An Insider’s View on Trans Violence: A Call for Understanding, Love, and Grace | The Jesus People Podcast Episode 36

Summary

Jesus People Podcast Episode 36

An Insider’s View on Trans Violence: A Call for Understanding, Love, and Grace

Host: Ryan Miller
Guest: Neeza Powers
Date: September 16, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This deeply personal and timely episode features returning guest Neeza Powers in an unfiltered, tender, and courageous conversation with host Ryan Miller. Against the backdrop of the recent assassination of Christian leader Charlie Kirk—reportedly by a trans-identified individual—Ryan and Neeza confront the profound grief, anger, confusion, and hope circulating among believers and the broader culture.

More than an analysis of events, this episode is a call: for Christians to move beyond knee-jerk anger, to respond to spiritual confusion and violence with the radical love, grace, and forgiveness of Jesus, and to thoughtfully pursue lost and hurting people—especially within the LGBTQ and trans communities. Neeza draws from his first-hand experience as a former trans-identifying woman who has recently transitioned to living as a Christian man, offering rare insight into both worlds.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Raw Beginnings and Honest Posture

• The episode opens with both host and guest acknowledging the emotional heaviness ("Just a few days after the Charlie Kirk assassination. That's heavy.") and their mutual wrestling with how to talk about grace and justice in this painful moment.
• They confess a prior recording didn’t feel authentic. “Let's just be ourselves... the Lord knows our hearts and we're going to speak from that place of love. No censoring.”
  — Neeza Powers, 02:06

2. Neeza’s Transformation & Background

• Neeza briefly recounts living as Nicole, a trans woman, for over a decade before a radical encounter with Jesus 95 days prior, which precipitated a dramatic change of identity and life.
  • “I lived as a woman named Nicole since I was 16... My whole life fell apart... I had this radical encounter with Christ in the middle of nowhere in the woods in Vermont... and when I finally decided to lay everything down, to follow him, to give up conscious sin, that he made me aware of... I met you. I met the family of Christ.”
    — Neeza Powers, 07:19–09:41

3. On Anger, Violence, and the Posture of Christ

• Ryan processes his anger—at the shooter, but also at right-wing Christian commentators whose responses fall short of Christ’s:
  • “There’s this, I feel this righteous anger, but it isn’t even necessarily toward the trans community. It's toward a lot of the conservative Christian... commentators that are like, ‘They're all demons...’ That's not the posture of Jesus. The posture of Jesus is: when you're persecuted, the gospel expands. When you're persecuted, you're blessed in the kingdom of God.”
    — Ryan Miller, 02:54
• The discussion stresses that Christ’s followers are called not to demonize groups, but to extend radical forgiveness—“revival won’t happen without forgiveness”
  — Ryan Miller, 18:10

4. On Spiritual Amnesia and the Difficulty of “Speaking for the Community”

• Neeza explains that having encountered Christ, it's “incredibly difficult, if not impossible” to return to his previous mindset, and thus, hard to “speak for the community”:
  • "I've been transformed... So looking back or remembering who I was is incredibly difficult, if not impossible... He has made it known that when I look back, those thoughts are not happy, and they're dissolving every day because that's not who I am now."
    — Neeza Powers, 04:47
• Neeza likens it to major physical transformation: trying to remember life before you changed—“that's not you anymore.”

5. Conversations on Church, Sin, and the Nature of Real Love

• Discussion about churches that “affirm and welcome” sin versus those that just welcome people as they are—with Ryan and Neeza both expressing the importance of welcoming everyone but not affirming all lifestyles.
• Ryan shares a story (20:58–26:34) of his old church: after raising red flags about the incoming pastor’s theology and wokeness, he was accused of sowing discord and left. The church now champions progressive views and, shockingly, a pastor celebrated Kirk’s death publicly—a moment Ryan calls “fundamentally demonic.”
  • "Celebrating the shedding of innocent blood is fundamentally demonic. Only demons celebrate the shedding of innocent blood, full stop."
    — Ryan Miller, 25:54

6. Evil, Grief, and Disillusionment from Within

• Neeza’s heartbreak witnessing trans acquaintances celebrate Charlie Kirk’s killing:
  • "It hit me... not everybody in those communities is evil. But there is evil in those communities. And they have, very clearly, separated themselves from the wheat.”
    — Neeza Powers, 31:22
• The pain: “Best friends... I would have done anything for them, too... and that hurts, man, because I would have done anything for them, too.”
• Both agree that some commentary—calling the left, or people in the trans community, “rats” and “demons”—deeply misses the heart of Christ (34:16–36:32).

7. Understanding the “Enemy’s Playbook”: The Trans Community’s Internal Life

• Neeza explains the “worship of self and desire of the flesh” as the prevailing spiritual orientation within the trans community—using the anecdote of the group dominating a restaurant despite the inconvenience to others.
  • “They're blind to the compassion of others. They were there for themselves... compassion is not welcome there.”
    — Neeza Powers, 39:35
• He describes profound love and camaraderie within trans circles; a love “more than (my) family, so I thought,” which later collides with the discovery of evil intent.

8. Violence, Perception, and the ‘Family’

• Neeza provides rare insight: for some trans shooters, violence is a misdirected attempt at sacrificial action for their “new family,” i.e., the community:
  • “The most selfless thing happening in the trans community right now are these senseless acts of violence... they're standing up for not just what they believe, but that family that loves them more than they've ever felt so far.” — Neeza Powers, 44:18
• Root cause: "They don't know the love of Him that died for them. They're confused about who they are... and they're missing the love of Christ."
  — Neeza Powers, 41:27
• Neeza and Ryan both agree: “the weapons of our warfare are love.”

9. How the Church Should Respond

• The practical call: open church doors and hearts to all; boldly share the gospel; show the transformation Jesus has done in your life. Don’t measure success by immediate transformation but by obedience to love.
  • “Call them home, welcome them into your churches, continue to preach the gospel... And allow them to come to the altar at their own time because they're not going to do it the first time.”
    — Neeza Powers, 46:37
• Neeza testifies: “If I meet a trans person in my church... I'm going to say, take a look at what happened to me. Look at how happy and joyful I am. This is not from any desire I got out of this world... that's how we rescue them: all love, all gospel-focused discussions.”
  — Neeza Powers, 47:41

10. Boldness Without Compromise—“Truth and Love”

• Ryan: “Truth without love is harsh. But love without truth is hollow. We cannot continue... speaking hollow love.”
• The challenge: If we only welcome but never communicate the call to repentance, “you are missing how Jesus encountered sinners.”
• Neeza: “Shouldn’t preachers of the gospel be confrontational... If you’re preaching the gospel and you’re not telling somebody to go and sin no more, are you preaching the gospel?”
  — Neeza Powers, 53:56

11. Hardened Hearts, Ready Hearts

• Ryan expands Jesus’ “person of peace” model: “If you continually try to proclaim the gospel to someone that doesn’t want to receive it... that’s not called evangelism. That’s called being annoying and unaffective.”
  — Ryan Miller, 54:42–56:59
• Neeza encourages: at Pride parades and in LGBTQ spaces, many are “ready”—thirsty for love, hungry for hope—beyond the loudest protesters.
  • “At those parades, there's a thousand lost people. And... we’re only seeing those ten that are hardened.”
    — Neeza Powers, 57:49

12. Kindness That Cuts Through Veils

• Neeza reflects on how persistent love could have broken through his own defenses:
  • “If you met me five or ten years ago at a Pride parade, and you came up to me and said, ‘You're loved. You're loved.’ I would say, ‘Get out of here.’... But you would have broken me because I was so hungry for so long... That’s what they need to hear, man. You would have broke me.”
    — Neeza Powers, 63:56

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On anger and forgiveness:

  "Forgiveness is the first step towards revival because you cannot move into the kingdom of God if you do not first forgive... Forgiveness is not saying what they did is fine. It's relinquishing my right to take vengeance against them, and I'm turning them over to the Lord."
  — Ryan Miller, 18:16

• On showing love to the trans community:

  “If there's one message from this podcast, it is that boldness and kindness can coexist, that we are called to understand that the way the kingdom of God functions is: it is the kindness of the Lord that leads people to repentance. Now go pray for boldness. Go find persons of peace whose hearts are ready... and then, if they kill us for it, praise God. Because where there's persecution, the gospel advances.”
  — Ryan Miller, 58:27

• A plea to the church:

  “Welcome all. Everybody should be able to walk in those doors. But when it comes to affirming conscious sin... I just want the welcoming to exist.”
  — Neeza Powers, 20:02

• On recognizing readiness for the gospel:

  “Don't keep talking to that person yelling at you. There's ten more people behind them that need to hear Christ loves you.”
  — Neeza Powers, 56:59

• On personal transformation and hope for others:

  “Go to a place where you will be unrecognizable in 95 days. Don’t go to a place that you’re going to be the same person after three months of walking with the Lord… Go to a place where you will die and be born again.”
  — Neeza Powers, 52:40

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Neeza’s testimony & transformation: 07:19–10:03
• Ryan’s church leadership story & criticisms of “woke” ideology: 20:58–26:34
• On anger, forgiveness, and ‘hollow love’: 18:03–20:02
• On trans community’s sense of family/violence: 39:35–44:18
• How to reach—without affirming or condemning: 46:37–51:13
• What would have reached Neeza before rebirth: 63:56

---

Final Reflections & Tone

This episode is marked by vulnerability, humility, and a Holy Spirit–driven resolve to love bravely and truthfully. The tone is direct yet compassionate, often pausing for self-reflection and prayer. The hosts reject both affirming error and lashing out in contempt, instead urging the church to become a “tractoring love” that draws the hurting and lost to Christ.

---

If You Remember Nothing Else

• Boldness and kindness must coexist; revival begins with forgiveness, not rage.
• You cannot “call out” your way to the heart; you must “call in” with Christ-like love.
• There are many desperate, hungry souls behind the loudest protestor—be willing to sow even where soil looks barren.
• The trans community, like all people, is deeply loved by Jesus and made in His image. The church’s place is to offer welcome, not affirmation of sin, and to trust transformation to the Spirit.
• Love boldly, communicate the truth gently, and be ready for God to do miracles—including in yourself.

Transcript

[A]

All right, welcome back to the Jesus People podcast. We got Neeza Powers back on the pod. I can hear the people just roaring right now. Just so happy to have you back.

[B]

I'm happy to be here, man. Really, really happy. And to see what our friendship has become since we talk. Glass has just been an ultimate blessing for me, dude.

[A]

Me too, man. Like, it was so cool to see the comments after our podcast. People in social media, videos on YouTube, just being like, yes, like, like, please, please be buddies. And, and we have been. That's been the coolest thing is, like, we're just, we're homies now. So for sure, you know, everyone's like.

[B]

You need to find a Christian man to disciple you. And I was like, dude, I have this really cool dude in Dallas and he has been the best disciple. I, I don't know what a good disciple looks like, but I feel like you've got me through a lot of things. You've encouraged me, you've. You've helped me grow in my faith and, and that's what it's all about. So, yeah, it's. It's been amazing, man.

[A]

Amen. Amen. Yeah, dude, it's been a blast. I think people don't realize there's so many cool things about you. Like, dude, okay, first of all, we just recorded, we just recorded a full episode.

[B]

There's so many people.

[A]

A full episode of this podcast. And then felt like, hey, I think we were kind of in our heads there.

[B]

Let's just take time.

[A]

Let's just be. Let's just be ourselves. And, you know, because we're, we're filming this only a few days after the Charlie Kirk assassination. And that's heavy. And that's, you know, it's affected both of us as it's affected people around the country, but at the same time, like, I don't know, we, you and I are just homies. And.

[B]

Dude, how many times did we pray before filming? Just, Just an hour ago during filming. I mean, and we. I couldn't get out of my head. And then you called me and you were like, let's just run it back. The Lord knows our hearts. And, and, and we're going to speak from that place of love. And no censoring. I mean, I feel like I was catching myself over every word. And it wasn't because the, the fear of the Lord. The fear of the Lord is there because I'm a God fearing Christian man. But this was something else that was weighing on me and I, I had no freedom to talk and I was just so scared about how it was gonna sound. Yeah, that's not me, dude.

[A]

And I, I felt it to myself. I think just the heaviness, I think the desire, you know, there was, it was another trans motivated shooter against a Christian. And I think, think there's this, I feel this righteous anger. Just. Anger isn't even necessarily towards, like the trans community. It's towards a lot of the, the conservative Christian. I wouldn't even say Christian. I would say conservative commentators that are like, they're all demons, you know, we need to fight the left. And I'm like, no, that, like, absolutely not. That's not the posture of Jesus. The posture of Jesus is when you're persecuted, the gospel expands. And when you're persecuted, you're blessed in the kingdom of God. And I'm not saying I'm not mad. If you've seen any of my recent social media videos, I'm mad. Question becomes, what do we do? Like, what do we do with that feeling, with that anger? Jesus flipped tables, but he did it in the church and he saw people he called Jesus, literally called a zealot that was a terrorist. Jesus went after prostitutes, he went after tax collectors, he went after the margins who did not agree with the Jewish establishment of that time, and he welcomed them and religious leaders that were operating in hypocrisy. And so I think we need to know, like, where, like, how do we, how do we address this? And I think this is such an important conversation because you are maybe the only voice in the world right now, to be honest, that I think can speak into the trans community. I, I even, I mean, you and I have chatted a little bit and it's been fascinating, but I just want to get your thoughts. And I think the whole goal of this podcast should be how can we love, like, how can we become love as Christians?

[B]

You know, it's weird when he's, when you tell me that I might be the only voice in the world to talk about this because I've been born again, man. I have been transformed by the love of Jesus Christ. So looking back or remembering who I was is incredibly difficult, if not impossible. And I think that's what was plaguing our conversation earlier, is I'm trying to position myself back where I was and I can't do it. Like, yeah, imagine you imagine you just got super buff and you've lost £100 or, you know, you're just, you've become the new Goggins and you're trying to remember yourself when you were when you were heavy and eating hot dogs every night and you know, just, just flabby. And it's hard to remember because that's not you anymore. Yes, that's not the best example because of how transformative my path has been from living as a woman to living as a Christian man now. But it's there because when you ask me and you tell me that I'm this inside into the community, I'm going to tell you no, because it's hard. And he has made it known that when I look back, those thoughts are not happy and they're actually dissolving every day because that's not who I am now. Now. And, and you know, so it's a, it's a hard thing to try and, and remember. It really is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, dude, I, I feel that. And the Bible is pretty clear too, to not look back and to not look back with longing. I do think just because we have some, some listeners and some viewers who probably don't know your story. Well, if people don't know, who needs a power? It's by this time in the Christian community. I've never seen someone take off on social media like you since probably Bryce Crawford and because maybe the foremost evangelist on the planet right now, particularly on social media, is probably you, dude. And could you. I know we don't, we're not, we're not going to stay back in your past because I think there's so many things we need to talk about, but because people have not. Some people maybe haven't heard your story. Give us like a, just a quick snapshot of what's happened in the last 90 days.

[B]

95, man. Give me some credit here.

[A]

95.

[B]

So I've, I've been a Christian for 95 days, but before that I didn't look like I do now. I didn't sound like I do now. Every part about me was different. I lived as a woman named Nicole since I was 16 years old for over 10 years of my life. And, and I thought that was my destiny, is to live my life here as. Pretending to be a woman. And I had this radical encounter with Christ in the middle of nowhere in the woods here in Vermont after sort of my whole life fell apart. I was chasing after a PhD in physics, trying to work every job after law school to fulfill my, my carnal desires of a bank account, you know, being flooded with money or like whatever I wanted out of this world. Every. I tried to do so many different things and I was just so unhappy. So I took this random job in the middle of nowhere, and I started seeking happiness. And the way that I did it was I got out into the wilderness, I started meditating, literally, like, with my hands like this, with Buddhist beads. And it was not Buddha who I encountered. It was Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. And when I finally decided to lay everything down, to follow him, to give up conscious sin that he made me aware of, that was a hard thing to do. Is I say conscious sin. I. I didn't think that living as Nicole was sinful. I didn't. That was not even in my vocabulary. I didn't walk around saying, that's sinful. Oh, you know, I'm. I'm gonna get drunk this weekend. I was living in sin that. Like, sin that I didn't come from a Christian background. So that was not in my. In my vocab at all. But when I had that radical encounter with Christ and he very much made aware that this was conscious sin, I was living in, and I decided to lay that down, I took to social media for some accountability. I think, number one is to say, look, I'm going to do this. I'm going to follow Christ. Is there anyone out there that thinks this is a bad idea? I think I wanted some encouragement to be like, no, don't do that. And it was the exact opposite. I met you. I met brothers and sisters. I met the family of Christ. But most of all, man, I strengthen my relationship with the Lord. And. And that's what I've been doing every day since.

[A]

Amen, dude. And now you, you've got a beautiful girlfriend, and you're walking Jesus every day, and you're gaining hundreds of thousands of followers on social media monthly. It is bananas. There is nobody on the planet that you should be following more than Niza Powers.

[B]

You.

[A]

You're a follower of Jesus because it's been so cool. Like, I didn't know that you had a degree in math and physics and you were a lawyer. Like, that there's. That's so cool, because you have a brilliant mind, and God has wired you in a really cool way to communicate his truth to a world right now that is very confused. You know, like, there's a lot of confusion around identity. And I think, you know, last podcast, I said that I think people follow you because you represent a sense of wonder. Like, you're. You're going to these churches and you're finding, like, oh, this is interesting what the Presbyterians do, and this is interesting what the Catholics do, and this is.

[B]

What the Baptists do.

[A]

And you're just, like, learning, and that's really cool. But the more I've been thinking about it, I think I've told you this before. I think people are following you because you represent a life laid on the altar. You gave up your life as Nicole. You crucified your fleshly desires. You sold everything to find the treasure hidden in the field. And you recognize that the treasure of Christ is more valuable than anything you could have had living as a woman, living in the lifestyle you were living in. And that is a picture of. Of picking up your cross that the world needs to see right now. And so I'm personally grateful for it. And I know millions of others are as well.

[B]

Yeah. It doesn't mean that it's easy, though. It does not mean that it's easy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I made a video just the other day saying, after Charlie Kirk shooting, my feed has been flooded with people buying Bibles saying they're going to church for the first time. And I. I think talking about it now, maybe I shouldn't have made this video because I said, I think it's amazing and I want to encourage you a hundred percent, but it's going to be hard because I don't want people to go to church for the first time after Charlie died and that's it, and say, look, I sat in his place this Sunday. I did it for Erica. I did it for the message that he wanted to get out there. I did it because he was a profound speaker of the gospel. So I sat in his place. And then you realize how hard this walk is and say, okay, well, I did my deed. I sat for him one time and just go back to living that way because I still have that thought every day saying, Look, I did 90 days with the Lord. That was great. I'm done. Because it's gotten really hard now. That's why I made that video. I said, if I could give you any piece of advice, is that it's going to be hard, but it's going to be worth it. And I can't tell you how worth it it is because my story's different. I was given a beautiful girlfriend, a supporting partner. I was given the love of Christ. That's the consistent package that we're all going to be delivered if you continue to die to yourself. But I don't know what else is worth it for an addict getting clean or somebody getting drunk every weekend, or somebody addicted to pornography, whatever their struggles are. I can't tell you what, what's waiting on the other End. I'm just speaking from myself of what I've received on the other end of it.

[A]

Right, right. Man. Well, it's powerful. And I think people are following you not because you're a former woman or woman in first, as you would say, but people are following you because you communicate the God very fresh way in a way that is filled with wonder and is filled with awe and is filled with discovery and is filled with truth. And I think God has given you the brilliant mind you have as someone who clearly has crushed it in academia and clearly has been successful in life. And then you leave that successful career to go be a ski instructor and the Lord encounters you. I think it's.

[B]

And, and you know what's important and you know what's interesting is that you talk about success in academia. Why do I consistently feel so dumb with this? The very first thing I ever read out of the Bible wasn't Genesis 1:1. It wasn't John 3:16. It was Proverbs 1:7 that said fear of the Lord is a beginning of wisdom.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he laid that on me. He said, you thought you were smart. You've got these degrees. Yeah, I can do differential mathematics. I can pass bar exams. But to know me, it's going to take more than this. It's going to take this. And I've never used this before. I never used this. The Lord laid it on me that you're not as smart as you think. And that's been the most humbling thing to get through is because I was somebody that was considered intelligent in earthly things. So I just look up to Christians that are older than 95 days, number one. But I am absolutely fascinated when I walk into churches and when I speak with Christians because living, living for the Lord is. There's so much wisdom out there. And I think that's why maybe the death of Charlie is so hard, because he had so much wisdom to be such a God fearing man. He was communicating that wisdom better than maybe anybody of our time. Right. Like to those age groups. So we're missing that wisdom. Yeah, I'm sure missing that. That wisdom for sure.

[A]

100. Yeah. I've had. And I'm sure you've probably seen this in your feed too. Like so many people are like, you're next, Ryan. Like the calling. Go to college campuses, join Turning Point. You're the next Charlie. And I think a lot of people probably say that because they think I look like him, which I get. I get two pe, I get two comparisons. I get Charlie Kirk and I Get Tebow. And I'm like, I much prefer Tebow.

[B]

But, you know, now, I've told you Tebow before.

[A]

Let's go, dude. Yes. Thank you. Keep it rolling. I like that one more. But I'm honored by. But I think that what just happened is a million Charlie Kirks have just awoken, and I'm getting texts. I'm literally getting blown up right now. I need to probably turn my phone off. But I'm getting blown up with kids from high school. I'm getting blown up from youth ministry, where I was a youth pastor years ago. And they're like, I'm ready. I'm ready to turn my life around. And so I think he's waking up, but the Lord's waking up a million more Charlie Kirks. But he's also waking up people who've been sleeping, who've been fully sleeping, who have just been, like, punting on their faith. And that. That legacy is one Kirk. If you're part of the Kirk family, like, well done, good and faithful servant, you just sparked revival. And I think that's what's happening right now.

[B]

Amen. And you said something on a video the other day, that revival won't happen without what?

[A]

Like, yes, revival won't happen without forgiveness.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Forgiveness is the first step towards revival because you cannot move into the kingdom of God if you do not first forgive. And I think so many Christians are angry, and we're seeing so many Christian and conservative voices out there that are demonizing. Like, you know, you and I were talking the other day about a certain political commentator who's calling them rats, who's calling them demonstration. And when I say them, what I mean by that are liberals. I mean people who would. Who would cheer on Charlie Kirk's death. And I think until we get to the point where we can forgive the shooter, we can forgive the people on social media, and we can say, and what is forgiveness? Forgiveness is not saying that what they're doing is fine. Now. Forgiveness is saying, I am relinquishing the weight of my unforgiveness and giving it to Jesus. I am turning over that unforgiveness to the Lord. I'm relinquishing my right to take vengeance against them, and I'm turning them over to the Lord who says, vengeance is mine. Now, justice still demands a response. But what you're saying when you forgive is you're saying, that's no longer my concern. Justice is no longer my concern. You deliver them over to Jesus and you say, now I move in Love and truth, Truth and love. Because truth without love is harsh. But love without truth is hollow and we cannot continue. There's so many people that have just been speaking hollow love. They've just been, they've been trying to, to, to meet people where their feelings are at instead of saying what is the truth of the gospel? The Bible told us this, that the gospel will divide families, it'll divide people because it tells people they're wrong. It tells you that the way you're living is not okay.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and in my journey of churches, I've seen the affirming and welcoming of the bunch, but I just want the welcoming to exist. Welcome all. Everybody should be able to walk in those doors. But when it comes to affirming conscious sin, affirming the lifestyles that their living. Why, like that's a question to you. Why are some churches saying that it's okay? Are they that desperate for a congregation or are they influenced by, by something else?

[A]

Did you see the video I just made about four hours ago?

[B]

I did, yeah. Did they. Them the church website? Yeah.

[A]

So I'll give more of the full story here and then I'll kind of come back to that question. So, okay. The church I was on staff with, the lead pastor left, which created a void and we needed to go hire a new pastor. So they did a full, you know, hiring process and they landed on their final candidate. And, you know, he would sit down with all the staff and have a conversation like, hey, I'm coming in to be the pastor. Let's, let's meet and let's talk about your ministry. I think the Lord planted some red flags in that conversation because he started saying some things where I'm just like, that doesn't, that doesn't sit right with me. There were some woke ideology that was, he was speaking and he was saying things like that. Just like, maybe they could pass like if you said them like once. But he kept repeating them to the point where I'm like, dude, what's an example? Okay, an example would be he, he would say, he would say, like, okay, well, you know, we're coming into pastor this thing. And he'd be talking about him and his wife preaching together. Now, again, I'm not speaking about women preachers right here. That can be a whole different podcast. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying there was a mismatch in the expectations of what the elders knew and what they were planning. And even some things like, you know, would you, would you officiate A gay wedding.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he just wouldn't answer the question. And again, I wasn't like, hammering with questions. This would come up in conversation, and he just wouldn't answer the question. And I'd be like, how. How do you not have a quick answer for that? And so I brought this to the elders and I said, this is what he's saying. Literally, he just said it. And they disciplined me. And they said, you're sowing discord. And basically, like, you need to stay out of this. Like, you are now someone that's causing, you know, disunity in. In the church right now. You're not rowing in the same direction. And I dipped. I'm like, I'm out. I'm like, I'm done. And I left the church.

[B]

And growing in the same direction. I. I heard this quote that if you're. If you're not feeling hiccups in your walk with the Christ and you're walking the same way with the devil, like, growing in the same direction, man. I mean, it. It doesn't sound like they were bringing people to strengthen their faith. It really doesn't.

[A]

Weird. The whole thing was weird. So I dipped. I got out of there. Well, eventually what happened was I started getting calls from those same elders that told me off. And they would say, ryan, we're sorry. We're now seeing some of this stuff and we should have listened to you. And there was just bad leadership. Just bad, flat out bad leadership in that church. But it was Bible believing. It was like a legit theology, sound theology church. And now this church, I just found out today they have. They're hiring gay people on staff. They. They have, you know, they, Them, theirs in their church bio. Like, the church is identifying as they them. Like, what craziness. And so I. I made a video basically sharing, like, yeah, this is. This has been my experience because now this girl who's. Who took over my position as the youth pastor put out a video doing gun hands, like, pew, pew, pew, and basically saying, you reap what you sow, you reap what you sew on the day Charlie Kirk was killed, or. Or. I don't know exactly when it was made, but it was about Charlie Kirk. And so if you have someone that is celebrating murder that's fundamentally demonic, only demons celebrate the shedding of innocent blood, full stop. And so I made a video. Well, here's what I didn't say in the video. I called him yesterday. I called the lead pastor because I think the biblical model is, you go right to the person and then you share, you know, with people to warn them. And so I called him, and I, I. He didn't pick up. I don't think he probably wanted to pick up my phone call. And I left a message, a very kind message. I wasn't yelling. I wasn't mad. I just basically said, hey, like, repent. Like, this is wrong. I've seen the direction this church is going, and it's wrong, and it makes me sad, and I grieve for you. I'm your brother, and I need to call you to repentance. And if you don't, I said, hey, listen, I'm not. This isn't a threat. Like, I'm just letting you know to make this video. And if you choose to repent, like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put out the video. Basically, like, showing what's happened to the church, because that's pretty gnarly to have a.

[B]

And it was the, The Charlie Kirk video that really set you off? Not the pronouns in the bio, not the officiating gay weddings. None of that. Okay?

[A]

None of that. None of that. I've been silent because that's all in the past. I've known that stuff. What set me off was having a pastor doing gun fingers, pew, pew, pew, and then saying, you reap what you sow. Quoting scripture is fundamentally demonic when you're talking about murder. Satan did that. He. He said, jesus, throw yourself off this ledge. The angels will. Will. He will guard his. Or command his angels concerning you, that you. You don't hit your foot on a stone. So basically, like, when you twist the scriptures to the most demonic thing in the world, which is the shedding of innocent blood, that's fundamentally demonic. It's Satanic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you have a pastor that is doing that publicly, proclaiming Satanism, publicly, which is the shedding of innocent blood, and you do not remove that pastor from your church, there's something wrong. And, and that they have not. They've refused to remove the pastor, at least to my, to my understanding. So anyway, so that's the, that's the backstory there on that. But we're. We're seeing. I believe we're seeing the separation. Jesus says in the last days, he's going to separate the wheat from the weeds. For all of history, the wheat and the weeds have grown together, and the wheat signify the children of God. The weeds signified the. The children of darkness. And they've been growing together throughout history. He says, in the last days, there will come a day he's going to separate them. He's going to show them. He's going to show the whole world that their works are fundamentally dark and the light is going to shine brighter than the expanse of the stars. That's what he says. We're seeing that the death of Charlie Kirk has just exposed the wheat in the weeds. It is showing the light to be very light and the darkness to be very dark. When you are celebrating murder, you are fundamentally operating under the spirit of the power of the demonic realm, full stop. And they're doing it in churches, and they did it in my church, which is why I spoke out. So that's what fired me up is like, okay, at this point, when you're doing it in the name of Jesus, I put you on blast. Because here's the deal. A lot of people that are listening to this and they hear me being fired up. I'm not fired up against those outside the church. I'm fired up at those in our own or who are claiming to be in our own family. Jesus got angry and flipped tables in the temple. He did not go to the prostitutes. He did not find the woman at the well and yell at her for her sin. He met her with grace and kindness. So this is where I think the church is missing. It is in the wake or in the aftermath of the death of Charlie Kirk, who was assassinated. There's anger towards the left. There's anger towards the trans community. There's anger towards the people who are celebrating on TikTok. And I just want to say that's not biblical. It's biblical to be angry. The Bible says, be angry and do not sin. And you are allowed to flip tables when it's in your house. When it's in the family, what's in the body of Christ, neighbor's house. And I start yelling at their kids for not doing dishes if they're playing on their top or whatever. I guess, yeah. Neither is it like our generation, if they're playing on their phone and they're not doing the dishes, If I walk into that door and I walk into the kitchen, do the dishes, your mom's been working all day. They'd look at me like I'm freaking Looney Tunes because I'm not in their family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if I'm holding people outside of my family, the rest of the world is like, guys, you look really silly when you're yelling at us about your morality because we're not in your family. But when it's happening in the church is when you go Ham when you flip tables. And so that's why I felt like I needed to respond. It's not out of anger that they have pronouns in their bio. It's that there's a pastor who is celebrating the shedding of innocent blood. So I decided to go flip some tables. And I made a video after going first to my brother and giving him time to respond, and he didn't respond. So I flipped some tables.

[B]

Yeah. And I think she would tell you that he wasn't innocent. He was spewing hate speech. But we know that's not right. We know that he was. He was speaking things that they hated. So I think something really changed for me that day. Speaking about people celebrating on social media. I went to school. I had people I looked up to in that community that I left that were posting celebratory Instagram stories and TikToks. And something really changed for me that day because I never. I never. And hearing your explanation about the celebrating of shedding of innocent blood is demonic. It makes sense, because he availed to me that this was pure evil. The celebrators were pure evil. And I never looked at them in the way they lived their life and the trans identity or any of the LGBT lifestyle. And I never looked at them as harboring evil until I saw those posts. And then. And then it just. It hit me. I said, not everybody in those communities is evil.

[A]

No, but.

[B]

But. But there is evil in those communities. And they have very clearly, like you, like you said, separated themselves from the. From that wheat. And I'm recognizing it. And I'm recognizing it very clearly now.

[A]

As someone who was in the trans community less than 100 days ago.

[B]

Yes. Yes. Because I had a hard time, even after detransitioning, even after living solely for Christ, looking back at the friends I had in that community, even though they disowned me right away as soon as I said, hey, I'm no longer Nicole. I didn't even. I spoke no ill words about their lifestyle. I said, I'm no longer Nicole. Okay, bye. You're no longer fighting the fight of ours anymore. I don't need you anymore. You are. No, you're not part of this gang. We'll see you later. The clubhouse. You don't have the passcode anymore. So I was okay with that. But I still. For the last three months, I looked back and I said, they're not evil. They're lost. They're not evil. They're not evil. They're not. They're not demons. I know that they're not.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But then when Charlie Kirk died, when he was assassinated, and I saw those celebration posts from people I looked up to, from people who would have fought for me, who would have killed for me, and I saw them celebrating. I knew then that there were demonic forces within them. And that hurts, man. That hurts. Knowing that you had best friends. Best friends. I'm sorry, evil that are evil. It hurts, man, because I would have done anything for them, too. I would have, you know, let them into my house. I would have, you know, driven them wherever they wanted to. You know, there was just this strong friendship. When you share that intimate identity of being trans, identifying. There's a lot of love between trans people because you're suffering in that same struggle of being lost. They love each other so much. I loved my friends that were trans when I was living that life, man. I loved them so much, and I did it. And that's why it's so hard for me to look back and say they are now evil. Not all of them. Not all of them. But when I saw those celebratory posts, that hurts. It hurts.

[A]

And I just. I just want to. Because I know your heart, and I know we've had. We've had many conversations leading up to this podcast, and we've prayed about doing this podcast, and we have asked the Lord permission to do this podcast. And I've heard you speak so clearly about your experience of, as you call it, like, leaving the gang, and also your deep love for these people. And then I know you and I both. I don't want to put this particular commentator on blast because I don't know if he's a believer or not, but hearing. Hearing him call them rats and call them demons, the left, you know, not just trans. You and I both just felt sick. We're like, no, that's not it. And I think the church needs to understand that the trans community is made in the image of God, and they're beloved by God, and he is longing for them to come home so much. And as Christians, it is the kindness of the Lord that leads us to repentance. And our heart is just that they would experience that kindness and that we do not hate you. We love you. And it is so important, I think, to have this conversation, because for me, I'm even stumbling over my words right now because I'm trying to figure out how to say it, and that's why I think it's so important to hear from you. But like the Billy Graham quote of, like Billy Graham said, I wish I would have studied anthropology because if I, if I understood how to. Anthropology is the study of different cultures, if I understood how to communicate to different specific cultures, I could reach them better with the gospel. So for us, the goal of this podcast, we discussed this before we did the podcast. We just want to understand the trans community in order to communicate the love of Jesus to them. And I know that's difficult for you because you're like, dude, I feel like I am light years removed from the trans community. I feel like I'm light years removed from my life as Nicole. But could you give us a window even? You know, I remember you talking about, like going out to dinners and stuff and like right before a restaurant would close and, and just like understanding kind of a little bit about the trans community and, and not so that we can point a finger and put them on blast so that we can understand how to communicate. And we need to understand the enemy's playbook. We need to understand his schemes so that we can enter in with love. Because the weapons of our warfare are love.

[B]

Yeah, I think it, I think it starts by trying to understand who, who's being worshiped here in the community we, we know as Christians who we worship. I worship him every second of the day, Our Lord Jesus Christ. But what is being worshiped there? Is it. It's not Satan. Maybe it is, but disguise are they worshiping what is the idol? And it's themselves. Okay, so if we know this, they worship themselves. They worship every desire of the flesh in this world. Let's start from there. So we would go out to. I used to go to this trans support group every Wednesday night. And again, some of the best friends I ever had in my life. Still, I'm smiling thinking about it. Because of how much we loved each other. We would go out to dinner after the support group. And I remember I used to be a server, like my first couple years of college. And I'm very passionate about tipping well. And if a restaurant's closing at 9 o', clock, don't get there at 8:50 and think you're going to order steak and potatoes. But I remember going to this sushi restaurant that closed at 9:00'. Clock. We pull up at 8:45. There's 20 of us at 8:45. And there's. I don't know if some of those people served or worked in the hospitality before, but it was blinders. There was not one sense of compassion or feeling for. Maybe somebody had to get home to their kids or maybe that bartender Had a really hard day and was wanting to shut Those doors at 9pm There was nothing like that. And I remember turning over to somebody next to me, I said, hey. I said, you know, they close at 9 o'. Clock. It's 9 o' clock now. And the words out of his mouth was, well, we're here now. They'll be open. And he said, they'll be open till midnight if we want them to be. And I said, no, man, like, we should get to go. Like, we, you know, trying to, like. And I'm thinking they're, they're blind to the compassion of others. They were there for themselves, like, and.

[A]

Were they saying that because. Because, like, no one's going to trick, kick out the trans group.

[B]

Nobody. We could have danced on the tables naked and everybody would have looked the other way. You can't. These are, you know, there was a quote about, you know, if, if, if you're not able to judge what's, what's being done, you know, maybe they're, I'm confusing it, but if you can't speak about somebody or something, there's a problem there. So why was I, like, I was starting to be conditioned to. Why do I have compassion for the cisgender bartender, right? The cisgender white bartender. We are here now. This is our. The future is us. We run the restaurant now. It still doesn't sit right with me, but I glossed over it because the 19 people that I was there with would have done anything for me. They loved me more than my family, so I thought they loved me more than I've ever felt before I met Christ, obviously. But you see, like I was saying. Okay, well, yeah, we do run this restaurant. Okay, like, the compassion maybe have started to leave me because compassion is not welcome there. Whoa.

[A]

Do you think that's why trans people are committing such violence these days? Or. Let me. I'll ask you the question. Why do you think so many of the shootings recently have been done by trans people?

[B]

They're. They, they think the world is attacking them. They thought Charlie Kirk was against them. They thought Christians are against them because they don't know the love that we operate under. They don't know this love. They only know the love of their family who will kill for them. They don't know the love of him that died for them. So why. So, yeah, the reason is because they're confused. They're confused about who they are. They're confused about what they're really here for, and they're missing the love of Christ, they don't know what that feels like yet. So we prayed over and over before we even spent the hour shooting the other episode, that we would operate in love.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I'll continue to pray that we do, because this message is calling that community home, calling them. And there's two brothers right here that I never thought I would call you a buddy. There are friends I never thought I would make, and it's all because of him.

[A]

Mm. Amen. Amen. Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I. I think back to the shooter of that school in Minneapolis and the drawings he drew before and what he put on the bullet casings. I think both. Both shooters, the shooter of Charlie Kirk and then the shooting in Minneapolis, both trans motivated. One was trans. One was living with a trans partner. You see the drawings that this guy drew of a mirror, and it shows a demon in the mirror. You know, I've been talking to people who study demonology and former witches and former heads of the Church of Satan on this podcast. What do you. Because that's. This is an interesting question for you. Coming. You know, 95 days after detransitioning.

[B]

Do.

[A]

You think that there's a demonic force that is compelling these trans shooters?

[B]

Yes, I do. But I think it's starting with them killing for their family. They're killing not for their. Not for their own rights. I think that might be the most selfless thing happening in the trans community right now. Are these senseless acts of violence.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because. Because they're standing up for not just what they believe, but that family that loves them more than they've ever felt so far.

[A]

Their community. You're calling the family the community? Yeah.

[B]

That family. I felt in those support groups, in those. In those trans circles, that was the first time I thought I felt unconditional love was through those people. So that is the most. Yeah, I would say that it's demonic inspired, though, because look back to what they are worshiping. They're worshiping the desires of this world and who owns this world. So. And again, getting from point A to point B always passes through this world is all they know.

[A]

So what do we do? What do we do as Christians? Because what I'm hearing you say is, I'm hearing you say, when you say, I could see people being like, what did Niza say? You say, you said the most selfless act they're doing right now are these shootings. In their mind now, the selfless act is horrific. It's awful. But what you're saying is in their mind, they're not fighting just for their own safety. They believe people are after their community, they're after their identity, they're after their family, their trans family. And so they are killing anybody that's coming up against that. So that's why we've seen, what, 10 trans motivated shootings in the last I don't even know how long.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what do we do as Christians? Because how, like my thought right now is, you know, the whole goal of this podcast is, is not just to expose that. Like, it's very easy to just expose something, be like, that's wrong. This community is operating under demonic forces. But how do we step into that community? Like, what, what would you have needed? Because the Lord gave you a special touch from heaven. He gave you, you know, these visions where you, you know, you were doing the Buddha beads and he was like, nope, it's, it's me. I'm, I'm Jesus. I'm right here. I'm the real one. But, but that's not how most trans people are going to come out of this community. They're going to come out of this community, I think, by being shown love by Christ's body, by us. How do we do that?

[B]

Call them home, welcome them into your churches, continue to preach the gospel, continue Charlie Kirk's mission. And if somebody comes into your church that you don't like what they're wearing, you don't recognize, you know that you've never seen something like, you know, what they're displaying coming into your church, love them, show them what Christ has done in you, and allow them to come to the altar at their own time because they're not going to do it the first time or the second time. I don't know when they're going to come.

[A]

He.

[B]

He only knows. So allow them to come into our, our church bodies and show them what Christ has done in you. And I'll tell you, what Christ has done in me is sort of unexplainable. 95 days ago, I did not look like this or talk like this or have the friends that I do now. I have a beautiful girlfriend. I have a awesome mustache.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I am living the most fulfilling life I never thought was possible. That's what I'm going to show Christ has done in me. If I meet a trans person in my church, if I meet a trans person asking about Jesus Christ on the street or I present the gospel to them, I'm going to say, take a look at what happened to me. Look at how happy and joyful I actually Am. And this is not from any desire I got out of this world. It's not from me taking hormones or from buying the next dress or the Porsche. I talk about Portia's man. I still really, really want a Porsche, but it's nothing that came from this world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. If that's. The only thing I can convey is to show the love that Christ has shown me and the transformation that's been done. That's how we rescue them all love all gospel focused discussions. I think it's incredibly brave, people going to pride parades and sharing the gospel and even more brave by exponentially now. And those people are going to continue to do it because. Because they know that that's their mission. And those evangelists that are. I pray for them every day that they are not scared. They didn't. They didn't get that arrow of fear that we talked about earlier. Their way. Continue to show the love that Christ has shown to you.

[A]

Mm. Amen. Yeah. The disciples, when they got sent out, they had one prayer. They had one request. Lord, give us boldness. And I guess I have a question for you, because I'm hearing all this and I'm trying to think of a person who is trans or in the. And what their response would be. And yes, I. I hear you. Like, we have to move in love.

[B]

But.

[A]

I'm even hearing the word of the words of some of my, like, friends and loved ones who are in that community being like, well, if you don't, then you are fundamentally hateful towards me. How would you respond to that?

[B]

That if you don't affirm someone's lifestyle that you are hateful towards them? Is that right?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Because it's not. We as Christians are not here to affirm or judge. We're just meant to spread the gospel far and wide. Right. So I'm not affirming or judging. I'm just, again, showing the transformative in the love of Jesus Christ. So how would I respond if you're not affirming them? I would just say it's not up to me, man. Like, it's. This isn't me. This is the work that Christ has done in me. I don't know. Yeah, I think I would have an answer for you 95 days ago. Yeah, I don't have an answer now.

[A]

Wow, wow, wow. Oh, man, it'd be so interesting to have a current transgender person on the podcast.

[B]

And just, there are trans Christians, you know, there are Christians that are, you know, still living that trans lifestyle. And let me tell you that that's probably the, that, that's probably the thing I, I don't like to see the most because I, I think that that could, that could be me. And I've received so many messages and so many pastors in real life and online that tell me that Christ would love me more as a woman. And then I see trans identifying Christians and I know in my heart that we must die to ourselves and pick up our cross daily. And. But it's still, it's still hard because I feel like that's going to be the. If they are called home, I don't want them to be called home to a place that they don't change. You must change when you come to the Lord. Go to a place that you will be unrecognizable in 95 days. Don't go to a place that you're going to be the same person after three months of walking with the Lord because you weren't walking with him then. Go to a place that you will die and be born again.

[A]

What I'm hearing you say is, I'm hearing you say that some people are not ready for the transformation that the Gospel can do in their lives. And that's okay. That's not up to us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Our job as believers is to love. Number one, is to communicate the truth with boldness. Number two, and is to welcome sinners. This man welcomes sinners and eats with them. And so what I'm hearing you say is you're not rejecting or affirming sin when you're doing those things. What you're doing is you are coming, as Jesus did, to the table with prostitutes and tax collectors, and you are getting in the dirt with the woman caught in adultery about to be stoned. And everyone's like, the law of Moses says, you should stone this woman. What do you say, Jesus? And he just starts drawing in the dirt and says he was without sin, throw the first stone, and then lifts up the woman's head, saying is, you lead with love. But at a certain point, you have got to communicate the truth and say, now go and leave your life of sin. And if you're missing one of those two. That's right. If you're missing one of those two things, you are missing how Jesus encountered sinners.

[B]

And it's, it's a, it's a confrontational. It's a, It's a very confrontational conversation you're going to have. But shouldn't preachers of the gospel be confrontational? Be in your face? Because if you're Preaching the gospel. And you're not telling somebody to go and sin no more, are you? Are you preaching the gospel or are you?

[A]

No, you're not. You're not.

[B]

What are you doing then? If you just stop at. If you just stop at. I recognize everything you're doing. You're welcome here. And then that's it.

[A]

Dude. The Bible says there will come a day where people will have itching ears and they will find out pastors, they'll seek out pastors who will tickle their itching ears and tell them everything they want to hear. And we're in those days right now. You can go to any church in this country and find a church that says whatever you want to hear. But the most loving thing you can do is to communicate the truth to someone and to not lie to them. And I think that's why they killed Charlie Kirk. Like you said, didn't kill Charlie Kirk because of hate speech. They killed Charlie Kirk because of speech that they hated. And the gospel is fundamentally confrontational. The gospel fundamentally looks at you and says, you are a beloved child of the most high God, sinner in desperate need of grace. Go and sin no more because his blood has washed you clean and he's given you a hope and a future and he's given you a new life. And if we stop at just you're loved, then we're not loving if we've stopped it. Just like, where are your accusers? And we don't say, go and sin no more. We are missing what Jesus taught us to do. Jesus gave us the model for how to communicate with sinners. And he also you go out and you communicate the gospel and they're hostile towards you and they don't receive you. Shake the dust off and go on and find what the Bible calls a person of peace. A person of peace is a Niza 95 days ago who was ready to receive the word. The good soil where the seed can go down and it can sprout up a tree and it can bear fruit and that fruit dies and that fruit, that seed goes into the ground, it springs up more nieces, it springs up more trees. But if you're trying to communicate the gospel to a hardened path, to the rocky soil or to the thorny soil like the Bible says, you're just wasting your words. So go find person peace. Go find the people whose hearts are ready to receive. Because if you continually try to beat the drum of correction and you continually try to proclaim the gospel to someone that doesn't want to receive it and is hardened soil at a packed down path. And it's like, nope, not for me. That's not called evangelism. That's called being annoying and unaffective.

[B]

You know what I'm thinking about right now is I'm watching in my head those videos at Pride parades, and I'm just seeing that yelling person at the camera. But. But there are 10 people behind them ready. Ready. Their hearts are ready, man. Like, they're. They're needing it. They're so lost. They're not. Don't keep talking to that person yelling at you. There's 10 more people that were just like me that need to hear Christ loves you behind the camera, man. Like, that's why they still need to be there. Oh, that's just going through my head right now is like, man, at those parades, there's a thousand lost people. And. And we're only seeing those 10 that are hardened.

[A]

Yes. And it might make for a better social media clip to have the argument with the. The gay person that's yelling at you. Yeah, but there are so many people in the LGBTQ community are ready where they're soft soil. And all they need, all. All their heart needs, all that soil needs is a sower to go and sow the seed of the word of God.

[B]

Just put your hand out, pray for them, and tell them the gospel, man. And I, oh, man, there's so many. There's so many there. Ready. There's so many ready.

[A]

So if there's one message from this podcast, it is that boldness and kindness can coexist, that we are called to understand that the way the kingdom of God functions is it is the kindness of the Lord that leads people to repentance. Now go pray for boldness. Go find persons of peace whose hearts are ready, who have good soil ready to receive the seed of the word of God and then commune unashamedly and without apology. And then if they kill us for it, praise God. Because where there's persecution, the gospel advances. That's a fundamental principle in the kingdom of God. That wherever there's persecution, you can literally track this, the moves of God around the country or around the world. Where there's persecution, wildfire of evangelism, wildfire of revival. And right now, I think that a million more Charlie Kirks and praise God for that. Well done, good and faithful servant. Well done, Charlie. You were, but you awoken revival, and that's a beautiful thing.

[B]

Amen. I. I'm so glad we had this conversation. I'm so glad we did it again and again. And we had call after call and we prayed and prayed and said, nope, this isn't because I feel, I feel good about the conversation we had. I do.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I was scared. And I'm still nervous because I'm never going to equal the love of Christ in the way that I speak about the Gospel. But isn't that a good person to hold yourself comparable to? Right. Isn't that the process of sanctification is like, I know I'm never going to be as perfect and good, but in your actions, shouldn't you try and mirror his love?

[A]

Amen. Amen. I'll never forget my wife. My wife had this dream where she saw someone in her life who was really difficult, who's made her life really hard. And she saw this person. She was asking, it was actually wasn't a dream. My wife had a vision where she saw this person who's been really difficult and she saw him in a wheelchair. And she said it was like the Lord gave her new eyes to see that he's actually really hurting. He's actually really wounded. And that hurt people. Hurt people. And I just wish Christians could understand that the trans community does not mean harm. They're just hurt. They're misguided, they have been indoctrinated and they need a touch from heaven. Jesus pursues the outcasts. I'll never forget I just had Jamie Carrington. If you guys don't follow Jamie Carrington on social media, go follow Jamie carrington. He's this 18 year old young man in a wheelchair. And we were at the studio where we were about to film the podcast and we're wheeling around and wheeling him around and this man comes walking by and he sees Jamie in the wheelchair and he stops his conversation and beelines it towards Jamie and he goes, who are you, young man? You look like a mighty man of war for the kingdom of God. And you know, he's just like old black preacher that's just like, you know, they're the best. Like, like this dude went full gospel, full love on Jamie. And he's like, tell me your story, young man. And he's like, he's locking eyes with Jamie and, and he's just like in. It was like a tractor fed him to this young man in a wheelchair. And if only Christians had that same to where we could see the wounded, where we could see the trans community as hurt as sheep without a shepherd. And we tractor beamed our love towards them. We didn't. We weren't like, whoa, I don't know how to respond here. They might yell at me, they might be mad at me, but we just simply looked at them and we said, you are so loved by Jesus. You are so beloved. You are so made in his image. Tell me your story. We had the same response as this guy to Jamie, where just fascination, curiosity, love, and then through relationship, like Jesus did. We don't skimp on the truth. Say now I know a man who told me everything I'd ever done, who told me I had five husbands and the man I was. And then he didn't condemn me for it, and he rejected my shame. And so I ran back to the village, even though I was, you know, the only woman going to the well in the middle of the day because I was so ashamed, I ran back to that village where I was outcast. And I told everyone about this man who loved me dearly. If we could only have that posture to see that they're wounded. They're not the enemy, they're not demons. Are they under demonic spell? Maybe some of them.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

And what we need to do is we need to pray for them. We need to pray for the Lord to break the chains, to break the strongholds like he did in your life, Niza. And then we need to move towards him with this vigor in the same way that this older minister went to Jamie and locked eyes and loved him.

[B]

I love that. You know what? What Clip in my head I was. I was playing. When you're talking about that is the Robin Williams goodwill hunting with. Yes. Matt James. It's not your fault. Not your fault. It's not your fault. And if you met me five years ago, ten years ago at a pride parade, and you came up to me and said, you're loved, you're loved. And I would say, I would laugh at you, say, get out of here. Get out of my prayer. No, no, no. You don't know what you're talking about. You're loved. And just. You're loved. You're loved. You would have broken me because I was so hungry for so long. And there are thousands of hungry, hungry souls wanting to hear that they are loved and that it. It doesn't cost anything. You don't have to give up your family. You don't have to give up your gender. You don't have to give up your life. You're loved. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. That's what they need to hear, man. You would have broke me because it's hard to think about who I Was. But I just, I was just thinking if, if that preacher came up to me and ran up to me with that sort of love in his eyes, you. It's hard to fight against something like that, right? Like you just take the love in, right. And that sharing that love that Christ has done in you. And if somebody really did that to a trans identifying person. Yeah. Well done.

[A]

Amen. Well, let's pray. Let's pray for peace. Let's pray for the body of Christ to rise and to become love to a world that thinks we hate them, to a trans community that thinks we hate them. And if you're listening to this and you are trans, I just want to bless you in the name of Jesus with the love of Christ. I just so desperately want you to encounter his love. That this man welcomes sinners and eats with them, even though that made him ceremonially unclean. According to the religious leaders, they said, jesus, you're now dirty. He didn't care. He pursued them and he loved them. And then when you experience the kindness of the Lord, when you experience what Niza has experienced, which is the treasure hidden in the field, you'll have no other choice but to leave your life of sin because you will have received your true identity. And if you're a Christian that is wondering and maybe inspired now by the death of Charlie Kirk and wondering what you should do next, draw a circle. Stand in the middle of that circle and pray for revival heart of the person standing in that circle. Ask the Lord to give you a heart for the least of these fall so madly in love with Jesus that you can't help but bubble out that love. And so, Heavenly Father, we just pray for every listener, whether they know you or they don't. Would you touch them with your Holy Spirit? Would they encounter a God who loved us so deeply that he was killed by the ones he came to save? Would you inspire a generation of forgivers? Would you inspire a generation of people who see the example of Charlie Kirk to speak boldly? And Jesus, would you spark revival, a wildfire blazing through our land of revival? And Lord, would you start with the least of these, with the trans community, with the people that think they have no business step the family of God be such a gravitational pull for them? Would it be so clear how much love is in the body of Christ that they would see the counterfeit within their community? Lord, we just pray for soft hearts. Would you begin softening that soil, Lord? And would you send out your evangelists, would you send out your apostles to proclaim the good news of Jesus. Lord. Thank you for Niza. Thank you that he's gone first. Thank you that you have built a mighty warrior in him. Continue to bless his ministry, Lord, and pray this in Jesus name. Amen.

[B]

Amen.