79. What businesses should learn from museums about innovation | Elizabeth McKay

Summary

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James Reed: All About Business

Episode 79: What businesses should learn from museums about innovation

Guest: Elizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport Museum
Date: May 18, 2026
Host: James Reed CBE

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Episode Overview

This engaging conversation between James Reed and Elizabeth McKay explores what business leaders can learn from museums—especially when it comes to innovation, adaptability, and audience engagement. Elizabeth shares the business realities of running the London Transport Museum, strategies for resilience post-pandemic, the importance of accessibility and design, and how cultural institutions must both preserve history and shape the future. Packed with anecdotes, insightful advice, and practical examples, Elizabeth’s experiences demonstrate how entrepreneurial thinking is as vital in the cultural sector as in any business.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Success and the Museum’s Mission

• Elizabeth McKay’s Key Goals:
  • The London Transport Museum is “the best museum of urban transport in the world” (03:01).
  • Success means more than financial viability; there’s a charitable mission to “ignite curiosity to shape the future” (09:26).
  • Four strategic priorities: content, engagement, people, and money. “I’m never shy about saying money is really important, because we have to earn the money to make the rest of it happen.” (24:35)
• Actionable Insight:
  • Define your unique category and strengths. Elizabeth: “It's really important that you define your own category because then we can assert that we are the best.” (03:05)

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2. Making Museums Accessible, Inclusive, and Relevant

• Accessibility Initiatives:
  • Children enter for free and adults receive an annual pass. “Kids are free and we have an annual pass...that’s part of making [the museum] accessible” (18:17).
  • Marketing as a place for everyone; breaking down perceived barriers, especially for those who may not typically visit museums.
  • Focus on memorable experiences; programming encourages repeat visits and engagement from families, young adults, and lifelong learners.
  • Importance of early cultural exposure: “If you don't see these places as a child and your parents don't take you, you may never have this opportunity.” (19:13)
• Quotes on Inclusion:
  • “We have a collection that people can relate to. So it's, you know, a root master is a little bit easier to relate to than a Rubens.” (18:52)

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3. Surviving & Innovating Through Crisis (COVID-19 Lessons)

• Rapid Adaptation Under Pressure:
  • Museum faced an existential crisis when the pandemic hit. “We were not set up to work from home...we really had to invent on the hoof.” (08:12)
  • Benefited from being “small enough that we're agile and we could play around with, you know, what's a public program?” (25:39)
  • Pivoted Hidden London tours to online content; a staff member “built a recording studio shed in his garden and they started putting out YouTube content. That’s the kind of innovative…” (26:44)
• Reflection:
  • On leadership during crisis: “That was the hardest thing about COVID I think, because we all just had to...suddenly it was day-to-day existence. And I think you have to retrain to look further and to kind of have ambition and get your mojo back.” (33:21)

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4. The Role of Design and Innovation

• Design as DNA:
  • The London Tube map, its iconic roundel, and poster art have inspired transit systems worldwide. “Design runs through the DNA of London Transport and TFL now.” (20:47)
  • On innovation: “Design is innovation, right. So innovation's about solving problems and design does it in the simplest way and it should be beautiful too.” (22:29)
  • "It was too revolutionary when [Harry Beck] presented it...they didn't [accept it], but later it was embraced, right. And, you know, it's everywhere.” (05:26)
• Strategic Value:
  • Invest in design and artistic collaborations, like the Art on the Underground initiative and in-museum Art Deco exhibitions.
• Quote:
  • “Frank Pick...commissioned amazing new work and you can see his stamp on aesthetic, design stamp on everything.” (22:14)

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5. Diversifying Income and Entrepreneurial Approaches

• Multiple Revenue Streams:
  • Income comes from ticket sales, the museum shop, venue hire, commercial tours, and TFL (Transport for London) grants.
  • Only 20% comes from TFL; the rest must be “earned” through entrepreneurial activity (40:58).
  • Repeat visits encouraged: “When you come out, they're likely to spend something in the shop or have a coffee...then they might find out about, hit those Hidden London tours...” (39:29)
• Balancing Purpose and Profit:
  • “It is a business, but again, we have this purpose, which is a charitable purpose or an education heritage charity. So I have to balance that out.” (24:35)
• Initiative Example:
  • Hidden London tours of disused Tube stations—first an experiment, then a core program. "You start small and you manage the risk that way." (55:12)
• Quote:
  • “You have to look at it as like a little portfolio and choose some things that you'll take risk on and then take care of the things you have to bank. So I love to have little pilots, or I call them whatever I have to call them, so people just think, okay, we'll just try that little thing.” (54:26)

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6. Connecting Museums with Wider Community and Culture

• Transported by Culture Initiative:
  • Inspired by arts funding cuts, Elizabeth launched repurposed and newly commissioned posters to celebrate iconic London arts institutions, displayed throughout the transport network.
  • Regular live music by young artists in museum galleries and a newly activated onsite theater for creative events.
  • "[It's] about making these things accessible... I think you have to work really hard to make it fun and accessible and inviting." (17:32)
• Community Impact:
  • Advocacy for cultural placemaking, drawing parallels between Covent Garden regeneration and international examples.
  • "We're the two kind of cultural cornerstones of Covent Garden and we're about to embark on a redevelopment of the museum." (30:47)

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7. Education, Skills, and Preparing for the Future

• Enjoyment to Employment Program:
  • Aims to connect young people’s early passions for transport with real career pathways (45:15).
  • Annually reaches over 150,000 young people and their teachers.
  • Outreach to 91% of Greater London schools; supports children’s transition to independence in using the transport system.
• Broad Skills Focus:
  • Encourages passion-driven learning and highlights the wide range of transport careers—technical, creative, business, operational.
  • Support for young freelancers in the culture sector, offering business skills and confidence-building.

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8. Leadership, Risk, and Legacy

• Entrepreneurial Mindset:
  • “I think it's essential...[Entrepreneurial thinking] is about new audiences...and our core audience is suddenly experiencing and learning something new. So I think it's a win-win to try new things.” (52:25)
  • “You have to define your legacy...I feel like I’m in this job right now to make this organization the best it can be and to ensure it's here for posterity.” (34:01)
• Vision for the Future:
  • LTM50, a major redevelopment ahead of the museum’s 50th anniversary, to ensure “the museum is more sustainable, more exciting, and can expand our opportunities.” (53:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Art and Science:
  • "Well, design is innovation. Right. So innovation's about solving problems and design does it in the simplest way and it should be beautiful too." (22:29)
• On Building the Museum’s Impact:
  • “If you don't see these places as a child and your parents don't take you, you may never have this opportunity.” (19:14)
• On Entrepreneurial Strategy:
  • “Don't put all your eggs in one basket. So, you know, look after the core stuff...and you do need investment in just to stand still. So I think that's the key.” (55:19)
• On Her Mission:
  • “I see myself enjoying the fruits of our labor for LTM50 and walking through the museum and just being so proud and astounded by what we've accomplished because I know it will be done by then.” (57:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:47 – Defining success and key drivers for the museum
• 08:12 – Lessons from the COVID-19 crisis
• 13:22 – Elizabeth’s career journey: advertising to cultural sector
• 18:17 – Accessibility and making the museum inclusive
• 22:29 – The role of design as innovation
• 25:35 – Revenue streams and business fundamentals
• 31:10 – Museum redevelopment and fundraising
• 36:07 – Measuring success, business metrics, audience segmentation
• 43:52 – Engaging with schools and shaping future careers
• 47:59 – The ‘Transported by Culture’ initiative
• 54:26 – Risk, innovation, and piloting new ideas
• 57:18 – What motivates Elizabeth; looking five years ahead

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Tone & Style Highlights

Elizabeth blends humor, candor, and passion for the museum’s mission, creating a relatable and energetic atmosphere. She emphasizes practical leadership lessons, the value of creativity, the necessity of innovation, and a long-term vision—offering inspiration for both business and cultural sector listeners.

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Takeaways for Business Leaders:

• Define what makes your organization unique—and own that category.
• Financial sustainability requires constant innovation and a diversified revenue base.
• Accessibility and inclusivity are essential for audiences, not just for profit but for legacy.
• Innovation often starts with small, manageable pilots—embrace experimentation and let ideas grow.
• Business metrics and creative programming must go hand in hand for sector-leading performance.
• Invest in future generations: connect mission with education and skills to ensure long-term relevance and success.

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For more details on the London Transport Museum, 'Enjoyment to Employment,' and how to get involved, see their website or visit in person—annual passes and kids’ admissions are always a good place to start.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests who bootstrapped companies, masterminded investment models, or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture. Running a museum might not sound like running a business, but in reality, cultural institutions today require the same entrepreneurial thinking as any organization. Today on All About Business, I'm joined by Elizabeth Mackay, who leads one of London's best known cultural institutions, the London Transport Museum. We discuss her unconventional career journey, the realities of running a museum as a business, and how cultural organizations are adapting to remain relevant and financially sustainable in a rapidly changing world. Well, today on All About Business, I'm really delighted to welcome Elizabeth Mackay, who is the director and CEO of the London Transport Museum. And I've got so many questions for you, Elizabeth, because the London Transport Museum is just around the corner from my office in Covent Garden. Yes, it's a wonderful institution that is packed with young people and children obviously enjoying themselves and some older visitors like myself as well. And I went just the other day knowing you were coming into the see me in the studio and had a good tour. Something I commend to anyone who's got a of time in Covent Garden. But what really impressed me was the sort of way it displayed how technology and transport had changed over really hundreds of years. And the first exhibit I saw coming out of the lift at the top was two men carrying another man in a sedan chair. And apparently their job titles, the people who carried people in sedan chairs, was chairman, which I thought was interesting. And then there was a quote from a man in from 1877 saying he was no longer working the ribbons and he was a coachman and the ribbons were the reins. And, and he obviously drove an omnibus around London.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. And it was this that made me observe how jobs come and go somewhat. And the transport museum really brought that vividly to life. So you run this organization, it's a museum. I think it has many things in common with a business. What does success look like for you? What, what are your sort of key goals and drivers?

[B]

Well, first of all, I'm glad you enjoyed your visit because the museum is a really special place and it is the best museum of urban transport in the world.

[A]

And say that again.

[B]

It's the best museum of urban transport in the world.

[A]

That's in London, everyone.

[B]

Good Absolutely.

[A]

Common garden you should visit.

[B]

It's really important that you define your own category because then we can assert that we are the best. And I truly believe that. And when. And I love that you started where the journey does start. In the museum, we tell the story of the last 200 years of how transport has shaped London. And those jobs have come and gone, and it's really fascinating to see that. And as you wind your way through the museum, you find out about how the tunnels were dug. You find out about the amazing design history. The social history is really fascinating. And I get that feedback all the time. We came for the buses and the trains, but we learned so much about London and how it was created.

[A]

The other. The other. I'm just thinking about all the things I saw and lots of things going through my mind. But there was a photograph of a lot of men. They were men digging tunnels for this. And they were described as navvies. And they were described as fearless workers who had a great appetite for flesh. I mean, obviously had to eat a lot because they were hungry, I suppose, doing this incredible food, physical work. But it. It showed the sort of endeavor that, you know, previous generations put into building this network that we all travel on and perhaps take for granted somewhat.

[B]

I think so. I think so. We all just expect that it will work. And mostly it. It does. And when you look at the history, I mean, obviously the Underground was the first underground in the world to really kind of.

[A]

Another London first.

[B]

Another London first.

[A]

First Underground in the world, everyone.

[B]

Yes. And then. And then later, when you see the Tube map, you know, that was created by Harry Beck, who worked for London Transport. You know, that map has informed and inspired all other transit maps in the world, too. So London really set the scene.

[A]

And you have. You have an amazing display, sort of illustrating that when you walk in, with lots of different languages, I think Chinese, Japanese, French, showing their different maps for their own systems.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Which was all inspired from that one.

[B]

Definitely. So if you. If you travel anywhere, look at their maps, because they're not, you know, they're not the topography of the city. They are like circuit drawings. And that's what Harry Beck was. He was designing circuits. And he never called. What he created a map. He called it a diagram.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it was too revolutionary when he. He presented it to his bosses at the time, they didn't. You know, this is one of those great stories of innovation, right. You know, things don't work all. But later it was embraced, right. And, you know, it's everywhere.

[A]

So he he persisted. Which is very important for innovators. Absolutely. Keep going. Lots of good morals in this story. So. So the other thing I loved there was an omnibus because I, you know, weirdly, I drive horses for fun. So I do, I do play the ribbons, work the ribbons, the reins, because I do that at home for fun. But it was an omnibus which was pulled by two horses only, I think, but it had. It was advertising. Ten passengers could sit inside, but 14 had to go outside. And I think that involved either sitting on the roof or clinging to the back. I don't know. It looked pretty precarious in some places, but that's a lot of people for two horses to pull.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it made me think looking inside, it must be quite good fun traveling. Then. I bet people talk to each other more because, you know, you're quite compact and you're hanging on and it must have been quite a communal experience as well. Now sitting on the underground, everyone's very quiet looking at their phone. But my sense, looking at these older vehicles was that there was a lot more sort of conversation. Do you have any idea whether that's there or is that just conjecture?

[B]

I would say we all look at history through those rose colored glasses. It was probably not the most pleasant of journeys. Cold, not cold. It was really hard to be a driver.

[A]

You had to be tough sitting outside all day.

[B]

Life was precarious. But omnibus comes lots of accidents, I

[A]

suppose, horses getting out of control.

[B]

And it was a free for all. Then you had all kinds of rival bus companies vying for passengers. And this was before.

[A]

This sounds quite exciting.

[B]

Well, yes, I guess so. You know, we all, we all love it.

[A]

Don't want everything to be too managed somehow. So it was sort of free enterprise

[B]

gone free enterprise gone mad.

[A]

So there were lots of separate.

[B]

Yes. So we have a depot in, in Acton. I don't know if you've been there. So it's.

[A]

I have actually.

[B]

It has. Okay. So it's packed with all the things we can't fit in the museum. But there's this one bus I love there, it's called the Chocolate Express. And it, it kind of exemplifies the rivalry and, you know, talks about how you. They'd race around and try to steal each other's routes and passengers.

[A]

Yeah. So there must have been a sort of gang warfare aspect.

[B]

Well, I guess now, now we're, now we're having fun.

[A]

One of the dangers of, of that you've been running the museum, I believe, three years and you've worked there previously so you obviously had the pandemic.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which would have meant you were shut and then you had to reopen and get things going again. Well, what are your lessons from that experience?

[B]

That's a good question. I mean, that was an existential crisis for us. And I think, you know, you look back now with such different hindsight. I remember we had an away day with the whole, you know, management team maybe two weeks before, and we thought, should we talk about this, this thing that we're hearing about? You know, there was such a. Oh,

[A]

just before the pandemic went, such a denial. Viral. That's the wrong word.

[B]

When. Viral. Exactly. And so, you know, the last hour of the Our Way day, you know, we, we started talking about contingency plans and things. So it just hit us all. I mean, I remember spending the weekend before, like madly going to the theater as much as I could because I was just, you know, you just. We didn't know. And then suddenly everything started closing. We were not set up to work from home. You know, a lot of banks had their contingency plans and they, they had practiced that we, we really had to invent, you know, on the hoof. And of course, because we're an independent charity, right, we're a heritage and education charity, but we're part of the TFL family, we're, you know, a wholly owned subsidiary and so we benefited greatly from being able to tack into all that support. Getting laptop sent so you're a charity,

[A]

you're part of a family. How does that work?

[B]

Well, it's like you want to have your cake and eat it too. So we are a charity, we have a purpose. It's a charitable purpose about igniting curiosity to shape the future. But we also have the support of TFL behind the scenes and it's their collection that we look after. Of course it is.

[A]

That makes complete sense. Now you explain it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

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[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

So I had such fun as a kid hanging on the back, you know, on those. It was a sort of the thing you could hold onto when you jumped on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we used to just travel around London hanging on the back.

[B]

And we have two on display. Did you see?

[A]

Yeah, I was really pleased to see them and I thought they look great. So it was sort of. It was good to see those. And also some of the tube trains, some of the old tube trains that are there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Magnificent. And they really look beautiful, actually. So well looked after.

[B]

They really are. And do you know, we take the 38 stock out on. On the line. So it's rare that museums get to take their collections, you know, out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So we, we book heritage trips for the.

[A]

So people can sign up to go on a trip on one of these.

[B]

Yes. And it's.

[A]

How do you do that?

[B]

Oh, well, we. It's publicized on our website and there are certain times of the year we can do that because we require obviously a lot of support from lu. From the. From TFL in order to do that. And so many enthusiasts who work for TFL really just want to help and make. Make it happen.

[A]

So look out for that, everyone. That sounds like a fun outing.

[B]

It was. When I first joined the museum, it was the last steam train that ran into High Street, Kensington. It was. I didn't realize how amazing that was.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I. That was in 2018 when I joined.

[A]

That was. There was a steam train that ran into High Street.

[B]

And the great thing is.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry to have missed that. That would have been great.

[B]

It was great. We were on the District line. And what I love about when you take out, you know, heritage stock is some people are really excited. So you see the photographers there waiting and others have absolutely no idea. And typical Londoners, they'd look up and go, oh yeah. And look down the steam train rolls.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's. That's maintaining some. A cool exterior.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Oh yeah. I did see the Flying Scotsman at Swindon once. That was pretty exciting. So. So, yeah, so it's a, it's a good, good thing to look at what other possibilities are in terms of traveling around. So your career. I'm really interested, you know, how did you become CEO of this wonderful museum? How do you start off on a career journey that takes you into this space? Really? Could you give me a quick heads up of. Because I understand you're from the United States originally. What was your journey to the best transport museum in the world in London, Elizabeth.

[B]

Something I never ever would have thought was remotely a possibility. So I, I moved to London to work in advertising and then I went to the BBC because I wanted actually more meaning in my life. And then the BBC left me and went to Manchester. But I've. By then I was really a Londoner so I had to reinvent myself.

[A]

So you weren't going to go to Manchester, you're going to stick in London?

[B]

Manchester is a lovely place. But I felt like my life was in London.

[A]

Sure, fair enough. So is mine.

[B]

Um, so then I thought, what am I going to do next? And because I was working in creative industries, in the creative world, I kind of pivoted to museums and historic houses as a kind of next step. So I went to Historic Royal Palaces. That has the Tower of London and Hampton Court. And it was amazing job.

[A]

So historic Royal Palaces. That's an organization.

[B]

That's an organization.

[A]

And what's, what's it do?

[B]

Well, it tells the stories of the monarchs and the people that have, you know, worked in the palaces.

[A]

Does it employ those wonderful bee feet? Because they're very good guides if anyone's looking for an entertaining morning out.

[B]

Fantastic, good fun. And yes, they like to be called yeoman warders.

[A]

So not Beefeaters, not PC.

[B]

They will answer to that, will they? Okay, yes.

[A]

You wouldn't want to upset them. Looking at them would not upset them.

[B]

And they're such a. I mean I was a wonderful job because I got to really create some exciting activities and festivals and you know, I ran Learning and Engagement there. And then a job opened up at the London Transport Museum.

[A]

So hang on, you said you ran Learning and Engagement.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you've, you've come at this from a sort of educational.

[B]

Yes, yes. So I guess that would be a common thread. So not in advertising, but that was probably about understanding audiences and people and what motivates them. And that led to my job at BBC Learning, which was about. Which was an amazing job. It had a kind of again, one of those purposes. Wreathian purposes about making people's lives better. And I thought that is something I would like to do. So that was a glorious time at the BBC to work in kind of campaigns to encourage people to learn new skills or acquire new or follow their passions and hobbies. And so that learning thread took me to a new job that historic royal palaces had created as their chief learning and engagement officer. So I got to create something from scratch so that, like a whole new department. And then what were the sort of

[A]

things you felt people could learn at a historic royal palace?

[B]

Well, I thought, I'm not a historian. I started out studying history and then for some reason I thought I had to do something different. And that's a whole other story. But I'm really interested in history. So I thought, well, the things that really interest me, I think would interest other people. So one was about the Tudors, how they used to go on progress. The whole court would pack up and travel.

[A]

Oh, this is a Tudor family, the royal family, everyone.

[B]

And they would descend on people and they'd have to host them. And I thought, what an amazing way to actually take the experience of being in a palace out. So that was one thing I was an initiative. I wanted to take the tutors out to the people and.

[A]

Well, how did you do that?

[B]

Well, we created a festival that could, could travel. We started by doing it, you know, in.

[A]

So you're minding your own business. And then Henry VIII and his family turned somewhere. That sounds horrifying. Well, so what happened?

[B]

I know it would have been, it would, it would bankrupt some people. Right.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not sure I'd be delighted.

[B]

You had to, like. Yeah, but you had to pre.

[A]

You had to pretend.

[B]

Yeah, but at the time. And it never happened. But I thought it would have been genius to take the Tudor experience to Butlins. So I was working on that, you know, so it was things like that

[A]

that I thought, did the Tudor challenge Tudors ever go to Butlins?

[B]

They never did.

[A]

I like the visuals of that.

[B]

I still think they should. I still think they should because the point is about making these things accessible. And often museums and culture are off putting. They can be off putting to people they feel like it's not for them. And I think you have to work really hard to make it fun and accessible and inviting.

[A]

So that's the sort of approach you've brought to the Transport Museum.

[B]

That's what I, Yeah. Really thought about. And I think the Transport Museum. Transport Museum has always been really inviting and open and I remember going there when my children were young, before I would ever have considered that I'd work there.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And how. And I think that's an important part of. Of what the collection.

[A]

Children are let in free, aren't they?

[B]

Yes, I noticed that we've kept that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kids are free and we have an annual pass. So you can.

[A]

Which I now have. Oh, I'm so delighted I can use it again.

[B]

You could come back.

[A]

And I will. No, I'm going to. And I'm going to return.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So that's the way it works. So children are free and then an adult gets an annual pass.

[B]

Yes. And, and that's part of making accessible. But there are other ways you have to make organizations accessible because some people don't feel like museums are for them. So that. I guess.

[A]

So how do you change that feeling?

[B]

Well, one thing, I think we have a collection that people can relate to. So it's, you know, a root master is a little bit easier to relate to than a Rubens. So that we have that going for us, but also with the kind of programming we do, with the, the messaging we do, the communication, all of those things signal, you know, we're here for you. I really think it's important that all museums have visits from school children and that schools continue to fund that and make that possible. Because if you don't see these places as a child and your parents don't take you, you may never have this opportunity.

[A]

Yeah. And you. And you've been quite sort of supportive of the STEAM curriculum.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Science, technology, engineering, arts.

[B]

Arts. Yes.

[A]

And mathematics.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you.

[B]

We love both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

STEM and steam. I don't see anything.

[A]

Well, they've added arts, haven't they? I think STEAM is good because art's very important. I mean, we were just talking about the, the diagram. It's not a map.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, I mean, it's a design. It's a combination of those things. Well, London Transport has a history of really strong design, doesn't it? I mean, we sponsor, at Reed, we sponsor Art on the Underground, which we've been doing for a while. And I, I love that involvement. And, and there's an art map. I've shamelessly put it behind you there.

[B]

Right. That you sponsor that.

[A]

Yeah, well, we do that. And. Well, we. My grandfather was a graphic artist and, and he did propaganda posters in the Second World War include, including things like Keep Calm and Carry On. And so I, I. And he grew up and lived in Hounslow, so I'm sort of interested in supporting the creative arts. But I think seeing things when you're traveling is, is really, really pleasing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I'm just thinking coming here, you know, Tottenham Court Road Station is, is an amazing art installation as well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And there are many others, so.

[B]

Well, Design runs through the DNA of London Transport and TFL now, so it, it is an part of the rich history. The poster collection we have is phenomenal. You can come and see some of the original artworks in the. In the depot.

[A]

I'd love to do that.

[B]

And we, yeah, definitely come and see that. And then we have an Art Deco exhibition on right now because it's, you know, 100 years, 101 years now since, Since Art Deco. But design, it's everywhere. Look at the. The design of the Leslie Green stations. The. The roundel. The iconic roundel is a design.

[A]

Which stations are you thinking of?

[B]

The roundels. Everywhere. You see.

[A]

Oh, you mean the symbol of the. The logo or whatever that's what you call the round.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So, sure, yeah. Everyone knows what that is.

[B]

Exactly. And globally, I think it has one of the highest brand recognitions. So that. And the, the font, you know, the Johnston font is. Is your brain registers. That is.

[A]

But these are very longstanding, you know, these are designs that haven't changed.

[B]

Definitely. And the original posters were designed to encourage, you know, they had a purpose. Right. They weren't just pretty pictures or art for art's sake. It was travel off peak, go to the zoo, go to Kew Gardens. And what Frank picked, who was the kind of commissioner at the time, an incredible visionary man. He worked with the best artists.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He commissioned amazing new work and you can see his stamp on aesthetic design, stamp on everything.

[A]

So design's really important and I think sometimes it gets sort of overlooked to our cost.

[B]

Oh, agree. And it's. Design is innovation. Right. So innovation's about solving problems and design does it in the simplest way and it should be beautiful too.

[A]

So design is innovation. I like that thought.

[B]

So definitely innovation. It's like, how do you design some? How do you create something that solve a problem, communal problem, you know, a building, A transport problem. A transport problem.

[A]

So I like the Elizabeth line.

[B]

Oh, I do too.

[A]

It took a long time coming, but now it's a. It's a pleasure to travel on and it's beautifully designed. Actually, that's a sort of observation of mine.

[B]

It is. It's a pleasure to be on it, isn't it?

[A]

It is.

[B]

It's like a temple to. To transport. Do you know that they first started thinking about it in the 1940s.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, that's how long these things take. And I was reading that it was presented and rejected by Parliament in 1991.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's taken that long. And now we're all, how did we live without the Elizabeth line.

[A]

Yeah. And it's really. It's opened up parts of London that have been hard to get to in a brilliant way, I think.

[B]

Yes, yes. Well, transport does that. Right now, you can see. I mean, we tell the story about the creation of the suburbs because, you know, you build a line and then the houses follow. Well, you can see that happening with transport all over the country. And, you know, the developers look at that, you know, holistically. And I think there've always been people who think about the shape of London and building the kind of city we want and, you know, the more integrated those people can be and do it, you know, with beauty and input from people to make, you know, livable cities.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Better.

[A]

So it's a really important part of the sort of whole infrastructure, clearly. So running a museum, I mean, you have to be like an entrepreneur, I believe. I mean, it's like running a business, isn't it? I mean, you've got income, you've got costs, you've got lots of people working there. So what are your priorities? What do you focus on, Elizabeth?

[B]

Well, you know, it is a business, but again, we have this purpose, which is a charitable purpose or an education heritage charity. So I have to balance that out. So I have. I have, like, four aims. Content, engagement, people and money. And I'm never shy about saying money is really important because we have to earn the money to make the rest of it happen. But we're also here with our purpose to reach young people, to inspire them about the careers of the future. You know, we take their passions about transport when they're really young into helping them signpost their way to getting.

[A]

A lot of kids like transport, don't they? I don't know why that is.

[B]

Curious, isn't it? Crazy.

[A]

I love trains and cars especially.

[B]

Yeah, they have their dinosaur phase, they have their bus phase, and some. Some never grow out.

[A]

So thank goodness they're your core market.

[B]

They are.

[A]

So. Yeah. So, okay, so you said. But money. Talk me through it. How does that work? I mean, you obviously sell tickets.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You've got a fabulous shop that's pretty big. I notice.

[B]

We have a. It's a really diversified portfolio, and I think that's one of our strengths. So, you know, you asked me about COVID and we really bounced back after Covid. We were one of the first to emerge. And I think it's because we were. We are small enough that we're agile and we could play around with, you know, what's a public program. How do we Pivot our Hidden London tours, which were something we do in person. We take people into the ghost station.

[A]

Oh, this is another thing. We need to know more about Hidden London.

[B]

Oh, it's another thing. It is.

[A]

So there's a station that's closed for the Strand just near here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Can you go in there?

[B]

Well, you go into Aldwych, so underneath now a disused station. Those things happen as the. The network expands. Right. So there are a number of them. And thanks to tfl, we're allowed to kind of manage and run a tour program. We have amazing guides who talk about the history of.

[A]

So you go down into the old witch.

[B]

Yes, and it's very. It's all managed with health and safety and. And if you like to wear high vis, you get to do that?

[A]

No, especially. But I'm happy to put high vis on to see all which underground. So.

[B]

Yeah, so. So it's part of our business model. Right. So we in Covid, when we couldn't take tours down, we pivoted and the team, like one of my members of the team built a recording studio shed in his garden and they started putting out YouTube content. You know, that's the kind of innovative.

[A]

So you're seeking innovation from everybody all the time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so. And your income goes. Your income sources, from what I'm hearing, go beyond sort of people coming in.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To taking them out and doing things elsewhere.

[B]

Yes. So we have like commercial activities and so Hidden London would be one of those. Our shop venue hire. So, you know, the museum's open 10 to 6, but at 6 o', clock, like magic, it changes into an amazing party venue. So people will come in and, you know, hire the museum for that.

[A]

So might I ask, how much does it cost to hire?

[B]

I have a brochure you can find out online.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I've got a great team that will kind of work. So it's really like.

[A]

So it's negotiable, is that what you're saying?

[B]

Everything's negotiable, yes, because there are different parts of the museum that can be used and then we have. Well, as you know, you're a corporate member. So we, we have this great interchange program which is a thought leadership program with the. For the supply chain of tfl. And we hold like Chatham House rules, breakfasts and dinners and activities and we put out a report every year about what the great thinkers are thinking and doing. We're working on place making and sustainability

[A]

and place make us explain, well, all

[B]

kinds of things about creating cities and transport and the kind of places we want to live.

[A]

So you call it place making.

[B]

Place making. Well, Covent Garden, if I digress, for a moment.

[A]

Yeah, go on, please. That's what Covent Garden this is all about.

[B]

I'm really interested in this area of, like, how places become.

[A]

Well, I remember Covent Garden when it was a market.

[B]

Yeah. Well, the museum was one of the first cornerstones in its regeneration in 1980. So it opened then. And you might know that in the 70s it was almost decimated. They almost turned Covent Garden into a car park. And really it was the local.

[A]

It was quite a desolate area at one point. I remember in the 70s.

[B]

And then when the flower market left and it was just. It was the time of the rise of the car and the fascination with car and cars. And fortunately, the local residents saved these wonderful buildings and they listed, I think, about 280 properties. And so we benefited. The museum benefited from that and opened in 1980.

[A]

What was the premises before the flower market? It was part of the market, yes.

[B]

You ever seen My Fair Lady?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I have. I watched it just the other day. It's fantastic.

[B]

It's fantastic.

[A]

Did you? Yeah, I did.

[B]

I've rewatched it recently. It is fantastic. Dick. It's not exactly accurate, but I love the depiction of everyone.

[A]

It's entertainment. But I mean, it begins in Covent Garden, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah. Coming out of the opera in a strange way that you can't quite figure out where. Where it was filmed, but it.

[A]

And. And her father's from Hounslow, just like mine. So, you know, we identify with. In our family, so.

[B]

Yeah, Eliza Doolittle.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. That's great. So that's. That's where it was. Yeah.

[B]

So that sense of. And. And that was really inspired by placemaking in other parts of the world. If you look at Fanel hall in Boston or the Embarcadero in San Francisco, some of that thinking was brought to, you know, how do we make Covent Garden work?

[A]

Oh, they. So they. So Faneuil hall had been done before Covent Garden.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because that's a fabulous place as well.

[B]

Exactly. And, you know, desolate, but now.

[A]

So it was an old fish market, I suppose, in the old days, and they turned it into Faneuil.

[B]

And then look at place like King's Cross and how that was regenerated. That's incredible now. And a real kind of magnet for business.

[A]

And so you feel. So your museum is part of that.

[B]

We're part of that process. Yeah. I feel like. And we're opposite the Opera House. So I feel like we're the two kind of cultural cornerstones of Covent Garden and we're about to embark on a redevelopment of the museum. And I think, you know, everybody needs a little bit of a zhuzh up and that's up.

[A]

Okay, so what's your zhuzh up involve?

[B]

Well, our zhuzh up is an investment in the museum to create some new galleries to tell the stories of innovation, things that we're really passionate about. But we've frankly, we've lost or we've run out of room.

[A]

So, yeah, I mean, it's a.

[B]

We pack it in in our museum. So we're going to create a few new galleries with kind of clever architectural engineering and be able to update some of our exhibits. Some basic amenities too, like, you know, toilets need to work. You know, museums love to talk about toilets because visitors want nice toilets. So, you know, you've got to have that.

[A]

So you're, you're investing in it.

[B]

We are.

[A]

And you as a charity, I imagine you're doing a fundraise for this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So what's that involved?

[B]

So we, we launch a fundraising campaign in this summer. I'm not sure when this will go out. So summer 2026, you'll hear more, should

[A]

be out by then and you'll be.

[B]

So I have to, I have to, I have to fill a gap. So I have, I have a great pledge from tfl.

[A]

Well, you should use the Big Give charity platform, which we match funds. I would love, so you can persuade TFL to put some money in the, in the Champion fund. Then when the public donate, it gets doubled.

[B]

I would love.

[A]

And people love the Big Give because their donations are doubled up. So we'd be very happy to support this. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great initiative when, if my head of

[B]

development is listening to this, or actually I'll go tell him right after.

[A]

You might want to make sure they do.

[B]

You will be jumping for joy working out with that.

[A]

But. Yeah, I mean, that's just one of many things you'd have to do. But so you need to raise some money to invest in the future of the museum and what that. And that new version that you're describing

[B]

would last for the next 50 years.

[A]

Next 50 years, you're hoping.

[B]

I think so. I mean, we'll be 50 in 2030, so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The, the big kind of message is we need to be fit for the future.

[A]

So you want to. Yeah. This is going to take you to 100.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and beyond.

[A]

Yeah, no, well, it's good. I think that's interesting. I mean, that's one thing entrepreneurs have to do, is think well into the future. You have to have great answers for the future.

[B]

Yeah. That was the hardest thing about COVID I think, because we were all just had to kind of take our eyes off the horizon and suddenly it was day to day existence. And I think you have to retrain to look further and to kind of have ambition and get your, you know, get your mojo back.

[A]

Yeah. My observation of this is in business, running a business, we have to think in days like, what are we doing now? Next week and decades.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's either the immediate or the far out where you have to have a vision for the future and an idea of what you're trying to do to deliver a service in the future. And so you can invest in that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is what you're doing and we are.

[B]

And I mean, I guess and you think about this too, is that sense of legacy. And I feel like I'm in this job right now to make this organization the best it can be and to ensure it's here for posterity. And I feel that maybe people who work in kind of museums and look after these amazing places feel that real sense of responsibility and passion and like I, you know, I have to do this.

[A]

Yeah, well, it's good that you do because a lot of people care about it. And so I would say that's a sort of necessary prerequisite of a cultural leader. Well, I think it's the prerequisite of any leader, actually. You have to care about what you're doing.

[B]

I think so, but I think so. And I think sometimes you just have to dial it to 11 because you have to convey that passion and convince people. You have to bring your team along with you because people get rattled by things all the time. Like, you know, you read the news, you, you catastrophize. And I think when you're a leader of a, of an organization and you employ people, they look to you for some kind of, you know, I guess test or emotional message.

[A]

Yeah. It's interesting that because they're probably watching you when you don't know it. So you have to, you have to demonstrate a sort of confidence.

[B]

Yes. You can never turn around and go

[A]

in your sort of day to day that maybe you don't always necessarily feel.

[B]

Well, I think that's probably something that anyone in a leadership position feels that you, you think, okay, I have to have my own way to just rant or Go.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Do something. Run around.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yell at your spouse. I don't know.

[A]

Well, I was going to ask you how you do that. Now you've answered. Yeah. Don't take it home with you. That's been advised. Yeah. Yeah. So what are your. What are your biggest challenges as a CEO of a museum?

[B]

Well, always the biggest challenge is the money. So I. And I have a board that is always like, you know, sort the money and the rest will follow. They're really happy with my exciting initiatives and the outreach we do with young people. And we're doing some amazing work on culture, bringing music and art and theater into the museum, and they're completely supportive of that. But it's, you know, the bottom line. So I'm ecstatic. I can tell you that we had our best year ever in 2025. So they.

[A]

Financially.

[B]

Financially and with admissions.

[A]

How many visitors did you have?

[B]

450,000.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So best.

[A]

A lot.

[B]

Best ever. And there's an annual visitor survey that's done and it's come out and it kind of gives a health check on the. On the UK cultural sector. So we're in the top 100, which is great. And we grew 6% last year when the sector grew 2%.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So we've always been.

[A]

So what you put that down to? I mean, these are real business metrics.

[B]

These are business metrics.

[A]

So you're outperforming the market, so to speak.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But what are you doing to make that happen?

[B]

Well, great leadership. I have an amazing team. We're really.

[A]

But what are they doing for the audience? Why do people come?

[B]

They come because we have relevant programming, we understand our audiences, we've pivoted to give the right content to the right people. Young kids love us, and parents, people like you come in and get excited about seeing, you know, the. The Victorian Gallery. I have an art Deco exhibit, poster gallery on now. And we established a poster gallery, a permanent gallery for posters, two years ago. That's really popular. We do exciting programming in the evening. We are accessible.

[A]

So you've sort of broadened the offer in a way?

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

Broadly, as a business strategy. That was.

[B]

As a business strategy, you look after your core audience because that. But you have to grow and you have to serve.

[A]

So who's your core audience?

[B]

Well, you also. Because we're a museum and a charity, we're here for everyone. Right. We are inclusive and open and want to attract everyone. So we have to have a broad offer, but we have, like, any business will have segments that they look and so we have the family segment, we have the, the young adult segment and we have the older. I. We don't often use the older term, but the learner. Traditional learners demographic. Right. Who appreciated different kinds of experience.

[A]

And so there are three different sort of groups there.

[B]

And then you want to encourage people to come at the right time that they'll have the best experience, like. And we, we. You might find as someone who doesn't want to be there with all the school kids, that coming after they've left for the day in the afternoon might be a more pleasant experience. So you kind of use nudges to encourage people to visit at that time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that.

[A]

So, so your volumes are good.

[B]

Our volumes are good.

[A]

Has the money followed that? Because you, you said your biggest challenge was money. I mean.

[B]

Yes. So, well, admissions, obviously you will come. Your admissions increase. But we also have a good repeat because we want people to come back and it's free when they come back. But then you look at your secondary spend. So.

[A]

So when they come out, they're likely to spend something in the shop or.

[B]

Yes. Or have a coffee or something. And then they might find out about, hit those hidden London tours and go on that. Or they might think, oh, I love this place, I want to take a train, I want to go to the depot, I want to.

[A]

So. So, yeah. So the, the sort of giving you a free access for a year is quite a big part of the strategy.

[B]

Yes. Yes. And it's also a really nice thing to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we're a nice place. And I think when you're a nice welcoming place and you walk in and you feel like you're part of it and you're happy, you come back. You know, we look at things like,

[A]

you know, I agree with that.

[B]

Yeah. Am I telling my friends about it and all of those kinds of business metrics.

[A]

Yes. So. And in terms of your finances, I just want to understand, do you have to apply for public support from. Or is it all from the tickets and the charity donations of the public?

[B]

It's unique. So Museum of Culture funding is. Is a like a PhD area. Right. It's hotly discussed and I think in the papers are already talking about, you know, should the National Museum start charging and comparing that to internationally. But we.

[A]

Well, they do in other countries.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And I was just reading some of those comparisons. But London Transport Museum, because we're part of the mothership of tfl, we have a grant from them and they're. That's about 20%.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that is really to look after their collection. So our curatorial staff and to house and care for it is what that grant does. Now we're responsible for the other 80% and we earn that, and that's pretty impressive in the museum world. So if you look at the Nationals, I mean, they might be anywhere between 40, 60% of a grant. Increasingly, we all have to earn more, and that's where you see more commercial activity coming in. We don't charge for our exhibitions, so the Nationals often will have exhibitions where you need to pay to come and see the big hitters, and that's just a reality. So. But our model is the annual pass, and once you're part of the family, come back as much as you like. And that works for us.

[A]

How long have you had that model?

[B]

Since before I arrived. And I think periodically we review it, but we feel that the Kids go Free message is really important. Another organization that's near to my heart is the eno. They also do a Kids go free offer. And I think that the point about culture is you have to encourage people in early.

[A]

So you're taking a really long view here.

[B]

I think you have to take a long view. You know, it's that whole cradle. Cradle. You don't want to say cradle to grave, but like the whole lifespan, you

[A]

just did womb to tomb.

[B]

Oh, I hadn't heard that.

[A]

You're not quite doing that. So. Yeah. So, yeah. But I can see that if you get someone interested early in their life.

[B]

Yes. What's. Habits, isn't it? And.

[A]

Well, that's what education is about in many ways. I mean, the people end up pursuing different lines of work, different things, but some of them will be interested in transport and museums.

[B]

But if they see it, you know, that whole point about you can only be what you see and getting access to people who do jobs. I mean, you must see this in what you do.

[A]

It's really important for schools.

[B]

It's really important for schools. I've done a couple talks with schools and, you know, gone into. And it's a. It's so fascinating to do that and humbling too, because I. I think, you know, I. I've had opportunities for my education, but I also grew up at a time where it was important to have, like, breadth of education. And that's a key difference in, with the UK system versus when I grew up in the US system is you have to narrow and choose so. So early.

[A]

Although that's changing, hopefully with the new vocational levels of V levels, which I'm really pleased to see yes. Excited about which transport should be one.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We should be encouraging this. So what do the kids ask you when you go and talk to schools?

[B]

They. Well, they kind of. No, they ask me how. Well, how. How do you get into this? And. And I say, well, I think you have to be open for change and you have to be able to reinvent yourself and take your skills and apply them to a new opportunity. Because we all know that half the jobs won't exist. I mean, with AI coming, it's happening really rapidly. So I say think about following your passions and what you love, and then you can translate that into opportunities.

[A]

Right, I agree with that.

[B]

Oh, that's good. I was. The way you were looking at me, I thought.

[A]

No, we. I was just thinking, because we say success is as easy as pie. I've said this before, but PI stands for passion, Ideas and Energy. You seem to be endorsing this.

[B]

I definitely endorse that. I endorse that.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Yeah, good. I. I have noticed even my own children, one's like the humanities kid and one's the science kid, and how those passions can diverge quite early. So I feel like it's a mixed. I have mixed feelings about early focus now.

[A]

So, Elizabeth, young people are clearly a core audience for you. You know, what's your focus in that respect? What do you aim to achieve or deliver to young people particularly?

[B]

We have a wonderful program called Enjoyment to Employment. And last year we reached. Reached 156,000 young people and their teachers about future jobs and skills. So that's really important to us to help turn that Early Passion into actual future careers. We also do outreach in schools. We're in 91% of the Greater London schools. We have a safety message. We go out as the museum team to help children in Year six before they, you know, transfer to the big scary world of secondary schools. And they're out there, you know, taking tubes and buses and. And navigating this, you know, the streets of London on their own. So we give them that kind of confidence and that assurance and understand how to be, you know, good citizens in London. So I love that work that we do.

[A]

So Enjoyment to Employment, that's. That's very interesting. Well, how do schools get in touch with you to invite you to do that?

[B]

We have a wonderful learning department that has contacts with all schools, and we have a coalition of sponsors that fund that work. So we have information on our website about it. So that is a fundamental part of what we are and our purpose as an organization to. To help really Young people find those careers of the future. You know, we, we want to help.

[A]

And then you're not just talking about careers in transport.

[B]

No, no, much wider. But you know, transport is so multifaceted.

[A]

It is.

[B]

So that. And we also do some work about future careers in the culture sector as well. So support. We have young, we have a young freelancer program where we help equip them with the skills to be able to run their, their own freelance business, to be able to look after their finances, to feel confident, to go to an interview. So, you know, when they come and it sounds great, come to read, they're already ready.

[A]

But I would encourage people to engage with you on this because it sounds great, both for the, the primary schools, preparing young children that go traveling on the transport network, and also for the enjoyment to employment.

[B]

Yes. And we really get a lot out of it too. And that's an area where our commercial endeavors support and fund that, you know, that work that we do as a charity.

[A]

You've talked a lot in our conversation so far, Elizabeth, about the importance of innovation. And you introduced the Transported by Culture initiative when you became CEO at the London Transport Museum. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

[B]

This is real passion project. So the inspiration for it goes back to 2022, when there was a lot of funding for the arts cut in London. And I had a conversation, very, very quick conversation with the mayor and the deputy mayor at our annual fundraising dinner about that, just, you know, off the cuff. And I thought, I have to do something about this. So what I did was repurposed four of our existing posters in our collection to celebrate cultural organizations in London. And with the help of tfl, we put them out on the network. So then they became transport posters.

[A]

So which were the organizations?

[B]

Well, it was E and O, South Bank Center, Royal Opera House and lso. London Symphony Orchestra and enos.

[A]

The English National Opera.

[B]

Yeah, English National Opera, Royal Opera House, London Symphony Orchestra and the South Bank Center. And they'd all had some cuts and so that was the point. But they were also iconic institutions for us in London and they all had a special place in my own heart. And they had links to our poster collection as well. So that was the start of it. And I thought, well, what more can I do? So we've started to commission new artists to do new posters, so they become part of the collection. And officially, to be a transport poster, it has to go on the line. So I have wonderful support from TFL and the mayor to do that. And I've just Announced the second year of our music program. So we've taken the skills work that we do with young people into arts. So we auditioned and cast 11 young musicians to come and play for our visitors. And so that happens every Friday afternoon in the gallery. So people will come and sit and listen or they'll have no idea.

[A]

So every Friday they're different young musicians.

[B]

Every Friday a different musician in the cohort. So last year we had a wonderful cohort of musicians and some of them are going on to amazing careers. I mean, we're getting them just at the start of their brilliant next step.

[A]

Well, this is another thing that people probably don't know. So if you go on a Friday afternoon, you have a concert thrown in.

[B]

Yes. Two o'. Clock. Right.

[A]

Very good.

[B]

Buy a latte that has a roundel design on it and sit and enjoy.

[A]

Yeah. And you can finish your work.

[B]

And theater, we have a theater that is underneath the shop. And a lot of people don't know that. And I've been trying to use that for some more kind of creative theatrical productions.

[A]

So you have your own theater?

[B]

We have a theater.

[A]

So there's lots of options here. So how many does it seat?

[B]

110 people. So it's not large, but it's large enough. And it's not a huge stage, but you can do, you know, small, small plays. We do film screenings, talks.

[A]

Interesting. And you could use it for business presentations.

[B]

We do, and that's typically what we use it for. So it's trying to pivot and continue to use it for business and people who like to do product launches and things.

[A]

Sounds like a great place to do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I work around the corner. I didn't know that. So I'm learning a lot, so I'm going to use it. Well, we have a little.

[B]

We also have a boardroom that can be hired.

[A]

I've got one of them. But that's useful for others. Yeah.

[B]

And it's surrounded in moquette, too.

[A]

Very good. So. So these are sort of ways that you're making the museum more connected with London's wider arts.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And creative scene.

[B]

Well, it's our location.

[A]

And you see that as an important thing to do.

[B]

I think it's a really important thing to do because it's, you know, our location in West End, and I think it's rooted in, you know, who we are. And the collection, you know, the poster collection is artistic. Our design heritage is incredible. And I think making those more overt links with other creative organizations, it's important. You Know, I think we all need to work together because I think we probably are undervalued as a sector in terms of what, you know, how we work as a magnet for visitors and how we enrich people's lives by the output and content we create.

[A]

Yeah. So how important, Elizabeth, do you think entrepreneurial thinking is, given what you've just been saying in sustaining cultural institutions today?

[B]

I think it's essential. I think you can never rely on, you know, your laurels. I said we had our best year ever, and I'm already going, oh, no, I've got, you know, got new targets to hit. And I think things are moving so quickly that we have to be able to pivot and reinvent and see new opportunities. And, you know, honestly, I think the Transported by Culture initiative is about new audiences. So I can reach people that way that would have thought, oh, that's just a museum for old buses. Well, no, not at all. And then our core audience is suddenly experiencing and learning something new. So I think it's a win win to try new things.

[A]

Yeah. And you have to keep doing that. So what excites you the most about the future for the London Transport Museum?

[B]

I'm really excited about LTM50, this project to regenerate the museum by 2030. So I, I have this mission now. I'm like, we will not stop. And I feel it's relentless.

[A]

LTM 50.

[B]

Exactly. And every business will have its kind of priorities and things. So I've made this the organizational priority for the last two years. And this new budget that we're just working on, 2627 has exactly that at its heart. So I'm passionate about that because I think it is the way to make the museum more sustainable, more exciting and expand our opportunities. You know, I have big ambitions for London Transport Museum. I can see how it can have bigger reverberations.

[A]

We've been talking about ideas, we've been talking about innovation. You've made it clear that 20% of your funding is sort of written in, but you have to raise the other 80%. How does that affect your appetite for risk? Because, I mean, you can't make too many mistakes, can you?

[B]

Well, I think you have to look at it as like a little portfolio and choose some things that you'll take risk on and then take care of the things you have to bank. So I love to have little pilots, or I call them whatever I have to call them. So people just think, okay, we'll just try that little thing. So right now we are experimenting with A talking poster. An AI talking poster.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that has some startup costs and we've got some help doing that. So Hidden London, the tours we do, they were a pilot initially. That was a, oh, there's this deserted space. Could we go and take people in and would they pay for the opportunity to go behind the scenes? So you start small and you manage the risk that way.

[A]

So I think, I think that's a good message for any entrepreneur. Really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Try things, start them small and see what happens.

[B]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. So, you know, look after the core stuff. Make sure every day you're opening the museum and it's running well and it's not neglected or falling apart. And you know, you do need investment in just to stand still. So I think that's the, that's the key.

[A]

So what's this talking poster tell us?

[B]

Oh, well, it's been trained on our content, so it will be a closed system, so you can't ask it for tips for the stock market. But it will be about learning about the collection.

[A]

So how do I get from bank to cross? It will tell me with it.

[B]

What's the best poster in your collection? Well, I think you'll find it's a.

[A]

Okay, so we'll answer your queries.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Well, I'll go and try that on my next visit. Thanks. No, I wish you every, every success with that. I think it's a wonderful institution. I'd like to see it sustained and grow and be successful for another 50 years, obviously, so future generations can enjoy it. And they'll be looking back at the funny things we traveled around in and thinking, wow, I wonder what that was like when they've all got their, you know, they're all flying around in self driven vehicles.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So, yeah. So I wish you continued success.

[B]

We have a poster that's 100 years old that imagines the future that did have flying flying cars by Montague Black. So you're, you're absolutely right.

[A]

Well that, I mean, who knows, they might well come. Yeah. And they'll look back at the funny things we traveled on. Like I was thinking the chairman carrying that man in his sedan chair. So I wish you absolute success with that. Thank you so much for coming in to talk to me today, Elizabeth. I always ask two questions at the end of my podcast conversations. The first is that because at Reid we love Mondays is what is it that gets you up on a Monday morning?

[B]

What gets me up on Monday morning? The excitement to cycle into my office. Actually, I I love to cycle through London streets and I, yeah, I, I like to get into the West End on a Monday.

[A]

You enjoy the journey. How appropriate.

[B]

I enjoy the journey. Exactly.

[A]

Oh, that's good. And my last question from my interview book, why you? Is where do you see yourself in five years time?

[B]

I see myself enjoying the fruits of our labor for LTM50 and walking through the museum and just being so proud and astounded by what we've accomplished because I know it will be done by then.

[A]

I'm, I'm visualizing a ribbon being cut and applause. So I hope that happens.

[B]

Exactly. I, I, I, that's what I'm waking up to now. The sound of, you know.

[A]

Yeah, happiness. I'll go for that. And I wish you every success. Thanks so much. Thanks for coming in to talk to me.

[B]

Thank you very much for having me.

[A]

It's a real pleasure. Thanks. Thank you, Elizabeth, for joining me on All About Business. I'm your host, James Reid, chairman and CEO of Reed, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more about the London Transport Museum or Reid, you'll find links in the show notes. Thank you for listening and see you next time.