← Jesus People Podcast
Jesus People Podcast
Persecution is a silencer with David Platt | The Jesus People Podcast Episode 49
01:00:39
Loading summary
Transcript71 lines
- [00:00]
Ryan Miller
If we're going to pick up our cross and follow him, we need to understand what happened on crosses, you know what I mean? And I think we can learn so much from our Nigerian brothers and sisters who go back to the churches that were just burned down and have a worship service anyway, even though they could be taken out like that.
- [00:36]
Guys, welcome to the Jesus People Podcast. We have the honor of having David Platt on the podcast. I feel like I made it now, David, like, this is. This to me, is like, Jesus, you're so kind. You're so good that I get to have a guy like David Platt on. So it's an honor, bro.
- [00:53]
David Platt
The honor's mine. That's. That's. That's the beauty, right? Like, yeah, just. Yeah, you hear about somebody because it's likewise for me. Haven't heard about God's grace in you. And then you finally get to interact with that person, and it's like, man, I love being a part of the body of Christ where there's this unique instant fellowship we have in the body. Yeah. So, anyway, yeah, bro, it's great to be here.
- [01:19]
Ryan Miller
Yeah. Yeah. Same man. Yeah. I was. I was telling David before we started recording that Radical had changed my life. Back in the day. It was. It was like radical and crazy love. I'm sure you get that comp all the time. But, like, those two books came out like, it was like the Lord was doing something in that season where he was rallying his soldiers to just put it all on the altar and say, like, I'm no longer living this lukewarm life and I'm. I'm going all in. And it feels like, to me that you guys paved the path for what I'm seeing now, which I'm seeing revival. I'm sure you are as well. Like, I'm sure your church was flooded the last three years, few weeks after the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And it just feels like the soil has been tilled by. By people like you who have come before for a season like this, for a moment like this. Where we're now seeing Gen Z is the most churched generation, like, they are falling in love with Jesus. And we're seeing revival, and the gospel is going out to the nations, and it's just pretty cool to see. And I just. I want to stop and acknowledge that because you obviously didn't know what that book would do outside of, you know, being obedient to what the Lord had told you to do. And I want to talk about. You have another book coming up right here. I want to. I want to get into that, but I just want to acknowledge that you are, like, one of the titans of the kingdom of God who has been faithful and gone before this generation and really carved the path and paved the way for. For men like me to be loving husbands and fathers and to get up every morning and to read the word of God and to fall in love with Jesus more and to not bend the knee to the culture. And so I'm just really grateful for your ministry and your. Your faithful years and just want to encourage you, as I'm sure so many do, that it's changed my life. And so I'm just really grateful to get to know you now, bro.
- [03:14]
David Platt
Yeah, well, I mean, that's all. Obviously, any. Anything good in there is. Is God's grace. And I. It's so.
- [03:23]
Yeah, it's really overwhelming to think about God's grace. I was in Psalm 116 yesterday, verse seven, Return, O my soul, to your rest, for the Lord has dealt bountifully with you. And it was so good. Amidst turmoil, amidst challenges, struggles, like return to rest because of God's bountiful grace. And even, Even you talking about, yeah, radical and crazy Love. Like, I remember. Remember when my wife read Crazy Love, she was like, did you. Did you copy Francis? Like, did you Re. Like, what? And I was like, babe, I've not read Crazy Love yet. And so. But it just kind of showed. And I think you put it this way, like, God was doing something, and neither of us, we were just saying what a lot of people were thinking. Like, this comfortable Christian spin on the American dream really doesn't square with Jesus and his words. And, and so, and the fact that, yeah, I, I wrote that book. I thought, like, my mom and a few people at our church would read it. And, and that was kind of the whole purpose was just to write it for our church family at the time where I was pastoring. And, and then it. Yeah, it got into some different hands, and then a lot more people read it, but it just. Yeah, it's a picture. And then all the way to fast forward, like, what you're saying in ways that only God can do. And, and, and I hope. I hope that, yes, next generation, let's fuel zeal for God's word. Let's fuel, like, desire to truly follow Jesus, not according to the culture around us, not according to the church culture around us, but according to who he is and what he said. Because this is where we trust. This is where life is found.
- [05:14]
Ryan Miller
Yeah, man, it's so good. Yeah, it's really cool to see what's happening right now with the younger generation. I have a, a unique window because I'm like the old guy, I'm like the old influencer, you know, like in my mid-30s. And I was about to say, how.
- [05:30]
David Platt
Old are you, bro? Because if you're the old man, I'm like ancient.
- [05:34]
Ryan Miller
Well, you look great, dude. But, but, but it, it's, it's really sweet to see like these 20 year olds, these 21 year olds, 22 year olds that are reaching billions, like with a B. And, and then you, you get to know them and you're like, you watch them get up early and just like get on their faces before the Lord and you're like, okay, this is not a show. Like this is, this is communing before you communicate and this is like deep, deep abiding. And, and I, I feel like I'm being mentored by a lot of these 21 year old kids because that zeal that you talked about, there's this fire, like when you first meet Jesus and you're just like so fired up. I remember I was at Biola University for a youth camp and I encountered the love of the Lord for really the first authentic real time. And I just remember running. I couldn't, I just didn't know what to do with it. I started running. And I think that that's what you were talking about.
- [06:36]
With, you know, you and Francis back in the day, like writing these books, just creating this hunger and this desire for holiness and purity. And now we're seeing that now in, you know, a different way, in a, Well, I guess not a different way, but through a different medium, through social media and through these, these now young leaders that are the leaders that are the, the faces that people are following.
- [06:59]
So it's, it's, it's pretty cool to see that, that God is, He's always moving, you know, like he, he, his spirit's just going to move through whoever, whoever raises their hand, you know.
- [07:11]
David Platt
Well, you know, there's a couple things are coming to my mind along those lines. One is that there, I'm thinking about a time, it was actually Francis and I were together not long ago with, and it was, it was with like 19, 20, 21 year olds. And man, when, and when he was speaking, when I was speaking, like, it wasn't like people were sitting in there with their arms crossed just like, okay, what do you got for me? Like they were like on the edge of their seats with their Bibles. Open and I mean at one point we're like even standing on their seats like, just like worshiping in response to the word. It was so, it was just, it was awesome. And so that's what I think about God. Do that. And. But the, and the beauty is I've not just seen that among yeah. Students in the culture where I live at the last year I've been in multiple settings in Myanmar, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Indonesia where 18 to 30 year olds doing the. With the same zeal. Like I just think about this one room in Bangladesh.
- [08:23]
Ryan Miller
I.
- [08:23]
David Platt
A relatively small room. They said they were going to be 500 people in there. And I was like, there's no chance There could be 500 people in there. But sure enough, like they crammed in and they're just all over the room for hours, for days, all day long, just sitting there on the floor with their Bibles open and then worshiping, praying and saying we want to make the gospel known among people who've never heard it, no matter what that costs with our lives. So yes, again, kind of going back to what we were talking about to be a part of what God's doing in the body of Christ and specifically, specifically in the next generation in a first Timothy 4 kind of way where, where there are yes, brothers and sisters who are setting the example and life and speech and love and faith and purity. So may it be so in a Psalm 78 way. Let's be just intentional to pour pass on the good news of who God is, what God has done to the next generation in ways that they are passing it on to your point, in ways through means that God's provided in this time and place that weren't there 10 years ago or 20 years ago. And what a time to be alive with all the ways God's provided for us to be a part of spreading his love. So anyway, yeah, you mentioned a few.
- [09:39]
Ryan Miller
Persecuted nations there and.
- [09:43]
You know, we as America, I feel like really experienced our first martyrdom in the last month with Charlie Kirk and a man who stood for biblical values and biblical principles and was sharing the gospel regularly in dark places. And it's lit this fire in a lot of people I know even just talking to a lot of like higher profile Christian people and they're like, I'm done, like I'm done being silent and, and they're ready to go all in publicly and not just, you know, try to do the, the thing behind the Christian things behind the scenes. But now they're like laying it all out there. What have you Seen because you've traveled to a ton of nations, you've seen a ton of moves of God, you've seen persecution. What have you seen personally that persecution does to the kingdom and in the body?
- [10:36]
David Platt
Oh, man. Well, you know.
- [10:40]
Can go both ways. We see it in history, and we see the challenge, certainly. So, I mean, my starting point would be, okay, these stories in the very beginning of the book of Acts As. Yeah, Acts 3 and 4, they're. They're proclaiming Jesus in the temple, and then they're being arrested and. But then they're getting together and saying, sovereign Lord, you're in control of all this. We trust in you, so enable us to speak your word with great boldness. And then they keep doing it, and they're counting themselves, they're rejoicing because they're counted, worthy to suffer for the name. So, okay, that kind of picture. At the same time, we know. I mean, Jesus tells us in the parable of the soils and the seed, like, there. There is. There's an adversary who wants to use persecution in addition to. We were talking about just cultural stuff in addition to the cares of this world. So both sides either comfort in this world or persecution from the world. The adversary wants to use both of those to silence us, to silence faith, to. To pull our hearts away from Jesus and his Word. And so we've got to be on guard against both. And. And there are situations. I mean, there's pictures in. In the history of the church where persecution has, like, silenced the church. That's always the goal of persecution, to silence witness. And. Because the reality is, that's why sometimes people say, well, I witnessed by being a good person. I witnessed by living a good life. Like, ah, yeah, yes, of course we should be good people. We should be salt and light. But. But the. The whole reason those early followers of Jesus were being persecuted was not because they were going out being nice to people, like, they were going out proclaiming the gospel. And yes, of course, they were being nice people. They were. They were doing that with the spirit of Jesus, which is. Which is key. I don't want to gloss over that. To do that with. Yeah, humility and gentleness and boldness. There's a way to do all that, just like Jesus did. But all that to say all those. Those places where I mentioned, whether it's Myanmar to Bangladesh. As long as they're quiet with the gospel, they'll be just fine. When they start being, like, active in sharing the gospel, this same for our brothers and sisters in North Korea, in Yemen, in Somalia is if, if they're silent with the gospel, then they're. They're fine. I say they're fine. They're still living in really hard places in the world, like really hard. I don't want to gloss over that. But they won't be put into prison or won't have their throat slit unless they start speaking the Gospel. And this is the story.
- [13:21]
Revelation makes clear. There are people who've given their lives for the gospel at. Beneath the throne of God, just crying out for justice and God saying, there's still more to come. And the whole picture in Revelation 12 is these are the followers of Jesus are those who have loved not their lives even unto death, and have conquered by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. And so all that. So how does that land in our laps, like, wherever we are, whether we're in the United States, whether we're in North Korea, like, we have a call to be humbly, boldly, compassionately sharing the greatest news in the world about who Jesus is and what Jesus has done, realizing it's going to be costly. We can't like, read the Bible and look at church history and think that's going to be easy. At any point he's promised us it's going to be costly and it'll be worth it. So. But this is. And this is for. To the point of what I appreciate about all that you're doing, right. Like, everyday followers of Jesus, not just like the. The people we see like as leaders or as.
- [14:40]
Yeah, just like we kind of put in a category of these are the super Christians or whatever. Like, no, this is everyday followers of Jesus. That's the whole picture. In Acts chapter eight, after Stephen is stoned, you've got everybody except the apostles are scattered. So the apostles actually stayed in Jerusalem. It was just ordinary believers who were spreading the gospel to Judea and Samaria, ended up planting the church at Antioch, ended up turning the Roman world upside down. It was just ordinary, everyday believers filled with the extraordinary power of the Holy Spirit sharing this news. So anyway, and then we're. We're a part of today. This is the story we're a part of today that's been going on for centuries. Yeah.
- [15:21]
Ryan Miller
Wow, man. Yeah. One. One thing I heard you say was that persecution is a silencer, that the goal of it is to silence the believers. And I think sometimes, you know, it's. It's not helpful to study the enemy, and sometimes it's really helpful to understand his tactics. And if we understand that the Goal of the enemy is to silence. And we see the apostles and the disciples praying for boldness before they go out. Then how does the kingdom of God advance? It advances through forceful men who take it by force. You know, and I think that's the call to the believer in this day and age. And what I'm hearing you say is there are people being martyred for their faith all over. We're seeing it happen in Nigeria right now. Thousands are being killed for their faith right now in Nigeria. That's why we partner with Global Christian Relief to take care of the persecuted church, to feed them, to send Bibles to areas where it's illegal to own one. And you could be killed for having one, but they're still so in love with the word of God. And that's where I want to go with your book coming out is it's. It's so important to fall madly in love and to realize what a gift we have. But it's also really important to realize that we are not that persecuted. It's really easy to be like, oh, you know, like, now that we. We've had someone like a Charlie Kirk, his assassination, it's really easy to be like, there's so much hate towards Christians here. No, no, no, dudes. Our brothers and sisters are being killed daily in other countries. And us. Us having someone, like, look at us funny if we share the gospel with them is not persecution. And I was with Jonathan Pakluta in the hospital yesterday, and this dude is going off. Everybody that walked into that hospital room, he's like, let me ask you a question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how confident would you be that you'd go to heaven right now if you died? He's just going. And, like, he's not being like, hey, do you mind if I tell you about Jesus here? Like, disclaimer, Disclaimer, Disclaimer. He's just charging.
- [17:22]
David Platt
And.
- [17:22]
Ryan Miller
And what was so cool about it was nobody was weird. In fact, we watched people get saved. He showed me video of this lady who got saved the day before and this doctor who came in and. And he's sharing the gospel with this guy, and. And he. He, like, the look in his eye was just like, wow, thank you so much for sharing that with me that I get to be confident in my salvation because of what Jesus did on the cross. And then, like, you just watch the guy leave the room 100 pounds lighter. And so I think a lot of times Christians don't realize that, like, evangelism is not a gift. It's not like you're gifted with evangelism. It's a mandate, like, therefore, go make disciples of all nations. And how can they become disciples if they haven't heard the good news? And one plants and other waters, and the Lord provides the increase. So that's the call to the Christian. And I think so many Christians are hung up on, like, well, I don't know that I'm good at it. It's like, well, you're not called to be good at it. You're called to do it. You're called to do it, however. And you're called to try to, you know, get better at it and try to be more natural and try to understand the word of God and how to communicate the gospel. But you're called to drop a seed and then allow someone else to come in and water and. Yeah, it's just. Sorry to get so fired up right there. I'm just. I just. I feel like I've just heard this for so long now that, like, I'm just not. Ryan, you're an evangelist. I'm just not an evangelist. I'm like, that. That's a. That's a lie. That's not biblical, bro.
- [18:47]
David Platt
What's. What's so. Well, there's a ton that's. That's so good there. Because when I think. Well, when I think about. And we were talking about the early disciples, the fact that they were praying for boldness shows they were. They were afraid. Like, there was. There was some timidity there. And so, like, let's find some solace in the fact that these early disciples who had, like, seen Jesus rise from the dead, they were tempted to sit back quiet. So let's not be surprised when that temptation comes. That's like the story. That's. I would say that in my own life. And so that means we pray for boldness. Even I think about Ephesians 6, when Paul. So he's in prison, he's writing about the armor of God, and he gets to the end of that. That. Well, the book, the letter he's writing and that passage specifically. And he says, please pray for me that I would boldly share the gospel as I ought. And it's like, wow, he needed. He needed believers in Ephesus praying for him in order to boldly share the gospel. So this is like the greatest missionary ever. And he's like, I won't do this if you're not praying for this for me, like, that's saying something. We need to pray for each other to have Boldness and not be surprised when that. That thought comes into our mind. I can't do this. I'm just going to stay quiet. That temptation like and. But that to lean into that and say, okay, yep, that's what every follower of Jesus has. Has felt. But the beauty is. And so that's where to take it the next step. So by leaning into it to say, I can't do this. But wait a minute. This is the whole reason God has put his Holy Spirit in me. Yes. There are many fruits of God's spirit flowing from us. And you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you so that you'll be witnesses. Like, of course, yes. None of us can do this on our own. It's the power of the Holy Spirit in us and that enables us to. It's so good. I've been in. I've been reading through Luke right now. That's kind of where my New Testament reading is. There's eight times where Luke talks about, uses the phrase filled with the Holy Spirit in Luke and Acts. Eight times. And every time it's connected with some kind of proclamation of the gospel. And so it's this picture of how when you're sharing the gospel, there's actually supernatural power that's enabling that to happen. So lean into that weakness that you feel and say, okay, I feel weak. I trust your spirit is strong and will enable me to do this in a way that can't be explained by me, but can be explained by you. Like that. Which is what we. In that what we all want to be a part of. Like our lives cannot be explained by human means, but only by supernatural power. So, man. Yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot there. And yes. Yeah. The same Holy Spirit who was in Peter and John, the same Holy Spirit that's in JP and Ryan Miller is the same Holy Spirit who's in every single person who's listening to this, who's trusted in Jesus. So the same Holy Spirit who came down at Pentecost and caused tongues of fire and all the. These languages speaking the Gospel, that same Holy Spirit is living in somebody right now who's listening to this and is going to have an opportunity to share the gospel with somebody today. Like, oh, lean into that to the full.
- [22:12]
Ryan Miller
Amen. Guys, I want to take a minute and tell you about a ministry my family and I support called Global Christian Relief. Now, you may not know this, but there are thousands of Christians, millions of Christians around the world that are being persecuted right now. Actually, there's more Christians that are being persecuted than ever before in history. And there's an organization where you can actually smuggle Bibles into these persecuted countries where it's illegal to own one. You can provide medical aid, you can come to their knee, you could put a roof over their health house, you can give them shelter. And Jesus says, what you've done for the least of these, you've done for him. And so I believe you'll be blessed because of it. So click the link in the show notes, check out Global Christian Relief, and help out a brother and sister in Christ that's being persecuted right now all over the world. Amen. And we forget that putting on the full armor of God means you put on the shoes that are ready to share the gospel. Because so often we think about the full armor of God like the I've got the breastplate of righteousness, I've got the belt of truth. But you are not outfitted to go take territory for the kingdom unless you are sharing the gospel, unless you have the shoes that are fit and ready to go proclaim the good news of the gospel. And I think it's like, it's like thinking of an NFL player, like, walking onto the field without his cleats on. He's just barefoot out there. It's like, well, you're. You're not going to be effective unless you have a rhythm of sharing the gospel. And unless you understand how to tie up those laces and get your boots on and get ready to go, you're missing a key part of your outfit as a Christian, which the Bible has clearly outlined for us. And that's why I think it's so frustrating to hear Christians be like, I just don't have the gift of evangelism. Well, I agree there are people that have a supernatural gift to do evangelism. However, evangelism in and of itself is not a fruit of the Spirit. It is a mandate from God to go to all nations and proclaim the good news.
- [24:03]
David Platt
Yeah, like, this is the commission that, yeah, it. It is what drives everyone. Follow me and I will make you a fisher of men. Like, from the very beginning, to follow Jesus is to fish for people. Like, to lead people to Jesus. Like, from the very beginning. Even that picture of the bookends, Like, Jesus first words to his first disciples in Matthew 4, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. And immediately they leave their nets and follow him. And then his last words, Matthew 28, go make disciples of all the nations. Like, this is what marks every Follower of Jesus. And the beauty is what I love about that is. And obviously this is Jesus in John 14 saying, you're going to do greater works than I did. But because it's not going to be the Holy Spirit in one upon one person, it's going to be the Holy Spirit in all of you. So all the different. I just think about the people who might be listening to this, who are on this campus or who are in this workplace or who live in this city and who will. The Lord will lead to that place in a way that's just unique in his sovereignty and his spirit in them for the spread of the gospel in all those places. What I love about like looking out over the. Yeah. When I'm preaching in the church family where I pastor, like seeing all these people in metro D.C. who are about to scatter, fill with the Holy Spirit of God into all these different classrooms and workspaces and gyms and wherever they're going to go, like filled with the Holy Spirit, with the gospel. This is, this is the story we're a part of. And then, yes, to be open to. Okay, how can we be doing that also around the world in places where there's little to no access to the gospel? How can we come alongside our brothers and sisters who are in those places? Whether I'm so thankful you mentioned Nigeria, to come alongside our brothers and sisters who are hurting there. I'm thinking about one pastor in particular I know there. Yes. To come alongside them and to come alongside our brothers and sisters in Bangladesh to reach Bengali speaking Muslims who are probably the largest unreached people group in the world. Like, this is, this is what we're on. I mean, this goes back to we were talking about earlier, like radical crazy love. Like, this is what we're made for. Let's not settle for anything less than this. And a nice, comfortable Christian spin on the American dream that stays pretty quiet with the gospel. Like, that is not what we're here on the planet for. We're here for so much more than that.
- [26:36]
Ryan Miller
Yeah. And that's why I think it's so important to be biblically literate. Like, I think sometimes we forget that, oh, these were, these were dudes just like you and I. These were human beings who, you know, are, are like requesting prayer for boldness. They're like, please. Like, I just, I need more boldness in order to do this work. And I, I like forgot about that scripture. But in order to get to a place where you pray like that, you kind of have to be putting yourself in positions to need it, you know what I mean? And I think that's why maybe even I'm speaking all hypocrisy in my own life. I, I don't know that I have asked in my prayer request to someone in a while has been, will you pray for me for boldness? You know, it's, I've, I've definitely asked, like, can you, can you pray for spiritual protection for me? But that's kind of comfort driven. Not that it's bad. We absolutely need to arm up in spiritual protection. We need prayers. I pray that, you know, we'd have a good night's sleep before we go to bed. I pray that we wouldn't get sick because I've got four kids under six years old, and they're little snot machines and germ factories. And so, like, I'm even, like, going through the list of prayers that I pray with my wife before bed, and I'm like, comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort. And I'm not, not all of them, but I think so often we have forgotten that, like, even like Moses, like, we, we dog Moses because he was scared to go back to Egypt. Like, dude, you're talking about a guy who was banished. Going back and walking up, it's like someone walking into the White House and being like, hey, Trump, like, you need to change your whole economic model. Because I, I, my God said so. You know, like, it's like a dude who'd get, like, laughed, like, laughed out of the White House. And we're like, wow, he was so scared. He was so, such a coward. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, we're talking about. All the disciples died. Like, they all, except with the exception of one, they were all killed. And we are sitting here praying these prayers, saying, lord, give me a good night's sleep tonight. Lord, protect me. Good prayers, not nothing wrong with them. But if we were to look at the percentage of our prayers and to see the disciples were constantly praying for boldness because they put themselves in positions where they needed it. And so, as Americans, I think that we will see revival when we have more people that are willing to say the hard thing and that are willing to share their faith when it costs them something. And I think so often we do this Christianity, when it's, when it's, you know, adds to us and we find the church that fits us. And we, we, we do the, you know, we read the Psalms, but only the nice ones, you know, like, and it's like, no, no, no. Like, if we're going to pick up our cross and follow him. We need to understand what happened on crosses, you know what I mean? And, and I think we can learn so much from our Nigerian brothers and sisters who go back to the churches that were just burned down and have a worship service anyway, even though they could be taken out like that. And they're like, I don't care. I don't care at all. Like, I like, this is the calling to the Christian. And I think a lot of it comes back to just not understanding the Bible. But when you, when you read the word of God and you don't misread the word of God and you're going to the scriptures into prayer instead of chat, gtp, GPT, then all of a sudden like you actually begin to hear from him because he's given us his words. And so I guess my question for you would be as you've written this book, as you've, as you've kind of studied and seen people over years and decades of ministry, and now we have this new tool which is this information tool where, shoot, I'm going to it to understand how to best brew my kombucha and how to like, is this chicken still good? You know, that's been in there for five. Like, I'm going for so many things, but I think it's such a temptation to go to it for our spiritual nourishment as well. Have you seen that in your church? And then what are you seeing, like 30,000 foot happening in the body of Christ with AI and with I guess biblical illiteracy, particularly in the younger generations.
- [30:43]
David Platt
Oh man, there's a lot there. I.
- [30:47]
And I, well, I would say big picture, I see.
- [30:55]
A dangerous.
- [30:59]
Dependence on like these devices and screens and not, not that screens in and of themselves are bad. Like if you're looking at the screen with the Bible, that's different than looking at the screen with something else. So.
- [31:14]
Ryan Miller
Right.
- [31:14]
David Platt
But.
- [31:16]
Like there used to be a day, I put it this way in our church family, like there used to be a day like a couple centuries ago where they were, they were followers of Jesus. They would wake up early in the morning and talking. Not just like pastors or church leaders, just your everyday follower Jesus that's waking up early in the morning and spending just starting the day not doing anything else apart from personal prayer meditation on God's Word and then get together with family in the morning to do family prayer meditation on God's word. Then to intentionally set aside time in the middle of the day for either personal or with others. Prayer, meditation on God's word. Then to get together at night around with the family for prayer. Meditation on God's word to be followed by before you go to bed, personal prayer and meditation on God's word. And we kind of picture that and we think, well, yeah, we can hardly imagine. We've got. Our lives are so busy with so much like we got. So we can hardly imagine getting up from the first thing in the morning to the last thing in the morning and everywhere in between, looking at. But that's where. Wait a minute. We actually can't imagine having something and this phone that we hold in our hands or our pockets that we look at first thing in the morning. We look at. Yeah, right before we go to bed. And all day in between, like, what is it? Like 5 hours, 24 minutes a day we're looking at. At this device on average, in the country where I live. Like, that's. That's crazy. So it's not that we don't have time. It's that we are. Have conditioned ourselves. And, and what you behold, you will become like. Like that's what Psalm 115 I was reading just the other day, just a few days ago, those who make these idols become like them. And same thing in 2nd Corinthians chapter 3, beholding the glory of the Lord, we're being transformed into his image from one degree of glory to another. So we become like what we behold. Well, if we're spending all our time, like, beholding stuff in this world and all that's that we have available to us, that's coming at us like we're being conformed to the pattern of this world all day long. Which means there's got to be intentionality to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. To use language from Romans 12 and 2 Corinthians 3. How do we make sure we're beholding the glory of the Lord? Well, you do that in his word. Like so, so that's where. What, what disciplines do we need to do to counter that temptation that. And we talked about earlier, the Mark 4 Just Parable of soils and seed, like, to keep God's word from being choked out in our minds and, and in our hearts, like when we are so just prone to go and scroll and go do this, all this stuff. And, and. And then people say, well, I just don't really have a hunger for God's word. And it's like, well, we shouldn't be surprised if we fill our stomachs with all the stuff this world has to offer. We don't have any appetite for anything else left over. What happens though, if you start to change the appetite, you start to fill your mind. Like someone meditating on his Word day and night and, and, and all throughout the day. Like, this is, this is the recipe God tells us. This is how we experience blessing. Like, and not like, just hashtag blessing, like happiness, like full, lasting, eternal happiness is found. And meditating on this word all day long, turning it over in our mind, memorizing it just like where it's filling. So that, I mean, that's one of the things I do with my phone is I have, I use like one of my apps so that I, when I have that idle moment in the day when I would be tempted to just to get on and scroll through something else, I just get on and I look at the verses I'm memorizing and I work on memorizing them. And so just trying to work on intentionally meditating on God's Word day and night. Like this is what I. So I would say where I see people experiencing intimacy with God is, is through intentional, disciplined pursuit of God and his Word, meditation on His Word day and night. That's why I wrote this little how to read the Bible book, because I just, I am convinced. I know in my own life this is, this is the key to life and in the life of those that I have the privilege of pastoring. And so, and it's nothing like New Orleans revolutionary, but it is to your point, amidst all the stuff coming at us, all the information overload, all the things that are in many ways, I mean, we know the data is there like a lot of. I mean, they call it doom scrolling for a reason. Right. Like it is leading to our doom, it's leading to destruction in us, which is exact. There's an adversary who wants to destroy us. So we've got to be intentional to counter that at every turn. And then just last quick thought and then the beauty. And this goes back to everything we were talking about with the gospel then to steward these opportunities that are there to make this word known through all these different channels that can get in front of people through a screen. So what a day to be alive that we can.
- [36:26]
Ryan Miller
Right?
- [36:27]
David Platt
Yeah. That you can host a podcast that's going to reach however many people and it can be filled with the word of God. That's amazing in a way that Paul in the New Testament would have just couldn't even fathom that we have available to us.
- [36:42]
Ryan Miller
Right.
- [36:42]
David Platt
So anyway, yeah, that's a lot there.
- [36:45]
Ryan Miller
Totally. Yeah. I mean, I'll have, I'll get these calls from these younger influencers and they're just like, I'm just struggling. I feel like my view counts are down and I'm like, I'll look at their page and I'm like, your last video reached four stadiums. Four stadiums. Like, what, what are we talking about here? You know, it's just. It's bananas what we have access to, which is why it's so important for, for us. Because whether. Whether you're just a person who just communicates to your small group or whether you're a person that occasionally shares a bible verse on TikTok and it gets a thousand views, 600 views, that's insane to even think about. Or whether you're an influencer or a pastor that's reaching millions, if not billions a year, the goal is still the same. Learn from him, you know, get to know his heart, get to hear his voice. And I mean, great title, your book, by the way. How to Read the Bible. Like, what a great title. What are some ways that you see people reading the Bible wrongly?
- [37:47]
David Platt
Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that because I think we automatically, I think.
- [37:55]
Have in our minds, well, if I'm reading the Bible, that's good. But there's actually bad ways to read the Bible. I mean, Jesus himself said this. He said, anybody who hears these words of mine and doesn't put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. And the rain came and wind blew, beating his house, and it fell with a great crash. So there's actually a way to hear Jesus's words in ways that lead to destruction. And then James says the same thing. He says, don't merely listen to my word and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
- [38:24]
To God's word. And so it's like, okay, well, there's a way to actually listen to God's word that leads to deception. So there's a way to leave God's word that leads to deception and destruction. So we got to make sure we're reading God's word the right way. And so I, yeah, in the book, I walk through just a few different ways, like taking an emotional approach to Bible. Just. And a lot of these center around ourselves. Like, what? Yeah, what. What can. What does this passage have for? What does it mean to me? What. How does it relate to the specific thing I'm going through right now? And. And there's a good heart in that. I want to be really careful because yes, we want to know the Bible's relevance for our lives. We want to hear God speaking to us specifically. But the way to get there, we have to be really careful not to twist the Bible to say things that's not saying and to make the Bible, yeah, basically to conform God's word to our lives instead of us conforming our lives to God's Word. And so we've got to start by just saying what is God saying here? And to as much as we as possible just minimize subjectivity, our whatever lenses it might be, including cultural lenses, political lenses, just preferential lenses, and just say, what is God saying here? What was he saying to the original people who read this and the person who was writing this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, what was happening there? And then to kind of, to build the bridge to okay, then what is God saying to all people of all time? And how does that apply to my life in this time? And, and so, but that, that takes, that takes some work. Like you can't, you can't get there by just getting, oh, you know, just reading a little verse from God for the day and kind of moving on with your life. Like you've gotta, you've got to spend some time really meditating on and diving into what is God saying here? Understanding God's word in order to, to get to the gold that is there. And I, I use that word intentionally. Psalm 119, 162. I rejoice in your word like one who finds great spoil. Like there is spoil just treasure waiting for us every single day in God's word. The, the, the question is how do we, how do we make sure we're getting to, to that and not being content with anything less than that?
- [40:54]
Ryan Miller
Guys, we've been talking a lot about mental health stuff this episode and I just want to share about our ministry. Sharethestruggle.org so if you're struggling with something and you're looking for one on one support with a coach who can walk you through whatever you're going through, maybe it's your marriage, maybe it's a divorce, maybe it's anxiety. I just want to point you in the direction of someone that will pray with you, someone that has the skills and the tool belt to actually help with whatever's going on in your life and that can actually give you a path forward. A lot of times it's like, hey, let's just talk about this thing and let's stay there at share the struggle. We don't want to stay There we want to be informed by the traumas, be informed by the anxiety, and to know that God's given us a hope and a future and we're moving forward. So if that's what you're looking for, go to sharethestruggle.org connect with a coach. We also have courses. We have courses on anxiety, trauma, miscarriage, loss of loved one. We have dozens of courses that I'd love for you to check out. So go to sharethestruggle.org right now and get the support you desperately need. Yeah, it's such an interesting thought to think about reading the Bible wrongly. But Satan used the Bible as his weapon for his own selfish gain. So if we're reading the Bible for our own gain and to figure out what this means to us, we are demonically reading the Bible because the Bible is not about us, it's about God. And so when Satan comes to Jesus and he says, hey, you know, just, just throw yourself off this mountain, you know, because it says in the Scriptures that he'll command his angels concerning you, you're not going to hit your foot against a stone. Jesus counters back with a true interpretation of Scripture. And so we need to, one, understand that there are false prophets and false teachers that will twist the word of God. And two, we need to be very careful not to, I'll use the word pimp out God's word for our own needs and for our own agendas and for our own truth. Because you do not have a truth. And you need to crucify your truth and follow his truth. And where is his truth found? It's found in the word of God when it's rightly divided and it's rightly understood. And when you come to it with a posture saying, lord, I want to learn more about you. Because that's the greatest gift, like your presence, your truth, who you are is the greatest gift in my life. So instead of me going to the Bible in order to learn about how to handle this situation, even which is not wrong, I don't think, you know, if you're feeling anxious and you want to go find passages on anxiety, it's beautiful. But I think at its core, at the foundation, coming to the scriptures and just saying, like, jesus, I just love you so much. I just want to know you. I want to know your heart. How do you think? And then how do I change my mind to think the way your mind thinks.
- [43:19]
David Platt
Yeah.
- [43:19]
Ryan Miller
And instead of saying like Jesus, like, what can you give me based off of this? And I think so often times we Come to Jesus for the gifts he gives us instead of him as the gift.
- [43:31]
David Platt
Bro, that's so good. I, I think about. And the way, the way I put it sometimes in our church family and I can't remember how I, I may or may not have put it in the, in the book, but is that we. The Bible wasn't intended to answer every question we're asking or address every circumstance we're facing. I mean, you mentioned your four kids under six. We've got our, our six ages 19 down to three. Like, there's so many questions I have in parenting that I wish I had like a spirit inspired book for what to do, but I don't. There's. I, I mean certainly, yes, of course there are principles that guide parenting in the Bible, but it's not a manual for how to potty train a toddler or deal with this or that in a teenager. I wish it was like, I mean, yeah, I trust the Lord, but part of me would like that some days. But so that, but the Bible and those. That's just a couple examples. There's so many things the Bible doesn't answer and so many situations the Bible doesn't address in the 21st century. But the Bible's better because what the Bible is inspired to do is to exactly what you were saying. Draw us into relationship, into intimacy with God to make us look and think and desire and love more like Jesus. And that is our greatest need even to go back to parenting. Like, that's my greatest need as a husband, as a dad. The more I look like Jesus and the more I'm walking in step with the spirit of Jesus, the better that will be for my wife and my kids and the Bible. So that this is where even. Yeah, reading Leviticus is and, and obscure laws. It's inspired by the Holy Spirit to help me know the heart of God, to draw me closer to him, to be more conformed in his image. Like that's a, that's the gift.
- [45:35]
Him and becoming like him. And the Bible every day gives us what we need for that. And so then, so now. Okay, now to meditate on that day and night. We're not getting all the guidance even to go back to the body, training a toddler or raising a teenager. But we are getting what we most need in our lives. And so to see the Word for what that is, for what it's doing in us and to go to the Word and say, make me look more like Jesus. And yes, all coming back to your point so that I might know you more so that I might walk in love relationship with you. That's why I made or just put the subtitle for this book A Simple Guide to Deeper Intimacy with God. Because this is what we're made for. Our souls are made for intimacy with our Creator. And it's God's word and the power of God's spirit that makes that a reality for us on a daily basis.
- [46:34]
Ryan Miller
Amen. I saw this video on Instagram the other day about this, this, these like tourists who went out to this field with this shepherd and all these sheep were there. And the shepherd's like, go ahead and start like telling the sheep to come over. And so you got all these different tourists, like the mom like being like, come here sheep, come here sheep. And the little kids, come here sheep. And then he's like, okay, watch this. And he goes, sheep, come here. And all the sheep turn around and they all start like coming towards their shepherd because the sheep knew their shepherd's voice. And all of the other people in that group, they're like, I don't even recognize it. So I don't even pay attention to you. And I think that's the call to the Christian is you understand God's voice. And how do you get to know his voice? Through His Word. And so you don't fall prey, you don't fall temptation because there will be lots of voices. Like we are in the information age. There is a lot of voices coming at 5 year olds, 10 year olds. And so we need to even be training our kids to understand the voice of God found in the word of God so that they don't fall prey to the voice of the enemy and the voice of temptation and the thorny soil that is coming after them.
- [47:42]
David Platt
Yes, man, we're just. Well said on every level. And I was just in John 10 the other day, like, yes, my sheep know my voice. They hear me and, and follow me. Like, yes, and, and what a thought, bro. That, I mean, I just think about this morning I had a meeting with God and he spoke to me like God, the God who's spoke. And the whole world came into being and stellar galaxies came into being. He spoke like, I heard his voice this morning. I heard his voice. It was definitely his voice in Psalm 118, telling me, the Lord is on my side, I will not fear. What can man do to me? And I'm reading that, I'm like, well, man, man can do a lot to me. Like there's. And we've talked about that. Like man can, can slander you, man can kill you, man can persecute you, man can hurt you. But the Lord is on my side. Therefore, I won't fear, because then very next verse, the Lord is on my side as my helper. It's like, oh, that's amazing. The God of the universe calls himself my helper. What in the world, like, he's my helper. Like, when I think about somebody helping someone else, like, I'll be your helper, like, alongside you, to lift you up. That's what God is saying to me about who he is in my life. So all that. That was a verse and a half this morning in Psalm 118. But God just speaking so clearly, saying this, like, what a. What a privilege, what an honor to be his sheep, listening to his voice. And. And then. Then I just think, man, yeah, I can't. I can't live without hearing that voice. And. And I don't say that tritely. I don't say that casually. I cannot live without hearing that voice. I'm a sheep. Which is kind of funny, isn't it, when I. Even as I'm thinking about that, that the Bible describes us as sheep. Like, not as. I mean, these dirty animals that are slow and not really that. Yeah. Are prone to wander. We're not, like, described as stallions. Like, we're sheep who need a shepherd, which is why, yes, we need his voice every day in our lives. We can't live without it because we'll wander, because we'll be. To your point, just. We're being attacked. There are all kinds of attacks coming at us all the time. There's an adversary who today wants to destroy our lives, wants to destroy marriages, wants to destroy our families, wants to destroy our witness, wants to destroy us. And therefore, we. We've got to be right next to the shepherd all day long. And the only way to do that is by. To your point, listening to his voice.
- [50:28]
Ryan Miller
Amen. Amen.
- [50:29]
David Platt
Amen.
- [50:31]
Ryan Miller
Well, what an honor, David. I asked this of all of our guests, like, if. If we could rally thousands of people to pray for you right now, what would you like prayer for?
- [50:43]
David Platt
Oh, man.
- [50:46]
Oh, there's a lot of things going to my mind, and one of them is exactly what we've talked about. It's really the first thing that's going to. Boldness. Like, boldness for me to share the gospel. Yes. In settings where I'm on a stage or when I have. But when I'm at the CrossFit gym in the morning, for boldness to share the gospel for just in my daily life. So that's the first thing that's come to my mind.
- [51:14]
And then. So now the second thing that's come to my mind would just be in line of what we were just talking about. For wisdom as husband and dad, to know how best to love my family and shepherd their hearts.
- [51:29]
I long for my children and my children's children. I just pray that my children's children's children would know and love God and be doing whatever he's made them, called them to do for his glory in the world. I just, ah, that's, that's a continual prayer. So. Yeah, so, so I'd. Maybe I'd summarize wisdom and boldness.
- [51:56]
Ryan Miller
Okay.
- [51:56]
David Platt
Yeah.
- [51:58]
Ryan Miller
Which is, you know, guys, you can find.
- [52:00]
David Platt
Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
- [52:02]
Ryan Miller
Yeah, yeah, throw another one.
- [52:04]
David Platt
No, I was, No, I wasn't going to throw out another one. I was just going to say because I really don't want one of those without the other. I don't want wisdom and timidity. That would be. I, I know what to do, but I'm not doing it. And I don't want boldness without wisdom. Like, I don't want to be foolish and bold with my foolishness. Like that's not good. So yeah, all that. I was just tying them together. Wisdom and boldness. Yeah, beautiful. Both and.
- [52:27]
Ryan Miller
Yeah. Well, let's pray now guys. You know the drill. We're going to, we're going to rally. We're going to be like, you know, the, the image I get is like, I don't know if this is in Star wars or Star Trek where like all the lasers converge and then it like makes us super laser, you know, like I just, I feel like that with prayers, you know, where two more are gathered, but if you just got some firepower coming together, you know, of, of prayer, I think that, that, that like, I don't know, I just, I think that it's biblical that that that works. You know, where people are in unity and in agreement and there's multiple prayers, like filling the bowls of the incense in the throne room of heaven, you know. So let's pray now, guys. Pray with me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray over you, David. And guys, as you're listening, would you just. In prayer. Let's look, what I really want to hang on is yes, wisdom and boldness. But let's also pray for generational impact for the Platt family. That your children from the 19 year old to the 3 year old would just be radical. That, that would actually have Been like a prophetic call for your lineage that you would be raising up these radical disciples. So if you guys could pray that with me and then David, could you do us of praying for the viewer, for wisdom and boldness as well? Yeah, so let's pray, guys. And, and by the way, we're going to put the book in the show notes, so if you guys want to check out how to read the Bible, just look in the show notes. The link will be right there and please go check it out. I certainly am, but yeah, let's pray. Jesus, we just thank you so much for David and for his family.
- [54:02]
Lord, we, we cover him in, in our prayers right now, knowing that you hear the prayers of your saints, that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much. And Lord, we're asking for supernatural wisdom to know how to shepherd his flock and shepherd his family and boldness to hear your voice, but then to put it into practice and to do the things you're asking him to do. Lord, in this culture and in a city, in D.C. in a city where people are power hungry and there's confusion and there's a haze spiritually, Lord, would you allow this church, is it McLean Bible Church? Is that right, David? Yeah, McLean Bible Church, would you just allow that church to be anointed to bring good news to the poor? Because there are so many poor in spirit people, not just poor physically or financially. D.C. needs Jesus. And would you give a special anointing to McLean Bible Church to do that and to his family, Lord, and to his children? Would you raise up warriors in the kingdom who do not bend the knee, but who love the word of God, who are men and women of prayer and who go out to a world that's hungry and desperate for a touch from heaven for, for, for the, the, the, the blood of Jesus to cover their lives and to wash away their sins. And God, I pray for the specific moments that are going to be coming up in the next year for David that are key, pivotal decision moments for his ministry, for his church, for his family, Lord, for even how to love wounded people. Lord, would you give him the, the, would you even bring him back to this prayer? And would you, would you just make it so crystal clear what you want him to do? And then would you bring him back to the, the desire of his heart that he just said to move in boldness? So, Lord, give him clarity and wisdom for the direction and, and then give him the supernatural boldness to step it out in Jesus name.
- [56:06]
David Platt
Amen. God, I.
- [56:09]
Receive all that pray for all that. And.
- [56:14]
God, I pray so much of that over every single person who's listening to this right now, Lord, I want to bombard your throne humbly but with confidence by your blood, Lord Jesus, to cry out for your Psalm one blessing for full lasting happiness life in you over every single person who's listening right now that your word would be their food day and night. God, I pray that they would be careful and intentional to meditate on your word day and night, and that you would make them like trees planted by streams of water, yielding fruit far beyond what they can fathom in their lives, through their lives for the gospel, for others good for their joy. They would abide in you, John 15 and abide in your love for them and abide in your word, and that your joy would be in them. Their joy would be complete and that you would bear fruit through them, God, in ways far beyond what they could ask or imagine right now. I pray Psalm 67 over them that you would be gracious to them, bless them, cause your face to shine upon them.
- [57:49]
In ways that, yes, draw them closer to you and deeper into intimacy with you. I pray that over every single person listening right now, this next week, they would experience deeper intimacy with you than they did last week and the same would be true over the next week. And just pray that over their day today, God, I pray that they would experience ever deepening intimacy with you. It's your favorite face is shining upon them and your word dwelling in them and that through them. Psalm 67:2 God, according to your word, that your ways may be known through them on the earth, wherever they go, wherever they live, wherever they work or on a campus, wherever they are. They would know your Holy Spirit is with them for them, helping them, and that you would empower them to be bold with the gospel. I pray what Paul was asking people to pray for him. I pray that over every single person listening right now that they would have boldness to share the greatest news in the world today with somebody, that you would open people's eyes to salvation, that you would draw people to yourself, God, that that seeds would be planted that would bear fruit tomorrow and a year from now and 10 years from now for your glory. I just pray for their boldness. I pray for their wisdom. I pray for their wisdom amidst whatever they're walking through in their lives to filter it all through the lens of your word and the leadership of your spirit, who promises to give us the wisdom we need in every moment. God, I just I pray this all over them that your ways made known on earth and your saving power known among the nations. That together with in our lives with brothers and sisters in Nigeria and North Korea and Yemen and Bangladesh, that you would help us as your church to make your word and your glory known among all the nations of the earth, no matter what that costs us. Because we know that you are our reward. In Jesus name we pray all these things according to your word. Amen.
- [59:54]
Ryan Miller
Amen. Amen. David, what an honor. Thank you for being on the Jesus People podcast. We will continue to be praying for your church, for your family and just super grateful man.
- [60:07]
David Platt
Bro, the honor's mine. Thank you, Ryan. Thanks for. Yes. Yeah, I just. I praise God for his grace in you. I was sharing from share the struggle to these conversations to how you are. Yeah, I trust doing what the Holy Spirit is leading you to do with his extraordinary power in you as an ordinary person. So man, Psalm 67. Just pray God's blessings over you in.
- [60:32]
Ryan Miller
Every way I receive it. Thank you man. Well guys, thank you for tuning into the Jesus People podcast. We will see you next week.