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Congressman Riley Moore on Nigeria’s Christian Genocide | JPP Episode 55
00:30:48
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- [00:00]
A
Look at what's happening with over 7,000 Christians killed in Nigeria, to see what's happening in the brick kiln industry in Pakistan, to see how pastors are being rounded up and put into prison in other countries, and then to see the revival that's happening in countries like Iran, where the church is blossoming because of the persecution. Guys, welcome to the Jesus People podcast. We have the honor of having Congressman Riley Moore on the pod today. Congressman, thank you for joining us.
- [00:45]
B
Hey, thanks for having me.
- [00:46]
A
Well, this is a. A very special podcast for us. A lot of people might be like, well, why are you having someone political on the Jesus People podcast? And the answer is, it's because Christians are being slaughtered right now in Nigeria, and Trump has appointed you to oversee that situation. So my first question for you is, I'm sure you're a man of deep faith, or else Trump wouldn't have picked you. Why did Trump pick you to oversee this situation in this crisis?
- [01:10]
B
Well, bit of a long story, but I'll try to make it short. So one of the first floor speeches I gave last year was about the persecution of Christians around the world, whether Africa, Middle east, you name it. Nigeria is one of the ones that I highlighted. And this has been an issue of passion for me as a person of deep faith, as a Christian, as a Catholic, something I care about tremendously. Our brothers and sisters in Christ who are being persecuted and murdered and martyred around the world for the profession of their faith in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So this is what I was focused on, is trying to redesignate Nigeria as a country of particular concern. And I can get into what that means in a little bit. But the Biden administration had taken that designation off. They took that designation off, and they said that the murders that were happening against Christians in Nigeria had more to do with climate change than being a Christian, which, as we know, is ridiculous, nonsensical. And I've been to Nigeria. I can tell you, as an eyewitness to this, that's just not the truth. So I pushed really hard to get that designation. President Trump last year had heard my calls and specifically asked me, in a true social post, in true President Trump fashion, to lead an investigation on Nigeria and then followed that up with, with. And if they don't do something, we're going to go into that country guns blazing, and we're going to start to help fix this for them. Now, since that time, that designation has been put back in place by President Trump. I'm on the House Appropriations Committee. As we were tasked to lead this investigation. And that's what we've been doing. I was in Nigeria just last month. We went to Benue State, which is one of the most Christian states in, in the Middle Belt region of Nigeria, where a lot of this violence is taking place. It's all over the country. It's in the northeast, northwest, obviously, but very concentrated in the middle belt. This is where you see high concentrations of Christians being murdered and pushed off their ancestral homeland by Islamic Fulani militants. And so I went there and visited, met with Christian associations down there, Bishop Anagbe, different types of Christian organizations in that region. And I can tell you, as an undisputable fact, people are being murdered for their faith in Nigeria. That is an undisputable fact. And so I'm going to be presenting this report to President Trump soon and giving him our congressional recommendations and things that we'd like to see happen. But, but I do want to highlight, since President Trump's engagement on this, since I've engaged on this, but particularly the president, who has the ability like no other to pressurize any situation, The Nigerian government has started to work with us, really. They have started to work with us in trying to address these issues. So I think we're going to end up in a place where we do have some type of cooperative agreement. That's what we're working towards to address this together. And that's the ultimate outcome that we'd like to see happen in this, but we're moving rapidly towards it. I would say I've been pleasantly surprised at the reception as of late with the Nigerians. But all that to be said, problems continue to persist in the country. Just massive insecurity and murders are continuing to take place literally on a daily basis.
- [05:04]
A
Right, yeah, that was, that was. One of my questions for you is, you know, the Nigerians also claimed responsibility for this attack on the militants in the north for that Christmas Day attack which we. We've known was coming. Right. Judd, Saul and Equipping the Persecuted has been giving these reports. Too many people, too many governments, and saying, we know when they're happening, where they're happening. And Trump decided to do something on Christmas Day, which I think to, you know, to the joy of many Christians, was a beautiful Christmas Day present to say, hey, our brothers and sisters in Christ in Nigeria are being protected. But also what I was shocked by is that the Nigerian government also claimed responsibility for it when it doesn't seem like much has been happening on their front when they've been tipped off to some of these attacks. How much of that was a marketing plan? How much of that was legit? Like the Nigerian government is legitimately stepping into this?
- [05:56]
B
Well, it was in coordination with the Nigerian government. I will say that we did not unilaterally go in and do that. What we're trying to do with them. There are capability gaps there for the Nigerians that we are trying to help fill. And what we want to see is some confidence building measures in this, building our confidence on our side that they are going to be an equitable partner in this and a nation that we can trust to actually stop the murder of Christians in that country. Now look, I'm sure somebody out there is going to watch this and say, but everybody's being killed. Correct? Yes. You got isis, Iswap, you got Boko Haram and then we have the Fulani down in the middle belt of the country. And is Boko Haram and Iswap, are they killing Muslims too? Sure. They're terrorist organizations. No doubt about it. They have political objectives. They're an existential threat to the Nigerian government. Got it. But all that to be said, 5 to 1, 5 to 1, it is Christians versus non Christians being murdered in that country. And that is a fact.
- [07:02]
A
Yes, yes. And Congressman, where's the money coming from? Because it's clear that these organizations are being funded in the north. Where does that money come from?
- [07:12]
B
Well, what I can say publicly about it is that it is coming from outside of the country. Yes, it is coming from outside of the country. Arms are coming from outside of the country into Nigeria. There's very porous borders. And so it's coming from outside of the country and being pushed in to the hands of these terrorists, which I don't want to step into something classified here obviously, but you know, it's. We are acutely aware of who's involved in this, Right? Yep.
- [07:48]
A
And, and we know that Nigeria is a resource rich country and we know that there's interests in that. I was just in Nigeria in the fall as well and witnessed horrific stories and, and saw incredible faith. I spoke with men and women who were literally shot in the face, who were burned alive nearly, who lost their entire families just a few weeks prior and were still praising the Lord. What have you learned from a faith perspective from, from the Nigerian brothers and sisters in Christ that we have?
- [08:18]
B
You know, just a kind of daily observation for me. You know, sometimes it's, you know, we're trying to get, to make sure I'm getting all three of my kids in the car to get to church on time. And it's like, my life so hard. Like, these people are literally facing death and showing up and worshiping in these churches, knowing it could be the last day that they ever came. We are so blessed to be in the country that we're in. Every Christian in that country that continues to fight and practice their faith. It's such an inspiration. Not only to me, it should be an inspiration to all of us who believe in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, each and every one of us. I don't care what your denomination is. These people are a true inspiration, and they're real warriors for the faith. And they're doing it as folks who are unarmed but unafraid and moving forward and still practicing their faith. And there's something that is just so inspiring in that, and it should be inspiring for people all over this country and all over the world, quite frankly.
- [09:22]
A
Amen. I've never seen anything like it in my life. Just witnessing the forgiveness. I think there were two things. It was the forgiveness and it was the gratitude. It was like these people who were in these IDP camps, and they're, like, coming up to us and hugging us and thanking us for beans. I'm like, you're thanking me for beans? You just lost your. Your son and your. And your husband, and you're still filled with this gratitude and this forgiveness. It was very inspiring for me, who, you know, can struggle with unforgiveness because someone said something mean to me on social media. You know, it's like, right, your family was just massacred and you're still choosing to forgive them. It's just pretty. It's pretty incredible. I think we have a lot to give the persecuted church, particularly in Nigeria, but I think they have a lot to give us, too. I think we're pretty safe in our Western community Christianity. And, you know, one thing I hear quite often is that Christians shouldn't get involved in politics. Let's keep them separate. What would you say to that, as a Christian, Congressman?
- [10:17]
B
I would say to anybody who says that, go read our Constitution. The separation of church and state is not in it. It is not in it. That was a letter that was from Thomas Jefferson. To keep the state out of our churches, not for us to go check our faith at the door when we walk into these buildings to do our jobs. That is not part of this. And my faith is the formation of every decision that I make, every decision that I make. And that's really the way that it should be. This is a Christian Nation. To act otherwise is completely disingenuous to the entire foundation of this country. That's literally why we're here. That's literally why we're here. And obviously it's an indisputable fact. And we have gone through kind of our historical aspects of it all and different denominations coming to this country, and we've all arrived at this very harmonious position in between, all of us. And I think this tragedy that's unfolding in Nigeria has really awoken a lot of people. So when I talk to folks in my district, in my community, the evangelicals, the Southern Baptists, the Catholics, whoever it is, everybody is talking about this. Everybody is talking about this. And I think what they want to see is a more muscular Christian faith, a more offensive Christian faith that's going to stand up for our brothers and sisters in Christ, because that's who these people are, every one of them.
- [12:02]
A
Hey guys, I wanted to pause real quick and tell you about something that I'm really excited about. We have put together a night of prayer for the persecuted church. I just got back from Nigeria and got wrecked. I saw things that I never imagined I would see and I saw faith that I've never seen in my life. And we would love it if you would gather your friends, gather your church, gather your small group, gather your family. And what we're going to do is we're going to ask some questions that we can answer and discuss together. We're going to go through a list of needs of how we can support the persecuted church. And then I've put together a full documentary on my time in Nigeria. I think you're going to love watching this and be inspired and moved in your faith as well. So please put a date in your calendar, click the link in the description, or you can go to the Jesus People movement.com and join us. This is going to be a special time to gather people together and to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ, knowing that Jesus said whatever you did for the least of these brothers, you've done for him. Amen. Amen. You know, I had the chance to collect, connect with Ezekiel do in Nigeria, and we've become friends. And I remember leaving that meeting and you know, they call him the voice of Nigeria. He is one of the main pastors speaking out about this. As you know, many pastors are afraid for their lives to even speak out about what's happening in the north and the middle belt. And Ezekiel is boldly speaking out. And you know, we connected. We did. We did a Podcast there in country in Nigeria. And then when I got home, I was, you know, talking with him about social media and all this stuff. And, you know, he has an armed guard that's attached to him forcibly, like they have forced him to have an armed guard because they do not want him becoming an international martyr. But then we get home and he gets banned off of Facebook and so we start an Instagram for him. The next day he gets banned off of Instagram. And so I think one thing that I learned in this process is, you know, it is a non negotiable for Christians to be speaking out about this because the most powerful weapon we have is our voice. The most powerful weapon Ezekiel do had was, was his social media, was the microphone. And they, whoever they is, you can interpret, do not want him to have that microphone. They do not want him to have that page. And so I just applaud you, Congressman. And I'm so grateful to the Lord for you for speaking out and for going before even Trump appointed you. Speaking out about the persecuted church. There's a scripture where Jesus said, whatever you did for the least of these brothers, you did for me. And I think a lot of people say, whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me, as in just general people. But Jesus, I believe, is really speaking about the persecuted church, that whatever you did for the least of these brothers in the family, if you took care of them, you've literally taken care of him because we're the body of Christ. And I just think that's the call to every Christian is to look at what's happening with over 7,000 Christians killed in Nigeria, to see what's happening in the brick kiln industry in Pakistan, to see how pastors are being rounded up and put into prison in other countries, and then to see the revival that's happening in countries like Iran where the church is blossoming because of the persecution. I think that Christians have a duty, number one, to be educated and then number two to do something about it. My question for you is practically if someone's watching this and they're saying, yes, I'm fired up, I'm emboldened, I'm impassioned by the massacre, by the genocide happening in Nigeria, we what does the average American Christian do about it?
- [15:30]
B
Well, first is continue to speak about it and on some of these platforms you've mentioned, yes, talk about it publicly. We're not supposed to just keep our faith in our closet, in our house. It's just something I kind of pull out during Christmas And Easter. Right. That's not the way the faith works. We need to go out and proclaim the good news. Right. And two, there are a lot of wonderful, wonderful Christian organizations who are working on the ground in Nigeria that do need help and support. They do need help and support, and they're driven by donations. Now, I can't directly solicit donations for anybody, but go take a look at those groups that are doing just wonderful work on the ground that need help. And there's a lot of them that do. And I've met with many of them. And they do need the. And they do need help. They really do. But it's time to speak out about this. And I never thought I'd be uttering these words. Take a look at the example of Nicki Minaj, of all people, who is speaking out about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria. And God bless her for doing it. I mean, it comes at a social cost for her, obviously. But any of these social costs that we face for this is nothing compared to the cost that these folks in Nigeria are paying every day.
- [16:52]
A
Amen. Amen. Amen. And I will list them because I can. A great one that me and my family personally support is Global Christian Relief. That is actually who I went to Nigeria with. And I saw the work that they're doing. I saw them rebuilding homes, rebuilding churches, rebuilding wells. I saw them doing trauma counseling, building schools. I saw them taking children to the hospital who had such bad burns all over their bodies and were not receiving appropriate medical care. I watched one of the leaders walk in and say, get that girl to a hospital tomorrow, and then took them to a hospital. So Global Christian Relief is a phenomenal organization. We'll put the link in the description. Another great one is equipping the persecuted. Judd Saul is an amazing man of God who has really been blowing the whistle on this for a very long time. Before it was in the mainstream media and news and influencers and politicians were speaking about it. Judd Saul has been doing a lot of great work. So you can go to equipping the persecuted as well. I'll also put that link in the description. But I want to ask you, Congressman, you know, we went in, we attacked the terrorists on Christmas Day, but there still is this issue with the ethnic Fulani who are attacking Christians very regularly. What can the United States even do about that?
- [18:09]
B
No, we are going to do something about that. So this is part of this agreement that we are going to reach with the Nigerians one way or another. This is going to be part of that solution, it is not just, you know, now, look, we have seen ISIS put out this statement, either you convert or die to Islam or pay the tax now. But what's going on with the Fulani? It is illegal to own a firearm in Nigeria. And these folks are armed to the teeth. Nomadic people, just roaming bands of them attacking Christians in their ancestral homelands, attacking IDP camps, people who are literally fleeing them. And that's something I, you know, I talked to folks when I was in Nigeria. They had just been attacked. They had just been attacked. They'd recently been attacked. And so the Fulani must be disarmed. That is part of the deal here. And I've said that publicly in every hearing, TV interview or otherwise. The Fulani have to be disarmed. That is part of the deal. And if that doesn't happen, then we don't have a deal that has to take place here. Two, they need to stop this grazing that's going on because that's kind of the mask that hides behind all this. It's about access to agrarian and arable land and desertification in the north and all this other stuff. Move to the ranching system. This is what everybody else has done. And I will give Tinubu his credit. He started the Ministry of Cattle. Okay, that's great. Or Ministry of Livestock, rather. But it actually has to get implemented. That has to happen. They have to move to the ranching system. And if they don't want to do that, they can leave. They can go back to wherever they came from. So if they don't want to do that, then they don't have to be in Nigeria. They can go back, cross the porous border, which they cross to get there, or they can integrate into what is being offered by the Nigerian government, what the American people and the American government is supporting, which is ranching, and the end of this grazing up and down from the north, northeast, and south of the country down into the middle belt of the country. So that's got to end. So the Fulani have to be disarmed. And if they can be integrated back into a ranching system as it relates to their cattle, great. That's something that they're going to have to accept. And then we are going to deal with the terrorists up in the northeast. But that is part of this. These two things are linked. They're not mutually exclusive or separate.
- [20:42]
A
Right, right. Because they're getting the guns somehow. And just for people that aren't familiar with the Fulani, the Fulani are nomadic herders. They're herding cows primarily through the country. So they're a nomadic people group. And largely a lot of Fulani are peaceful people, but there have been some that have been radicalized and have been weaponized. And largely Christians own the farmland in Nigeria. So they're going into that farmland, taking over that farmland and then killing all the Christians. Is that your understanding as well, Congressman?
- [21:10]
B
Oh, yeah. No, that's exactly what's happening. So then they're being pushed off to their ancestral homeland. And now look, there are some certainly peaceful Fulani that exist in Nigeria who've been there for a few generations now at this point. But then there are those who are not. And it's a huge problem that's going to have to be part of this holistic approach to solving the insecurity in this country and stopping these radical Islamic terrorists from murdering Christians in in the middle belt of the country or the destabilizing activity that's happening in the northern part of the country with Boko Haram and isis. And you did mention Judd Saul, so I got to give him a shout out. I did meet with him. He's a great guy who's doing excellent work and we're certainly looking forward to continuing to talk with him and working with him in the future. Very good guy.
- [22:01]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, is there any plans to disrupt the money flow into these northern. I mean, it has to be going to leaders somewhere. I don't know what the leadership looks like, but there have to be people that are controlling this outside money coming in. Is there any plan to stop that flow of money and how would you go about doing that?
- [22:19]
B
Yeah, we are looking at all of that. And I don't want to get ahead of my report, but these are things that are touched on in this that we do know that the money flows are an issue. We do know have a pretty good idea where these things are coming from and where they're going. So these are all things. Sorry to give you a vague answer, but I don't want to get totally in the weeds on it, but this is something that we are acutely aware of and something that we are going to tackle.
- [22:50]
A
Amazing. Now, as we wrap up, Congressman, I know your time is tight. What have you personally learned? I know you talked about church and gratitude and as you met with Nigerian Christians, what have you learned about Christianity as a whole?
- [23:09]
B
It's a very good question. You know, I know we've talked about all Christians. We all talk about this, but salvation through suffering. And there's no one who's Suffering more from them. And even through their suffering, I think it offers each one of us, even outside of them, salvation because of the inspirational actions that they're taking in their own country. And, you know, you touched on scripture, Book of Matthew. Right. As we call them, the Beatitudes Sermon on the Mount. It says, you will be persecuted in my name.
- [23:48]
A
Right.
- [23:49]
B
And that is literally what is happening to them right now. But salvation through suffering. And no one is suffering more than them. And I think, in a sense, they're offering all of us a window to salvation by stepping in and trying to help.
- [24:05]
A
How can people be praying for? I would a few things. One, for our government leaders, you included in that, obviously. President Trump included in that, obviously. But also the Nigerian government. It sounds like they're beginning to cooperate. And then how can we be praying for Nigerian Christians? So three groups there.
- [24:22]
B
Yeah. I'd start with the Nigerian government. I mean, pray for them to keep an open heart in this and cooperate with the United States government so we can resolve this issue. That's certainly very important to President Trump. This is. As soon as it got back on his radar, it was like, of course we're going to do this. He's somebody that deeply cares about Christians all over the world. In terms of the Nigerians suffering themselves, I would just pray, and I do pray, by the way, every single night, me and my family, to continue to grant them strength, for God's will to be able to prevail in the country of Nigeria and for these Nigerians that are suffering so greatly right now. But, yes, pray for them. Pray for their families. And what was the third one? Sorry, I forgot about the third.
- [25:15]
A
It was our government. It was Nigeria.
- [25:17]
B
Yes. And our government is for our government to continue to have resolve around this issue. I mean, as you well know, people just move on to the next thing after, you know, a couple weeks of talking about it. And Nicki Minaj said something. And Nicki, if you're watching this, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
- [25:38]
A
Keep saying thank you, Nikki.
- [25:40]
B
Yeah, thank you, Nikki. Please. You're a real saint for doing what you're doing. But resolve and patience and focus for the elected officials in the United States government to stay the course on this. Stay the course. It's the right thing to do.
- [26:01]
A
Amen. You know, there were a few people that I told in Nigeria, as I'm watching different people suffer, even with physical pain, not, I mean, let alone the emotional toll of losing your family. And I'm sitting with these people, and I remember looking them in the Eyes. Two people come to mind. It's a brother and sister who had lost pretty much their entire family to the terrorists, were nearly burned alive. Burns all over their bodies. Their names were Nancy and Philemon. And I told them, and I don't know how much they believed me as I left, I said, your story will not go untold. But these two siblings were nearly burned alive in their hut, were continually pushed back into their house by the terrorists as their hut is in flames, as their mother has died. Their brother and their. Their father in a previous attack had fled one way, they fled another way, and the brother and brothers and the father had been gunned down. They were taken captive by the terrorists and then escaped, were eventually found again and. And had their hut lit on fire. And they're sitting in front of me, and I've never seen pain in someone's eyes quite like this in my life where it's a trauma. I have a background in mental health, but I'd never seen trauma in someone's eyes like that. And I looked at them and I said, you, story will not go untold. And I just want to honor them in this moment, and I want to honor them, But I also want to bring to mind the fact that it's very easy to get lost in the numbers of 2 million displaced, 7,000 killed in the last year, and to just kind of get lost in that. But the story of two siblings being nearly burned to death, the excruciating pain in the hospital, months in the hospital, knowing that your entire family was killed, just put yourself in that situation, and then having to escape and to flee into the bush and to just try to find safety, only to arrive at an IDP camp and to be sleeping on a concrete floor and to be so grateful for that concrete floor as I'm sitting with them on the floor and, you know, my old hips and knees, I'm getting sore. I'm like, this is really uncomfortable. And then couldn't go back to my hotel room that night and lay on my, you know, cushy mattress. And this, you know, this is not a US Tempur pedic. We're talking still, you know, comparatively, it's. It's unreal, the difference, and just not think of them. And to realize that we have been given so much and to realize that those 7,000 killed, they're now with the Lord. There are hundreds of thousands like Nancy and Philemon who are suffering, who have had to flee their village and sleep in the bush at night out of fear for an attack. So they're dealing with complex trauma here. And so I think for Christians in the West, I want to bring up that story for the point of just saying that it's very easy, like you said, to get really passionate about these issues and then to kind of forget about it and to go back to our daily lives. But I'll never look at my bed the same again. And I would just encourage you listening, as I know you, you've been in country, Congressman Moore, as I have it, it changes you. And to just realize that we will get to heaven one day and we will stand before them. And I think some of them will come up to us and say, you don't know me, but you, you smuggled me a Bible. You know, you, you, you sent me aid. You fixed our church, our village, and Jesus will say, whatever you did for Nancy and Philemon, you did for me. So again, the plea to the Christian in the west is to continue talking about this, to deal with practical needs. You again, go to the link in the description in this video, and then to pray for our leaders. Congressman Amore, you're our hero. Thank you for what you're doing. This is one of those for such a time as these moments for you, and so very grateful for you. It is encouraging to see politicians in power that are saying, we're going to look after the least of these. So thank you so much for what you do.
- [30:00]
B
Well, look, all glory and honor goes to the Lord. I'm just an instrument in this, and He's, I think, put me in a place to make a decision of. Are you going to try to do something here? I probably shouldn't be the guy doing this, but I feel the Lord's asked me to do this and that's why I'm here. And I'm going to do everything I can to try to help these folks and protect them and save their lives and protect our brothers and sisters in Christ. So I'm honored to be in the position that I am and hopefully I don't let folks down.
- [30:31]
A
Well, it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like God has put you in this position for a very clear reason. And we're very grateful as fellow Christians. Thank you so much for your service and thank you for being with us on the Jesus People podcast today.
- [30:45]
B
Oh, thank you so much. God bless.
- [30:47]
A
God bless you.