← James Reed: all about business
James Reed: all about business
29. From nail art in Dalston to global beauty-tech icon | Sharmadean Reid MBE
01:05:18
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- [00:00]
James Reed
Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests who bootstrapped companies, masterminded investment models or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture. Most entrepreneurs dream of getting venture capital investment, but how can you be sure you're making the right deal for you and your business? Today's guest, Sharma Dean Reed MBE, claims that being a founder is all about developing your entrepreneurial intuition and how you tell the story. She started her business WA Nails when she was just 24 and a few years later raised over a million pounds for her tech company, Beauty Stack. In this episode of All About Business, we discuss the truth behind trusting your gut, how to network like a pro, and how to develop an idea for an exciting new business venture. Well, today on All About Business, I'm delighted to welcome Sharmadine Reed, who's come to see us from Wolverhampton and is entrepreneur, a creative consultant, an advocate for women's empowerment and started several businesses and has also been awarded an MBE by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. And I'm really looking forward to talking to you, Sharma Dean, because I know you've got a fantastic story and quite a lot of exciting new ideas to talk about, which I think will be inspiring and motivational to our listeners. So I'd like to just start. I mentioned you came from Wolverhampton Today, your hometown. You started a business there in 2009. What was it? Tell me about it.
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Sharmadine Reed
So my first business in 2009 was in London.
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James Reed
Oh, it wasn't in.
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Sharmadine Reed
Do you want to say that again?
- [02:08]
James Reed
No, no, you put me. Right, carry on.
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Sharmadine Reed
I'm sorry. So I moved to London from Wolverhampton in 2003.
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James Reed
Yeah.
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Sharmadine Reed
I studied at Central St Martin's I did fashion communication, but I worked the whole way through my degree because I had no money, so I had no choice. But I did also work for the fashion designers who I was really inspired by. So that really kick started my career. During that time, I started a magazine at university. So I. I think I was 20 or 21 when I started War magazine. That was like a really fun project. You're gonna hear me say that over and over again. This is a fun project. It really was because I saw this gap in media for, like, women and hip hop. I sat in my bedroom for two months and made this little magazine after university, so I'd go to classes Come home, make my magazine. And then when I published it, I would give it away to girls on the street or in clubs. And then that magazine, when I graduated, then became my first business, which was Wales, and that was in 2009 in Dalston. So the premise of it started for sure while I was at university. And I think a lot of people start different businesses at university. One or two people, yeah, I can imagine. And then, you know, develop into the real thing. But yeah, 2009, I launched WA Nails in Dalston. And the vision was to just be a clubhouse. All of the readers of the magazine and I thought, what's going to, you know, make us have fun? I always used to get my nails done. It was like such a social experience, but it wasn't aesthetically what I thought was trending at the time. So I just made this very cool nail salon that looked like my teenage bedroom. And girls from all over the world would come to get their nails done at W Nails.
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James Reed
Why do you call it WA?
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Sharmadine Reed
Well, it stood for We Ain't Hoes.
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James Reed
Oh, okay, all right. So that's cool because.
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Sharmadine Reed
So this is actually quite important. I would say that I don't think of myself as a business person. I think of myself as a founder who likes creating experiences, products that communicate what I think is the like collective mood. And the collective mood of that era, 2007, 8, 9, was there are a lot of young girls who felt like they were being over sexualized in music. So if you take your mind back, it was like, you know, 50 Cent, it was the hip hop videos where girls would be half naked dancing. It was very women as objects in the music, like video industry. But there were many women who love DJing, love hip hop, love graffiti, you know, loved all of the tenants of hip hop, but didn't want to be naked. So WA stood for We Ain't Hoes as a collective energy to be like, actually we are here as women doing things in this world that don't involve taking our clothes off.
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James Reed
You know, that really resonated with people. From what you said, people came from.
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Sharmadine Reed
All over the world, big time. It was huge success. It was like, I think we just tapped into multiple energies. So the idea of rising feminism, even if you didn't know what it was like, I didn't. The independence of women again, you know, following on from like girl ladette culture of the 90s, there was a huge drive of street wear culture being mainstream fashion. So getting your nails done was seen as a quite hood thing to do. You either went to Brixton or Hackney, you know, not you wouldn't get like a West London girl going to get palm trees on her nails, but we made it cool. So because of my background in high fashion, because you've got to remember, on one hand I was like working the shows in Paris Fashion Week and on, on the other I was going to hip hop clubs and I would be this bridge between these two worlds. So even though I understood this hip hop and downtown culture, I understood an uptown high fashion culture. And I think that's why it was widely adopted. We did lots of things when I look now in hindsight. So like for example, we didn't build a website, we built a Tumblr. Do you remember Tumblr? So the difference between that, if you think of a website in 2009, this is pre Instagram, pre everybody having iPhones, that would be a static page on the web. You could never really update it that much because you'd have to call a developer. But Tumblr was this living, breathing thing that was then reposted millions of times. So instead of having a website, we had a tumbler for the salon for the business. And every time we did an incredible nail design because our thing was anything you wanted on your nails, we would paint, we would post it on Tumblr and people would repost it. So I would say we were like probably the first viral nail salon on the Internet, which is how we got so famous. Then before you know it, brands would be flying us all over the world to do popup nail bars. And that's how we made the bulk of our money. So initially, you know, we were just one salon in Dston, ticking along, you know, getting 30 pound a nail. Then we opened up in Topshop, which completely transformed our business. Overnight. We were like in the ground floor of Top Shop in Oxford Circus. So now we were like crazy busy. And also, if I went anywhere in the world and said, we're in Topshop, Oxford Circus, they knew that brand name, so it made us important. And then companies would always come to Topshop. You know, we miss it so much for knowing what was next. And cool. So, for example, British Airways hired us to set up a nail bar in New York to promote a new London to New York route. And we flew to Moscow and Abu Dhabi. We did Ferrari nails in the Grand Prix backstage. The highlight, amazing.
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James Reed
I mean, all from a nail bar.
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Sharmadine Reed
In D. I know, right? I mean, that's the highlight to me because I was so influenced by Japanese nail design and Japanese culture is when we Got flown to Tokyo. I always say it's like ice to Eskimos. When we were flown to Tokyo to do n for opening ceremony in Tokyo, I was seven months pregnant. It was the last flight I could take. And I was like, this is a career highlight because I can't believe Japanese girls want the nails that we do.
- [08:43]
James Reed
Right?
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Sharmadine Reed
And they did, and they did.
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James Reed
And it was a big success.
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Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, it was great.
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James Reed
How did that business develop from there? What did you do next?
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Sharmadine Reed
So in honesty, I was very overwhelmed because I had a really good career as a fashion stylist and consultant and I opened the business to be a fun hangout spot for me and my friends. I knew it would be cool, but I didn't anticipate how big it would be. And I was only 25 then I had a baby at 26, so I was like a young working mom. Sometimes when I look back, I think, how did you do? I don't even know how I did it. Like I said, I flew to Japan 7 months pregnant as a 25 year old. Can you believe? Like, well, it's kind of crazy when I look back, a lot happening and I did not have a strategy for that business at all. I was just like saying yes to everything. So I would say I got very burnt out at about 28 years old and I decided to move back to my hometown the first time and kind of slow the business down a bit, which it didn't actually slow down. I just made a product line with Boots, Walgreens. We launched a full nail polish line into boots and I traveled all over the UK doing training, you know, again with a little two, three year old.
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James Reed
We're delighted that you're listening to this episode. Hit the follow button so that we can continue to bring you the best business insight and actionable advice to help your business and or career.
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Sharmadine Reed
It just kept growing and growing and all of these opportunities kept coming and coming and I was thinking, I'm working like a maniac. But I don't really know what the bigger picture is here. And that's when I thought, I'm going to take a bit of time out. I moved back to Wolverhampton, so this would have been 2013-15. And I started to reflect and pause. And I do this often throughout my life. I'm kind of like all or nothing, you know what I mean? So I started to think, what is the bigger picture here now? At the time, 2013, 14, 15 was when the idea of startups and Silicon Valley and tech companies was bubbling up in the uk. It wasn't a huge thing. Like, you know, we didn't have the ecosystem for tech and startups and venture capital we have now. But it was bubbling. And I thought, I kept hearing about all these people raising money for what I thought were really simple ideas. And I thought, I can raise some money. So I spent those two years in Wolverhampton learning everything to do with venture capital, everything to do with fundraising, everything to do with building software.
- [11:27]
James Reed
So your reading list change from feminism.
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Sharmadine Reed
To venture capital big time. And like, Switch, okay, super switch. And listen, I'm a Gemini, whether you want to believe that or not. I get obsessive when I'm into something. I exhaust every bit of literature, podcasts, film, music, everything to do with it. So for those two years, yes, I completely immersed myself in this world. And because I was sort of both healing and like, taking it slow and healing, while also kind of thinking about what the next move was. So I thought, okay, you know, everyone comes into the nail salon with screenshots of what they want on their nails. Tumblr, which we'd was an early user of, was huge for us. Instagram, which we were an early use of, was huge for us. People would screenshot Tumblr, Instagram and bring them in or email and say, how much is this? How long does it take? What is it? You know, is it acrylic? Is it gel? And I used to say to myself, it'd be so much easier if people could just book the picture. So I thought, aha, that's my business. So I created a plan to develop a visual booking system. It never been done before and as far as I know, still nobody's done it. But I thought, how am I, an unknown person in tech who has never built anything before, going to enter this world of venture capital and actually raise money? So I thought, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to move back to London. I'm going to open a brand new salon in Soho. I'm going to create a few small technology projects to prove that I can build technology and I understand it, which I always did, by the way, because I went to a very techie, innovative school. It was like a school of the future. So I moved back in 2015 to London. Within six months, I'd found the location. Then I secured the lease, which was in Soho, next to Supreme. I built a booking chatbot. I found this. I read this article online of this, these two guys in New York who were building customer chat bots. So I emailed them I said, hey, we're in our salon. Will you build it for free? Because we'll be the best case study you're ever gonna have. And they're learn, okay? They built it for me for free. And actually I'm still friends with them today. Actually, what was interesting about that chat bar, I said to them, and this is a really good example, if you're young business person who wants to get people on board with your ide, I always try and think, what is it about this free project that will give them talking points for the next five years? So I said to him, you're building chatbots for salons right now, but all of the services are pretty standard. So manicure, pedicure, blow dry. I said, if you build one for us, we will give you the widest data set. So it will be nails, long, short, graphic, pink, Valentine's Day. Do you get what I mean? So the data set will be much richer and then you can use that for your the clients. That's what I said. I'm always trying to make it mutually beneficial with collaborations and partnerships. So I built the chatbot 2015. Then I worked with a friend who's like an Internet artist to build a virtual reality nail art system. It was insane. You can still find it on YouTube actually, if you search War VR. And then I basically opened the salon with the story of the salon of the future. So now we're in 2016 17. And if you remember, during that period, everyone was obsessed with retail future tech. So it was like, how many people are in the store at any one time? Let's build some computer vision technology to count it. You know, no one uses that now. You know, it was a lot of that type of like, what is frontier technology for consumer based businesses. And every company would put like a massive engineering team behind it. I remember because I was working with boots at the time. They were trying to build like a boots. Something as basic as a quiz to test your skin care would require a team of 10 people. And I would be like, guys, I.
- [15:54]
James Reed
Those were great days for IT Recruitment sadly gone, but they were great.
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Sharmadine Reed
You remember it, right?
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James Reed
I do, very fondly, yeah.
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Sharmadine Reed
Oh my goodness.
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James Reed
A lot of people were recruiting, yeah.
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Sharmadine Reed
10 engineers in a room to build a quiz. I would be like, guys, I guess I'm bad for you business because I would be like, right, I'm gonna figure out how to do it, I'm gonna learn how to code, I'm gonna quickly do it, I'm gonna figure it out and I'll just Build it. So the fact that we built a virtual reality experience with like three people that cost less than ten grand, but company, you know, massive companies would spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on a virtual reality experience. I would always just be like, what can I do? That would be quick, dirty, get the point across, create a unique experience for a new audience and let's do it.
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James Reed
Have a go.
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Sharmadine Reed
Have a go.
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James Reed
Yeah.
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Sharmadine Reed
And actually I ended up a lot of businesses then hired me to consult, to tell them how I just did it in a gorilla right way. So then after I'd done that, I then did my pitch deck. So the salon was open for nine months. I did all the training, you know, all the press, got everything in place and then I said, bye, guys, I'm going to work on my startup. I'd met a guy at an event, he worked at Facebook at the time and he said, you can use our office for free. I was like, great. He's like, build your startup in in our meeting room. So I went to this meeting room on Tottenham Court Road under the Facebook office that used to be there and I started working on my startup. I met my co founders, persuaded them to join with my persuasive skills, which I think is like a really underrated founder skill. You have to be able to tell a story and get people on board with whatever your big vision is. So then the three of us sat in this room and I did the pitch deck while they started coding the first version of the product. And then that's when I developed Beauty Stack. And once the pitch deck was ready, I took it out and then raised our first round of capital.
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James Reed
And so from the customer point of view, Beauty Stack worked online. You could book.
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Sharmadine Reed
Yeah. So the original vision for Beauty Stack was a Tumblr style web platform where you beauty professionals could design their own pages, a bit like a Shopify. And you could book from a picture. So rather than book a string of text, you would be booking a jpeg, which again, sounds so basic, but it's completely innovative. Can you take a JPEG and attach it to a time based booking rather than take the word manicure? And my vision for it was that we would have millions and millions of beauty images in our system that would all be tagged, would use computer vision to be able to see what the trends were, suggest and recommend. If you're into this type of nails, you're probably going to be into this type of braid. Because my human speciality of spotting trends, insights and understanding people, we would code that in. So for example, if you liked a metallic chrome nail art, it's highly likely that the girl who has that kind of nails to me, listens to a type of music, hangs out at a type of restaurant. Like, I just, I can build a picture of her just by seeing one little thing. So then, because I can do that, I would say to the engineers, right, every girl who booked this nail artist, let's send them a five pound voucher for this braider, because the girl who likes this nails is probably going to like this. And that was really fun. And like, I missed that business so much because it had so much potential and nobody was doing it. And it was very unique to what I, my skill set is. And I loved working 50 with the engineering team and 50 with the beauty team. It's like both sides of my brain together. I like building really small teams to get things done and inspiring and motivating and kind of having a plan to execute. I love hitting deadlines on time, on budget. I'm always like, you're going to get.
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James Reed
Hired by lots of people.
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Sharmadine Reed
We're releasing, we are releasing today. Like, people would be like, the app's not ready to release. I'm like, it is you. We're releasing today. And I'll be like, if it's not, let's sort it out right now. And I do miss that. It's fun.
- [20:21]
James Reed
So you say you miss it because it, it came to an end.
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Sharmadine Reed
Yeah.
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James Reed
So what happened?
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Sharmadine Reed
What happened was in the pandemic, so we had built the first prototype, we'd raised 4, so we raised, I think it was a 600k pre seed. Then we raised 4 million seed. We built first version of the app, we had 20 active beauty professionals using it in beta and we're about to launch it publicly so that anyone could sign up. And then the pandemic hit. And in the pandemic, nobody could book beauty. And I didn't really know what to do.
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James Reed
Like, no, that's, that's bad timing.
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Sharmadine Reed
You know, it was really bad timing. And it's funny because there's so many, you know, this. I feel like, you know, obviously it wasn't just me. There was so many founders in the same position. And I was just like, I have created the timeline so many times because I just want to post mortem on what went wrong. You know, the combination of the pandemic hitting. You couldn't book beauty and then you could book barbers, but not beauty. Do you remember that whole era?
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James Reed
Yes.
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Sharmadine Reed
You could book some things, but not others. People were scared to go to their beauticians. Because when you have a beauty treatment, you're in very close proximity to somebody. So even if you could book beauty, people were scared to book. So we effectively, for 14 months, couldn't operate at full capacity. And if you imagine we're a startup with a burn rate, the times were good. In 2018-19. We took a huge office. We were. In my head, I was gonna have 100 staff members and raise a Series A. Do you get what I mean?
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James Reed
You can be blamed for this.
- [22:10]
Sharmadine Reed
And then on top of that, that, you know, two months after the pandemic, when George Floyd was murdered, I was one of three black founders that I knew in the industry. And it really affected me. It, you know, it was me and some of my two co founders. One of them's Ugandan. And then of the team, I'd say about 40, 50 of them were people of color as well. So when I look back at our stats for the whole of June, So George Floyd was murdered May 21st fifth, I believe, for the whole of June. We didn't really do any work as a company. Everyone was just like, what is going on? We can't operate. Now this whole thing has happened that has highlighted the discrepancies of people in color in various industries and especially in tech. There weren't many, if any, black women who had raised funding or had similar pressure at the time, had the same pressures that I felt from venture capital. So if I'm honest, it was a combination of, like, inexperience for my first macro world event, because, you know, one of my investors later on down the line said, well, why didn't you pivot quick enough? Because one of my other founders pivoted immediately. And I said, oh, that's really interesting. And this is like, you know, something I've written in my book about, like, asking questions. So I said, tell me about that founder. How old is he? Firstly, it's a he, right? How old? And he's white. How old is he? He went, oh, he's in his 50s. I went, oh, interesting. And what. How many software companies has he built? Oh, this is his third company. I was like, okay, if I was in my 50s, had been through several world events, you know, several recessions, I was on my third startup. I would have pivoted too. Do you think I'll ever make this mistake again? I was like, I've never built tech. I've never had a big world event happen to me like this, and now I'll just know better.
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James Reed
Well, that individual could have called you and said pivot.
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Sharmadine Reed
Wow.
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James Reed
And didn't, interestingly.
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Sharmadine Reed
Do you know something? I try not to think about that too much, but that was a huge part of it. Like, since the pandemic, over the last, you know, four years, I've really been questioning my place in business, my place in tech, and my place in a corporate world. Because at the time, I was part of a ypo star group, me and five guys. And every month during the pandemic, we would meet. Every single one of the guys had investors who called them up and offered the money. And I was like, interesting. Nobody's done that for me. Do you know what I mean? And yes, they could have called me up. I think it's. I'm. I'm the kind. My personality is like, where's my responsibility first? Like, I always try and think the same way I approach criticism. Like, where am I wrong? Then the second layer is, how can I have compassion for myself in what I did wrong? And then the third layer is how is the system designed to not have supported me or supported me on that place? And did I take the advice or did I not? So I remember someone did give me a piece of advice, a founder friend. She said, if America is opening up beauty state by state as it was, because the UK was blanket, no beauty, but America, different states, you could do beauty. She was like, why don't you just go and launch it in America? And I wish I did that because. But I couldn't because I have a child that I co parent.
- [25:53]
James Reed
You want to beat yourself up?
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Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, I don't want to beat myself up, but I also think reflection's important for growth big time.
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James Reed
But I mean, it's not as if you're not doing stuff now, is it? I mean, you've got. Let's. Let's move forward another to the next chapter, because you've got so much happening now. Well, it's really quite exciting, isn't it?
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Sharmadine Reed
I think just talking quickly, before we go into that chapter, about what I did eventually pivot into.
- [26:16]
James Reed
Yeah, let's hear.
- [26:17]
Sharmadine Reed
I pivoted beauty stack into the stack world because I was thinking, what can we do during the pandemic? And it was events and conversation and media and, you know, there was a lot of feeling of mistrust of the press and that people weren't supporting women during the pandemic, and that was really, really popular. But media is not an industry that VC backs in the UK anyway. So venture capital is not designed for media. And I pivoted into A media company without really thinking, well, how are we going to make money from this? What's the fundraising cycle going to look like? Is it a business that I can fundraise for? Because when you start on a venture back train, it's very hard to get off that train and evolve into a normal business. You know, whenever I see you like with your titans of industry, of British industry, I'm like, these are great, normal, interesting, straightforward businesses. They're not, you know, a dog washing startup or something like that. Do you get what I mean? That's raised millions in venture because you can book an uber style person to come to your house and when you're in this world it's kind of gets. They like novelty more than predictable businesses. Does that make sense? So a media company was just not exciting enough for investors. So then.
- [27:44]
James Reed
So they're looking for gimmicks, you're saying?
- [27:47]
Sharmadine Reed
I think they're looking for disruptive models for existing businesses.
- [27:55]
James Reed
Right.
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Sharmadine Reed
But I actually believe now with my age and wisdom, that the original businesses are where I want to be.
- [28:07]
James Reed
Right.
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Sharmadine Reed
Not the disruption gimmick of it. Okay, does that make sense what I'm trying to say?
- [28:12]
James Reed
I think so, yeah. I'd like, I'd like to understand Stack World a bit more because you said it was a pivot from your original endeavor. Beauty stand.
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Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, stack.
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James Reed
Well just describe it. What does it do for its customers?
- [28:25]
Sharmadine Reed
So what the Stack World does is it allows women to get the knowledge and network to build their power.
- [28:31]
James Reed
It's a women's network.
- [28:32]
Sharmadine Reed
So it's women's network with events and meetups, but also a lot of content. So we interview a lot of women. I've interviewed so many hundreds of women about different things from fundraising to how to be a coo. And then we have that in a content library and that content libraries, I think really interesting and hugely valuable for like what would a women's media company look like if it was somewhere between the business press like a Financial Times, but a lifestyle press like Vogue, you know.
- [29:08]
James Reed
So where are you at with that now?
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Sharmadine Reed
So right now I'm trying to think about what the next evolution of the Stack World is. I really care about telling women's stories and I also, I'm thinking, okay, this is a thought in process, but as I said to you, I spend a lot of time thinking about the thing before launching it. My feeling right now, which you are not going to want to hear, James.
- [29:33]
James Reed
Go on.
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Sharmadine Reed
Is that I no longer want to tell women how to become leaders in business or how to find the corporate ladder or how to develop in their role. And the reason for that is that the gender equity gap has not changed. The pay gap's not changed, the leadership gaps not change. You know, still less than 10 of women are CEOs in public companies. The gender funding gap still at 2%. And these figures of held the same for like the last few decades, right? In some places they've got worse. So less women are being funded now for their businesses more than ever. So when I think about leadership, leadership is not something I want to talk to women about anymore. When I think about entrepreneurship, I'm no longer interested in telling women how to fundraise from venture capital. And my feeling about this is, remember I told you earlier about the layers of thought process. Where did I go wrong? You know, have compassion for myself and why did the system not serve me? I don't believe in teaching women how to perform in a system that doesn't serve them. So why teach women how to become a C suite leader at their company? Only for those women to then be ousted if they try and change, or not have proper maternity leave or not be able to breastfeed at work? It doesn't serve anyone. So the things that I'm thinking about more and more is a kind of corporate anarchy subversion. What does it mean to be independent and autonomous and have ownership rather than think about how can I perform in this kind of working world that was not designed for women or families, you.
- [31:18]
James Reed
Know, and it's corporate anarchy subversion. I'm interested. You got my attention. So, so what does that mean? I mean, so what are women going to do in this. In this space?
- [31:28]
Sharmadine Reed
Own things.
- [31:29]
James Reed
Own things? Yeah, start things.
- [31:30]
Sharmadine Reed
Start things and own things.
- [31:32]
James Reed
So more women entrepreneurs. More.
- [31:34]
Sharmadine Reed
More women entrepreneurs. But women entrepreneurs with a clear picture of how to design a life that works for them and their families. I feel like women entrepreneurs today are preoccupied with raising money and being accepted by the corporate world or receiving external validation from that corporate world, you know, And I think actually there's no shame in saying, do you know something? I'm gonna be a YouTuber. I'm gonna be a YouTuber. I'M gonna make a million a year. And that's gonna do me fine. That's it. I'm going to make greeting cards and I'm going to make 200 grand a year. And that's fine, because that's all I need. Do you get what I mean? I feel like we have had this picture. I say we as collective millennial women, we had this Picture from such a young age, you can be whatever you want to be. You can do whatever you want to do. And we worked really hard to try. And then as we got older, we realized we can't be what we want to be because no one's going to fund us and we can't be what we want to be because if I make it to be CEO of a company, probably going to get fired at the first hurdle, you know. So I just think this era that I grew up in, so I was born in 1984. It was a very Thatcher, Reagan, entrepreneurial, working girl, 80s, big, big business, power women, Oprah, Martha Stewart. I remember it, that was the era that I grew up in. And I believed I could do anything and be anybody. And then I moved to London and I realized I was black and I was poor and I was girl. I was like, okay, so now what? And I, you know, I've, I'm very proud of the work I've done. But I would say that from an emotional level, I definitely was working to kind of be upset by, yeah, very corporate working world. And now I just think so differently about how I want to build stuff. I. I'm calling this my season two. And what's also really boring is I feel like everyone goes through this when they turn 40, right? Like everyone comes of an age and then something un unlocks in their head. And for me, the unlock was I don't want to exhaust myself in order to have financial security. I don't think you should have to burn out to be able to provide for yourself and your family. And I don't think being a mother, and not just a mother, but being present in my friend and family unit should come at the cost of me being satisfied at work.
- [34:16]
James Reed
Well, I wish you well with this. I mean, I mean, it's obviously it's a journey you've been on and you've learned a lot and this is where you want to go next.
- [34:25]
Sharmadine Reed
And I feel like I'm gonna learn so much more because I think if you're a founder or an entrepreneur, you really, your identity so tied up in your work like you are your work. And I think every founder goes through their own hero's journey of, you know, untying themselves and their self worth to the success of a business. And I always think about, you know, we hold these icons of business up and no one ever talks about their failures or the things that they got wrong. It's really funny because this Love Mondays, I read Michael Bloomberg's biography and he's got a chapter called I love Mondays.
- [35:15]
James Reed
Good. I'm an admirer of Michael Bloomberg.
- [35:18]
Sharmadine Reed
I'm an admirer of Michael Bloomberg and when I read his biography, I felt so relieved that he started Bloomberg age 39. Like, people forget you're 39 and you start, you know, he had another business before.
- [35:34]
James Reed
Yeah, I know people have started businesses much older.
- [35:37]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, much older. Very successful and very successful. And every business before failed, you know. So I think the success by which which young people measure themselves right now because of their access to everyone on the Internet, is just the bars too high for young people. And I think if you are a young entrepreneur or even if you're just in your career working and you're young and you think, I'm not where I want to be, I just think, no, you're exactly where you should be. Like, you've got to go through the motions and do the steps and you've got to do it all to discover the truest version of you, you know?
- [36:16]
James Reed
Yes, I have a sense of that. So you've got. So from where you are now, though, the threshold of this landmark birthday. Sharma Z. I think your new business is actually called 39 BC.
- [36:28]
Sharmadine Reed
Exactly.
- [36:29]
James Reed
So am I onto something with that? So, yeah, tell us about that. That sounds very exciting. So you've got a new venture that's live in development.
- [36:36]
Sharmadine Reed
Definitely. So during this period of reflection, I was really thinking about what is my unique skill set, what do I enjoy doing? What are the industries I'm already known for? How can I make it easy for myself to go out the starting gate really fast? And I am alarmed that people still associate me with the beauty industry because I haven't been in it for so long. But that's what people love me for. And going back to this collective energy and mood, I was feeling at 39 years old that everyone was exhausted after the pandemic. They wanted rest, they wanted slowness, they wanted pleasure, time to themselves. All of these, like, words were coming to me. And I was thinking about how I have used spas, massages, beauty treatments, ancient bathing rituals as part of my healing journey. And I was like, I wonder how many other people use these things as an almost tool to get back to themselves. So 39 BC is based on ancient bathing, modern cleansing, and I chose the name for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was 39 when I thought about it. I wrote an essay called Call on your ancestors, which is in my book. And in that essay I talk about how we often, as women, forget our historical lineage, which helps Us feel noble and walk with our head held high. I was like, if you go for me again, as a black woman, most black people cannot trace more than four generations because of slavery. So I was like, okay, why don't I skip those four generations? Why don't I skip, like, 400 years and go back to, like, the 12th century, 11th century? Let's go back really far. Let's go back to, like, the first century B.C. i wonder what my ancestors were doing there, and how can I channel that queen energy rather than think about the version of me that I see in the media today? So I wrote this essay, call on your ancestors, and I had a birthday party for my 39th birthday where I told everybody to dress as their ancestor goddess. All of these women came. Rosie came.
- [38:59]
James Reed
Yeah, that's my daughter.
- [39:01]
Sharmadine Reed
Yes, Rosie came, and she created these Maltese goddess earrings, which is very beautiful. And it was just an energetic moment. And I was like, this is it. So 39 B.C. what happened? Well, according to the historians, nothing much.
- [39:20]
James Reed
Because in the year.
- [39:21]
Sharmadine Reed
In the year 39.
- [39:22]
James Reed
So you're really visualizing this.
- [39:24]
Sharmadine Reed
Oh, big time. I told you, I'm a Gemini. I'm obsess. I've read, like, every. Okay, so you know about 39 BC ask me anything. So basically, in 39 BC, according to the historians, nothing much happened. And the reason is because history tends to record wars, buildings, you know, very masculine energy things. But if you know the story of Anthony and Cleopatra and Octavian, this, these three people, the drama of the 14 years of their saga, effectively determine so much about the world we live today. Because you wouldn't have the Roman Empire in the way it is now if that, you know, if Cleopatra and Anthony weren't defeated. Sorry, I'm skipping over some stuff.
- [40:13]
James Reed
I know more about this than I do. So come on, you better tell us. We all know who Cleopatra is and Anthony.
- [40:20]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, but you think you know, right?
- [40:22]
James Reed
Yeah. It's a name. It's a name we know. So come on.
- [40:25]
Sharmadine Reed
It's a name we know. So my middle name is Alexandria. So since I was a child, I've always known about Cleopatra. Alexandria, the great library of Alexandria. I've always been curious about this. Cleopatra is a woman who's been misunderstood many times. You know, P painted as this harlot seductress, but in effect, she was a scholar, a diplomat. She was just so clever. Her political skills were insane. So in 40 BC, Mark Anthony gets her pregnant. They're in love. She's pregnant with twins.
- [41:00]
James Reed
He's a Roman.
- [41:01]
Sharmadine Reed
He's a Roman, she's an Egyptian. She is a Greek Macedonian queen.
- [41:06]
James Reed
Okay, so she's not Egyptian.
- [41:08]
Sharmadine Reed
The Greeks ruled Egypt for about 300 years. She was the last pharaoh. Right, so Mark Anthony's basically a middle class Roman soldier and he's coming to this queen, right, needs with his begging bowl out because he needs their money to fight his wars. The Parthian war. Right. I can't believe I'm telling you this.
- [41:31]
James Reed
This is a new, a new chapter. Learning a lot.
- [41:35]
Sharmadine Reed
Come on. The way that I see it is she is a queen goddess. She's Isis incarnate. And this middle class Roman soldier comes to her with a begging bowl. But he's attractive, he's charming. They fall in love, you know, they have an affair. She gets pregnant, he leaves, goes back to Athens to marry a Roman woman, Octavian's sister, for politics she is, gives birth to these twins. And in 39 BC, she's a single mom of three children. Her first baby daddy is Julius Caesar. Can you imagine your two baby daddies being Julie Caesar?
- [42:11]
James Reed
I've never had Julius Caesar described by that, but I like it. I like it. Like it. Yeah. I like where this is going, but.
- [42:18]
Sharmadine Reed
This is how I'm going to tell it. So what do you do when you are a single, powerful single mother?
- [42:24]
James Reed
Question. What do you do?
- [42:25]
Sharmadine Reed
You get to work.
- [42:27]
James Reed
You get to work.
- [42:27]
Sharmadine Reed
What do single moms do? You know something your father told me.
- [42:32]
James Reed
Yeah. Alec Reed.
- [42:33]
Sharmadine Reed
Alec.
- [42:34]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [42:34]
Sharmadine Reed
He told me when he started, he always hired women and moms because he knew they would work. When you are a mother, you get to work. When you have responsibility, you get to work. And if you have no one to rely on you, you get to work. So Cleopatra spent those three years after 39 B.C. making Egypt one of the most wealthiest places in the world. So this is really my process, my business process, which people do not associate as a business process. But when I start a business, I think there are only so many differentiators you can have if you're not building true innovation. At the end of the day, it's soap and perfume, it's a body wash, it's a face wash, it's a body lotion. But where you stand out, where I believe I stand out, is the storytelling, like how you create your unique point of view on the product you're trying to sell. So I am building a product line of bathing and perfume and ritual, you know, but what I'm really doing is retelling historical narratives in a way that I think empowers and enlists Women and people of color in a way they haven't been before. Does that make sense?
- [43:54]
James Reed
Yeah, I think it's more then I think it's a brilliant idea.
- [43:58]
Sharmadine Reed
So we launch later on this year.
- [43:59]
James Reed
These are about to come out for Christmas.
- [44:01]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, Fantastic. I'm really excited. And even now where would you be.
- [44:05]
James Reed
Able to buy them? So people listening can go 39-bc.com 39-bc.com yeah.
- [44:13]
Sharmadine Reed
And then hopefully I'll secure some wholesalers, some department stores and boutiques and I, I just, I can't wait. James, I'm so excited. The fun, the launching is the fun bit.
- [44:24]
James Reed
So when are you going to do some event or something? What, how do you, how do you let the world know? Okay, so I mean you've obviously got a great story. I can see that ship with the red sails.
- [44:33]
Sharmadine Reed
Can you see it in your head?
- [44:35]
James Reed
And I think I want some of these products.
- [44:36]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, right. To feel.
- [44:38]
James Reed
Yeah.
- [44:38]
Sharmadine Reed
So immerse yourself.
- [44:40]
James Reed
How are you going to get that message out there more widely? I mean obviously you're talking to me.
- [44:44]
Sharmadine Reed
But yeah, of course. So. And you're the first person I've told, by the way.
- [44:47]
James Reed
Fantastic. So this is an exclusive. Fantastic.
- [44:52]
Sharmadine Reed
So my launch strategy for my businesses tends to follow the same sort of playbook and what I would draw listeners to do is to think about what their playbook is to kind of launch and announce things because for everyone it's different based on the skills and resources and network that they have. I would say that in the early days of thinking about this new business, I had huge amounts of anxiety looking at the market and thinking, oh my goodness, I need to be a celebrity founder. And making content on Instagram and doing big events and having a giant lipstick in the middle of the room, you know, for Instagrammable photos. And it was sending me into a complete. His was. And I was like, actually just breathe, relax. What do you do that's unique to you? So a big part of my launch strategy is to bring customers on the journey with me. So I don't believe in wait lists or marketing gimmicks like that because I'm the kind of customer where if I want something and I see it, I want to buy it there and then I don't want to be on a wait list. Plus the algorithm won't show it me again, so I'll forget about it. So my plan is to launch the website for pre order so the minute. And my co founder still questions this, but I tell him every time the minute the website launches, you can shop it. The minute I announce it it publicly, you can pay me for it. Why waste any air telling someone about my brand when they can't buy it yet? You know what I mean?
- [46:32]
James Reed
Yes.
- [46:33]
Sharmadine Reed
So the way it will be is I'll launch the website, you will be able to pay, put your credit card in and buy it, and it will be delivered at Christmas, which is kind of crazy because it's six months away. Right? During that six months, anyone who's paid and signed up, I'm going to send them regular updates. Me in the factory, you know, me working with the designers. So taking someone on the journey of your launch is such an important way to get them invested. And I learned that with my nail salon. So back before Instagram existed, I used to post on Facebook. Got the keys, painting the floor, you know, the desks are coming in on.
- [47:13]
James Reed
The journey with you.
- [47:14]
Sharmadine Reed
They're fully on the journey. And there's something about bringing people on the journey where they feel that they're invested in it.
- [47:21]
James Reed
You're creating a community again, in a way.
- [47:22]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah. I wouldn't say it's a community because it's still an audience and a lot of people call their audience a community, but it's not. To me, the definition of a community is they should be able to self reference without you and they should be able to connect without you. So right now I'm just a megaphone with my email list and my audience. As it builds up, I will do gifting to people that I think represent the brand. Now everyone's obsessed with influencer gifting and of course that will be part of the strategy, but really the gifting, like, I've made a list of ceramicists who I think embody the spirit of that ancient world. Musicians, you know, artists, designers. It's all these people who I meet. Like I met with Thomas Heatherwick the other day. Turns out he's very into bathing. Add him to the list. Do you get what I mean? He's not going to post it on Instagram, but it's important for somebody like that to understand and feel connected to the brand journey. Then I'm going to make a book, a journal of all of this research. So there'll be articles like how do you worship at the temple of ISIS today? By a Egyptologist academic that I'm trying to secure for the. For the book. But there'll also be a comic strip. These are things, these are ideas I have that will be a journal to launch this first collection. And I made a playlist on Spotify. So I'm gonna print the record covers of the playlist and it just goes on and on and on. And it's like the way my mind works is the product is just the product. Let me tell the story of what it.
- [49:03]
James Reed
But, you know, I absolutely know that this brand, which I haven't seen, is called 39 BC. From what everything you have said to me, there's no way I'm going to forget.
- [49:12]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah. Yes.
- [49:13]
James Reed
So, you know, and that will, I'm sure, work for many, many other customers and potential customers.
- [49:18]
Sharmadine Reed
So I hope so.
- [49:19]
James Reed
So. Interesting. Well, I wish you huge success with that. But you told me earlier, before you sat down, that you had three other big projects going, but that was it. Do you want to tell me what they are? Because I suspect you might, you know, end up doing more. But let's hear about these.
- [49:33]
Sharmadine Reed
I'm not going to do any more. I think that diversifying your not only revenue streams, but your interest is really important if you're a founder or someone who's just got a lot of energy, hyperactive, likes working productive, because it means that I'm not emotionally putting all my eggs in one basket. You know what I mean? Yes, I think that's really important because with the beauty brand, for example, 39 BC, once you've done the product, you have to wait. There's a lot of waiting around, you know, for samples and shipping and all of this. Other projects are. So I have the stack world. I have 39 BC. I then am writing a TV show about female founders, about what the experience is like to raise money and, you know, be a woman of color.
- [50:26]
James Reed
This is the next succession.
- [50:29]
Sharmadine Reed
I hope so.
- [50:30]
James Reed
So, so that's. So that. Is that sort of autobiographical or.
- [50:33]
Sharmadine Reed
I would say it's loosely based on me and my friends, but it's really me absorbing thousands of stories over close to 20 years of working with women and knowing all the various ways that we still have inequity when it comes to workplace situational finance. And I think that's what's really interesting to me. It's like, what are the bigger themes that I'm trying to tell here? Yes, it's going to look like. Like Sex and the City meets Silicon Valley, but actually I can see that working.
- [51:10]
James Reed
So that's. But that's a big deal, right?
- [51:13]
Sharmadine Reed
It is, but I love new challenges and it's been really hard and I've been working on it for a couple of years now. So, you know, it's. I've been thinking about it and talking about it. And interviewing people about it. And then the final thing I'm working on is a new book proposal about some of the theories that I've been thinking about women and work and that's it.
- [51:36]
James Reed
You also mentioned that you had a. A renewed interest in your home, Wolverhampton.
- [51:42]
Sharmadine Reed
And you, you not renewed. It's always been, it's always been there.
- [51:46]
James Reed
But you wanted to do something about its current situation or if you could.
- [51:51]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah.
- [51:52]
James Reed
Describe what your feelings are and what that is.
- [51:55]
Sharmadine Reed
I think, and I feel like you understand this and also live this, that as entrepreneurs or business leaders we have a responsibility to society with what we do. And designing a workplace or designing a culture around work is such a privilege, I think. And like, you know, in the small forays that I've had with it I've been like, wow, I can just write a paternity leave in or I can change the times that people have got to work and have this power. And I've always been fascinated by industry and big business and I'm a fan of history, if you can't tell.
- [52:35]
James Reed
Yes.
- [52:36]
Sharmadine Reed
And I always think about all the various industrial revolutions and how they've impacted the world and particularly like where I grew up. So Wolverhampton was a traditional, you know, it's been been around for a very long time, Victorian times. It really took off with the wool trade and all different types of trade came through all the Hampton and then in the sea. I can't remember what period but our main factory, Goodyear factory was like I remember the center of the town, it felt very Springfield, you know, like Mr. Burns's plan to where everybody worked there. Like all my family worked at Goodyear's factory. And then when Good Use factory closed down, I just remember this kind of loss to the city and a sadness which I feel like so many cities and towns around the world can identify with which is an industry closes, whether it's coal mining, whether it's a factory, you know, whether it's a ceramics plan. And then all of a sudden no one knows what to do. And I've always in the back of my mind thought what is the answer? What is the solution? Because I've seen it firsthand, like I lived with my uncle at my grandparents house who lost his job at Goodies and he liter know what to do. Too old to retrain. I'm sure you've heard this time and time. It's like what do I do now? So with Wolverhampton I've left it and come back like several times over the last few decades and I'm there Now, and I love it. And I keep thinking we are in such a rapid era of industry right now, with everyone going from talking about STEM to now specifically AI, to like, what is the future of work is always a conversation that people are having. And the way that I see it is that we don't, right now, the uk, have a collective creative vision for what this country is. We don't have a thing that people feel that can be proud of. In a way that I felt as a teenager, I could immerse myself in brain brick, pop brick culture, Brit film, Brit fashion, Brit music. We just don't have it. And right now, you know, the higher ups are always obsessed with tech and AI, but they're forgetting, I feel, the creative industries on a massive scale. And the creative industries are what attracts money and talent, which then becomes the corporate industries. It's like any classic gentrification, you know, you have it from Dalston to Williamsburg, the artists live there, first they make the place cool and then the big developers come in and we don't even have that as a country. So I've been thinking, if I was town planner of Wolverhampton, what would I be trying to do to attract an industry? What would the industry be? How would you design the town to facilitate that industry? And that's what I go to bed thinking about. James, that's a good question.
- [55:41]
James Reed
I mean, that's. That you make a good case. I mean, that was interesting, because for the country as a whole, and then for each city, or for each city.
- [55:50]
Sharmadine Reed
It'S almost like what I think the US has done so brilliantly is certain geographical regions are branded for certain industries. So if you want to be in the entertainment industry, you go to Hollywood. And bear in mind, it's called Hollywood, it's not called LA or just California. You go Hollywood and then LA and then California. If you want to be in tech, you go to Silicon Valley. It's not a real place, you know, it's like a. It's a collection of streets, it's neighborhoods, and then it's the city of San Francisco. Do you get what I mean? And all the Bay Area, you'll. You'll hear these phrases. What's our version? We don't have that. If you wanted to work in tv, do you remember they have a media city?
- [56:39]
James Reed
Where is that?
- [56:40]
Sharmadine Reed
See, no one knows.
- [56:42]
James Reed
It used to be in Shepherd's Bush, where the BBC.
- [56:45]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, well, tried to build a media city in Manchester and, you know, I've been reading about it later.
- [56:51]
James Reed
That's very interesting that. That's the sort of clusters of expertise.
- [56:54]
Sharmadine Reed
Clusters of expertise. People forget that proximity is so important for creativity. Creativity and movements happen throughout history with physical locations. Everything from, as I said before, the Library of Alexandria, you know, the Library of Alexandria was created and philosophers from all over the world live there. They, they hung out there, they lived there, they learned, ideas were passed across. And I just feel like even when you think about modernism or futurism, you think about all those movements, they have jazz, jazz happens because you sit around jamming with people. And I just feel like we're entering an era where people are forgetting creativity number one, and its role in business. Close proximity number two, coming to work, coming to the city, you know, being near people physically. And I think branding and how we brand a town, a city, a country has been completely left. I don't know what the brand of Britain is right now.
- [57:58]
James Reed
No, I think that's a really good point. And I think someone should give you a call and get you involved because I think that's exactly what we should be trying to do. When I was thinking about Margate, you know, Rosie, my daughter lives in Margate, which Tracy Emin and other artists have really put on the map huge, big time.
- [58:16]
Sharmadine Reed
You know, to me, Margate is such an interesting and successful case study for cluster of expertise branding, a place, the types of institutions that need to be there. Because I think the tape being in Margate elevated it from being, you know, a cluster of artists who, where would they show? And it's a combination of like private public institutions with ground level organizations all working together to like decide what this, this place is like, this place making is. And what I feel right now when you say you think someone should give me a call, I've been in those rooms.
- [58:58]
James Reed
Yes, I've gone. And what happened? Nothing.
- [59:01]
Sharmadine Reed
And no one cares that they want quick fixes, they want sound bites and they want things they can put in a press release and that's it. And also the problem with politics is you never know how long someone's going to be in their seat. So you. These projects take decades.
- [59:18]
James Reed
Like there have been nine Prime Ministers since I became CEO.
- [59:22]
Sharmadine Reed
No.
- [59:22]
James Reed
Yeah, to just illustrate your point.
- [59:24]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah. And it's like you, you think about place making, it can take 10 years, 20 years for a place to become a place.
- [59:31]
James Reed
So it's up to business to do that, isn't it? Up to us entrepreneurs, the right kind.
- [59:36]
Sharmadine Reed
Of business, not the ones who are purely extractive. I always think, how can you build profit with purpose? Like I do believe in building profitable Companies, you know.
- [59:49]
James Reed
Well, I've got a book coming out later. Absolutely, yeah. I hope you like the ideas that it contains.
- [59:56]
Sharmadine Reed
I'm sure I will.
- [59:57]
James Reed
But like. But that. That sort of point about create. Making places into destination, they're very good at. In Ireland, interestingly, where I like to go on holiday, a place called Dingle. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's only a small town, but it's got masses of music and they have lots of different weekends that are themed. Food festival, arts festival. And people go in.
- [60:17]
Sharmadine Reed
People go, yeah, they enjoy. Do people live and work there? Yes, because I think that's important, the right balance of tourism versus residents as well. Because I see this in Jamaica, which is where I'm from, it's like, how do you make Jamaica a place where people want to live and work as well as want to holiday? Because otherwise it's still just extractive, you know, and then you have seasons where people have to, you know, they can't rely on steady income because it's a seasonal.
- [60:48]
James Reed
Because they're all involved in tourism.
- [60:50]
Sharmadine Reed
Exactly.
- [60:50]
James Reed
So how's that situation now? Is that improving?
- [60:53]
Sharmadine Reed
I haven't. I'm going next month, birthday and I'll update you. I can't wait.
- [60:57]
James Reed
Happy birthday.
- [60:58]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah. I love it so much, but I do, I just. I think that you run a business and you make money and there's only so many handbags you can buy and then what do you do? Yeah, you know, there's only so many properties you can buy. There's only so many things you can buy and then it starts to just. It's not. It doesn't make you feel good.
- [61:23]
James Reed
You've got to do something else.
- [61:25]
Sharmadine Reed
Yeah, you gotta do something else. And I think doing purpose, doing something with purpose, but doing something that genuinely impacts a community for more than one generation. Like, I will be pleased with myself if I do something that has a general multi generational impact. That would make me quite happy. I feel like in a weird way, my nail salon has sort of done that because I still get girls. I get girls come up to me now, who said, I came when I was 13 and now I'm in work, my first job and I was so inspired by what you did. And that makes me. That's the best feedback I could get. Do you know what I mean? I made something and somebody saw it and it made them think differently about themselves and their place in the world. That, to me, is my greatest satisfaction.
- [62:18]
James Reed
Well, multi generational impact is a big, powerful ambition and I think that's a good place to conclude our conversation, Sharmadine, which I have to say I've enjoyed hugely and learned a lot. So thank you so much for coming to talk to me. And I, I asked two questions at the end that I ask everybody, which I'm going to ask you now. And the first one is what gets you up on a Monday morning?
- [62:41]
Sharmadine Reed
I have to play a Beyonce song to get me out of bed.
- [62:46]
James Reed
Which one?
- [62:47]
Sharmadine Reed
Church Girl.
- [62:48]
James Reed
It's called so that's what gets you up.
- [62:50]
Sharmadine Reed
So I play Beyonce Church girl and it gets me out of bed, but also the sun. I sleep with the curtains open and I'm very much a circadian rhythm type of person. So the beautiful sunrise gets me out of bed. And then also if I'm really struggling competition, I lie in bed and I think someone's working and I'm not. I better go to work, honey.
- [63:15]
James Reed
So you don't want them to get ahead. Yes. I remember the athlete, Daily Thompson. Brilliant, brilliant athlete and he was decathlete and he won the gold medal and he had a great rival who I think was Joe Moment. And, and this chap said I train every day of the year apart from Christmas Day. Daily Thompson said I train every day of the year including Christmas day. That was great. So you remind me of him.
- [63:40]
Sharmadine Reed
It's a really good motivator to be honest. I think someone else is working and Omna, I can't let them get ahead.
- [63:46]
James Reed
So that's good. And, and then my last question, which is a question from my interview book, why you is where do you see yourself in five years time?
- [63:53]
Sharmadine Reed
Time. 45 years old, I see myself with a building that houses all of my different businesses and interests that is also open to the public, some kind of institution, working with my incredible CEO of my beauty brand, doing global launches and my TV show is in production.
- [64:27]
James Reed
That's all very exciting. You'll be 45 years old but being known for 39 BC so I look forward to seeing that.
- [64:35]
Sharmadine Reed
I feel really weird saying that out in public actually. That's so funny.
- [64:38]
James Reed
But it's good. It's envisioning it and it sounds really exciting.
- [64:43]
Sharmadine Reed
You're gonna have to play this back.
- [64:44]
James Reed
Well, we'll come back and talk again in five years time. You can tell me all about exactly. Hey, thanks for coming in.
- [64:49]
Sharmadine Reed
Thank you for having me. This was so fun.
- [64:51]
James Reed
I enjoyed it too. Thanks Sharmini.
- [64:53]
Sharmadine Reed
Thank you.
- [64:55]
James Reed
Thank you Sharma Deen for joining me on All About Business. I'm your host James Reid, chairman and CEO of Reed, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more about Reid or Sharma. Dean, all links are in the show notes. See you next time.