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Jay'sAnalysis
Gone Girl & Eden: Narcissism, Civilization & Feminism - Jay Dyer & Jimbob Decode Film
01:45:22
Jimbob joins me to analyze a couple relevant films: Eden (2025) and Gone Girl (2014), both of which have interesting parallels and commentaries on society, gender, psychology ops, modernity and more. Enjoy! Jimbob is here...
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- [00:00]
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Jay Dyer
I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels.
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Jim Bob
But my style keeps evolving.
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Jay Dyer
See ahs.com contracts for coverage details including limit amounts, fees, limitations and exclus. Sam. All right, what's up all you hooting. The Blowfish roadies out there. We have with us today Hootie of Hoodie and the Blowfish. That's the black guy, but in the band, if you don't know. Hoodie, how you doing today?
- [02:20]
Jim Bob
I'm doing good.
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Jay Dyer
Oh, that's him, right?
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Jim Bob
I always mix him up with Counting Crows. But they're. They're not the same, right? No, no, no, they're not the same.
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Jay Dyer
No, no, no, they're. Of course they're not the same. How dare you.
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Jim Bob
How.
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Jay Dyer
Yeah, I was. I always laugh at some of the lines in Darius's songs. Like when he's like, what does he say? He. He says the dolphin. You always laugh at me, cuz the dolphins make me cry.
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Jim Bob
Why?
- [02:54]
Jay Dyer
Dolphins make a black dude cry. That's something. Never heard of that, right? All right, so guys, welcome. We have of course, our good buddy Jim Bob. And he had a great idea which was to analyze a couple movies. And the first one of course was Eden, which I thought was a pretty good film. We'll get into that in a moment. And then Jim Bob also had the idea to analyze another film. And so we were tossing around a couple feminist laced films and I was like, well, this, you know, Sydney Sweeney handmade movie with Amanda Seyfried was super feminist. And then we've got a. Another option with Gone Girl, which I've been meaning to analyze for a long time. So Jim Bob said that he always favored, you know, Gone Girl because he's a big, you know, Ben Affleck fan. And, and so I wanted to. I wanted to kowtow to Jim Bob to get props with him. So we went with full Baflec. I call him Baffle because he's kind of baffled. In a lot of the scenes in this movie, he's just sort of like.
- [03:59]
Jim Bob
Yeah, it's a very. The, just right off the bat, the style of the movie is. Is kind of bizarre. The, the dialogue, how the dialogue is actually spoken. It's always like over the top. Like, like you would hear it in your head while you're reading. It's like a sort of a. Almost like a dream state, the whole movie. My experience.
- [04:19]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you noticed that. I had that in my notes too. And there's a lot going on in that film, and that's because it's a, it's a David Fincher film, which we'll get into that second. I think Gone Girl is the more prominent, well known kind of blockbuster film from about 10 years ago. But we'll start with Eden because, you know, this is kind of a unique genre. I want to remind everybody, if you want to support the stream, you can do so through Super Chat. Super Chats are done through the Stream Labs link, pinned in the chat or in the show description. You can also send a Super chat through YouTube if you'd like to. But what piqued your interest about this movie? How did you decide to watch Eden? Was it one of those things like where you and your wife, as it was with me and Jamie, were sort of scrolling through Amazon and we're like, yeah, let's check this one out.
- [05:02]
Jim Bob
Yeah, I actually, I want Megan to see it. She didn't see it. It was the same thing, though, just without her. I was just like, all right, there's got to be something to watch. I read the description and I was like, this is. This is definitely my jam. And, and it was, it was actually a pretty good movie. I like the way it was structured. The fact that it's on an island. They say it's from a true story. I don't know what to believe anymore when people say, it's a true story, Jay. I don't know how much they're actually saying it's a true story or how much they're like, yeah, yeah, people showed up on an island once and they had to do stuff, and. And then we made up the rest of it. I don't know. But, yeah, the way it was presented was really good. It was like, you know, it forced you to confront different themes, and I wanted to get your take. You said you did some notes on this already. Some of the themes that I saw in the movie, one off the bat, was sort of like the more traditionally leaning people who want some sort of order. And then, like, the other people were more like, I don't know, hedonistic and anarchist. Like, they're like, don't be by me. I don't want to be connected to you. We're. We're over here, you're over there. And, you know, though I agree with, like, natural boundaries being good, there was a distinct cultural difference between the two couples there at first that I. I thought was interesting. I thought it, like, kind of was relevant even today.
- [06:32]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, definitely. I mean, this is a Ron Howard movie. Ron Howard, of course, is, you know, Opie from Mayberry, and he hasn't really done a whole lot of memorable films of late that I'm aware of, but this one was pretty good. It fits in this genre of what I call island fiction, which I've covered recently. We did an analysis of Lord of the Flies. We did an analysis of the TV show Lost, because those all kind of go together. And you've also got kind of classics like Treasure island from Robert Louis Stevenson, and you've got Robinson Crusoe books that I've enjoyed over the years. And this is in that vein. And like you said, it's somewhat historical in that I did watch a couple documentaries on the. The supposed actual people, and most of it is kind of. At least the first half of the movie is pretty much accurate. And there were some deaths, but I think they obviously Hollywooded it up. And I could tell you right now that the. The baroness does not look like Anna de Armas.
- [07:36]
Jim Bob
I bet.
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Jay Dyer
I bet she looks more like the Baron from Dune. Baron, Hark, Conan. But, yeah, the babes of the 1800s and the early 1900s, they're pretty much like your uncle these days.
- [07:49]
Jim Bob
Yeah, totally.
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Jay Dyer
All right, so. So basically what happens is you have this desire of this sort of oddball professor doctor and his Name is actually Friedrich, which is odd because he seems to be very Nietzschean. He almost acts kind of like Friedrich Nietzsche. And so he has this Nietzschean attitude. He gets this idea to go to the Galapagos Islands to set up his own intentional community there with just him and his sort of rando girlfriend. And I can also assure you that the actual girlfriend. Ish person does not look like the blonde chick in the movie. So again, everybody's pretty much hideous. Although Jude Law does kind of look like the dude, especially when he removes his teeth, because he has this idea that if he gets rid of his teeth, he will survive the dental maladies that may occur on a desert island. But as Jim Bob noted, like, it's going to become a kind of a allegory for civilization itself as well as the Garden of Eden, hence the term Eden. So initial impressions? I was kind of, it was a little slow at first. I was like, what, what is this about? What's going on here? This, this couple goes to this island to create what, just two people living on an island in a like a hermetic existence. And Eden of course will be invaded, as we know. There's never going to be these, you know, utopian style communities that ever work. And immediately you start getting people arriving. We'll get into those characters in a minute. But what was your initial impressions as you're watching the film, as you got this crazy. A rabid atheist too, by the way. He's a rabid Darwinian materialist atheist who arrives with his girlfriend to live on an island.
- [09:31]
Jim Bob
Yeah, what was present immediately was the philosophy. They kind of, they kind of ran with that as the through line anyway. But yeah, it was very. Create your own truth. Nothing's true, nothing's good. It's all made up, this kind of thing that's, you know, ever present today in our culture with progressives and atheists. And I thought that was a really good depiction. The, the things he was writing was something you notice that will exist and pop up in every civilization where someone says, well, let's just create our own reality. And, and the truth is you can't create your own reality. There is a reality and you're going to be hit with it at some point. And if you're on an island, I would argue you're hit with reality faster than if you're in a decadent, luxurious society as we are in today. So I almost like it. I got to be honest, I'm not an accelerationist, but I do imagine in my head certain scenarios that would Sort of do away with all of these. These fictions, like the Trunes thing. Like these are all decadent features. Like we're. We're allowed to fantasize about all these different philosophies of how the world could be, especially knowing if we're gonna eat right. It's like we're granted some extra time. But you put it in that critical scarcity and suddenly reality looks a little bit different. It creeps up a little bit faster. And so they. They included that a little bit. It was a little fanciful still, I think. A little. They were granted themselves little still some decadence on that in this movie.
- [11:07]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. Initially the idea is that they're going to be free from attachments to worldly goods. There won't be private property, there won't be theft. Any of these supposed, along with the civilization and society will be gotten rid of by returning to this Enlightenment fantasy of the pure state of nature, the original supposed primal state before the social contract that all the Enlightenment philosophers kind of fantasize and theorized about. There's also a Rousseau element here with the idea that what emasculates man, according to Rousseau, is civilization. And so to be a wild man is kind of this, you know, this fantasy that a lot of people post Enlightenment and I guess perhaps in the Victorian era had, was. Was to get away and just create your own society. But this sort of anarcho, you know, Darwinian approach is always wrought with very serious problems, I think, because people don't realize that men are fallen. So the problems that humans have, they're not primarily social, external, they're actually internal problems with which are the vices. And so right away, as they've sort of gotten things up and going and they're. They're sort of managing to make it, you get this woman arriving in this, you know, fancy steamboat, and she claims to be the baroness. And this is played by Anna de Armas. And she claims that the island will now be her property. And she has these wild designs to build a luxury hotel. And she's going to bring, you know, the elite to come and party there. And she's got lovers with her and she's, you know, sleeping with all these different dudes. And so she's a very amorous, lusty sort of. She's a. She represents the temptation of lust and greed which has now entered this supposed, you know, atheist Edenic paradise. And immediately we have problems erupting with temptation. There's immediate problems with theft. So the. The first humans that arrive immediately cause problems and one other thing I would notice to note too, is that it's. The fact that she claims to be an aristocrat is interesting because we find out later, spoiler alert, that is a deception. She's a con woman. She's a con artist. And so this might actually be kind of hinting that aristocracy or monarchy has always been a kind of a con and it invades the pure state of nature. I'm not saying it's a totally atheist film. I think it actually has an almost quasi Christian message, at least in my interpretation of it, which we'll get to later. But what did you think when the. The vice of, you know, the. The succubus woman arrives at the island?
- [13:44]
Jim Bob
Yeah, I did notice that she was sort of represented or at least trying to sell the other woman, you know, liberty, liberate yourself, you know, do things you want to do. And there's a kind of funny tension there. It's. I don't know if it's a paradox or a contradiction where, you know, you pose as a higher elite person which presupposes hierarchy, that there's an order to things. I am the top, you are lower. Listen to me. At the same time, you're pressing other people to be totally liberated, that these rules don't really apply at the same time. And we still see that today. The people who sell us absolute liberty, absolute decay, degeneracy, they're still kind of going, yeah, but we want an ordered system also, but also be disordered. So it's this constant tension with that. And so that's the beginning of like, sort of introducing some of the more disordered things. And you notice that with the other couple, they're kind of holding on to some structure and. And I don't even know if they made that too explicit of what. What that actually represented. I wanted to get your take on that. Like the couple that was a little bit more traditional and reserved in their behavior.
- [14:59]
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- [15:09]
Jay Dyer
See ahs.com contracts for coverage details, limitations and exclusions.
- [15:14]
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Jay Dyer
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- [15:28]
Jim Bob
Did. Was that something that, like, they just kind of wanted to give a soft approach to, like, a Christian, pseudo Christian view. But it wasn't, it wasn't totally on point. There were still some things missing there.
- [15:42]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, well that was, you know, the next set of characters that arrives is this, this guy with his wife. And the wife is played by Sydney Sweeney. And they have a young son who has a breathing problem. And so they've been researching and they come to the conclusion that if they go to this island, he'll be able to breathe better if they, if they live out there. So, so they're actually doing it for sort of self sacrificial reasons for the next generation. And Sydney Sweeney gets pregnant and as slow boy whiteboard noted, it's funny because in the thumbnail and in the film she looks like this like 1800s Pentecostal Sydney Sweeney, which we don't usually get. Prairie Muffin Pentecostal Sydney Sweeney. But no, this is.
- [16:23]
Jim Bob
Especially lately.
- [16:24]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, but she actually kind of looks like she has that kind of face of like an 1800s pentecostal chick. So, but so the reason that those characters arrive is that I think you're right, they represent more of a traditional family, a quasi sort of pseudo Christian family. But what's interesting is that a theme that keeps popping up in the film peppered throughout is survival of the fittest. And so you've got these three sort of competing sets of characters that, you know, the atheist, the sort of Christian family, and then the, you know, amorous con artist woman they are so called aristocrat. They're all sort of competing to survive. And they've realized that with limited resources they're going to have to engage in deception, subterfuge and perhaps even self defense to be able to survive. Because now civilization has returned to the island. And so what's, what's ironic is that she does everything, at least Sydney Sweeney does for her child and for her husband and for the son. And what ends up happening is that she ends up being the one that survives because the real survival of the fittest actually was not the characters that were totally self centered and only out for themselves. I mean eventually, you know, the Jude Law Friedrich, Dr. Friedrich character even turns on the girlfriend and just sort of disses her because he's only really concerned with himself. He has this great revelation where he's going to write the philosophy of the next, you know, generation. And he's sitting on his typewriter on the beach and he's like, I figured it out. We're just animals. Right? As if that's some kind of revelation. But it's like, dude, 20, 20,000 different hedonist philosophers have said we're just animals. So it's like there's not any kind of real revelation there. But what's ironic is that that's what leads to his own demise. He ends up not surviving because the survival of fittest actually means that the next generation, you're providing for your offspring's future, for the species. And the other characters don't do that. And then De Armas is not at all concerned with having offspring. Her, she's just lusty and deceptive and murderous. And same with Jude Law. So what ends up happening is that the Christian ish characters who want to have an actual family are the ones that survive.
- [18:38]
Jim Bob
Yeah, and I, I was torn with this scene too, with what you just said. Sweeney's character fought off the wild dogs or wolves. And I, I thought there was a little bit of like over the top feminism in there. But at the same time, there was something also true at the same time, which is there's a reason. There was a reason. It was like you just said, it's the child. Like you have some reason that's bigger than you that gives you that much more oomph or power. Now, of course they, they kind of inverted at the same time, but, but whereas the rest of the characters, if it's just pure, what would be the euphemism today with just pure materialism, Pursue your own wants and desires as an individual. Today, not only you don't survive, but you, you no longer have the societies to survive because there's not a collective element to it. And it's. And the thing is, I, I don't know if this was the case, but maybe the either or is is a constant false dialectic that it's both. And, and I think that either or was sold kind of pretty hard. And honestly, to be fair, I don't think there's a way to resolve it the both and without a like a Christian paradigm. Maybe they could point to it and be like, look, it's both. You do both and just make the claim. But the message to me wasn't exactly clear that it is a both and it's not. It's not just one or the other. But they kind of had to sell it that way. Maybe that's just movies though, you know?
- [20:10]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, no, I think you're on to something there because, you know, the full. The characters clearly all have a philosophy, right? You know, Jude Law has an atheistic, anarcho, Nietzschean, Darwinian philosophy. They're at the Galapagos Islands. Right. That's where you know, Darwin was doing his, his beagle beak studies or whatever. So it's like evolution. Yeah, right. There's these clear references to, you know, the prevalent ideology and zeitgeist of the late 1800s and early 1900s. But you cannot get away from social order, from private property, from self defense, from the justified use of instances of violence for self defense, et cetera. And that's just because it's not the social order that's the problem in men. Ultimately. It's not. The structure is external demand. And that's why you have both the wealthy or supposedly wealthy aristocrat woman representing the upper class. You've got Jude Law representing the intelligentsia class and then you've got this sort of middle class family with, with Sydney Sweeney. So all the classes also sort of come back to the island class structure reemerges and you know, nothing really works except for the, the virtue of sacrificing for the others. I think that was the main message of the film was that you're never going to get away from this stuff. The other interesting thing that that was, I think intentional was that when the Hollywood.
- [21:45]
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- [22:04]
Jay Dyer
For 20% off our plans. Visit ahs.com Listen, see ahs.com contracts for coverage details including limit amounts, fees, limitations and exclusions. People arrive, right? This big Hollywood producer arrives and he's going to film, you know, the people on the island and make this sort of documentary or whatever. And Anna Darmis is baroness character, you know, tries to buddy up to him and try to get with him and go back to Hollywood and be famous. And he's the one who, because he deals with actors and conversations people all the time, he's the one that recognizes her game. And he calls her out, he's like, oh yeah, you're a con woman. I can tell right away that you're not actually a baroness. And so, so she also kind of represents Hollywood, right? And the celebrity status and all of that fades away because as we said, as you said, really the only thing that matters ultimately is the, the survival of the next generation. So in that sense I think it was, it was a positive message. Anything else you wanted to say on this one?
- [23:02]
Jim Bob
Yeah, I was just like to further on the baroness thing. I know today we look at Elite and we go, oh they're part of all these weird sex cults and stuff, which is true, but I mean, at that point it seemed like the red flag was the promiscuity with that. You would know better than me. Is that, would that be normal then?
- [23:26]
Jay Dyer
Insofar as, like, I'm an expert in promiscuity, so I would know better.
- [23:29]
Jim Bob
Yeah, that sounded wrong. That sounded wrong. Now that's going to be a theme. That's going to be like a couple weeks. Sorry.
- [23:37]
Jay Dyer
Well, you.
- [23:37]
Jim Bob
Yeah, of course I did do my.
- [23:40]
Jay Dyer
PhD and touching butts and so.
- [23:43]
Jim Bob
Yes, you know, you know your 20s, Jay.
- [23:46]
Jay Dyer
I know. Touching butts, yes.
- [23:49]
Jim Bob
Yeah, no, but like, isn't that, wouldn't that be a re. Like a lot of times these people are trained in etiquette, you know, sort of like they're presentable, they have good posture, they don't talk about certain things. You know, this seems to be, at least to me, what, what the culture of a higher class person would be at the time. They wouldn't be just so open with their promiscuity and, you know, and stuff like. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're, maybe they do just party, but they just don't show it to the lower class peasants.
- [24:22]
Jay Dyer
You know, I think there, there was actually at this time an explosion of a push for free love stuff. In fact, Bertrand Russell, H.G. wells, a lot of those Fabian socialist characters were actually involved in promoting, you know, polyamorous stuff very early. It didn't catch on, but it was very prominent amongst the Fabian socialists in the UK. But they would have to wait until the 1960s when their very same ideology would actually become mainstream. So, you know, again, this is a microcosm island and a lot of island fiction is a microcosm for society in the world as a whole. So that's what's going on here. And you know, just like Lord of the Flies, there's a lot of parallels and if you're interested, you can go watch My Lord of the Flies. But something I think that you would be very good to comment on was, is that, you know, when they get to the island and they are in this supposed pure state of nature, do we find values and morals and all of these things under the microscope, or do we find predator prey relationships? Which probably, I think would bring a lot of things to mind in regard to your many atheist debates that you've had now that, you know, atheism pretends as if we can just sort of come up with morals and virtue and ethics under a microscope and yet even with the fiction that we see that deals with this kind of stuff, we learn the lesson, or we're supposed to learn the lesson of hubris to avoid hubris, that no, you can't get ethics and morals in a social order out of a microscope. Or Jude Law gumming his way across.
- [25:58]
Jim Bob
The island, coming this way, they should have made him, you know, right off the bat, just toothless. Yeah, that's an important theme. You mentioned before that, you know, the, the, the problem that I find even in the debates online, I just always remind myself it's not an intellectual issue, it's a spiritual issue. And the fact that the distinction that men are fallen still applies to the status of reality itself, that we're in the, the post fall state. So when people go into the wilderness, they have this assumption that it's pure and beautiful and flowers and bees, and at the same time they, they realize quite quickly that that's actually not, not the case. Yes, there's beauty. Yeah, there is, but death came in. And so we see all of the consequence of this. And, and for them to look at nature, you can't really look at nature and say, let's mimic nature. Oh, it's so unified. It's like. Yeah, have you seen a lion rip the face off a baby zebra? Like, what are, where's this harmony you're talking about right now? If you're going to claim it's harmonious, you have to claim that's also part of harmony, that it's all just one big sort of monistic glob of beauty. It's an interpretive dance and it just goes into some weird modes where there's blood and horror, but that's just a part of it. Well, from a Christian paradigm, you look at these movies and you look at these problems and we can understand categorically right off the bat what's going on. And, and a lot of these movies that are made, they'll get some things right, but they never quite make it to the full paradigm level, do they? They just kind of keep it like a little bit snug in the frame. And maybe that's because maybe it's not, maybe it's not exciting to watch that movie. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's like not excited, you know, Like, I, here's my analogy. It's more, it's easier to digest a bunch of debates. Who for? Like a classical foundationalist Christians. Right. There's more to cover facts and stuff. But when you do like, presuppositionalism, and tag, you're going full. Right. And it's not as, you know, to us, it's better, But. But to normies, it's like, well, this is like a, you know, stick in the wheel. Like, can we get to the good stuff? I think movies kind of play along the same rules that. That you have to kind of. You reduce it even more to something that's not exactly true. But. But it's exciting. But I don't know. That's always my critique of most movies, though. I'm like, oh, you're all. You guys are. It's almost there. It's almost there. Yeah.
- [28:34]
Jay Dyer
I mean, the only. I can only think of a couple fiction stories or movies that even get to the level of paradigms. I mean, the closest thing that was recent. Did you see the movie Heretic with Hugh Grant with Mormon girls? Yeah. I mean, that kind of got on to the notion of apologetics and worldviews and paradigms to a degree. And then, you know, I think Dostoevsky's novels do that, but there's just not a lot of fiction that. That really goes to that level. So. And I think to make it a story, you know, has. It has to. It's very difficult to integrate philosophy into a story fiction. And there's just not a lot of that. You know, maybe Philip K. Dick, maybe, which is Gnostic. Maybe Frank Herbert's Dune novels, they get very philosophical. But. But, yeah, but this. This one did okay. And I said. Like, I said, my last thought on. On Eden would be that you do have, of course, the biblical symbology as well, with, you know, this is supposed to be like Eden. It's an atheist Eden, which is interesting. It's a naturalistic Eden. And then you get these humans that come in and sort of become like the serpent. They become the temptation, the tempter with lust, with free love, with theft, with murder. All of the vices eventually sort of make their way in through, principally through Anna, the arms thing. She's. She's kind of the antagonist character. But also Jude Law ends up kind of being a devil figure as well. So in this case, the one who founds the Eden is actually also kind of a devil character because he ends up betraying his own girlfriend and everyone else. And then, of course, the rumor is that. And this is a rumor in terms of the actual story that the. His chicken nuggets were poisoned. So perhaps, you know, his girlfriend poisoned the chicken nuggets to get rid of him because at the end of the day, he was so nasty and so just, you know, viperous that even his girlfriend was sick of him. So. So like in Ouroboros they end up eating themselves, so to speak, these atheist nihilists. Because there's no reason not to dispense with even those that are your sort of allies. And then again. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
- [30:53]
Jim Bob
I was going to ask you, do you think there was a, at least a prominent moment where it pointed to the, the general good of human humanity that we have? Because a lot of, a lot of these movies, they end up sort of just going human bad, human bad. It's like over and over again, human bad, human bad. Nature good. Nature would be good if there's no humans kind of thing. And I don't know that I can point to a specific moment. Maybe I just don't remember. But I'm always looking for that now. Like, can we, you know, like black mirror. It's always black mirror. It's never white white mirror, white pill mirror. Now we are dealing with technology and stuff, but like it's the same usually for these movies where it's like, it's always a downward hit on humanity, you know, and critiquing humanity is perfectly fine, but it, it usually misses like an upward motion where you're pull. You're trying to pull humanity up a little bit. I don't see it much, but I think it's around the corner. That's my hope anyway.
- [31:50]
Jay Dyer
I think Sydney Sweeney represents the only sort of heroic, virtuous character in the film. She know, she's continually sort of bringing in the notion of justice and virtue and this isn't right. We don't need to do this. We should do this. And that's because she's the only one that cares for other people. I mean, her husband does too, but he's kind of like out of the. He's kind of out of it. He's like. He always wanders off to hunt and he's, he's kind of not really. I mean, he does build their house out of basically, you know, like Gilligan's island style, like out of like coconuts. But like he ends up, you know, not really being a main character other than that he ends up, you know, shooting somebody else in self defense and whatnot. But you know, at the end of the day, there is that feminist element too that you mentioned. Because really it's Sydney Sweeney that's kind of the mastermind that is saving, you know, her husband and the kids. Because she ends up figuring out the only way to do this is to Basically force Jude Law's girlfriend to get rid of Jude Law, because Jude Law is going to basically pin the murders on her husband. So she plays this kind of amazing Amy mind game.
- [33:02]
Jim Bob
Exactly, exactly.
- [33:04]
Jay Dyer
Save the family. So it's almost like. Yeah. If you want to see. Talk about survival of the fittest. Well, you know, a mother protecting her cubs is probably the best version of that, but she's actually manages to do it in a virtuous way. So I think she's really the only consistently virtuous character except for maybe kind of her husband.
- [33:22]
Jim Bob
Right. They highlight the. The woman, though. Just. I mean, even in the. The next film we'll. We're moving toward. It's the same kind of theme where it's like, in the end, the woman is. Is the real smart one and the hero. And the man has to realize that. And once you do, then, you know, just sit back and, you know, for the ride, basically. And it's like this theme has been in play before. It's. How old the book is. But this movie is 2016. Right.
- [33:59]
Jay Dyer
So 2014. Yeah. So, yeah. Last comment on On Eden there. And then we'll move on to Gone Girl. I do want to mention a little bit about David Fincher's other films because that's very relevant to this topic. And also, as Jim Bob just said, was sort of the. The. The gnostic female savior archetype. That's an entire chapter in esoteric Hollywood 3. In fact, I went through and kind of went back with a bunch of films, superhero stuff, to try to point out that we've seen the last few decades this huge emphasis in films put on the dark goddess, Gnostic savior, so that this woman comes forth and she's this machine of nature and she's the one that's the real savior and she becomes the goddess. You know, whether it's Scarlett Johansson, pretty much in every movie that she's in, she becomes this deified, apotheosized goddess figure who saves humanity, saves whoever. You know, Dark Phoenix is that way. There's Wonder Woman. Like, all of these superhero films have begun to have this theme where there's no action heroes, there's only slay queens. And that's on purpose. It's literally on purpose because it's part of the narrative of, like, DEI and, you know, writing that into the scripts. Let me read a couple super chats before we move to Gone Girl, because Gone Girl is going to be an amazing dissection precisely of that same sort of theme of, you know, narcissism. Feminism, psychopathy, you know, commentary on the media. There's so much stuff going on in Gone Girl. This is the third or fourth time that I've seen it and every time I see it I kind of notice some different angles and elements. But welcome to the new members that joined. We got P.S. redbeard, silent commissar, Talon, Talented Jane. Jane Fine. Steve, Average Redhead says for $5. It's great to see you guys streaming. These are the biggest names in Cringe Core record recording. Exactly. We are the stars of Cringe Core. Be sure and check out Jim Bob's songs. I've been playing those before the live streams as well. B. Scott, $5. This is a crossover that we need. We need Ortho, Thugs of Wigs, Anthem and well, you got it. Harriet Tubman. Gang gang $5. What it do cuz? Refrain from watching movies with me if you don't want to hear some straight chirping at the screen. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Okay. Vatican History became members. Celestial $5. God bless you Jay. And to the chat. Thank you, Cody Coco. $10. Jay, as a member of the black community, how does that shape your perspective on these white centric films? Well, that's what I'm here to do is to basically rewrite all of these films and represent them with myself as the bipoc protagonist. So you just predicted the future because that's what's coming. Slava became a member. Hick 5:50. Thank you so much. Jay, how would you respond to atheist objections to God and saying that God's morals are, quote, subjective and yet being opposed to absolute divine simplicity? It seems like if God's own properties or energies are also himself, that would explain it easier. Thank you in advance. Well, there's a couple different problems going on in this question. First of all, God's morals or the, the ethics that we know, the good, the good does proceed from God. So they are energies that proceed from the essence. They're not parts of God. God doesn't. God's not split up into parts. Just like if I do an action, that action is really me fully involved, fully present in the action. It's not other than myself in some partition sense. But there is a distinction between me and my acts. But I'm fully present in all of my actions. So on the one hand, the question of it being subjective is really only relative to the ultimate subject. If God exists and God is the ultimate subject, then he is the determiner of ethics. And so ethics are in that sense subjective. When we critique subjectivist ethics. We're just simply saying that humans aren't the type of being or they're not fit to be the subjective determiners of ethics because they're finite, limited creatures. The problem is not that it's subjective, it's that it's subjectivist with limited, finite creatures who are in a position to declare any universal ethical standard or to know it without divine revelation. So there's two separate problems that are going on here. And, and, and different from that is the question of absolute divine simplicity, which if God's attributes are all identical to his essence, then you don't actually know any distinction between those attributes. So there's no real distinction between love, foreknowledge, mercy, justice, providence. They're all identical to God. So that causes way more problems than believing in the essence energy distinction. And remember, the essence energy distinction is not abstract philosophical speculation. It's what's revealed in the New Testament. Paul's letters. Paul calls the operations of God the inner Gaia. So it's a divine revelation. Josiah Eliron, $10. Great topic. I hope to see you and Jim Bob together more. Anthony J. $5. Jim, I'm not trying to cut you off. You want to comment?
- [39:25]
Jim Bob
No, no, no, no. Go for it.
- [39:27]
Jay Dyer
Feel free. Anthony J. $5. This is random, but I had an atheist tell me that shadows prove that triangles and Muslims created algebra. Okay, I would just say, you got it, dude. I guess Islam is true. So just, yeah, you should become a Muslim now because shadows prove that Muslims created algebra. Okay, whatever. There's a couple more here. Esoteric Hollywood archive. I'm a big fan of Jim Bob. I like the ortho thugs. I will enjoy making clips from this analysis. Shout outs to Tony. Do you know if Tristan is okay with me clipping his movie streams that he did with you? I would imagine so, but I'll ask him to make sure and I'll announce it on another live stream. Cody, no, we did that. Celestium, $5. God bless you. Yeah, we did that. Average. No, we did that. Backseat Sauceman. Yeah, I think we did that one too, last time. Okay, so let's move on then to the next film, which is Gone Girl. And brief mention here of David Fincher because he's such a prominent, important Hollywood director. He's done so many, you know, big, big films and they're always very dark, very nihilistic. They deal a lot of times with intelligence themes. They deal a lot of times with mind control, dissociation. They deal with spiritual warfare, demonic possession type stuff. And if you're not a sort of a movie buff. You might not recall that. David Fincher, of course, is the director of Seven Fight Club, the Killer, most recently with Michael Fassbender, which we've mentioned on the channel. And that's relevant because Fassbender, his character as an assassin, explicitly references and quotes Crowley. He says, do what thou wilt should be the whole of law. He mentions Crowley. So we have a very clear sort of director with a knowledge of the esoteric. He did Zodiac, Social Network. He did the Game with Michael Douglas, which is about sort of CIA sort of mind controlling and duping this guy. He did the Girl Dragon Tattoo, which deals with human trafficking. He did Alien 3, World War Z. He did Zodiac, which deals with, you know, occult serial killer stuff. Did a bunch of music videos as well with some of the big, you know, music scions. Like he did George Michael, Madonna, Michael Jackson. So this is a person who's, you know, worked with at the top of Hollywood and music. And again, the films are full of these sort of dark, esoteric themes. This film is not so much esoteric. There are some odd connections with, with Amy and her parents, which might suggest the sort of Eastern Seaboard elite. But neither of us having read the novel, I don't think. What was your. Is this the first time you had seen it and what was your initial impression?
- [42:40]
Jim Bob
It was the second time and I saw it literally yesterday again, the whole thing. So, yeah, my impression, my first impression was the style, like the deliberate dreamy style. The music is very distinct. Almost feels like Mulholland drivey, like strange, like kind of stuff. And, and the way they talked is not the way people talk. Now. People would say, duh, it's a movie, nobody talks. No, it's different. It's like the way they, their dialogue was, was so fine tuned, like it was written. But you go, yeah, it's because it's from a book. But no, that's, that's still not how movies. So that's a choice that, that's not just like, oh, we'll make it sound just like. Like you're reading it in a book. There was something about it that almost like detached it from reality itself. The way they met, the way they talked. It almost made you think that we were, we were listening to a lie about how they met from her even. Like. Like we were watching the lies also in the scenes. You know, that first scene when they, they met. It was like the perfect dialogue back and forth.
- [43:49]
Jay Dyer
Well, if you remember, the diary is a lie, right? She's concocted this diary. So that's. That's why it is. Is that way. So you're absolutely spot on.
- [43:58]
Jim Bob
Yeah. So all those scenes, you don't know if you're watching a scene that's from. That's accurate from the diary or inaccurate. So was that. That wasn't explicit, like, but that kind of piece that together was like, none of this feels real. Like, I don't even know what part feels real to me. Halfway through. I don't. I was like, is this. Is this real, though? The only parts that seemed authentically real and didn't have that weird flair was the interactions with the twin. Suddenly things got like, raw and rugged and people talked normally suddenly. So that was the first thing. Style. Style was the first thing that I noticed.
- [44:38]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, I think you. You're absolutely right to. To note the style. There's a lot of parallels, I think, between the style that David Fincher does stuff and the styles of Brian De Palma. Because we both, Jamie and I watched quite a few Fincher and De Palma movies in the last couple years. We did some podcasts with the guys over at Psyop Cinema. They've got. They've done deep dives on, I think, both Fincher and Brian De Palma. But De Palma also uses this constant sort of almost dissociative dream state appearance and music and just sort of surrealism that just kind of appears. Body Double was very much that way. Femme Fatale was that way with Antonio Banderas dress. To Kill with Michael Caine is that way. These are. These are pretty well known De Palma films that. That utilize this Hitchcockian sort of style. Raising Cane was another one. And that's explicitly about MK Ultran dissociation. The John Lithgow character has multiple personalities and his dad worked for the CIA and sort of abused him and, you know, sort of put that into him. And I think you get the same thing going on with. With Fincher's movies. The. The Game has some very dissociative dreamlike states with Michael Douglas. Fight Club obviously, is about dissociation. Dreamlike states. Many of the sequences in the Killer with Michael Fassbender are very similar to where you just sort of like he's on this vengeance mission as a hitman and, you know, it's almost like he's dissociating at times. And it's this dreamlike sequence. I thought Hitman was the killer was really good. But anyway, so that kind of sets the stage for what's going on with. Yeah, as Jim Bob said, this sort of original. The beginning of the film. It's her telling this story in her diary of how she met Bafleck and how they sort of hit it off. They had their meat cute. They had this, you know, fairy tale, like, meeting of a relationship. And you, you know, as you are are watching, you sort of start wondering, is it. Is this real? This kind of just doesn't seem like the way people. Couples actually meet, you know, and then they fall in love and they get married and. And it's all very, you know, fantastical. But that's on purpose.
- [47:02]
Jim Bob
Yeah. I actually meant to say the music reminded me of Twin Peaks, not Mulholland Drive. That weird.
- [47:07]
Jay Dyer
Like, it is very eerie. It's. It's.
- [47:09]
Jim Bob
Yes.
- [47:09]
Jay Dyer
Ethereal and eerie. Dreamy.
- [47:12]
Jim Bob
Yeah. Yes. Yeah, like. Yeah, exactly. The meeting, like the, the sugar storm. It's like this is stuff that happens only in the romance books like that. Doesn't you. You don't go, oh, let's cut in here. I know a place where they load sugar and there's a sugar storm, you know, just so it can land on your lips. And. And all this. It's like that dream state is interesting. I wonder the purpose of that. Obviously in a. In a. In a thriller, you want to be left wondering constantly. But you're saying that the theme of sort of splitting reality and dream state is something that's consistent in his work. That there's something. There's a. That's a third character in a sense, in.
- [47:50]
Jay Dyer
Well, that. That is surrealism. Right. So surrealism is very prominent in film, particularly in these kinds of directors, especially David Lynch. David lynch was explicitly, you know, a fan of Cocteau and these other sort of avant garde filmmakers that use a lot of surrealism. There's a documentary on surrealism and lynch, which is pretty good. But yeah, there's definitely the same thing going on here with, you know, Brian De Palma basically just says, yeah, I'm just trying to recreate Hitchcock. Hitchcock would use the dream states and surrealism all the time. Like films like Notorious and Spellbound, etc come to mind. But yeah, so Amy. Amy is. Is the Roseman pike sort of protagonist character. And initially you kind of get the impression that she's. She's a good person, she's a. A good wife. She's the perfect wife. And this diary is kind of laying out this story that doesn't really make sense. And it's because she's with this guy who isn't really her match her equal. Right. Ben Affleck is this, you know, cornbread Mideast, Middle East, Middle America, Missouri guy who somehow, you know, wandered into this party and ended up meeting her. And they hit it off and she decided that she would make him her project, right? So she's an Eastern seaboard Harvard elite graduate, her family's wealthy, she's got a trust fund. She's going to take on Ben Affleck as a project and kind of bring his potential to fruition and make him into this sort of super figure man that she sees herself as. And we learned pretty quickly that the reason she's that way is because her. Her parents are very domineering sort of perfectionists. But it's the mom that has and wears the pants. In fact, the dad, throughout the film continually defers to the mom. The first thing he says is, we got to do this for your mom. She's got to have the whole, you know, me event perfect. And they have instilled this into Amy because from her very youngest days, she was groomed to sort of be this perfect kid. They were tiger parents, right? And they've taken her childhood and turned it into a series of young kids novels, kids books called Amazing Amy, which was this hit, you know, series of books that girls read when they were little. But everything that Amy was. Was lacking in the real life was put into this fictional Amazing Amy character. And her parents drilled this into her. We get the idea that they were almost kind of like abusive or neglectful. And there's these things that don't really make any sense later on. Like, okay, so there's this ex. There's this successful kids story about her, but she's having to wait on the trust fund money from her parents. Well, why did her parents not let her, you know, have this money from this amazingly successful book series? Right? So it's almost like she's beholden to the parents. And then this makes Ben Affleck beholden to her for all the money, all the support, all the she. She's doing everything. She runs the household, she runs the businesses. Everything's in her name. And so there's this, this sort of tier of dependence which puts Ben Affleck in this sort of default beta male position where he just sort of like, gives up and just wants to play video games and chill.
- [51:13]
Jim Bob
Yeah, absolutely. And then it made you wonder how much of the. The main character, the wife's character was, was honest with her own childhood. You could. You definitely were sold that the parents were like, creepy, sort of. This is my project, which she's then making Ben Affleck Her. Her Amy.
- [51:34]
Jay Dyer
Her.
- [51:34]
Jim Bob
Her Amazing Amy version. And so it's like a succession of the behavior that's happening. And yeah, I always noticed this too. Not, not. Not. Not that it's peculiar anymore, but it's always like the dad is just quiet and sitting back and just getting stomped on by the aggressive mom.
- [51:53]
Jay Dyer
Absolutely.
- [51:53]
Jim Bob
Our Amazing Amy. That's real. But I wonder how much of that's. Like, sometimes I watch a movie and I'm like, how much of it is presented like that, that that's the way it is? Or are they mocking that's the way it is? You know, like, are they. Because a lot of times, like, what I noticed in the theme of the movie, too, is that they were presenting marriage as if it's always the way it is is this dark, terrible thing where you just tear each other down, which is just nihilistic. Like, that's actually not how it is, but it's all. It's a lot of times presented how it is. Of course, in that situation, we wouldn't be surprised that it was awful. But they kind of pressed, like, especially at the end, they're like, oh, this is just the way it is. We just cut each other down and we survive. That's what marriage is. You just cut each other down. There's no. There's nothing really. Truly, the beauty of it is that it's horrible, essentially, is that that's. That's the end, you know, like, that's the end credits. And I was like, ah, that's. I mean, that's rough. That's not true. But where else could you go with such a terrible scenario? I. I thought, yeah, that theme was always through. Is like the beta lowered state man who's, like, always at the mercy of the powerful. In this case, both women. The mother and then the daughter.
- [53:15]
Jay Dyer
No, you're absolutely right to. That it's intentional. And also note too, that it's not accidental that Ben Affleck's dad is a. He's gone, right? He has dementia. He's completely sort of listless. So the older generation of Ben Affleck's dad and Amy's parents, like, they're both. They're contrasted, but both of the men are essentially gone. Right? The men don't really have any role in anything. And when Amy goes missing, for example, it's not Ben Affleck that organizes anything. He just sort of like, yeah, whatever. I don't know. He's totally listless. Which sort of mystifies the police and initially makes them, you know, suspicious of Him. But it's Amy's mom that organizes the website, the, the emergency press conference, this, that. So she's obviously the baller shot caller here, right? As this again prominent Eastern seaboard elite family which supposedly then loses all their money somehow and they have to dip into Amy's trust fund, which just doesn't. Doesn't make any sense. And it's almost like, you know, they have this, you know, tremendously elitist attitude, almost perhaps that they're even ripping off Amy. But then again, as we learn as the story progresses, Amy's not actually virtuous. Amy is actually a psychopath, a total narcissistic psychopath. And we don't even know if we can believe what she's saying about her parents either. Right? Because yeah, I'm sure her parents were, you know, vicious and, and malicious and, and mistreated her. But we don't know if we can believe Amy's stories of any of these events because as the film concludes, we know that she's actually like the most manipulative psychopath that you've ever seen in a film. And she's actually the film's villain and antagonist. Although we think for the most part that, you know, if you're watching it for the first time, you think, well, it's going to be Ben Affleck. Did he kill her? How did he do it? You know, does he end up, you know, leaving her? Etc. So, no, it's definitely a, a feminist strong film, but it's not a virtuous feminist type of film. It's like, no, in fact, the slay queens are even better at being villains than the guys.
- [55:25]
Jim Bob
That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's a, that's a. Through theme that they're making sure we, we gobble up. Even in like the serial killer kind of thing, where you're the proof that, that women are equal to men and you see this in comedy is that they could be as debaucherous as men in comedy or the truth of the women in. As a villain is that they're even worse, they're even better at being horrific. And it's like, is that a good selling point for women? Like, if the, if the top quality of feminism to, to demonstrate some sort of equality with men ends up being the wor. Mimicking the worst part of men but doing it better? Like, that seems to be a theme that hopefully is reaching its end. But, but that. I've seen that for years now where it's like, oh, I can do it. Better. I can do really bad, disgusting jokes. I can do this. I could be a. I could be drunk in public. I can do all these terrible. Look at me murder. Like, look at how good I murder. Oh, that's horrible.
- [56:23]
Jay Dyer
Like, women ripping really loud farts to, like, you know, I can fart as good as any guy can watch, you know.
- [56:29]
Jim Bob
Yeah, yeah.
- [56:29]
Jay Dyer
You know, you see this in social media, that kind of stuff. But what's interesting, as you said, too, is, like, the way that the film presents marriage is also, I think, the way that sort of elite, you know, Eastern seaboard or Hollywood, you know, elites would see marriage as this, you know, outdated, nihilistic, miserable trap where you just sort of grow to hate each other. And that's the way she presents it in the diary, of course, is that within a few years of marriage, they've disagreed about everything. Ben Affleck just wants to play video games. He's sitting around playing, you know, black ops, and he's buying, you know, video games and wasting his time. He can't find a job. There's a recession. And so she supposedly becomes the thing that she never wanted to be, which was. Was this angry shrew of a wife yelling at Ben Affleck. And so he kind of just gives up. And this, of course, leads to him finding a girlfriend because he teaches at a local community college or something and runs a bar with his sister. That's in. That's in Amy's name. And then Amy decides she's had enough. And this is the part, I think that's. That's the. Again, another sort of preposterous feminist angle on all this. And remember, this movie is produced by Reese Witherspoon, so she, I'm sure, played a role and sort of inject. Yeah, she interjected, I'm sure, some of her feminist values into it, because it's like there's something just sort of preposterous, I think, about the whole plot of what Amy comes up with. It's like she watches a bunch of, like, crime TV stuff, reads a bunch of crime novels and crime, true crime, like Helter Skelter. And this allows her to concoct this perfect crime, right? And because she's perfect Amy, or her dissociative other idea of herself as perfect Amy, she thinks she can pull this off and she doesn't care anymore. She just completely has, you know, dissociated. She split. She's ready to kill herself, to un. Alive herself over the fact that Ben Affleck is not living up to his potential in this marriage, even to the point of where Ben Affleck doesn't want to have kids with her or is sort of struggling with it. I know there's some question of whether they can have kids. She's like asking him to save his sperm, this kind of stuff. And Ben Affleck is, you know, elated to find out that supposedly the, the sperm bank has thrown away his seed, he thinks. But really, again, Amy has concocted a gigantic elaborate plot or scheme. I just think that the third time watching it, I felt like, is this, is this even like, is it almost satire? Because it's just so absurd to think that, you know, a successful, I mean, people in that state do at times snap and kill people, but to go through this elaborate, you know, ruse at all these levels, it's just so sort of outlandish and impossible. I wasn't even sure how serious to take, you know, her tale of, you know, after the diary part ends when she runs off and, you know, she's getting ripped off by the tweakers. It's just, it's just such a preposterous.
- [59:46]
Jim Bob
Plot.
- [59:46]
Jay Dyer
I don't know what you think about that.
- [59:48]
Jim Bob
Oh yeah, that kind of, that was where I kind of lost it. It was like, well, I don't believe this woman, as psychotic as she is coming from where she comes from, would put herself in the position where she thought it was liberating to be in wherever she was with these like low class people playing putt putt golf. That didn't make sense to me. That's not like a unknown. That's not the win that you think it is. And, and they didn't necessarily show her struggling with that. She was kind of, kind of free and just sitting around and feeling like, oh, I, I'm winning. That that part wasn't really realistic. I did want to mention that the one time they do show Ben Affleck in the upper position, what we would say maybe a proper hierarchical position in the match is when he's committing a transgression. So it's like the, you know, even when you try to throw in what it pro. What it kind of looks like a man sort of being above the woman. In some cases it's a younger woman. You know, the ethics of that are in question, but the model of it, and I see this constantly in themes where, where they'll present the proper model of a man and woman, but in a, in a, in the wrong, incorrect, immoral context. So it taints, it's like it's A well poisoning. So they do the well poisoning and then the, the, the real stuff, the real relationship is this very sort of hunched over, weak men going, don't tell your mother. You know, don't tell your mother. And we don't have to say it, but we know where that, where that comes from, generally speaking.
- [61:25]
Jay Dyer
No, I think you're spot on there. That's why. That's exactly why Ben Affleck is attracted to the younger girl. It's not so much just because she's physically attractive. I mean, he's, you know, into her or whatever, but she is feminine in their dynamics. She's not running everything. She's not, you know, wearing the pants, telling him everything that he needs to do do and trying to, to, you know, be his life coach. Right. He doesn't want a wife that's a life coach. He'd rather be with this, you know, sort of naive college girl. And, and it's not because, you know, in, in Amy's mind, it's because she's younger and has bigger boobs or something. Well, actually, I mean, they're both very attractive. Right? So it's not like it's just this purely physical thing. It's more so that Ben Affleck, I think, for all of his character flaws, was really just preferring something that was more masculine. And if, you know, in the way that Doogie Hauser interacts with, for example, Amy, who was Amy's ex during college, during boarding school, he then had this sort of obsession with her because Amy was more of a psychopath and he was more of a beta. You know, Amy totally uses him, right? She. She totally uses this beta male goober who, you know, comes off again as wealthy, kind of upper class. But, but I think maybe because Doogie Howser is a Skittles dude, in reality, it was kind of hard to believe. It's kind of hard to believe Doogie Howser is like this, you know, psycho kind of dude that wants to, like, punish the women in the bedroom or whatever. It just, it didn't come off believable. And Amy has nothing but contempt for him. She just absolutely can't stand him because he's such a beta simp that she actually ends up, you know, offing him and using him in her next plot, which is to further the storyline of Amy, you know, being kidnapped by Doogie Hower and, you know, imprisoned or whatever. All of which is complete nonsense, but people believe her story. And that's what gets into the media angle of it, because people want to believe these stories, and they want to believe in victims and virtuous heroes, and they want to believe that Ben Affleck can have this character arc where he, you know, redeems himself. And I thought that commentary on media was very profound, maybe more so media back in, you know, the 90s, 2000s, 2010s, not so. Media today doesn't really work this way because this is taking place when you have, like, Nancy Grace and you have Barbara Walters and you have these, you know, big shows that have a lot of cultural impact and influence. And that's where the sort of Tyler Perry character comes in as this, you know, oj. OJ kind of lawyer, you know, like, I forget who's the black guy that was OJ's lawyer. Everybody, everybody remembers him as this sort of hotshot, you know, lawyer that came in to do all the optics for OJ and to get him off. And Tyler Perry is playing this character, and I'll shut up after this. But this is where the media angle comes in, which is very perceptive, which was that he, he had to convince Ben Affleck and Ben's sister that it doesn't matter what you think is really going on. It's how the public and the optics perceive you. Because this is ultimately, he says, a trial by media. And when the media had that level of power in the west, they really could do trial by media. It wasn't trial by jury, it was literally how the media portrayed you. And they even say that in the film where, you know, the, the younger cop, right, who's arguing with the, the woman cop, the, the chief detective, the younger cops, like I watch Nancy Grace and I think he's guilty. So it's like it's even influencing the cops. And you're getting this impression that, well, should media actually have this degree of power in these high profile cases? Because I also think that you remember those big cases in the 2000s, the 20th, 2000s, the Natalie Holloway and the Casey Anthony. You know, the media love to get on these big stories, you know, like OJ type stuff, and go crazy with them. And was the boyfriend really the killer? Did Casey Anthony do it? You know, this kind of stuff. So the media's portrayal of these ridiculous stories, turning them into, you know, daytime soap opera drama, I think was very perceptive.
- [65:41]
Jim Bob
Yeah, and that's very alive and well now. I mean, making the murderer is probably at least more recent famous case where it was, it was, it was actually about media. Like, it was like the media is the character also in the, in the documentary and it also shows the media's view of man, woman relations. These kind of themes, They're. They're constantly in a tug of war of, like, when do you like the man? When is the man good? When is the woman evil? And these kind of. Kind of a tug of war of. Of when you're. When you're supposed to love the man and make him good and he has to simp and then say sorry and then he's better. And it's this. It just showcases that we're. We're in this kind of sort of like a. A paradigm war constantly of these things and it's always getting mucked up. I had to say, I wanted to say, before I forget, I was actually fairly impressed with Tyler Perry's chops when he's not playing Medea. He could actually act quite, quite proficiently. I was expecting a wig at any moment, though, but what was I going to say about that? Oh, yeah, Ben Affleck, even toward the end, right, they, the. The hypergamy is what they're trying to really sell. It's like if the reality of the situation is men do real, really, and when it comes down to it, run the world. And, and women can influence using manipulation, sex manipulation, cunning to impact the men who are running the world. And what you see is that the lengths that they have to go to get that done. But also the me, the media, and in this movie in particular, present Ben Affleck. Toward the end, she says something very specific. She says, you know, you like it, you like it. You. I make you a better man. I make you a better man. You. You're just you. You know what you'd be without me. And it's better for you to just pretend to be in this, like, sort of disparate power relationship dynamic where I'm better than you. And it almost tells the men. And you see it today, too, like the simpery going on today as a result of hypergamy, where you're. Where women are at, sort of like a false higher status because of materialism. And then which, by the way, that character represents, in a sense, what is she without the elite status of money and wealth, what would she be? She'd just be another psychopath, by the way. She'd be just like those, those meth addicts, right? Maybe that was the purpose of that scene is to almost draw out, look, these people are similar. They're just different classes of manipulation. They just rob you and punch you. Remember that the chick said you've never been properly Hit that was showing that that's how they operate, that's their world. She operates in a different world where it's like all this like, like really complex planning and stuff. And the Hicks are like, why you do that? You just steal the money. You just steal money and run. So I don't know, that's a lot there. But, but specifically the point of like that, that uneven balance of power dynamics that is constantly shoved down our throat. They almost tried to sell it at the end. Like, hey guys, it's maybe a good thing to be completely have your balls completely cut off. You're actually a better man, right? Just it's like pretend, you know, pretend to be a more powerful man than you are. And it's like, that's, that's really sad to me. That's a tragedy.
- [69:07]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. I'm not exactly sure what the point ultimately of the story is because like we said, it's absurd on certain levels. You know, Amy ends up coming out on top, obviously victorious. She is a flawed character in the sense of like, her plans. So she has hubris. And as you noted when she, when she goes to, you know, hideout with the Hicks, she's so arrogant, she assumes that like, there's nobody who could ever outsmart her, even in the criminal class. Because we know she interacted with the criminal class when she went to the mall to buy the gun. Early on, they were surprised to see her there. She obviously is so self confident that she would go into like a giant fentanyl den of a dead mall, like as this like, you know, supermodel blonde chick in the middle of the fentanyl zombie apocalypse trying to buy a gun. That's, that's very, very, you know, that's, that's a lot of confidence, right? She's so confident that she can pull off this elaborate, you know, true crime nonsense story, this Sherlock Holmes level thing. She's super confident when she's with the, the, the Hicks and that's, that ends up being one of her flaws, is that she loses it all with these Hicks because she thinks that they could never outsmart her and they just come in and just steal the money. And she overestimates the, the redneck chick, right? And you'll notice in every one of these scenarios, whether it's the lead chief detective woman or Amy's mom or Amy and Ben Affleck, or Ben Affleck and his sister or the tweaker chick, redneck chick and the boyfriend. The redneck chick is the one that convinced the boyfriend to do It. So throughout the entire film, the women are always the masterminds. And that's funny because at the beginning, Ben Affleck is going to the bar carrying a game, a board game called Mastermind. And he wants to play Mastermind with his sister, but he's want to play games and the rest of these people are playing real games in reality. So he's not in reality, he's not in the game. He's a, you know, a science. Yeah, yeah, he's an npc. Exactly. Exactly. So I think that ultimately you're right. The film consistently has a pretty feminist theme and narrative, but with the final sort of revelation that Amy has saved his sperm to impregnate herself because she. And she insists that they will have a child, even though Ben Affleck doesn't want to have a kid with her. Although he seems to say, like, at one point he did, like early on, he says, you know, in the second year of the marriage, if we just had a kid, then we would have probably avoided a lot of this. And then because he grows to hate her, he doesn't want to have a kid with her. And then she's deceived him into, you know, saving the sperm, and she sent a fake letter to him saying that the sperm had been. Had been tossed out, that she. She inseminates herself. Right. So she basically just runs the show. And. And although it's not about the CIA or anything like that, there is this sort of odd possibility that, you know, Amy went to Harvard, she's in the Eastern Seaboard elite, she seems way overly capable and competent at all of these things that she shouldn't really be able to do as this. Even. Even a sophisticated New York intellectual type person. Like, how does she know how to, you know, go disappear and ghost herself? How does she know how to, you know, just from reading true crime novels? I mean, she seems way overly capable at every one of these tasks, including killing people, murder, you know, concocting the scheme of, like, stealing this dumb girl's urine so that she can present herself as pregnant when she's not actually pregnant. It's just so over the top that it's almost like she ends up being Ben Affleck's handler at the end of the film. But she's like, no, you're not going to get away from me. I am basically your life coach, CIA handler, and you're going to do what I want.
- [73:03]
Jim Bob
Yeah, absolutely. Something else I noticed there was they present a bunch of like, limited, sort of claustrophobic for women Dialectics where it's like the. You got to break free of what your parents try to mold you to be. You just can't win. And then you got to break free from what society deems you to be as a. A woman and a wife. You just can't win. So what do you do? You basically freak out. And you, and you, you. You craft your own reality through any means possible. Deception, lying, you know, psychopathy and the rest. And it. That seems to be a theme that's obviously not peculiar to this movie, but it, to me, it was pretty richly available. It was like. It was like, don't you. You know, you don't have to be what they want you to be everywhere, like everywhere you look. But that's the thing is like that itself is an inversion. There's no duty, right? There's no duty from that point of view. It's all about slay, right? Slay queens. Why? No, just. Just because. Well, it all. It undermines what a marriage is. It undermines what the role of a man is, not just in a marriage, but in society. It undermines what a woman is, what a mother is. And it's constantly being sort of perverted and put back to us as if. And it really works on women. You know, women are easily. Even though they are pretty good at manipulation. You know, the irony is that they're easy to manipulate, generally speaking. And so I think this kind of stuff is. Is active still, obviously, where you're just telling women of all ages that watch out if you do get married, make sure you're like, you dominate what that is. You know, if you're going to decide what to be, don't make it. Don't make it influential from your parents, right? Cut off your parents basically and their views. Now, obviously they sold the parents as like very controlling. So. But there's, but the reality is like, you know, as people, as parents, as brothers, as sisters, we are influential on each other. We do help guide each other to good lives. And they kind of remove that. It ends up being sort of like individualism, right in the end. It's like it kind of really sells it. Like even if you're bonded to someone, we weigh it out, do sort of like a red pill analysis. Like it's really. It's really nihilistic. They don't. There's no aspect of pure. What real love is in these movies. Like, there's no, like maybe some element of sacrifice, but it's presented in a. The sacrifice is. Is actually gaining. It's a. For Gaining something yourself, you know what I mean? It's not for anything bigger. And, you know, I wanted to ask you before a lot of these movies you've been mentioning from Fincher, is he doing a job to reveal this stuff so people can. Can see these patterns and things, to kind of like be aware of it, or is it presented like that this is the way it is, Just, you know, just deal with it. Like, is it. Is it both? And.
- [76:05]
Jay Dyer
Well, I think adventure movies, there's a pretty consistent theme of nihilism. So I think, okay, he tends towards nihilism. I mean, sometimes there's redemption, for example, in the movie the Killer with, with Fassbender, which I think, again, I think is a really. Some of the cinematography is awesome in that film and I had to watch it three times before I decided that. So. Okay, so the purpose is actually that he, he does find redemption because it's a little unclear, but I did come to the conclusion that it's actually redemption for the hitman at the end. But I'm not spoiling it. You guys can watch it if you want to. But I mean, in other films it's. It's a little more. It's darker, it's more nihilistic. I mean, I don't really think, you know, Dragon Tattoo, that's pretty dark and nihilistic. You've got these, you know, lesbian, you know, biker. Her heroines that are the. Solving the human trafficking murders. I mean, you've got seven. I don't remember it being. It's pretty nihilistic because it just ends with Gwyneth Paltrow's head in a box. If. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like, so the serial killer, I guess, got away. I mean, but he actually has a new satanic serial killer moving movie coming out that also looks pretty nihilistic too, called psycho killer. So I, I think in general, no, he's probably. He's not really into redemption. I haven't looked into him in depth personally. Like, he could be involved in Satanism or crowingism. I'm not sure he does reference it in, in the films, but I think you're. You're right that ultimately the message and the meaning and the moral of the film is ambiguous. We don't actually know. We don't really expect this relationship to work, even though they're going to have a kid. And really the only reason that they end up having a kid is because Amy says at one point in the film, I want a kid because I will have Some purpose in my life. So without the child to sort of model as perhaps her parents modeled her, she feels like life is purposeless and she's pretty much willing to unalive herself without the child. So you could read it as something nihilistic, but also, Amy, you know, there's. Even though it is overall a feminist narrative, there's. There's things in it that don't also align with feminism. For example, we find out that, you know, Amy faked a grape story with one of the exes, right? That was all made up. And because Amy couldn't get this sort of, you know, nerdy, you know, ruffian dude to start wearing ties, she fakes a grape account and ruins this guy's life over that. And, you know, Ben Affleck finds that out later, we find out that she's completely despises, you know, beta male Doogie Howser, who. Who pretty much worships her. You know, he wants to buy her anything, give her this house. I mean, he's creepy and weird, but, you know, his, you know, just deference to her really sickens her. And a lot of that's contrary to, you know, the. The feminist narratives of female nature. And, you know, women just want a nice guy. No, they don't want a nice guy because a nice guy is like a beta simp in the sense of total deference. You know, they want a strong man who can lead. And that's why she's so intent on changing Ben Affleck or changing all the previous boyfriends. And once she sees that they can't, they won't change. She's done with them to the point of either killing them or moving on. Right. Or framing them for something. So it's. It's. It is feminist, but it's also kind of like, nihilistic in the sense that, you know, but. But also, female nature is. Is flawed. And a lot of feminist stories don't present female nature as flawed. It's. It's the. The archetype. It's the. It's per. It's perfect. It's what you should shoot for. Men should be more like women. Women need to be, you know, masculinized to be the true feminine. It's just. It's. In that sense, I guess it's a little more interesting than just if it was pure feminist slop.
- [80:05]
Jim Bob
Yeah. I think even today, not just for the female, but in general, they've taken the flaw of man and woman, and they've kind of made that the hero. Like, even with, like, autism or things wrong with you mental illnesses. It's like, you know, putting it up on a pedestal. You're very unique. Like, you're like, instead of being like, oh, no, that's a flaw. Like we're, we're sinful, we're chief sinners. This calls for humility, repentance. No, no, elevate it. It's your special. It's your special gift. Your gift is your flaw. That's what it is. It's like that's so inverted. I mean, it's, it's everywhere. I mean, all of, all of it. Like, I mean, even stranger things. It's like, that's the heroic thing. My. You're. What otherwise is a flaw from a Christian paradigm. That's the gift, right? I'm giving you guys a gift. I. You know what I mean? And then that's. I feel like that's gonna have an end now, you know, Nothing new under the sun, but I think they kind of played that out. Jay, I, I hope for a new sort of golden age of, of redeemed storytelling. And it doesn't have to be cheesy, over the top, on the nose Christianity, but I think that it's at least in high demand with movies and stories. And I, I hope people are recognizing it's just a matter of like, will Hollywood itself jump off of this broken wagon and actually, you know, restore some sense of decency? Now, indecency has always been there. You look at these old movies, things they've done with kids in the back, you know, you know, it's like it's always been there, but at least they had a partial through line where, where it reflected the reality of what it is to be a man and a woman in the world. What are the troubles? What are the. What are the triumphs? And, and those seem to be pretty universal. And now they're not so much as far as what they're showing, they're showing an inversion of that. And, and I don't know who's going to be. Maybe Hollywood's over itself. I don't know if it's going to get a defibrillator. What do you think?
- [82:05]
Jay Dyer
Well, I think just from a monetary perspective, a lot of filmmakers have realized that the money is actually in more wholesome types of content. So there is a kind of a resurgence of wholesome and independent films that are coming out. I'll be in one too, by the way, very soon. Hopefully things work out. But beyond that, I think you're absolutely right about this idea that trauma is a Secret superpower. And we did a podcast or two with the Psyop cinema guys. Shout out to them. And I put this actually in a certain Hollywood 3 too, because there's a. If you watch, say, X Men, New Mutants or if you watch Brian De Palma's movie the Fury, you have this notion, much like Stranger Things, that, oh, well, yeah, kids might be put into government programs and there might be, like, traumatic things that happen. But it's not bad because you see, it actually creates your superpower. So if you're, you know, graped or whatever, this is your secret superpower. And you can, you know, hone into that dark side and integrate the shadow self, literally. Right. That's what comes up in those films. Almost sort of like giving approval, you could say, to the trauma. And I would say that that probably is the case. I mean, on the one hand, every classical literature text, every story you have, the hero has to undergo some kind of struggle, some kind of quest that, you know, gives him character, that, that progresses him in the arc of the storyline. He has to learn virtue, he has to overcome his. His Achilles heel. Right. So. But at the same time, while that's part of literature, I mean, you also, like, it's getting weird with the way Hollywood is, you know, consistently portraying, you know, the trauma as the source of the superpower. It's just. It's bizarre, it's dark, it's. It's gone too far. Obviously, we know that. You know, certainly Hollywood doesn't care for children. That's. That's not what they're out there to care for. But last thought on I have on. On this is the way that. Oh, the other thing I was going to say is too, about her being kind of like almost like a James Bond level villain. She becomes a honey pot. I mean, she basically is willing to like, you know, sleep with Doogie Howser, who she can't stand, in order to assassinate him in order to further her plot. So she's like. Every level of like super spy assassin is suddenly activated in her, which is again, just very. It's just preposterous for, you know, who she is as a person, at least from her background as far as we know. There's also the public's perception that I thought was pretty funny the way that the public is totally fickle throughout the story because they hate Ben Affleck. They love Ben Affleck. They love Amy. They hate Amy. It's like the. The public is just swayed on the basis of the most absurd soap opera style story and the Soap opera story the public believes is totally different. Different from what's actually going on, even to the point of, you know, Ben Affleck and his sister are really the only ones with Tyler Perry that kind of figure out what's really going on. And it's not until the end of the film that the police detective woman finally catches on and realizes, oh, no, Amy's actually a complete psychopath and Ben Affleck was right, so, so like Ben Affleck is. Can't get anyone to believe him. And he's not a virtuous character. He's a flawed, you know, lazy character, but he's not actually the villain, which is. Which I thought was an interesting, you know, twist. It's actually Amy that is the villain of the film.
- [85:41]
Jim Bob
Yeah, Yeah. I would just end with that. You know, I keep looking back at like her childhood that, you know, the book making the. The Amy trying to craft your child into something that's actually fictional. And they have to run up against that comparison constantly in their life. That in a sense, Amy wrote her life newly herself and, and she wrote her own Amazing Amy. Like it was basically her sequel written by her. Totally controlled. Right. And. But then again, it's like the, the. They left it at that as opposed to. No, this is a flawed over correction. Right? This is like. This is like selling the over correction as the remedy. And we see this all the time. You're not. We, we see this now even just in general culture, the, the rejection of modernity itself. We're properly examining the flaws. Well, not properly. It is spiritual. People are looking at it that it's not working, at least modernity, individualism, liberty above all. But the overcorrection is they're going to anything that's sort of like ordered at all. And, and they go to Islam, they go to all these things, they go start a cult on. On a farm or whatever. And it's like, it showcases that, like, there's still a big paradigm issue with assessing problems to begin with, right? Like, we, we no longer live in a culture that even. I mean, I don't even know what the. Dude, I don't even know what the, what the percent of the Americans are that would. Would affirm that there's even such a thing, a real thing called sin. You know what I mean? Like, this is this kind of inversion where the sin can be transformed. You keep the sin, you just use it for good. That doesn't make any sense. You. You know what I'm saying? Like, you. Oh, the sin is sexual. Impurities, but you can turn it into an only fans account and make a lot of money so you can transmute it. And it seems like the transmutation, the attempted philosophy of transforming degeneracy into something good is still just pure materialism. And I. And I don't really think the movie itself got out of that paradigm. It's just, okay, is this a better material life now than it was before? And Ben Affleck's like, yeah, I guess so. I guess I'm a better. I have a better experience of myself now. It's like, dude, there's no higher. As I say on my streams, it's still just juliological. It's just. It's just completely without a higher purpose.
- [88:13]
Jay Dyer
Exactly. I. I don't get the impression that, you know, Ben Affleck actually got much better. I mean, he. He definitely seems to have sort of gone through his own, you know, trauma experience with all of the. The media and the whole country hating him and all this stuff, having to do the, you know, public humiliation, ritual apology on the Barbara Walter show or whatever it was. But we don't really get the impression that he's actually sort of changed. Really. All we've gotten is that Amy got everything that she wanted at the end of the day, even, as you said, crafting the actual Amazing Amy story in reality and solving their financial problems. Right. So, remember, everything was in her name. They still had some money issues. She owned the bar, she owned the house, everything. And now at the end of the film, you know, Tyler Perry says, well, I guess you guys, you know, you got your Lifetime movie coming. So presumably she's also monetized this, like, you know, ridiculous, this plot that she's engaged in. And she says in the, you know, when they're in the shower and trying to figure out what they want to do with their marriage, she says, I'm a fighter. I did this for us. As she's covered in blood. Right. And so it's just really preposterous, you know, psychopathic version of how we have to, you know, get along in society if we're going to survive. Yeah, supposedly, according to David Fincher, and I guess, I don't know how Vince Flynn interpret. Vince Flynn is married, so he does have a wife and kids. So I don't know if this reflects him. But one last thing. Do you remember the Ben Affleck meme where he's, like, got the cigarette.
- [89:43]
Jim Bob
Totally.
- [89:44]
Jay Dyer
That's exactly how he comes off in the film. There's even one scene when he's miserable. And he's, like, dragging the. The garbage out to the. To the curb. He literally looks like. It's almost prophetic for the real Ben Affleck with his own, you know, women problems with JLo, JLo and Jennifer.
- [90:00]
Jim Bob
Yeah.
- [90:01]
Jay Dyer
So I start to wonder, is this really, like, JLo's relationship with Ben Affleck?
- [90:06]
Jim Bob
I. Oh, man, I was thinking that too. Like, that is definitely still. Even though he's super famous and wealthy, that's still a bit hypergamous too. Like, it still reflects that. But. And. And also the end that the new beginning is a. Is a mirror of Amy's childhood again. So it's like they have a kid. The. The father is. Is this simp who just kind of submits to the powerful woman, and then they're gonna do it again. It's almost like you could write a. A sequel quite easily. And, you know, it'd be about a son. Right. Amazing. Amazing Timmy or something. That's their child.
- [90:41]
Jay Dyer
Exactly right. We're supposed to think that the cycle is going to repeat and the son that they're going to have because they have that conversation at the end where he's like, I'm leaving you. You know, I'm not going to stay here. And she's like, well, your son's gonna hate you. And then he's like, oh, crap, I didn't think about that. So, yeah, so she's, you know, she's going to rewrite and redo what her parents did to her. Exactly.
- [90:59]
Jim Bob
Right? Yeah. And at least they did one thing. They pointed to that it was at least very bizarre and off. Like, the mother was off. Like, it was actually funny how off she was. Some of those lines like, amazing Amy, you were like, am I in the dream world or am I in the actual world? When she said, like, that's so over the top, but. But really funny and relatable. So there were some funny moments. Yeah.
- [91:23]
Jay Dyer
I mean, again, even though it is overall feminist, there's still some sort of jabs and pokes at, you know, feminism and female nature and. And even all of these slay queen, you know, boss characters, like, they're all kind of ridiculous at the same time, too. So, yeah, I don't know if I would say Gone Girl is a great film. It's definitely an interesting analysis film if we understand kind of the nihilistic perspectives of Fincher. But I think Eden is a more Christian ish film. It's a little more, you know, virtue focused. But Gone Girl is very much just, you know, narcissism and postmodern collapse. Right. It's like. Yeah, and I forgot to mention too, what would Jordan Peterson say about, you know, going into the forest in Eden? Or what would he say about, you know, Amy's. What would Jordan Peterson say about Amazing Amy?
- [92:20]
Jim Bob
It's like, amazing, Amazing Amy. She's like, you know, she's reflective of a dream that her mother dreamt. You know, and my grandmother had a dream. I can't actually recite it on this dream. Well, you know, but it's disgusting. You know, when I was a child, they'd call me Amazing Jordy. You know, it's like, you know, what. What am I supposed to do? It's like, you gotta live into you. Sometimes we have to live into the created world of someone else, you know, and that's part of parenting, you know, we're crafting a future for someone who doesn't have the capacity to live it out themselves. Yeah, yeah. Actually, I want to ask you, did you see Pluribus? Because I feel like if I get through that, that's something I would love to jump back on.
- [93:06]
Jay Dyer
That would be fun. I'm four episodes in and. Okay. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure it's bizarre. I'm not sure where it's going. So how far did you get in?
- [93:17]
Jim Bob
Just the first. I was like, should I. Should I pay the amount to watch the rest?
- [93:21]
Jay Dyer
It's hard to say. I honestly can't tell you either way yet because it just gets weirder and weirder. So I'm not really sure where it's gonna go. I was definitely interested in the first two episodes. I thought those were really gripping and it gets really bizarre and I'm a fan of bizarre, but I don't know if it's a good bizarre or a bizarre yet.
- [93:40]
Jim Bob
Yeah, yeah, they do cop out bizarre like, you know, it's almost like Rick and Morty or Net or what was it called? Black Mirror, where it's like it's become a trick where you just create.
- [93:50]
Jay Dyer
I don't know if this is happening, dude.
- [93:53]
Jim Bob
It's always. It's always the same. It's like, well, actually there's three realities. You're like, that's just too easy. Too easy.
- [94:01]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. V Scott said for $2 Shari Papini lived out Gone Girl. Look it up. It's a real life nutcase. Oh, I didn't know there was a some real type. Is that what it's based on or is it just a similarity situation? Sherry S H R R I P A P I N I. We'll have to check that out. Ultra void. $5. I'm listening to this. Isn't this chick just like every Instagram model? I think the narcissistic social media element of where we are now was in some ways perhaps sort of, you know, prophesied, you could say, by the. The psyche in the film. I mean, it's not really about social media, but there's definitely a commentary on the way media shapes, you know, public perception, trial by media, that kind of stuff. And again, I think that most likely Vince Flynn was just pulling from, you know, those big, high profile Natalee Holloway, Casey Anthony stories and that kind of stuff. Dr. Evo, $10. Shout out to cringe Gore J. Dyer, aka Dig Douche. This is going to premiere tomorrow. It's a new song at Cringe Core Records. I'm looking forward to that.
- [95:09]
Jim Bob
That'll be cool.
- [95:10]
Jay Dyer
Appreciate that. Outer Abyss. Jim Bob's shirt is cute.
- [95:14]
Jim Bob
Okay, I know. Thanks.
- [95:16]
Jay Dyer
I'm jealous now because I'm not getting fashion compliments like Jim Bob. I'm gonna have to up my game. I thought these little, you know, these little, These marijuana leafs over here would get me some comments, but I'm not gonna. Latura. $10. Non realistic, real, non religious, atheistic worldviews cannot give justified, objective, non arbitrary prescriptions, including oughts or what we ought to do or pursuits that we should engage in with truth. And this undermines belief in it, yes or no? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think we would both make that absolute same Critique. Outer Abyss, $5. I love the live version of the Matthew McConaughey song. When you point to the guy in the audience and you call him kind of Rasta. Thank you. Yeah, I was live singing that to troll the audience. And then there was a dude with dreads, but he was like a white dude with dreads and a T shirt. And I was like, he's kind of Rasta. Anthony J. $5 random. But that. No, we did that one. That was the atheist one. Let's see. Cabang. Can we get Tucker talking to Ben Shapiro? Well, those are both, by the way, specialties.
- [96:31]
Jim Bob
Well, no, I was gonna ask Jay. I mean, what you gotta. You got to be talking to Tucky soon, right? It's got to be on the horizon, right?
- [96:39]
Jay Dyer
I've tried every known avenue and every. I've talked to every Tucker.
- [96:44]
Jim Bob
I mean, honestly, Jay. Honestly, Jay, guy, I've seen you all over the Internet. I'm actually afraid to talk to you because you're so knowledgeable.
- [96:52]
Jay Dyer
I Hope so. I mean, I hope that he, you know, like Alex. Alex is very, you know, good natured about impersonating Alex in person. I don't know how I'll have to feel out whether Tucker likes it or not, but. Well, I'm a little.
- [97:07]
Jim Bob
I'm a little bit hesitant, I'll be honest with you, that you're very knowledgeable about the CIA and I'm afraid that you're gonna know something about me that maybe I don't know myself. It's like, how could that be.
- [97:21]
Jay Dyer
Huge? Jackman says for $10. Jay, would you say the best argument against pragmatism is also what's about. What is the best argument against pragmatism? And then what is Acts 1 3? Well, I mean, pragmatism is ultimately just another position that's anti metaphysical and has no justification for what is pragmatic. Right. So it assumes the thing in question is sort of like, how do we know what is the best thing that works? Or why should we prefer something that works? What does it mean for something to work? To work to what end? For what purpose? Right. So it's really just ignoring the teleological or ethical, you know, constraints or dilemma and just saying, well, I'll just do what works. We'll figure it out. So it's not really a position. It's just more of a cop out.
- [98:12]
Jim Bob
It's like a description too. It's like Mal was pragmatic. Jeffrey Dahmer was pragmatic. You know, he was like, should I use a spoon? Should I use a. Should I use a straw?
- [98:21]
Jay Dyer
Exactly.
- [98:22]
Jim Bob
That's.
- [98:23]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. And then Acts 13 was. How do you interpret that? It says Jesus appeared. Let's see, after his suffering, he presented himself to the apostles and gave them many convincing proofs that he was alive. Why would he need to do that? Well, I think he did that for them. So he didn't do it because he needed to, because he needed anything. He did that because, as we know with the case of Thomas, right. Thomas was the doubting apostle. And so Jesus had to keep sort of. They were so in disbelief that he had to sort of. Of, you know, reassure and re. Red. Demonstrate to them that he was in fact resurrected and that he was the Messiah and that he was the same Jesus. Guys, remember, head over to CH. To Chalk.com CH.com use promo code JY60LIFEJ A Y60LIFEJ60LIVE to get 60 off all those great chalk products. Jim Bob, what do you got coming up? I've been watching a Lot of your streams and enjoying it. A lot of fun. A lot of really, really funny content over there. And he is linked in the show description and so what's, what's next, Jim Bob?
- [99:33]
Jim Bob
Well, as you know, I do a weekly show with hello listener called Ortho Thugs where we just hang out and have fun skits and things. But we are launching a show on my channel called Scud, which is Savage Carnage Unlimited Debate where we're going to present debate in a way that no one's ever seen it before. And we don't know what, what the reaction is going to be, but we're pretty excited to do our first thing. We're gonna do a little trial pilot with, with two interlockers and then eventually get more sort of meme debaters up there. Like I would love to host like Kent Hovind or something, you know, on a, on debate. But it's like half serious, half not. It's kind of like. So that's, that's up on the calendar at some point.
- [100:20]
Jay Dyer
Cool. That sounds great. And that'll be a lot of fun to watch. Rui says for $10. Jay, your Nick Cage and your Brock Obama impressions are perfect. Jim Bob, your Tucker and Jordan Peterson's are perfect. The amount of conversations and exclusive debates that we could have between these characters is infinite. Yeah, absolutely. We, we do need to do more sort of mock, you know, clips and videos and debates. That'd be funny. Ultra void $5. Jeffrey Dumber would use a spork 100%. I could buy that. I think you would. Guys, if you would hit like and share, I might stream later tonight. I'm not sure if I have enough energy. This was a lot of fun, Jim Bob. I think it'd be fun to do more film analyses. Tristan, my, you know, co film analyzer has kind of checked out of the Internet domain. He's tired of streaming. So I'd like to love to do some more film analyses if you'd like to in the near future.
- [101:13]
Jim Bob
Absolutely. What's the extent we could, I, I know we could talk about this stuff, but you can, you bring up your, you can bring up like short clips or something. No.
- [101:22]
Jay Dyer
Or not so much or it's, it's a challenge with my setup. I've done it a little bit with Tristan when we first were doing some movie streams. I could try to see if it'll work, but there's no guarantee either way.
- [101:35]
Jim Bob
This was, this worked great. I mean we, we were, we worked around needing visuals anyway. Yeah, yeah, I would do that in, definitely in advance. I like to give the audience like a, like a couple days or a week to catch up on the homework watch.
- [101:47]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, I meant to put the. I apologize. I meant to put the thumbnail up earlier and I got busy.
- [101:51]
Jim Bob
But no, no, that wasn't a problem. That wasn't a problem. We, we could just plan it more in advance, just like, kind of be like, here's the movies we're gonna watch. Because I like going back too, because like a lot of the, like you said, when you watch a movie, like by the fourth time, there's really interesting things you didn't see. And I would like to do that because there's really good movies that already exist. It doesn't have to be new. New movies.
- [102:13]
Jay Dyer
No. In fact, you know, I was looking back through my film analysis video catalogs, stuff that Jamie and I did, and you know, a lot of those old, they're, they're low res videos, you know, 720, 480 or whatever. And a lot of those should be kind of updated. And it's also, it'd be nice to go back to some of these classics like, you know, Eyes Wide Shut or, you know, Kubrick films, that kind of stuff, which I haven't watched and I haven't watched Eyes Wide Shut in probably five or six years. So I think you're right. It would be good to go back and, you know, revisit some of the classics.
- [102:46]
Jim Bob
Definitely.
- [102:47]
Jay Dyer
All right, well, thank you guys so much. Remember, if you want to get started with bitcoin, there's the bitcoin QR code right there for my wallet. If you want to support me, you can also go to the Swan bitcoin link in the show description. Bitcoin is at a discount discount right now. We had a little bit of a surge recently. So if you want to get started with bitcoin only, that is what Swan is, their bitcoin only company. No shitcoins over there. And if you want to get my books, you can go to the shop as well. Linked in the show description and get signed copies of Esther Hollywood 1, 2 and 3. Jim Bob has his savage memes on his. All of his books as well, right?
- [103:19]
Jim Bob
Yeah. Hold on a second. You guys have to finish this goal. You have four left and there's 11 minutes. So you need to finish the goal right now.
- [103:29]
Jay Dyer
If anybody wants to help me hit the goal. Right. We're. And I'll, I'll share some of the super chats with Jim Bob. So you'd be supporting Jim Bob too. You guys can leave some super chats. Let's see if I have any other things in my notes that I didn't get to.
- [103:43]
Jim Bob
Well, what.
- [103:44]
Jay Dyer
What are some ideas of some films maybe that you and I could do in the near future? I don't know if you. Do you have, like, a favorite director? Do you have a favorite genre or something you'd like to get into?
- [103:54]
Jim Bob
I. I like sci fi a little bit. Stuff like psychological thriller, sci fi. I like basically that whole genre. I didn't. I really never put the name of Fincher to all these movies. Once you started listing them, I pulled them up. It's like that whole genre, basically 7, like, 8 millimeter. That kind of dark thriller stuff where there's. Where there's something bad going on. But, yeah, the other genre would be. Yeah, you go ahead. I was gonna say the other genre is like something like Eden, even at a bigger scale, where it's, like, presenting societal issues that are trying to sort of like translate the issues of mankind. I like to look at that stuff and be like, oh, they. They kind of got that right.
- [104:45]
Jay Dyer
But, yeah, I know I could definitely come up with some possibilities in that. In that domain. And, yeah, like, if you like, you know, if you like the Fincher stuff like that, you would probably like Brian De Palma's stuff. He's got a lot of interesting psychological thrillers. And, you know, have you ever seen Mosquito Coast? That's a pretty interesting societal critique. With Harrison Ford.
- [105:09]
Jim Bob
Oh, yeah. Older movie, right? That's something I would have to watch again. Yeah, yeah, that's like old. Like, 80s.
- [105:15]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, it's a good 80s, you know, societal critique. Got that. We got a lot of good reference references here in the chat. Let's see what some people are saying. Yeah, I think we could do. Yeah, we could do. Definitely do Plural Pluribus. We could do Looper. Sure. Clockwork Orange could be fun. 2001's been done so many times. But, I mean, a Zodiac could be fun. That's a David Fincher movie. The Cell would be fun to do. That's a good. Have you ever seen the cell with JLo?
- [105:47]
Jim Bob
Oh, yeah, I did. Recent. This last year.
- [105:50]
Jay Dyer
I did actually, the River. That's pretty good. Excuse me? With River Zodiac. With River. Oh, wait, what are you talking about with River? I don't know what that is.
- [105:58]
Jim Bob
River Phoenix was in Mosquito Coast.
- [106:02]
Jay Dyer
Oh, that's right. He's the kid. That's right. Can I write this off on my taxes? Alder void says for $5. Yes. Birds aren't even real. $5. Thank you so much, Lauren. $5. Thank you so much, Ben. Bear watcher to dollars. Would y' all consider taking movie pics from the audience? Well, that's what we're doing right now, so absolutely. Bear make your suggestions. And yeah, I put, by the way, I put the cell in esoteric Hollywood too, so there's a pretty in depth analysis of that in my second book. But yeah, feel free to keep suggesting Andre Lopez says this is a little bit of J. Bob tax. Well, I like how you think. That's exactly right. Jim Bob pushes for the goals. $4. I created a way better unmute shirt using chat gbt. Can I send it to you? Yeah, send it. Text message me on Twitter or something.
- [106:54]
Jim Bob
Review hook. Someone said review hook. That's actually kind of funny.
- [106:57]
Jay Dyer
That is.
- [106:58]
Jim Bob
I mean, Peter Pan itself is a whole.
- [106:59]
Jay Dyer
It is weird.
- [107:00]
Jim Bob
Weird mind. Yeah.
- [107:03]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, there's a lot of. I mean, have you seen the Island? The, the, the Ewan McGregor and Scarlett Johansson dystopian movie the Island? It's pretty funny. I mean, it's, it's corny, but it could be good. 28 days. Yeah, maybe could do that. Red Sparrow. I did that some years ago, but it could be fun to revisit that.
- [107:23]
Jim Bob
Yeah.
- [107:24]
Jay Dyer
Do you like, like espionage, spy type films at all? Okay, Yep. All right, well, guys, we'll go ahead and stop there. I appreciate the. We got really close. We hit the goal. So hit. I think you're getting us up to there to 20. Alter void says F off. Okay. And he's joking, but we will. We will definitely F off. Thank you so much for that. All right. Thank you guys so much, Jim Bob. A lot of fun. And be sure and follow Jim Bob.