Podcast Summary:

James Reed: All About Business
Episode 45 – “We lost £11 million in one month!”: What Hays Travel did to go from crisis to smashing £3 Billion | Dame Irene Hays
Released: September 29, 2025
Host: James Reed, CBE
Guest: Dame Irene Hays (Majority Owner and Chair, Hays Travel)

Overview of the Episode

In this rich, candid conversation, James Reed sits down with Dame Irene Hays, the resilient and innovative leader of Hays Travel—now the UK’s largest independent travel agency. Irene candidly shares the remarkable journey from a single, humble store to a nationwide network of 512 branches with a £3 billion turnover, including how her team navigated the acquisition of Thomas Cook, survived a pandemic that wiped £11 million from the business in a single month, and built an enduring company culture based on community, values, and people-first leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Early Growth

[01:57-09:00]

• Humble beginnings:

  • Hays Travel started in 1980, initially considering being undertakers. John Hays (Irene’s husband) chose travel, converting the back of his mother’s babywear shop in Seaham, County Durham into their first agency.
  • “His dad built a counter at the back of the babyware shop and put up a garden trellis to divide the baby grows and the dresses from the travel agency.” (Irene Hays, 02:30)
  • First-year turnover: £812.

• First big regulatory hurdle:

  • They fought for ABTA accreditation—even cheekily pointing out to the inspector that Harrods housed a Thomas Cook travel agency at its back, and got their license after initial rejection.

• Steady expansion:

  • Growth was organic, taking over various village shops (butchers, hairdressers) and moving into Sunderland, which remains their HQ.

2. Values, Culture, and the "SMILE" Framework

[06:50-10:20]

• Early focus on vision:

  • The core vision (“to be the most profitable independent travel agency in the UK through valuing our people, our customers and our communities”) hasn’t changed in over 40 years.
  • “We decided we wanted to be the most profitable independent travel agency in the UK through valuing our people, our customers and the communities where we serve them.” (Irene Hays, 07:20)

• ‘SMILE’ values:

  • An acronym: Supportive, Motivational, Innovative, Loyal, Excellent.
  • “We decided to take the word smile and use the mnemonic of that to create our values ... which is being supportive, motivational, innovative, loyal, and excellent.” (Irene Hays, 09:06)

• Embedding culture:

  • Values are cascaded from hiring, training, appraisals, and marketing to ensure clarity and consistency.

3. Customer Care & ‘Soft Infrastructure’

[12:06-19:30]

• Superior customer service:

  • High trustpilot scores (4.9/5 with massive sample size) are the result of putting people first, not just customers but staff.
  • “Travel really is an emotional purchase… Holidays are usually one of the most expensive things anybody will buy in a year… We want our customers back wherever they are in the world.” (Irene Hays, 12:10 & 13:44)

• Soft vs. hard infrastructure:

  • Emphasis on empathy, active listening, resilience, and emotional support—qualities actively taught, even down to teaching apprentices how to smile.
  • “Soft infrastructure is about telling people how to relate to other people, telling people how to listen carefully... Even teaching young people just how to smile! ... With your eyes as well as your mouth.” (Irene Hays, 16:28 & 18:08)

• Practical support:

  • In crises, Hays Travel proactively contacts customers in affected destinations, using personal touch that online agencies lack.

4. Bootstrapping & Innovation

[19:57-25:18]

• No external investment:

  • Growth entirely self-funded and bootstrapped.
  • “We have never taken any debt… it’s all out of our balance sheet.” (Irene Hays, 41:59)

• Diversified services:

  • Beyond branches: 750 homeworkers, back-office services for 122 independents, a tour operator, and a currency exchange business.

• Culture of innovation:

  • Everyone from management does ‘back to the floor’ annually to learn from frontline staff.
  • Innovations often come from staff feedback, not top-down.

• Adapting to trends:

  • Emphasis on staying ahead with customer trends/social media: “If you stand still, you go backwards.” (Irene Hays, 25:06)

5. The Thomas Cook Acquisition and the Pandemic Crisis

[25:18-39:00]

• Acquisition of Thomas Cook branches (2019):

  • Bought all branches in a whirlwind 16-day process, mapping out which to take via an AA road atlas on their kitchen table.
  • “We decided we should just take them all … We just acquired Thomas Cook. And there was a pause… ‘Yeah Irene, I think that’ll be newsworthy.’” (29:07 & 29:48)

• COVID-19 devastation:

  • Within 12 weeks, all travel sales stopped. Hays Travel lost £11m in March 2020 alone.
  • “In March, we lost £11 million in one month straight.” (Irene Hays, 34:21)

• Innovative survival:

  • Pivoted staff to telephone call centre work, servicing supermarket delivery customer operations to save jobs and cashflow.
  • “On the ninth pitch, somebody said, ‘You’ve got no track record.’ I said, ‘Categorically, our people will be fantastic for you.’” (Irene Hays, 32:17)

• Staff loyalty:

  • “The letters of support and thanks… virtually all finished with the same sentiment: Thank you very much, John and Irene, we will pay you back. And pay me back, they have, several times over.” (Irene Hays, 35:42)

• Personal loss:

  • John Hays died suddenly during the pandemic. Irene describes the devastation but also how work and mission helped her power through as sole leader.

6. People, Growth, and Acquisitions Post-Crisis

[39:00-43:40]

• Post-pandemic expansion:

  • Hays Travel quickly rebounded and acquired at least 10 more companies, including a major cruise operator as the cruise sector rapidly grows.

• No debt strategy:

  • Still entirely self-funded—“All out of our balance sheet.” (Irene Hays, 42:04)

• Prioritizing culture and talent:

  • “It doesn’t matter whether it comes from Hays, Thomas Cook, or any business… if they’re twinkly and have passion and hunger, they’ll succeed.” (Irene Hays, 40:04)

7. Apprenticeships, Second Chances, and Emotional Resilience

[43:24-53:10]

• Hundreds of apprentices:

  • Around 800-900 apprentices at any time, championing youth training for over four decades.

• Impact stories:

  • Shares a poignant story of Gary, a struggling YTS apprentice, who turned his life around with support—a metaphor for the value in backing young people.
  • “No one’s ever stuck up for me before… One intervention can transform a life.” (Irene Hays, 47:11)

• Emotional resilience:

  • Sees an emotional resilience crisis in British youth, exacerbated by social media pressures. Urges integrating wellbeing and mental health support into school curricula.
  • “Young people need strategies for coping and need to know they’ll fit in somewhere—they just need to find the right place.” (Irene Hays, 51:40)

8. Public Sector vs Private Sector Insights

[53:20-59:27]

• Draws on experience as Council CEO and short-term Permanent Secretary:

  • “Leadership is key … sometimes in government, there is vastly more ambiguity and complexity and less clarity of purpose.” (Irene Hays, 54:24)

• More ambiguity, less nimbleness:

  • Private sector can be clearer and more agile; public sector often hamstrung by politics, funding complexity.

9. Looking Ahead: The Future of Hays Travel

[59:27-64:43]

• Customer-first future:

  • Focused on where customers’ interests take the business next: “Wherever the customer takes us is the answer to that.” (Irene Hays, 59:43)
  • Excitement about new destinations, more homeworkers, greater flexibility.

• No plans to sell or step away:

  • “I absolutely have no desire to leave the business. I absolutely have no desire to sell it. I have lots of desire to see it flourish.” (Irene Hays, 63:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the company’s roots:

  • “We started operating different stores and taking over things like hairdressers and butcher shops in small towns and villages in the northeast and then grew steadily from there.” (Irene Hays, 06:24)

• On what drove their success through the pandemic:

  • “Our people were so flexible… the letters all ended, ‘We will pay you back.’ And pay me back, they have, several times over.” (Irene Hays, 35:42/38:55)

• On teaching soft skills:

  • “Incredibly, we have to teach people how to smile with their eyes as well as their mouth. Because they think it’s really cool to be sultry and sullen.” (Irene Hays, 18:08)

• On giving second chances:

  • “No one’s ever stuck up for me before… One intervention can transform a life.” (Irene Hays, 47:11)

• On business philosophy:

  • “If you stand still, you go backwards.” (Irene Hays, 25:06)
  • “If they come in and they’re twinkly and have talent and aptitude and passion and hunger, they will progress in Hays Travel.” (40:01)

• On clarity of mission:

  • “Being crystal clear about that… it’s much clearer and easier in the private sector.” (54:24)

• On her own motivation:

  • “I love progress. I like moving the dial with whatever it is I’m doing.” (Irene Hays, 63:38)

Timestamps to Key Segments

• Beginnings and Origins: 01:57–09:00
• Culture & SMILE Values: 06:50–10:20
• Customer Care & ‘Soft Infrastructure’: 12:06–19:30
• Bootstrapping & Innovation: 19:57–25:18
• Thomas Cook Acquisition & Crisis: 25:18–39:00
• People, Growth, Acquisitions: 39:00–43:40
• Apprenticeships & Emotional Resilience: 43:24–53:10
• Public vs Private Sector: 53:20–59:27
• Future Vision: 59:27–64:43

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in resilient, values-driven leadership and executing innovation under extreme adversity. With engaging stories, practical lessons, and memorable takeaways, Dame Irene Hays exemplifies community spirit, people-first strategy, and unwavering clarity—a blueprint for sustainable business growth through both steady times and crisis. Her candid discussion on apprenticeships, emotional resilience, and her own challenges offers plenty of actionable wisdom for business leaders, aspiring entrepreneurs, and anyone interested in organizational culture and transformation.