4. This is how you get millions of followers (whilst remaining authentic) | OtherVoices

Summary

Episode Summary: "This is how you get millions of followers (whilst remaining authentic)" | OtherVoices

Podcast Information:

• Title: James Reed: All About Business
• Host: James Reed CBE, Chairman and CEO of Reed Group
• Guests: Molly King and Philip King, founders of Ireland's Other Voices Festival
• Release Date: November 25, 2024
• Episode Focus: Strategies to build an authentic brand while amassing millions of followers, drawing from the Kings' experience with the Other Voices Festival.

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Introduction to Guests and Their Journey

James Reed opens the episode by introducing Molly and Philip King, highlighting their foundational role in establishing Ireland's Other Voices Festival. Originating from a modest setting in a small church in Dingle, the festival has burgeoned over two decades into a globally recognized event with millions of viewers annually. Reed emphasizes the unique perspective the Kings bring as a multi-generational family business thriving in the competitive landscape of modern branding and social media.

Working as a Family Business

James Reed delves into the dynamics of running a family enterprise, posing the question, “What’s it like working as a family?” to which Molly King responds candidly:

"I think it's always been that way, so it doesn't feel like anything other than completely normal to me." [02:06]

Molly elaborates on her upbringing within her parents' production company, immersed in the creative and social aspects of the business from a young age. This environment fostered her passion and commitment, leading her to actively participate and eventually take leadership roles within the festival.

Philip King echoes the sentiment, with Nuala O'Connor, Philip’s spouse, adding:

"It's absolutely wonderful to work together in this family way. It seemed very natural." [03:50]

Their seamless collaboration underscores the strength and cohesion that family ties can bring to a business venture.

Origins and Evolution of Other Voices Festival

Nuala O'Connor paints a vivid picture of the festival's origins:

"Imagine sitting at the most westerly tip of the Dingle Peninsula... It is Irish speaking, which is hugely important because it is a cultural repository." [04:17]

The festival began modestly in a small church, broadcasting local talent to a global audience. With persistence and a clear vision, the Kings transformed Other Voices from a local event into a significant cultural phenomenon, featuring renowned artists like Kate Tempest, Arlo Parks, and the late Amy Winehouse.

Building an Authentic Brand in a Digital Age

A significant portion of the discussion centers around maintaining authenticity while scaling the brand. Molly King recounts her pivotal role in rebranding Other Voices a decade ago:

"We spent months thinking about rebranding... It wasn't as if they were dismissive of it. It just hadn't necessarily occurred to you, I don't think." [13:53]

Her initiative to modernize the festival's aesthetic was instrumental in aligning the brand's visual identity with the evolving digital landscape, ensuring relevance and appeal to a broader, more contemporary audience.

Nuala emphasizes the importance of passion, ideas, and energy in sustaining the business:

"Success is as easy as pie. P for passion, I for ideas, and E for energy." [17:40]

This philosophy underscores the intrinsic values that drive the festival's ongoing success and its ability to resonate authentically with audiences.

Navigating Challenges and Embracing Growth

The Kings candidly discuss the challenges faced in growing the festival, from initial low attendance to achieving sold-out events. Molly reflects on the gradual recognition and support the festival garnered over the years:

"A few things happened. We started putting on all these shows. More people came naturally... it became a thing that people paid attention to." [19:37]

They also touch upon adapting to unforeseen circumstances, such as the COVID-19 pandemic, which necessitated a swift pivot to digital formats. Nuala shares how the festival leveraged government support to create "Other Voices, Courage," a digital series that maintained engagement and provided solace during isolation:

"We suggested that we would do a series called Other Voices, Courage. And we did 19 of them... It was sensational." [25:00]

Spotting and Nurturing Talent

A recurring theme is the festival's role in discovering and nurturing emerging artists. Nuala highlights their adeptness at identifying talent early on:

"Our job really is... talent spotting to some degree, having a sense of somebody who might be on their way somewhere." [30:38]

Molly adds that building long-term relationships with artists ensures a continuous influx of fresh and established talent, enhancing the festival's reputation and appeal.

Expanding Horizons: Ireland's Edge Conference

In addition to the festival, the Kings run Ireland's Edge Conference, which blends STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) with the arts. Molly explains the vision behind this initiative:

"Ireland's Edge becomes a kind of home to discuss the broadest topics... to imagine a better future for ourselves, we have to become kind of profoundly collaborative." [39:04]

By fostering interdisciplinary conversations, the conference aims to address pressing societal issues through a collaborative and innovative lens.

Sustaining the Vision for the Future

When asked about their future aspirations, both Molly and Nuala express a commitment to sustaining and growing their initiatives:

Molly envisions continuing her work within Ireland, while Nuala hopes for the festival's enduring success under the capable leadership of Molly and the family:

"I would hope that other voices will be secure and growing and developing in the capable hands of Molly and the Other Voices family." [45:00]

Closing Thoughts and Inspirational Message

James Reed concludes the episode by commending the Kings for their authentic approach to brand building and audience engagement. He encapsulates their philosophy with a memorable analogy inspired by the Irish phrase for "hare’s corner," emphasizing the importance of preserving unique spaces for creativity and inspiration.

"It's our message, I think. Thank you so much, both of you. I love that. I think everyone should have a hare's corner." [46:20]

Reed encourages listeners to engage with the Other Voices Festival, highlighting its unique blend of tradition and modernity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Molly King on family business dynamics: "I think it's always been that way, so it doesn't feel like anything other than completely normal to me." [02:06]
• Nuala O'Connor on passion, ideas, and energy: "Success is as easy as pie. P for passion, I for ideas, and E for energy." [17:40]
• Molly King on rebranding: "We spent months thinking about rebranding... It wasn't as if they were dismissive of it. It just hadn't necessarily occurred to you, I don't think." [13:53]
• Nuala O'Connor on talent spotting: "Our job really is... talent spotting to some degree, having a sense of somebody who might be on their way somewhere." [30:38]
• Closing message on "hare's corner": "It's our message, I think. Thank you so much, both of you. I love that. I think everyone should have a hare's corner." [46:20]

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This episode of "All About Business" offers invaluable insights into building a genuine brand presence in an overcrowded digital landscape. Through the Kings' experiences, listeners gain a deeper understanding of maintaining authenticity, fostering talent, and adapting to changing circumstances—all while preserving the core values that define their success.

Transcript

[James Reed]

Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business, management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests who bootstrapped companies, masterminded investment models, or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field, and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture.

[Philip King]

With consumers now bombarded with content, cutting through the noise is harder than ever. Without an engaging brand that speaks to a clear audience, your business will get ignored. So how can you make sure your brand stands out and holds people's attention while staying true to your vision? Joining me today on All About Business are Molly and Philip King. Philip and his wife Nuala O'Connor started Ireland's other Voices Festival at a tiny church in Dingle. Now, two decades later, their daughter Molly is head of development. And the festival has millions of viewers every year. It's hosted some of the biggest names in music, including Kate Tempest, Arlo Parks and Amy Winehouse. Despite its success, the festival returns to that very same church in Dingle every year while broadcasting to viewers across the world, which makes Molly and Philip the perfect guests to talk to us about building an authentic brand with millions of followers.

[James Reed]

Molly, Philip, thank you so much for joining me today. You're our first double act on All About Business. And I should explain to our listeners and viewers that's because you're a family business. We got two generations of kings on the sofa this afternoon. What's it like working as a, as a family? If that's the right way of saying kick us off, though.

[Molly King]

I think it's, it's always been that way, so it doesn't feel like anything other than completely normal to me. I don't know, you might, you might.

[James Reed]

I feel I put you on the spot somewhere, but. Yeah, so you've, you've always worked together for you? Oh, for me, growing up in the family, that's.

[Molly King]

Yeah. So my dad, Philip, and my mother, Nula, they run a production company and so they've made a lot of films, run events, and me and my two sisters were always around that in some way, shape or form. So brought to sets, brought to studios, musicians in the house. It was fantastic upbringing. So I was always very taken with that. It was magnetic for me. So I did my level best to become like a professional hanger on. I just tailed dad around and I got him to agree on multiple occasions to take me out of school to go and make documentaries when I was what, 10, 11? So maybe not great for the Department of Education, but great for me. And I've just been doing that ever since in different capacities. But, I mean, obviously Philip will have a different perspective. But for me, the world that he was inhabiting was so attractive to me in terms of how social it was, the creativity around it, the excitement around us, the kind of teamwork elements. And I. Yeah, I just wanted to be there all the time. And so I kind of felt quite sure that I would make my way back there at some point.

[James Reed]

So what about you, Philip? What's your perspective on this? I think it's wonderful to work together in this way.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Well, I think it's absolutely wonderful to work together in this family way. It seemed very natural. As Molly said, Noulin and myself had been involved from very, very early on in our lives with music, art, culture, and capturing that and capturing a sense of our own country, what Ireland was like, and seeing it through the lens of culture.

[James Reed]

Well, a universal language of music. I mean, everyone, I think, loves music of some sort or another. And it certainly is a great unifier, brings people together. So you. You've created this wonderful festival. Molly's already referred to it Other Voices. And you run this together as a family. Could you just describe it to our listeners? Tell us a little bit about the place, the people. Why did you do it and what is it, the Other Voices?

[Nuala O'Connor]

Well, where we live, if you can close your eyes and imagine it. And I often do this on the radio program. I'm sitting at home on the most westerly tip of the Dingle Peninsula, right at the edge of Europe. And, you know, I think John F. Kennedy, when he visited Galway, said, you know, if the day were clear enough and your eyes were strong enough and you were looking west, you would see Boston, Massachusetts. So if you stood on the top of, and you know this mountain very well, of Mount Eagle, and you looked out west, you know, the next landmass after the Blasphemy Islands is America. So if you can imagine this place, it is Irish speaking, which is hugely important because it is a cultural repository, if you like. It is a cultural resource in the place the musicians play to put the rhythm under the dancer's foot. People speak the language clearly and beautifully still, even though it is weak and I would say in some sort of danger. But the thing that attracted Newland, myself to this place was that I speak the language. It was the culture that drew me there and brought me there and keeps me there. Really. The topography of the place is very beautiful. It's wild and Windswept in winter. And naturally, when we were setting up our business, when we moved from Dublin with the triplets, we said, well, what are we going to do now, right in this place? We said, we did the question, really good question. All of the business people listening say, God, your man's mad. What's he doing in this wild, wonderful place? But how would you set up a business? So there was this little church and again, if you can imagine, the main street of a small town in the west of Ireland is an old church of Ireland. And there were some bits and pieces of music happening in the church from time to time. And one thing led to another and as I said, we were in the era of the dial up telephone. Myself and Glenn Hans are the musician that many of you might know and some others made a list and we made a list of musicians that we thought we could invite to come to West Kerry. And this doesn't sound like a sort of great business idea yet, you know, so. So we invited a whole load of musicians to come and they came and they played and so where do we get the money to do this? I rang RTE again, the public service broadcaster in Ireland, and I said, can you give me some money? I want to take a photograph and film these things. And, you know, they said, you've been very successful doing other things, but maybe we've no money, no money this year. And then I got a phone call on about the 5th of November from a guy that I knew and said, we found a bit of money down the back of the sofa that we have to spend before Christmas and you can have it. So they gave us this little lump of money and this television series, as it was, was born in this place. And in the 23 years that have elapsed since, it has grown to what it is today. But I remember when Molly was small, going up and down the main street with Dingle saying, come in, come in, come in, sit down. We couldn't get people to come in and sit down. They were saying, who's playing in there? We don't know any of them. We don't know any of them. It took quite a few years, quite a few years.

[James Reed]

That's unimaginable now having been the queues of people. No one can get tickets, Everyone wants to go. So it really began very modestly, very modestly.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Most things do, I guess, and very simply and I think in the work that we do, privileged to be around some remarkably creative people who create intellectual property. And that's a business in itself. But to go back to the core element of the piece itself. It's dealing what it feels like to be alive. What sort of solace and succor and motivation do you need to get up every day and to go to work and to go about your daily life? And I think what the culture piece does is it gives people that sensibility. And I would say that it's more important now than ever as worlds become a little bit more virtual, a little bit more augmented and a little bit more artificial. That when we find ourselves in the company of people where it's tactile, tangible, visceral, that that is a different quality. And I think trying to balance out the loneliness, let's say, of a digital life with the warmth of the real tactile, tangible thing is a fantastic thing. And I think that that's what people need to get them up in the morning and to give them the sense of purpose to go about what it is that they do.

[James Reed]

Well, that's what I'm thinking, listening to you both, really. This is your family purpose, isn't it? To bring that to people. Is that fair? I mean, you do this together.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yes, we are doing that together. And Molly has learned a complete skill set in terms of what is needed to go about doing that. So you might say, well, what is it that you do? And again, I'll refer to Nuala, who's the brains of the operation, really? Truly, truly, truly.

[James Reed]

So where does that leave you to then?

[Molly King]

We are humble.

[Nuala O'Connor]

We're humble and we listen very carefully. But as you were saying, like somebody asked Nuala once, what is it that you do? So if you said to us, what do you do?

[James Reed]

Oh, good question.

[Nuala O'Connor]

And what Nuala said very succinctly was we celebrate what's about to happen and we capture what's about to disappear. And I would say that that is the core mission of what the South Wind Blows Enterprise is about and can only happen if you win trust. And I think many relationships are predicated on that trust that the artist trusts you. So when we've worked with a litany of various different people, like whether it's U2 or Elvis Costello, or whether it's a non known traditional musician, and almost more importantly, if it's somebody who's sort of unknown to the public, that they trust you and they invite you into their home and they sit at the kitchen table and they take out an instrument and they begin to play, the privilege of that exchange and the trust that's inherent in allowing somebody to capture that, to film that to photograph that and to hold it in store is hugely, hugely important. So in our work, that piece is the sine qua non, really, of enabling us to do what we do in the large scale of things. I guess what I'm saying is that the privilege to be doing this work and to enter that world of relationship, trusting relationship, and to photograph the artistic life of a country, which is what we've been doing for 30 years and more, is the heart of the matter.

[Philip King]

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[James Reed]

So I can hear the passion and conviction about what you do and your love for that. But how do you divide responsibilities? Yeah. As a family enterprise, how do you. What. What's your focus? Molly? And then yours, Philip? Primarily.

[Molly King]

Yeah. I mean, I suppose my. Like, my title is head of development, so I develop all new projects and then I suppose specifically other voices. This festival and TV show that we do, I would have been responsible for the rebrand of it, the aesthetic of it, bringing in sponsors, partners, developing it in terms of how big it is musically, how many shows we have. At a certain point, we had reached kind of a large capacity in terms of people were coming down. And I felt kind of frustrated that the branding, the logo, the aesthetic of other voices, I felt it didn't necessarily match with the experience that everyone was having on the ground. I didn't feel it was very contemporary. I didn't think it expressed who we were. So then I started annoying dad about this around the dinner table.

[James Reed]

So was he the creator of the less contemporary version?

[Molly King]

No, I don't even know who the creator. It was more like we didn't have a creator of it.

[James Reed]

Must have come from somewhere.

[Molly King]

There is a poster of one of our old events that I dig up sometimes to.

[James Reed]

Brands evolved. I mean, that's okay.

[Molly King]

Yeah, yeah. And I say this is what it used to look like. And it's kind of like clip art. I don't know who made it. So there was, in a way, it was more like trying to get people to understand in the company that what you look like, particularly on social media or on television or on YouTube, is crucial to how you are perceived. And it sounds maybe slightly superficial, but it's not. And so we did it. We kind of sat down and I spent months thinking about rebranding and, you know, convincing Mum and Dad to let us. To let me do it. And then I convinced him to let us rebrand Southern Blows logo, which I used to hate and now I love. But it was kind of. It took. It was more just that they were taken up with producing films, directing films, writing them, putting on events. And it wasn't as if they were dismissive of it. It just hadn't necessarily occurred to you, I don't think.

[James Reed]

When did you do this?

[Molly King]

When this was maybe 10 years ago. I was in my early 20s.

[James Reed]

So were you ahead of your time really in recognizing this need for digital?

[Molly King]

I think so.

[James Reed]

First, I suppose we've talked to other people on the podcast about digital first, but you will recognize that a decade.

[Molly King]

Ago, yes, maybe it was useful because I'd been around for so long and I was quite young at the time, so I was just naturally engaged with digital media all the constantly as a music fan, as someone in their early 20s. So I could kind of. I could see where it was going and I could see what I wanted from it.

[James Reed]

One of the things, I think it's a secret advantage of family businesses is that they can immediately tap into the young generation. Philip and Nunazi, with you there, I.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Mean, I agree entirely.

[James Reed]

A lot of businesses don't have that. I mean. So what's your take on all this?

[Nuala O'Connor]

Well, hugely enriching and you know, to have somebody who is growing into the business but who has a whole skill set and means of communication and an understanding of the technology. I'm an analog guy of a certain age who grew up with a dial up telephone, didn't have, you know, a mobile phone, etc. Whereas Molly grew up in a generation of a different sort of digital generation, so was able to bring all of that to the company. So for us it was hugely, hugely enriching and you know, hugely successful as well because people began to sort of sense what other voices was about in a different way for a different generation. I mean, when I started making television programs first, and you'll know from having worked at the BBC and that going about making television programs, that was a completely different matter to what it is now. I mean, some things remain the same. A good idea, having a great idea. How do you develop the idea, how do you get the resources that are necessary to go from the abstract idea to the tangible thing on the screen. But as you say, working with the family. And so I suppose the little business that is salquent Blows grew from that passion. And I guess in any business that's hugely important to have a belief and a passion in the thing itself for its own sake. And you Know, I think that without that, you know, businesses will always struggle.

[James Reed]

Yeah. My father's always said that success is as easy as pie. And I said, what's that mean?

[Nuala O'Connor]

Pie?

[James Reed]

And he said, P for passion, I for ideas, and E for energy. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of this from both of you. Passion, ideas and energy.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Well, I mean, I. I think without that, without. Without that, I think a business will struggle, and particularly, you know, a family business. I mean, I. I think the passion is definitely there. You know, the idea that we want to go and do. Do it is. Is. Is definitely there. And we still have. We're energetic about it. And I go back to Heaney's phrase again, motive force. We are very, very motivated to go about doing what it is that we do and to go back to the first principles or noodles. First principles. Celebrating what's about to happen. Giving a platform to aspiring and interesting musicians and giving a platform to them that they can speak to the world eloquently and clearly and beautifully from a tiny little church in the west of Ireland. And you can turn it on in Norway, and there it is. Without the quality that's in the place itself, we wouldn't flourish. The business would not have survived or endured and grown in the way that it has. Because it's that sort of almost abstract thing, the thing that you can't put your finger on.

[James Reed]

That's almost. If you're starting something afresh, it's almost what you need to find, isn't it? Somehow the thing you can't put your finger on.

[Nuala O'Connor]

But incredibly elusive, isn't it?

[James Reed]

Well, it seems to be, yeah. And you did. So, Molly, you were sort of growing up with this. So you remember it when there was hardly anyone in the church.

[Molly King]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

So what's your recollection of what happened? How did it suddenly become such a destination? What's your take on that?

[Molly King]

A few things happened. We started putting on all these shows. More people came naturally. And I suppose after a certain period, I just remember that my touchstone was that my friends started to care about it, which took years, you know, took years for anyone.

[James Reed]

They were slow to wake up or.

[Molly King]

Anyone in school, you know, like peers, teen. By the time we were about, at 13 or 14, it started to become a thing that people paid attention to, or they'd be like, oh, who's playing? You know, can we go and see something? And then I started to be like, oh, this is becoming. You know, people are starting to notice this. And it grew and it grew and it grew and by the time I got to university, every once in a while someone would say, oh, all the voices I've been. I know that. And I can't put my finger on how to answer your question. Some of it was just a natural progression and as Philip actually described, like the magnetic nature of Dingle in this off season time, I think it was kind of key that it was winter time that we ran. And it also became a kind of an unofficial music industry Christmas. The entire Irish music industry decamped to Dingle for a weekend every December and had a ball. And I think some of them are a bit annoyed now.

[James Reed]

Location, timing, artists, There's a lot going on here.

[Molly King]

I think some of them a bit annoyed now that it's, you know, it's.

[James Reed]

Gotten so big, it's harder to get.

[Molly King]

It's harder to get in. You can't get, you know, you can't get your favorite spot in the pub anymore. Not necessarily. But yeah, it just, it. Some of it grew naturally. And then I think we started to sit down and think, what do we want to do with this? You know, there's a. There's a sense of momentum to something that you don't always have control over.

[James Reed]

Yes.

[Molly King]

And then you almost have to sit down and think, okay, the kind of the ball is rolling down the hill and how do we maintain and retain the ethos? So you'll understand this. You know, with anything, any business grows. Sometimes it's easy to forget what made it important or what made it, what was the core. And if you don't hold on to the core, then you might lose sense of what the gig is and you might turn around and go, oh, we didn't really mean to do that. And I think it was important for us to every once in a while say, what are we, you know, what are we doing here? Why is this so important? And it goes back to the artists. Without the artists, we don't have a show. We don't have anything without the music. So if you never lose sight of protecting the music and the artists and making sure it's a good experience for them. And I think if you always know that as big as you get or how many events you put on in different locations, you'll hopefully be able to always kind of like keep the ethos the same so that people, no matter what location we pop up in, people might say, oh, that's what the voice is. So it'll be like this. It will sound good, it'll be intimate, it'll hopefully be in some way Emotional. I'll see some really good music, the bands will be happy. And then I'm going to be able to go and look at it all on YouTube and then I'm going to be able to go and look at it on telly, and then I'm going to be able to say it, send it to my pal who lives in San Francisco or my pal who lives in Norway. And it's. It's allowing the audience to always feel that they will get the same quality experience in terms of production value, but also in terms of emotion. Because obviously we say this jokingly, but it is true that we are in the feelings business. Like, that's our business, but we're in the feeling business because music is inherently emotional in terms of how people interact with it. But also we're a family and it is personal. You know, it's not just a business to. To us. It's the way we live. It's what we do every day. And it's hard to imagine doing anything else. Like, you've really spoiled me for another job.

[James Reed]

You don't have to.

[Molly King]

I hope I don't ever have to get another one.

[James Reed]

I hope you keep going. Yeah, so. So this is obviously you. You described it very eloquently. You've sort of kept a sort of core to your offering, which has been consistent, but it's grown because of this digital opportunity that happened at the same time, in parallel really, to when you started all those years ago. And you've done that sort of very successfully. So taking it out to the world now.

[Molly King]

Yeah, I mean, I guess obviously the pandemic happened and everyone had to go digital. And we were very lucky that we already knew how to do that. And so I suppose that accelerated what we were already doing to a very significant degree.

[Nuala O'Connor]

So that's when thing was a. A big learning curve for us as well, because again, it was interesting. The government contacted us and said, you know, lots of businesses are going to close. It's going to be great difficulty, as we all experienced. And it said for artists and for the music business, this is going to be real trouble. Nobody's going to be buying a ticket to go and see a show. And they said, you have some expertise in this area of streaming things. And so, I mean, we were very lucky because the government had some resources and gave us some resources to go about doing something. And they said, what do you think we should do? And we hit on the word courage and said, you know, what people are going to need now in their. As they're isolated one from the other is some courage. And I used that phrase a little earlier on. How do we collapse distance at a time of isolation and bring something to people? And so we suggested that we would do a series called Other Voices, Courage. And we did 19 of them. And it was remarkable in a way. We got access to buildings that in a hundred years you couldn't get access to, like the National Gallery in Dublin, you know, a beautiful room, the Shaw Room, Beautiful iconic paintings in the room. So you put a wrapper from Limerick called Denise Chaila in the middle of this room and do it live. Live. Not as live. Live. Live. And it was sensational. And so we took Fontaine.

[James Reed]

So this is in the middle of the pandemic.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yeah, we did 19 of these. And we. So we put. We put Fontaine's DC into Kilmainham Jail and did it live. Live. And people were ringing up and say, this can't be live. It's live. And so we then hit upon the notion in the collapsing distance business that if a presenter or the artist would actually say hello, we're having. There are messages coming into us now from San Francisco, from Australia, from Austin and Texas, from London, and send us some photographs. And there are pictures of people dancing in their kitchen. And so during the COVID piece, this was a real boon for the artists as well, who got to go to work. But also then we were able to break down the distance and bring people together and give people a sensation of almost virtually being at an event. So we did 19 of those in 19amazing sort of places around the country, and it was amazing. The bureaucracy of getting into these businesses just fell away. And the minute that Covid was open, you'd say, can we do a gig in the National Library? He said, you must be out of your mind. He said, we couldn't allow anything like that happen in here. So we were back to your opportunity. We were back to sort of, like, dealing with process. And one of my pet things is just process is choking everything right now. I mean, the level of process, I mean, from the Arts Council to everywhere, you know, is the enemy of creativity, really. But, I mean, that's just a no.

[James Reed]

I think that's a very interesting observation that I would share with you. Although we're in very different businesses, I see that myself.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yeah, but I mean, I think that the core thing. I mean, in your business, the core business is work. Wanting to go to work, providing work. How do you get a job? You know, how do you place somebody in a job? You know, how do you get the right person. All of those things are absolutely crucial and attendant to everything that we do.

[Molly King]

It's a difficult business in terms of it's, you know, challenging to keep going, to get your budgets, to find partners and sponsors and work with, getting grants and, you know, any peers and friends that I have in the music industry. A lot of us go, God, why do we do this? And then you get to the weekend of your event, and then you go, I know why we do this. You know, this is special. But it, you know, I think having grown up around all the good parts and the challenging parts as well, being very aware that, you know, there are elements to any business like this that are challenging is, I guess, being able to kind of keep your hand on the fire in terms of some, you know, sometimes you'll have difficult years, sometimes you'll have great years, but you keep, you know, you keep going, because that's your message.

[James Reed]

Keep going.

[Molly King]

Yeah, you just have to keep.

[Nuala O'Connor]

And you nearly die several times, you know.

[James Reed]

Yeah, yeah. And that's true of our business, too. Still going.

[Molly King]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

64 years. We've had some war stories.

[Molly King]

Yeah, everyone has. Everyone has a few war stories, you know, that's part of business.

[James Reed]

Here's a suggestion. I think you'd really enjoy listening to other voices this year. It's live in Dingle between 29 November and 1 December. You can find other voices on YouTube. There are some fantastic acts that are going to be playing this year, and I'm looking forward to being there in person. But join online, you'll love it.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Well, I mean, in the very beginning, James, you know, we made a list of artists and probably anybody, nobody would know who they were. They were beginning their career. We were celebrating what's about to happen. But very early on, Hozier came, you know, before he was well known, before he was a star and a number one artist in America, which he is for most of this year. And so when we ask him to come back, when he has arrived at a certain plateau of his career, he says yes. So the way in which our thing unfolded was sort of organic in a way, is that, know, Damian Rice became like quite a big star. You know, Glenn Han went on to win an Oscar. Hosier became an enormous star, you know, Amy Winehouse.

[James Reed]

So you're spotting talent here. You're bringing in young artists, emerging artists, and then suddenly they. They grow and flourish.

[Nuala O'Connor]

And I mean, it's almost like as if you would say in the record business or in the music business, it's Almost an untold AR function. You know, that we identify artists. We know, we. Because Molly is in the artistic community and so am I. We, we know that. Oh, there's somebody interesting say Little Sims came to Dingle, must be eight years ago and she played an absolutely storming gig. But very few people knew who Little Sims was. Now she's on all the Coldplay shows, does main stage at Glastonbury, etc. So you know, our job really is, is like I suppose talent spotting to some degree, having a sense of somebody who might be on their way somewhere. And then if we ask them some years later to come back, they come back and then other stars sort of say to each other when they're on tour, have you done that thing in Dingle yet? We were there last year, it was absolutely fantastic. So it's that word of mouth piece, like, I suppose, like a piece of. If you're selling something, people say that's really good. That is.

[Molly King]

I mean, it's also just because it. I suppose with time like anything, the longer you're in that business, the easier it becomes in terms of word of mouth. So a lot of the kind of like the agents, bookers, managers, record labels, because we've been doing this a long time, they'll go, they might say, oh, that, that might work for you this year. Or like in any given year we have our list of artists that we've probably been trying to book for five years and every once in a while one will come good, like Kate Empress last year, you know, we'd been on the hunt to get Kate to Dingle because we knew it would be so special for years. And so there's an artist that I'm too superstitious to name that I just. We will get them back. But it's just, it takes, it takes years. You, you just have to keep asking.

[James Reed]

I'm sure they never forget coming.

[Nuala O'Connor]

They certainly don't.

[Molly King]

Once you, once you get them to Dingle, your. A lot of your work is done and they will likely come back. But it's the ones you have who have never been that you have to. Sometimes depending on the artist, you have to work to get them there. So it's kind of a, it's kind of a mix. I think it has built up hopefully a very credible reputation. So I'll go into meetings in London and various record labels or management companies and someone will go, oh, I was in Dingle with Mount Kimby three, four years ago. How are you guys doing? I'm working with this. I'M working with these artists now. What do you think? And it's. It's kind of a natural ecosystem. And so you build up these relationships over time.

[Nuala O'Connor]

That's right. And then from a presenter's point of view as well, I mean, Annie Mac and Hugh Stevens, you know, are. Are really wonderful. And we've known them for so long and they presented the Mercury Prize for the BBC this year. And Hugh is a staple DJ on 6 Music Now. So we're sort of in the life, if you like. We're in the life of music as it unfolds and develops. And sometimes you're ahead of the curve. Sometimes you get two or three people who are just about to arrive. And that's. That's. That. That. That's a great feeling as well.

[James Reed]

This reminds me of that expression, you know, every overnight success takes about 20 years, sort of equity and appreciation of what you do. And that sort of performing in the church is so unique for the artist as well, as you were saying, Philip, experience for them.

[Molly King]

There's a nice kind of equity to it because, you know, the church is very small. And the way. The way the artists get into what the sacristy room is, the side room with all the gear in it, and it's where they walk onto stage. They have to walk up a step ladder through a window that opens. And there is only one way in, you know, it doesn't matter.

[Nuala O'Connor]

And one way out.

[James Reed]

It can't be two grand, then.

[Molly King]

You know, that's the only way in, so.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Well, Amy Winehouse went up those steps. Yeah. With her little spindly legs and her beehive hairdo.

[James Reed]

Oh, you've got good insurance.

[Molly King]

Yeah.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Oh, yeah. So. So she crept in that way. So there is.

[Molly King]

Everyone kind of comes in the same way, no matter where they are. And I think. I think they feel that and it encourages, you know, our artists themselves hanging out. They'll watch each other's shows, they'll say hello. Some of them might have been on the road on the same festival circuit. So there's a nice. We don't really like the kind of red tape, vip, exclusive, whatever. Like, there's no. There's no other room that you should be getting into, if you know what I mean.

[Nuala O'Connor]

You may have seen Katherine Finch, the great Welsh harbour and even Ivry and the Irish fiddle player. We put them together in cardigan and they've grown into a real musical item. And we've been doing that for three, four years now. And we'll do it for the next three, hopefully. And that initial. So more and more people are beginning to come. So it's becoming something that might take hold and might endure. And again, we found the right people, people who are very motivated to want to go to work at the production value level that we're talking about. And again, I can't stress that enough. That's a key magnet for artists to want to come, that they know it's going to be okay on the night. But the Welsh experience is very enriching. And the Ireland's Edge piece, and you were there. Our Minister for Finance didn't give very much away when I tried to nail him on a couple of matters.

[James Reed]

Go.

[Nuala O'Connor]

You would have been much better at interviewing. You would. You would have got something out of him.

[James Reed]

James, the Minister for Finance. Yeah. They're always tricky customers.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yes. But I mean, interestingly, I suppose, you know, behind all that, he's a real music fan and he's a bit anoraki, like, music wise. Like he knows the serial numbers of the records that he bought when he was young, you know, that sort of thing. Real Minister for Finance.

[James Reed]

I say good appointment.

[Nuala O'Connor]

They're saying a very good appointment. Yeah. But I think he understands and I think that I'm beginning to sense that whereas in. In Ireland for a long time we took the cultural piece for granted, I think. I think that there is definitely a sense that investment in the arts in a strategic way is something that will bear fruit. I mean, I guess in the Irish sense. And you'll see this from looking across the Irish Sea in terms of foreign direct investment, in terms of, you know, corporation tax. The results have just been released. It's just there's a real bump in the amount of corporation tax. You know, there's a sort of a.

[James Reed]

Sense that at a much lower rate, I might say, than in the uk.

[Nuala O'Connor]

That's right.

[James Reed]

Well, which is interesting. So collecting a large amount of corporation tax at 15%.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yes, but I mean, what. What Pascal, that particular minister will say, and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform as well, and the government as a whole, is that they're beginning to sort of sense, I think that again, the culture piece is. Can be hugely attractive to a workforce that want and can work. In Ireland now, there are huge problems to do with housing and many other things, but there is that definite sense that being able to live and work and have an educated workforce. The culture in the broadest sense is a prime and significant attractor to businesses that want to set up and can set up and can get the workforces that they need to be able to do the job.

[James Reed]

So, Molly, you run a parallel event with Other Voices, which is called Island's Edge, which is like a conference. You bring together science and art. Is that right? What's the thinking here?

[Molly King]

Yeah, so we run that with my sister Juno and my mother Nuala, and we call it our idea strand of Other Voices in terms of. It's where we go to figure ourselves out in the broadest sense. The idea with Ireland's ED is that it kind of collapses these boundaries between different sectors that tend to be quite siloed. So kind of inserting the A of art into the stem, you know, like stem, steam, science, technology, engineering, maths, they don't tend to necessarily talk to artists, and artists don't tend to necessarily talk to, say, engineers. And the idea is that Ireland's Edge becomes a kind of a home to discuss the broadest topics. So it could be foreign policy issues, it could be disinformation, it could be AI, it could be the environment, it could be preserving the Irish language. A huge array of conversations. The idea is that the people in the room are from the most kind of disparate backgrounds. And the idea is that in order for us to imagine a better future for ourselves, we have to become kind of profoundly collaborative. And in terms of. The challenges that we face are profound in terms of so many, particularly in Ireland, housing. But, yeah, the idea is that we bring these people together who may never meet. And I suppose the idea was born out of a lot of questions and conversations we had around the dinner table about these kind of pressing issues that really were preoccupying us as a family and amongst our broader friends who work on Ireland's Edge? And we kind of said, well, why don't we do something about that? Or why don't we try and talk to some experts or some very interesting people who can illuminate us or give us. Show us a path forward. And that's been going for quite a number of years now. And we've had some amazing conversations there, including, you know, we had Fiona Hill with us last year, who's kind of the foremost expert on Russian. Russia and Russian foreign policy, serving under Trump and Obama.

[Nuala O'Connor]

And now she's back here. And now she's back here in. In the administration, here in the Department of Defense.

[James Reed]

I think that's very interesting, and I like the idea. I mean, we're all looking for an edge, aren't we, in a way in life? And, you know that people listening to this will be looking for what they can learn and Take home and your fusion of STEM with arts and becoming steam. It reminded me of that wonderful book, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Sure.

[James Reed]

Which I read many years ago as a, as an enthusiastic motorcyclist. You know, I love the journey. I like the wind in my hair, I like the smell of the trees in the street.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

But you have to be able to fix it and you have to be able to work, you know, understand the engine and how it's all put together.

[Nuala O'Connor]

That's right.

[James Reed]

And that's what that book was really about. The sort of the journey combined with the understanding of how to fix it. And that's what you've sort of created here.

[Nuala O'Connor]

We've attempted to do that and to have an open forum, really. And we're interesting people like, you know, broadcasting say, for example, is going through a hugely difficult phase right now. And the guy who's heading up our public service broadcaster, Kevin Backhorst, used to run OFCOM here and he's faced with a huge challenge. But the historian Herbert Ferrisher, who has just written a magnificent new book on the last 20 years of Irish history, let's say 30 years, the 90s to, to the present day, is going to sit down and interview him and talk to him, and that will be a very, very insightful conversation, you know, about what is the role of a public service broadcaster now? You know, I mean, some people would argue that there's no role for a public service broadcaster, whatever, you know, they.

[James Reed]

Certainly are in England. They're arguing that.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Yeah, yes, but, but I mean, I think that again, if we talk about the broader picture of that, a safe, democratic place to live, you must have a source of truth in the news that you can trust.

[James Reed]

So my last question, and this is one of my interview questions from 101 in the book, one of the fateful 15, as it's described as a classic interview question, which, and I'm asking all my guests, and I'll start with you again, Molly, is where do you see yourself in 5 years time?

[Molly King]

Hopefully in Ireland. I live in London at the moment and I've been here for nearly nine years and I am slowly, slowly moving my way home. I mean, I would hope that I'd be in Dingle, but I'll settle for Dublin. But yeah, I mean, doing the same job that I'm doing now, but hopefully back in Ireland. Yeah, I miss it, I have to say, starting to, starting to really pull me home.

[Nuala O'Connor]

Five years time. Well, I would hope that other voices will be secure and growing and developing in the capable hands of Molly and the Other Voices family in our little musical world. And the music business is an enormously lucrative business. The corner of the field that we occupied, there's a great phrase in West Kerry, in Irish, called kunya ungeria. And kunya is the word for corner. And giri is a hare, right? So it's called the hare's corner. And I asked once, I said, what is this thing called, the hares? What is this thing? And they said, well, the farmer goes into the field at harvest time and the one farmer will mow the whole field down, everything, every corner, everything, and take it away. And then they said, there is the farmer who will leave the hare's corner, right, because the hare sits, the hare doesn't burrow. And the farmer will leave that little piece for the hare just because it's the right thing to do. And again, people in Ireland, referring to the hare's Corner, talk about places like West Kerry, talk about places in Donegal. They talk about these places that are left for their own sake, to nourish us, to inspire us, and that they're there for their own sake. That if you were doing a granular spreadsheet or the thing, you'd be saying, how much is that Harris corner there? We should cut that. Well, you know, but it will reward you in a different way, is what I'm saying. And that sometimes it's just necessary to leave that thing. And we operate in that corner. That is the place that we operate in with people who live in that particular place who, because they love it and feel it, you know, want the thing to endure and to continue that you don't open, cast mind the resource that you consistently put something back in. And if there was any one thing again at the core of the Other Voices South Wind Blows thing, it's that it's. Is it possible to put something back and to be.

[James Reed]

How do you say that again?

[Nuala O'Connor]

To be allowed to do that.

[James Reed]

How do you say that again in.

[Nuala O'Connor]

The hare's corner in Irish Konya on Uria.

[James Reed]

That's our message, I think. Thank you so much, both of you. I love that. I think everyone should have a hair's. Thank you to Molly and Philip for joining me on All About Business. If you'd like to find out more about Other Voices, visit othervoices, ie or follow them on social media. I'm your host, James Rent, chairman and CEO of Reed, a recruitment and philanthropy company. If you're looking to land a job you love in the creative sector, visit our website or speak to one of our specialist recruiters today. All the links are in the show notes. See you next time.