Jay Dyer (3:57)

Thanks Greg. It's good to be back with you. It doesn't seem like a decade, but I remember the first interview we talked about sci fi illuminism and predictive programming in science fiction and it's good to be back 10 years later with the completion of the trilogy. And I appreciate you having me back, of course, man.

Greg Carlwood (4:14)

You know I got one and two right here and I believe they're both autographed. And then three I got on Kindle and I didn't think I was add like that, but something doesn't feel right about the two physical and then the digital. It's all up. But hopefully this is going to be a nice reunion. So you do spend a lot of the intro of this third installment talking about Dave McGowan and his book Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon, Laurel Canyon cover ups and the dark heart of the hippie dream. And a big aspect of that is Lookout Mountain Laboratory, which was one of the largest film production studios of its day run by the Air Force. I think Jared Leto now owns it. But you've actually been up there and have at least seen it from the outside in person, right?

Jay Dyer (5:01)

Yeah, we took a trip there when I think the second one came out sir Hollywood 2 in 2018 we took a road trip and we went to LA and we drove up there to check it out and you can kind of see from the road, you know, some of the old Air Force memorabilia that he I guess left kind of in the the grotto up there. But a lot of it you can't really see. There's a pretty High fence. But we weren't trying to, to creep on Jared Leto or see him using the bathroom or nothing. We were just checking it out. But yeah, it's up Wonderland Avenue. It's a really, there's a lot of lore behind that area with, with, you know, Mulholland Drive and all that kind of stuff. And Manson Shiloh Drive is all pretty, you know, closely connected to that same strip there. But yeah, this was the most prominent, you know, technologically speaking, theater and film operation of its time. So he had a lot of the major directors and producers and A list actors who had access to this high tech, you know, Air Force studio, you know, throughout the 40s, 50s, 60s period. And most people didn't know about this. Everybody knows about Warner Brothers or Paramount or whatever, the big studios, but they didn't know there was a secret high tech, you know, facility that actually was behind filming the Trinity site. The, you know, the different hydrogen bomb, atom bomb videos that you see, those were actually filmed and put together at Wonderland Studios. So Marilyn Monroe had access to it. Walt Disney had access to it. Jimmy Stewart, there's actually you can find archive footage of Jimmy Stewart there. So, you know, it's interesting because I think when I wrote either the first one, I think the second one, I just read Dave's book and I had most of the second book written and I realized that Weird scenes out of the canyon was so relevant that I had to go back and kind of add in some stuff into part two. So I stuck it again in part three just because I think it's such a powerful proof of kind of the overall thesis of this connection between A List actors, Hollywood and the Deep state. And so in the third one, I also stuck some stuff in there about previous A list actors that were leg, legit, legitimately spies, you know, like, like literal spies. So yeah, I felt like it rounded it out pretty good. But yeah, I'm glad you, I'm glad you looked at the third one. Did you get to that chapter about the Hollywood spies?

Greg Carlwood (7:20)

Yeah, yeah, I read it all. In fact, I got a question about someone I'm really surprised is considered a spy. But we'll get to that. I wanted to. So with this facility, you go on to say, is this where the atomic bomb footage was filmed in the so called moon landings? Which are good questions. I was going to ask you if we knew for sure anything that had actually been filmed there. But you're saying the Trinity tests. I mean, in the book you frame it as a question, but you seem pretty confident that they were filmed there now.

Jay Dyer (7:47)

Well, there was a website that I'm pretty. This was years ago when I found it. And I want to say it was like an archival government site, but I was. I've never been able to find that website again. And it detailed the history of the Trinity site footage. So that's probably why I framed it as a question, because I try to approach it from a somewhat scholarly approach. I don't like to, you know, source it unless I'm sure. And I have a reference for it, so that's probably why I framed it as a question. But I do recall there. There was a website that, that had a history of that, but I wasn't sure. But, yeah, I don't know about the. Exactly where the moon landing stuff was processed. But regardless, you can find archive footage which I think is still on YouTube, where you have Jimmy Stewart being filmed doing a lot of promo stuff for the FBI. And he was in a couple movies, one of which is the FBI story, which was just open Hollywood FBI propaganda. So, you know, at that time, it was seen as just part of patriotism. Right. To. To film this kind of stuff. I. I don't think they saw it as some. Something nefarious or conspiratorial. But yeah, we. We can confirm a lot of those things nowadays. But for example, in the. The National Archives have recently declassified certain actors and actresses who were known to be spies. So, you know, over time, a lot of this stuff gets vindicated. And I would say on the whole, most of the most, not always, but most of the time, the conspiracy theorists, as with most things, we end up being vindicated because it ends up eventually coming out.

Greg Carlwood (9:14)

Right, Right. So you also write in the intro how this one is different from the first two. Let people know, give them the elevator pitch. Why this third one exists or does differently than the first two?

Jay Dyer (9:27)

Well, the first one was centered around directors, and it was a very long essay style approach to different films. So there's like 60 or 70 pages of Kubrick. There's 60, 70 pages of Hitchcock and Spielberg. So it's kind of focused around directors. And I don't even remember. I think I just did that because I think back then, you know, 10 years ago, there was a lot of people analyzing Kubrick films online. It was a very popular thing to do. So I probably thought about that one. The next one I thought, well, I'll do a little bit different. So I organize it thematically with Hollywood and organized crime and Hollywood and spy agencies and Hollywood and terrorism propaganda that was A lot more prevalent back in 2017, although we still have quite a bit of that even today. But then I think with the third one, there were so many movies that I never got to shows that were really important, really packed with esoteric occult, symbology, you know, True Detective. I had so many people saying over the years, when are you gonna, you know, analyze some Christopher Nolan films? You know, you've done all these directors from 50 years ago. And you know, we. People don't really watch Hitchcock as much as they used to, or maybe, maybe even, you know, Spielberg as much as they used to. So what's a more contemporary director? Well, probably the most famous contemporary director is Christopher Nolan. So I thought, why not stick him in there? I had a lot of people saying, hey, when are you going to talk about, you know, superheroes? You know, that's a, that's dominated, you know, blockbusters for the last 20 years, has been these, these superhero films. So I know you've had, I think. What's his name? Christopher Knowles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've had him on talking about, you know, our gods wear spandex and all that. So I felt like that was just. It needed to be done. And Also, most of 1 and 2, I, when I wrote, when I put those in the book, they were already written. A lot of part three was not written. I would say about half of it is, is new. And also I took a new approach of putting more movies in. So rather than like 20 page essays on one movie, it's more so like three or four page essays on, on a lot more movies.

Greg Carlwood (11:30)

Yes, I did notice that. And some of those themes are super interesting. Let's jump to the spy thing because one of those people is Harry Houdini, which you say kind of came from weird scenes that somewhere in there, Dave McGowan exposed Harry Houdini's connection to Laurel Canyon role as a spy for Scotland Yard. I mean, I don't know if I've ever heard this. I don't remember that. I read the book a while back, but I don't remember that. What's this deal with Houdini being a spy? It seems like every household name has some kind of sketchy connection somewhere.

Jay Dyer (12:03)

Well, you know, the, the connection goes way back there. There's an older tradition of actors and actresses being used for other purposes. You know, actress and actresses, for example, used to be prostitutes a long time ago. So this idea of having multiple jobs for, for that role is, is not, it's not new. It's an old idea. But if you go back to like the British, you know, renaissance period. You had actors and actresses who did espionage work as well. So it's kind of a British tradition, you could say. But then Houdini, I think the sleight of hand techniques that he had that he could do, I think they already kind of saw that as something that could potentially be used in the espionage world. You know, for example, if you're, if you're a good lock picker, then you could probably get out of some, you know, sticky situation or something like that. You're also, if you're famous, I think they knew right away, like you're going to be having a lot more doors opened up to you than if you're just a normie, right, Just some rando dude. If you're famous, you're going to go be meeting perhaps other foreign leaders, dignitaries, other celebrities. So you become a very natural ally to the, you know, confidential informants by world. And I think they saw that with Houdini. I'm not a huge.

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True Crime Podcast Host (13:51)

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The case of the missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth motive. They're Reese's. What was I going to do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler. I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's suspense. Reese's,

Jay Dyer (14:21)

you know, historian of Houdini. I don't know a lot about his life other than what Dave McGowan's talked about, but I do have another book that talks about the history of the CIA using and studying stage magic and sleight of hand. So they've also brought in people like David Copperfield and you know, those kinds of high profile magicians to teach the CIA different techniques that could be used perhaps even in spycraft. So that's, that's actually been a long time connection as well. But it's not just the CIA. It actually goes way back, as you said, to, to houdini.

Greg Carlwood (14:54)

Well, Dave McGowan is a good guy to open the book, the intro with because, you know, he's got this thing where he shows how so many people, so many musicians in the 60s counterculture had parents that were military intellig agents are just in the milieu. Makes you wonder what's going on there. The Jim Morrison thing and obviously there's other examples. But when it becomes like 75% of the major acts of an entire genre, you gotta think the whole thing is in operation. So, you know, there's a parallel here to film and movies as well. So I think it's a great way to open it. If we were gonna go through just generally some of the spy list. So maybe Houdini's in there, Jimmy Stewart's in there. I think today we might say Ben Affleck is in there. Woody Harrelson's dad, I think was supposed to be some kind of assassin for intelligence. Yeah, exactly. Who else would you put there? Maybe people who are actually alive and active or are just whoever you got for the spy list. The dual use list.

Jay Dyer (15:57)

Right. Well, going back to the silver screen, the old, you know, the classic era of Hollywood. Josephine Baker, the dancer singer, she was involved in spying for the French Resistance, as was Katharine Hepburn's daughter, Audrey Hepburn, she spied for the. For the anti Nazi resistance. You had Marlene Dietrich, who many people thought was a German Nazi spy, but she was actually trying to be a spy for the oss and it was. It's unclear whether she ever actually was. But Cary Grant, he informed for the OSS on other people in Hollywood that might have supposedly been Nazi sympathizers like Errol Flynn. So people thought Errol Flynn might be a Nazi spy and so they asked Cary Grant to inform on him. Sterling Hayden, the famous A Lister, was an OSS spy and kind of a war hero. John Ford, the famous director, also made documentaries and won his award through the aid and help of the OSS. So that's the wartime predecessor to the CIA. So 1942-47 you have the OSS and that becomes the CIA in 1947 out of that original British intelligence created organization. And more recently, you know, you've had people like Nicholas, well, Ben Affleck openly working with the CIA to make several films and he's publicly put out, or at least there was FOIA requests for public memos talking about his movies being made in concert with the ca, particularly Argo. And you have other films like Zero Dark Thirty being made openly with CIA consultation and aid. Jennifer Garner also, again, close connection there to Ben Affleck, obviously, who worked with propaganda for the ca. So you know, whether or not she had some role as an operative, I don't know. But Claire Danes, you know, with her show Homeland and with Affleck and Matt Damon, those characters, they usually kind of have a pretty public relationship with the Agency. And then some people have a little more speculative ideas about people like George Clooney who's, you know, had worked with the CIA as well for a long time and film productions. But even beyond that, Clooney and Angelina Jolie are open members of the Council on Foreign Relations. So they actually go to CFR meetings, they particip, they're involved in, you know, United nations organization type stuff so that they're more openly, you know, affiliated and working with globalization at that level, perhaps even beyond just CIA type stuff. So. But yeah, it's, it's a very, I think now kind of well known thing. But you know, when we go back 10 years ago, even when I was researching this stuff or when I was looking at this stuff in grad school, like this was just seen to be totally crazy tinfoil hat stuff. But I saw a clip the other day where George Clooney was on one of the late night shows, maybe Jimmy Kimmel or something, and they were asking him about how he met his wife, Amal or whatever her name is. And he was like, yeah, well, you know, I was there with some agencies and she was helping to draft the Europe, the, the Egypt's new constitution for the Muslim Brotherhood. I'm like, hello. Like you're only doing that, you know, if you're working at some kind of high intelligence level. But yeah, that's the reality of the world that we live in is that these agencies and these supposed things that you would think are totally disconnected like Hollywood or even the NSA or the FBI. It's not just the CIA. There's FBI, there's the Mossad. All of these different agencies have a really close connection to Hollywood film production. For example. A lot of TV shows or movies that you think about that will say, portray the FBI in a really important light, like the X Files or something like that. Those can also be kind of soft forms of propaganda. Or you might have those agencies also, you know, making a deal to fund it, partially fund it or loan out or allow certain things to happen if the script portrays them, you know, in a positive way.

Greg Carlwood (20:05)

When you think about Ben Affleck and Argo and saying, well, he worked with intelligence, of course, you know, it's an intelligence related movie, but people don't think about the extent of that and the narrative control that goes into it and framing everything exactly how the CIA or FBI wants it framed. One that I worry about, not worry about really, but I. I wonder about is Leo DiCaprio, because, I mean, some of his movies relate to narrative control of certain things and biopics. And I guess recently what I think is so curious is I've seen not only a video clip of him when he was quite young, being kind of manhandled by a director casually on camera, but then there's also a photo I saw pop up where he's in like a giant bed at a Diddy party. And he looks young. I mean, maybe Leo always looked young, but he looks pretty young. And he's on this bed with these four dudes wearing white. It's like, man, maybe this is one of those things where you get passed around for a while and then if you can keep your mouth shut, you get to be a movie star.

Jay Dyer (21:14)

Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen the last several years more and more come out about that practice, that it's a lot more prevalent than we thought. So I wouldn't be surprised. I haven't really looked into Leo himself in terms of his background, you know, really in the fourth book or the third book. This was really the first time that I kind of went into the foray of certain actors themselves. I mean, we talked about a little bit maybe in the first and second one. But, you know, I brought up Cary Grant was one of the first people, for example, to do lsd. He was doing an LSD before any of the, you know, 60s people were. So. Yeah, so there's, you know, some kind of little nuggets like that. And I maybe mentioned some stuff with Julia Child, you know, being the. She was an OSO spy as well, being a famous TV chef. So there's some precedents for that kind of stuff. But, you know, this was really the only chapter, I think, in the. In the trilogy where I went into specific people and kind of their relationships. But another example will be Tom Cruise. You know, Tom Cruise has a long time connection, obviously to Scientology. But right after 9 11, there was some interesting news stories that came out in mainstream media about him forming an alliance with the CIA to help promote America's national security and make certain films, AKA I'm assuming it means the Mission Impossible series. Right. To sort of bolster the idea that we need this international Mission Force spy agency type thing going on because America's under a threat from international terror of course, that's run by the same elites that run our country. So it's like, you know, false dialectics. We know that, but people in 2001 didn't typically know that. So, you know, you've got a listers coming out with that kind of stuff. But when it comes to Leo and. And the PDF stuff, I wouldn't be surprised. You know, there was. I was watching all the interviews with. On MTV from the 90s, and even the MTV hosts, like Daisy Fuentes. There's this funny interview where she's totally trying to get with him. And he looks like. I mean, he might be. He might be of age. I'm not sure, but I mean, he looks like he's maybe 15 or 16. I don't know. I mean, I'm not accusing Daisy Fuentes of anything, but, like, she's tried, obviously, trying to get with him. Like, she's all over him. You know, I don't know if that was just his gravitas as a Mac Daddy or if, you know, maybe that was an industry, something understood in the industry, but I think with Diddy Epstein, all this kind of stuff, I wouldn't be surprised.

Greg Carlwood (23:33)

Yeah, to me, it's like, now Leo gets to be the biggest movie star. He pretty much stays out of drama, but everyone is, like, looking at this revolving door of young chicks that he's going through. And I think there's. There could be a thing where it's like, hey, don't touch that. Don't comment on it. He paid his dues. Now he gets to do his thing and we're all going to move on. But, you know, just speculating.

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True Crime Podcast Host (24:27)

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The case of the Missing Reeses. It was me at the store with my mouth motive. Um, they're Reese's. What was I gonna do, Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler I will. Wow, that had everything Reese's Suspense Reese's.

Greg Carlwood (24:57)

So in terms of the content that you cover, one that was pretty obscure that I really liked was this British series, Utopia, where a graphic novel writer reveals through codes in his work a real world conspiracy to release a bioweapon. Obviously it has a lot of parallels to Covid. And you cite the Dean Koontz novel the Eyes of Darkness that has been going around for its eerie details that seem like predictive programming for Covid. But I didn't know this. You say it was written in 1981, but revised eight years later to change the source of the viral outbreak. Outbreak in the book to Wuhan China. Man, that is so interesting that they actively changed it. I looked this up. It is true. It was originally the virus Gorky 400, and it was supposed to come from Gorky, Russia in the book, but then the name of the virus was changed to Wuhan 400. Coming from a military lab outside the city. I find this stuff so bizarre when these fictional works reflect real world events, almost always conspiratorial events. And I've never been super satisfied with the predictive programming hypothesis because if it's to prime the public to accept some big event without questioning it, well, I mean, there usually is an explanation that. I mean, that's the common explanation that I hear is that they're priming the public for accepting an event. But how many people actually see the media? You know, the same people who are affected by the event itself are not necessarily the same people who read the Dean Koontz novel. So I don't know if there's a deeper reason, like, I mean, a deeper reason than priming the public for this mirroring. I mean, I take it to a pretty esoteric place, like maybe they can manifest narratives by just putting it in the collective imagination of a thousand or five thousand or ten thousand people. But that was an interesting detail that I picked up from the book. But two of these things, both the Utopia series and the Dean Koontz novel, seem to predict Covid, the Dean Koontz novel, to a very specific level of detail. But what do you think is really behind these things that we see? Do you think predictive programming is the solve for it or do you think it's something more esoteric?

Jay Dyer (27:18)

Over time, I've gotten actually probably more skeptical than I used to be because, you know, a lot of cases, that's probably just coincidence. I'm not talking about the examples that you gave and I'm just thinking of other examples. There's, you know, things in movies that pop up that, you know, after a while you meet directors, you interview people, you talk to people, and a lot of stuff I think genuinely probably is just kind of happenstance, but there's many instances where it's not. And so you do have these odd questions as to, you know, that's really strange that that would be there explicitly like that or that it would be changed in that way. Now, in the case of Dean Koontz, one thing I would say is that his dad, or I should say it was the, the. The Dean Koon story that became Demon Seed, the movie, which I did. There's a video on my channel. I don't think I put it in. I might have put it in the book, I don't remember. But there, there's a old horror movie called Demon Sea which is pretty entertaining if you're looking for something fun to watch. But the, the story is based on, in part, Crowian ideas. So the director of that comes from a lineage of people who were actually pretty devoted to Crowley. The guy's dad, I forget the guy's name, but his dad was one of Crowley's biographers. So in Demon Sea, which is the Dean Koon story, they intentionally kind of placed in quite a bit of Crowley ideology, including the idea of creating a homunculus that could be a future kind of Antichrist figure. You know, and Dean Koontz does. We just watch, for example, the Jack Black, Dean Koontz movie that came out a few years ago. And there's quite a bit of pretty significant, you know, open reference to things like the keys of Solomon, Sigil, magic Kabbalah, all those things come up pretty explicitly in Dean Kunt's stories. So I think probably there's some degree of connection to those ideas, at least there could be more of a deep state connection. I don't know. I know with the case, the case of, say, Tom Clancy novels. Those are typically written in consultation with the CIA as well. And the reason that happens is that they want to put out those kinds of narratives. You know, if you go back to the 80s, a lot more people would. Would read than they do nowadays. So reading fiction stories was another good way to propagandize people. Just think of H.G. wells and H.D. wells was very open about his fiction being, you know, absolutely propaganda. He was the key propagandist of his day prior to Edward Bernays. So we know fiction has that power to do that. And I think that some of the weird details, it could be people having an inside laugh, it could be people who take Ritual magic or esoteric stuff seriously. There are directors who, who take that kind of stuff seriously. For example, Darren Aronofsky is a committed kabbalist. He's very much in the Kabbalah. More recently, Eggers, the guy that did the Witch and the New Dracula, you know, he always tells the actors to read about ritual magic before they do, before they come and do the film. So there are directors and people that do take this kind of stuff somewhat seriously at that esoteric level. But another thing I would say is that it's also a tradition in, for example, British spy fiction to write things that are real into the fiction stories. And the reason for that, just on a practical level, was that they always had the Official Secrets act in the uk, which meant that they couldn't openly talk about these things, but if they wrote it into fiction, they could get away with it and also make a living. And I know that from studying, not just the, you know, case of, like, say, Joseph Conrad. He wasn't a British intelligence operative, but he would when he was one of the first British spy novel writers. And in the Secret Agent, he wrote about things like false flags and anarchist groups being used as a kind of a controlled opposition. It's a really fascinating novel. And that kind of sets the stage for the rest of British fiction, like the James Bond stories, right, to put into the fiction real events. So I don't necessarily think that a lot of the details are there for perhaps ritual magic purposes in the case of, say, Ian Fleming, but Ian Fleming was absolutely used as Cold War propaganda. So that's one element to where you would put these real stories into fiction to propagandize. But a lot of the details. It's a great question, Greg. I don't. I don't even know exactly what the purpose of all the details, but, I mean, that was pretty crazy. The Wuhan one is pretty crazy. And I admit, yeah, Utopia. Utopia, like Argo is fascinating because it's one of the few films like, I think under the Silver Lake is another one. It's. I know it's a series, but that actually references the idea of predictive programming. Now, Argo isn't explicitly about that, but Argo is Ben Affleck working with the CIA to make a movie about when the CIA made a fake movie as a covert operation. So it's very meta. It's going, you know, multiple levels up. But with Utopia, you have reference to at least the British version of it, the predictive programming within comic books, which is telling a story about how the elite are really going to depopulate through releasing this thing and then having a vaccine that sterilizes people. So that was pretty wild to see that, you know, and it's almost like, are the British writers of this show, are they like reading some, you know, conspiracy literature? Dave McGowan or something? Maybe. And then did you ever see under the Silver Lake with Andrew Garfield?

Greg Carlwood (32:42)

No, but someone else did just reference that on the show not long ago. Donut. When we did our interview, he brought that up and then I said I hadn't seen it. And then a bunch of people commented, oh, you gotta check it out, you gotta see it. Apparently it's good.

Jay Dyer (32:54)

Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of become a conspiracy classic now because people have gotten, you know, we watched it when it came out, Tristan Haggard and I, and we did a decoding of it and my buddy Jim Bob and I were going to re decode that. We're going to revisit it next week and decode it again because it's one of those films that you have to watch many, many times. But Speaking of Dave McGowan, there's a specific character in the film that is kind of a Dave McGowan ish Laurel Canyon person who actually writes all the music. So the main character's on this kind of quest and he eventually meets this old guy who is responsible for all the pop music. So he, he writes it all. It's not in any of your favorite bands. It's all fake. I mean in the film is a little bit tongue in cheek. It's kind of satirical. It's a little bit funny too. But, but as, I mean it's got, you know, elites, billionaires, underground bunkers, cults. It's got it all. And it's, it's about predictive programming, so.

Greg Carlwood (33:49)

Damn.

Jay Dyer (33:49)

So yeah, there's a few, few films that reference it that are. That are kind of self aware in that way. But I think you're right to point to some really. It's really hard to explain away examples if you were a skeptic like the Dean CO1 or you know, Utopia.

Greg Carlwood (34:07)

Yeah. And I don't think you're a big Terence McKenna fan, but something he said that was interesting to me is that if he had to boil down everything to one thing, he would say the universe runs on narrative. And so to me I'm like, why would you. That's a, that's a unexpected thing to say. And then I think to, you know, the stars acting out the gods and Greek arenas and like, what what's really going on there? Are they channeling? Did they think they were channeling? Did that become acting? It's strange because, yeah, Covid, 9 11, the Titanic, all these things were predicted in media first. I mean, you know, the whole Trump lore thing with Ingersoll, Lockwood, that's been talked to death, but, you know, it just doesn't. It is conspiratorial events that I think is. It's why it's so interesting, because you don't have mundane storylines within film just manifesting out there. You know, dinosaurs didn't pop on the scene because Jurassic park came out. You know, it's like, it doesn't happen all the time. It's only in these highly suspect stories. Events where they want to control the narrative, and then the narrative is in fiction first. The most recent example is Charlie Kirk. I mean, you've seen the Snake Eyes thing, I'm sure. It's crazy that the details go down to the name, the date. Assassinated in public, shot in the neck. A guy named Tyler is the distraction, and then Tyler is the patsy for the shooting. I mean, it's down to the name. Charles Kirkland. Shot in the neck. What is that? It's. It is. It is crazy. Is that coincidence? I have a hard time with that one being coincident, especially when not fresh in my mind. But the director and the writer, I think the writer. I had done an interview on this right when it happened. And the guy I was interviewing was like, oh, that guy wrote it. That guy's birthday is 9 11. It's just. It never ends. But I'm sure you've looked at the Snake eyes thing a little bit.

Jay Dyer (36:07)

But, yeah, it's. You know, I. I'm familiar with the thesis. I didn't. I already had three written and done pretty much before any of that happened. So it was kind of too late to, you know, do anything. But what I can say about that is that that's a Brian De Palma film, of course. And there you go. Yeah. Brian De Palma has quite a bit of a. Of a pedigree of films that are pretty explicit in what they deal with in terms of mind control, conspiracy, deep state type stuff. You can go back to Dress to Kill, which was one of his earlier famous hits with Michael Caine. And you kind of have this idea of dissociation and. And trans stuff in kind of a predictive way, way before any of that was well known. That's like 1980, right? You have. He did Carlito's Way, which I don't think is that great of a movie. But it, it shows that he's pretty obviously familiar with like how the relationship between the police or the FBI and the mafia works, which ties into the organized or into the secret society, espionage world and occult stuff too. Because there is an overlap between organized crime and the occult. He did the Untouchables, which I don't think is very good. But again, I think he's. He's very familiar with organized crime carry that kind of stuff. But there's a. More specifically, he did Body Double, which is about. That's more of an occult esoteric film dealing with. How can I put this hardcore P R O N stuff and what that does to individuals and how they eventually kind of dissociate. So the guy in that dissociates from it. He did the original Mission Impossible, which of course we said with Tom Cruise. And you know that that has a CIA type connection. He did another film that I did include. The only reason I'm going through this Brian De Palma stuff is that I did do a section of Brian De Palma films in the third book. So, for example, the Fury, which is about kind of a CIA Montauk type project, Stranger Things type project where kids are recruited who have these potentialities or psychic abilities and they're put into this kind of secret, you know, CIA type program. They're groomed for being government operatives, etc. Then there's some really weird stuff in that movie. It was kind of his version of the Exorcist. So he, he. But he did Carry too, which is another kind of his attempt at the Exorcist. And then lastly he did a movie with John Lithgow that was pretty famous back in the day called Raising Cain. And the amazing thing about that one is that in the story, John Lithgow plays a person with multiple personalities. And it's eventually said that his dad worked for this secret government agency and was intentionally splitting through trauma based mind control, the son's, you know, mind into. Into having these controlled altars. Yeah, so that's a pretty good pedigree, I would say, for Brian De Palma having a connection to a lot of these or knowing quite a bit about these kinds of things.

Greg Carlwood (39:16)

And I did look him up just to confirm. But yes, it's. It's him. I was talking about his birthday. September 11, 1940. You know what else is interesting here?

Jay Dyer (39:27)

Oh, he did Black Dahlia too. I forgot the Black Dahlia is the first ritual murder. And then I put that in the first book, but I forgot he did that as well.

Greg Carlwood (39:36)

And I don't know if you've ever heard the names of his kids, but Piper De Palma, which is interesting because Pied Piper, mind control, that is like an old fairy tale basically about mind control and children. And then his other. His other daughter's name is Lolita.

Jay Dyer (39:53)

Oh, weird.

Greg Carlwood (39:54)

Isn't that gross? You would name your daughter Lolita. Wow, Freak.

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True Crime Podcast Host (40:30)

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The Case of the Missing Reeses. It was me at the store with my mouth motives. Um, they're Reese's. What was I gonna do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's, suspense, Reese's.

Greg Carlwood (41:00)

So another recent one you covered in the book, one that I did not watch, is the Netflix movie Leave the World Behind. I just heard so much about it and had so much spoiled that I was like I basically saw. Let me read from your book where you say in the 2024 Barack Obama produced Netflix film Leave the World Behind. It takes place in the Same universe as Mr. Robot, same director, where the hackers who end up discovering various various geopolitical plots collide with a separate group of two families who must manage to survive as a large scale hacking event takes down the US Internet. Stranded in a large Airbnb, these two families battle racial tensions and yet unknown forms of warfare that include sound and ELF weapons, biowarfare that releases a kind of chronic wasting disease as the deer are infected, and a battle over scarce medical resources as society breaks down, we see a giant oil tanker come to rest on a beach seemingly without a Captain Tesla shutting down and running haywire, and a large scale nuclear device detonated. In a very ominous and ambiguous scene, the Airbnb owner claims to work with high level defense contractors and that they had some knowledge of this coming event. Really interesting. Obviously it's provocative that Obama would be a producer of this kind of film. Interesting. You think we're Going to see this one manifest too.

Jay Dyer (42:25)

Yeah. It's funny you said that. I remember watching that and I was kind of. It's not that good. So you didn't really miss a whole lot. I mean, and then really the two films came out relatively close to each other that have a very similar theme. There was Civil War by Alex Garland.

Greg Carlwood (42:40)

Yes.

Jay Dyer (42:41)

And then this Obama produced propaganda film which basically as anybody who wants to have private property and kind of, you know, self defense. There's a Kevin Bacon character in the film who's like this prepper guy. Well, of course he's the villain. Right. Because he, he doesn't have a socialist attitude of giving everybody, you know, who survived whatever they want. He has guns. Oh my gosh, how dare he. So, yeah, so self defense and all that kind of stuff is demonized in the film. And that's not surprising again, if this is an Obama based film. But just think about that right there. We have a former president involved in the production of this propaganda movie about the collapse of the United States. And there's this, we don't know, you know, who's behind the collapse. It's this unknown, amorphous enemy. And the other thing that really stands out in the film that I think was fascinating was that there's a dialogue between some of the characters when all the, the attack, all this madness is going down. And one of the guys, I think it's the black guy, he, he at some level worked with defense contractors and with the government. And they're asking, they're like, do you know, like, who would have done this? Like, is there a conspiracy against America to do this? And his line is hilarious because he says, listen, I've been in all the big elite government meetings. Nobody's running anything. Nobody's in charge. We have this illusion that there's a elite or that the government runs things. Nobody runs anything. It's all just chaos.

Greg Carlwood (44:03)

Yeah.

Jay Dyer (44:04)

So I thought that was like just the most ridiculous propaganda. Right? Nobody's running anything. There are no. Even though right now Davos is happening, all the world elites are meeting at Davos right now. That doesn't exist. There's nobody who's wealthy and powerful. Everything's just kind of going haywire and we, we don't know. So it was kind of absurd propaganda at many, many levels. But you did have some weird things in there, like very anti Tesla. I mean, I'm not like a huge Tesla person, but I'm just saying, like they were intentionally putting in stuff. The targeting Elon Musk. Again, I'M fine to criticize Elon Musk, whatever, but it was a very political film is what I'm trying to say.

Greg Carlwood (44:42)

Sure.

Jay Dyer (44:43)

Well, maybe equally as propagandist and negative was Civil War. And Alex Garland has a history of making some, some actually some decent films, but also some very, very heavily propagandized film. You know, if you watch Civil War, it was a situation where America's collapsing from the sort of within. And it's because of this, you know, presidential figure played by Nick Offerman, who's kind of Trumpish. And then you have this idea that, well, we got to take him out because he's, he's going to ruin the country. We're going to have to start a new country, a more woke, more, you know, socialist, equalitarian country, because if we let people like, you know, white men or whatever run things, it's going to destroy the country. So Civil War was big time propaganda as well. And it makes sense though when you think about, okay, he made 28 days later, he made Ex Machina, he made Annihilation. And in Annihilation with Nellie Portman, you basically have references to these sort of Luciferian replacements that come and kind of take us over and we get cloned and, and this Luciferian aeon is kind of what pokes in from another dimension into our dimension. That's how I read the book or the movie at least. Then he did 28 years later, which I covered, which was totally Luciferian, 100% Luciferian film. And they did Men, which was a very feminist anti man horror film.

Greg Carlwood (46:09)

So Ex Machina. To Ex Machina, the machines are sexy.

Jay Dyer (46:13)

That was great. I thought that was what his, his really good film. A very good critique of AI of the Silicon Valley elites. You know, there's a sort of a Zuckerberg kind of character in there. That's the villain. So, so it's not, it's thought, you know, Ex Machin was good and I think, I mean the films are pretty good. 28 days later is good, but a lot of propaganda.

Greg Carlwood (46:33)

Yes. And I, I wanted to bring this up about Leave the World behind because I saw this post right as I was getting ready for this and I'm just going to share the screen because we can. Right there in the, in the opening poster for the movie. These are the actors in the film and their names are laid out to spell ball bail. You know, that's kind of interesting. And then during the opening scene of the movie, a mug.

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True Crime Podcast Host (47:31)

Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. They go perfectly with music, podcasts, and welcome back to the show. Even nature sounds. Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you.

Greg Carlwood (47:45)

Hello.

True Crime Podcast Host (47:46)

Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to. I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's. Ashley, go back to the nature sounds. Nice. Yeah, that's really nice.

Greg Carlwood (48:01)

It's the opening scene for people listening is on someone in bed. And they have nightstands on either side. And there's a mug on one night stand and two clocks. And the mug has a giant six on it. And each clock is showing a six as well. The one on the right is hidden. You can only see the digital six, the first number. The rest of the. The alarm clock is hidden. So it's like very specifically 666. That is not an accident. That's very interesting. So you got bail 666 and then this one was everywhere where the two kids are wearing the shirt Obey and NASA. It's just kind of goofy. And then this one is also interesting. But this must be a scene in the movie where they're looking at some monitoring equipment. When you flip the scene upside down, what's written on the screen is die. 666 so I just. These things are not exactly the same as writing narratives that come true. But why do you think this stuff is put in movies? What does it do to just say 666?

Jay Dyer (49:12)

Well, in these examples and this. These could be example legitimate. I don't know about the bale one, but the other one seemed pretty interesting. The. The mind does process those types of things in a kind of an instant that's been studied. And we do know that the mind is able to process that stuff even if it's not immediately in the conscious mind. Right. So it kind of goes into our storage or disk drive of. Of our subconscious. And so that stuff can be stored even if we don't immediately see it that way. And the director, as we said of Mr. Robot, which I remember I watched that very intently and paid a lot of attention to that. And that is full of this kind of stuff. So it's not, it's not out of the realm of possibility given the fact that the director of Mr. Robot did put a lot of that stuff in the series intentionally. And in that, in that story you have Rami Malek playing this sort of hacker guy who is dissociating. He's on these different drugs and he's part of this sort of international plot where they're going to a bunch of hackers and other people are trying to take down the US and there's these, these Chinese hackers and there's elements of it. I don't remember all the details to it, but point being is that there is a lot of attention to those types of details and weird symbology going on in Mr. Robot. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was put in there intentionally in this, in this film.

Greg Carlwood (50:32)

Very, very crazy. And some of these directors, they get their start in advertising and advertising. There was documentary about subliminal messages and advertising, which was the first time that I was woken up to those messages. Like putting sex in the ice cubes of a Coca Cola. That stuff's always been there. So if they come from advertising and get into film. Yeah, you're already used to putting the devil in the details, as they say.

Jay Dyer (51:00)

That's, that's an even more obvious example. I appreciate you thinking. I didn't even think about subliminals. And in fact, I don't even think I mentioned subliminals in all three of my books. Books, which, which, I mean, that, that is there. It does matter. It's. That's a form of semiotic, you know, meaning conveyance. It could be good or it could be nefarious. So you're absolutely right. I mean, there was experimentation, I think, with subliminal type stuff. For example, in the Exorcist where they did insert in one of the frames, you know, this sort of demonic image to see if it was sort of help hype up the fear when they played the film. And then the, the writer of that script, the blatty figure, was involved in psychological warfare for the CIA. So it's actually. This extra is actually a CIA script. And I included an essay in my book that somebody written about that. So, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely correct to, to point that out. And I don't think that's. I mean, we can go. You can go full schizo with that kind of stuff. Yeah, Every little thing in the movie is it. But it's not like that. But when you have these kinds of six, six, six, and that kind of stuff, I mean, I think a lot of that stuff's definitely intentional and. And probably speaking to our subconscious. Yeah.

Greg Carlwood (52:07)

Guys like Alex Fulton will go in and find the exact frames of films and be like, this is frame 666. And, oh, look, a devil on screen. He goes deep on Kubrick. And Kubrick is the kind of guy who would have paid attention to that meticulous detail. I would assume, if anyone did, is probably him, as opposed to, like, Michael Bay or someone. But another film you cover that I remember liking, but I think I always get it confused with Edge of Tomorrow is Oblivion and with Tom Cruise, and you do mention detail there that was intentionally seated. A purposeful placement of a biography of Wild Bill Donovan on the shelf at Jack's Country Hideout. The placement is not accidental, as Donovan is the master spy founder of the oss, the predecessor of the CIA. One immediately begins to connect this to the CIA slash, Air Force drone program, which is. Is projected to be run by AI computers in the near future and is actually termed Skynet. Funny they would call it that. But yes. Here's another movie where a guy who's kind of on the inside apparently has a biography of Wild Bill Donovan on his shelf. That's a detail they obviously put there on purpose.

Jay Dyer (53:21)

Yeah. Actually, the books in films and shows are usually pretty intentional now sometimes. And I always pay attention to the books that are there. For example, Jamie and I just did an analysis of. Of National Treasure, and we noticed that when Nick Cage goes into the shop to buy the fake copy of the Declaration of Independence, if you remember, when he's trying to steal it. Right?

Greg Carlwood (53:44)

Yeah.

Jay Dyer (53:45)

There's a book that's right by the counter that's very clearly visible in the shot. And it's the book, ironically, that Jamie had just read about the national monument and all the architecture of D.C. being esoteric. Right. It's not a conspiracy book. It's like a mainline scholarly architecture book in the history of D.C. and that it's, you know, laid out in a Masonic sort of Rosicrucian way. So that's actually mainstream, you know, history. It's not conspiracy stuff. But the. The book is there in the movie. And I was like, did you notice that, Jamie, that Nick Cage is right there, like, about to buy. He doesn't buy it, but he kind of looks at it. Right. It's like she's like, that's not my book. And I'm like, yes, it is. So we had to freeze it. I was like, yeah. See, she's like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe that is that book I just read. So, you know, that's obviously in the shot, I think on purpose, because the whole theme of the. Of the movie is the secret architecture of D.C. and going to these different places and decoding it, Right? So, yeah, I can think in a. In Rosemary's Baby, there's a very specific placement of. I think it's a Sammy Davis Jr biography, which is interesting because Sammy Davis Jr was, you know, remember the Church of Satan? The film is about a satanic cult. And then you see in one of the shots very clearly, right. You know, in the Shining, it's very. It's very subtle, but if you zoom in, most people didn't notice this, but Wendy at the very beginning is reading all these books on witchcraft. And you don't see that unless you pause the frame and zoom in, right When. When they're at the apartment when she's, you know, taking care of Danny when he's having the dreams. It shows the books that she's reading and it's all occult witchcraft stuff again, I think. I think that's intentional.

Greg Carlwood (55:27)

So Rosemary's Baby, I definitely have some questions for you on. Because I latched on to that section of the book and every little detail because the Sharon Tate Rosemary's Baby thing is just so weird. Another example that maybe reality manifested. But before we get there, I just wanted to ask you about this detail on Oblivion where the AI space station in the film is called Tet. And you write about that as being significant, tell people why it would be significant for the AI space station to be called Tet.

Jay Dyer (56:00)

Yeah, there's two films that have this similar theme, Equilibrium, which I don't. I didn't put that in. I might have mentioned in passing, but I didn't put it in the book. And I always get asked, how come you haven't done Equilibrium?

Greg Carlwood (56:11)

That's a deep cut. That's a deep cut. I loved Equilibrium.

Jay Dyer (56:14)

Yeah. I don't think it's a terrible movie. My only problem with Equilibrium is just simply that it's basically every dystopian story in one. So they just kind of copy and paste from, you know, brave new world, 1984, and then. And the Matrix, and they. They put it all into one.

Greg Carlwood (56:29)

I used to call it a poor man's Matrix, a low budget matrix.

Jay Dyer (56:32)

It's not a terrible movie. It's just kind of like, you know, other thing. It's derivative, I guess you could say. But one thing about equilibrium that relates to what you're asking about the tat is that in equilibrium, they explicitly refer to the control structure and the. The symbol as the tetragrammaton. And so it's the same thing going on, I think, in Oblivion, where it's tet. Tetragrammaton. That's the first part of it, right? Referencing Exodus 3, where God says, I am. That I am, which is a reference to the name Yahweh or the, you know, air. Asha air, which is the tetragrammaton or the. The. The name of God. So this is really important because we. Later, after I. I did a lot of those analyses, we went through a bunch of Tom Cruise films, and Jamie and I did a whole Tom Cruise podcast where we went through early stuff all the way up to, you know, all the Mission Impossible stuff, the Mummy, and all these different films. And what I've noticed is that there is an absolutely consistent pattern of the Gnostic storyline within Tom Cruise films. And it makes perfect sense because, you know, Tom Cruise is a very committed Scientologist, obviously. And L. Ron Hubbard, when he was crafting the Scientology story, it was because he had gone through the ranks of the oto, so he knew, you know, the whole mythology of the oto. Many, many years ago, I printed out an OTO reading list, which they make all their members read. I haven't read every book on it, but it's a lot of comparative religion. It's a lot of Gnostic texts. So basically, my thesis is that I think Tom Cruise. I don't know how serious he is about esoteric or cult stuff, but he's definitely in films that have a pretty consistent, you know, Gnostic.

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True Crime Podcast Host (58:55)

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The case of the missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth motive. Um, they're Reese's. What was I gonna do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler. I will. Wow. That had everything. Reese's suspense, Reese's

Jay Dyer (59:25)

storyline and pattern where it's Tom is the rebel angel or the one who's rebelling against the archon controller creator deity, the bumbling, evil creator deity. And Tom always plays a sort of Promethean figure who's going to set us free. That's exactly what happens in Edge of Tomorrow, and it's exactly what happens in Oblivion. He's fighting against and freeing us from this, you know, evil creator God.

Greg Carlwood (59:48)

Yes. And I didn't go back and listen, but I do recall that our last one kind of devolved into like, is Gnostic that bad? Because I'm not convinced. I know you are. And I was thinking more about that because it comes up in this book, too. And I wonder if. Well, sometimes it seems like the. The books you classify as Gnostic, they seem to me like they. They are, but they're also just like Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, where a person in a mundane situation has a call to action into going on an adventure into the underworld led by some wise figure like a Gandalf or a Dumbledore or an Obi Wan, and they do battle with the dragon in the abyss. They emerge changed and kind of return to their mundane condition, but a new version of themselves. And obviously Joseph Campbell stuff has been talked about forever. I mean, I was probably in high school when I learned about this and how this template really is almost all movies. Sometimes I'm like, you know, when Jay's talking about this being the seeding of Gnosticism in this film or that, it seems to me like maybe there's an argument that it's just the hero's journey. But is the hero's journey itself Gnostic? Is there something fishy about Joseph Campbell himself?

Jay Dyer (61:05)

Yeah, I mean, it's a nuanced, difficult question because the, you know, it really depends on what the journey is and who he's fighting and what's happening. So there are these archetypal patterns and stories, for sure. More recently on My Channel, we did some deep dives into Carl Jung, you know, archetypes, the collective unconscious. I mean, some of his actual books, not other people's assessments, but reading into the text. And last year, I got pretty deep into a couple Carl Young books to see exactly what he thought, what he taught. And the reason I bring Carl Young up is that Joseph Campbell's really just pulling from Carl Young. It's kind of watered down Carl Young. I Have another book. I've. I have two Campbell books. One of them though is he's very much a Freemason. Right. I forget what degree he got to. But in, in, in the big. There's a big coffee table book which I read many years ago, which is a Joseph Campbell symbology book and there's multiple chapters where he talks openly about Freemasonry. So my assessment is that he's, he seems to be a Freemason. So with that in mind, and then thinking about how it's very derivative from, from Carl Jung, I thought, well, I need to go read Carl Young. What we find in Carl Young is that he's also very, very explicit that most of what he's talking about is just agitated Gnosticism and Platonism. So you're correct that these patterns are there. They're definitely. Whether it's Virgil's Aeneid or, you know, whatever, the Odyssey, etc, there are these patterns. But again, it really matters as to what your worldview is in terms of what you're fighting and who you're fighting against. And in the Gnostic storyline, usually it's something like you are your own savior. You're your own salvation through empowering yourself through knowledge or technology or something like that. And that Gnosis, that secret knowledge, is what saves you. And a lot of the secret societies, I think, bait people with this kind of an idea of secret knowledge, special knowledge, oh, you're going to know the secret name of God. You're going to have this, you know, superpower that you alone know. And it really just plays, I think, on a lot of human vanity and pride. And a lot of times what ends up happening is that, that just to make it a little more down to earth and practical is like whether it's, you know, Alistair Crowley himself or whether it's Gerald Gardner and Wicca, which comes out of cranism, it's just really people wanting to touch butts like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not actually going to get any magical powers, but the, the guru or the magus, you know, he's going to get to go in my butt and have a good time and, but, and somehow I'm going to get magic out of this. So I mean, at one level it's just people wanted to get laid, but at another level there could be something demonic going on with some of these activities. And I understand not every Gnostic is into, you know, you know, weird sex or whatever. I'm not trying to say that, but again, I just think it really Depends on what the journey is and what, what you're, what, what the quest is. Because I mean, you could say, oh, Aleister Crowley was on a hero's journey and you know, he was, you know, graping and pillaging and doing what he was doing on his hero's quest. You see what I'm. So you could say there's a hero's quest, but like, okay, but what's, who's the hero and what are you fighting against? And if you're fighting against the one that happens to be like the true God, well then it's no longer a good story.

Greg Carlwood (64:20)

Fair enough. And I'm just curious, are there examples as we're coming to the end of the line here, are there examples of well executed recent films? We can even go back like a couple of decades, but recent films that, that are well executed, that actually contain messages that you would endorse not made by Mel Gibson.

Jay Dyer (64:44)

I figured you were going to throw that caveat in there. I was gonna say, I mean, I guess I like some of the Mel Gibson movies, but yeah, let's see. I think, you know, even, even films that I might disagree with or not necessarily be huge. I mean there's always some element probably that I could appreciate. Let's see, we did, we did a PODC where we, I mean, we covered National Treasure and I thought that was fun. You know, I mean, so there's a lot of films that are, that are, you know, enjoyable for other reasons. We did a podcast on Gone Girl and Eden. I don't know if you saw the movie Eden. I thought that was actually pretty good. Yeah, it has Jude Law, Sydney Sweeney. It's kind of an allegory for civilization and the problems that you encounter in civilization and you know, can you escape it? Can you set up a, you know, a utopian community, this kind of a thing. And so, you know, if you like Lord of the Flies or that kind of a story, Eden was, was a good. I mean, I wouldn't say it's fully Christian, but it had, it had a good message. I've actually gone back and re watched Harry Potter and I've kind of revised my. I initially thought it was just stupid, but there's actually a lot more going on in Harry Potter than I originally thought and it actually has a better message than I, than I remember. So maybe, maybe that.

Greg Carlwood (66:08)

See that just seems like hero's journey stuff to me. Like what would take, what would make Harry Potter? What separates it from the hero's journey template? Because it's got all the, the check marks in my mind.

Jay Dyer (66:20)

Well, like I said, like, I mean, again, I'm not against the hero's journey. It's just a question of like, who is hero and what's he doing and how does he, you know, what, what is the quest and who's he fighting? Like, that's the real issue, not, not just whether there's a hero's journey or not. Like, I mean, you could say Christianity is a hero's journey, right? Because in Christianity, Christ descends to the underworld, battles Satan, spiritually speaking, and then resurrects and goes into, you know, and ascends into heaven. So Christianity is a kind of a hero's, you know, Katabasa story as well. So.

Greg Carlwood (66:50)

But isn't part of your issue the fact that the thing that empowers them to defeat the bad guy is like sacred knowledge, which to me, like, that's Harry Potter learning magic.

Jay Dyer (67:00)

In the case of Harry Potter, it's a little bit different because, and I'm not just saying this because I have a Christian worldview. Like I've, I've actually gone back and reviewed all the Harry Potter series and there's more Christian themes and virtue themes than I, than I previously thought. So. And I'm not because I've never been a Harry Potter fan.

Greg Carlwood (67:20)

Yeah, me either.

Jay Dyer (67:21)

Really, I really, I've just, I've changed my mind reviewing it and somebody challenged me to do it. They said, hey, you should re. Watch it and, and think about, think about it in the vein of say, CS Lewis or you know, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. And I've always thought, well, she basically just rips off a bunch of stuff from Lord of the Rings, but there was actually quite a bit more Christian themes than I thought. That's a whole separate topic. Jamie and I are gonna, we're gonna, Jamie and I are gonna do a podcast on that so I can address that maybe in more detail.

Greg Carlwood (67:51)

But I just figured out I'd ask maybe, maybe nothing. I mean, Hollywood is. The whole point of your books in this conversation is Hollywood is not producing empowering, positive, Christian aligned content. That's not what they do.

Jay Dyer (68:07)

Well, it doesn't have to be. I'm not like, I'm not a puritan. Like, it doesn't have to be Christian aligned. I mean, like, I liked Weapons. Weapons is a, a horror satire.

Greg Carlwood (68:16)

I did not see Weapons, but I had the story spoiled for me and tell me if this is true. But the movie, basically at the end you find out that, that satanic Jews are corrupting all the white kids and all the suburban kids. Is it a satanic Jew thing?

Jay Dyer (68:33)

I didn't detect anything Jewish about it.

Greg Carlwood (68:36)

I gotta talk to my buddy because I took him at his word.

Jay Dyer (68:39)

I mean, I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have a. I wouldn't have a problem admitting if there was.

Greg Carlwood (68:43)

Does she have a big nose? Does the witch have a big nose? Maybe that's what he was getting at, that. Maybe it was more subtle, but he was like, I think that's the message is that kabbalistic Jews are corrupting the youth.

Jay Dyer (68:52)

I mean, I just took her as a grandma. I don't. There weren't there. I don't recall there being Jewish features, but I mean, I guess you could read it that way.

Greg Carlwood (69:02)

Maybe you take a look at that one again too now and it'll make it into esoteric Hollywood 3. What did you. I'm throwing a couple in here just at the end, but. Begonia. Did you see Begonia?

Jay Dyer (69:11)

I did. I liked it quite a bit.

Greg Carlwood (69:12)

Oh, man. Spoiler alert. Gosh, I hate to spoil movies, but. But I guess it's a flat earth film now. I don't, I don't. You're. I know you've said you're not a flat earth guy, but you're not. Not a flat earth guy, right? Are you. Are you Earth shape agnostic?

Jay Dyer (69:26)

So, yeah, I don't have any. I'm very skeptical about mainline science type stuff in general, so I don't really have any committed positions on it. I'm not convinced by the, the flat earth arguments. I'm well aware of them. I've heard them for many years.

Greg Carlwood (69:38)

But I didn't think Begonia would be a flat earth film, though.

Jay Dyer (69:41)

I mean, I know that with the model, this, the sequence that shows the little model. I thought that was kind of fun. But it's also, also comedy, right? It's a dark satire. I thought it was really funny. I enjoyed quite a bit all those parts. There are some fascinating conspiracy elements to it. We did do a podcast on Begonia, so yet again, another film that I thought was entertaining, but. Yeah, so, I mean, you know, there's a. Plenty. There's plenty of films that are still out there, you know, gems in the rough that you can find that are. That are fun and entertaining. I like Long Legs quite a bit. That was the Satanic ritual film that I thought was really, really well made. I usually like Nick Cage films, so

Greg Carlwood (70:15)

I tend to avoid the really dark stuff. But Zach Krager is the guy who made weapons and he was from Whitest Kids. You know, he made Ms. March with Trevor Moore, whose death I still find very suspicious.

Jay Dyer (70:27)

I do, too. And he did Barbarian, which was. They. What didn't have a lot of depth, but it was a fun horror movie.

Greg Carlwood (70:33)

And Zach Krager has a new Resident Evil movie coming out this year that might be interesting. That was going to be kind of the last thing I was going to ask you is, are there films in 2026 that you're looking forward to either genuinely looking forward to or just looking forward to unpacking? We got a Spielberg and a Nolan, a Spielberg disclosure film and a Nolan mythology film. I mean, those two I'm going to see. I don't. Wouldn't know if I'm super excited about it.

Jay Dyer (70:59)

Yeah, there's probably about 10 movies I noticed that look like they have some potential and for different reasons. They might not all be worth analyzing, but just, you know, for entertainment value, I think. What is. There's a zombie movie coming out that I think looks pretty. Pretty interesting in a. In a unique way. We Bury the Dead is. It's. It looks like zombies done in a more sophisticated way, not the standard stuff. I think maybe that movie with Rachel McAdams where she's stuck on an island. That one looks like it might be pretty. Pretty fun. We watched the rip with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, and I thought it was pretty good. Okay.

Greg Carlwood (71:40)

Okay.

Jay Dyer (71:40)

I have. You know, they're not my favorites, but that movie turned out pretty good. You know, ready or not, that's an interesting satanic cult horror thriller that's kind of a satire that might be. That's the sequel to the. To the first one that will be coming out. Silent Hill, interestingly enough, is full of kabbalistic ritual magic, which I didn't really realize that until I went and played the game and got kind of down that rabbit hole of getting into the lore of Silent Hill. So there's a new Silent Hill movie that might be worth analyzing. David. I think David Fincher has a new occult satanic serial killer movie coming out called Psycho Killer that might be worth analyzing. So, yeah, that's. That's what comes to mind.

Greg Carlwood (72:27)

I don't even watch dark horror stuff. I never really liked horror games or horror movies that much. I tend to, you know, like everything else. Did you analyze him.

Jay Dyer (72:40)

The Garland movie?

Greg Carlwood (72:41)

Yeah. The football movie where he gets initiated into this.

Jay Dyer (72:44)

Oh, no, no. I'm sorry. This is. So there's two. There's. I was thinking of men. Excuse me. Yes. Jamie and I did a podcast on him because did it suck?

Greg Carlwood (72:52)

I heard it sucks.

Jay Dyer (72:53)

Well, it, it's not a good movie but it, it all, it is all about like kind of satanic cult within sports stuff which is, I mean I'm not even aware of any movies about that. So.

Greg Carlwood (73:07)

I know I thought it was really an interesting subject matter and I thought the cinematography looked very.

Jay Dyer (73:12)

There is elements of that that are good. It's just this, the story ends up just kind of being corny.

Greg Carlwood (73:18)

That sucks. I mean you did the hard part. The hard part is getting all the style right. The easy part is just have a decent story, stick the landing.

Jay Dyer (73:27)

You would think, you would think you're

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True Crime Podcast Host (73:58)

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The Case of the Missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth motive. They're Reese's. What was I going to do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler. I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's Suspense Reese's.

Greg Carlwood (74:29)

Well, pleasure as always. Man. I really like reconnecting with some of the researchers I consider part of the old guard and what is now a very crowded space. But remind people of the many irons you have in the fire.

Jay Dyer (74:42)

Yeah, you can follow my work, as Greg said@Jasonalysis.com that's all the the past decade of archives of lectures, interviews, talks, as well as all the public material. My channel on YouTube is Jay Dyer. You can follow me on Twitter, Instagram, etc under Jay Dyer. You can find me writing for the Sam Hyde show. You can find me fourth hour, usually on Fridays of the Alex Jones show. And then we got a lot of live events coming up in 2026.

Greg Carlwood (75:10)

Damn, I didn't know you were such a regular. I didn't know you had a regular slot on the Alex Jones Show. That's interesting.

Jay Dyer (75:15)

Yeah, for about six years. I mean it's not every Friday, but I would say it's probably three out of four per month, usually.

Greg Carlwood (75:23)

Well, congrats on that. I think that's a feather in the cap, but, yeah, it's been a great.

Jay Dyer (75:27)

It's been a great time. We've. I've gotten used to it, kind of. Working with Alex is a lot of fun. He's a character.

Greg Carlwood (75:35)

So I guess you do it remotely.

Jay Dyer (75:38)

I mean, we've done a lot of stuff in studio, too, but usually remotely and.

Greg Carlwood (75:41)

Yeah, right on. Well, either way, loved it. Congrats on getting the trilogy done. You know, trilogies used to be enough for Hollywood, but now you gotta have a fourth. So I guess we'll talk in another six years.

Jay Dyer (75:52)

We'll see.

Greg Carlwood (75:53)

All right, take care, man.

Jay Dyer (75:54)

All right. Thanks, Greg.

Greg Carlwood (75:59)

The power of Christ compels you people. I always love a pop culture analysis show. They are easy books for me to read because I'm usually already familiar with the material. Although I was pretty surprised with esoteric Hollywood 3 that it wasn't more about the films that have come out since the last book. It was mostly older stuff, which is cool. I was just a little surprised by it. And I do think Jay is great at unpacking the contents of a film. He does it in an academic way. Yeah, we have ideological differences, but I'm very used to that at this point. Of course, I knew that going in, and I didn't plan to bring it up at all. But I guess it can't help but come into play when we get deep into the themes of certain films and what they might want to seed. And especially in the plus show, it came up. Some of the questions, I guess, just seemed to return to orthodoxy. But it's all good in those moments. I try to express that I don't think I'm as combative as I used to be. And I'm sure I sound like a broken record to listeners leaning on the same examples you usually. The COVID thing. But I don't talk to many of these guests outside of our actual interviews. So that's just me trying to explain myself or say we have more common ground than you might think. Because outside of my unusual job, I've got two kids, a boy and a girl. Me and my wife have pretty traditional dynamics in a nuclear family. We don't go to church. But outside of that six out of seven days a week, I think on paper we're pretty much living like a Christian family with traditional conservative values would live. Just focusing on the kids, trying to put attention into making them good people, getting high with every spare moment. I mean, it's the same life. I kid, but these days it's more contrarian to focus on the common ground, so I just try to do that. And Jay is good at what he does though, and I really don't see anyone else coming along to make conspiratorial film analysis their thing. He's got a good trilogy out now. We had Robert Sullivan doing cinema symbolism as well for a while, but I think there's room for a non religious, non freemasonic independent perspective if someone out there has the chops. Given how crowded the Internet is while also being dead, it feels like that Lane has a bit of room for a few more cars, I would say. Chris Knowles obviously does that and he does it well, but he does so much more that I just don't really consider it the same. Synchro mysticism tends to include film, but it's just different for me. For some reason though, he did just put out a great X Files book, going about as deep on the themes there as anyone could. Anyway, I'm just big on shared history too. You I'm always going to appreciate Jay just because of how small our little counterculture was when we first started. Now of course he's doing Alex Jones, he's doing the Sam Hyde stuff, he's co hosting a show with Jay Widener. He's a big shot. Pretty much doing us a favor now, right? But good times. I'm sure it makes for a little THC nostalgia for those who have been with us for a long time. And higher side news. Well, I've gotten myself into a bit of a pickle. World War three decided to kick off right when I have more shows recorded in the can than I can remember. Cause I'm gonna be outta town for two weeks in March. Me and the fam are going back to San Diego to get some much needed casual socialization with familiar faces in our lives. So as I do, I got paranoid and overbooked myself and now I'm sitting on too many interviews. And there are two schools of thought as to how I should handle it. Some people would preload them and drip feed them to you, schedule them for release to cover the gap. But the other school of thought is that I should just hammer you with four or five interviews right away in rapid succession, and then maybe, maybe I'll save one for when I get back in case I come back not optimized, but you get it, that I should just put them out as fast as I can. And I think because of the nature of this show being about current events and all that. It is better not to hold on to interviews any longer than I have to. Two come to mind in the ones I have that are going to have a lot more impact right now as opposed to two or three weeks from now. But you know, bombs are dropping, ayatollahs are getting whacked and the timeline is not exactly moving slowly. So I don't want them to be outdated. So I think I'm just going to hit you with three or four in the first 10 days and then let the big gap be what it is. You won't forget about me, right? But I think you will see comments saying like what happened to Greg? Is he all right? Blah blah blah. If you see that stuff, please put it to rest. Clearly not everyone listens to the wrap ups. But you do. So help me out there. I don't need any unnecessary drama. You know, none of us do. But expect a quick flood and then a dry second half of the month. I know some people will be very happy that I'm taking a break from solo shows because this is gonna be just a five interview month. Though I will say the majority seem to be pretty okay with the solo stuff. But let's talk about it as we are in the review portion of these here wrap ups in the Weeds episode two, the Epstein Edition. Kind of massaging what that format was supposed to be about. But the Epstein files are so big and vast that I thought it worked out. Again, these things bring in more subs and interviews. I can't complain. I gotta do them. They are a ton more work than the interviews. And the biggest criticism, ironically that I see is that a lot of people think it's just somebody rambling on about their news feed. Which isn't exactly wrong. But I am still putting a lot of thought and effort into curating it as I do with the guests and as I do with pulling out the finer points of their work that I try to bring into an interview. It's just a different type of curation really. But you can't please everyone. I will try to tweak the process and make it feel less like that maybe, but I clearly don't have to do too much cause we got ourselves a 4.8 baby. Really couldn't do much better. The plus people don't lie and 9 out of 10 comments seem to be basically atta boys. So I guess I'm a happy guy. I can't complain. As for the last interview we did Peter Cowan, the 49ers substation story, EMF research, history, sunlight's importance and all that good quantum biology stuff. I don't love that term by the way, but it is the term they use. It should just be light health or electromagnetic light health to cover the EMF as well as sunlight and blue light. But whatever. This isn't Mad Men. I am not their branding guy, unfortunately. But quantum biology, it's a field now. And this interview, I saw the rating jump all over the place. It was pretty low a couple times that I looked, but now it's a 4.7, so again, I can't complain. Plus people seem to be very happy right now. Epstein thing 4.8. Peter Cowan 4.7. Charles Fort book report. Another 4.8. That's a good streak. And two out of three of those are things I did myself. So what else is there to say? I know everyone is getting spun up about the Iran thing. I totally get it. I said in a comment somewhere in response to someone that look, there are unadvertised tragedies every day. And then sometimes we have advertised ones. And yes, collateral damage in war is always a tragedy. Hitting a fucking school where they now say they have 165 dead kids and a hundred injuries. It really is a level of evil and horrible that is at the Epstein level. He facilitated the abuse of kids, I guess largely one at a time, as opposed to dropping a bomb and hitting a school and ruining triple digit lives. But I do see it as almost the same. They're saying the school is adjacent to an Islamic Revolutionary Guard barracks. I don't care. You just can't make that kind of mistake. And you shouldn't be doing this anyway.

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True Crime Podcast Host (85:24)

Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans. The Case of the Missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth motive. Um, they're Reese's. What was I gonna do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler. I will. Wow, that had everything Reese's suspense, Reese's

Greg Carlwood (85:54)

regime change. We've seen this movie before, no pun intended. Now, all I can tell myself when I see that is that maybe this is some Wag the Dog to use another film. I want to believe it didn't really happen. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but in war you have to acknowledge that it's all about emotional manipulation with the goal of turning a population against its leaders and demanding it all stop. Or making it seem like if you want to present us as the liberators, it makes it look like everybody loves it and there's cheering in the streets. I don't know how much faith I can put in any of that stuff. It's all, all generated for a reason. So again, not saying that it didn't happen. I don't know. I'm just saying be aware that images that come along with information are handpicked for their emotional impact. Like this one here of the bloody backpack. Now for the listeners I am showing it, but I'm sure most people have seen it. Pink backpack, looks staged, set on some rubble, blood splattered all over it. And a little AI art, it seems to me of a girl praying on her knees with the head covering on and all that. I see the image and initially it gets me. But when I really look at it and I think about the exact staged images used in the film Wag the Dog in this exact kind of scenario, you know, it's like, like they're going through doing castings in the film for like the saddest, cutest kitten for the kid in the rubble to be holding and all that. It is a satire. So yeah, that takes it to a ridiculous degree. But still, I look at that image doesn't sit right with me. It seems a little too perfect, a little non organic. And it's not really about any one specific thing. Just be careful out there and preserve your energy. It might get really wild or this might be some of the same old Middle east stuff that's almost always going on. I know the Ayatollah thing is different. 30 years is a long time. But still, I mean, to some degree this is always going on. But you're going to hear about five THC interviews in a row, all recorded before any of this started. So maybe that's a nice little safe haven for you. You. Sorry, they should have consulted me. They didn't realize I had a trip planned, I guess before they dropped the bombs. Either way, thanks to Jay. Again, much love to all you listeners. Take care of you and yours. I've done my part. Your move. Esoteric. Hollywood wielders. 35 millimeter Magic makers and culture controllers. Your fucking move.

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Greg Carlwood (92:34)

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