Bonus Ep: Balancing Business Leadership and Family Life | Shorts with Sue Douglas part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: James Reed: All About Business
Episode: Bonus Ep: Balancing Business Leadership and Family Life | Shorts with Sue Douglas
Release Date: January 22, 2025
Host: James Reed CBE, Chairman and CEO of Reed Group
Guest: Sue Douglas, Journalist, Entrepreneur, and Tech CEO

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Introduction

In this compelling bonus episode of All About Business, host James Reed engages in an insightful conversation with Sue Douglas, a distinguished journalist, entrepreneur, and tech CEO. Titled "Balancing Business Leadership and Family Life," this episode delves deep into the challenges and triumphs of maintaining a successful career while managing family responsibilities, particularly from a woman's perspective in a traditionally male-dominated field.

Navigating Gender Differences in the Business World

Sue Douglas opens the discussion by addressing the inherent differences between men and women, both biological and historical. She reflects on the societal expectations placed on women, especially regarding motherhood and career ambitions.

Notable Quote:
Sue Douglas (00:42): "Women can have children and traditionally have been the ones who look after those children. A lot of women have struggled with the choice of, well, it's that I can be chief executive of Goldman Sachs or I can have children. But how do you have both?"

She challenges the notion propagated by feminist Germaine Greer that balancing high-powered careers with motherhood is impossible, asserting the necessity of striving for both, albeit recognizing it often involves compromises.

The Complexities of Work-Life Balance

The conversation shifts to personal anecdotes from Sue about her own experiences balancing a demanding career with raising three children. She candidly shares the emotional complexities of her relationships with her children, highlighting both the pride and pain that come with her professional choices.

Notable Quote:
Sue Douglas (01:52): "You were a crap mother at times, but when you were here you were a really brilliant mother and it kind of set a different standard."

James Reed adds to the discussion by contemplating the broader societal implications of work-life balance, suggesting that it’s becoming a more prioritized aspect for the newer generation.

Societal Roles and Community Impact

Sue raises concerns about the evolving role of women in the workforce and its impact on community dynamics. She observes that as more women ascend to high-powered roles, their traditional roles in community-building and maintaining social ties may be diminished.

Notable Quote:
Sue Douglas (04:58): "Women are so much a part of the community and they notice when the little old guy doesn't come out for his paper or the dog has run over into the wreck and got run over, or someone's lost something. Now they're running Goldman Sachs or whatever else they are doing, they're not in the community. Which leaves the community rudderless."

This observation underscores the critical role women play in both the economic and social fabrics of society, questioning who will hold the communal reins as more women move into executive positions.

Addressing Pay Disparity and Workplace Inequities

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the persistent issue of pay disparity between men and women. Sue recounts a conversation with Larry Summers, former Chancellor of Harvard, who controversially suggested that women's participation in the workforce can drive down wages in certain professions.

Notable Quote:
Sue Douglas (05:28): "Larry Summers... said... women are so ambitious to be included in that workforce and they have the talent of course to do it that they'll do it for less money and they bring the wages of professions like teaching, law and medicine as they flood it and they're more capable of doing that down. So no man can enter that."

James Reed counters Summers' viewpoint by citing recent data that shows women earn on average $10,000 less than men, highlighting systemic workplace disadvantages that need rectification.

Notable Quote:
James Reed (06:13): "Our latest data shows that women on average earn $10,000 less than men... it’s the employer who decides."

Both acknowledge that while legal frameworks exist to address pay gaps, employer practices and societal agreements continue to perpetuate these disparities.

Personal Reflections and Societal Constructs

Sue reflects on her own upbringing and the compromises she made between her career and family life, expressing no regrets but a keen awareness of the sacrifices involved. She emphasizes the need to rethink how societal contributions are constructed, advocating for a more inclusive approach that doesn't sideline community engagement.

Notable Quote:
Sue Douglas (07:07): "I'm observant... women in a man's world. But a man's world isn't the world. A man's world is that work world. And that's where the interesting point about work life balance comes."

She critiques the narrow focus on professional success at the expense of community and familial responsibilities, urging for a broader understanding of leadership that encompasses both.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with James Reed thanking Sue Douglas for her candid and thought-provoking insights. He encourages listeners to engage with further content, hinting at an upcoming part three that promises to deliver more gripping journalism and in-depth discussions.

Notable Quote:
James Reed (07:40): "Thanks for listening to All About Business Shorts, which Sue Douglas. For another piece of gripping journalism, listen to part three. See you next time."

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Key Takeaways

• Balancing Act: Sue Douglas highlights the intricate balance women must maintain between pursuing high-powered careers and fulfilling familial roles, challenging conventional narratives that suggest incompatibility.

• Societal Impact: The shift of women into executive roles raises concerns about the potential decline in community-focused contributions traditionally handled by women, posing questions about societal structure and support systems.

• Workplace Inequities: Persistent pay gaps and discriminatory practices in the workplace remain significant barriers for women, necessitating collective efforts to ensure fair and equitable treatment.

• Evolving Perspectives: The new generation is prioritizing work-life balance, signaling a shift in societal values towards more holistic definitions of success and well-being.

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This episode offers a nuanced exploration of the challenges faced by women in leadership roles, the societal implications of shifting gender dynamics, and the ongoing struggle for equality in the workplace. Sue Douglas's candid reflections provide valuable insights for business leaders, entrepreneurs, and anyone navigating the complexities of balancing professional ambition with personal commitments.

Transcript

[James Reed]

Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests who bootstrapped companies, masterminded investment models, or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field, and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture. Welcome to All About Business shorts, where I'm joined by journalist, entrepreneur and tech CEO Sue Douglas. She talks to me in this episode about being a woman in the macho world of journalism.

[Sue Douglas]

And I think that men and women are different in many ways. And partially it's biological, partially it's, you know, actual, genuine physiology, but it's history. And that the thing I haven't talked about is that women can have children and traditionally have been the ones who look after those children. And I think a lot of women have struggled with the choice of, well, it's that I can be chief executive of Goldman Sachs or I can have children. But how do you have both? And again, one of my favorite people in the world, Germaine Greer, used to say, well, you can't. And I used to think, but we can and we have to. But it's a compromise. But is it a bad compromise? Maybe. As I'm getting older, I think that men can have more things on both sides without being so driven and focused back to our point about ambition and what you can achieve. But I look back on it and I think I have three children. And I've said to them, now they're.

[James Reed]

Older, boys or girls?

[Sue Douglas]

I've got boy, girl, boy.

[James Reed]

What do you say to your daughter?

[Sue Douglas]

Well, this is interesting. We're in a pub and I'm with a group of people. Like, we're having this conversation now. And she's with some friends, and I know she's listening in because women are aware of these things. And I turn to her and I say, so I wasn't there for you, was I? Because I was deputy editor when she was quite young, and I was in Fleet street, and I was this, and I was there, and I used to come in at midnight and they're asleep. And I have some harrowing little notes from her and the others, where are you, Mommy? And she went, no, you weren't there. And I think. And she says, but you were an inspiration, that we can do other things, too. But perhaps even more poignantly, my son, who has done very well, works for Rothschild in M and A now and who's 30. He and I had a mum and son weekend recently, which is really important to me that we have these relationships and I hadn't really talked to him, he's married now and he's doing really well and we went for long walks together and we had. He actually, not prompted, said, well, you weren't there for us and that really hurt me. And he said, but you were a crap mother at times, but when you were here you were a really brilliant mother and it kind of set a different standard. And I know how lucky I've been and we're very honest with each other now in this older relationship. But frankly I had serial nannies and that's made me really think about what can I say to both men and women like my children, I have both. I can't say, oh, men are the ones who earn the money and women are the ones who bring up the children. But I remember when David Cameron was talking about really trying to the scale of happiness in society and trying to reboot communities and it was quite premature in many ways. I think we think about it and the current generation of youngsters think about it a lot more that it's not just work, it's work life balance. And I thought about how women are so much a part of the community and they notice when the little old guy doesn't come out for his paper or the dog has run over into the wreck and got run over, or someone's lost something, they notice those things because they're in the community and now they're running Goldman Sachs or whatever else they are doing, they're not in the community. Which leaves the community rudderless. And in a secular society with more and more women being engaged in the whole economic drive, who's looking after society and communities? And I don't know. And I was kind of living that and delegating in many ways my children's childhood and I. It's no good regretting things, but I'm observant of it that women in a man's world. But a man's world isn't the world. A man's world is that work world. And that's where the interesting point about work life balance comes.

[James Reed]

Yeah, but maybe being corrected by the new generation prioritizes itself.

[Sue Douglas]

I think it is. I mean, what do you think, do you think it is with your children?

[James Reed]

I think it's an interesting observation you make about society perhaps suffering and how the balance could be re. Recalibrated, if that's right.

[Sue Douglas]

What do you think of this as well? Larry Summers, who I got to know quite well at Harvard. Chancellor of Harvard. So I just flown over, so I'm jet lagged and everything else. And we're having dinner with Neil and various other luminaries at Harvard and we were talking about exactly this and he said, well, with more women in the workforce, women are so ambitious to be included in that workforce and they have the talent of course to do it that they'll do it for less money and they bring the wages of professions like teaching, law and medicine as they flood it and they're more capable of doing that down. So no man can enter that. And I was so angry with him and I've thought about it, it's haunted me because there's an element of truth in it.

[James Reed]

I don't agree with him. I do, I do see that phenomena. I mean our latest data read data shows that women on average earn 10,000 less than men.

[Sue Douglas]

Yeah.

[James Reed]

Just as a, as a group. And that have all sorts of disadvantages in the workplace that should be corrected. But it's the employer who decides.

[Sue Douglas]

Yeah, but the employer can easily say, oh well, I get all the best women, I can pay less.

[James Reed]

Well that's. But they shouldn't be doing that.

[Sue Douglas]

Well, what about whether he.

[James Reed]

Well, we wouldn't do that. I can say categorically. But that seems to be a pattern that's happening though. It must be if women are being paid less because we're prepared to do.

[Sue Douglas]

It for less now that's important too.

[James Reed]

Yeah. So a deal has been done, hasn't it? So there's been an agreement between employer and employee or worker and employer and. Yeah. So you're saying there's something there that women.

[Sue Douglas]

I don't think it's right, but there's lots of things that are wrong. And again back to why did I ever love journalism? It's not there's a right or a wrong. I just want people to think twice about what we're doing, doing and, and I in no way am I saying, oh, women should stay at home so they can look after the dog, not getting run over or the little old man over the street or look after your children even. I'm not saying that. It's how we construct a way to contribute. Not equally. I don't want to be a man. I don't want to be the person who says, let's do a piece about, you know, women's socks, losing socks in the washing machine.

[James Reed]

Thanks for listening to All About Business Shorts, which Sue Douglas. For another piece of gripping journalism, listen to part three. See you next time.