manager can hire technical skills. My marketing manager doesn't need to know SEO, doesn't need to know pay per click, doesn't need to know social media, doesn't need to know organic and I used to think they did. Now if you've got two people in your marketing team, they do, but we've got currently 15 and I want 25. They need to be a really good manager. So they're the three areas I look for and when it comes to management, I'm sorry, I need to see experience. All these people on LinkedIn saying oh well job hopping is good, you know, because you get more experience. No, if you've job hopped every six months, you're in a pogo stick beyond my role as well.
- [35:04]
James Reed
You're going to do it again? In likelihood. Yeah.
- [35:06]
Rob Moore
So I actually, and, and even though I'm an entrepreneur, I quite like pulling in people from corporate. If they've got, you know, two or three five year plus jobs and they've managed a lot of people what would you say to that? As the man I think you.
- [35:23]
James Reed
Well, I've, I. I wrote a book some time ago called Put your mindset to work, which was looking at skill set and mindset, and employers say 97% of them say they'd recruit mindset, hell of skill set. But there's a caveat to that. You want both. But if you can find those people, you're really onto something. The aspect I would really look for that's in that mix on this attitude or mindset thing, is integrity, honesty. I've had problems in the past with dishonest people, untrustworthy people. You probably have too. Everyone in business has. And when my finance director says, oh, we haven't found any frauds lately, it's really good, everything's fine. I'm saying there'll be someone up to something somewhere.
- [36:05]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [36:06]
James Reed
So, you know, I think integrity is hugely important. And I mean, you. You should take out references.
- [36:12]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [36:12]
James Reed
You should. You should do other checks. We have a screening business employs over 100 people. We've done nothing else but checking people out, checking facts on those for our clients.
- [36:22]
Rob Moore
Ah, that's fascinating.
- [36:24]
James Reed
So, you know, and if you. You would talk about LinkedIn, you know, if you look at people's CVs and you compare with their profiles on LinkedIn, they're not necessarily the same.
- [36:32]
Rob Moore
No.
- [36:33]
James Reed
And, you know, they need to be sometimes checked. 40% have errors in.
- [36:38]
Rob Moore
That's very nice way of saying they lie well.
- [36:41]
James Reed
Well, they might be deliberate errors or they might be.
- [36:44]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [36:44]
James Reed
Just errors.
- [36:45]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [36:46]
James Reed
But 40% have errors, so, yeah, it's worth checking. So you have to do. I think you're asking me this question, which you did. You have to. You have to do as much as you can to find out about someone before you hire them. And a great question for a referee, because now a lot of people won't send you written references. And so it's just one question, and as long as they answer it honestly, it's a great question. Is, would you rehire this person? I would. I would rehire lots of people because I think they're good people.
- [37:15]
Rob Moore
Oh, but they left. Yeah, yeah, I get you. Yeah.
- [37:18]
James Reed
So would you rehire this person? So that's my end. So, Rob, back to you.
- [37:23]
Rob Moore
I'm listening.
- [37:23]
James Reed
I'm. I mentioned just now that you were. And become more active on LinkedIn. And that goes to. The next subject I want to ask you about, is for entrepreneurs these days, and you're a very good example of it, it is important for many to build a personal profile as well as build a business because of the way digital works and you've been doing that. Tell me a bit about what you're aiming to achieve with doing more on LinkedIn and why that's important.
- [37:51]
Rob Moore
Yeah. So if I'm honest, I probably saw that LinkedIn was getting left behind because I have what, almost half a million followers on Facebook. When you add all my non LinkedIn, it's about 3 million. And of course they came after LinkedIn and they all seem to grow, but what you found is they sort of boomed and bust, you know, TikTok Instagram. But LinkedIn was that one that was steady and was there and. And so I probably took my eye off it just because I thought it was a bit of. It's just fallen behind everyone. But a few years ago it had a big update change and it sort of became more like Facebook and it had a feed and it changed and then it started to become more social and I was like, oh, okay. And I started to use it more back then just as content creation and I would often go very viral on it. And then there's TikTok. I'm of course my podcast blew up and YouTube and everything else and you can't do everything. But I think the reason I do a post every day now and I get myself about two weeks ahead. So I have various vas outsources who help me and for the years I've kind of not really been involved in LinkedIn. I've still posted, but I've not posted as much. And I've maybe had them write content mostly for me, but now I write it all myself. I don't use AI because I.
- [39:13]
James Reed
There is a feature on. In LinkedIn when you compress writing AI.
- [39:17]
Rob Moore
There is, I think it's terrible, not for the future, but for the present because, like, one thing we're really missing in business and society is connections with other humans. You know, we met face to face. Had we not met face to face initially, got to know each other, you may not have invited me back here. And a lot of people are, especially in people in their late teens and twenties haven't really done much that, you know, they date online and all of that. It's dangerous. Like I'd never invest in someone until I've met them and looked in their eyes. And you talked about honesty, integrity. Well, often it's looking into someone's eyes. So AI is great for the future, but the way I use AI. So I had an editor for money and an editor for life. Leverage and an editor for opportunity and you know, they would be paid like £6,000. Now what I do is I don't need those because I use AI for that, but the content and the message, you know, and the tone, because the tone gets lost in AI. So just as a, as a side note, I think it's really important to maintain your integrity of voice, individualism and tone and use AI for the rest. And also I desire to be quite unique because I think there's a lot of the content is just homogenized and homogenized content is not going to set you apart from anyone else. So yeah, I just recently again started putting my own unique, not repurposed by my team content on there and started, you know, a lot of my posts get millions of views now and one is probably the channel that's full of the most active business people. So if you want a business type audience, which I do and you know, and not a just consumer or entertainer based audience, If I was an entertainer, LinkedIn's probably going to be useless for me. If I'm an entrepreneur, a business owner, it's going to be good for me. So that's the, so there, there's a buying audience, there's a mature audience because if I want to attract people for property, I'm probably going to need 40 plus age because they're going to need enough money for that. And, and yeah, it's his algorithm seems to be, it seems to allow you to go viral based on your content, not based on your following. So that's good news to anyone starting out. And there's not many social channels where the written form is the best form. Everywhere else is lives or video. But on LinkedIn the best type of content is written for us old school people and I still like to write. And for some people, they don't want their face all over social media. So for those reasons, LinkedIn's good. Oh, and of course for recruitment, it's.
- [42:12]
James Reed
Very good for that. So you're saying you don't have to have a big following to go viral on LinkedIn, which is obviously useful for people who are starting.
- [42:21]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [42:22]
James Reed
What, what sort of, what sort of posts have you put on that have gone viral? What, what sort of posts, you know.
- [42:30]
Rob Moore
Hit the mark when you use LinkedIn. It'll give you the views. Yeah, they call it impression, some call it play, some call it views, some call it impressions. It's the same thing is basically how many people saw it. So the content that does the best for me is the content about money. Especially about taxes, labor coming in and my disruptive thoughts on that, the central bank, digital currencies and the future of money and cashless society and all of that kind of content does well. And then my views on recruitment, leadership and employment. Now I go very much against the grain on LinkedIn because most of the content that goes viral on LinkedIn is all repurposed about toxic work culture. And it's very left leaning. I wouldn't call myself right leaning, but someone would call me right leaning if they were to look at my content. So I talk a bit on, on the right side of employment, which is more from the employer than the employee.
- [43:34]
James Reed
So you've got a, a lot in play at the moment with the workers rights bill coming out, the new budget prospect.
- [43:40]
Rob Moore
Oh, yes, I'm going to go very viral and get lots haters. Absolutely.
- [43:46]
James Reed
But you're trying to do that.
- [43:48]
Rob Moore
Well, I'm trying to. I'm trying to do that by also believing it. Like there seems to be this prevailing narrative that people should work less, but we, most people worked less through lockdown and you don't turn an economy around by working less. And here's the thing, we're, we own companies and I don't want to work my staff into the ground, but I don't want someone to come in who wants to be paid for five days but work for three. And I don't want someone to come in who knows how to get a letter from their doctor to sign themselves off sick for three months. So I'm in some ways to the left side, quite unpopular on LinkedIn. Because what I'm basically saying is if you want to be happier and more successful, work harder or work better. Because we all get that sense of satisfaction when we've done a good day's work. Not saying you have to do 15 hours, don't want to create a toxic work culture. But actually I know that if I have just a bit too much to do in the day and I achieve a fair amount of it, I feel much better than working at 60% and trying to get away with it. Because here's the biggest, I would say the worst place to get in life is doing just enough not to get fired. That's a bad place to be. Or earning just enough not to quit. They're the traps. So I teach people who are employed how to be a brilliant employee, but a lot of people get triggered because I think there's quite a lot of entitlement in society about the rights that we should all have. How is this Economy going to grow by giving more money to people who are doing less. I don't see it.
- [45:36]
James Reed
So that's your challenge and you get kickback or pushback on that. But when I'm listening to that, what I hear is how much you enjoy.
- [45:44]
Rob Moore
Your work and care about people.
- [45:47]
James Reed
And I feel the same way. I love working. So I sort of don't really understand this. I sort of try to do less and less. And actually when I see that, because we work a lot with people who've been unemployed, usually not for their own fault, but I see what the consequences of that have been on those people. And you know, the isolation that comes from not working and the anxiety, the self esteem and depression that can arise.
- [46:11]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [46:11]
James Reed
And actually we, we kind of need to do a better job at selling work as a great thing.
- [46:16]
Rob Moore
Yes.
- [46:17]
James Reed
You said right at the beginning of our conversation how you enjoyed working as a kid more than going to school. I've had other people on this podcast say exactly the same thing and that, you know, that they really loved it when they got into the work world because suddenly they could do all sorts of things they couldn't do before. And work needs a bit of, bit of marketing support in a way. I feel at the moment.
- [46:38]
Rob Moore
I completely agree with you. You're right. And this is, you know, obviously with labor and what they stand for. I'm scared we're going to lose this. And also selling work. Yes, but it's hard to sell work when the taxes are going up and up and up and inflation's wiping out your money and the cost of living crisis. Which is why I love selling entrepreneurship.
- [46:58]
James Reed
Yeah, well, because you, you're giving people a reason, an incentive. You know, entrepreneurship is fun and, and you make some money, hopefully and you have a good life and you can do you have more freedom, those sort of things.
- [47:10]
Rob Moore
And the rewards are higher, which the work is harder.
- [47:13]
James Reed
You have to work hard.
- [47:14]
Rob Moore
You do that.
- [47:15]
James Reed
Energy, value and time.
- [47:17]
Rob Moore
Yes, especially time. You know, a lot of people who want to start their business and work four hours a day. Well, okay, maybe at the latter end of the career you can do that, but at the start.
- [47:28]
James Reed
Well, that book, the four Hour Work Week is a perennial bestseller, isn't it?
- [47:32]
Rob Moore
It is. There is some good content in there. It's. Yeah. About outsourcing and leverage. I wrote a version called Life Leverage. But yeah, I mean, a four hour work week, you have to earn a four hour work week. Probably doing a lot of 14 hour work days to get there first. There's a saying I love it was Richard Templar. You have to work hard enough not to have to work hard.
- [47:56]
James Reed
Okay, Rob, you've also set up a foundation. And the foundation, as I understand it, but I'd like you to tell us a little bit about it, is to help young people get started.
- [48:08]
Rob Moore
Young and underprivileged.
- [48:09]
James Reed
Yeah, yeah, underprivileged. So tell me how that works. What are you doing?
- [48:13]
Rob Moore
So it's called the Rob Moore foundation and I launched it in, I think, 2017 when I wrote the book Money. So that Book Money was one of the best selling books in the world on the subject of money. And I was building up quite a good following in 2017 and also I was building up a bit of a following of haters because, you know, you don't get the praise without the criticism. And so I thought I'm going to silence the critics who are going to say, oh well, Rob Moore's only written a book on money so he can make money. So all the profits of the book money go to my foundation and a percentage of all the ticket sales we do for some of our, some of our events, because we've got different types of events go to the foundation. And the foundation is to help young and underprivileged people start meaningful businesses that change the world. So through the content I do and the training businesses I have and the communities I've built, people who are either in underprivileged positions, hardships, developing countries or young and have got some hustle around the world.
- [49:17]
James Reed
This isn't.
- [49:17]
Rob Moore
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [49:18]
James Reed
So how many businesses have you helped to start?
- [49:20]
Rob Moore
Oh, hundreds. I, I, I couldn't say exactly because sometimes they'll get 500 quid, sometimes they'll get 15 grand. It depends on the scale of the business and the need.
- [49:31]
James Reed
And you go and visit them.
- [49:32]
Rob Moore
It depends. So I'm right at the moment, I'm giving away 15 grand and you know, I kind of like to do a bit like the Dragon's Den, but I don't take any equity, I just give them the money. So, for example, quite a few times a year I give away 15,000, sometimes more, sometimes less. But that, that number's exciting.
- [49:52]
James Reed
That's enough to get someone.
- [49:54]
Rob Moore
Oh yeah, yeah, it's exciting enough. And, and also I'm not trying to be Dragon's Den, but what we do is we get them to fill in a little business plan and then they come and pitch me and my entrepreneur friends. So I'm not just giving it away, but they're not having to give away A third of their company at the start, which if you're successful in 10 years, can be a very expensive way to give away some money. Yeah, yeah. So I kind of, I guess it's half between something like Angels Den or Dragon's Den and halfway between a charity tried to merge the two. So entrepreneurial people with a bit of hustle, but I'm not looking for anything back.
- [50:34]
James Reed
Any success stories you're particularly proud of?
- [50:37]
Rob Moore
Well, I mean, the ones that always sit with me are the more meaningful ones. So. Yeah, I mean, for example, there's a lady who's. She's an alpaca vet and she did 130,000, 138,000 pounds extra sales in one year through what she learned through our community and the support we gave her. And when you're a vet to alpacas, that's not bad because that's a very, very.
- [51:06]
James Reed
What is this in the uk?
- [51:07]
Rob Moore
Yeah, yeah. I mean most people did go Google what an alpaca is. Most people don't know. Well, this is it. I mean, she's an alpaca vet. I mean there are some in the UK and must be zoos and things, farms. So, you know, stories like that, which are a bit left field and quirky, but. And couple of stories that come to mind is one lady, her husband murdered her 2 year old son and she's been in our community, she'd been in our community for quite a while and we didn't know anything about this and she didn't say anything to us. She was just lovely, you know, proactive, trying to start a business and she was trying to start a business where essentially a better business for sort of tracking where your children are because she'd been so inspired through pain. So we funded that, we gifted that and that's launched and that obviously feels amazing. And then there was another lady who, her husband and uncle died in the same. Sorry. Her husband and brother died in the same week and so her son was left with no father and no uncle and then she had to raise her young child alone. And so she wanted to write a series of children's books where she could write in dealing with the trauma of not having a father figure or an uncle and losing people close to you. So we funded all of that and she's written these series of children's books, you know, and, and put these meaningful messages within them. So yeah, by the way, you don't have to have trauma to raise money from my foundation. And if you've just, if you're just A bit of a hustler, or you're young, or you've just had a challenge, you can apply for money. And often I'll just give away money here and there to meaningful causes. But, yeah, they're there. Sort of three stories that immediately come to mind.
- [53:10]
James Reed
So, to wrap up, Rob, what message have you got for a young prospective entrepreneur?
- [53:18]
Rob Moore
Well, at the end of at least 10,000 pieces of content I've done, I say, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. So I would say to anyone, young or old, I think it was a stoic philosopher that said, where the fear is there, the task is. So there are things in your life you've wanted, but you're scared to take the leap. You're scared to not have the salary anymore or take the pay cut or whatever your friends and family might say, or scared of it failing. But if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. Because if you don't face the fear, what you have to face 10, 20 and 30 years later is the regret.
- [54:11]
James Reed
So you mentioned your business partner, I believe is called Mark, and that he brought money to the party.
- [54:18]
Rob Moore
And experience.
- [54:19]
James Reed
And experience.
- [54:20]
Rob Moore
Knowledge.
- [54:21]
James Reed
Yeah. A lot of people embarking in business, in business or as entrepreneurs, often looking for a partner. They're looking for someone who. Who complements them in different ways or brings different skills. You know, what's the right way to go? How would you say you should pitch that you don't want to be totally different, perhaps? Or do you?
- [54:43]
Rob Moore
The only two different is exactly the same. Because if two of you are exactly the same, one of you isn't needed. If you're both doing the same tasks, you're just going to get in each other's way. You're both going to think you can do it better and you're going to clash. And so my business partner and I figured this out early where there was duplication and we removed it. So I'll come to that in a moment. It's not imperative to have a business partner like a joint CEO or a 5050 shareholder. That's not imperative. But it is imperative to have a team. You cannot be successful on your own. There is no I in team. It's a cliche, but it's true. And Arnold Schwarzenegger says you cannot be successful on your own. You know, he needed coaches, dietitians, PTs. Obviously, he's a mega entrepreneur now. And whether it is your staff, your senior management, your business advisors, your board or your partner, you cannot do business alone. In fact, it will be one of the Most lonely endeavors if you try and do business on your own. So you absolutely, I believe, need to seek these people out. Now, I was fortunate. I found a business partner at my first networking event. Now, if I were to give you the ideal model, you want a similar vision and an opposing skill set. So our similar vision is we both wanted to be entrepreneurs forever and we love business and entrepreneurship and investing and there's nothing we'd rather do than. And we figured that out in month two and we're nearly 20 years down the line and we don't either of us want to do anything else. That's why we're still in business. If I'd have said, oh yeah, I want a, a three year get rich quick. And he just said, well, I'm like Warren Buffett and I wanted a 30 year compounding journey. We were never going to last. So a similar vision, but that should be pretty much the only thing that's similar. And then the ideal partnership is opposing skill sets, but acknowledging each other's opposing skill sets. So the problem often is you're looking for someone similar and then the similarities you get in each other's way, but someone who's really different, they'll challenge you. I love sales and marketing and vision and strategy. He loves cost saving and analysis and that there can be a real clash there. We look at a P and L and Mark just wants to strip the costs out and the first cost he goes to is the biggest one. And what's the biggest one? Marketing. And I'm like, if we cut marketing, we cut growth. So we're always arguing about marketing costs. I want to spend more, he wants to spend less. Now neither of our vantage points are wrong, but we're coming through our own filters. But that's good because they're both being ticked off. So you need opposing skill sets, but appreciation for each other's skill sets. And basically you need to learn to respect and learn from and listen to the person with opposing skill sets. But importantly, never let it dilute your own. So at times I've allowed my business partner to kind of tone my strategy and vision and energy and passion and disruption down because we're trying to cut costs, especially through lockdown. I mean, the cost cutting exercise was the most important one. But if you slash all the marketing, you've got no growth. And at times I've allowed that to stifle me and. But that's my responsibility, not his. So similar vision, similar passion, similar longevity, completely opposing skill set. Honor each other and respect each other's skill sets, but don't dilute and shoot down each other's skill sets. And sometimes you're in a board meeting and you're at a standoff, you've got a Mexican standoff. And if there's a 50, 50, you know, maybe there's nothing in your shareholders agreement to deal with.
- [58:39]
James Reed
Well, maybe you need. Maybe you need a third person, but.
- [58:42]
Rob Moore
Then maybe extra person on the board, and you need to have something in your shareholders agreement, which is what happens when there's a lock of wall. Yeah.
- [58:50]
James Reed
I was thinking you have three directors. So I think in our business, if I want to do something, I have two colleagues that I found out. If they are both opposed to what I want to do, then I'll think again.
- [59:01]
Rob Moore
Yeah, you could do that. That could work. We have a couple of unwritten rules, my business partner and I. Whoever's the most passionate about the decision, the other person will probably D rank. And whoever's the most knowledgeable about that decision, the other will probably d rank. So if it's about marketing and my business partners, like, we can't do this. We can't spend the money. As long as I'm more passionate, I'll D rank him because I know more about marketing and we've got that unwritten rule. And I think that's a good unwritten rule because it probably stops a lot of contractual conflict.
- [59:34]
James Reed
Yeah, I suppose there are two things I might add, if I may. Values your show.
- [59:40]
Rob Moore
It's your show.
- [59:41]
James Reed
Shared values as well as vision. I think probably you have or not. Do you have shared values given your business partner?
- [59:50]
Rob Moore
Different values, but there are some sharing of them. Everybody has a unique set of values. So to try and find someone with the same values.
- [59:58]
James Reed
Yeah, but it's possible. A sort of healthy overlap.
- [60:00]
Rob Moore
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [60:01]
James Reed
Would you say?
- [60:03]
Rob Moore
Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean, one of my highest value is growth and progress, and my business partner loves compounding. So there's.
- [60:11]
James Reed
They overlap.
- [60:12]
Rob Moore
Yeah, in different ways. You see, he gets excited about cost saving because then he compounds it over 30 years. I get excited about revenue growth, but he's like, yeah, but after, you know, your gross profit, your fixed costs, your variable costs, the net profit might be 12%, and then your taxation. So we look at those. We look at growth and progress differently. But yeah, and both. We both love money. And, you know, one of my missions is to help people fall in love with money because people think that money is bad or money is evil or, you know, even. Even in the Bible, it says the love of money is the root of kinds of evil. That's actually what it says. People misquote it. And money is a tool. I gave the definition of money. It's a store and exchange.
- [61:00]
James Reed
I sometimes think you can have too much money. My father used to talk about financial obesity and how he wanted to help relieve people of their financial obesity by them being more generous philanthropically.
- [61:11]
Rob Moore
Yeah.
- [61:11]
James Reed
And you see situations where it has a toxic effect on families or next generations and things like that.
- [61:17]
Rob Moore
Yeah, money. Money is the tool and money is the information to use. The. A hammer doesn't work without you. So there is the, the, the, the pound notes of money. Then there's the instrument and the leverage of it.
- [61:30]
James Reed
Is it like alcohol? You know, a little bit nice and everyone feels happy? But no, too much?
- [61:35]
Rob Moore
Not for me.
- [61:35]
James Reed
Too much makes you sick?
- [61:36]
Rob Moore
Not for me.
- [61:37]
James Reed
Not for you?
- [61:38]
Rob Moore
No. I mean, I've not reached an amount that's too much for me. And I've made a lot and I've not reached an amount where anyone has said to me, rob, you're too rich and it's turning you crazy. Maybe I need to reach 100 billion for that to happen. But look at Warren Buffett. It still seems pretty grounded. I think a lot of that is narrative and rhetoric because a human being can be greedy and seek power broke or rich. I think that money just makes you more of who you already are.
- [62:09]
James Reed
Okay, so. So, Rob, just how important is personal brand?
- [62:14]
Rob Moore
Your personal brand is probably the only thing you'll carry with you your entire career. You may sell a company, you may boom and bust. Some clients will come and go. Merchant providers and banks will come and go, products will come and go. But your personal brand is the only thing you'll take with you your whole life. And if you think about someone who's an employee, their personal brand is their CV and their personal brand is LinkedIn. So even someone who's employed your personal brand is still really important because of course, employers look a lot on LinkedIn. So the personal brand is not a brand new phenomenon anymore, but it's a relatively new phenomenon because we needed the Internet first and then social media second before we really understood personal brand. I'd probably say Michael Jackson maybe was the first person that it really seemed understood personal brand. So I've focused on it more in the last eight years since I launched my podcast Disruptors. And I think it's really important. There's different types of personal brand. You could be the person that doesn't want to put your face out there and you're not an extrovert. So write articles on LinkedIn, do an audio podcast like this because you can still be an introvert and have a very powerful personal brand. At the very least it'll help you get jobs and therefore help you get well paid. If you're a little bit more, you've got more to say. I mean, I'm not actually an extrovert. I behave as an extrovert in these situations because it helps. I'm actually not. I just go in and out of both depending. But I can behave as more of an extra if that's the case. Put your message out to the world algorithms now. Favorite content over following. Which means if you create content that hits the mark, you'll grow a big following and you'll go viral. Even if you've got no social media following. And then your next job and next job and next job and your new business in the business after, in the business after, you'll always carry your personal brand with you. I think the big challenge for people is how much time on personal brand versus my company or my employment because your company employment is already quite a full time job probably. But you know, if you look at these modern influencers like you know, Jake Paul, they've just the world, you know, Tommy Fury, they've opened up the world of everything by having a personal brand.
- [64:47]
James Reed
I ask everyone these questions. So my first question is what gets you up on a Monday morning four shot espresso.
- [64:56]
Rob Moore
A desire to help as many people on this planet get better financial knowledge. And because I believe maybe we have one life, the afterlife hasn't been proven to me yet, so I'm going to assume there isn't one. Therefore I've got a lot of work left to do in this life that gets me up every morning.
- [65:13]
James Reed
Thank you. And my other question is, where do you see yourself? This is an interview question from my book up there, one of the fateful 15. Where do you see yourself in five years time?
- [65:23]
Rob Moore
Well, in five years time, not far off to the day I'll be 50. So I see myself in my career as one of the top commentators on the subject of money in the world. I see myself in terms of the impact I'm having is that I'm helping millions more people get better financial knowledge.
- [65:46]
James Reed
So you want to increase your reach?
- [65:49]
Rob Moore
Yeah, and I'll probably need Botox by then as well. I would have thought. I wouldn't worry about that if I were here.
- [65:54]
James Reed
I'm well past 50, relax. Thank you, Rob, for joining me on All About Business. If you'd like to find out more about Rob, check out his podcast, Disruptors, or Follow him on LinkedIn. All links are in the show notes. I'm your host, James Reed, chairman and CEO, CEO of re, a recruitment and philanthropy company. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit the follow button. See you next time.