16. Sir Alec Reed at 91: A British business legend

Summary

James Reed: All About Business – Episode 16: Sir Alec Reed at 91: A British Business Legend

Released on February 24, 2025

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Introduction

In the 16th episode of "James Reed: All About Business," host James Reed engages in a profound and heartfelt conversation with his father, Sir Alec Reed, to celebrate Alec's 91st birthday. As the Chairman and CEO of Reed Group, James provides listeners with an intimate look into the life, achievements, and philosophies of one of Britain's most revered entrepreneurs and philanthropists. The episode delves into Sir Alec's 65-year journey in business, the foundations of his entrepreneurial spirit, his pivotal role in philanthropy, and his enduring legacy.

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Early Entrepreneurial Spirit

James Reed begins the conversation by highlighting Sir Alec's humble beginnings and remarkable achievements despite leaving school at the age of 16 with merely five O-levels.

[00:00] James Reed: "Businessman, philanthropist, a maverick at turning strange ideas into success."

Sir Alec attributes his early success to a combination of innate drive and supportive family influences.

[02:05] Sir Alec Reed: "Obviously, started with the business and what I was doing became obvious. I had the means to do it, I had the income that I could support charitable activities. And I think one brick built on another and seemed to take the direction of education."

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First Ventures: Lead Soldiers and Printing Business

As a child, Sir Alec, alongside his brother, ventured into small-scale businesses. Their first notable endeavor was manufacturing lead soldiers during the post-World War II era when toy shortages were prevalent.

[03:37] James Reed: "You've always liked ideas."

[03:40] Sir Alec Reed: "Lead soldiers. There was a lot of spare lead around from bomb sites..."

They sold these handcrafted toys through their mother's distribution network, demonstrating early business acumen by identifying and filling market gaps.

Subsequently, the brothers founded Reed Brothers Printing, a venture that operated without owning printing equipment. Instead, they acted as intermediaries, passing orders to established printers—an innovative approach that underscored their resourcefulness.

[04:45] James Reed: "So it didn't deter you, having no printing equipment, you could still be Reed Brothers Printing."

[04:56] Sir Alec Reed: "Yeah, because we knew where to get it."

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Motivation to Branch Out: The Urge for Self-Employment

Despite a stable position at Gillette, Sir Alec harbored a strong desire for self-employment, driven by the need for creative freedom and the frustration of having his ideas sidelined.

[06:26] Sir Alec Reed: "I had a tremendous urge to be self-employed. It's almost a sickness that I desperately wanted to be self-employed."

This internal drive led him to establish his own employment agency, Reed, capitalizing on the burgeoning demand for skilled labor during the construction of London Airport.

[07:07] Sir Alec Reed: "Charging more than anybody else."
[08:00] Sir Alec Reed: "We were at the heart of the labor boom with the Great West Road..."

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Challenges in Financing and Going Public

As Reed grew, Sir Alec faced significant challenges with traditional banking institutions, notably Midland Bank, which withdrew support despite the company's profitability.

[14:24] James Reed: "Banks that aren't necessarily all they're cut out to be..."

To overcome financial constraints, Sir Alec initially approached 3i for investment, which was declined. This setback ultimately compelled Reed to go public, a decision he later considered his biggest mistake but acknowledged as a necessary step that facilitated the establishment of the Reed Business School.

[15:07] Sir Alec Reed: "I had to float it. South Leisure was growing initially."

[15:36] Sir Alec Reed: "I used to say that was my biggest mistake, going public."

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Perspectives on Family Business

The conversation segues into the intricacies of family-run businesses. Sir Alec expresses mixed feelings about the model, highlighting potential conflicts and the challenges of ensuring fairness among family members.

[17:08] Sir Alec Reed: "I like the sound of family business, but I wonder who prospers from it, who benefits from it?"

He emphasizes the importance of talent and passion among family members to sustain the business across generations, reflecting on his own experience where only one of his three children was keen on the business.

[21:35] Sir Alec Reed: "I had three children, one interested in business and good at business..."

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Transition to Philanthropy

After selling his business, especially during a personal health crisis, Sir Alec redirected his focus towards philanthropy. His philanthropic journey began with the establishment of the Reid Foundation and later expanded to various other charitable endeavors.

[27:04] Sir Alec Reed: "And that gave me 5 million tax free with inheritance tax hanging over me."

[23:06] Sir Alec Reed: "After the first thing was drug addicts in Soho..."

He founded several charities addressing diverse issues, including Womankind and Ethiopia, showcasing his commitment to social innovation and addressing unmet needs.

[29:06] Sir Alec Reed: "Why isn't there a woman's charity... So there ought to be a charity based on women."

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The Big Give Initiative

One of Sir Alec's most impactful ideas is The Big Give, a charity match-funding platform that has successfully raised over £300 million for thousands of charities globally.

[31:33] Sir Alec Reed: "Yeah, that's an idea of fundraising. That started with me starting a website to attract big donors. That was the first solution and that failed."

The concept evolved when Sir Alec leveraged his own funds to initiate a matching grant, which garnered immediate and substantial support.

[31:42] James Reed: "It's currently raised over 300 million for thousands of charities..."

This initiative highlights Sir Alec's strategic thinking in philanthropy, focusing on harnessing the potential of major donors to amplify charitable impact.

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Ideas and Creativity

Sir Alec champions the generation and implementation of ideas as fundamental to business and societal progress. He advocates for the practice of generating an idea a day, viewing ideas as a form of currency that drives innovation.

[37:48] Sir Alec Reed: "I promote the idea of an idea a day."

He encourages critical observation and continuous ideation, suggesting that even seemingly trivial ideas can lead to significant breakthroughs.

[38:05] Sir Alec Reed: "Ideas come in all shapes and sizes and some of them are insignificant, but they're still worth having..."

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Perspective on Failure

A recurring theme in the discussion is Sir Alec's constructive view of failure. Rather than seeing failure as a setback, he interprets it as a directional signpost guiding entrepreneurs toward more viable paths.

[35:07] Sir Alec Reed: "Failure as an indication. Detractive."

This mindset fosters resilience and adaptability, essential traits for sustained success in business endeavors.

[35:28] Sir Alec Reed: "Yeah, quite."

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Final Advice and Closing Remarks

In concluding the episode, Sir Alec imparts valuable lessons on entrepreneurship, the importance of ideas, and the nuanced dynamics of family businesses. He emphasizes the significance of innovation, adaptability, and the ethical considerations inherent in business and philanthropy.

[40:03] Sir Alec Reed: "We didn't raise any more money. We didn't need to, but we just had to abide by their regulations."

James Reed expresses gratitude for his father's insights, underscoring the enduring influence Sir Alec has had on both his personal life and professional trajectory.

[43:05] Sir Alec Reed: "They ought to be more important."

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Notable Quotes

• James Reed [00:00]: "Businessman, philanthropist, a maverick at turning strange ideas into success."

• Sir Alec Reed [02:05]: "I had a tremendous urge to be self-employed. It's almost a sickness that I desperately wanted to be self-employed."

• Sir Alec Reed [31:42]: "They're untackled, really, they're neglected."

• Sir Alec Reed [35:07]: "Failure as an indication. Detractive."

• James Reed [38:05]: "Ideas come in all shapes and sizes and some of them are insignificant, but they're still worth having."

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Conclusion

This episode serves as a remarkable tribute to Sir Alec Reed's enduring legacy in both business and philanthropy. Through his candid reflections, listeners gain invaluable insights into the principles that have guided his successful ventures and charitable initiatives. Sir Alec's journey underscores the importance of resilience, innovation, and a steadfast commitment to societal betterment, offering actionable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and philanthropists alike.

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Thank you for tuning into "James Reed: All About Business." Stay tuned for more inspiring conversations with industry leaders and visionaries.

Transcript

[James Reed]

Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests of bootstrapped companies, masterminded investment models, built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture. Businessman, philanthropist, a maverick at turning strange ideas into success. And the reason I'm sitting here today, my father, Sir Alec Reid. Years before I became chairman, Sir Alec started Reid from a carpet shop in hounslow back in 1960. 25 years later, he founded the Reid foundation and has been described by the Times as the man that revolutionized philanthropy. In this special episode to mark his 91st birthday, Sir Alec Reid shares his insights from 65 years in business, the lessons he's learned along the way, and the secret to being one of Britain's greatest entrepreneurs. Well, today on All About Business, we're at the Reid Business School. I couldn't be more delighted to welcome our guest today who is a wonderful man and also my dear dad, Sir Alec Reid. I'm very excited about this conversation because I've had the opportunity to speak to to dad over many, many years about his ideas, his views on business entrepreneurship. And I've learned so much from this man that I'm sure you're going to enjoy listening to him too. I mean, he is a remarkable entrepreneur, he's a remarkable philanthropist, and he's a remarkable human being. So gonna begin, dad, by asking you a simple question. You left school at 16 with 5o levels. I think in 1950, you went on to become the professor of three universities, to get three doctorates, to found a business school, to found several companies and multiple, I think, seven charities. How did that happen?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Obviously, started with the business and I became what I was doing became obvious. I had the means to do it, I had the income that I could support charitable activities. And I think one brick built on another and seemed to take the direction of education.

[James Reed]

So let's go back to the. The beginning. You're sort of starting out in life as an entrepreneur. You left school at 16. You didn't have the best exam results. I think your parents had ambitions for you and you had ambitions that involved getting qualifications that you didn't get. But you had always dabbled in sort of business and your micro businesses. As a child even. I mean, what were you doing when you were.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, I think when I left school, a very important move was my mother taking me to the night Score. And signing me on four nights a week. So she's going to make up for the 50 levels. And I studied to be an accountant. It was not quite the right exam. We didn't know that. But I finished it and I became a qualified charter secretary. I was able to build on that and get a better job than being an office boy. And I joined Gillette, which was a very enterprising company, American. And I found that Gillette, they rewarded ideas. And so I soon became attracted by ideas because they. You'd often get 10 quid for an idea and that would be your weekly wage. So I supplemented my wages with ideas.

[James Reed]

So they literally rewarded ideas. They paid for them.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And this got your attention?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

You've always liked ideas. I know that.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, that's why.

[James Reed]

So you learned very early on. The ideas paid off.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So what were your early ideas for businesses?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Fortunately, it's lead soldiers, which I made with my brother.

[James Reed]

Lead soldiers.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Lead soldiers. There was a lot of spare lead around from bomb sites and he acquired a mold. A lead mold. Coming up to Christmas, we'd heat the lead on my mother's stove and pour it into this mold.

[James Reed]

So I'm probably not saying people should try at home these days, but this was in the war, I suppose, or after the Second World War.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, to the end of the war.

[James Reed]

Yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And you couldn't get toys, so parents didn't have much option about buying their children toys.

[James Reed]

So you saw a gap in the market.

[Sir Alec Reid]

A gap in the market?

[James Reed]

Well, you were like 10 years old or something and your brother was 14, wasn't he, or something.

[Sir Alec Reid]

We use the milk lady to sell them for us. So she's delivering milk and our lead soldiers.

[James Reed]

So you did production and you had a distribution network.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, that was. That was the earliest entrepreneurial effort, I think. After that we started a printing business and it was a third party. John, my brother, was at printing college and he went on visits to printers and he found a printer that only prints for other printers.

[James Reed]

Right.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And so we started Reed Brothers Printing. We didn't have any printing equipment at all and we just passed the order onto these printers. And so I think that was our second undertaking.

[James Reed]

So it didn't deter you, having no printing equipment, you could still be Reed Brothers Printing.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

You get.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, because we knew where to get it.

[James Reed]

Yeah. You're like an agent, in a sense. Yeah, yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And the printers wouldn't deal with direct customers. Direct anyway, so you had to be so cool printed work with them.

[James Reed]

When you were at Gillette, your mother sort of obviously encouraged you to do this accountancy course. You said you did the wrong one. Unfortunate, wasn't it?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, it took five years.

[James Reed]

Took five years. You did the wrong course.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

Right. So I mean there might be people listening who've had that experience. So how did you turn it into a. The right course?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, it was an accountancy part. I mean it wasn't as valuable as the other. I never see it now. It versus disappeared but it was a zim to represent company secretaries and there was an accounting paper in it and there's similar papers to the accounting exams but not some papers weren't relevant. So I would have been better off taking account. But anyway I, I did that later. Once I was self employed I, I did the accounting exams. So I've got two accounting qualifications.

[James Reed]

I suppose the message here for people leaving school without qualifications is, you know, you can still get qualifications afterwards.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Of course you do. Easier now, Easier now, Much easier.

[James Reed]

And that's definitely something that people should think about. So the journey that you took from Gillette, you were at Gillette, you were putting in ideas, you were getting paid for them and you were learning I guess about business. But then you decided to go it alone, branch out on your own. What prompted you to do that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, I had a tremendous urge to be self employed. It's almost a sickness that I desperately wanted to be self employed. I didn't mind what I earned. I was only earning 900 a year I think and I was quite happy with that. So it wasn't anything to do with income, it was just my ideas really. I couldn't stand my ideas being turned down as you know what, you're blaming.

[James Reed]

Me for turning down some of your ideas. That can happen, I know. Hands up, guilty as charged. But enough of them are landed, I hope for you to feel. I feel appreciated in part and I love your ideas and, and you're, you're an ideas machine in a way. You're always coming up with ideas. I mean that's been consistent in all the 61 years that I've known you.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, been a second century. I had the best idea probably ever for Reed before Reed was formed, but I didn't know it was a good idea. I knew it's not a difference.

[James Reed]

What was that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Charging more than anybody else.

[James Reed]

Charging more than anybody else. So talk me through that idea.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I was signing checks to employment agencies from Gillette, so I knew that they were getting good income.

[James Reed]

I said they were, they were suppliers to your business and you were paying.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Them and then one. Well, the local agency at Christmas took half a page in the local paper thanking all their clients and applicants and said how many people they placed in each of their offices.

[James Reed]

Oh, and you can work out.

[Sir Alec Reid]

My long accountancy qualification enabled me to work out that they were making a lot of money.

[James Reed]

So your wrong account seat qualification might have been the right accountancy qualification if it enable you to work that out. So you could see that they were doing pretty well.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. And I thought I could do. I could manage on half that and so I started in competition with him.

[James Reed]

So let's go back for a moment. You had this sort of urge to be self employed.

[Sir Alec Reid]

A sickness.

[James Reed]

A sickness, you called it. Yeah. Talk me through that. How did that feel? What? Why? What was. Where was that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Permanently restrained? I felt. I felt I was strapped in all the time.

[James Reed]

When you were working in Gillette.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And you wanted to break the straps free and do your own thing and that was your key urge to start a business?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, I was looking for a business. I knew I didn't want to be an accountant, which would have been one possibility. And so I was looking for things I could do and I thought I could do employment agency and did doing permanent entity.

[James Reed]

People these days talk a lot in business about problems to be solved. I mean, when you say you were looking for what you could do, were you. I mean, it was interesting when you talked about the toy soldiers, that that was a problem that you kind of solved for parents and kids at the time when there weren't many presents. When you started an employment agency back in 1960, was it hard for companies to find people? I mean, was it.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Was that very hard?

[James Reed]

So it was very hard, yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Do you know why?

[James Reed]

No.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Where did I start?

[James Reed]

Where did you open your first job? I know exactly where you. But you better tell us because this is your. Your. I know exactly. I know the address.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I started one branch, it was a great success. But where was it Hounds though.

[James Reed]

Kingsley Road Hounds.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, but that's not important. It sounds like.

[James Reed]

So why is Houndslow important to throw the question back.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Open the second branch. That was a great success. That was in Felton. Then I opened eight branches that all made losses.

[James Reed]

So those first two were successful because of your brilliance or for some other reason?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Some other reason.

[James Reed]

Oh, what was that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I was hoping. You tell me.

[James Reed]

I know the answer. But every good lawyer. I want you to tell me the answer.

[Sir Alec Reid]

London Airport.

[James Reed]

London Airport. What was happening there?

[Sir Alec Reid]

We're building the airport.

[James Reed]

So London Airport was a huge expansion.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. It created Enormous labor war with the Great West Road, which traditionally employed everybody. You know those factories on the Great West Road. And now suddenly a lot of people were required at London Airport.

[James Reed]

So there's a huge demand for skills and staff. And you were right in the middle of that.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And your business, forgive the pun, took off.

[Sir Alec Reid]

But.

[James Reed]

But it might have just ended up being just 2, 1 in Felton and one in Hounslow. It grew way beyond that under your leadership.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, I'd open the branches, so I had to make them work.

[James Reed]

So you had offices, as you said, in Fleet street and Slough.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I've been misled by the success. Thinking you could be profitable in the first month. I mean, the first week of Reed made a profit.

[James Reed]

The first week you made a profit.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So how much money did you need to start the business?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, as it happened, I needed nothing, but I had £75.

[James Reed]

So the message is, you can start a business with nothing if you've got the right idea in the right place at the right time. But you started with £75, which I. I believe you. Was your pension cashed in.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I wasn't good at saving money. This is the pension that they repay me at Gillette.

[James Reed]

Right.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Wouldn't have kept me going.

[James Reed]

And was Gillette an early customer?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So you maintain good relations with your fantastic relationship. Yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And support from them.

[James Reed]

So, okay, so you start a business. You're in Houghton Slope. You're working by yourself. I believe in a little office. How do you think about growing from there? What did you do next?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I was always thinking of the next office rather than the next placement. I sort of concentrated on the offices rather than the income.

[James Reed]

So you're looking at building that. But what about the people side of it? Who was your first hire and what. What sort of people were you looking for to join you? You know, obviously you can't do it all yourself.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, I didn't. I didn't have anybody for 12 months.

[James Reed]

A lot of people these days think starting a business, they need a business partner or that, you know, they do it with other people or find a friend or a sibling or. We've talked to other people on the podcast who, you know, there are two or three founders involved. You did it on your own. Do you think that's a better way of doing it, or do you have a view about that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I certainly think it's a better way.

[James Reed]

You. You think doing it on your own is a better way of doing it? Tell me why.

[Sir Alec Reid]

What.

[James Reed]

Why do you say that? You get your ideas undiluted Your idea is undiluted.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I suppose if you're a partner, there's a lot of compromise.

[James Reed]

So you rip these straps off to start this business. You didn't want anyone else saying, alec, I think we should do something else, or that's not a good idea, because you wanted to try out all your. Your thoughts and ideas as you grew the business. Some of the ideas would have worked and some won't. What was critical, do you think, in terms of continuing to make it a success? What did you really need to focus on? Because I suppose some ideas you have to kill off.

[Sir Alec Reid]

They die off.

[James Reed]

Yeah, they die.

[Sir Alec Reid]

You soon know that they're not working. I would say I really had too many ideas, I suppose, because when I started employment, I kept starting different businesses.

[James Reed]

You kept starting different businesses?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, just like starting businesses.

[James Reed]

So did you lose interest in the earlier ones or.

[Sir Alec Reid]

No, no, no, I didn't lose interest. Just. I thought the idea was too good to let go, so I must do something about it. And some of them came through the agency. We. We used to supply jobs to other agencies. We sell jobs to other agencies that they could fill. We had a service whereby companies send us the vacancy and I think they paid us an amount to circulate it to 100 agencies because everybody generally is a tight labor market.

[James Reed]

So everybody was looking for someone to fill a job and you could share that around and. Yeah, I mean, it's very different now and there are sort of lots of agencies chasing fewer jobs. I suppose you then built your business up through the 1960s, then you decided to float it on the London stock.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I had to float it. South Leisure was growing initially. I hadn't thought about temporaries. I'm just thinking about permanence, recruitment. Yeah, yeah. And it's only when I go into the business, I realized temporary was a big part of it. And that soaks up money. You've got to pay the temporary before you get the money from the client. And so the more temporaries you got, the bigger, the better you're doing. But the bigger your sales edge is coming. And financial squeeze with the banks. And one of them, Midland bank, which took our account away from us all together. I was asking them Christians, I was asking them if they would increase their overdraft from a million to a million and a half in the coming year because of this growth. And they said no, in fact, we want money back. So that was a happy Christmas.

[James Reed]

Yeah, yeah. So. So banks that aren't necessarily all they're cut out to be you'd say, well.

[Sir Alec Reid]

In fact it doesn't exist anymore. It was the bank's problem rather than ours.

[James Reed]

They were taken over by hsbc.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

They should have lend you the money. With hindsight, I didn't think our account.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Would keep him going.

[James Reed]

No, no. So you needed to raise funds in another way to finance.

[Sir Alec Reid]

We went to 3i, which was a company that invested in other companies still at cityxs and they turned us down. Well, funnily enough, a director of three I did invest in this when we went public. Stayed with us for years, but obviously his colleagues didn't agree with him and we eventually had to go public.

[James Reed]

So this was a route to finance. Yeah, I'm just thinking about these days, you know, that's a challenge for a lot of people starting or growing businesses and there are various options available to people to raise funds. But I mean other, some you would say you would recommend over others. I mean the company you took public is no longer public. So we took it private 30 odd years later. But that served you well at the time. What would you say now? Have you got any thoughts about finance now?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I used to say that was my biggest mistake, going public. But A, there's no other option and B, it brought us this. We wouldn't have, we wouldn't have the business school, we wouldn't have as part of the business.

[James Reed]

So the proceeds of going public enabled you to buy this business school, which was 50 years ago now more than I think. So that, that has enabled you to build up another, another offering that has been very positive for a lot of people. So sometimes the sort of needs must. And then you, you move on and you might come back around and change things subsequently. If that was your greatest mistake, it was also helpful at the time and you know, you were able to subsequently fix it.

[Sir Alec Reid]

It was nonsense. Being on socket change, it didn' for us at all.

[James Reed]

Why not?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Why was it, what, we didn't raise any more money. We didn't need to, but we just had to abide by their regulations.

[James Reed]

And that's why you subsequently felt it was a good idea to take it privately?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, when we had the opportunity.

[James Reed]

As a business grows, I'm, I'm thinking many entrepreneurs listening will be building businesses, thinking about the future. Typically in business, you know, we're worried about the immediate, you know, what's happening right now, this week, today. But then we might be thinking 10, 20 years out, our business sort of became by or by design a family business, I suppose. I'm sitting here talking to you, my Dad, I, I run the business now. That's one route an entrepreneur might consider, whether they want to bring their family into the business and carry on for more than one generation. There are obvious, obviously, others, such as a sale or some other exit. What are your thoughts about that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, I've got mixed feelings about it. I like the sound of family business, but I, I wonder who prospers from it, who benefits from it? And should those children have had the opportunities, spending their share in the way they wish?

[James Reed]

So that's from a family point of view. So, so, so that can cause conflict, I suppose.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, it does.

[James Reed]

What's the solution to that? Or is there not one?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I don't think there is one. It's just decision you make.

[James Reed]

So families have to decide whether they want to stick together or not. And I suppose if the entrepreneur makes that decision, they're in a sense locking their offspring together in a financial way that they wouldn't do if they sold the business.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And that's, I guess, ultimately a very personal decision, I suppose, that has to.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Be made each generation.

[James Reed]

You mentioned fairness in the context of family business. And fairness, I think, is super important in all aspects of life. But could you explain for people listening why it might be unfair to. I mean, a lot of people might think, oh, you're very lucky to inherit shares in a family business. What's unfair about that? And why is it unfair that someone might be part of a family company? Could you explain that to me?

[Sir Alec Reid]

It's unfair because it determines the choice. Really stuck with shares they can't sell. And if the leader in place another part of the family, he could be doing very badly. And the shareholders are locked in, so.

[James Reed]

They can't, they can't move their investment. But they're also fortunate to have inherited shares in the family.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Not as fortunate as they should have been because. Well, because they're limited in mobility of their money.

[James Reed]

If that business had been sold, they'd have got some cash.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And they could have done with that. They could have started their own business or done something.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Oh, they could have kept the shares in, in the new business. Lots of options, which would have been tax efficient.

[James Reed]

You're saying to entrepreneurs listening, if they're thinking about whether they want their business to become a family business, they need to consider that carefully because. Yeah, issues of fairness in families can be quite tectonic if it goes wrong. Yeah, there's lots of examples, which is a shame. Where business ends and family begins is often blurred in those situations. I mean, the family business is A very substantial part of the economy. Family business are very persistent business model and some family businesses have been going for many generations. What do you see as their potential? I mean if that's a potential weakness, what do you see as their possible.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Strengths or commitment, I suppose commitment, the family. But all these family businesses you're talking about on. I don't know anyway how long they've been going. Businesses don't last that long.

[James Reed]

No, I mean it's just I'm aware of some family businesses that have been going several generations, you know, and others.

[Sir Alec Reid]

But they're not family businesses anymore after several generations probably because, well, they've sold them. Yeah. I mean Marks and Spencer isn't a family business, is it?

[James Reed]

No, no it's not.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Lots of companies like that.

[James Reed]

Most of those like. Well, all those large retailers, Sainsbury's etc were family businesses and no longer are. I don't know how many generations they sustained as family. It would vary but in the end none of them continued to be. So I suppose this sounds to me like maybe there isn't enough talent available in a single family to grow a.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Business of that part of it's how fair you want to be to the rest of the family. You know, if you've got one individual who wants passionately wants to do something and would like his money, then it's very unfair I think unless families can.

[James Reed]

Find a way to sort of achieve an exit for that shareholder.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, I can't.

[James Reed]

Well, sometimes I think they do sometimes but I think I don't want to. Well, they might not want to. Yeah. Or they might not be able to afford it.

[Sir Alec Reid]

That's true.

[James Reed]

So if they can't afford it, an.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Outsider moves into family business.

[James Reed]

Yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

So it's not 100 family.

[James Reed]

Is there anything they can do to be on selling to mitigate that or manage that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Not really. Not. I suppose it's encouraged by a taxation system, the taxation advantages in maintaining it.

[James Reed]

So what does an entrepreneur who's building a fabulous business do then? What should they. Where's the end game here? I mean just sell out and buy a boat. I mean is that the best they.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Can do or for me it was easy. For you it's going to be more difficult. I had three children, one interested in business and good at business, so. And the other two recognize that and neither of them had a passion they wanted to pursue that required any capital. So there's no conflict for the capital and you had the talent but for you it's going to be not so difficult.

[James Reed]

That's kind of you to say, but that's something for me to think about, clearly. Yeah. And, you know. And what's the longevity of a business?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, it's been fortunate in having taxation relief. I don't know that's going to be affected now.

[James Reed]

Well, that's been changed, so there isn't so much taxation. There is some. But that. That will affect family businesses everywhere in the UK for certain. Yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

We probably need to look for another.

[James Reed]

Model and it might mean that a lot of them cease to be family businesses because that puts more financial pressure on the generational change.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So do you think that would be a loss to the uk that there were fewer family businesses? Do you think that. You know that commitment that you get that you mentioned from.

[Sir Alec Reid]

No, I don't really, because they're coming in later in the stage. They'll have their time as a family business to build and. And then they sell out. They're still getting the thrust from being a family business in the early days.

[James Reed]

In the short term, maybe not.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

Maybe not in the long term. So one thing, what you've done which is very significant is your involvement in philanthropy. You know, when I said just now, you know, what's an entrepreneur? Do they just sit out and buy a boat? I mean, they could get much more involved in philanthropy, which is something you did. But you. You were doing that very early on in your career, weren't you? You were involved with charity projects.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And after we went public, really, I started first 10 years was concentrating on the business.

[James Reed]

So 10 years after you'd started, you started doing some other things. So such as, what were you doing.

[Sir Alec Reid]

After the first thing was drug addicts In Soho, there was a retreat forum the charity run ran and they'd come in in the evening, but they needed a few sober people around, so I had another manned on Thursday evenings.

[James Reed]

Did you help them get jobs? Was that part of it?

[Sir Alec Reid]

They actually discontinued this. So the drug addicts ended up around Piccadilly Circus and we used to take them soup and this is about the time it's going public and so some of them realized I had the implementation. The thing they wanted most was heroin. They think they wanted second was a job so they could buy heroin. So they're all after me for a job. So we thought if we take start an employment agency away from Piguetti Circus and we just. We took it to Hounds though our original branch and then after about five years, chap running it for us came to us and said, there's no need for this now. There's such a shortage of jobs so that they don't need a specialist agency anymore.

[James Reed]

So there was such a shortage of jobs. Because I'm imagining now if you were sort of marketing people and saying that these people are drug addicts, it would be quite hard to convince.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, we concentrated on family businesses.

[James Reed]

That's interesting. Also, the family business would be open to giving someone a chance.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Reed]

Well, good for them.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

I'm glad they get a bit of credit, the family business group. So they were part of a community.

[Sir Alec Reid]

In that sense, whereas a bigger company, probably the individual, wouldn't want to take the risk.

[James Reed]

You went on from there to sort of found several charities as well as well, in terms of these. So where did the ideas for those charities come from? Can you mention maybe a couple of examples?

[Sir Alec Reid]

When I was ill, I had cancer when I was 52 and your mum worried over one of the companies I started called Medicare. And we built Medicare up to 50 branches of a drugstore and never made a profit. Never made a profit before tax, always made a profit after tax. There was such tax relief in those days that you can make a profit after tax. So as a public company, we sold Medicare and enormous bit of good luck. What was. We paid twice what it was worth. There were sewer bids and there were three or four sewer bids, about 9, 9, 10 million and one sealed bid at 20 million.

[James Reed]

So let's unpack this a lot a minute. So you started this business that only made profits after tax because you got tax refunded, that you then put up for sale because you'd been unwell.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And your wife said, you sell it because you're working too hard, I think. And then you were able to achieve a price that was double what it was worth. This is a sequence of events that's pretty remarkable. But you said it was a sealed bid. And I think for people listening, understanding the difference between a regular auction and a sealed bid auction is quite significant here.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Isn't it binding? It's binding.

[James Reed]

If it hadn't been sealed bid, would you have got double the price?

[Sir Alec Reid]

No, I wouldn't have got 20, would I?

[James Reed]

I don't think so. No, not so the fact that bid 9, 10 and 11, someone might have been 12, but they wouldn't have been 24. So a bit of actionable advice for our listeners is if you want to sell something, think about a sealed bid auction. I mean, I remember you telling me that at the time.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And so you made a good return on this business. And then what did you do with the proceeds?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Amazing.

[James Reed]

You had cancer. What was your, what was your prognosis? And you had cancer at 52.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Not good. Stage four.

[James Reed]

So what was your chance of surviving that?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I think it was 40 chance.

[James Reed]

So you had a 52 or 40 chance of carrying on in life and you just made 20 million. What did you do next?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Medicare itself owed Reed 5 million. They had a current account with Reef.

[James Reed]

All the loans you'd given them.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, yeah. So they paid that back and I owned a third of the equity. We returned the rest of the shareholders and I owned a third of it.

[James Reed]

Yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And that gave me 5 million tax free with inheritance tax hanging over me. So I wasn't very attractive. I didn't know I was going to survive. So I didn't like that. I could have taken the shares in the acquiring company. That would have been tax free. Inheritance tax was likely to be paid because I had this 60% chance of not surviving. If I took the shares of the company that was buying the business, they would have been tax free. But the company just paid twice what it should have done. So that didn't encourage me. The third thing I thought of was if I give it to a charity, it goes complete, untouched. So I gave my 5 million through Reid Foundation. I had a little family charity called Reed Charity and I used that as a vehicle to put 5 million in and then ponder about how to spend it. I think it's very important to decide how much you're going to give before you decide what you're going to give it to. If you wait until you give it to, it can take forever. Whereas if you get the giving out of the ways the whole thing up.

[James Reed]

So you put it into the charity. You decided to give 5 million away. What happened next? Because it became almost like a social enterprise fund, didn't it? You started lots of new charities from that starting point. And also it became a shareholder in the business.

[Sir Alec Reid]

One of our competitors, international competitors, built up a shareholding in Reed because they.

[James Reed]

Were hoping to take it over because they'd seen you were unwell or.

[Sir Alec Reid]

No, I think it's longer term than that.

[James Reed]

Yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And but then they obviously changed, change their mind, change of management and they put it on the market and I had the opportunity to buy it for re foundation, which I did. That proved enormous switch of power built up the family's controlled shareholding.

[James Reed]

Foundation, controlled shareholding.

[Sir Alec Reid]

We're family and the foundation.

[James Reed]

So the foundation became a shareholder. But then you started, I think going further forward into late 90s, you started a charity called Ethiopia. You started one womankind. You, you sort of had a sort of great series of social innovations. So what prompted you to do those or how did that come about?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Womankind was first, I, I was on the board of various charities. I was on the board of Help the Aged and they had a Saturday stew, an away day and it's a way day and sun was shining, missing in the garden. I was half asleep thinking about things and I thought, you know, they're all mainly women here today. Why isn't there a woman's charity? They've been much more trustworthy than men and they put more of their time in men. They probably put more of their money. So there ought to be a charity based on women. I recruited a tough lady to run it.

[James Reed]

That was very forward thinking at the time.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, there's a few, few women in charities now.

[James Reed]

Once you say it, it sort of is so obvious. Yeah, that was a, again a gap in the market that should have been better served. So then you also did one for Ethiopia.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, through one kind foreign office or something. I was sent an Ethiopian lady that needed a donation to finish her education in, in England. So she, she came to see me and it's a thousand pounds or something, so it's easily resolved. I was then prompted by words from you and the other children. You go to the third World for your holidays, why don't you go to see the aid that's done there? And so that was ringing in my ears as she was speaking and she invited me and as it turned out our Sadrian came to Ethiopia. She invited us to stay with her, but she, Ethiopia was then very political and I didn't want to get involved in one party, so we didn't say with her, but she showed us around. She was starting a venture for one of the areas, one of the slums. And one of the things they desperately needed was this suction truck that goes around and gets all the feces out of the alleys. And that's what our first investment was.

[James Reed]

So it was literally a truck that was emptied, drains and sewers to keep water clean and so important and so needed in a society like that, without the. Yeah, without the sewage system that we take for granted. So that was where you began and then you did more and more people.

[Sir Alec Reid]

That ran the women's charity didn't really want my involvement, they wanted my money.

[James Reed]

But yeah, they wanted their independence. Probably the, the sort of defining. Well, I, I suppose if we come back to ideas, you know, if I was to ask you what's been. One of your best ideas would be a philanthropic one.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, I'm thinking.

[James Reed]

I'm thinking the Big Give.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. They're untackled, really, they're neglected.

[James Reed]

The Big Give is a charity match funding fundraising platform. That was your idea?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

It's currently raised over 300 million for thousands of charities that work all over the world. Talk me through that idea. What, what gave you that idea?

[Sir Alec Reid]

As I say, people have difficulty in finding what to give to and large donors reported aren't giving nearly as much as they do in other countries.

[James Reed]

So what, wealthy people aren't giving as much?

[Sir Alec Reid]

You think about it, there aren't many products appealing to wealthy people. I mean, charitable products, I suppose you'd be.

[James Reed]

We're typically asked for 50 quid or, you know, when you get a mail shot or something.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, yeah, you want 50, 000 quid. There are a few offers of naming rooms or balconies or things, but nobody aims at richer people. So this was an idea of fundraising. It started with me starting a website to attract big donors. That was the first solution and that failed. It only had one donation, it was quarter of a million. But it. It wasn't satisfying anybody, really. You couldn't look it up. It just wasn't fulfilling. Re foundation had a million to give away itself Stone it's dividend. So I wrote to all charities and said, 10 o'clock on Tuesday, I'm going to start matching funds. So first come, first served. And the million pound went in 45 minutes and we matched it. So I knew that matching was on the app.

[James Reed]

So you're saying, you give a pound, I'll give a pound.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

Up to a million. And that went 45 minutes.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So that was. That was clearly a good idea.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. One that's defining ideas or it's the third layer of donors. I was aware that America, if you. I was close to the Opera House then and I realized that if you're on the board of the Opera House, you've done your bit, you know, you weren't pressurized to give a donation or anything, but if it was in America, you would be. If you're on the board, you expected to be a substantial donor.

[James Reed]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

So I thought, we're neglecting that. How can we bring those in? So that brought a third batching in. What makes the. The Big Give is the double matching, not the matching.

[James Reed]

So to explain to people listening, if. If the Royal Opera House wanted to raise money through the Big Give, we'd find a champion who might put in a hundred thousand, but then they'd have to find one of their trustees or another big supporter to match that. So it becomes 200,000. So when it's open to the public, they can raise 400,000. That's what you're saying? Yeah. So that was. It was getting the double match. So there was two ideas there that you. You had one and then you cultivated it and developed another. So an idea off an idea. This thing too, though, it's quite.

[Sir Alec Reid]

You.

[James Reed]

You said that the business you started made a profit in the first week. The idea to have a million pounds and make it matchable was used up in 45 minutes. I mean, do you think good ideas become, you know, obvious? I mean, they both happen pretty quickly. You know, these were key ideas that in your career that you were then able to really successfully pursue. But the early signs were. Were good pretty much from the off.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I. I don't think they're exceptional.

[James Reed]

That's just exceptional. So a good idea might take a lot longer to brew. Yeah, that was just.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And if you fail, it's changes direction. Yeah.

[James Reed]

I'd like to talk about failure because you said that, you know, failed in its earlier iterations. You've talked about failure a lot in your career and I'm saying failing. Well, you failed a lot. Yeah. You said, are you failing to succeed? You've said. So talk about failing a lot.

[Sir Alec Reid]

What does it mean in regards. Failure as an indication. Detractive.

[James Reed]

As an indication of pointing you in another direction. So you think of failure is just pointing you in another direction, bucking you off.

[Sir Alec Reid]

This isn't the right. This isn't the road you should be coming down.

[James Reed]

But it's not saying you shouldn't be going down any road, saying, no, it.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Pushes you to another one.

[James Reed]

Try another road.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, quite.

[James Reed]

So you see failure as a signpost.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

Not a buffer. Well, I think that's a very interesting thought. I mean, it's not a lot. A lot of us, you know, when blocked or stopped, might think that's it, but actually you're seeing it as a sign to go in another look at something else.

[Sir Alec Reid]

You haven't got quite the right idea.

[James Reed]

Well, that removes a lot of negativity from failure.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, Well, I was brought up to be positive. My parents are never critical. Well, I have terrible, terrible school reports, as you've seen.

[James Reed]

So you came home with these awful reports. So this is interesting from a parenting perspective. What, your mother and father didn't mind or didn't say anything or.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Well, Looking back, I suppose they thought they knew me better than the teacher did and I supported their view because I've had other.

[James Reed]

Other guests on the podcast who've talked about adhd, for instance. And, you know, children who demonstrate these characteristics often don't perform well at school.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

But can be very brilliant after school.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Absolutely.

[James Reed]

So. But if you were young now, you might have been diagnosed with that. But you were fortunate in that your parents were very relaxed around that.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And knew you as who you were and let you get on with life.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And didn't.

[Sir Alec Reid]

And encouraging.

[James Reed]

Yeah. So you weren't sort of crushed by negative feedback.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Became most insignificant.

[James Reed]

So. So there's something very important here about confidence, isn't there? To try things, do things.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. Confidence.

[James Reed]

Does that come from the home or how do we find confidence if we're not sure that we have it? I mean, is that possible? I mean, you know, any adult listings, obviously it's too late for their mum and dad to do it. Have you got any thoughts around that? I mean, seeing failure as a signpost is one.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. If you think that there's lots of examples of people who failed and succeeded later.

[James Reed]

Sometimes told, you know, in America, entrepreneurs, you know, to be a proper entrepreneur, you need to have demonstrated you've failed a few times. Do you think in the UK that people. That our society is intolerant of failure or somehow could be more open to giving people a chance?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I think it's getting better, but it's not there yet.

[James Reed]

Not yet. So people are more open to entrepreneur. So coming back to the sort of early theme of ideas, you said right at the beginning of our conversation, that's what motivated you to sort of set off on your own.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

You want to have freedom for ideas. Have you got any guidance for people how to come up with ideas, how to be more creative around ideas, how to could sort of be more ideas driven are the ways of behaving or thinking that you could encourage people that they might find helpful, being more critical.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I suppose I promote the idea of an idea a day. As you know, ideas come in all shapes and size and some of them are insignificant, but they're still worth having their exercise as an exercise to have an idea. And so part of those ideas can be based on criticism. Looking at road sign, for instance, just driving along the road, why do they put four miles and a quarter? Why don't they just say four mars, say the painting of a quarter? So silly little things like that.

[James Reed]

Oh, so what you're saying an idea is coming from Critiquing what you're seeing around you. It's not. I, I might have misunderstood that in terms of thinking it's a criticism incoming.

[Sir Alec Reid]

To me saying no, it's criticizing other people.

[James Reed]

So. So you're getting ideas from criticizing other people, not from being criticized, so to speak.

[Sir Alec Reid]

No. Oh no, sorry I misled you.

[James Reed]

But there is, there is a sense of being self critical might be helpful in terms of generating ideas about how I might proceed or improve or grow. You don't feel that's part of it or not.

[Sir Alec Reid]

You don't do that.

[James Reed]

You don't. So. So you're just looking around you, looking at that could be improved by this or that.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah, I think self criticism. Bit negative, isn't it?

[James Reed]

I don't know. Do you?

[Sir Alec Reid]

I don't do much of it.

[James Reed]

That might be a very good idea. I think if I take this away, do a lot less of it. I think that's a good idea. So. But an idea a day. So it's like doing a bit of gym exercise, you're saying. But it, it could be a big idea or a small idea, couldn't it? Yeah, it doesn't matter. But you're saying it's a good idea to clock that you've had an idea today.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. Just keep it front of the agenda.

[James Reed]

And you're still doing that. Yeah, yeah.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Try to.

[James Reed]

And you're 91 years old. I said, well, that's pretty cool. I mean, I think, you know, so I think having a new idea every.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Day, it's getting past years of trouble.

[James Reed]

Well, getting you to come here was hard. So, you know, that's a. So you're still having business ideas. When you say getting them past me is the trouble.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So that, that.

[Sir Alec Reid]

No.

[James Reed]

And I, and I value that hugely. But as you said earlier in my defense, sometimes you have too many ideas. So this is. But ideas as a currency, I think is, is your key message really that.

[Sir Alec Reid]

It'S the basis lack of ideas nationally.

[James Reed]

Lack of ideas nationally, yeah. How do we solve these problems through.

[Sir Alec Reid]

The people in some way. There's no mechanism by which somebody has an idea for the state can put it forward.

[James Reed]

So you're thinking that, you know, everyone's looking to the Chancellor or the Prime Minister to solve the country's problems when we could all play a part.

[Sir Alec Reid]

They've got a department of innovation, but I don't know how much innovation comes from it. But the department of ideas, that has.

[James Reed]

To have an idea a day.

[Sir Alec Reid]

But it would do department, you'd hope might not Be very productive using the public.

[James Reed]

Yeah. But have to surface a good one every day to improve the country. That would be a good idea. I agree. There is a shortage of.

[Sir Alec Reid]

I wrote an article, as you know, I've been talking to you recently about it 20 years ago for the Financial Times, saying how they could change the taxation system, the benefit, national health. And the last few weeks I've read that France adopted that system, more or less.

[James Reed]

What was the idea?

[Sir Alec Reid]

People ought to. If they can afford to pay for their treatment or any government service, you. You pay for it. But initially we've all got a credit card, government credit card. And you present that against any bills that come from the government. Government offering services don't know whether it's your money or safe money. So you probably get a better service there. They're thinking estate money. It's your. Your money.

[James Reed]

So you have. You're like an account holder.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah. It could be a citizen card as well.

[James Reed]

Citizens account. And they're doing that in France, but not here. Interesting.

[Sir Alec Reid]

It's benefited the system enormously, apparently. But nobody in the Financial Times. Nobody picked it up.

[James Reed]

No. Do you think they don't pick up the Financial Times? Who reads the Financial Times? I don't know. I mean, you'd hope some people would see that. I think it was a good idea.

[Sir Alec Reid]

You thought a financial time might have furthered it.

[James Reed]

That's interesting, because that sort of frustration around your ideas not being heard was what got you going on your own in the first place.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

And. And that's a frustration that I think people everywhere must feel who have ideas. Because, you know, it is very difficult necessarily persuade other people to. To try things. You have to try them yourself in the end. That's what I like about podcasts. You can talk to whoever you like, wherever you want, whenever you like, about what you want. And if anyone's interested in listening, they can listen to it, and if they don't, they can switch it off. But it's just a way of sharing ideas.

[Sir Alec Reid]

But it's like the media, isn't it? It's another form of media. It doesn't mean they're going to do anything about it. We wanted to stage further. So somebody's. Somebody's listening.

[James Reed]

That's what I was told many years ago, that listening occurs. Well, communication occurs in the mind of the listener. You might be sort of communicating or thinking you're communicating. But if no one's listening, no one's hearing and no one acts upon it, who cares?

[Sir Alec Reid]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So maybe the sort of. The sort of dialogue is in need of redesign. So that ideas, so somebody picking them up surface more and people pick them.

[Sir Alec Reid]

Up, they ought to be more important.

[James Reed]

In companies prioritizing innovation ideas should be a national endeavor. That's your message. I couldn't agree more. I think that's a good place to finish. So thanks, thanks for coming to talk to me today in your business school. It's been a great pleasure. And, and I hope you've enjoyed it, too. And the fire's still burning, which is a good sign. Yeah, it's done. Well, thank you, Dan, for joining me on All ABOUT business. You know that I'm your host, James Reed, chairman and CEO of Reid, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company. But what I'm really here to say is happy birthday. See you next time.