B (4:02)

Did you go to film school or did you just do it all on your own?

C (4:06)

So I started because we, we don't come from Monet. So then I, I still moved to Paris to go to. Because I mean the ways of, to get in the, the system in France and I don't want to get into politics too early, but basically, I mean, I, we had no idea of where to start, you know, so we looked into how to, how to, how to get into the, the industry. And then there were mostly two, two ways in France to get there, which was the science. The, the, the, at the time it was called the Leadak. It was like the big film school that was very, very ultra selective for the happy few part of the families and all of that. Or there was the scientists, the scientific side of it, more to become a technician. And, and so I tried to, to, to, to pass the test to, to, to go there because the other one, it was clear that I wouldn't ever be picked because I, at the time, I had no idea. But you know, I clearly didn't fit the profile that they were looking for in these big schools. So the, the science, the science part of filmmaking I was, I was interested in. I mean I've. I've really felt like I wanted to direct and do everything, but I said, okay, if I tried to get into these other more, more technical driven schools, and I kind of failed. So I tried to go to like universities and to, to learn more math and physics and stuff, but I just like, I tried, but that's, that wasn't what, what I wanted to, to achieve.

B (5:55)

When you, when you speak of the profile that what exactly how would you characterize that?

C (6:02)

Well, I mean, funny enough through like some different relationships once I, I was selected to be part of a, of a trip to the USA actually back in 89 to go visit some film school with a group of film students that were all part of this big school, like the, the Famous, I think it was at the time they changed the name from edech to Famous. And, and I, I ended up through like a relationship. It's, it's a long story, but I'll make it short. And I ended up going to, to a trip to the USA with a group of these guys, these people from this school. So I was able to actually meet the people from the school and then I realized, you know, later on that, you know, a lot of them were part of family who were already in the business or the, the, the lgbt.

B (7:02)

So. Yeah, more of a. Yeah. Political alignment that was necessary to be.

C (7:07)

Yeah, exactly. And I could, I could realize right away that I wasn't in, in on the same page at all with, with this group of people. People, you know, and I was kind of an outcast within that group because I was the only one or maybe were two or three that were not part of that school within that group. And I, I was completely ostracized, put on the side because at the time I loved, you know, like, I, I still love like commercial movies and Luke Besson was big in France at the time and I was, you know, like they, he did like the, the Last Battle, like his first movie, and then he did a Subway, which was like, oh, I loved Subway. And then for them it was like garbage, you know, like they, they were anti Luc Besson. They were all about super arthouse filmmaking. It was super leftist. But I, I didn't have the words to understand that at the time. I was like not even 20, you know, so. And on that. But that trip was interesting to come to the US for the first time for me. And then to, to, to visited, like, you know, I think it was USC and all of that. That was a, that was interesting. But. But also I really, it was my first encounter with people from the industry and that were designed on most of these people. They actually that were doing that group. They're all like very established French directors now. It's funny because I, I know, I know them, you know, but. But.

B (8:41)

Well, Luke Besson is an interesting character with, you know, the films that he started with. And then I think in the, in the, in the U.S. most people just know firstly of La Fem Nikita, and then you have the more Hollywood commercial stuff that he, you know, that he did throughout the 90s and the 2000s. And so was that kind of a model of what you were thinking, okay, I want to break into the Hollywood domain and then go ahead?

C (9:06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally. I mean, I mean, first I was a huge fan of, you know, big American movies. I mean, Steven Spielberg, of course, but, you know, Sergio Leone in Italy, that was a huge inspiration to me, you know, coming. I come from Italy as well. My grandfather was Italian. So I always felt some connection with Sergio Leone and, you know, like the European version of. Of American filmmaking in some way, you know, so that was a big inspiration. So. But yeah, I was very much into commercial movies, but commercial with a twist, you know, like interesting commercial movies, not just like the big, big stupid stuff. And so where were we at?

B (10:00)

Yeah, I mean, I understand that because I think most of, like, most of the films that I focused on were a lot of the commercial films that, you know, when I wrote the essays and whatnot that I. That I found to be to some degree interesting with different elements. Even if the films were not that great, there's always usually some interesting elements at least. But, you know, it's very different in the US Than it is, I think, you know, probably from what you're used to, because, you know, when we were talking, you said, why do people like some of these action films and these action heroes? I don't understand.

C (10:30)

And.

B (10:31)

And, you know, in the US it's more so about the experience, the, you know, elements that would probably be looked down upon in the art house sphere. It's not very. It's not very sophisticated. It's not. It's not really seen as art. It's more of a, you know, a baser sort of experience, I think, for a lot of us filmgoers because we just don't have that, you know, depth and sophistication of understanding the arts that probably a lot of people in Europe are probably still taught that to some degree, although now it's all probably just totally leftist. Does that make sense? What I'm saying it just doesn't translate into. People don't think of it as art. They think of it as like a

C (11:07)

commercial almost, I would say. And it's funny with my wife, we laugh about that, but we say that, you know, culture is part of the, of culture in, in France and, and pretty much everywhere. You know, you have like film festivals everywhere, you have lots of, lots of galleries. Yeah. I mean you, you can really discover a lot of things when in America. I mean you have like big cities with, with a lot of that, but outside of that you don't, you don't have too much and it's not really part of the culture, you know, I mean just the American culture, but the, the outside culture is not really part. When in France it's such a, I mean in Europe in general, I guess you have more of a culture, a cultural thing that's going on, like that's part of, of, of the people, you know. But that, that's, that's, that's a big difference I would say. But after that it's, you know, it's good and it's bad, you know, you have the good side on the bad side, you know, because then people start to lose their start, start to lose their culture, if I may say that. Because they are so within a cultural thing that at the end, you know, it's like who, who, who are they? Who? And then as a, you know, as, as a French person, at the end of the day you end up with a President Macron who says French culture doesn't exist, you know, and he actually said that, you know, which is.

B (12:46)

Yeah, it's crazy. Exactly. I mean he's just a full on, you know, counter initiation, inversion, revolution, Bolshevik revolutionary with, with that character. I mean it's so, it's so extreme.

C (13:01)

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B (13:16)

Okay, so you end up, when did you end up in the US and in the LA scene? And what was your initial experience there?

C (13:25)

I mean the first, you know, I wanted to make movies. I moved to Paris and then in Paris I studied like a small French film school just for one year just to learn the basis it was, was very inexpensive private school. That's all we could afford. And then after that I created a production company in France and I became like very proactive, producing lots of different kind of Content mostly short films at the time and this production company, I worked with lots of different directors. I was directing a lot of them, but I was also producing for other directors. I always like that part of filmmaking as well. And, and, and, and I was able to produce also lots of music videos. I connected with, with, in independent rock bands and we did a lot of, A lot, a lot of music videos for bands that are pretty big now in France. Actually rock, alternative rock bands, really cool bands. And I worked with them closely for a while and then until I, I was able to put together my first feature film. That you discovered and that's, that was,

B (14:38)

that was really interesting and, and I know this might be a really dumb question for you, but for the sake of this audience, a lot of people who won't necessarily know a lot of this stuff because we, we've had a lot of growth in the last year on the YouTube channel, so we got a lot of people that will be new to some of these things. Could you describe the difference between the role of a director in the film versus the role of say in Le do. You were the producer. So what, what exactly was the distinction there that you were mainly involved in no Lizard?

C (15:09)

I was actually, yeah, I was the producer, but I also directed the movie. Yeah, I was, I was, I directed that one. That was my technically my first feature film as a, as a director.

B (15:19)

I apologize, I watched it. But then the IMDb just lists you as the. As a producer, but maybe it's a producer and director. I was just looking.

C (15:27)

They, they keep on changing the presentation and now you don't really know what you're looking at. But ye, I, I. Because I'm probably still that producer first, then as director. So then probably that's why I don't know. But yeah, that's, that's my, that's my first feature film as a, as a director. Producer and many more, many more jobs because it was like a super low budget. We still shot in 35 millimeter because at the time that's all, I mean that's all, that's what was available to make movies. And that was. So the movie looked, I think the movie looks pretty good. That was shot. Yeah, it was, it was really hard to, to make that movie. I did not enjoy the, the process.

B (16:15)

Well, it turned out really well. I thought that was a, it was a really interesting film. It didn't go in the direction that I expected. I like the, you know, we're sort of getting into the psyche of this garbage man, this sort of alien Alienated, out, you know, outcast character. I won't spoil it. But, you know, perhaps he's dissociating. Perhaps there's these, you know, repressed, you know, angst against society and whatnot. But I mean, again, so what, what exactly is the difference between, because you have a lot of producing credits and then you have directing credits? Could you, just for the sake of my audience who might be new to it, explain the difference between when you're a director versus a producer?

C (16:58)

Also, the meaning of producer and director is also a little different in France and, and in, and in the US that's what I learned the hard way, actually, when I first moved to the U.S. that's another, another story. We may touch that later. But basically, in France, the director is kind of the, the captain of the ship is the one who's making all the decisions and he's, he's making his movie. When in America, the director, most of the time he doesn't really make his movie. He makes the producers movies. So. So in, in France, the director is, is by law, actually, he's. You. You cannot take away his director's cut. For example, in, in France, France, when in America, the director, the director's cut is, you know, I mean, it's very rare that the director's cut is released. Just big directors, they can afford to.

B (18:01)

Is. Yeah. This is when we hear about somebody having final cut. Right. Like Tarantino gets final cut.

C (18:07)

Right, Exactly. Final cuts. That's, that's, that's customary for every director in France. So by law. So which is, which is great and actually great and, and not great because the director could be his own worst enemy at some point. And it's good that, that he has a good relationship with a producer who can. Because in France is if a producer wants to fire a director because he cannot fire the director. So if the director becomes nuts and then he wants to do this or, you know, then you're stuck with whatever the director will give you. So, so that's a problem. But at the same time, in the US the opposite, you know, like the director can, can have his movie taken away from him. And then, you know, that happened to me as well. So, so I know that I, I learned that. So, you know, so. But the director basically, on set, it's a very different configuration because the director on set is the guy who's there, you know, calling all the shots, theoretically. And he's the one who decides the way he wants to shoot stuff. He's the one who picks all the technicians. He wants to work with is the one who's. He's really. He makes the movie the way he wants it to be. He picks the, the music, he does everything. The producer is mostly the, the guy who's putting together. That's, that's for France. In France, the direct. The producer is managing to. To put together. Put the money together so the movie can happen. And, and in France it's usually not his money. You know, he works with the. I mean producers don't put their own money in the movies most of the time, you know, which either in the US or in France. In France it never happens actually. But. But because you have a whole system for the tv. The, the big, the. The thing is in France, the, the television stations are actually financing the movies. So that's why, that's why even though there are movies, you always feel like there's a French. There's a TV movie element to a lot of French films. Unless they're art house, you know, but otherwise if they're kind of commercial because they're always designed for tv.

B (20:32)

Right? So I guess there's a pro and a con to the relationship to the state, right?

C (20:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, exactly.

B (20:39)

Since, since the state tends to be kind of, you know, left socialist, obviously, like do they tend to also step into the films and do they censor the art? Are they pretty good being off hands on. On the art?

C (20:50)

Well, the, the, the biggest issue is that there's self censorship, you know, so for directors, they know that if they want to make a movie happen, they have to talk, they have to. To turn into woke world and starts. Start writing in. In that realm, you know, otherwise these movies don't. Don't get made. You know, the only, the only movies that are not work that get made then they are made outside the system. Because in the system, you know, you have to, you need to fit into the. Exactly the rules. So that's, that's the big downside actually of the French system. You know, all the movies, they're all like kind of. But it's like Hollywood. You like a big propaganda machine at some point. So the system found a way to. To impose the. To impose the way they want the movies to be. And that's the same in the US that it is in France from, with different tools, but the result is the same.

B (21:51)

So you produce a bunch of indirect French films and then you end up in Los Angeles and then is it I Am Wrath? That's the first sort of Hollywood production that you get involved in?

C (22:07)

No, when I first moved to the US was in 2005. I, I got picked up to to do a, a movie that went very wrong. So it's a pretty long story. So I don't, I don't necessarily want to give too much into it. And, and also it's a film I'd rather people not see.

B (22:33)

See.

C (22:33)

Anyway, so. Okay. Which, I mean, my name is technically not in the credits because I, I, I actually signed a movie. You know that name, Alan Smithy.

B (22:45)

Yeah, yeah, the, the pseudonym that everybody uses.

C (22:47)

So I, I actually signed my first movie in the US with the name Alan Smithy. And

B (22:57)

was that show, was that Showgirls?

C (23:00)

No, I wish, I wish it was Sugar. But so, and then, and then after that movie, I was supposed to do another. Actually did LA I hate you before I am Rice. Got me.

B (23:12)

Oh, okay. Okay.

C (23:13)

Yeah. So. So. And I shot another piece of a movie actually that helped that, that led to, to area I hate you. So because I moved in 2005, 2006 in the US and then started shooting that other movie that was called An American Hero. That was a. I shot pieces of it and I have a few good scenes. And that was a really, really unique concept. I was able to, to gather a little money from friends to, to make this. And then I was thinking, oh, it's gonna look super cool when people are gonna see that. They're gonna pay for the rest of the movie. But then that did not happen like that. They say, oh yeah, we'll pay, but not for that movie. We'll pay for another one. And that's how, that's how Lai2 got made.

B (24:01)

So that was the first sort of. That was your baby, right? You came to la, you finally got that made. And, you know, we got to see that. You premiered that when we were with you in Mississippi at your film festival there. You're. When you premiered your most recent film, Vampire Project. And that was really, it was, it was a wild acid trip. I thought that was a really fascinating way to kind of tie in these different people's timelines into this sort of culminating, you know, sort of, you know, unexplainable phenomena, the sort of the mysterious that invades this realm out of nowhere. And it's like you think that initially that's these four people sort of moral dilemmas that they're caught up in. And then it kind of goes off into perhaps the demonic, perhaps something else. I won't give away too much because people might want to go see it, but talk. Let's talk about some of the Influences on la. I hate you because. Did you. Was this partly spawned out of your immediate dislike for Hollywood and the industry there or being just based on the title?

C (25:10)

So, so what happened is I was supposed to make another movie. I mean, it's, it's interesting. In Hollywood a lot of movies get made because another movie fell apart. So then that movie gets made. And so, so what happened is I was, I worked for a little while with a producer and on a project that was a really, really cool script. I didn't write that script. It was called Motel at the time that turned into an actual movie later on a big movie with Robert De Niro. But I was supposed to direct that movie. It was written by James Russo. And that movie ended up falling apart. It was a billionaire who wanted to finance that movie and then he wanted to have General Renner to be the lead and then he was ready to pay for Jeremy Rainer. And that's the year where Jeremy Renner was nominated for an Oscar. So that was probably like 2009, I think. And, and, and, and we said it's not gonna happen. Jeremy Reiner is gonna be, he's nominated for an Oscar. He's not gonna do a little movie. You know, he's gonna be on big stuff. And so the, the, the, the billionaire guy decided. But then the producer who was friend with the billionaire said, hey, maybe we can sell him to do a small movie. You know, like, he gives us like a few, a few thousand bucks, then we'll figure something out. And then, then that's how I, that's how I, I had to pitch him something like almost instantly. I remember we were having a drink, a bit depressed that the other movie was not gonna go. And then, and then I, I pitched him the concept of LA I hate you just a bit out of nowhere. And, and funny enough, it says at the beginning that it's based on true events and it's actually real. That, that most of the, you know, it's a three story concept and these three stories are kind of based on real stuff and so on. And, and it's actually based on, on the, on people. We knew this producer and I, we knew this couple and, and his, his girlfriend was handicapped. And then, and then a friend of his say, hey, you should get rid of your girlfriend because she's gonna be a nightmare to deal with for the rest of your life. And that was, I thought, yeah, that's a funny story. We should turn that into a movie. And then I got the idea of the guy who wants to cheat on his wife. And then things go wrong. And then the third story is also stories we heard in Hollywood. Like. Hey. And it's funny because it ties to a lot of what's happening in la. I hate you is kind of reminiscent of the Epstein Power. Power.

B (28:04)

I was gonna say. Yeah, you've got, you've got this sequence where it's tying into these organized crime networks and there's, you know, Eyes Wide Shut type parties going on. So. Yeah, it's exactly what I was going to say.

C (28:16)

And we, and we already had that in there. And I had no, you know, I mean, it was like in 2009 that we wrote that script. So. And, and it's funny that there was already like the, the, the whole structure of, of Hollywood, you know, that that was in the movie as well. So. And then we got the idea of these three stories and then the, the, the, the producer wanted me to work with this other guy who's actually playing the role in the, his own role, pretty much of the girl with a girl that's handicapped. And, and he, he, we started to write that together. I gave him like some, some notes. He started to write. And then I wasn't, you know, super happy. So at the end I ended up like, you know, rewriting pretty much everything with him. And, and then we made the movie for almost no money, you know.

B (29:09)

Did, did it turn out basically fully the way you envisioned it? Was there things that you, you felt like didn't come together, or is it pretty much the way you wanted it?

C (29:21)

Yeah, it's a good question. I never really, I never really see things exactly like that because I know that the move, the final version of the movie is final when it's done, you know, So I know there are some directors like Hitchcock, they say, oh, yeah, the whole movie is in my head. And then you just have to shoot it and put it together. But it's already made in my head. No, I don't really work like that. I like to, to, to get inspired by the people I meet and see how things are going to turn. I don't have like preconceived because especially when you work on a low budget, you know, what's the point of, of picturing imagining a movie that you will not be able to make anyway, so, so that's why I work with, with what, with what I have. And, and in that movie, I mean, I had la, I lived there, I knew tons of people. We had access to lots of locations. And so that's, that's the beauty of Being in LA is that you have all these locations that are easy on the low budget. And it was at the beginning of these new cameras that were out like the DSLR cameras we shot. We, I think we were probably the first people to shoot a movie with the Canon 7D at the time. And so that was, that was the freedom. We shot that movie with two of these 70s or one. I think we just had one most of the. Most of the time, I think.

B (30:50)

And you managed to, you managed to get Malcolm McDowell in there as well, who plays an interesting villainous role.

C (30:56)

Yeah, no, we got an amazing cast at the end. I'm very, I mean, tourist, to answer your question. Yeah, I'm very, I'm very pleased with the movie for sure. As I mentioned to you, I think considering the budget, considering the way it was conceived, everything was written very, very quickly because it was kind of a challenge. Hey, we need to get that movie done quickly if we want it to happen. And so it was just a lot of fun. I really enjoyed the whole process, shooting everywhere on the freedom of these small cameras and, and we were able to get like a special permit to shoot like with a DSLR because at the time people were not used to seeing people shooting an actual movie. So. So you could have like, it's like a photo shoot pretty much. So you were like very little equipment and the actors had fun. And I think, I think the movie turned out pretty well considering, you know, the how. How it started. I'm. I'm very pleased with the movie because it's. It looks like it looks like me in some way. You know, like, it's. It's like, you know, when I talk about my movies, I know they are not necessarily great, but at least they are unique. You know, it's not like a copy of. Of thousands of other films that people have seen way better, you know, 500 times.

B (32:18)

No, they're definitely, they're definitely unique. I mean, you know, the aliens was. Was interesting. It's not about aliens. For those that are curious and then, you know, I hate L. A. Hate you. Was. Was very unique vampire project. Very unique. What were some of the influences specifically when you made la? I hate you.

C (32:42)

I don't. I don't really think of that really, when I, When I make a movie, I just don't. I mean, it was probably more visible when I did Les Alienate, the Outcast, the American title. I mean, there was like, clearly influences at. From the time, you know, the movie was shot in the late 90s. So it was a Post. I would say it's a post seven movie. So, you know, everybody was trying to do like his own version of seven in some way because that was like a movie that was like a landmark. And so I, I guess and I was, and I was hanging out with a lot of other French directors that were also all like huge fans of, of, of David Fincher. Fincher. It was very, it was a bit of a group thing. So that's why I, that's why the movie is a bit part of a group thing, like putting rock music in the movie. We have a rock band. I don't know. I was kind of part of a group of people. And then it feels like this movie is not that it's, it's kind of who I was at the time, I guess, you know. But I hate you was is really more. Even though it's also an old movie now, it was shot in 2010 or 29, 2010, but it feels like it's still me, you know, I still see myself in that movie when I see Outcast. First of all, I haven't seen it in a long time and, but it felt like I wanted probably too, too much to be part of something that wasn't necessarily me. When la. I hit you, I just like emancipated. I thought, okay, I don't really, I'm not trying to, to do anything else than other people would do. I just do my own thing. But of course, I mean I love lots of director and I'm sure you can see some David lynch elements to it.

B (34:35)

Some.

C (34:36)

I actually borrowed a couple of things from Gaspar Noe that, you know, I, either I, I, I like, I, I used to know him a long time ago and especially I, I think his first movie is a masterpiece. I stand Alone and this guy is, I think he's very talented and that was someone that, you know, I borrowed a couple of tricks I would say that I use in, in, in LA2 so. But not real like influence I'm trying to, to, to, to imitate these guys. You know, it's, I did my own thing and, and also very importantly, I mean I'm an editor, so I cut a lot of movies for other directors. And so, you know, when you cut the movie, that's where you really shape it. And then that's when a lot of the creativity comes from the editing, I think. So like David lynch probably works on his own movies. I would, I would assume, I don't know if he works with other editors, but I know he does the Sound design of his own.

B (35:47)

Used to the sound for sure.

C (35:48)

Yeah, anymore. But the sound and I've. I've done that as well. I hate you. I did pretty much everything, like post production in terms of post production. That's the first movie where I actually did like 100 of the post production myself, pretty much.

B (36:03)

So then how was that one received at the time? Did it get. Get play sort of locally around LA was an art house film or what? How was the reception of that?

C (36:16)

It was. The thing is, the producer I was working with was mostly evolving within a group of. Of producers who are mostly involved in B movies, I would say B, B action stuff. And that's kind of the group I kind of connected with in LA as well. So. So that means when you're part of that group, you're gonna have to. To work with the. The people connected to that group means the sales companies, distribution, etc. So which means that the movie. And we, we had a lot of. We had a bit of a fallout at the time with the producer and the producer is actually playing the. Read one of the lead roles of the movie. He's playing the, the, the. The lead guy of the first story. The guy who goes to cheat on his wife.

B (37:08)

Right.

C (37:09)

And so, so that, that guy. We had a bit of a fallout after the movie because he was the only producer of the movie, I mean, financed by that billionaire. But. But he was like the one in charge really, and he was able to call all the shots. And then at some point we, we were actually on the short list to be in Slam Dance, I think. But then they realized I had made another movie before, so then it couldn't be in the selection anymore. I mean.

B (37:40)

You mean you had had another film at Sundance? Is that.

C (37:43)

We're saying no, no, because my. Because Slam Slam Dance.

B (37:48)

Sorry, I'm sorry, I thought you said Sonic Slam Dance.

C (37:50)

Yeah, Slam Dance, which is an offshoot of. Of, Of Sundance that, that used to take place at the same, same location. And that's still a very. That's still a real festival. And they, they wanted to play la. I hate you. But they only play first feature films for directors. I mean, to, to summarize, because a little more complicated, but basically they wanted to play the movie, but then at the end of the day they could not play it. So that would have helped a lot. Same thing with Le. Le was in the short film in one of the competitions in Can. It was in the, in the, in the short list in one of the competitions in can. But it at the critics week, but it, it was not. So it's almost like I'm second, but so I didn't get to the bigger festivals. And then when you don't get to the bigger festivals, it's kind of, it's painful because after that the movies, Val, the value of the movie and the way people regard the, the movies, then, then you know, there was pretty much nothing. That's the, that's the hard core reality of film festivals. Basically. If you're not in one of the major festivals, then it's kind of pointless. You know, you can have all the pro of the awards you want in all the festivals. If you're not in one of the happy few festivals that are extremely political, then, then your movie is worth nothing, pretty much. So after this, which is also true for most of the movies that are in Sundance by the way, just to be fair, like most of the movies that are in Sundance, they are the, the, they will never be distributed, they will never be seen anywhere or they'll do other festival ones. But these movies will make no money. And that's the harsh reality of independent filmmaking. Most of the, of the films that get made don't make any money at all. That's just the reality of filmmaking. So it's, it's not a business where you make money actually.

B (40:00)

So after this, you, Is this when you begin to work on some more of the more commercial action products like I Am Wrath. How did that come about?

C (40:10)

So I Am Wrath was kind of a follow up after LA I hate you because I still had some producers wanted to work with me after really I hate you the movie. So to answer quickly to your question about the, the distribution, the movie was distributed pretty much, it was released pretty much everywhere. But from, you know, from like as a B movie, like with a pretty awful poster, they try to sell it as a B movie.

B (40:37)

I remember you saying this was kind of something that you put a lot of your, you know, writing and your time into and it ended up getting changed into something that's not really what you wanted. Is that right?

C (40:48)

That's why I am Wrath. Yeah, I am R. That's what happened with I Am Wrath. So I, I had a, an idea and because I was busy working on other movies in post production because to make a living, you know, I suppose do post production on movies. And so I had a good concept and I called a good friend of mine who was one of the lead actors in, in la I hate you as well. And I, I pitched him the, the project I gave Him. The. The whole structure. And, and then, and then he loved it. And he wrote a pretty good script out of that. And that script. Very. We wanted to make it originally with Michael Bean because we knew him. And then we. It was a, you know, like someone that we could easily have. And then. And then we. We pitched it to a few companies and then they. They say, oh, Michael Bean, why don't you go with a bigger name? I mean, because this is a great script. This is going to do great. And. Because it was a great concept originally, better than what it turned out to be. And, and so we, we actually. And I. And I was attached to direct the movie originally. And so that's why I wanted to make it smaller, because as soon as you get bigger names, then that's when the. Let the games begin, you know, and then, and then that's when everybody wants a piece of it.

B (42:18)

And that's where the interesting.

C (42:20)

Yeah, yeah, no, that's where. When you get. And then they say, why don't you get Nick Cage? And then we had Nick Vale Longa producing the movie. So with me directing, Paul Sloan writing the script based on. On the. On the story I gave him. And then. And so we had a good combo. Nick Vale Longa is. He won the Oscar for Green Book. You know, later on he wrote Green Book, he produced Green Book, and he's a. He's a good friend. And so he was. That was way before Green Book, though. So we had that project. I am. Was. And then he. Nick directed a movie a while ago with Nick Cage. So he said. And some. Some sales people say, hey, why don't you get Nick Cage to make the movie? And then Nicole's Cage. And then they say, oh, yeah, so we met with Cage. And then k. Say, hey, I wanted. That was. That was when Cage had some money issues at the time. So he was pretty quick to say, oh, yeah, I'll do it under. But he loved it. I mean, he said, yeah, the script is awesome. Let's do it. I won't change anything. Won't change a line. And then, and then, as you know, as it often happens, that's when we got the financing pretty quickly. Everything was ready to go. And then that's when some distributors, they saw the. The juicy thing. And then they started to want to get rid of the. The French director. They wanted a commercial director to do the movie. So they started to put pressure on Nick to. To. To change the director. And I wasn't. I. I didn't want to, but at some point you know, they say yeah, but if we don't do that then there's no movie, blah, blah blah. I mean the whole point, the whole thing. And so I said, and they say oh yeah, you're gonna have a producer credit and you'll be handling the, you'll be handling editing, etc. Etc. And, and then, and then it became, I mean I could get into all the details, but it's gonna be a very, it's, it's, it's a little long and painful. It's fun though. But, but, but to, to make it short they said okay because they wanted, the distributors wanted to bring like a cheap b, B grade director on. Cage says no, if I, if I'm gonna make that movie, I want a big name director. So Cage called William Friedkin, freaking reads it, say okay, I'll do it. And then that was great. So then I kind of was happy, you know, I said okay, I'm not directing but if it's free, if it's free, Friedkin is gonna direct it, then I'm fine, I'm fine with it. So then we moved forward with that. The movie was actually announced with Friedkin directing with Nick Cage the, at the Toronto Festival, I think. And, and, and I think there's been some, some conflict between. But because Friedkin wanted to rewrite the script and Cage wanted, wanted to, to, to change stuff. But then they both didn't agree, I think. So my understanding, because at that point I wasn't too much into all the details. I heard, you know, from different sources of the people what was going on. But my understanding is that there was a fallout. They didn't agree on the direction. So Cage said okay, I'm going to direct the movie. And Cage was in, wanted to direct the movie, hired my buddy Paul to, to, to rewrite the script. Paul Sloan, who wrote the original script based on, on the story I gave him and, and that movie on Cage, I think in they rewrote a script which I never read that was very different from the original. And, and then I think the, the distributor said hey, but that's not the movie we want to make. It's the night different. And so everything fell apart like it happens all the time in Hollywood. And then.

B (46:37)

So how did it get to be John Travolta and not Nicholas?

C (46:40)

Oh yeah. Later on Nick hooked up with in you. I think Nick Vale Longa knew through maybe with Paul as well. They knew Chuck Russell the director, you know, who was like a big studio director. And Chuck said okay, I'll I want to do that movie. And then how it came to be Travolta, I think. Oh, yeah, I think I remember that at that point we talked to that producer, Michael Mendelssohn, who ended up being the final producer of the movie. And. And Michael had wanted to make a movie with Travolta and he had all the money to. To make offers. And. And then. And then he sent. But I remember that there's been a pretty major rewrite in the meantime when Mendelssohn took over the project. And he said, oh, yeah, because he's just. So. He just saw John Wick at the time and then. Because the whole story, I don't know. I mean, you. You've seen probably the. The movie, the way it was released, and. And the character is a average guy. His wife gets killed.

B (47:51)

Yeah, yeah. He's a former agent of some kind, right?

C (47:57)

Yeah. But it makes no sense because in the. In the original story, it was more like Death Wish, like a normal guy who is. His wife is getting killed and he has to take matter in his own hands and. And on meets. Kind of. Meets kind of falling down. That's kind of how I was pitching it at the time, you know, so you have the guy who gets into a revenge spree, but then he gets caught into his own craziness and. And he can stop. So that was very different. And then. And then when Mendelssohn got involved, he just saw John Wick and they thought, what if the guy. I remember. I always remember that moment, you know, because what if the guy is. Is an ex CIA?

B (48:44)

I was gonna say, if he was a CIA assassin killer, wouldn't he have dealt with the thugs right away? Yeah.

C (48:53)

Then the stakes. Yeah. Everything falls apart because to me, it's like if the guy is the next CIA, and then he breaks the wall to get the gun, and then how difficult is it gonna be for him to go kill like a junkie? You know, nothing makes. Makes much sense in that. In. In that new version. But I mean, I saw. I saw the movie and I mean, it's. It's a. It's kind of fun. You know, there's some fun stuff. And then. So I ended up with an executive producer credit. I wasn't. It's funny because I met with the director at some point to potentially be the editor of the movie, and that was kind of awkward. And that. That was also a very, very, very weird meeting with Chuck Russell. Very funny, but I mean, nice guy, you know, and they did their thing and now it's a different movie. And it felt weird because, you know, it's like you come up with like a baby, you know, and then it's like, you know, maybe it's not even born, that it's been raised by someone else, you know, that's kind of how it felt because I always feel it was a really strong concept originally, which I won't get into all the details, but it was a really, really good concept. And I may actually use that concept again because there's nothing of it that remains really in the final version of the movie. So they missed. There was like a few original elements that kind of disappeared.

B (50:19)

What was your experience of meeting, I think you said, had a dinner with Nick Cage? What was that like? How did you. What was your sense of him as a person?

C (50:27)

It was a very, very sweet man. I really like. I really liked him. You know, we had a. It was a bit of a surreal place. We met him in that resort in the desert hot spring. So it's a very odd place. I think that's where they shot the movie the Player. It's like this. This place where people get into, like a mud. Mud bath.

B (50:51)

Yeah. I've been to Hot Springs and see, we stayed at a resort similar to that. I don't know if it's the same one.

C (50:56)

Yeah, maybe that was the one. So it was odd. It was funny. It was a good. Good meeting, you know, it was. It was nice. Very friendly, I think. I mean, I think he's a really nice guy. He didn't seem. He didn't seem like the. The crazy guy that you. You would imagine at first when you see his movies. You know, he's a very. He's actually. I think he's a very normal guy, actually. I mean, normal. As normal as it can be when you're in this.

B (51:27)

Sure.

C (51:28)

You know.

B (51:28)

Did you. Do you think how would it have turned out if it had been kind of during. If it had turned out when it was in the Nick Cage phase?

C (51:36)

Well, I mean, the version I had in mind would have been awesome. Really. It would have been. It would have been this. Wish meets Falling Down. That's a movie I would want to see. That version that was made is like, yeah, I saw it, you know, but it's like, I don't really. I don't really care much about what's going on in the movie. I don't know what was experience watching it. So.

B (51:58)

Do you want to move?

C (52:00)

What did you think of the movie?

B (52:02)

Yeah, I mean, I think like you said, and I kind of picked up on that right away was, you know, some of the story doesn't make sense given, you know, the character's background. So sort of like, why is he acting this way at the very beginning? But I mean, I get what you're saying about the concept too. That, and I picked up on Michael Douglas falling down element. Maybe a, maybe a little bit of a Liam Neeson kind of, you know, revenge kind of story or something like that, or getting Mel Gibson payback kind of story. So, I mean, I, I like those kind of stories. I thought it wasn't absolutely terrible film, but I can see it's fun.

C (52:37)

I mean, I kind of enjoy what they did. It's just different, you know, it's just something.

B (52:41)

It's not what, it's not what you had.

C (52:43)

I would have never, I would have never written that script, you know, but I, you know, I think, I think I'm ultimately, it's, it's ironic and it's, it happens a lot in Hollywood is that I got the credit, like story by. And, and, and you know, there's pretty much nothing from the, from that was. That was unique, you know. Yeah, you just have the cliche that everybody have seen, but there was some uniqueness to it that. That's not there at all. And I thought that's what I was bringing. But then, but that's fine. I mean, you know, that's. Hollywood movies get made and that's. That's the most important part is that the movies get made, you know.

B (53:22)

Yeah. Well, so what about we. We watched Running with the Devil as well, and that was an interesting film, kind of an interesting twist at the end. I won't give it away, but you've got sort of a drug heist, organized crime story here with Nick Cage. You've got Laurence Fishburne and, and they kind of have this, you know, squaring off at the end and they're on a mountain and I won't go into all that, but I thought, I thought that was an. It was enjoyable. There was some good, good aspects of this film as well. And you were co producer on that, is that right?

C (54:00)

Yes. So the way it happened is. That's, that's another one of these credits that, that, that's, that doesn't necessarily reflect the way things happened. I was originally hired by the same producer as I am Rath, actually, which I, I, I mean, I say all that. I like, I like Michael. He's a, He's a interesting producer, you know, trying to make unique movies in his own Way. So I, I, I, I recognize that. And on that movie I met with the, with the director to originally edit the movie. I was the editor of the movie. I was hired as the editor of the movie. And, and I was also post supervising on top of that. So that means it was a little technical because the movie was shot in mostly in Colombia actually, and New, New Mexico and Colombia. And so there was a lot of coordination to, to organize everything. And because I arrived kind of the, the whole production was already kind of in place. I mean, they hadn't started shooting yet. But I, I got, yeah, I met with the, the, the director. We got along. Great guy, by the way, Jason Cabell. Great, great director. Who's, who's, who's ex Navy seal. And that's also very Hollywood.

B (55:38)

You know, like I was gonna say. Yeah, I detected probably he had heard or experienced some of these kinds of events or something that probably went into this. Yeah.

C (55:48)

And, and a lot of the story is actually based on real stuff that he witnessed.

B (55:52)

I figured.

C (55:55)

So it's all based on, on real stuff. And, but he's a, is, is a force of nature, this director, because he was offered many times as well to, to not direct the movie because he wrote the script, but he had, he just had co directed like a small, small, super small indie movie about veterans. So he didn't really have like, you know, strong credits to do a Nick Cage movie. And not only Nick Cage, but you have like Laurence Fishburne. What's her name? The, the actress who's in every single TV series right now.

B (56:35)

Yeah, I know you're talking about her name. Leslie. Yeah, yeah.

C (56:40)

And, uh, you have, uh, uh, uh, was it Adam? Adam Levy? I think. What's, is that his first name?

B (56:49)

Uh, yeah, yeah,

C (56:53)

you have, I mean, he got like an ensemble cast. That's kind of amazing. And, and he was able to go convince every single one of them, you know, and, and then he was able to stay on board as the director. But as the editor of the movie, I had a little, I had a more pressure in the way that I was more of a filmmaker technically than the, than the director. So, you know, my goal was really to, to, to, to gather all this footage and try to create this, this whole universe out of all these little vignettes put together, so choosing, you know, the music carefully. And I also worked on adding some maps to, to explain what's happening because there's a lot to, there's a lot happening in this movie. But it's a, I, I really, I think It's a, I think it's a, it's a great film. And same thing. The, the script was more complex. The, the I, I cut. So what happened is that I cut the movie and then at some point I was hired to work on another movie and then I had a hiatus on this other movie. So I had time to come technically finish Running with the Devil. But the, but the producer was not happy that I was going to start another movie. So he decided with, with the help of another guy who probably didn't like me too so much, they, they decided to hire another editor who literally stole my, my credit because I, I, at that point I cut like, you know, a better version of the movie actually. And then when I left the director, he kind of left the other editor to kind of take over and, and reach up the movie. And, and I think what, what happened and I think it's a mistake is that because of, of the nature of the movie, the way it follows the, the cocaine from the time it's made until it's, it gets in circulation and, and it shows how, yeah, it shows how it works.

B (59:03)

Right.

C (59:04)

It's a, it's a, it's a great film for that, you know, and to really understand how things work. But because of the nature of, of things, you don't have like one protagonist, you know, and the antagonist. You have like a bunch.

B (59:17)

Yeah, it's a lot of characters. Yeah, it was, I could imagine that was difficult to edit together.

C (59:23)

And because of that nature the movie is kind of slow paced because there's a lot going on. But every time you have to re. Engage within a mini story that's going to take you to the next story. So it was kind of, it felt kind of slow paced, but there's nothing you can do, you know, as you, you can cut the movie in, in 45 minutes and then you're still gonna feel kind of slow. Slow, ish. Because of the way it's built. And so that, and they thought because they felt the movie was probably too slow, so they decided to chop it, to chop it to make it shorter. But in the process I think they kind of lost a bit of, of the soul of the movie in, in the way I think there, there is a cut that we had before it was re. We chopped a little bit. You know, I mean they, they didn't change much, but they really shortened some moments. And I think that's you, you're missing a bit more of the point because you are spending a little more time with that family, with the kids at the beginning. How, how, how the whole.

B (60:30)

The farmer.

C (60:31)

Yeah. The father, the farmer. On how they, how you feel for you. You need a little more time to feel for all these people. So everything makes sense at the end of why this is happening because everybody's benefiting from it one way or another. Not, not all for bad reasons, you know.

B (60:49)

Right. Yeah, exactly. I think that complexity is what made it a little more interesting in terms of the moral issues. Now you also worked with Jean Claude Van Damme. So could you tell us a little bit about that or what, what that experience was like? I think everybody would love to hear a little bit about whatever you're able to tell.

C (61:07)

Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, Jean Claude is a, is a great guy and we had fun for a while. So that was a movie called Kill Em all. It's almost 10 years ago that it was shot in. And yeah, we, you know, it's, it's. What can I say? I mean, Jean Claude is very involved in editing. He loves the editing process of a movie. And then we had a little bit of a conflict at some point because the, the studio, Sony, they need a movie delivered and they need it quickly. And once Jean Claude gets involved in the whole editing process, you know, I mean, as an editor, I cut the movie. I don't like to have someone who tells me, hey, you need to cut here, you need to do this, to do that. So that's why it's. Everything with Jean Claude was like, oh, but I want you to cut here. And then, oh, go back a couple of frames. And then the, the. That's not the way I can work. So then we, we hired another editor to work with him on specific scenes for the action stuff mostly.

B (62:27)

What was your, your role in that was just as editor or wasn't he staying with you for a little while?

C (62:31)

I was, I was, I was editing, post supervising, you know, being very involved in the whole. And, and one more time, it was once again, it was a first time director as well. So then when it's a first time director, then you get a little more the, let's say the, the producers are relying a little more on you to, to deliver the movie because the director is his first movie as a director and so that means he's gonna miss some stuff. And then technically as the editor, you know better what needs to be done. You know, let's put it like that. And so, I mean, I had fun working on that movie with the Drew. We got along very well with, with the director and he trusted me and so that makes it faster. And then Jean Claude did his own cut of the movie and he wanted to, he wanted. His son was in the movie and he wanted his son to be more in the movie than he was than, than the part that he had. So then he decided to put cup to cut a lot of the other scenes out of the movie, so then his son would be a little more proportionally in the movie. So that's kind of what happened. But then the movie was too short, so that was one of the, one of the things we had to deal with. But I mean, it, it ended up. It ended up fine. You know, I mean, but the speed was we had to go quickly to deliver the movie because Sony, you know, the studios, they have like their, their slot. They know the movie has to be released at that date and so you need to deliver. And that was a lot of pressure. So the movie was like a little rushed in the. At the end, I think, but.

B (64:14)

And then you worked with Robert De Niro and Morgan Freeman on Comeback Trail, is that right?

C (64:20)

Yeah, Comeback Trail, so. And Morgan Freeman. Yeah, I worked with, on several. I worked on four movies with Morgan Freeman on the Comeback Trail. I wasn't on set on that one. I wasn't supposed to be involved in that movie originally. I just did the, the film the Poison Rose with, with George Gallo, the great, great guy, great friend. I love George. And that movie was kind of intense. And uh, and then he wanted to do Comeback Trail and for the post production side of it was big because there was a lot of VFX period movie. It was a big movie. And then the budget they had at the time to do posts and, and they wanted me to, to handle that. And I said, I don't think that's gonna work. And then I. And after Poison Rose, I kind of needed a break, so I didn't. I kind of passed on it and, and they made the move. They made the movie and then they, they went through a lot of budget issues and at the end of the day they, they came for. I think I, I ended up helping them finalizing the movie. But it was in the middle of COVID The finalizing of the movie was in 2020. And that's when things became very complicated and, and the budget and. And what happened is that the distributor. Because this movie just got officially released just like last year, I think in the US it was released in. On the foreign.

B (66:25)

Yeah, you cut out just for a second. You're back. Go ahead. So it was released in foreign markets.

C (66:29)

You said yeah, it was released in the foreign market and I, I helped them at the time finalizing sound sound mix all of that to. To. And actually I did a pass of editing on that version and I, I was kind of proud because I actually, how can I put that nicely? I kind of dewoke the movie.

B (66:53)

That's funny.

C (66:55)

Yeah, because. Because there was a lot of very woke elements in this movie that I, I wasn't too crazy about. And, And I suggested to the. Because walk is not funny. I think it's a comedy, you know, and I think all these woke stuff, I think it kind of kills the comedy. And oddly enough, I. My understanding is that De Niro was kind of pushing for the same changes as well. And so, so then I did that little pass removing like, you know, I don't know, at some point you have one of the characters that comes out as, as a lesbian out of nowhere like, like, what's going on here? And there was some other stuff, like several stuff in the movie like that. And I, I kind of trimmed under. The movie was a little more concise and I think it was. I think that version was great. And that. That's the. The version that was mostly released, I think. But also, and also there's a distributor that was taking over the movie for the US but that was kind of a Christian. That. That's a funny story actually. But that's. That was kind of a Christian distributor that raised money from. From Christians, I think. And, And. And the movie was starting the. The. With a scene with a fake trailer of a movie called like Killer Nuns or something. Something like that. And it's like a fake. A parody of nuns decapitating people or Left and right. So the movie was starting like that and the story was that the new. The. The character of the Nero in the movie was. Was, you know, suffering from the. The failure of that movie. And then any. It's kind of a.

B (68:56)

Right.

C (68:57)

Have you seen. Have you seen the movie?

B (68:59)

That's the one I've not gotten to yet. It's the next one I want to watch. But we've seen the rest.

C (69:04)

It. It was a fun. It's a remake actually of a small movie from the 80s. And it's a. It's a fun. It's a fun movie. I mean there was a. There was a lot of potential, but you know, maybe the movie was. Was made with, you know, that's one of these movies where you have a huge cast that cost a fortune and then at the end of the day there's not enough to really make the movie that you're supposed to make. I think the movie suffered maybe a little bit from that, but I mean there's a, there's a lot of funny stuff in it. It's a film on the about.

B (69:41)

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Now most recently you've done Vampire Project with Kevin Sorbo and yeah, you invited us to your, to your event. We got to meet Kevin Sorbo and that was a lot of fun and appreciate you putting esoteric Hollywood in the background of the, the scene there at the beginning. And I had a lot of fun with Vampire Project. So this is another one of your own babies that you gave birth to. Yeah, tell us a little bit about that and then we'll talk about where people can watch that and then what you have coming next.

C (70:12)

So, so we were at the stage where Hollywood Kovitz started to hit Hollywood. I got lucky because there was a lot of work in post production finishing, helping people finish their movies and, and George was able to do to, to sign another movie with Morgan Freeman and Ruby Rose that, that was made like in like one of the very, very, very few movies that actually got the green light to be shot during COVID before vaccinations and all of that. That was a, that was a not, not a lot of fun, a lot of pressure. And that, that movie, that was another Morgan Freeman B movie that said, you know, I mean, the movie was, has been destroyed by the reviews. And then after that my wife and I, my wife works with me. You, you met Jane, you know, and we put together that festival and she works with me also producing all of these movies. And, and then we decided to leave LA because LA during the time of COVID was so crazy that it was like unsustainable. So we left and ended up in Mississippi where we actually worked on a movie, another movie with Morgan Freeman here. That's kind of what took us here. It's kind of a by coincidence, but we, we like it and we sold we solo house in Los Angeles, had a bit of money, bought something here, beautiful place in nature, like you can see, and we enjoyed here. And, and then we said, okay, we have this project because during the, the early stages of, of of COVID a lot of people wanted to make small movies, very contained and then, and then that's what happened. That's how the Vampire project was was born. Like I had this producer I knew who works also with, with that same Michael Mendelssohn we were talking about. And, and they said, oh yeah, if you have an idea for a small movie that could be a shot. I was still in la. We were just in the process of getting to move, but we're still there. And he says, hey, if you have a small movie that could be made for, you know, little money, under the radar because no unions because of all the COVID rules, etc, you know, maybe Michael can, can finance that, you know, like pay, I don't know, 100, $200,000 or whatever to make a small movie. And then I just had written like another movie called Creepy Camper, that's an actual movie that I wrote. And. And then Michael says, no, I'm not too much interested in that one, but come, you know, let's talk. I have, I have some ideas maybe to make a vampire movie. And then he takes us to visit some properties of his that he just purchased in the Hollywood area, like abandoned properties. And he takes us, my wife and I. He says, yeah, bring, bring Jane. You, Jane, of course. And he says, yeah, bring Jane, then let's go see these houses because they could be a great place to, to shoot home or small horror movies. And so we go visit the places. It was kind of a bit of a surreal moment, you know, and then after the, that we visit this couple houses. He said, yeah, if you have an idea, like maybe a vampire movie. And then I start to, to think of a, of a project to write based on, on these houses and trying to, to come up with an idea. And I had that idea that it would be funny to shoot the story of a writer who's meeting with a producer who wants to make a movie.

B (74:29)

Yeah, so it gets super meta.

C (74:31)

Yeah, so. So yeah, and, and then that's why I wrote, I wrote this, the, the script of Vampire Project, which is exactly that. So, so basically a big chunk of what's happening in, in the Vampire Project is actually based on, on my experience working with Michael and, and another guy who works with him and how. And I had that idea come out of nowhere and then I started to write that and I wrote the entire script like in just a few days actually, like in five days. I wrote the first draft and it didn't change that much actually. And then, and then I submitted it to them and that was odd because that was kind of what we just, you know, went through. But then it was really a movie about the conflict between a producer who wants to make a movie on the, on the writer who wants to make another movie. And, and, and I actually kept on nourishing the script with the continuation of the relationship with the, with the, the, the. With the producer you have. They didn't, they didn't get it at all. I mean it's like to me there's a David lynch element to it.

B (75:47)

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I loved, I loved watching it. It was funny and it was, you know, some symbolism spiritual warfare going on. So I thought that was interesting.

C (75:57)

Yeah. And there was only. So it was also an opportunity to talk about the COVID and, and, and how it was affecting creative creation and how the woke mind as well, you know, like they always want to, you know, producers. I kind of mixed other experience with other producers, you know, who say hey, yeah, you need to put like a transgender in the movie. You need to do this.

B (76:22)

Yeah. Pokes fun at all.

C (76:26)

The, the allegory of the vampire started to make complete sense. You know, like what is the vampire in Hollywood? You know, the Hollywood vampire.

B (76:35)

Exactly. Hollywood vampires. Now the next project, and I'll have a link below by the way where people can watch that online if they want to click over and check it out. But you have a new project coming that I have printed out. I can't, I can't say what it is. What can you say about that? Anything.

C (76:52)

Yeah, I mean that's also, that's, that's a, that's a project I really love. It's really like one of these movies also that, that's kind of a very original and yet is very much based on all the jaw genre movies we like. So. And it's very rural. It all takes place in a small place like where, where we are in a church. Because in the meantime, you know, leaving, leaving la, which was like leaving the demons of LA was taking us closer to God. And, and then I really felt like. And also, and also this script is also like an offshoot of another script that was bigger, that was supposed to be made and that almost got made like 10 times. And every time there was something. So I wrote like a different version and a different version of a different version and that ended up being that. That new script that's called All Sinners. That's part of a, of a. Two movies now. All Sinners Go to Hell and it's a, it's a conceptual movie. The Diptych I would. I could call it, you know, because you have two, there's two pieces of, of the same movie because it used to be one movie and that had to split into two movies. But I think the, the, the, the, the new version is great, especially the first. The, the first one takes place in a. It's. It's kind of a hostage situation in a church. It's kind of a fun. A fun. I would say there's some Coin Brothers, a little bit like Fargo esque. Small.

B (78:46)

I got that vibe for sure. Yeah.

C (78:48)

But with also like a little more action driven with some Guy Richie elements, which is Al. Always fun. So it's definitely a fun movie. That's, that's very mainstream and yet there's always, you know, it's always complicated to, to. And it's, it's the, the beauty of it is that it's a pretty simple movie to make. So that's why, that's why now we're, we are aiming at making it like small. And, and, and the more I think about it, the more I'm trying to stay away from the whole Hollywood system, which I, I mean I know that system very well, especially the independent side of it where you know, the final. How the financing works and, and this. I think this is getting more and more and more difficult using the, you know, like in the B action genre, getting the names, all these names are getting too old now to be in action movies. You know, like you're talking about Van Damme, Dolph Lund. I mean I worked with Lundgren, with Steven Seagal, with, on movies with these guys. But now it's getting. They're all too old. Like the Expendables now. You know, they are the. So. So there's no one else now that has a name that's big enough.

B (80:12)

So.

C (80:12)

So we have another movie, another project with Scott Atkins for example, that's more on the mainstream side of it. But to me the passion is really to make relevant movies that have, that are meaningful, that talk to people, that, that makes them want to see it several times, that makes them cherish the movies, you know, like. And, and it's becoming rare because most of the movies that have the budget to try to make something well crafted nowadays, they're always very super woke. And it. Be and it. And then you see through that and then you start watching a movie like, okay, it's another one of those. And it's a little depressing. So that, that's, that's why we decided to create that banner films against the machines. And, and the experience of the vampire project was to actually, we said okay, we're, we're gonna fight. We're gonna do everything on this movie from, from writing to. To finishing to distribution. Because the. I think the model of distribution for independent movies is becoming really Rotten because you either do like a. Pretty much like a shitty B movie with an old guy who doesn't want to be there anymore and, and an audience that you know, that's getting tired of that too. So you need to make these movies overpay actors and so there's no money to make the movie and you end up making like a, a remake of a reboot of. Of Die Hard with, with, with 1 million bucks. So it's gonna be either that independent movies or the art house stuff like a 24 and all of that. But that's, that's for the happy few who are willing to push the propaganda and all of that. And in the in between, there's almost no room to make your own movies. So that's why we decided to create our own platform and say, okay, Vampire project. We have. The whole film is there now. And then we have a, we're bringing another catalog because we are not the only ones in that situation. So we're bringing other people like you know, we're partnering with this French guy who's very funny who, who made like several feature films that are also like very anti woke and very, very relevant movies. And so we're gonna put these movies there. We're gonna put movies that are more health conscious as well, some with uh, religious content. Like we have a beautiful movie coming out soon called Eternity. Eternity. It's a beautiful movie made by a Christian, but not only for Christians because that's, that's also another thing about Christian movies that are generally just made for Christians, which is kind of pointless in some way. So this is a beautiful movie. So, so we're already trying to do some to, to, to bring something different on, on All Sinners. It's also also like a great entertaining movie with great Christian values in it and yeah, excellent.

B (83:27)

I'm looking forward to, to it. There might be a small role for myself. You might see me in there and

C (83:35)

then when we met and, and that's funny how it all came together because in the Vampire Project, if you look carefully on the, on the nightstand of the, of the, the, the protagonists in, because you were thinking of oh, what would he read, what would be. And then, and then of course it starts with the, the Bible and then you build on that with lots of different people and, and, and my brilliant wife, you know, she, because she, she's, she suggested actually to, to, to put your book in the, in there. And I read it, I said of course, it makes total sense that it should be there. And so that's why Esoteric Hollywood is on. Esoteric Hollywood is a, is a must read. I think everyone, everybody should read. And we got tons of tons of copies as you know that we are. We. That was everybody of our friends. Christmas was, was a good one.

B (84:36)

I appreciate that. Well, I'm looking forward to also being WD Luker.

C (84:41)

So now you now knowing that, that you're also an actor and train and everything and I'm really looking forward to, to working with you for sure. Because that's how most of the movies I made. It's. It's always like that. You meet people and then you say okay, that, that's, that's cool. Let's make a movie together. You know, that's, that's. It's a, it's not just a one guy making a movie. It's a, it's, it's an ensemble. It's. It's meeting people. Yeah. It's providential what the movie is gonna be. You know, it's when the movie is finished that, that you know what it is.

B (85:18)

Excellent. Well, thank you so much Yvonne. Great discussion of the arts, especially the art of filmmaking. The. This is probably the most unique medium or form of art out there. So really appreciate all of your insights and your story. Glad that you are out there doing what you're doing, kind of being against the, the woke side of all this. So I'll have all the links below and anything else that you want to plug or remind us of or, or call our attention to. Maybe something that we didn't mention in your catalog.

C (85:50)

No, I mean if, I mean it's also a call. I think I'm taking another, just another second. I'm sorry, I've been. Been. I talk a lot. I know. You know, first, I love, I love, I love what I do and. But you know, there are, there are a lot of people out there who want to make movies and who have some things to, some things to tell. And, and my wife and I, we have like really an expertise on, on. On the entire business in the US mostly, but also we know, you know, Europe of course, but mostly the US Independent. We know, we really understand how it works and we can maybe help people because it's time to give back as well. And it's, we. It's good to help people who would want to make movies who are kind of like minded and these people, they must be really, really lost right now because the industry is changing like crazy and, and if we could become that anchor in that system that people can rely on and say hey, maybe we can, we can start something because we know, we understand, we've been through everything, you know, in. I mean everything. Not everything, of course, because there's so much. But, but there's. If we can help people who are really, really interested, you know, and, and we can really help and potentially work with people who have ideas or who have made movies that are made, but they don't know what to do with it because. And then maybe that platform can help with that. That's why we put together that festival to also bring people from other countries that would have the same limitations because the general. The entire industry is ultra left. And, and, and, and we need to, to.

B (87:48)

Yeah. While we need people that are making art that's not ultra left. That's the key point.

C (87:53)

Yeah, I think, I think it's super important that people can express themselves and now in the way, the way it is. There's no way, there's no way. There are things you cannot tell. And that's what we tried to do with the vampire project. It's a movie about that actually. It's a movie about how can you manage to tell your stories, you know, in the, in that context. So.

B (88:14)

Awesome. Yeah. So people, people can reach out to you also if they're interested in, in, you know, who want to make films and so forth that aren't.

C (88:21)

Yeah, yeah.

B (88:21)

You know, establishment.

C (88:23)

Yeah. Through Films against the Machines Dot com. They, they can send the, you know, email, all that.

B (88:28)

I'll have all that linked below. Awesome.

C (88:31)

Thank you. Thank you so much.

B (88:33)

Absolutely. Yvonne was a great conversation. Thank you so, so much for coming on and inviting us to your film festival. We had a lot of fun down

C (88:38)

there and we'll have the festival again where we are working on securing dates and the movie theater for, for this, for 2026. So you'll, you'll have to come again.

B (88:48)

Absolutely. Be honored to. And I, I forgot I gave a talk there too. I didn't remember that, but that was an awesome talk. Yeah, you gave.

C (88:55)

Yeah.

B (88:55)

You invited me to give a talk. We had a good time there and, and talking to Kevin Sorbo too. So thank you guys. If you're in the chat, be sure and leave some comments below. Be sure to like share, subscribe and check out Yvonne's film, especially Vampire Project, and I will see you next time.