Epstein: The Movie That Revealed the Hidden Reality: Dasha Nekrasova's Scary of Sixty-First

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jay'sAnalysis – “Epstein: The Movie That Revealed the Hidden Reality: Dasha Nekrasova’s Scary of Sixty-First”

Host: Jay Dyer
Guest: Dasha Nekrasova
Date: February 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features filmmaker, actress, and Red Scare podcast co-host Dasha Nekrasova, focusing on her artistic journey, her film "The Scary of Sixty-First," and her perspectives on contemporary culture and politics. Jay and Dasha discuss the thematic influences behind her films, particularly the handling of the Epstein scandal, the occult in Hollywood, and the depiction of evil and trauma in modern society. They also touch upon political realignment, cancel culture, and Dasha’s personal experiences navigating the film industry.

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Dasha’s Artistic and Personal Background

• Early Life:
  • Dasha was born in Belarus to gymnast parents in the Soviet athletics program. She moved to Las Vegas after her father began working for Cirque du Soleil. (00:48)
  • Attended a magnet arts high school for visual art in Las Vegas, then studied philosophy at university in Oakland, focusing on Nietzsche. (02:58–03:29)

“I wrote my final paper on Nietzsche. I was very, like, 19th-century German with a Nietzsche specific focus.” -- Dasha (03:29)

• Transition to Film:

  • Initially considered graduate school but chose to pursue acting in LA, later moving to New York. (04:06–06:11)
  • Broke into indie film with “Wobble Palace,” later working on "The Softness of Bodies" and "The Scary of Sixty-First."
  • Significant career breakthroughs followed her move to New York in 2018. (06:11)

• Podcasting and Political Commentary:

  • Co-created the Red Scare podcast, which began with cultural commentary and evolved into more explicitly political themes as culture shifted. (10:06)

“Red Scare’s more, when we started, it definitely was more like cultural commentary. And then gradually, like the culture just became more political, fortunately or unfortunately.” -- Dasha (10:06)

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Creative Influences and Film Discussion

The Softness of Bodies

• Tone and Approach:
  • Jay praises the film’s unexpected comedic elements, referencing Dasha’s character and the decision to give her a silver tooth. (02:09)
• Poetry and Dark Satire:
  • Dasha admits the poetry in the film was her own, noting that real poetry is “an unemployed person’s vocation.” (15:30)

“You kind of can’t be a poet if you even have a job. I feel like it’s kind of an unemployed person’s vocation…” -- Dasha (15:30)

• Satirizing Academia:
  • Both Jay and Dasha express disenchantment with the modern academic world, noting a lack of freedom and increasing ideological rigidity compared to the early 2010s. (04:53–05:18)

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Political Perspectives and Red Scare

• Political Positioning:
  • Dasha resists simplistic left-right categorization, describing herself as issue-focused and wary of aligning with any movement. (11:10–12:51)
  • Jay identifies a recurring theme among former “Bernie socialists” of moving right or being labeled right-wing, but Dasha maintains her ideological consistency is more about intellectual flexibility. (11:10–12:20)

“I definitely barely have, like, a coherent ideology. So…I’d like to reserve the prerogative to like change my mind about things…” -- Dasha (12:20)

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The Scary of Sixty-First: Creation and Themes

Origins and Timing

• Writing and Production:
  • Written and filmed in the immediate aftermath of Epstein’s death, spurred by Dasha’s reaction to the news and subsequent “manic episode.” (21:10–22:20)
• Main Influences:
  • Kubrick’s "Eyes Wide Shut" was a central influence, as well as the classic horror "Rosemary’s Baby" and films by David Lynch. (19:53–28:20)

“More than Rosemary’s Baby, I think the film was really like a love letter to Stanley Kubrick….it takes place in the Eyes Wide Shut extended universe.” -- Dasha (27:54, 62:18)

Thematic Exploration

• Reality of Elite Evil and Occultism:
  • Dasha sees Epstein’s world as unmistakably satanic, reflecting on imagery, esoterica, and moral rot among the wealthy. (26:33)
  • Her brief work at an esoteric bookstore and experience in Hollywood led to direct knowledge of “dark arts” culture. (31:19–32:25)
• Ritual, Trauma, and Exploitation:
  • The film’s plot follows two women who move into a Manhattan apartment linked to Epstein, leading to possession, trauma, and death. The narrative draws on sex-trafficking, abuse, and occult symbols. (34:48–61:18)
  • Incorporates real-world artifacts: depictions of owls, Moloch, tarot cards, and the blue-striped Epstein “temple” inspired by the infamous island. (31:19–49:34)

Real-World Parallels

• Vindication by Recent Revelations:
  • Jay connects the film’s themes to new Epstein files and emails detailing abuse, trafficking, and the involvement of powerful figures, affirming the film's dark premise. (36:00–42:59)
• Personal Accounts:
  • Dasha attended court with a known Epstein victim and references emerging global stories of survivors and deep corruption. (38:02)
• Depiction of Abuse and Possession:
  • The film’s portrayal of trauma-induced dissociation, ritual sacrifice, and the underlying metaphysical evil is rooted in both personal research and symbolic logic. (53:51, 60:10)

“So, like, at first she’s, like, mildly dissociated, kind of having these outbursts. And then the scene where she’s, like, smearing her, like, menstrual blood on the walls. My thinking was kind of like that she’s in this, like, psycho-sexual obsessive state that’s connected to this, like, pedophilic desire.” -- Dasha (53:51)

Symbolism and Occult Imagery

• Owls and Moloch:
  • References to Bohemian Grove and direct symbolism from the Epstein estate and the broader world of ritual abuse. (31:19)
• Tarot and Architecture:
  • Tarot deck drawn from a real Los Angeles occult organization. (48:23)
  • Blue-striped room inspired by the Epstein temple; recent files reveal Epstein’s fascination with stripes and architecture for psychological manipulation. (44:52–46:26)
• Crowley and Ritual:
  • Jay points out overlap with Aleister Crowley’s rituals, including the role of bodily fluids in black magic, which Dasha finds disturbing but coincidentally embedded in her film. (54:42–55:49)

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Industry, Censorship, and Personal Trajectory

• Cancel Culture and Blacklisting:
  • Dasha recounts challenges within the industry due to her outspoken positions, Red Scare podcast, and interviews with controversial figures like Alex Jones. (63:27–65:53)

“Even if you aren’t trying to make, make, like a political statement, people will assume you will. Or like, what are you trying to say… it’s just too charged.” -- Dasha (64:16)

• Future Plans:
  • Focus on personal life after marriage, interested in making another film but not eager to re-engage with the film industry due to hostility. Continues to work on Red Scare. (66:16–66:54)
  • Encourages listeners to watch “The Scary of Sixty-First,” given its increasing cultural relevance and vindication by real-world events. (67:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It takes place in the Eyes Wide Shut extended universe, which was kind of my big idea.” -- Dasha (28:01)
• “When academia seemed like a safe option. I feel like those days are long gone.” -- Dasha (04:53)
• “So yeah, I was working in Thailand in 2019 and Prince Andrew came to Bangkok to do something called Pitch at Palace…” -- Dasha (41:11)
• “[Epstein’s world] …there was definitely a relationship between extreme wealth and these, like, esoteric, ritualistic practices. That it was kind of like the world’s worst secret, that this was really, like, people were up to.” -- Dasha (26:33)
• “Honestly, yeah, I think people, it’s a good time to watch Scary if you haven’t seen it. If you have, maybe watch it again…” -- Dasha (67:45)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:48: Dasha’s early life and move from Belarus to Las Vegas
• 03:29: Philosophy studies and Nietzsche focus
• 06:11: Move to New York and film industry breakthrough
• 10:06: Origins of Red Scare Podcast and political/cultural themes
• 19:53–28:20: Influences on “The Scary of Sixty-First” (Kubrick, occult, Hollywood)
• 21:10–22:20: Genesis of “Scary of Sixty-First” following Epstein’s death
• 31:19–32:25: Personal encounter with occult bookstore; symbolism in the film
• 34:48–61:18: The “Scary of Sixty-First” plot, occult abuse, dissociation, and film structure
• 36:00–42:59: Real-world vindication of themes by new Epstein revelations
• 53:51: Depiction of trauma, dissociation, and ritual
• 63:27–65:53: Cancel culture and industry blacklisting
• 66:16–66:54: Future plans and current focus on Red Scare

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Final Thoughts

Jay and Dasha’s conversation is both a deep dive into the intersection of art, politics, trauma, and the occult, and a testament to the cautionary power of independent filmmaking in a disorienting culture. Dasha’s work, particularly The Scary of Sixty-First, is portrayed as almost prophetic in its exposure of elite depravity, the exploitation of innocence, and the hidden undercurrents of evil in the contemporary world.

“It takes place in the Eyes Wide Shut extended universe.”
“People are really sleeping on ‘Scary’—maybe it’s time for a rewatch.”

Watch “The Scary of Sixty-First” on Shudder and Amazon Prime.

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Transcript

[A]

All right, what's up, everybody? I have round two. We're going to be debating the papacy and the Slavic mind once again. Just kidding. Dasha is back and we're going to be talking about her artistic achievements. She is quite the artist. I've been enjoying her films recently. I went through two of them so far. I'm looking forward, actually to watching some more of them. But I watched the Softness of Bodies and I watched the scary of 61st. So we're going to be talking about both of those today. I brushed up on some Dasha interviews. So let's start with talking about you a little bit. You're from Las Vegas, and you are Bella. Russian. How. How did you go? How did it get from Bella Rus to Vegas?

[B]

Yeah. My strange erotic journey from Minsk to Las Vegas. My parents are gymnasts. They were in the Soviet athletics program. Program. So when I was born in belarus in the 90s, they were in athletics. And then my dad was working for Cirque du Soleil when I was born. And then a couple years later, we moved to Las Vegas.

[A]

Wow. So how often do you get called a. A Russian agent? Like, every day?

[B]

Not that.

[A]

Not so much, honestly, because that could go either way. Like, you could still be a mole from Russia or your parents could have been, like, flipped to the west and you could be a CIA agent. So it could go either way, right?

[B]

You would think, yeah. And with the Russiagate stuff, especially as, like, a Trump supporter, but it's not people's go to, really.

[A]

So could I borrow €800.

[B]

800 rubles.

[A]

So I like to do that. Like, I pick out. I pick out lines from the films, and then I ask people to see if they. Sometimes. Sometimes people don't catch either. They're like, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah, I didn't catch it, actually, because I was like.

[A]

But I remember that's already eight years ago now. Right.

[B]

Longer. So the bodies I made a long time ago.

[A]

Okay. Well, it was. There was, you know, what I didn't expect, and I should have paid attention because I think it did list it as, like, art house sl. Dark satire. I didn't expect it to be as funny as it was like, you. I'm sorry, like, you with this. And I'm not just kissing butt. Like, it was actually funny. Like you with a silver tooth. That was really funny.

[B]

Like, that was. Yeah, that was something I wanted because I've long wanted, like, a gold cap. I thought it'd be cool.

[A]

Yeah, no, actually, it would be kind of cool. Like, I have a Grill. But you're like, you're trying to have all these, like, serious conversations you've got. And that one, that one German guy's like, you look like a rapper. Yeah, rapper. Okay, I'm sorry, let's get back to the discussion. Okay, so you're in Vegas. You go to acting school, drama school in Vegas, is that right?

[B]

No, I went. Yeah, I went to a magnet arts high school in Las Vegas, but I did visual art and then I went to school for philosophy in Cal. In Oakland.

[A]

You did philosophy? Well, interesting. Did you. That's your undergrad.

[B]

My undergrad, yeah.

[A]

Did you have a focus? I know that it's not like master's program where, you know, you have more focus, but sometimes in undergrad programs you can have a. A focus. Did you have a focus or an interest?

[B]

Yeah, I wrote my final paper on Nietzsche. I was very, like, 19th century German with a Nietzsche specific focus.

[A]

Interesting. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't know. Maybe we might have mentioned that last time. I don't remember when we were having that debate. Yeah, that's interesting. So you did magnet school arts, by the way? I went to arts. An arts based magnet elementary school when I was a kid.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And then I did philosophy. Yeah. So. But how did you go from philosophy then into the visual arts? What got you in that. In that direction?

[B]

Because I went to school. I went to school in the Bay Area, and then I was kind of, like, floundering because my philosophy degree was fairly useless. So I was gonna go to a. I was gonna go to, like, a master's program and keep, like, getting fake ass degrees. And then I moved to LA and decided to defer and just give, like, acting a shot.

[A]

And did that go well? Did you. Did you know it was hard. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I thought about that too. Back in the day, I almost went. I was this close to going to art school instead of doing philosophy, but I ended up doing philosophy. And then I like you, I realized, okay, this is basically worthless unless I get a PhD and teach it. And then when I was in the grad program, it was like, just lives everywhere. It was a nightmare.

[B]

So even I feel like now, yeah, it's academy. When. When academia seemed like a safe option. I feel like those days are long gone.

[A]

Was that back in the. The late 2000s, mid 2000s for you in 2012? So the.

[B]

It was like.

[A]

So the. The Mayan calendar, it all up, right?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was actually because I was in grad school around 2011. 2012. And it was a lot freer even then. Like, it was still understood that on campus or in the academic world, you had a lot more intellectual freedom so you could talk about, you know, taboo subjects without getting in trouble. And on campus it was understood. Like, we even had a professor that was like a big, you know, tiny mustache man, historian and supporter, and he would like, bring out the. You know.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, he would bring out the flag. And he didn't get canceled because he had. He had tenure and it was like 80 years old, so they tolerated him. But it's so different now. It's crazy. But anyway, we don't have to talk about all the boring. So.

[B]

So.

[A]

So you're trying out in la and then it's hard. Well, what ended up being kind of an original break for you? Because something had to click with. Did you move somewhere else? You go to New York or something? You say in la, I moved.

[B]

Yeah, I lived in. I live in New York now. I moved here in 2018. Sorry. I realized that. Yeah. So it says Softness of bodies is 2018, but I shot it. I must have shot it in, like, 2016. But, yeah, then I moved to New York and then things. A lot of things kind of clicked into place because I had done some indies and I. But I was like, I didn't have an agent or anything now, once again, I don't. But, yeah, and then when I moved here, I got some reps and, like, things just kind of picked up in the podcast and everything. And it was. But I think it was like a culmination of dues I had paid over the years. And in Los Angeles.

[A]

Did you. So the Softness of Bodies was the first kind of project that kind of put you on the scene, or did you have some other.

[B]

No, the first film I did was called Wobble Palace. I made it with this director named Eugene Kotlerenko I would work with. Worked with a couple times since then. We had a movie that came out last year called the Code, and he was. Yeah, he was the first person who.

[A]

Really, like, believed, you know, that that one's actually on my list to watch next. I was going to watch that one.

[B]

Next, but the Code's really cool.

[A]

Yeah, it looks interesting. So that's like two. So you're with a guy, he's a documentary filmmaker. You guys end up having a huge fight, and then he's gonna make a documentary about you. Is that the plot? Right.

[B]

He's my boyfriend and we're, like, shacked up during COVID and he has been Canceled. And I'm making a documentary and he starts to get paranoid that I'm going to somehow, like, weaponize all of this footage. And so he starts to secretly film me. It's like, about, like, surveillance and.

[A]

Yeah, right. Well, that's going to tie into scary of 61st, because I think a lot of the reviewers were not very fair. I read a lot of the critics and a lot of the, you know, it kind of has mid reviews, but I think now it's vindicated. We'll get into that in just a minute, but before we get to that, what got you? How did you get the succession spot? And then maybe a little bit we'll talk about the canceling stuff. If you want to. If you don't want to talk about. We don't have to.

[B]

I mean, we can, but Succession. I auditioned for. I had auditioned for the second season for a part that I didn't get cast in, and then their casting director, A.B. kaufman, called me in for the third season.

[A]

I was watching Megan Kelly discussing you, and she said that the characters in White Lotus were based on you guys. Is that true?

[B]

Yeah. Though in the. For the Sydney Sweeney and Other Girl are not, like, based on. But I think Mike White is a fan of the pod, and so he had them there. It was like a reference for him.

[A]

Oh, concurrent with all this, you start Red Scare podcasts. When I remember hearing about you. So I have a. I have a really good friend of mine that lives in Italy, and he is a huge fan of yours. If you guys. He listens to the podcast he listened for. And he told me years ago, he's like, hey, you should have an interview or try to interview Dasha. And I think I messaged you like five or six years ago, and you said something like, yeah, whatever, screw off, or whatever. I don't. It was something very dismissive. And I was like, all right, well, she's not that cool. But. So I'm glad that you actually finally came around.

[B]

I don't. Yeah, I can be a real.

[A]

Oh, sorry. I thought it was. I mean, I think I had a lot, you know, much smaller kind of audience at the time. So, you know, it's just the way media works. But. So how did Red Scare come about? And what do you always have an interest in political stuff? Because it's not common for people that are in the arts to have an interest in talking about philosophy and geopolitics.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I was on Twitter, you know, so it was the show Red Scares More when we started. It definitely was more like cultural commentary. And then gradually, like the culture just became more political, fortunately or unfortunately. And I knew Anna, we had like mutual friends in New York, but we also were like mutuals. And when I moved to New York, it was like the Chapo cometown. There was like, there was a real like, niche in the market for like a girl, right?

[A]

Yeah. I remember I tried to set up a debate with the Chapo Trap House people one time and they were like, you retard. So I love how media works like that. Like, everybody just kind of dismisses you. But. So did you have a move though from. Is it correct that you guys went from like, you were like the Bernie socialist thing? Did you legitimately move right, or would you say that you're not really right or would you say that it's ambiguous?

[B]

I don't see like, yeah, partisan distinctions as being that meaningful. I understand why people say that. The Bernie to alt right pipeline or whatever. Like, I do understand what they mean when they say that, but I don't think my views have ultimately changed that much. And I don't think I am like that right wing.

[A]

I was gonna say probably you think that that's a managed dialectic to a degree. I mean, if you're a. If you read a lot of Nietzsche, you would probably not fall into kind of low tier left. Right. I would assume. Right.

[B]

I'm a free thinker, you know.

[A]

Do you go by the issues like. And I'm not, I'm not. I've not actually listened to much Red Scare. I've heard a few clips, but. So I'm not exactly familiar with where you guys were politically. I did listen to Chapo Trap House back in the day. So I kind of know the, the sphere that you're talking about. But is it just issue by issue? Like, would you. Would you have criticism of American foreign policy, but a different view on social moral ethics or something like that?

[B]

Yeah, I don't think. I definitely don't have like an agenda. I definitely barely have like a coherent ideology. So I'd say, yeah, I kind of like. And I want, you know, I'd like to reserve the prerogative to like change my mind about things too, as I receive more information. So yeah, I'd be hesitant to like, align with any like, single strain of thought or movement.

[A]

I had all these questions. I got all lost in the realm of political nonsense. I don't really even care about Paul. I like geopolitics a lot, but. So back to softness of bodies. A couple questions I had did you did. Was this influenced at all? Do you remember Before Sunrise with Ethan Hawke? Have you seen that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is this like the millennial version of the Gen X Before Sunrise? You know what I mean?

[B]

I don't know. You'd have to ask the director, honestly. But Before Sunrise is about, like. I, I'm not a big fan. I haven't watched them in a long time. Maybe I would like them more now, but I find them a little, like, saccharine. And maybe that's like the Gen X kind of like earnestness or something.

[A]

Yeah, I actually haven't seen the second and third one, or I think I might have seen the second one, but the first one is just like, you know, supposed to capture this on we. That Gen X had that they, you know, are agnostic and they don't really have any positions on anything. And, you know, they're sort of complaining about boomers, which overlaps with millennials, but the. They're sort of, sort of wandering around Paris, right? And they're. And they have this one night stand and doesn't mean anything. And it's, it's, you know, it's supposed to capture like the, the millennial zeitgeist. And so as I was watching this, I was like, is this kind of like that? But of course, I wrote that note before I got to the end where, Spoiler alert. You're. You're basically a completely psychopathic, I would say, right? I mean, like, you, you have no moral qualms whatsoever. Which is interesting because I didn't actually think it was going to go in that direction. I think that that made it a really good film was. You get this big twist. Spoiler alert. But what do you think? Is that. Is that accurate with your character?

[B]

I think, yeah. Whereas, like, Gen Xers had, yeah, this kind of, like, apathy that was still really sincere with Millennials. It's. There's like, an irony that's really nihilistic.

[A]

I also thought it was funny, too, the way that poetry majors are kind of portrayed and satirized. Like, I'm assuming it was kind of making fun of them because when I was in undergrad and grad school, there was a lot of these kind of. The weird little poetry majors were always just kind of oddballs and poetry majors, like a level below philosophy, so nobody takes them seriously. And that's like, even worse for a profession is having a. A poetry major. Right. You're not going to have any work unless you're one guy who writes a book or your professor, I guess. But Are you actually into poetry? Did you get into poetry for the role?

[B]

No, I was. The poetry in the film is my own. I definitely. Well, I was going to say, yeah, like, you kind of can't be a poet if you even have a job. I feel like it's kind of an unemployed person's vocation, so I'm not. Yeah, I don't write poetry as much anymore because I feel like there's almost a relationship with, like, you have to be kind of, like, marginal to be good at it.

[A]

So this is. This is kind of a. A dumb normie question, but I have to ask. So are we supposed to think that she did get the. The grant?

[B]

Honestly, I don't remember. I think so because she.

[A]

So basically, you ride away after you do the. It's. You and Sylvie are like the last two, right? And then you're performing before those weirdo oddballs. And then you ride away on your. On the bicycle that you. You notice that your bicycle was parked there. And then you re. You resteel your bike. Your bike. Are we supposed to.

[B]

Charlotte triumphs in the end.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. So basically, yeah, she. She was willing to do anything to succeed, including framing her. Her ex for the murder, which was pretty funny. But it was a great dark satire. It looked like you were having a lot of fun. And you went to Germany. It looks like you shot that in Germany, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, in Berlin. Yeah. The bike sequences were fun because we shot them all over the course of, like, two days. So we had two full days of just, like, biking around.

[A]

That's a lot more fun than if you're shooting a TV show in two weeks because all you do is sit in a chair for. When we shot my TV shows, just two weeks of sitting in a chair all day long. And so a whole season of a show is shot within two weeks, but every day. That was crazy. Yeah, from like, six in the morning and. Or eight in the morning until, like, six at nine. It was nuts. But one time I was almost passed out. But, like, have you done any acting situations where it was, like, so intense like that, where you thought you're gonna pass out or you got, like, extremely.

[B]

I'm pretty sensitive, so. Yeah. So it doesn't take, like, mostly, like, inclement weather. I deal. Don't deal with.

[A]

Well, was the Silver Tooth your idea or did that. Was that the director's idea?

[B]

It was my idea. I worked on the script with the director.

[A]

I was gonna say. Yeah, it seemed like you. There's a lot of you in that character. Yeah, it's not the murder. Is the murdering psychopathy in there or not?

[B]

It's a. It's a collaboration that I contributed.

[A]

All right, let's see. I think that's most of my questions about that. So let's move on then. I thought it was pretty interesting. You had a funny line with your. Your criminal defense, which was where you start defending yourself with the culture industry. So is that, like, some Frankfurt School line of defense? That was funny.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. Where I'm just, like, a victim of, like, capitalism that's produced these desires that causes me to steal. Yeah, I was really into that stuff in college, too.

[A]

Yeah. Right. Now, I. I had. My professor was from the Frankfurt School, so I had a lot of input from that ideology. But did you. Do you have a struggle with being a klepto, or is that. Was that just purely the character?

[B]

I used to steal more before I was Catholic, and now. I wouldn't say I was ever, like, full on septo, but I got caught stealing at Sephora, like, a decade ago.

[A]

Interesting. Just an impulse thing, or was it, like a thrill thing, or.

[B]

No, I think that is how I justified it to myself. Well, I was broke, too.

[A]

Oh, right. Yeah. Well, I'm a victim. I'm broke.

[B]

If I want them, it's because, like. I mean. Yeah, I think I did write that spiel in the court scene.

[A]

Yeah, that was. That was. That was legit funny. I was laughing at that.

[B]

It probably was, yeah. Reflective of how I really felt.

[A]

Okay, so let's move on to your big project, scary of 61st. I would say my. My immediate thought was, okay, so this is like, Mulholland Drive, Rosemary's Baby, Eyes Wide Shut influenced very much.

[B]

So. Yeah. Not Mulholland Drive so much, but I understand.

[A]

Well, some of the sequences where people are, like. When there's the choking and there's, like, an almost dissociating kind of stuff happening that reminded me of kind of, like, David Lynchy sequences. And, like, if you watched. Have you seen Firewalk with me? Yeah, yeah, there was some of that reminded me of that stuff. But anyway, so that was something I didn't set out.

[B]

Well, the interesting thing about Mulholland Drive is that it was really, like, created in the edit, you know? And so those things, I think, also with Scary came out. It wasn't something I, like, sought out to do. But then once I was cutting it, I realized that there was, like, that me and Betsy's character. Yeah. Had these kind of, like, similarities that could be visually extrapolated on.

[A]

Yeah. That's an interesting question. So, yeah, Mahal and Dry was supposed to be a pilot originally, and then it was cut into, you know, something different for. For film. Was that. Is that kind of what happened with you, where you, like, were editing and then you realized you could go in a different direction?

[B]

No, it's pretty true to script. It wasn't like a total departure. But then there were things that me and my editor found that probably give it that. Mulholland Drive.

[A]

Yes. Gotcha. So where did the original idea for this Spring into your mind? What inspired you?

[B]

Well, so Epstein died in August 2019 in Sep. And I. Yeah, I had like a break.

[A]

You had what now?

[B]

What'd you say, like a mental breakdown? Well, I had like a. I think I. I think I had a manic episode.

[A]

How come? What do you mean?

[B]

Because I thought it was just so crazy. And obviously he didn't kill himself. And it just really like. I think I was already kind of like unstable. And then when Epstein died, like, something just like, cracked and I was like, functional. I wasn't, you know, institutionalized or anything, but I was in a very, like, heightened and sensitive state. And me and my co writer, Maddie Quinn, who's the brunette in the movie, we started writing the script in like, September, and then we shot the movie in January of 2020. So we worked in like a super compressed timeline and basically kind of made it like in the immediate aftermath of Epstein dying.

[A]

Is separate side issue. We'll go back to the film in a second. Is that kind of what moved you in the direction of considering Eastern Catholicism, or was that not on the table yet? Like, you said that you had this sort of.

[B]

That was part of it, yeah.

[A]

What. And did you hear something, religiously speaking, that made you interested in that, or do you have a uni8 background? I can't remember what you said the last time.

[B]

No, no, I was. I was Roman Catholic baptized and I. I didn't become a Byzantine Catholic until. Until later, but I was. Yeah, I was like becoming Catholic again basically around this. Around.

[A]

Around the 2020 period.

[B]

2019. 2020, yeah.

[A]

So you guys decide to sit down and write this and you're basically. This is your film, right? I mean. I mean, you and her, obviously, but like this. You wrote, directed, and starred in this. So would you say, like, this is your baby, right?

[B]

It's. Yeah, sure. I mean, directing is. Yeah.

[A]

Did you. I think the first initial thing that really surprised me as I was watching this because this is really providential synchronicity. Timing too, because I Watched this, you know, three or four days back when we were gonna. Five days, whenever it was. We're gonna do this, this original. The interview originally and then like two days later, all of this new, you know, dump has just come out. Epstein wise. And it's just like so much crazier than people even thought that the. It's just like there's almost a prophetic element. So I'm wondering like, did you study or have like a source that was telling you, like, oh no, this is what's really going on. Or did you read like Whitney. Did you read any books, like Whitney Webb's book or something like that? Like, what was your source in terms of like. Or was it just Googling and blogging geocities type information?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, when in 2019, it was like they had already released the black book and the flight logs and stuff. Like there already was a very similar thing to what's happening now and what I think, I mean, they're gonna like breadcrumb these files indefinitely. And I think it's. People are a little bit like, there's obviously political utility to win and why they release the files. Like, I don't think people's like conspiratorial thinking should stop short at like the release of the files. You have to like stay vigilant and like think about like when and why and what you're even being told. But no, I. Yeah, so I was doing. Doing a lot of like personal research and then when we started writing the script, a lot of it became. There. I. It had a function in that I wanted to really. Because there's so much like visual vocabulary that you have to establish. So. Yeah, like. Well, you remember the island videos and stuff. What was that guy's name? It was like a King of the Hill characters. Rusty Shackelford.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was this guy who was posting the island videos. Yeah, yeah, I was doing self directed research.

[A]

Well, one thing that has kind of been, I guess to a degree vindicated was elements of like the satanic or, you know, the demonic here. Because, you know, you made that a big part of the story for you in relation indirectly to the Epstein stuff. But what made you think that it was Satanic? Because again, like, if we go back to then there was the Leslie Wexner stuff where he says that he's possessed by a dybbu, which is, you know, demonic obviously. But like there wasn't a whole lot of the occult type of, you know, overlap there. So how did you key into that? Or was it just because you like Rosemary's Baby?

[B]

No, I think I was. I mean, the island, obviously, like, the imagery, the themes that emerged are to me fairly, like, obviously satanic. And just in general, I think also maybe being in Hollywood for the period that I was, and like, the rich people that I did know seem to have this kind of, like, moral rot and that there was definitely a relationship between extreme wealth and these, like, esoteric, ritualistic practices. That it was kind of like the world's worst secret, that this was really, like, people were up to. And so with scary, I really wanted. Because I, Yeah, I foresaw that there would be, like, media produced about Epstein, but I wanted to make something that felt really, like, emotionally true, at least, like, to my experience at the time. So that was a big thread. And more than Rosemary's Baby, I think the film was really like a love letter to Stanley Kubrick.

[A]

Yes. I was gonna say definitely Eyes Wide Shut, especially with the ending, which we'll get to that in a minute. But yeah, I mean, it takes place.

[B]

In the Eyes Wide Shut extended universe, which was kind of my big idea. And so a lot of the research I did pertaining specifically to, like, evil was more related to Kubrick.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna. I've been talking to Vivian and she's. She's gonna do a podcast with me and we're gonna. We're gonna try to get into a lot of these topics. It took me for, like. It took me like, three years to get her to finally agree to do a podcast, but because one of the reasons she didn't like the fact that I had done a. The show with Jay Wiedner, because Wiedner has all these kind of out there theories about Kubrick. So I finally convinced her to do it, but that's actually where I was going to go next, was the question about Hollywood and the Satanic. Because, you know, I. I got into this indirectly through I was doing grad work on Ian Fleming and how psychological warfare works in. In fiction and media. And I wasn't really looking at the satanic, but just sort of adjacent to that was looking into a lot of Hollywood cults and the symbology. And then going back and reviewing a lot of films and noticing, like, there's. There are a lot of these weird satanic type themes. And I don'. In a corny sense of like, you know, Rosemary's Baby, but, like, more. A little more subtle, kabbalistic type stuff. Darren Aronofsky films are very Kabbalistic, for example. So I'm curious, like, do you I know you weren't, like, necessarily at the Eyes Wide Shut parties in Hollywood, but, like, would you say that that overall thesis is actually fairly accurate? That Hollywood is kind of satanic in a certain sense?

[B]

Yeah, I'd say. Yeah. I mean, even in a really mundane way that people. That isn't, like, so sinister, I think it's obviously, like. It just isn't Christian. And there's, like. It's really driven by this, like, fear of death, which you saw with Epstein also with his, like, transhumanist stuff. Transhumanism stuff. Right? Yeah. Hollywood feels very, like transhumanist, like, in an innate way.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I got a whole chapter on Hollywood transhumanism. I'm gonna send you my trilogy. You'll see there's. If you. If you get time to read it, you'll see that there's a whole section on transhumanist films. But so. So the symbolism, which we. Obviously, we cover that quite a bit. That's part. Big part of my books. You put quite a bit of symbolism into this. I noticed. For first off, you have these owls. You know, obviously there's. At his island shack, temple, whatever that massage parlor, whatever that room is. That building is like. There's an owl there. You put. I was there an owl. I think there is an owl. Or at least I know there's a moloch at the end. In the. In the room. Right. You put a moloch up. So that was interesting because it did come out yesterday that Epstein was talking about meeting some of the Bohemian Grove people and that he wanted to have a better sense of Bohemian Grove. So did that play a role in. In your thinking here with the owl?

[B]

For sure. Honestly, before I even moved to la, I had an experience right after I graduated college. I got a job at an esoteric bookstore called Owl and Company that was owned. This was in the Bay Area. It was like, this crowliest guy who sold, like, antique manuscripts. And he was pure evil. I was, like, super naive, like, fresh out of college. Thought, like, you know, I was like, this is great. I love, like, dusty old books and, like, esoterica. And then I was like, oh, no, no. Like, the dark arts are real. And the people that are into this are, like, really sick and twisted.

[A]

No. Well, yeah, Acroleans especially, they're always into just discussing stuff. But. But that's funny because obviously that played into the scene in the film with. When you guys go to the Crystal Bookstore. That guy's a total douchebag. So that. That had to have Influenced that, right?

[B]

Probably. But that was a kind of Eyes Wide Shut, like one to one, when Tom Cruise goes to.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

The Allen Cummings scene.

[A]

So to get into this, to give people who haven't seen the film, I'm gonna. I mean, I'm gonna try to talk about without.

[B]

People should really watch it. They're sleeping on it.

[A]

They are sleeping on it. That's why I. I think maybe it'll get kind of a reassessment and people that like. Because a lot of the critic. I was reading the reviews and it was like, you can tell they're obviously totally normie NPC people who have like no clue of what's really going on. They're like, this movie focuses on too many conspiracy theories. Like, dude, what the fuck are you talking? Like this is all real. It's like just idiot reviews. But most reviewers are that way. Actually. It's a lot of normies. So, okay, so basically we have two girls that are friends that are moving into and looking for an apartment, right? They get this. It's almost Dakota building vibe going with this. This apartment they think that they found, which is apparently appears to be perfect. The guy that's showing the apartment, of course, is going to be a villain later on in the film. Very weird, kind of off offset, very campy, kind of a 70s horror vibe going on here. That was all. I think I like the retro throwback aspects, but we start to notice that Addie, the blonde girl, is off, right? She's had something's weird. She's having these nightmares. She's waking up, she's. And then she starts to dissociate. Her friend, the brunette, who, the co writer, she is a total. She's really rude. And you. I. I was wondering as I was watching, I was like, why is this chick so. Dude, she's so mean. And then as you get towards the end of the film, we're gonna figure out why. But I think the first thing that surprised me when I was watching was I didn't expect as they are, you know, getting this apartment settling in. Right away when you show up, there's these Epstein references, right? So you show up at the door and then they're like, it's some Jehovah's Witnessy chick, which is a good line. And then you come in, you start to talk about what's happening, what you think's happening. And Greg, by the way, Greg is a great normie character who again, just has no clue the entire time.

[B]

He's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, Greg was. Greg was really Funny. So what. How, how did you get to the point of knowing, like the diso. Like trauma based mind control? Like, what keyed you into that? Because, like, there's almost, I think, references to MK Ultra sex kitten type stuff here. Is that that's what's going on?

[B]

That's a good question. And I'm not sure. I think, yeah, we wanted her to have had some trauma in her past that made her kind of a vessel for whatever, like, possession or entity that like, comes to inhabit her. So I think we wanted, yeah, her character to be kind of damaged. And maybe in an early draft there was more of a, like a misdirection where you thought maybe Addie's character was the like, villain. But in whatever subsequent drafts, I think it changed.

[A]

Well, what's wild about that, and this is probably the craziest part, is that everybody sort of assumed and sort of expected this with, you know, the Epstein stuff. And then in the last two days, what has dropped absolutely confirms that. So we have the reference to. Since this is on YouTube, I'll spell it out. T O R T U R E. I'm sure you saw those Epstein emails that they were talking about, the like, 8 millimeter level stuff. You know what I'm getting at? No. Yeah, so there's multiple emails where Epstein is saying, hey, can you send me the T O R T U R R E video?

[B]

I saw. I saw one.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And then there's other ones where they're talking about, oh, yeah, that was a great video, by the way. You have permission to kill her. Did you see that one?

[B]

I've seen, but it's so hard to parse kind of what's real. Just scrolling the feed, you know, Unless you're like actually taking the initiative to go through the documents yourself.

[A]

Although those are real, those are verified, you can go look those up. But what I'm saying. Go ahead.

[B]

Yeah, I believe it. I just mean in, in the experience of scrolling.

[A]

Yeah, well, what I'm saying is like the, the, the theme that you put in your film of the sort of BDSM grooming people to be these types of girls. There's multiple stories now that have come out yesterday with regard to there was a Russian girl who fell from her apartment, who had visited a little St. James when she was 18. That was a big story. Yesterday there was another girl that was interviewed, I think by RT or Russians with attitude. I forget, but where they were talking to someone who had been invited, who didn't go, and so she felt like God had Like, protected her from that. Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

Yeah, I know a girl who was abused by Epstein at Zorro Ranch.

[A]

You talked about the. Any of that or. No, I have.

[B]

Well, I've talked about it before. Yeah, she. I went to court with. I went to court with her the day it was after. I forget what they call it when they let. Because he. Because he died, they couldn't have, like a trial, so they let the victims come and, like, say what they would have said had they had their day in court. It was kind of like a procedural thing. So I went to court and there was like 30 or something victims there. And I've talked about it before, and the girl I know is a Jane Doe, so I obviously won't dox her, but it was really interesting. So I had kind of known that this was the case.

[A]

That's what I was wondering, like, because it seemed like you had to have had a person that you.

[B]

Not that I know that. I mean, know what? We had the victim's testimony even in 20.

[A]

Well, that's true, but what, What. And I'm not knocking victims. The problem is like. Like with information the past couple days, there's a lot of things that are FBI tips and, you know, testimonies, things like that, which I'm not saying those are false. It's probably.

[B]

It's just that a lot of them probably are.

[A]

Exactly. So it's hard to know from just reading people's tips and, you know, reports to the police or to the FBI or whatever to know whether those are real. But what I think's more damaging. Damaging is when you see the emails where you actually have the discussions as if, you know, these things are definitely legit. Right? Like the videos and the black. Like the blackmail and. Oh, yes, I've got this blackmail. And I mean, it's just like, like, like, oh, I've spent two days going through these non stop. And it's like, yes, we're gonna go meet with this world leader and then I'm gonna meet with the Dalai Lama and then, I mean, with the Pope and this and that. So it's like non stop. Just even to the point of Princess Die. Wasn't there a reference to Princess Die in the movie or. No, Am I thinking of something else?

[B]

I thought there was because we. Oh, another fun fact. All of the Prince Andrew, like, wedding stuff that I. I bought that before that interview had even come out because I was, like, working on the script and I kind of. Oh. I was also traveling to Thailand a lot in this period of My life. So that really informed my perspective on kind of, I guess the. Had the way that the Epstein stuff was clearly touching on this like, global fault line.

[A]

Did you see the email about Thailand? That one was crazy. No. Yeah. So there was a discussion of. I think I want to say maybe the publicist forget exactly who it was, but they were discussing how they could move that. There's a. There's a large movement of children that they could do through Thailand and. And they mention a. A pool of 1 million children to tap into literally what they say.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

That's crazy. Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I was working in Thailand in 2019 and Prince Andrew came to Bangkok to do something called Pitch at Palace. This is something I don't actually talk about a lot because it's like too. It takes too. It's too hard to like, explain. But I was writing my script. I saw that Prince Andrew was in Bangkok. They were having a conference called Pitch at Palace that was for tech entrepreneurs to pitch business ideas to the royal. It was like some totally like, weird fake thing. So I went because it was this like luxury mall in Bangkok and. And because. Because Thai people are very, you know, they're wonderful, but they're very like meek and subservient. You can kind of do whatever you want in Bangkok, which is one of the things that makes it a really like, dark place. But they won't like, stop you if you are going somewhere. So I went to the mall and went to this conference and there was like, nobody there. They had like all of the. There were like people on stage. I have like a shitty video of it. I wish I had like, documented it more, but I remember thinking like, oh, like, so Prince Andrew is coming to Bangkok for this like, totally fake thing in like the aftermath of this what should be like, really damning scandal. But he hadn't yet given that interview where he talked about Virginia Guthrie and stuff and been totally like. So they were still like, the royal family was still like shipping him around and giving him like free reign?

[A]

Well, yeah, that makes that the. The Thai email way more. Way more relevant. That's crazy.

[B]

I mean, yeah, this and the suffering in Thailand is just so immense. And I was working on a Netflix show there and I was so. I was. One night I was like with a bunch of actors and we went to the red light district and I thought like, I was like, I can handle it. Like, you know, I'm nihilistic and cool. Like, yeah, that sounds great. And like the second I like stepped into the zone I like my body, like, shut down. I was like, oh, God, like, these people are slaves. This is horrible.

[A]

Did you notice? Yeah, I've heard a lot of people too talk about. One of my buddies was there not too long ago and he was talking about, like, there's like demonic kind of imagery everywhere, like the gods and whatnot. Did you, did you get that vibe too?

[B]

I mean, that's just like the pagan. Like, that's just Buddhism.

[A]

Right. But what I'm saying is, like, you're talking about this in regard to like the red light district and like, is that. Is that connected religiously speaking, within the red light district there?

[B]

No, I didn't spend very much time there. I. I had to leave. But yeah, just being in like, proximity to that and like sex pat culture was really dark.

[A]

Right, Right. Well, the next question I had would. Which would relate to an odd thing in the. The emails that just came out yesterday, which I was. I'm not really sure how to interpret it. It was really weird. But so you, you guys painted that basement room, it looks like. Right. So you painted it to be the blue stripes, like the temple for Addie's like, dissociative breakdown sequence when she attacks you. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, what gave you the idea to paint the basement? That was pretty crazy.

[B]

My production designer, I think, had the. We wanted it to look, you know, I was like, make it look like a satanic Epstein island temple.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that's like a good. A lot of the stuff is like. Yeah, just about like establishing like consistent visual cues and language for people to be able to. Because there's so much information.

[A]

Yeah. Well, the reason I brought that up was one of the emails yet or two days ago that I was covering on my stream that he talks about how the email where he's talking about wanting twins to study, where he says, I wish I could get more babies. He's like. He says, I specifically want. I'm serious. He says, I specifically want twins. And he says because of. What I want to do is study the effects of stripes, vertical and horizontal and how it affects babies. Isn't that crazy? Yes. So, I mean, even this. The. The architect, which is weird because the, the other emails, I didn't realize, like, he was apparently really into architecture because he's always talking about like, oh, yes, this sort of lime wash tile and these columns, and he's really into that for. For whatever reason, but not just because of a fascination with architecture. Apparently he wanted to study the effects because he's like a mad scientist, apparently. Right. He's literally like a. A Bond villain. Which is.

[B]

Well, yeah, the part he wanted to find a partic feel like they're being watched.

[A]

Right. It's like, what the hell? Literal Bond villain level.

[B]

Like, so I remember he's also like such a midway.

[A]

What was the other part too? Because people were wondering, like, why does he say these really things that like he is like at times he's not even aware of, like obvious basic facts and things. So it's a weird mix of like this obsession with transhumanism and genetics and twins and cloning. And then it's like other times he sounds like a. He's like, is the banana conscious? Like, what? And so it's. Did you see that? Where he's like arguing with. He's arguing with Bannon about whether bananas are conscious.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And just really like. Yeah, I think he like knows how to sound smart enough and obviously like sued like surrounding himself with scientists.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like his feeling of being.

[A]

There's definitely a con. A con man element to it. But in some of the other emails where he's like explaining the architecture of global finance and like bankrupting countries IMF style, like when he's describing those, he's very perceptive. Like he really gets the architecture of finance. But then like in these other ones, philosophically speaking, he seems like totally out to lunch. But anyway, I also think maybe that in some of those emails or texts he might just be completely stoned because several pictures, right, there's like giant bags of drugs. And then one, one, the one where he's dancing with a chick, he's. He seems like he's out of his mind. So I just wonder if he's like maybe just like drunk texting half of the time. But. Okay, so the tarot cards, that was interesting to see, the tarot cards and then specifically the tarot cards with the youths, that was, I think on purpose. Right. Because that comes up at the end when there's the murder. Right?

[B]

Yeah, I know. I wanted a deck, so I found one that checks like the boxes that I wanted. And oftentimes with like esoterica, you'll find that they. They check a lot of boxes and I forget it was called like the Bota, The builders of the Adidum. A diadem. And it's a Western mystery. Los Angeles based Western mystery tradition that was registered as a non profit tax exempt Brutus organization. Kind of. Yeah. It was like a Masonic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Occult tarot system.

[A]

So the first one that comes up is she finds, I think she is it in the medicine cabinet or something. She picks up. It's like a. It's the sun card, which is happiness and good fortune. Right. So that's. You kind of feel like this was kind of a misdirection because isn't. Isn't the first one that she grabs like a sun card?

[B]

Oh, well, I picked the sun because the island had that big sun on dial. And then that card in particular has like the two babies.

[A]

Exactly, right. That's what I was getting. I was like, so you. She picks up the card. This was early on in the film. And it's like the sun card. And that one is. Suggests good stuff positivity. Right. But that's not where it's going. Yeah, I know. That's. That, that's why it was almost like a accidental misdirection. Right. Because it's like, no, this is not going to a good place. But okay, so basically this apartment has been flipped to go back to the story here. The girls have moved in, they're getting settled in, they're trying to figure out, you know, who's going to sleep in what room. And then you show up. Addie is starting to have breakdown and we. We find out that it's not just trauma based mind control and that she's like having nightmares. There's also pretty quick indications that it might be also a spiritual problem. Was this when you were beginning to get into, you know, spirituality, Catholic stuff? Right. And that were you. Is that why you tied in the demonic element to it or was that just completely. Was that completely distinct from your Catholic?

[B]

No, no, I think a lot of it happened. Yeah. In tandem. And yeah, I think a lot of like revelations that I had about world worldly evil did motivate my like reversion.

[A]

And you specifically. I think it's your character that specifically mentions when you start explaining to the. The brunette that the Clintons and the royals are all involved. Princess Di comes up and then this discussion continues and then you sort of educate her. Meanwhile, Addie goes to stay with Greg and Greg is playing. Greg is playing pop up sex games. He's playing like Cunt wars or whatever that stupid game is. I thought that was really.

[B]

It's called FAP CEO.

[A]

That's a real game. That was actually really funny. Well, I thought that was great to show like the, just the total normie like mindset of Greg when you've got this actual like total global sexual conspiracy right in his house and he's over here playing this like ridiculous game. Addie's trying to explain to him what's going on. And he's totally oblivious. Right. So one question I had, I wrote down was you said it wasn't really Mulholland Drive. Did you watch Inland Empire?

[B]

I have, yeah.

[A]

Was that at all? Because I thought there was some sequences, sort of the wandering down the street with this dissociative. Like, was that at all in. In. Not really.

[B]

Maybe with my cinema, with my cinematographer. I feel like we maybe talked about it when we were discussing, like, what references we wanted to incorporate. But I think a lot of that also just happened naturally because of the way that we were filming. And, like, when we filmed outside of his house, we had to shoot that at, like, it, like, January at, like, three in the mornings so that there wouldn't be anyone but anybody around.

[A]

What was that Greg line? I'm so tall I could be in the NBA. I just love how Greg is just. He's a really good comrade. All right. So Epstein. So you say Epstein woke up more people. This is our 911. I thought that was all interesting lines. You go to the magical apothecary guy, by the way, every time I've been to a magic bookstore or some kind of, like. It's literally that kind of a dude. So you. You nailed the archetype.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Addie dissociates. Addie is an MK Ultra sex kitten. She paints the room. Like Epstein. She reverts. Now, this was interesting. She reverts to a childlike altar. I've read quite a bit on mpd. Did dissociation, like, was that where you were going with that?

[B]

Sort of. I mean, the. The thinking was, like, to show the progression of her. So, like, at first she's, like, mildly dissociated, kind of having these outbursts. And then the scene where she's, like, smearing her, like, menstrual blood on the walls. My thinking was kind of like that she's in this, like, psycho sexual obsessive state that's connected to this, like, pedophilic desire.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So her, like, menstruating is, like, repulsive to her as a sign of, like, you know, her pubescence.

[A]

And that's actually also Crowley. And because Crowley talked about not just the underage stuff, but Crowley also talked about the importance of the menstrual fluid in those rituals, which I'm sure you're familiar with that, right?

[B]

I'm not, no.

[A]

Actually, that there's a lot of.

[B]

I'm too scared.

[A]

Well, I mean, that's a big part of it is for Example, Crowley created a split off group called the Gnostic Catholic Church which was supposed to be a gateway for people who were into Catholicism or Christianity or Orthodoxy or whatever. It was his gateway for them to get into cronism. He said that a lot of people couldn't go from, you know, normal Christian religion practice, etc into straight up Oto Thalima stuff. So they needed like a halfway house. And he said he created the Gnostic Catholic Church to be that. And the cake of light for the Gnostic Catholic Church is a Eucharist made with menstrual blood.

[B]

That is disgusting.

[A]

That's absolutely real. I know it's disgusting, but. So you just kind of tapped into that like without even knowing that. That's, that's pretty wild.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that just came to me.

[A]

Yeah, that's wild. But I mean it makes sense though too with then what you hit at there was that Crowley says the reason for that is that the energy of youth. Right. Is very, very powerful. So that's why number one, the, the PD PDF stuff happens is like you're tapping into like in Twin Peaks. Right. The, the guy in the Other Place is like, I need my garment Boia, which is to feed on people's, you know, sin or, or, or, or trauma or pain. Right. So you're feeding on that. But especially when it's. Especially when. Exactly when it's. When it's the youth. So. Yeah.

[B]

Do you talk about tm, like Transcendental Meditation?

[A]

What about it?

[B]

Just earlier when we were talking about Hollywood, I. That's what I associated to as a kind of. I know lynch was a practitioner. I don't think he's. I mean, yeah, I'd like to think that he had the kind of like the fortitude to do it, but I think a lot of people really don't and a lot of people in LA especially are into it and they like when they empty their minds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To practice tm. I don't. I've rarely seen like something good happen.

[A]

Yeah. Basically the idea is that you're gonna get influences stepping in. But a lot of those people don't consider the possibility that something bad might step in and influence you. But yeah, the idea comes out of Maharishi, Mahesh, yogis. It's like Hindu mystical practices where you're sort of trying to empty yourself and let other things step in. And you could see why that would be very attractive to actors or actresses. The Stanislavski method acting type stuff like seems to go hand in hand. But yeah, absolutely. I think you're you're spot on there with the TM element. But so I have to ask this question too. So the original real estate dude that's showing the apartment at that gives them the apartment, ends up being one of the well connected villains. And then he's playing the piano. Is he? Nick Nightingale, A sort of a Nick Nightingale character playing the piano.

[B]

Yeah, but also Epstein was a piano. You know, he had a lot of interest.

[A]

Oh, good point. I've totally forgot about the piano thing. Yeah, that's right.

[B]

But we also just had a, like a little, you know, when you're working on a budget, you kind of just work with what you had. So we had a piano.

[A]

How did you, if you don't mind me asking, like, how did you raise money for that? I'm about to be in a movie too, by the way. So we're talking about like movie budget type stuff. So can I ask you.

[B]

I mean, the budget was small. It was like a hundred thousand dollars. And yeah, I had two producers, Mark Rapaport, who plays Greg, and Adam Mitchell. And they, I think they work separately now, but they like wanted to do kind of like a Blumhouse style, like high roi, horror production vision. And I was connected with them when I was like shopping my script around. And they were great. They made, they made it work. The house was my producer's mother's house that she was like moving out of and like very graciously let us use. So we like cut corners where we could. But yeah, the budget wasn't, wasn't big.

[A]

So we get a big twist. Spoiler alert. If you haven't watched the film, you can go watch it. If you beware. It has mature themes. It's not for children, but yeah, right. Don't let your kids watch it. But so, spoiler alert. We find out that the. I forget the brunette character's name. I keep Noelle Noel. So Addie ends up dissociating. She ends up attacking you in the film because you're on the trail of this. You've been studying it. And then Noel comes in and stabs Addie as she's attacking you. And then we find out that all along Noel was involved and she was the one that was sort of put in place to silence the Addie who was an Epstein victim. And then you are warned. Right. I thought that was a great twist.

[B]

He wasn't an Epstein victim. Exactly.

[A]

Well, what is it?

[B]

She's just. My, my. The idea was that, yeah, she had had like sexual trauma in her past and was sort of Lured there by Noel to take part in this, like, ritualistic sacrifice.

[A]

Oh, Noel is part of it, right? She's.

[B]

Yeah. Noel is, like, kind of, like, orchestrated it. And then Addie was like. Is like the sacrificial.

[A]

Okay, so are we supposed to think that the. The realtor piano guy is adjacent to or part of the Epstein stuff or that he is an Epstein?

[B]

It's, like, less about Noel being connected to Epstein. Exactly. And more about, like, metaphysical.

[A]

So it just triggers this stuff, like, going into this apartment. And then, like, it triggers Addie to have the.

[B]

The idea is the apartment was owned by Epstein. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

But Noel isn't necessarily, like. Noel's not sent there as, like, an Epstein assassin. Right.

[B]

No. Noelle wants to partake in this ritual.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay.

[B]

Preserving purposes.

[A]

And then you. At the end. And I thought this was a great Eyes Wide Shut scene here. Is that you find this letter, you open it up, and it says, this should tell you to stop your inquiries. No more investigation. Hopefully.

[B]

This are completely useless.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

Because second warning.

[A]

Exactly. And this was a very Bill Harford type.

[B]

It's verbatim, the letter.

[A]

Exactly. Right. So because. Because when you come back to show Greg, everything's gone. It's all been cleaned up. And that's exactly parallel with, like, you know, when Tom Cruise is trying to explain, you know, hey, look, you gotta. And then there's no evidence, like, everything's been completely cleaned up. Right. Which shows that he's involved in something way bigger than him. Okay. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah. So basically, you're Tom Coombe in that. In that show, in that movie.

[B]

But. Yeah. And that was. That's ultimately like, the thesis, I'd say, of scary is that it takes place in the Eyes Wide Shut extended universe.

[A]

Gotcha. Right. And now, basically, what you put in there is pretty much vindicated. Right. Like, the. The film was more accurate than you even knew, given what's come out the last few days.

[B]

Accurate even then.

[A]

But, yeah, I'm saying what's come out in the last two days has, like, made it even more. You. Almost prophetic in a way.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, and I am. I guess I knew that. Yeah. That it would be this, like, enduring cultural meme.

[A]

Now that that happened and all that. And then you were having. Was it. Did you have. Did you just do the interview with Fuentes on Red Scare? Is that. Because I haven't heard it yet. Okay, so you guys had him on. And then there's this guy who is in the media. He's obsessed with trying to get you canceled? Was this. Prior to that? Like, did he have a longtime vendetta? Why was this guy so interested in canceling it?

[B]

Yeah, he's been emailing. He'd been emailing my reps for years.

[A]

You don't know why.

[B]

Pretends to be a producer, but he doesn't really do anything.

[A]

Why, why do you think he's single? Like, what was the vendetta with you? Why did he want to get you cancelled?

[B]

I think he has some, like. I don't think he's well, and I think he has this like anti fascist.

[A]

Oh, one of those. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, he thinks, yeah, that I'm like a Nazis.

[A]

Right. Because there's so many Russian Nazis. Right, yeah.

[B]

From Belarus.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

Yeah, he, he's, yeah, he's like doing a virtuous thing by purging these like problematic people from the film industry.

[A]

Well, you seem in good spirits and good humor. I mean, maybe you've already sort of processed it. Like, are you okay? Like, is it. This seems like pretty terrible news.

[B]

Honestly, it was traumatic, but I, it's not like I had already been like basically blacklisted, you know, really?

[A]

For what, what, what, what would have got you canceled.

[B]

Is not just being, you know, it's. I understand why people wouldn't want to work with me because it's like loaded, you know, Even if, even if you aren't trying to make, make like a political statement, people will assume you will. Or like, what are you trying to say? You know, it's, it's just too charged. So it was already like struggle, like a struggle to work as an actress. Which, like, I understand.

[A]

Is that you mean, is that because of specifically Red Scare podcasts or like. But I mean, I'm just asking.

[B]

Okay, yeah. Alex Jones.

[A]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[B]

Just like when I interviewed Alex Jones, it was right after I had been on succession and I think my film was out already and I had a publicist at the time because I was doing a lot of like promotional work and she really was like, maybe don't go interview Alex Jones. And I was like, I think, I think I just have to, you know. But that one, yeah, that I think that was probably for a lot of people, like, made me non grata.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, once you have like a reputation, it just builds, builds in that direction.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, Dasha, actually I'm a Democrat. I was just kidding this whole time.

[A]

Right? Yeah. Haha. I was trolling. So. So what now I know that you obviously you're going to continue probably the podcast. What. What's the next project? Are you going to do more of your own films?

[B]

I'd like to. I'd really like to make another film. I think it'll probably take me a while. I got married last year, so I'm gonna focus on probably starting a family.

[A]

Congrats.

[B]

Thanks. And yeah, I'm not, you know, it's. It'll sound like I'm coping, but yeah, I'm not, like, eager to work in the industry because I don't feel like it's been particularly, like, hospitable.

[A]

Right. So what. What's the main. Is it. Are you still doing Red Scare? Like, what's your main focus right now?

[B]

Yeah, I'm doing the pod and I like, I'll definitely make another film. It's just. Is such a. Like making sk. I feel like making Scary took years off my life, honestly. Yeah, it's so scary stressful.

[A]

Well, I thought you did really good. And again, your other. Your other performances are topnotch. Softness of bodies, really good stuff. Looking forward to watching the Code as well. And thank you for coming on. Really great conversation.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Impressed with your work. Yeah. Thank you, everybody. Follow Dasha. I'll have all of her links in the show description and I'll have some links to some of the films and whatnot and anything you want to promote coming up in the near future. Any specific interviews or things on Red Scare?

[B]

Honestly? Yeah, I think people, it's a good time to watch Scary if you haven't seen it. If you have, maybe watch it again. It's on Shudder and Amazon Prime. Yeah, I guess that's it.

[A]

All right, well, thank you, Dasha. I appreciate it.

[B]

Thank you.