Jay'sAnalysis Podcast: "Christian Zionism? Josie the Redhead Libertarian + Jay Dyer"

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Josie (the Redhead Libertarian)
Guest: Jay Dyer

Episode Overview

This episode tackles the contentious subject of Christian Zionism—its origins, theological meaning, and political implications. Host Josie welcomes philosopher and commentator Jay Dyer for a deep dive into the incompatibility between Christian Zionism and historic Christian theology, the origins of dispensationalism, the political motivations behind modern Zionist movements, and the manipulation of theology for geopolitical ends. The episode also features robust Q&A and debate with listeners on the topics of Israel, biblical prophecy, and church history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Zionism and Christian Zionism

• Zionism: Jay explains it as primarily a 19th-century political movement aiming to establish a Jewish homeland; it has both religious and secular (often socialist) founders—Theodor Herzl, Moses Hess, and the Rothschild involvement from the 1860s onward.
  (09:20) Jay Dyer:

  “Zionism is a political movement... it does have a quasi religious association due to the idea that the Jews have a promised homeland... But it’s incompatible, first of all with Christianity on any flavor, because Christianity... believes that Christ is the fulfillment of all of these Old Testament prophecies and types.”

• Christian Zionism: Involves Christians supporting Jewish claims to the land of Israel based on a belief in unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies. Jay argues this doctrine contradicts orthodox Christian theology by reinvesting religious meaning in Old Covenant promises that, he insists, are fulfilled in Christ.
  (14:10) Jay Dyer:

  “For orthodox Christianity... Christ is the fulfillment... and the nation state of Israel... was a type or a foreshadowing of the realities that would come, namely the Christian church.”

2. Dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible

• Origins: Dispensationalism, a 19th-century British theological innovation, divides history into separate dispensations in which God relates to humanity differently. Pioneered by John Nelson Darby (Plymouth Brethren). (15:53) Jay Dyer:

  “Dispensationalism is a theology that emerged in the late 1800s... run by a guy named John Nelson Darby... divided up into these arbitrary sections where God dealt with man according to a plan A, a plan B...”

• Scofield Bible’s Impact: The Scofield Reference Bible (early 20th century) spread dispensationalism in America, aligning evangelical sentiment behind the Zionist project and influencing US foreign policy. (18:47) Jay Dyer:

  “There’s no question... many of the important people who work even with Trump... many presidents, all the way back to Billy Graham... were influenced by these types of, you know, pro-Israel, AIPAC, pro end-times, Zionist... think tanks and groups.”

3. Geopolitics & Soft Power

• Religion is a tool for statecraft, both by the British Empire and the US, to generate soft power at home and abroad. Evangelical support for Israel has been nurtured deliberately. (21:05) Jay Dyer:

  “The state has always understood, going back to the ancient world, the power of religion... And so it wants to utilize any possible means. And that could be Hollywood, it could also be religion.”

4. Biblical Discussion: Promises, Fulfillment, and Prophecy

• Who are the real heirs of God's promise?—Jay maintains that, according to New Testament texts (Galatians, Hebrews), the church fulfills Israel’s promises; the land promise is spiritualized. (26:49) Jay Dyer:

  “The statement is said to Abraham, I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you... that’s now applicable to the church. It is not applicable to those... who are merely fleshly circumcised.”

• Does the Bible promise a physical nation forever? Jay asserts that the covenant was broken by unfaithfulness, leading to Israel’s destruction in AD 70, as prophesied by Jesus. Only those with faith are true Israel. (29:43) Jay Dyer:

  “God does keep his faithfulness to the covenant of Israel, which is the true Israel, the church, from Genesis all the way to the end of the world. But he also divorced Israel and kept that promise when in 70 A.D. israel’s destroyed by Titus Vespasian...”

• “Judaizing” & Christian practice: Kissing the Wailing Wall or supporting a future physical temple is, for historic Christians, an act of defiance of Christ’s fulfillment of the Old Covenant. (24:32) Jay Dyer:

  "It's sort of a sign of deference... nothing really to do with the real theology. It's more so to do with geopolitical subservience."

5. Debate Segment: Listener Q&A

• A lively debate occurs (from 37:08 on), with various callers expressing different readings of prophecy and history. Jay pushes back forcefully, defending the orthodox position and critiquing literalist/fundamentalist interpretations. Key Moment:
  (41:32) Jay Dyer:

  “So your pre-millennial heresy is the root problem of this. Which means that you’re a judaizer.”

• Jay insists the kingdom is now, within the Church, and physical fulfillment is not required; peace is spiritual, the “end times” refers to past events (70 AD), not modern Israel’s founding.

6. The Practical Consequences: Christian Foreign Policy and Aid to Israel

• Jay and Josie agree that Christian Zionism's influence on US foreign policy often serves interests not aligned with either American interests or authentic Christian teaching. (50:21) Jay Dyer:

  “It’s just destructive... It’s not that Jews shouldn’t have a homeland... But the problem is that Americans are forced into... this ridiculous empire... all the money is stolen, funneled into just nonsense.”

7. Historical Roots and British Israelism

• Jay and a supporting guest note that Christian Zionism’s roots in Anglo-American Protestantism go back to earlier British Israelite ideas. These predate dispensationalism and link British identity with biblical prophecy and Zion. (55:50) Jay Dyer:

  “Even before Scofield and Darby, you had Anglican ministers... who were British Israelite theory proponents... That prepared the way for Scofieldism.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dispensationalism
  (15:53) Jay Dyer:

  “This seven chopped up, sort of schizophrenic view of history where God keeps changing what he wants to do, ends up putting a severance between God’s relationship to the nation of Israel and God’s relationship to the Church.”

• On Kissing the Wailing Wall
  (24:32) Jay Dyer:

  “The motivations... for why many politicians do it today... is sort of a sign of deference... nothing really to do with... real theology... It’s more so to do with geopolitical subservience.”

• On US Foreign Policy
  (18:47) Jay Dyer:

  “The CIA was very interested in using both Catholicism and Evangelical Protestantism as a form of American soft power... Billy Graham was also kind of a mouthpiece in a lesser degree for the CIA in terms of soft power.”

• On Christian Zionism's Fruit
  (70:13) Jay Dyer:

  “Anything that is a heresy or anything that’s heterodox cannot produce good results... So I would say it has to be overall assessed as something that is... bad fruit... to support the removal and deletion of those people [Palestinian Christians] amounts ultimately to persecuting... the Christian church.”

Key Timestamps for Reference

• 06:42 – Introduction of Jay Dyer
• 09:20 – Jay defines Zionism, Christian Zionism, and their incompatibility with Christian theology
• 15:53 – What is Dispensationalism?
• 18:47 – Scofield Bible’s impact and the religious right
• 20:56 – Why the state uses religion and American soft power abroad
• 24:32 – Discussion on the religious and political meaning of the Wailing Wall
• 26:49 – The “bless those who bless you” promise and its modern use
• 29:43 – Scriptural case for Israel’s covenant ending in 70 AD
• 37:08+ – Listener debate and theological exchange
• 50:21 – Jay on Orthodox Christian response to US aid to Israel
• 55:50 – British Israelism and the roots of Christian Zionism
• 70:13 – Is Christian Zionism “net good” or “net bad” for Christianity?
• 73:02 – Jay plugs his books and where to find them

Final Thoughts

The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of Christian Zionism, blending historical context, theological critique, and commentary on present-day geopolitics. Jay Dyer argues that modern forms of Christian Zionism are historically and theologically untenable, rooted in recent innovations (dispensationalism, Scofield Bible), and wielded as tools of political manipulation rather than genuine religious conviction. The lively debate section exemplifies stark divides among Christians on interpretation, authority, and prophecy.

Jay’s bottom line: For traditional Christians, the promises to Israel are fulfilled in Christ and his Church, not in contemporary geopolitical arrangements, and the leveraging of biblical prophecy for modern statecraft distorts both theology and policy.

Links:

• Jay Dyer’s work: jsanalysis.com
• Twitter/X: @Jay_Dyer