Lisa Bevere: The Future of Gender Roles in Society | The Jesus People Podcast Episode 53

Summary

Jesus People Podcast, Episode 53

Lisa Bevere: The Future of Gender Roles in Society

Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Ryan Miller
Guest: Lisa Bevere

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, host Ryan Miller and best-selling author and Christian leader Lisa Bevere engage in a candid discussion on gender roles, the cultural confusion surrounding identity, and the essential role of both men and women in God’s design for society. The conversation traverses Lisa's personal experiences, spiritual insights, the impact of the sexual revolution, the attack on children and the next generation, and practical wisdom for marriages and families seeking to honor God's blueprint. Bevere also calls listeners—especially women—to boldness, repentance from cultural compromise, and generational discipleship as key preparations for revival and restoration.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origins of Gender Confusion and Cultural Backlash

Timestamps: 00:00–06:45

• Lisa relates an experience wearing a t-shirt reading "The future is male and female," triggering an unexpected and disproportionate amount of backlash on social media.
  • “Without male and female, there is no future. You would have thought I said something absolutely revolutionary… 922 comments later, I was accused of co-signing patriarchy… called a bigot, a demon of hate, transphobe, homophobe…” (03:17)
• Traces the origin of the phrase "the future is female" to a 1975 lesbian separatist group, Labrys, emphasizing its roots as a call for separation and even spiritual warfare.
• Shares a powerful, personal moment where her teenage grandson reacts to the slogan, saying, "That I am unnecessary," prompting her concerns about the damaging messages young men are receiving about their value.

2. God’s Original Design: Male and Female as Intimate Allies

Timestamps: 06:45–10:31

• Lisa unpacks Genesis, stating, "God created woman as the answer to the very first problem,” emphasizing women are “answers to be embraced, not problems to be controlled.” (07:57)
• On the coin analogy:
  • “If I was a coin collector, both sides have to be in pristine condition for that coin to hold its value… God is saying, no, I want both in their place, honored and pristine.” (08:55)
• Ryan testifies to his marriage: “My wife completes me…And from the garden, Satan has been trying to disconnect that one.” (09:35)

3. The Enemy’s Strategy: Attack on Identity, Family, and Children

Timestamps: 10:31–15:32

• Both speakers agree that cultural confusion over gender is more than a political or social issue; it is spiritual warfare targeting family and identity—“This is far more sinister than we think…an attack on the children.” (09:35–13:27)
• Lisa references biblical passages (Revelation 12:17) to argue that the attack on women is ultimately an attack on children and the future of faith.
• Ryan affirms: “I see Jesus moving toward the wounded and children—and so is the enemy… he’s crafty, he’s going to twist God’s design.” (14:10)

4. The Role of the Church and the Need for Clarity

Timestamps: 15:32–17:06

• Both speakers agree the church has failed to speak with clarity and courage on these issues out of fear of backlash or misunderstanding.
• Ryan shares the impact of Charlie Kirk’s death as a wake-up call to be bolder and clearer in public witness about sexuality and life.

5. Jesus, Empathy, and Those Struggling with Gender Identity

Timestamps: 17:06–21:49

• Lisa describes a moment of mentoring, answering the question, “What would Jesus say to someone who believes they’re born in the wrong body?”:
  • “First of all, he would look at your friend, and he would see her, and he would say, I love you. You’re not a mistake…He would understand…If anybody was ever uncomfortable in the human body, I bet Jesus was.” (17:55)
• Calls for a non-condemning approach: “We need to position people…to the One who will make everything right.” (18:52)
• Warns of the influence of social media—the “box in their hand”—as prophetically foreseen decades ago.

6. Prophetic Perspective & Hope for Revival

Timestamps: 21:49–23:32

• Lisa shares a prophecy from 1984, predicting same-sex marriage, widespread idolatry, emasculation of men, and the control of lives by smartphones—all now reality.
  • “But…the most exciting thing: He mapped out this degeneration…then said there would be one more outpouring…a revival coming to our nation.” (21:51)
• Urges courage, breaking off the “fear of man,” and preparation for revival.

7. Preparation for Revival: The Role of Women

Timestamps: 23:32–26:29

• Ryan mentions how in Iran, the revival is being led by women, and asks Lisa what women can do to prepare:
  • Read and meditate on the Word above all
  • Boldness in faith: "Women need to actually give themselves permission to learn…” (24:13)
  • Repent from cultural compromise and partnering with the “Jezebel spirit,” defined as manipulation, seduction, and control.

8. Marriage, Submission, and the “Jezebel Spirit”

Timestamps: 26:29–37:38

• Lisa tells vivid stories about her wrestle with control in marriage and God’s conviction:
  • “[God said,] You don’t think John’s a good head of the household, do you?...You think you can do it better? It’s a yoke to you, but it’s a mantle to John. Throw it off.” (31:06)
• Describes practical, sacrificial steps she took to honor and build up her husband and sons, and how women can affirm the “prince” not the “fool” in their men.

9. Practical Advice for Marriages & Family

Timestamps: 37:38–44:50

• Use strengths-focused speech toward husbands or children—“Strengths displace weaknesses.”
• Lisa advocates building husbands up in front of the children, and the importance of learning and expressing love in the other’s “language.”
• Discusses challenges when married to a non-believer or “checked out” husband, and how to let God be one’s sufficiency—“Tell me I’m enough for you…then you can speak to your husband out of the source.” (38:13)

10. The Jezebel Spirit, Modesty, and Sexual Integrity

Timestamps: 44:50–57:02

• Detailed explanation of the Jezebel spirit: A ruling, seductive force of manipulation and control active both in biblical times and today.
• Both speakers share experiences of encountering backlash for speaking about women’s modesty—Lisa: “If you want a man to listen to you for your intelligence, don’t overwhelm him with your cleavage.” (46:07)
• Lisa details her vigilance at the beach with grandkids, drawing clear lines about honoring others and guarding family environments.

11. Sexuality, Pornography, and Spiritual Warfare

Timestamps: 57:02–61:04

• Lisa and Ryan discuss how pornography and sexualized messages have a spiritual pull, often inviting demonic influence:
  • “Pornography has a demon attached to it that has a calling voice.” (55:57)
• The need to “guard” rather than “hide” from compromising media—protecting minds, marriages, future generations.

12. The Language Battle, Culture, and Divine Order

Timestamps: 61:04–73:09

• Lisa highlights how controlling language shapes culture (“my body, my choice”; “sex worker” vs. “porn star”), urging the church to reclaim biblical language and truth.
• On roles: “Submission means sub—under mission—assignment. I submit to my husband because we are under assignment together.” (68:05)
• Testifies to the power of unity—even when a husband makes a wrong decision, if the couple is united, God can redeem the outcome.

13. The Way Forward: Conversations, Community, and Generational Healing

Timestamps: 73:09–end

• The key to restoring health in society is “constant, clear, courageous conversations”—modeled by the early church and urgently needed today.
• The importance of simple, daily practices—like eating dinner as a family—to build strong, secure children and families.
• Lisa closes with a prayer and commission, blessing this generation to “start small, but believe big…step out in faith…signs and wonders and miracles…art and beauty and truth.” (75:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lisa Bevere (03:17):
  “You would have thought I said something absolutely revolutionary…I got accused of co-signing with patriarchy, white patriarchy…called a bigot…a demon of hate…transphobe, homophobe.”
• Lisa Bevere (07:57):
  “God created woman as the answer to the very first problem…women are answers to be embraced, not problems to be controlled.”
• Ryan Miller (09:35):
  “My wife completes me…From the garden, Satan has been trying to disconnect that one.”
• Lisa Bevere (17:55):
  “He would look at your friend, and he would see her, and he would say, I love you. You’re not a mistake. He would understand.”
• Lisa Bevere (21:51):
  “He mapped out this degeneration of our nation…but then said afterwards there’d be one more outpouring and there’d be a revival…”
• Lisa Bevere (68:05):
  “Submission means sub—under mission—assignment. I submit to my husband because we are under assignment together.”
• Ryan Miller (54:19):
  “As the worst thing to do is to lust after your sister. Right. And if we're in the body, if we're family together, then we don't want to be doing that.”
• Lisa Bevere (75:53):
  “You do not have to have a big platform because you serve a big God. So start small, but believe big.”
• Lisa Bevere (59:14):
  “You’re illegally accessing something that was intended for marriage. You’re trading authentic intimacy for imagery. But what you behold, you become.”

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 00:00–06:45: Introduction, social media backlash, and the origins of “the future is female.”
• 06:45–10:31: Genesis and God’s original intent for male and female partnership.
• 10:31–15:32: Satan’s strategy: attack on gender, family, and children.
• 17:06–21:49: How Jesus would respond to those with gender identity struggles.
• 21:49–23:32: Overview of cultural prophecy—degeneration and hope for revival.
• 24:13–26:29: Steps for women to prepare for revival.
• 26:29–37:38: Personal stories of marriage, control, and submission; spiritual warfare.
• 44:50–57:02: Jezebel spirit, backlash over modesty, and spiritual dimensions of sexuality.
• 61:04–73:09: The language war, reclaiming biblical truth, practical advice for families, unity.
• 75:53–end: Commissioning prayer and Lisa’s prophetic blessing over the next generation.

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Summary Takeaways

• God’s image is best reflected when both male and female flourish as allies, not adversaries.
• Current gender and identity confusion is deeply spiritual, not just cultural—requiring spiritual solutions: repentance, courage, and clarity in the church.
• Women are uniquely called to boldness, generational connection, and can lead in preparing for the coming revival.
• Marriage and family thrive in an atmosphere of mutual honor, sacrificial love, and roles aligned with God’s design—not cultural fads.
• Guarding hearts, homes, and children against sexualized and demonic influences is every Christian’s responsibility.
• Restoring biblical language and consistent, courageous conversations—especially intergenerationally—can shape culture and set the stage for revival.
• No platform is too small: every believer is called to start small, believe big, and expect God to bring signs, wonders, restoration, and creative renewal.

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For new listeners or those considering these topics: This episode provides both a prophetic warning and a hope-filled roadmap for navigating modern confusion over gender, marriage, sexuality, and identity—always pointing back to the transformative power of Jesus and the wisdom of God's Word.

Transcript

[A]

We've despised our roles.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, when women don't value what it is to be a woman, when women buy into the lie that they'd be more powerful if they act like men, you know, like, I'm watching what's happening in the culture. It's, it's so interesting. First, men, you know, women were acting like men, and now we've got men acting like women. So we shouldn't be surprised because when we despise our birthright.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We allow somebody else to take it.

[B]

Guys, welcome to the Jesus People podcast. What an honor. We have Lisa Bevere on the podcast.

[A]

I am so thrilled to be with you. I love how you do these conversations, Ryan. You do it with such kindness and clarity.

[B]

Thank you so much. That's, that's an, that's an incredible honor coming from you. I was chatting with my, my wife sitting over there, as you know, Annie sitting over there. And we've gone through your courses, we've read your books. We have been discipled in many ways by you and John and can't wait to meet him. He's the man.

[A]

He is the man.

[B]

Love, John Bevere.

[A]

I tell him you're my favorite husband. He's always like, no, I'm your only husband. I'm like, no, this one, this version is my absolute favorite. We're empty nesters and I'm so enjoying him.

[B]

Yeah. That's awesome. And you have an incredible relationship with your kids and your daughters in law and that is, we were just talking. That's an accomplishment in and of itself. I mean, that's like, that's goals that you won. You did it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

All your kids love Jesus in our, in the ministry. And so we just look up to you a lot and so grateful to have you here.

[A]

Listen, it's, it's, it's a lot of the grace of God and the redemption of God because I would say that John and I have done family well, but we have not done it perfectly. And we've done marriage well. We haven't done it perfectly. And I think, you know, well means you go from a place of lesser health to greater health.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Yeah, amen.

[B]

Yeah, we're, me and Annie, we're working through our own stuff and our own parenting and, and trying to, trying to figure it out and trying to raise little Jesus followers. And it's a blessing. And it's also just kind of wondering, like, are we screwing these kids up?

[A]

I'm serious. You've got to be so careful what you actually watch because there is many. So, so much conflicting information. And every single child is different, totally. You cannot. You cannot discipline them all the same. You cannot set them up for wins all the same, you know? And John and I just celebrated 43 years of marriage, so in October.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Incredible. Well, I love the shirt.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Tell us a little bit about the shirt.

[A]

Okay, so I live in Franklin, Tennessee, and it is a Christian bubble. And I wore a similar shirt to this. It said exactly the same thing to this coffee shop. And I'm in the coffee shop and I notice the men looking at me like, thank you. Thank you for including us in the future. I was like, I got you. And then I had some women coming up to me, Ryan, and they said, I want that T shirt. I was like, well, this is the only one I got. You know, I got it at a women's conference I spoke at. And so I thought, well, everybody's really happy about this T shirt. So I went out to my car, put on lip gloss, put on sunglasses, took a selfie, and I wrote, the future is male and female, because without male and female, there is no future. And you would have thought I said something absolutely revolutionary. I mean, 922 comments later, I got accused of co signing with patriarchy, white patriarchy, coding like all lives matter. I was called a bigot. I was called a Karen. I was called a demon of hate. Transphobe, homophobe, all this kind of stuff. And I thought, what in the world? Because I have learned when there is this much of a disproportionate reaction to something that everybody five years ago would have had no problems with, then there is something darker behind it. So I just went home and I just typed into my laptop, what is the origin of the quote, the future is female. And this 1975 lesbian separatist group came up called Labrys. And it's L, A, B, R, Y, S. And I thought, what is Labrys? Well, Labrysson is the two headed axe carried by the Greek and Roman goddesses. And on the front of the T shirt it said, the future. The. The future is female. On the back it said, keep your axes or your labyrinth sharpened. And they believed that. That lesbians should live completely separate for at least a time period from all heterosexuals and males. And they said the quote, the future is female was a call to war, an invocation, and a spell to cast. 25% of proceeds, not profits, go to Planned Parenthood. And Hillary Clinton brought it into her campaign. So the origin was part of a Presentation called what a well Dressed Dyke Would wear. And that is the origin of the quote, the future is female. And I'm just like stunned by this. And about that time, my front door opened and I don't know exactly what happened in the background, but I can guess. My. My grandson, well, six of them lived down the street. But my oldest one at that time, he was fourteen and a half or fifteen, and he rode his bike to my house. He opens the front door, I think he probably said, mom, can I have something to eat? She said, no. And he was like, I have an Italian grandmother down the street. I can get food whenever I want it. So he just rides over, my grandkids walk in, and he was like, you know, can I have some food? I said, absolutely. So I. I look at him, I said, asher, what are your thoughts on the quote, the future is female? And he just paused and he looked at me and he said that I am unnecessary. And I thought, wait a minute. Suicide rates for young men.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

24 to 35, have never been as high as they are right now because they have believed the messaging that they are unnecessary. And I was like, whoa, that's not the messaging. I want to send to my husband, to my sons, or I want sent to them, my grandsons, my brothers, our fathers, like, what is going on? But this is rooted in a demonic spirit that hates not just male, but male and female. Because the most anti female people you'll ever meet are feminists.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Because they say, if you want to be powerful as a woman, you need to act like a man.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And I don't want to act like a man. I want to act like a godly woman.

[B]

Amen. And this is his tactic since the garden.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, and here's the thing. The church has not navigated this well. Like, I even watch, like I talk to, I'll be quoting Genesis and I'll say, when God looked at the serpent and said, I'm putting enmity between you, the serpent and the woman. I said, whose side did he put the woman on? And they all just look at me and I'm like, okay, let's just. There's only two sides. There's only serpent bad, God good. And I said, and God prophesies that the Redeemer or the Savior is gonna come through the woman. The seed we know is Jesus gonna come through the woman. And they still are scared to say that God loves women and that God wove woman as an answer. And, you know, and I've been going around and literally, it's like a visceral response when I tell women God created woman as the answer to the very first problem.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And that was, it's not good for man to be alone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I say women are answers to be embraced, not problems to be controlled. And they'll just like. Like they start crying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just said, but, you know, men are not a problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said, male and female, we are intimate allies, and we were never supposed to be struggling with one another. We both have a unique gifting. And, you know, I. I like to think of it as. We're. Male and female are two sides of the same coin. I don't know if you've ever seen. I don't have one. I had to look it up online. But the American eagle, it's a gold coin. And on one side it has the eagle's head, and on the other side it has a beautiful woman. And she's holding, like, you know, a lamp and I think an olive branch or whatever. So we have. We could say that's the male side, the eagle, and the female side. But if I was a coin collector, both sides have to be in pristine condition for that coin to hold its value. And so what we've done is we've either elevated women and allowed the men to be defaced or elevated men and allowed the women to be defaced. And God is saying, no, I want both in their place, honored and pristine.

[B]

Wow. Amen. That's beautiful. And I know my wife and I were just talking about this the other day, like, I couldn't do what I do without her, without coming home and being encouraged by her and talking through the day and getting wisdom from her. And she knows that she can speak into every aspect of what I'm doing because she's my helpmate. She's my she. She completes me to a certain degree. Right. Obviously, we're completed in Christ, but she's perfect. We're one.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And from the garden, Satan has been trying to disconnect that one. And. And now we have a culture that doesn't even know what male and female is. And we're calling compassion what is really confusion. And the enemy is laughing the whole way home. Because I think what you can do is when you can disrupt the role that God has intended, you can get people to call into question not just their identity from a gendered standpoint, but their identity in the body of Christ as an image bearer. And so gender is so important to God's original design. And so important to marriage. And I think this is far more sinister than we think it is, because it's not just a political or a cultural issue. This is now a marital issue. And these little lies that are being seeped into the minds of women and men, which is. But it's all coming back to identity, and it's all coming back to value.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We've forgotten. And the result of that is shame.

[A]

Well, and we've despised our roles.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, when women don't value what it is to be a woman, when women buy into the lie that they'd be more powerful if they act like men, you know, like, I'm watching what's happening in the culture. It's so interesting. First men, you know, women were acting like men, and now we've got men acting like women. So we shouldn't be surprised, because when we despise our birthright, we allow somebody else to take it up. And so when women act like men, I've watched what happens. It's an ugly fit for women. And we need women to act like women and men to act like men. And I love how Jordan Peterson is very like, that can be a spectrum. You know, I'm a tomboy. I was a tomboy. I, you know, I have a motorcycle license. I surf, I ski, I hunt. Those are the things I like to do. John likes pickleball and golf. And so our boys are well rounded. But, you know, growing up, my parents got divorced when I was in junior high. If I was growing up right now, I would have been in that awkward state of junior high, maybe not developing, because, I mean, everybody's junior high story is different. But I was incredibly awkward, late bloomer. If somebody had come to me in my little Oshkosh by gosh outfit, trying to hide that I was not developing, and said, hey, maybe you were born in the wrong body. Yeah, I would have said, everything else in my life is wrong. You're probably right. But you don't sexualize children. You protect them. You allow them to mature from boy to man or from girl to woman. And what happened is the enemy is telling an entire generation that their formation is a mistake. Because he understands if you can go to the very seed, then they will question God's power of transformation. So there's always a darker scheme. It's really not about, oh, I'm uncomfortable in my body. It's a deeper, darker scheme. He is after the next generation, you know. Revelation chapter 12, verse 17 says, and then the dragon was enraged with the woman and Went off to make war against her children or her offspring, depending on the translation. And it says those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And I've been hearing it said a lot that that's talking about Israel, but I would say it is not exclusive to Israel. First of all, Israel is not currently holding to the testimony of Jesus. And we know that woman specifically was Eve, collectively, Israel specifically Mary. Now collectively, the church. And God always refers to the church in feminine terms. So it's another reason why the enemy's like, let's get rid of the idea of receptivity. Let's get rid of all of this idea. And again, you know, I think we have feminized the church and we need men to feel comfortable being men in the church. But what we're seeing now is an attack on the children.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I was at a church in San Antonio, it's a long term established church. And after I got done speaking to the women, the founder's wife approached me and you know, they're retired, but she was there and she said, did you ever know Derek Princess? And I said, no, no, I know of him, I don't know him. And she said, listen, we hosted him years ago and he was speaking at a luncheon for my women. We drove him back to the hotel. And my husband, I turned to say goodbye to him, he was weeping. Oh. He said, brother Prince, what's the matter? And he said, I see an attack coming against the women. And if the enemy can get the women, he'll get the children. And at the end of the day, he's always after the children, Always. And it's demonic.

[B]

Amen. And I see Jesus moving towards two parties in the Bible. I see him moving towards the wounded and I see him moving towards the children. And I think so is the enemy. Because Satan is not a creator. Right? He's crafty and he's going to twist God's design. That's what he wants to do. He wants to twist it so he sees that God's heart is for the children. So what's he going to do? Kill the babies and not call them babies, call them fetuses, call them clumps of cells. He sees God moving towards the wounded. What's he going to do? Move towards the wounded, to confuse, to get them in that confused state?

[A]

Trust God. He misaligned you.

[B]

Instead of saying, now did God really say you shouldn't eat of the apple or the fruit? He's saying, did God really make you a man Did God make you in the wrong body? And so right now, the enemy is causing confusion and calling it compassion. And Jesus is moving to. Towards them and saying, no, no, no. This is how I designed you. But the enemy knows if he can call into question their identity, their sexual identity, or their gendered identity, then he can call into question God's design for them. And I think the church needs to take a very hard stand right now and expose the works of darkness. And right now, I think we are punting largely on it, because we don't. And I think maybe the death of Charlie Kirk is shaking some people.

[A]

Yes. I do think people are like, wow, we need to have conversations.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With clarity.

[B]

With clarity.

[A]

Stop being cowards.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yes, 100%.

[B]

And I've seen that with. With friends of mine who are like. And for me, even personally, I'm like, I need to start speaking about abortion more. I need to start speaking about transgenderism and the confusion in the culture right now more than I have been. And there was almost a repentance moment for me when Charlie died and looking back at some of his clips and being like, oh, my goodness, this. This was the guy who was doing it, who was speaking clearly on these issues with compassion. And so it's fired me up, too, because you're right. We have this generation that's coming up right now, and Satan is attacking them. And even I was talking to, do you know Niza Powers?

[A]

No. You gotta follow. You know all these cool people. No, I don't know these people. I'm 65. I'm a grandmother. I don't know these people.

[B]

Well, Niza, I haven't seen a rise on social media like Niza Power since Bryce Crawford. Like, Niza has exploded.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Niza D transitioned, I think, 120 days ago or something like that.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And he's finding the Lord, and he was telling, oh, wait, have you seen it?

[A]

I did see you interview him. I didn't know his name.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes. Okay.

[B]

He's the man. He's become one of my best friends.

[A]

So I love that so much.

[B]

Yeah, he's awesome. But he was telling me. He's like, yeah, my analytics on social media, it's like, majority young people. And, you know, he's like 30, but his analytics are all Gen Z. And I think it's because that generation is starving for truth and clarity right now. And the transgender issue right now is such a hot issue topic. And so I think the enemy's overplayed his hand because I think the pendulum is now swinging back to truth.

[A]

Can I share a story with you, please? Okay, so. Because I want to keep with what you're saying. So I. I was invited to be, like, part of this mentoring group, and they're all super young, and they brought me in. And so I was like, this is gonna require caffeine. Like, I'm getting up early, you know, because they have questions about parenting, marriage, ministry, book writing, podcast, all those kind of things. And so I'm like, all right. And so I get up early, and one of the other people also gotten up early. And this is a super influential person. You would know her. I could tell you afterwards, a billionaire. And she sits down with me, and she starts asking me some questions, and then she looks at me and she said, if Jesus was sitting here with you and I and my friend who believed she's born in the wrong body, what would he say to her? And at first I was like, it's 6am he would say, get another cup of coffee. That's what he would say. But I was like, all right, I have this moment. And so I said, well, first of all, he'd look at your friend, and he would see her, and he would say, I love you. And I said, second, he would say, you're not a mistake. But the third thing that I believe, he would say, and as I was saying it right, what am I going to say? What am I going to say? I said, he would understand. And she goes, what do you mean he would understand? And I said, all right. I said, do you know who Jesus is? I said, do you know Jesus was the Son of God, Philippians tells us, who emptied himself of his divine privileges and identity and took off his divine form and put on flesh. That's what Philippians 2 tells us. I said, he became us. He became as the Son of man so we could become children of God. I said, so if anybody was ever uncomfortable in the human body, I bet Jesus was, because I said, you would even see him. Things like, I could call for a thousand angels. And I said, he knew what it was to be in divine form, and yet he took on us and all of the awkwardness and all of the challenges of our human anatomy. And I said, so you can bring this to him. I said, I have never felt like I was born in the wrong body. Sometimes I'm like, I feel like my body is wrong, but not the wrong body. But I said, jesus, if we know that according to Hebrews, that he is a high priest, that we can bring anything to and yet he's never sinned. So he can have empathy without it being toxic. He can have compassion without compromise. And so we bring. We need to position people. Not just tell them that the wrong, but position them to the one who will make everything right. And in scripture, you can even see what's going on. Like when you. You see the spot and it's speckled. What. What happened with, you know, Jacob, you know, his father in law keeps taking his. Taking his sheep. And so what does he do? He. He takes the wood and he makes spotted speckled. So that when the strong sheep came to eat and mate, they would see that. And then when the weak ones came, he would take it away. Well, they're feeding now on social media, and so they're constantly being said, you're not enough. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe this would look, this person's so happy. And there is a voyeuristic world right now. I told you that we used to live in Dallas, and people find this hard to believe, but there was a time when I was 24 and John was 25, and we went out with this really scary minister. I mean, I. I was working for Eli Lilly at the time. And John said, hey, this minister's like, where's your wife? And I was like, oh, I'm going to get in trouble. And he said he wants to. He wants to have breakfast with you. So this guy was always talking about demons in the Philippines. And I said, does I think I have demons? And I said, I told John, can you pray over me? Like, if we have any demons, let's just take care of. I don't want to do this in the restaurant. And so John was like, I don't think he's going to do that. I'm like, no, we're not taking any chances. So we go to this breakfast, and the guy talks to us for a while, and then he said, I see the hand of God on the two of you. And he says, I'm going to tell you what I've seen in the future. And in 1984, he told us that the day was going to come where men were going to marry men and women were going to marry women. And I thought, I don't think that's going to happen. And then he told us that a spirit of idolatry was going to invade America. He said, well. And he said, men will be emasculated. Then he said, that's gonna happen. He said, a spirit of idolatry is going to evade America through yoga. And I was like, whoa, What? I mean, yoga wasn't even a thing back then in 1984. And people were doing Jane Fonda and Jazzercise. Okay. And then he said a couple other things, and then he said something that we completely didn't understand. He said, a day is coming where people's lives will be controlled by a box they hold in their hand. Whoa. 1984. We thought he was senile. I mean, he was, like, in his 70s or 80s at the time. We thought, box.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But look at the phones.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Lives controlled by a box they hold in their hands. He said all of these things. But you know what is the most exciting thing? Ryan? He. He mapped out this degeneration of our nation. Yeah. But then he said afterwards there'd be one more outpouring and there'd be a revival coming to our nation. And so I feel like if we checked off all those box. There's a box in our hands. I mean, we checked up all of those, and now I believe that we are poised for a revival of that is sacred, that is holy, that is based on truth and not compromise. And I think. I think that in 2020, a lot of us fell prey not just to Covid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But to cowardice, because we were sitting home. And if you said this, that wasn't enough or that was too much, or you needed to weigh in on this, and you didn't do this. And I just remember coming to this place where I thought, what am I doing? I am playing to strangers. I am talking to trolls. I am bowing to a world I can hold in my hands. I'm not doing this anymore. And it shook me. And I feel like God is breaking off a spirit of the fear of man off of each of us. And like you mentioned, I do feel like when Charlie was assassinated, another layer scales came off people's eyes, and another layer of the fear of man came off of people.

[B]

Amen. So how do we get to that revival? Obviously, the Lord has to move, but how can we best prepare for that? And maybe let's start with the women first. What's coming to mind right now? Two of our good friends, Marzia Marizade and Mariam rostenpour, passed out 30,000 Bibles in the city of Tehran and were imprisoned for it. And miraculous stories, they eventually got released from the most notorious prison. Yeah. Yeah. So Miriam is actually our oldest son, Jack's godmother, so really close friends of ours. But the revival that's happening right now in Iran is being led by the women.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you were just sharing how a lot of women feel silenced and feel like. And even in your own story.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Before this podcast, you were sharing a little bit about that. What can women be doing to prepare themselves for the outpouring that God's about to bring?

[A]

Yeah. Well, first of all, read the Word. I just, you know, I listened to this interview somebody did with R.T. kendall, and they said, what would. R.T. kendall, you've been in the ministry for 70 years. What would you say to your young self? And he said, you know, I have some degrees. And he said, but if I could go back, I would not recommend seminary. He said, I would recommend reading the Bible and boldness in faith. Wow. And he said, I would preach the Word. He said, we need to preach the Word and we need to be bold. And so, again, I think women need to actually give themselves permission to learn. They need to. The older women are supposed to teach and train the younger women, and somehow we all lost that. Okay. So, like, they need to be connected with some older women who have done marriage the way they want to do it, parenting the way they want to do it, and, you know, maybe write books or ministry or just life. Just life. We. We've lost. There's been a generation gap, and that gap means that one generation lost the wisdom and the treasury of the last generation. So we definitely need some generational connections. But women need to read. They need to read the Word of God, and they need to. They need to. And people are going to probably get mad. They need to repent of partnering with culture. They need to repent of not liking the fact that they're women. They need to repent of any kind of affiliation with the Jezebel spirit or seduction or manipulation. Just. And I know a Jezebel spirit can affect men, too. It's not. I'm not saying, but I'm just talking to the women specifically and explain the Jezebel spirit. So a Jezebel spirit is. Well, I had an encounter with one. I don't know. I don't. I mean, you can edit this later if you need to. We're going for it. Okay. So my husband was a youth pastor, and I was. I had just had my second son. And for whatever reason, the executive pastor at this church wanted to fire John. And it was because John was having the youth pray every day, read their Bible, and let's just say that John was holding a higher standard for the youth than this man was living at home.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So there was. So I'm at the copy machine one day, and his wife comes up to me and she said, you husband's gonna get fired. Cause I sleep with the big guy here. And I'm like, wait, what just happened? I mean, we're in a church and I'm just standing there like, what just happened? And so I come home and I'm like, john, they're gonna fire you. And John said, they can't fire me. I was like, I think they can. He's like, they didn't hire me. He said, I'm not leaving until God tells me to leave. I'm like, you're leaving next week. And John's like, no, no, I'm not. And I said, all right, this is a toxic work environment. And, you know, I am Sicilian. And so I'm like, if my husband will not fight for himself, I'm gonna fight. So I get my little yellow legal pad and I start writing down all the instances, the things I know about this couple, how they've mistreated people, all these different things. Things I suspect. I write it all out and I'm like, I'm gonna meet with the pastor and I'm gonna deal with this. They cannot treat my husband like this. I'm, you know, and I'm like, matt, so, you know, when you have a child, you know, so my, my son was probably two months old, you will wake up wide awake and you'll be walking towards them before you even like, realize why you're up. And so I woke up like that one night and I looked and Austin was sound asleep in the cradle in my room. I'm. I felt the Holy Spirit say, get up and pray. So I go into our living room. We have absolutely no furniture. We're so poor. So I'm just walking in circles. We have no curtains, so the moonlight's coming through. I'm just walking in circle and I'm just praying and I'm. I'm calling out witchcraft. I'm like, she's a witch. And I tried to figure out where our house was. I could point like, I break your witchcraft. Just like, I'm mad, not too loud because I don't wake up my kids and my husband, but I'm going for it. And then I just like walking and I'm just praying. And all of a sudden I feel someone walk in the room. And I thought, oh, I woke up John. And I opened my eyes and I don't know how to explain. I mean, you've got high ceilings here. I had a two story for you. There was a 14 foot woman standing, standing in this space, she looked like a hologram, but this is before holograms even existed. She looked like a cross between Cleopatra and Amazon. And I looked at her and I thought, she's magnificent. She's strong. She's beautiful. But she's angry. And I realized we are warring against a Jezebel spirit. And I was like, what in the world? So, I mean, I'm like. It was like God gave me discerning of spirits. If she'd moved towards me, I would have screamed. But anyway, I just saw it, and it was just like, I was so in the spirit, praying. It didn't scare me. So I pray it goes away. I go to bed. I wake up the next morning, I'm like, what was that? And before I even got out of bed, I always tried to just listen to the Holy Spirit. And I said, what was that? Have I done something that has invited that into my home, into my life? And I hear, renounce any sympathy you have towards the spirit. And I. My grandmother was married like four times. My mother was married multiple. I was like, I renounce any sympathy I have towards the Jezebel spirit. I mean, I just said that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I said, but I'm not. I'm not in. He's. And he had me read the story. And about her. Her husband's pouting, and she writes a letter and she falsely accused somebody. And then, you know, she gets this vineyard that he wants for his vegetable garden. I'm like, I'm not trying to take anything. And I hear, no, but you wrote a letter. And he said, I'm doing a deep work in your husband, and you think you're rescuing. You're trying to control the outcome. He said, tear up the letter. So John comes in from prayer, and I tell him what's happened. Do you know there would never have been the book, the bait of Satan, because I would have gone in. My husband would probably been fired. But what happened was in the next couple weeks, that guy was fired. He had been embezzling, and everything they were doing in secret got caught. And this is what God told me. He said, there are demonic forces, and you should. You always submit to me. Resist the devil, and then he flees. He said, you cannot handle this in your personality, Lisa. This one's way too big for you. You have to handle it with humility and consecration and prayer. And it's. It's very much. You know, the kingdom of God is the opposite. You surrender, then you get power. You don't take power.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Yeah, you surrender. So, yeah, so that was for me. And I think every woman has a choice that she can be a boss, babe, she going to. Or is she going to be a daughter of Sarah? You know, what is she going to do? Is she going to love her husband? Is she going to respect her husband? Or is she going to only respect if she agrees with him? And that's what I did with my husband. I was like, listen, I'm making more money than you. I've had a child. I'm breastfeeding. You're working part time. I'm doing everything. And I'm all stressed out. And I'm in the shower one night, and again, I'm in my early 20s, mid-20s, and I'm in the shower and I'm all stressed out. And God said, you don't think John's a good head of the household, do you? And I said, I know he's not. He said, you think you can do it better? I said, I can do it better. And he said, I've made you the head of the household, Lisa. It's a yoke to you, but it's a mantle to John. Throw it off. And I was like, what? He was like, john has only known a mother and you are treating him like he is a child. Throw this thing off. And Ryan, all of a sudden I saw all these flashbacks of all the times I thought it was so sm. My husband's expense, why I had diminished him and demeaned him, criticized even how he prayed with me. And I just started weeping. And I went. Came out of the shower that night and I said, oh, my gosh, John, I am so sorry. I thought submission meant, if I agreed with you, I did it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if I didn't, I fought you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I said, well, you. Will you forgive me? I just want to be one again. And I said, I'll quit my job tomorrow. And John said, you don't need to quit your job, but you do need to quit thinking you're the source. And it was crazy where all of a sudden I had a piece that passed understanding. And I watched my husband go from a boy to a man when I started to be his wife and not his mother. And I think this generation of women don't know how to speak to the prince, so they speak to the fool. And if, you know, we want to have godly sons and godly husbands, we speak to the possibility, the man of God that they're growing into instead of nag, the one that we think is less than. Whoa.

[B]

So how do women speak to their husbands? Like, practically, If a woman's listening to this, a wife is listening to this and saying, I'll give a practical.

[A]

Okay, well, first of all, husbands and wives tend to speak to one another as though they are enemies rather than allies. So if you're an ally, you're on the same side of the table, and the problem's on the other side. If you're enemies, you're pushing something back and forth between two people. You did this well, you did this well, you did this. You'll never have a resolution. So when God started to talk to me, he said, you have become an expert in your husband's weaknesses, and you used to be an expert in his strengths. And I thought, well, I don't want to just talk about his strengths, because then he'll get, you know, like, he won't deal with the other things. He said. Strengths displace weaknesses. So I had to learn that when I talked to my husband, I had to talk to his strength rather than attack his weakness. So, for example, you defend your weak spaces. So, like, let's say maybe John came home from a trip and he was tired and he was harsh with the boys. You know, I could say something like, john, I know you are tired, and I know that is why you were short with, you know, one of the sons, because that is not the father you are like. So I would remind him of the higher things he has said to me in the past. So what can we do so that you don't feel overwhelmed? Or what can I do? Or, you know, what? You know, having conversations where I appeal to his higher rather than attack the lower. And again, like my husband, he loves words of affirmation. And I don't care about words of affirmation. I care about acts of service. And so I said, well, what would Jesus care about? Jesus wouldn't care about words of affirmation. He would care about acts of service. I tried to shame my husband into my love languages. I'm like, if you want to be loved by me, you need to act like me. And God said, everybody deserves to be loved how they can hear it, Lysa. And so I started on purpose to say things like, I love that you're a man of integrity. I love that, you know, And I started celebrating and speaking to him. And you know what, Ryan? I did it in front of my boys. Yeah, I did it. I say it in front of my voice. Look at your dad. He just gets cuter every single year. I don't know how I Haven't been pregnant six times. My boys would be like, oh, my gosh, mom, you guys are so weird. And I'd be like, no, your dad is just. He's amazing. And what happened was I was training my boys how they should be celebrated and protecting them from women that would manipulate them. And so just even by building up my husband in front of my boys. And he did the same thing for me. You know, John was always affirming to me, but I was like, I want you to clean out the garage with me. I don't want you to tell me I'm amazing. I want the garage cleaned out. But, you know, when your husband travels, you're not going to get that. So we had to be like, okay, we're going to start speaking the same language and then hearing him and then interpreting his heart. I think too many women think men don't feel things deeply because men don't know how to verbalize it. But often they feel it deeper than women because the women verbalize it and the men carry it. And so if we're going to be a guardian of our husband's heart, the heart of her husband, to safely trust in her, we need to learn how to speak the language of their heart. Instead of saying, just you speak to me, say, so what are you feeling? Or at the same time, and, like, hearing them and helping them actually share what they're thinking. Yeah, you know, my husband, I would say, why don't you ever talk to me like we're talking? I'd be like, no, you're not talking to me. You know, and then I had to learn, no, you are not framing this as a success for him. And he is speaking a completely different language. And you are embarrassing him because he's not doing it the way you want him to do it. So he likes winning, and if I don't set him up to win, he opts out. And I think too many wives are setting up their husbands to fail instead of setting them up to win. Does any of that feel practical?

[B]

It's incredibly practical. I think the question I would have or the question I get a lot of and the comments or DMS is, well, my. My husband's not a believer. Or my husband. How do I do that for my husband when he just won't receive it well? Or, you know, name. Name the, you know, not excuse, but name the explanation of why the husband isn't adding up. As a man of God in the household, what would you say to a wife who's saying, I would love to do the things you're talking about.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

My husband won't even receive it. And in fact, my husband's. He's just a slob or he's just lazy, or he just doesn't really care. He's out of it.

[A]

You know, there was a season in my life where my husband was gone, like, maybe home three days a month. And I found myself very resentful. And when he was home, he was tired, and he was. He was impatient. And this. You know, this would. I've been married 43 years. So, I mean, I'm. I'm going back at least 20 years. Okay, maybe 25. And I just started crying out to God. Do you see how he treats me? Do you see how he's not here for me? Do you see how my oldest son, Addison, is being difficult with me because I'm the one here? And John's not navigating this because he's gone. And, you know, I was just complaining, complaining. And I feel like my complaints were valid. And I heard back, tell me I'm enough for you. And I was like, wait, God, I don't want to say that. I don't want to say you're enough for me, because that means you're not changing John. And he's like, tell me I'm enough for you. And I was like, no, I'm not doing it. So, I mean, it took me. It took me a little while, and then I started to immerse myself in worship. And I went from you're enough for me to you're more than enough for me. And then I was able to stop looking at my husband as my source of life and start to be able to speak to my husband out of the source. You know, getting my source of life from God. And people imagine that John was like this. And again, John is a godly man. I'm not. And he would get up every single day and pray and read his Bible and stuff. But my boys will tell you they watched what John modeled, but the one who taught them was me. And I could have sat around and said, where's my husband? He's not being the spiritual head of the household. Well, sometimes the spiritual. The head of the household is, We're a house that serves God. I travel. I expect you to disciple our kids in alignment with our family core values when you're home. And that's. You know, I mean, my boys will tell you they had worship music. We talked about God. My boys would say that the thing they loved the most was I didn't Just tell them. No, I told them why.

[B]

Yeah. That's good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's really good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. Well, congratulations on 43 years.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

A lot of wisdom there. Yeah.

[A]

I think a lot of mistakes, but yes.

[B]

Yes. Well, hence the wisdom. I think a lot of women don't realize how insecure their husbands are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How insecure men are about their leadership. And one thing you said that. That really struck a chord with me is calling him higher, not pulling him down through nagging. And I think my wife does a phenomenal job of that. She'll come to me and she'll say, I know you to be this man. And there it was. Probably because you're tired. You fell short.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that sandwich or a conversation. Yes.

[A]

That maybe you overheard them doing on the phone.

[B]

You're like, totally.

[A]

That didn't sound like you.

[B]

Yeah. And I think. I think men inherently, they want to be elite. They want to be that. That. They want to be that dude, you know?

[A]

And so what they're created to be.

[B]

Right. Yeah. And I. I think that's why we're attracted to the David Goggins type personality. You know, David Goggins is. Yes. Okay. You do. Well, you have four boys too.

[A]

Of course I do.

[B]

Of course. So they're. We're attracted to that because there's something elite. There's something that we wonder.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We wonder, do we have that gear in us?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if our wives think we're the man, even though we're not acting like the man, if they're calling us to be that man, there's nothing better on planet Earth.

[A]

You're 100% my husband, and that's what I withheld from him. I thought, buddy, you're selling books. People are clapping for you everywhere you go when you come home. My job is to humble you. But, see, John did not care what anybody else was saying. He only cared what I saw.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And when I didn't celebrate him, then he either withdrew from me or he talked about himself. And I was like, I'm not gonna talk. But if you don't talk about your husband, they'll brag about themselves because they want you to acknowledge them. They want to be affirmed. You know, I wrote a book called Lioness Arising, and I. That principle that you're saying that men want. I saw this documentary with lions that was so profound. They had a challenge in South Africa where the lions were, of course, eating the cattle and eating the sheep. They're like, this is great. The lions are like, this is awesome. Thank you. Keep it coming. And so they captured these lions in this area, and they created a reserve. And because of that, a generation of lions were born in captivity. And when it came time to introduce them into the wild, I watched as one young male lion and his two lionesses. There were two sisters. They had attached an attachment to a fence, and they, like, removed, you know, the barrier so they could go in, and they refused. They were, like, afraid. And I watched as the alpha female lioness was pacing back and forth, back and forth across what had been that barrier, when all of a sudden, because the female lioness does the hunting, they had put an impala or something downwind, and she just. Her hunger was. She was like, I can't. Her hunger exceeded her hesitation. She leaps across the line. She looks at her sister, her sister leaps across the line, and it's crazy. The two lionesses look back at the lion, and he's like, no, I'm not moving. And I joke around and say, he's like, you guys got this. And so they go and they find this dead animal that the rangers had put out, and they do the most interesting thing. Rather than eat it, they drag it all the way back to the hesitant lion, giving him the first bite, because they were honoring the lion he one day would be instead of the lion he was in that moment. And so I think we can make choices with our husbands and with our sons to honor who they one day will be rather than dishonor who they are in that moment. And I thought, if lions can figure this out, we certainly can figure it out. But I always look at this, I think there's no creature that makes a man prouder to be a male than a lion, and there's no creature that makes me prouder when I studied them to be a female than the lioness. It's just crazy how they. They interact with one another. It's really quite fascinating. And they're, you know, we're talking about gender. They are one of the only mammals that is obviously sexually dimorphosis, because you can tell right away because the main. Which one is the male.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So it's pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah, pretty cool. I want to go back to the Jezebel spirit.

[A]

Okay, let's go.

[B]

You're like, should we. I'm like, we go here on this podcast.

[A]

Go there.

[B]

Yeah. We've had all the witches and Satanists on thing, so let's. We make it rain. But, yeah, because I'm still kind of confused on what that is. But What I will say is there's been a couple posts I've made on social media where I've been like, whoa, I did not expect to get attacked like that.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Typically when I address women, and maybe it's just because I'm a dude addressing women, but there was one post I made where I. I said I talked about how women dress at the gym.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that, to me, I'm like. That just seemed obvious. Like, it's hard for me to go to the gym now where I'm like, it's not. That's like, not okay anymore. Like what? Like the. The leggings and the.

[A]

The crop tops, and it's like you see everything. Yeah, Right.

[B]

And so. But the attack that happened, and I wasn't just addressing women there. I was dressing men. I kind of gave an example for both sides. And then when I've talked to Christian wives and, you know, my content, I mean, it's like, a lot towards me.

[A]

You're very gracious.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah. But it's a lot towards men. And then when I do one towards wives and I try to call them higher, it's like, whoa. Is that what you're talking about?

[A]

Well, I think it's all. So, you know, there's other. Other names that would come by. But, I mean, you even. You even see it in the Book of Revelation. You see a reference to Jezebel, and it's a. It's a. It's a ruling spirit. It's a high thing. But it's seduction, it's manipulation, it's greed. It's combined. So, like, some people say, oh, it's Astra. Or, you know, like, they'll. They'll have a different name for it. But, you know, it's interesting what you said. I remember I got attacked, too. I wrote a book a long time ago called Kiss the Girls and made them cry. And I made the comment that if you want to be treated a certain way, don't dress cheap if you want to be treated well, because it's sending a message that you can be thrown away when you're done with. And I also made the comment that if you want a man to listen to you for your intelligence, don't overwhelm him with your cleavage. And you would have thought, I mean, these young girls came after me. You legalistic. It's not my fault if he's looking at my boobs. I'm like, what in the world? Yeah, you know, like, I. And again, I have been accused of being immodest People, I guess, apparently my arms are just too much for some people. But, I mean, most of the things that I do are women's meetings and it's hot. But anyway, so I understand that there can be an oppressive legalistic. But when I, like, even getting on the airplane today I was walking through the airport, there are women that are wearing leggings, and I feel like I'm. I'm experiencing their entire backside.

[B]

It's like, butt crack. Leggings.

[A]

It's butt crack and it's cellulite. I feel like I should take a picture and say, just in case you're wondering, this is what this looks like from the backside. And, you know, like, I'm. If I'm gonna wear leggings, I'm gonna wear something that covers my butt. And to be honest with you, I'm. You know, I'm 65. I don't really. My husband probably wishes I wore leggings around the house, but I don't. But they're the right thing. In. In, like, is a bathing suit if you're at the beach, but not thongs. Like, literally. I'll tell you something that I did recently, as a matter of fact. I've got a reputation now. We were at a family beach. It's like a private community. It's a family beach in Florida. And it said family friendly bathing attires. And a bunch of young college kids were there, and these girls were in thongs. And all the families just started moving away. Well, I have a grandson, and I don't, like, I do not want my granddaughter, my grandson, my husband. I don't wanna be uncomfortable because somebody's dishonoring what's going on. And so I call the number and I'm like, hey, there's a bunch of college kids. And they're not just laying quietly. They're up, gyrating, grabbing their butt, cussing, drinking beer. And I know this is against your policy. So four women, you know, come down and they're like, girls, you put on the COVID up or, you know, or whatever, and they walk off. And I had gone down to another beach and I came back and I caught the tail end of this girl, starts saying f you and grabs her butt and does a lap. And I'm like, you. You just. Now. Now you're gonna face me. And so I just walk. I walk. I walk over to the guys. I walk over to the other girls that are still laying there. I said, you guys, members here, they're like, no, ma'. Am. No, ma'.

[B]

Am.

[A]

I'm like, who are you here with? And they're like. I said, okay, what's his name? So I walk over, I'm like, sir. And it was in the south, thank God. So I'm like, walking. I'm like, what's your name? And he told me. And I said, those girls your guests? And I said, yeah. And I said, they're completely out of control. I said, I suggest you get them taken care of. I said, I'm turning your name in to whoever the person was at the time. And they were like, yes, ma'. Am. Yes, ma'. Am. And I was like, I won't have my grandkids exposed to that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, man.

[A]

I mean, everybody was like, oh, Lisa's the thong patrol. I'm like, yeah, I am. Yeah, I am. If you want to be on an all adult resort and act like that, I still think it's disrespectful, but I'm not. I'm not subjecting my grandkids to that. That is not beautiful. And I've even told. I've told young girls, and I don't know if this makes sense, but I've told young girls when. When you are in a relationship, you know, so let's say sec. Let's say a sexual relationship with your husband. I said, the Bible first of all says, do not arouse or awaken before it's time. And when you are flaunting yourself in inappropriate ways, you are arousing lust. Okay? And. But I said, in a marriage, it never says that sex is wrong. It just says it's not time. So Christians say it's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong. And then all of a sudden, magic. It's right. And that's very confusing.

[B]

Right? It's.

[A]

It's just not time. That's what God said. It's not time. So I always tell them, you want to awaken in the realm of love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I said, and. And intimacy and beauty. I said, because what you want to maintain is a sexual legacy that you can begin in your 20s, but maintain in your 70s. And I said, because you're probably not going to be able to carry off some of the things in your 70s that you did in your 20s. So I said, you want to awaken. And I said, you want to awaken in the realm of intimacy, not in the real lust. Because lust demands and takes and intimacy gifts. And we have a culture right now that is very take driven.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What will you do for me? Whereas in our marriage, it is very much a Gift, not a take.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And it's a very. So if I understand I'm giving myself, then I'm going to be very respectful of other people. And I'm sorry they did that. They're going to get mad. I have some people come up to me saying I have toxic purity culture vibes or whatever, which is. Yeah. I was like, oh, that's right. That's right. Purity's toxic. That. Thank you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I can see those two words.

[B]

But all the best things are toxic. Masculinity is toxic. Purity is toxic.

[A]

Well, and I guess what they. And I felt bad for them because they launched a new book and they pulled a quote. They pulled a quote from a book I had written in 2003. And I'm like, you.

[B]

Because I said you were around in 2003, you'd realize that that was okay back then.

[A]

Well, I said. Well, I also said. They're saying. I didn't say. You know, I said, I've heard that they're saying when you sleep with somebody, you don't sleep with just them, but you sleep with the DNA of other people they've slept with. Yeah. And she was like, fact check, Fact check. She's like, this is toxic purity. So I didn't. What happened. She. She has me blocked, so somebody had to send it to me. And I was like, oh, wow. The worst thing is that people would limit how many sexual partners they had.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I'm so toxic.

[B]

But, yeah, right, right. Yeah.

[A]

And I have a dark sexual past and. And I experience the. The forgiveness and the mercy of God. So I could go from lust to intimacy. And I don't want people to awaken it in the wrong realm, because then you have to put it back to sleep and awaken in a. In a realm where it's not a nightmare and it's a dream.

[B]

Amen. Amen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think the reason why I get so frustrated going to the gym or going to the beach is because, yes, I do have a past where I was addicted to pornography, and I'm free from that. I'm pure from that. And so for me to go to a place that I. Those are like, two of my favorite places, the beach and the gym, and to have those now be places where are unsafe for me as a man who's trying to walk in purity, as a man who's married and trying to have a beautiful sex life in marriage devoid of lust outside of that marriage, that's tough for me. And so I think if I can speak to the Sisters in Christ, it is a blessing. Your modesty is a blessing to the brothers in Christ. And trust me, I have young men constantly asking me, how do I get clean from pornography? I'm stuck. And these are men of God. These are of a high caliber, and they're trapped in it. And I think part of the reason is because we're now inundated by it sexually. And, and God has designed sex for marriage. And it's good. Like you said, it's not a bad. Sex is not bad. It's just not time yet. And I, I think as the, the worst thing to do is to lust after your sister. Right. And if we're, if we're in the body, if we're family together, then we don't want to be doing that. And so it is incredibly helpful.

[A]

And it has a spirit attached to it.

[B]

Yeah, let's get back to that.

[A]

No. Okay, so, true story. My, My parents, my dad never had like Playboy or anything like that in the house. But my mom had a book that somebody had given her, lent her or something, and I was babysitting my brother and my. The big deal was I got to sleep in their bedroom. I got to sleep in their bedroom when I got home and I got to watch tv. Those. This was back when you didn't have, you know, like there was hardly like tiny TV on top of a dresser.

[B]

Now two year olds got the TVs.

[A]

Yes, exactly. And so I just remember I was watching a. All of a sudden I just kept looking at this one particular drawer and I thought, I need to open that drawer. And I walk over and I open the drawer and I look in the drawer and all I see is like folded clothes. And I close it. And then I hear, no, open the drawer again. Look under that pile. And I look under the pile and I find a book. And it's pornographic. And of course, my personality. The next day I'm like, what the heck are you guys doing to my parents? I'm like, why do you have this? It has a calling voice. Yeah, it has a calling voice.

[B]

And if you think the demon are.

[A]

You, the pornography has a demon attached to it that has a calling voice. And you think you can hide it in your house, It'll call to your children. And when we watch things on television, like if you're flipping through the channels and you see something sexual, you'll feel immediately violated. And even if you keep flipping, the only thing you will fight to forget is that or occultic things. And I really believe that the demonic forces are Attempting in home invasions through television. Whether what they were watching or the songs. Songs are pornographic now. I mean, some of the stuff that people are singing and they're echoing, they don't even know what they're saying. Like, my husband doesn't ever hear lyrics. He'll only hear music. And sometimes I'll be, honey, that's not a good one. Like, we can't. We can't listen. You know, and it might even be something from the 70s. I'm like, no, what's wrong with it? Yeah. He's like, I like the music. No, no, no, no. Because I said, I hear the word words. You know, you might only hear the music. I hear the words. So we have to guard. And it's not. It's not a. We're not hiding. We're guarding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And guarding means that you're. Something is a treasure and you want to protect it. You want to. You want your mind to not be violated by imagery that wars against intimacy, wars against your freedom, wars against your marriage, wars against, you know, that, like, putting spirits of fear with violence and twisted stuff. I hate it when we're near Halloween. They always show all this demonic stuff. And you just, like, turn the channels as fast because it feels like a violation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I had an exorcist tell me that if you're flipping through the channels and you keep going, it does not invite the spirit in. But if you go back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you entertain it, you have some kind of agreement with it. It uses it as a leader.

[B]

You mean the demonic commercials?

[A]

Demonic commercials. Demonic shows, demonic imagery. It will use it as an opportunity to try to invade. Now, of course, we use our authority, but, see, people don't realize this. God is not the legalist. Satan is the legalist. And anytime you transgress, he's like, awesome. I have a breach. I have legal grounds. And then you have to use your authority. And you. You can use the name of Jesus. But too many people, they're like, oh, there's, you know, there's more demonic attack. No, we have more. We have given more access. We have walked in more agreement. We have. We have partnered with things we should not partner with. We've laughed at things that aren't funny. We've been entertained. I think in 20, 20, people got entertained and they lost their edge in the spirit. You know, I know my husband and I had never, like, sat down and watched something that had seasons and episodes, and every single night we were, like, watching Monk, and then we watched Heartland, and we just kept watching and all of a sudden, entertainment became a right, not just something we did occasionally. And it dulls you in the spirit. And it's not a salvation issue, it's an authority issue.

[B]

Totally. You know, it's so interesting. I've talked to a lot of young men who started looking at porn and they all say the same thing. The first time I looked at it, I got nervous, my heart started racing. There's almost something a little scary about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you keep going back to it and you get desensitized and desensitized and desensitized more and more and more. You have to do more and more and more and more. And there's something exciting because it's a little scary because you're not supposed to be viewing that. So you're illegally accessing something that was intended for marriage. You're trading authentic intimacy for imagery. But what you behold, you become. And we don't realize that it's actually searing our prefrontal cortex, which is your limbic system, which is your decision making center. And so it's doing so much harm. And that's, that's the enemy's intent from the beginning. Again, he's not creating, he's twisting. He's taking what is good, what is beautiful, what is created for you to have this robust sex life and marriage. And he's saying, let's cheapen this, let's commodify this. And now like, like we're talking about, you can't, you can't flip on the tv, you can't go to the beach, you can't go to the gym without it being right there in your face.

[A]

Yep. We need to take it back.

[B]

We gotta take it back.

[A]

We need to take it back because it is, it is. Our children deserve better. And, and you know, there's, there's beautiful statues all over Italy, and a lot of them are naked, but they're not sexual. And so there's anatomy, but then there's sexual stuff and it's, it's different. And in the gym, it's like, I, my husband's always like, you come with me to work out. I'm like, no, I just press. I don't work out. John works out. But. But yeah, there's a lot of stuff that, that I don't want to see and I don't think it should be seen. And, and again, when we are seeing something that we're not supposed to see, it's arousing the sin nature because it's that legalism. I know I shouldn't see it, but I just want to see it. But then I, you know, and so many, so many kids are getting introduced to porn so early and anytime I. You can usually see like a shadow on somebody's face and then when, when they' see a clearing in their eyes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I mean, even talking about kind of the bait of Satan and talking about gender and talking about what, what the enemy's doing right now is he's, he's trading what is the most pure thing on the planet for what is the most disgusting thing on the planet. And he's using semantics to do it. So, you know, you can kill your, your baby in the name of women's rights. You can, you're no longer a porn star, you're a sex worker. And that's actually a beautiful thing. And so it's like we're, we've got all this creator. Yeah, you're a content creator, you know, and now it's been commodified where. No, you're an only fans creator. This is empowering for women. What is your take on that? As someone, like you said, you, you were getting these prophetic words back in the 80s of like, there's no way that's going to happen now. How have you seen the culture devolve? And then almost getting back to your book, the fight for female, like, what are you seeing for women right now? How can women be standing in the gap for men? How can we be men be standing in the gap for women? What's happening spiritually in our culture?

[A]

Well, that's a lot.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot. Well, going back to the whole idea of, you know, the semantics and changing the words, wouldn't you control the language, you control the thought. And you know, if anybody has read, you know, 1984 or Brave New World, they understand that when you pervert the language, then you pervert thought. So we know that Psalms says perversity of thought leads to perversity of language, which leads to perversity of actions, which leads to perverse ways. And that's where we are. Like, it just keeps going in that kind of direction. And people don't inhabit lands as much as they inhabit languages. So like, even, like we have an app. So if we have an app and we're broadcasting in Farsi, it's going to go everywhere. Somebody that speaks Farsi is living, not just Iran, anywhere, you know, so the United States or wherever that. So we have got to take back the Language. Because God said, we know in the Tower of Babel. He said, if they are all in one place and they speak the same language, nothing will be impossible to them. And so God wants to unite his people with his language. So you're talking about, you know, my body, my choice, abortion, healthcare. You know, it's interesting. If we are children of God, that shouldn't even be a conversation. The Bible is so clear that you. You present your body, a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God. It actually says, when Paul's talking to the Corinthian Church, he said, you are not your own. You were bought with a price, so honor God with your body. I'm not my own, so it's not my body, my choice anymore. It's his body. You know, I'm part of that temple, so I don't have the right to do whatever I want with my body. That's dualism. That's saying, God's over here, my body's over here. They're two separate things. No, it's all, we're spirit, soul and body. We are not just body running around and then have a spirit over here. And so part of that is people don't know the Word. And so we need to unite under the language of the word of God. You know, God said that they would be one, and he sanctified them in truth. And they said, your word is truth. John 17. That is the prayer that nobody has answered for Jesus yet. We're trying to do that. We're like Jesus. We're trying to be that answer, to be one. One doesn't mean same. One means united. So we need to be united but not compromise, united. So first of all, word of God needs to be given the ultimate authority in our life. Period. Period. And nobody should be doing. Well, my spirit feels this, but I mean, John and I were talking about this young girl that said, I never felt the presence of God more than when I kissed another woman. And I was like, no, no. And she said, my emotional connection is higher than the Word. No, it's not. No. You know, the Word is a light to our path. We can't even walk. We will walk in darkness without the Word. We will trip and fall if we continue to not have the Word.

[B]

So the word feelings fluctuate and your heart's deceitful and wicked.

[A]

Well, see now, okay, so I would argue about the heart being deceitful and wicked. Okay, okay. So the heart was deceitful and wicked. We know that. Okay, but what does God say in Ezekiel? He says, I'm going to take out your heart of stone, and I'm going to give you a new heart. A new heart. And even with Jeremiah where it says the heart is deceptive and wicked, who can tame it? And then God, very next verse says, I, God, search the heart and mind. So God's like, you guys have a problem. Your heart is deceitful. And I'm going to actually have to do a heart transplant. I'm going to take out your heart of stone that feels nothing, and I'm going to put it in a heart of flesh. I don't know about you, but the moment I was born again, all of a sudden I was grieved by things I wasn't grieved by before because I had a new heart. You know, it wasn't like a new mind, that my mind hadn't been renewed yet. I was born again for two hours. And I was like, God, stay out here. I'm going to dump some stuff out of my room. I didn't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. I didn't want to. I don't even know if I knew what that was, but I wanted to honor God. I've been born again. We get a new heart. It's not my body that gets born again, it's my heart. So I think we need to be careful because it was. And that's why we had an impossible situation, which is why God sent His Son to give us. He said, not only does he give us a new heart, he said, he gives us his own Holy Spirit. Think about that. So we have the Spirit and we have the Word and we have God's heart. Like he gives us a new heart, a tender heart, a heart of flesh. So that, that's. I get it. I mean, I think all these people out here doing New Age stuff. Yes. And they say, trust your heart. No, you cannot trust your unregenerated, fallen, greedy, whatever it is, perverse heart. You cannot trust that. But when you get born again, that's where God talks to us. He talks to us. Like, you'll feel like, I don't. I don't feel right about that. Yeah, And I used to be okay with that. So I think that we need to be careful because we're letting the New Age people hijack some of the stuff that actually was. Was some of Jesus's language, You know, that David was a man after his heart. Like, you know, like all these kind of things. Like we, we've, you know, they're manifesting, you know, their stuff. Well, we know for this purpose was the Son of God manifest. And that was to destroy the works of the Evil One, not to get stuff for myself. It's all perverse. Again, it goes back to what you said. So then again. So if we know the word, we need to position ourselves in submission to the word. And the husband is the head of the household. And that doesn't mean he's superior. It means that's his role and we honor that role. And submission, I believe submission means sub, means under mission, means assignment. I submit to my husband because we are under assignment together. And our assignment together is to build a healthy marriage and to build a healthy family. And I submit to John because he has decided he's going to love me like Christ loves the church. And we're in a covenant relationship. Not a contract, a covenant which means God is involved. It's a threefold court. Not a two, not two people on a contract. It's a threefold cord. And so we're both submitted to God. And God's like, John is the head, you're the heart. And so to me, the heart is a noble entrustment. I don't want to be the head. I don't want to be the protector. I want to be the nurturer. I want to be the guardian of the heart. I want to be the one that makes a relational equity and connection. So I think as women, we need to say, I value that. I'm not going to devalue that. I'm not going to try to grasp at the man's position. I mean, you know, we know God said, your desire is going to be for your husband and he's going to rule over you. That was not necessarily. God didn't want the man ruling over the woman. He wanted the man to act like Christ. And Christ lays down his life for the church, but he doesn't rule over the church. The church has to make a decision, to submit to everybody.

[B]

Him.

[A]

So my husband leads. I gotta choose to follow.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

He doesn't beat me. He doesn't. You know, he's like, this is what we're doing. And I have a choice. I'm gonna either go on mission with him and submit, or I'm gonna fight him. And if I want to be, I've. I've. I've watched and people are gonna get mad about this. I've watched my. My husband make a bad decision. But because we are in agreement, it turned out okay. Whoa. Or we learned an amazing lesson from it and it was redeemed. His very first book contract. I told him, don't sign it. Don't sign it, don't sign it. And we ended up losing so much money, and all my kids were throwing up. He was throwing up. And I was like, don't do it. Don't do it. But the guy kept flattering him, and it was kind of a hybrid thing, ended up costing us a ton of money. And then he was like, I should have listened. And I was like, that's okay. I told you what I thought. But you said, we're doing. I went with you. And then we went and met with the publisher, and the publisher started talking to John and asked him what he was preaching on. And John talked to him about the bait of Satan. And that that book, that the failure became the setup for John's most popular book.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. So. So if I'm hearing you right, you're saying because you were in proper order.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because you were in godly order, submitting to your husband.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even though you were right on paper, God still chose to bless the order you were walking in.

[A]

Because we're united. Because where there's unity, God commands a blessing. Where there's disunity and chaos, nothing goes forward. Okay. And then this doesn't have to be hard when you're talking about the practicals, because if we can't practice. So I got to speak at a cultural summit called Think it's amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was speaking, and there was a psychoanalyst data specialist there speaking as well. And he was fascinating, and he's from Belgium. And so I decided to interview him. And I was talking to him, and he was talking about how his country had been overrun with totalitarianism. And I said, all right. And it was pre election. And he said, now your country is poised at a threshold. And he said, but let me tell you what justifies totalitarianism? I said, okay, what? He said, violence. And I said, all right. He said, and protested. These things justify totalitarian. It forces the hand. And I said, okay. I said, so how do we. How do we change it? How do we change it? And he said, and this is my memory of it. Constant, clear, courageous conversations. And this guy wasn't even a Christian. And we hung up. And I thought, that is how the early church grew. They went from house to house, they shared meals, and they talked. We don't talk. People argue with people on social media while they're sitting on the toilet. I mean, people are not doing this, Ryan. And if we can do more of this, then we will See the spirit of God, like, save our neighbors. I believe that people are ready to hear, and I know that's what Turning Point was, trying to do have conversations. But it's. And it looks like that's a dangerous thing, but it is the most effective thing, having a conversation and telling people who Jesus is to you, what he's done in your marriage, what he's done with your children, what he's done and talking to people. Marriages are hurting right now, and people are like, how. How did you guys stay, you know, in love? Or how do you. You just talk to him and it doesn't have to be hard. One of the top things you can do to raise children who are secure is to eat dinner as a family. It's not like, tell them they're amazing people every single day, because people that think they're amazing tend to be selfish. You need to actually have dinner as a family every single day. These are not hard things, but we need to be consistent.

[B]

Amen. This is. This was fire. This was good. Wow. There was so, so much wisdom here. So many nuggets. How could we be praying for you?

[A]

Well, you know, I am really believing that I will continue to have a heart for the younger generations, and I still. You know, I still get to speak into them, that I will do it with clarity, that I will do it with courage, that I will do it with kindness, and that I will always have a prophetic edge where I will not be overwhelmed by the problem in front of me, but I will see the promise in the distance. Whoa.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would appreciate that.

[B]

Absolutely. Well, let me pray for you now. And then. Would you close us in prayer? Would you. Would you pray that same thing over the listener?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because I'm believing that God is raising up a generation. You know, after Charlie Kirk, it seemed like everyone got really riled up and really fired up to. To speak with clarity, encourage, and kindness like you're talking about. And I think a lot of people out there are wondering, like, well, I don't. I don't have a lot of followers, and I don't have a big stage or a big trip.

[A]

Start small and believe big. You just start. Yeah.

[B]

Would you commission them to that?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Let me pray for. Pray over you. And, guys, as you're listening here, would you pray the same thing over Lisa with me? And then would you even just, like, send them out? Do that. That'd be great.

[A]

I will talk directly to the camera and do it.

[B]

Let's go. Beautiful, Jesus. Thank you for Lisa. Thank you for the voice that you've given her to this generation. I pray for more favor with the younger audiences, with the younger generation, with a generation that is seeing revival right now, but is also very confused and are needing older men and women to speak into their lives with that courageous voice, with that clarity, with. Not with. Without bending the knee, without doing the semantical games where we take truth and twisted a corner turn. Lord, thank you that Lisa is already doing that. But I pray for. For more opportunity. I pray for more ears to hear your words through her, Lord. I pray that you would open the right doors and close the wrong ones. I pray for her and John to be given an even greater mantle. I pray that they would encounter you more clearly in the middle of that, Lord, that you would give them prophetic insight to see what you're doing in this culture and to see where you want to take them. I pray a blessing over the Bevere family. Lord, would you protect them? Would you guard them? Would you. Would you keep them? Would you hold them, Lord, and would you. Would you burn inside of them this fire? And would you give each of them a specific lane that they're so clear that they need to. To drive in? Lord and God, we trust you and we love you, and we're just so thankful for Lisa and her ministry.

[A]

Thank you, Father. I just thank you for every young person. Father, I thank you that they're going to see up close what other generations only saw in the distance. I thank you for the courage to speak out loud and with great clarity what other generations only dare to whisper. I thank you that you give them ears to hear what your spirit is saying. I think that they'll reach out and touch with their hands what other generations only handled in prayer. Father, I think this is a generation for signs and wonders and miracles. They are not for death and destruction. And I see speak to the sons and I speak to the daughters. And I give you full permission to be bold and to be strong and to just be astounding, to step into the place where you just step out in faith. You do not have to have a big platform because you serve a big God. So start small, but believe big. I believe that God's hand is on your generation for signs and. And wonders and miracles, not for death and destruction. And I believe that there's going to be songs and there's going to be books and there's going to be restoration coming out of your generation. After we come out of a hard season. I believe the art is going to be reborn and it's going to bring back a revelation of a good God, of an eternal God, of divine order and beauty and truth. In Jesus name, amen.

[B]

Amen. Lisa, thank you. This was incredible. Thank you so much for being here.

[A]

My privilege.

[B]

Awesome. And guys, thank you for tuning into the Jesus People podcast. Check out the book, the Fight for Female. Go get the book and we will see you guys next week.