57 and Considering Retirement

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger Episode 57: Considering Retirement Release Date: May 27, 2025

In Episode 57 of Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger, host Jill Schlesinger and co-host Mark Tulareus delve into the intricate considerations surrounding retirement planning. The episode features a thoughtful conversation with James from North Carolina, a 57-year-old small business owner approaching retirement, who seeks guidance on whether to retire sooner rather than later.

Guest Profile: James from North Carolina

James is a small business owner nearing the age of 58. He is married with two children, one about to graduate high school and another preparing to enter college. James is contemplating retirement and is seeking expert advice to determine if he is financially prepared to retire now or should continue working for a few more years.

Current Financial Situation

James provides a comprehensive overview of his financial landscape:

• Savings and Investments:
  • 401(k): $140,000 in a Roth 401(k) at his current employer.
  • IRAs and Mutual Funds: Approximately $55,000, including a $30,000 IRA and a $25,000 old 401(k) from a previous employer.
  • Stocks and Other Accounts: $30,000 in stock investments and additional funds in an HSA and small accounts.
  • Total Retirement Assets: Around $3.65 million, primarily in traditional, pre-tax accounts.
  • Cash Reserves: Over $300,000 in bank accounts and mutual money markets.
• Housing: James owns a home valued at approximately $650,000, which is fully paid off.
• Monthly Expenses: Estimated at $8,000 to $9,000, encompassing current lifestyle and forthcoming educational expenses for his children.

James remarks at [03:46]:
“The job is good, but I'm just wondering, like, I'm 57, about to turn 58, and the number of years where I'm going to be able to be active are dwindling.”

Retirement Planning Discussion

Mark and Jill guide James through a detailed analysis of his readiness for retirement, focusing on several key areas:

1. Retirement Timeline:

   • Immediate Retirement: Considering retiring within the next year.
   • Delayed Retirement: Continuing to work for an additional two years until his youngest child completes high school.

2. Health Care Considerations: James expresses concern over health insurance if he retires early, noting the difficulty in qualifying for medical benefits while part-time.

3. Social Security Benefits:

   • Current Projections:
     • At full retirement age (67): $4,000/month.
     • At age 70: $5,000/month.
   • Spousal Benefits: James's wife plans to claim half of his Social Security benefits once eligible, enhancing their total monthly income.

Mark explains at [07:05]:
“So, if you were to actually do something part-time... unless you or your wife is in a position to go get a job that will offer you health benefits for some.”

4. Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs):
   • Understanding RMDs: Mark elaborates on how traditional retirement accounts necessitate withdrawals starting at age 75, potentially leading to significant tax liabilities.

Mark states at [17:56]:
“At age 75, you would be forced to take $160,000 in withdrawals... It becomes a future tax liability that we have to deal with.”

5. Withdrawal Strategies:
   • Utilizing Cash Reserves: Suggesting James use his $300,000 cash reserves to sustain his lifestyle during the initial retirement years.
   • Roth vs. Traditional Accounts: Advising against tapping into Roth accounts early to preserve tax-free growth, instead recommending withdrawals from traditional accounts to mitigate future RMD burdens.

Mark advises at [11:56]:
“I think your notion of, hey, if you're going to retire in two years, the numbers look better...”

James’s Questions and Expert Responses

Question 1: Why Not Use the Rule of 55 Instead of Waiting Until 59½?
James inquires about why the advice leans towards using funds starting at 59½ rather than invoking the Rule of 55.

Mark responds at [17:09]:
“Well, if you're waiting till 59 and a half, then you can just use whatever money's in a retirement account. You don't have to use the rule of 50 of 55....”

Question 2: Understanding RMDs and Their Impact at Age 75
James seeks clarity on what to expect from Required Minimum Distributions and their potential tax implications.

Mark elucidates at [17:56]:
“At age 75... your first required minimum distribution would be about just over 4% of the total account value... you would be forced by Uncle Sam to take $160,000 in withdrawals.”

Strategic Recommendations

1. Delay Retirement:
   Both hosts suggest that James consider delaying retirement by a couple of years until his youngest child completes high school. This approach provides additional time to bolster his retirement savings and reduce the strain on his cash reserves.

2. Health Insurance Planning:
   Emphasizing the importance of securing health insurance through the Affordable Care Act or part-time employment benefits to avoid unexpected medical expenses that could deplete retirement funds.

3. Withdrawal Management:
   Advocating for a strategic withdrawal plan that prioritizes traditional accounts to minimize future RMDs and taxes, thereby preserving Roth accounts for their tax-free benefits.

4. Emergency Planning:
   Advising James to maintain a robust estate plan and continue monitoring his financial situation for any unforeseen changes or opportunities that may arise.

James reflects at [16:21]:
“I was hoping you'd say, hey, you're great. You should have retired two years ago, but yeah.”

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Jill and Mark reaffirming their commitment to assisting listeners like James in navigating the complexities of retirement planning. They encourage James to maintain open communication and consider the proposed strategies to ensure a secure and enjoyable retirement.

Jill summarizes at [22:28]:
“You want to create a plan that's doable. Get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, write us a note...”

Key Takeaways:

• Comprehensive Financial Assessment: Before deciding to retire, thoroughly evaluate all sources of income, savings, investments, and potential expenses.
• Health Care is Crucial: Securing affordable health insurance is a critical component of early retirement planning.
• Strategic Withdrawals: Prioritize withdrawal from traditional accounts to manage future tax liabilities and preserve Roth accounts.
• Delay if Necessary: Extending the working period even by a few years can significantly enhance financial stability in retirement.
• Plan for RMDs: Understand the implications of Required Minimum Distributions to avoid hefty tax burdens in later years.

By addressing these facets, James can make an informed decision about his retirement timing, ensuring financial security and peace of mind.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

Hey gang, I was a small business owner.

[Mark T.]

I know how hard it is.

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Mark T.]

Jill on Money Show. It's Tuesday, May 27th. I hope you had a good long weekend and I hope you enjoyed everything that we have been talking about throughout the last few weeks in terms of, you know, it's trying to get that financial life in the right perspective. And also maybe we have to give you a little bit of a boost before you head out on your summer vacation. Whatever is going on for you, we are here for you. And that means that all you need to do is if you've got a financial question, anything at all that is bothering you or exciting you or something or other has to do with money, give us a holler. Go to our website, jillonmoney.com click the contact us button, write us your note. And also don't forget that if you'd like to join us live, you can check the box. Mark will do everything else. So just want to remind you that coming up soon is our next live webinar, Mike Quincy from Consumer Reports. He's the automotive expert there. Thursday, June 5, 7 Eastern Time. He will be joining us for a live webinar. And when I say us, I mean all of you who are members of Jill on Money Live. That is where for 45 bucks for the next 12 months, you have access to quarterly live webinars. The entire back catalog of Webinars and bonus audio and video content. So, Jill, on Money Live is where you will find all of that. All right, let's get to you. Today we are talking to James, who joins us from North Carolina. Hi, James. How are you?

[James]

Hey. Good. Good to be on the show, guys. Thanks so much.

[Mark T.]

Oh, excellent. What's going on? How can we help you out?

[James]

I have a pretty good feel about how my finances are, but I'm just kind of wondering, should I retire sooner versus later?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes.

[Mark T.]

Okay, moving on. No, I'm just kidding. Do you hate your job? Do you like your job? What's going on for you?

[James]

The job is good, but I'm just wondering, like, I'm 57, about to turn 58, and, you know, I, you know, the, the number of years where I'm going to be able to be active are, Are dwindling. And I'm just wondering, you know, do I have enough there to. To walk away? I know I do. I think I do. But there's some other questions I'm not really clear on.

[Mark T.]

You know what's funny about that? I've also been thinking about this. I'll tell you why I am. I was in London recently, and I was with some friends, and they told me about this wild trip that they took. It's basically like, you fly up to, like, the northern part of Sweden and you get on the back of a dog sled and, like, you basically mush your husky and you go from hut to hut and you see, like, northern lights and this amazing thing and all this stuff. And I thought that is a trip that you really, you know, you can't be waiting around for. You have to be in good shape to do it, right? And so I thought the exact same thing. Like, you're going to wait around to do things like that. Are you going to go do it right now? And then the question is, if you want to do it right now, do you want to do it in the middle of your work life? So, James, you're about to be 58. Tell us what else is going on in your financial life. So are you married, partnered? What do you got going on?

[James]

Yeah, married, two kids. One is about to graduate high school and go to college and the other one's two years behind.

[Mark T.]

Does your spouse work part time? Okay, how much do you guys make together? Say, 150 for college, for the kids. Is that taken care of? Have you set money aside? What's happening there?

[James]

Yeah, I think we're pretty close. We've got about 165,000 set aside right.

[Mark T.]

Now for the two of them.

[James]

Correct.

[Mark T.]

And are they going to go to public school or private?

[James]

So far one's going to public.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes.

[Mark T.]

So I love that. I love that high school senior of yours. Make sure the sophomore does the same.

[James]

Yeah, we figured we got to get the first one to do it, so.

[Mark T.]

Good. You first, right?

[James]

Yes.

[Mark T.]

So, James, how have you guys managed to save for retirement? Do you have a 401k plan or do you have a pension? What's going on for you?

[James]

Yeah, no pension. I have a 401k. I've got IRAs, mutual funds, and I have a couple other. A couple of small accounts as well, like an HSA and a little bit of stock.

[Mark T.]

Okay, the 401k, is it all pre tax traditional?

[James]

The current employer for a 1K is mostly Roth.

[Mark T.]

How much is in there?

[James]

140.

[Mark T.]

And so you have IRAs, meaning rollovers from old jobs and stuff. And that's. And that's the traditional.

[James]

Correct.

[Mark T.]

Okay. And how much is in that pot of money?

[James]

So the way I would break it down to starting with the smallest that I have. You know, I have about 30,000 just in stock. I mentioned the 529 with my. I have a small account with Vanguard. That's 55,000. 30,000 of that is in an IRA. And then 25,000 of that is an old 401k from a previous employer. So then my current 401k is at Fidelity, and that's a value of 140. And I have an HSA of 90 and an IRA of 25.

[Mark T.]

But when you said you had an old retirement account.

[James]

Right, so I also have an account with Schwab, some other retirement accounts, you know, ETFs and mutual funds. And this is where the majority of the money is at 3.65 million.

[Mark T.]

And that's mostly. Has not been taxed. I'm just trying to figure out, like, what are we looking at for your required.

[James]

Yeah, most of that has not been taxed. Yeah, there's a very small amount of that is in. In Roth money.

[Mark T.]

Okay, so you got a good income right now and you've got all this money socked aside. You also have money in the bank, kind of like boring money.

[James]

Yes.

[Mark T.]

How much?

[James]

Over 300.

[Mark T.]

Oh, that's some money. There you go.

[James]

That's part of the Schwab account. There's mutual money market. I'm sorry, the house is paid for, worth 6, 650.

[Mark T.]

You want to stay there?

[James]

Yes.

[Mark T.]

I know you have these two Kids. So you still have expenses, correct. Just where you are today. What is your expense on a monthly basis about.

[James]

I would say about 8 to 9,000amonth.

[Mark T.]

I'm not going to presume that that actually goes down when the kids get a little bit older because you'll have your money set aside. It'll be something. And maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Let's just, let's keep you. Let's keep that as, like, your goal. Eight to nine grand a month of income is what you would like to live on eventually, right? Okay. If you were given a magic wand, what is it that you really would like to happen? Do you want to say, I'm done this year? At the end of this year, I want to be done? Is that what your.

[James]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards that. Or sometime next year. Correct.

[Mark T.]

Okay, so we want to say, do you have enough money this minute to be able to finance your future retirement, get these kids through school, all those fun things? So. Couple more questions, James. So when you look at a Social Security benefit in the future, so let's, you know, pretend it's 10 years from now, it's your full retirement age, what would you be entitled to for your Social Security? Do you know?

[James]

I do at. What is that, 67. I'll get 4,000amonth, and at 70, I'll get 5,000.

[Mark T.]

Okay, and is your wife going to claim on half of your record?

[James]

She is.

[Mark T.]

Or does she have her own? Okay.

[James]

She would claim half of mine and she is 10 years younger than me.

[Mark T.]

Oh, all right. Look at you. Nicely done. Okay, so she can't claim for a while. So. Okay, so it seems like we have a couple of phases to think about, right? So let's say at the end of this year you're 58. And then a year and a half later, then you start, you know, you're 59 and a half. Right. Because you said you're about to be 58, so at the end of 20, 26, you'll be 59 and a half. Right?

[James]

Correct.

[Mark T.]

Is that right? Okay, so what we have to do is in the. If you give your notice, you're done at the end of this year, then you have to float yourself for a full year, which means of that, 300 grand, that's money market. You're spending some of that down, right? Just going to spend it. You're going to float your lifestyle that's already been taxed money. So we don't. Let's say that you spend half of it. So, you know, because I Don't know. You have kids and stuff happens. So 9,000amonth adds up pretty quickly. And we are left at the end of 2026 with instead of 300,000 in safe stuff, you got about 150, maybe it's 160. That's what's left. Now at age 59 and a half, we do have this 3.6 ish. Maybe it's a little bit less, but let's just say it's three and change of money that hasn't been taxed yet. Right. That's the money that I think you would want to start living on between your age 59 and a half and your age 67 or 70. Does that make sense? Because one of the reasons I want to start to get it out over time, because then if we start to spend that down, then what you're not going to be forced with is this massive required minimum distribution at the time you're 75. So we're going to use that money. You're going to live on that money, you're going to pay the tax that's due on that money and you're going to cry and say, oh, isn't it unfair? Yes, yes, yes, it's all terrible. But you have a bunch of money and you can do that. So, Mark, as you are busy doing some calculations in between eating some nuts, do you think that a game plan for James and his wife where we're pulling down the traditional IRA assets or we're withdrawing money over the course of, you know, from 59 and a half to age, let's call it 70 even, will that be, okay, sufficient so that at age 70 they can use whatever, whatever the unused balance is of that account plus the other assets they have and be able to make it to grab that eight to $9,000 a month. Is that possible, Mark Tulareus here? That is the question.

[Mark Tulareus]

I think it'll probably work. It's close. It might be a little bit too close for me. I'm also wondering, does the 8 or 9 account for. For healthcare?

[Mark T.]

Yeah, that's a good question. Because we have to buy health care on the exchange rate. Oh, okay. So we need to really do 10 or 11. You know what I think? I think that your original idea of kind of work, I think that you should work probably not till the end of 26. I'm going to say that I think you need a little bit of wiggle room here. So I think what you need to do is try to work until you know you're about to be 58 maybe when like you put two more years in. Right. I think if you put two more years in and you sock some money away, you know. Mark, do you think that James should be continuing to put money into retirement or should we build up the non retirement assets that he's gonna need, you know, from age 60 to 70?

[Mark Tulareus]

I mean, I don't know. He's got 300,000 in cash.

[Mark T.]

So I mean, you're okay spending some of that?

[Mark Tulareus]

Yeah, I am. And if, you know, if he does decide to work another year or two, I think I'd probably rather get the Roth money.

[Mark T.]

Yeah. So maybe we have you continue. If you're gonna do two years, let's say you do two years so that really, you know, you're about to be 58 at the moment, you're turning 60 now the kids are kind of, you got little one is actually heading to college. You have a better sense of what the dollar amount's gonna be. And we have, you know, one kid halfway through college. I think that that makes more sense. I do agree with Mark in that I think it's possible, I think that if you really wanted to retire right now that the way it could work is if you were to actually do something part time. Do you have that ability in your, in your current situation to maybe go to three days a week for a long, for some group of years or is that not possible?

[James]

That's not possible. I mean I would definitely do something part time, but it wouldn't be enough to qualify for medical benefits.

[Mark T.]

Okay, then I think you should probably only because of the cost of medic of going onto the marketplace and the Affordable Care Act. I think that it's probably, I think your notion of, hey, if you're going to retire in two years, the numbers look better, they just will. And then what you'll have to do is go onto the Affordable Care act, you're going to go onto the exchange and you're going to have to buy yourself some, some health care. Unless you or your wife is in a position to go get a job that will offer you health benefits for some. Maybe even if it were just like they, they kick in a certain amount based on how much time you give. But that I think would really relieve you. I think there's too much unknown right now. I think it is possible. I just don't love. I, I'm not feeling like you are doing this. No problem. I feel like the, the two issues of the kids and not knowing where the little one is going to school and Also, not having health care kind of puts a little bit of pressure. Listen, you're in great shape.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You really are.

[Mark T.]

And if you were sort of normal kind of dude who's like, I'm gonna work till I'm 65, you'd be in amazing shape. But I get the view that it would be nice to retire while you're still young and being able to do a lot of stuff. Listen, you got a kid at home now, so how much stuff you really.

[James]

Going to do exactly? Yeah, that's.

[Mark T.]

That's right.

[James]

That's kind of where I'm thinking, like.

[Mark T.]

I can't go anywhere. So I'm like, exactly. So I'm like, okay, work till. Till the sophomore is done. Now it's two years from now, you know, the sophomore is graduating, you know what college looks like. And now I think you're giving your notice and saying, It's May of 2027, and I'm giving you my notice. I'm done at the end of 27. Done. And I think that's. Unless something wildly fabulous happens to you between now and then, like, you, you know, you just hit it big. There's some big chunk of money that comes to you out of the blue, not saying investment returns, just like a. Some sort of windfall that occurs. Unless that happens. I think that the game plan should be when little one retire. Retires. Whoops. When little one graduates, then we are ready to rock and roll. And I think that that's right. And I think I do agree. At first I was thinking, like, if you were going to actually call it quits this year, I may not use the Roth, but, you know, if you're going to make it a couple of years, then why not get more money into the Roth? You know, I know it seems weird because, like, I got $4 million. How can that not be enough? It's not really. It's not actually the dollar amount as much as it is sort of the uncertainty of a couple of big issues. I think if we knew that the answer to those things, that maybe might be closer and maybe it will be. I don't want to, like, I hope you're not. Is this bum you out?

[James]

No, I kind of was thinking similar, but it does. You know, I was hoping you'd say, hey, you're. You are great. You should have retired two years ago, but yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

James, do you have a very wealthy.

[Mark T.]

Family that's going to leave you money?

[James]

No. No, I wish you.

[Mark T.]

I wish you had that. Does your wife have something like some great aunt popped into your life. Okay. And you're like, oh, my God, I didn't even know I had this aunt. And she left you a million dollars when she died. Then we're talking. Can you get me one of those? Get me one of those. You're young. You're still young. 57 is young.

[James]

Can I just ask two questions?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Sure.

[James]

So question one was, you said, use some of that cash at age 58, 59, whatever it may be.

[Mark T.]

Yes.

[James]

Why not at age 59 or 58 and a half, why not use the rule of 55 versus some of that cash?

[Mark T.]

Well, if you're waiting till 59 and a half, then you can just use whatever money's in a retirement account. You don't have to use the rule of 50 of 55. Once you're 59 and a half, you can get to your money.

[James]

Correct.

[Mark T.]

That's not a problem. So the question was between now and then. But I don't like. Okay. The reason why I would not want to invoke rule of 55 is that I don't want to touch your Roth assets. That's not the key to me. I want to touch the traditional assets because that's where your RMD problem is. Compounding.

[James]

Yeah. Gotcha. The other question I have. Yeah. Second question is I don't really understand RMDs and what to expect, because it sounds like they're gonna be. You said potentially painful. At age 75, what would I expect?

[Mark T.]

Okay. So, you know, you're so lucky because I happen to have this very handy dandy table right in front of me. Okay? So let's say that at age 75. And let's say you were. Let's push the clock forward. You're 75 right now, okay? Your first year of a required minimum distribution is based on your life expectancy. So let's say by the time you know, let's round it up. You got 4 million bucks, right? Your first required minimum distribution would be about just over 4% of the total account value, which would mean that on a $4 million bunch of money that hasn't been taxed yet. Right. Traditional money, you would be forced by Uncle Sam to take $160,000 in withdrawals. So it's 4.07% of the account balance when you're age 75, and it starts going up from there. So that's why when we talk about this ticking tax bomb, it's the untaxed liability that is sitting in those deferred retirement accounts. So $4 million, again, about at age 75, you would be forced to take $160,000 out. And if the account keeps growing, then the percentage of that account balance also is growing. And so let's say now all of a sudden, you're at age 80, and you're like, oh, I pulled all this money out, but the account's still growing. And. And from 75 to 80, even though I pulled out 160, $170,000 a year, let's say, at age 80, let's pretend the account is now worth. I don't know, let's just pretend $3.6 million. Okay, now the amount of the distribution at age 80 is $180,000 because the corpus, the total account value is so big that whatever you're pulling out in terms of a required minimum distribution is not whittling down the total account value. So that's why it's kind of interesting to think about using those assets that have not yet been taxed yet. Pull that money out, pay the tax that's due, Use it. Now you're reducing the actual amount that's in that account, but you're letting all Roth assets continue to run, because all those Roth assets, there's no tax due. And that should be the last money that we tap.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The last.

[Mark T.]

So, you know, maybe it's, you know, you've got that. You said, I have some money at Vanguard. You have some money at Schwab. When you total it all together and you look at whatever that pre tax, that traditional asset base is, you can think to yourself, whatever that total is, take about 4% at age 75. That's what your required minimum distribution would be. So it's a big number, right?

[James]

Yeah. Plus there'll be Social Security on top of that, so there'll be a.

[Mark T.]

Right. So now all of a sudden, if you're like, oh, okay, I'm 70 years old. I have $160,000 of an RMD, but then I have another 60 grand that is coming out from Social Security. Not your wife's yet. I haven't even included her because she's so young. But you put it together and you're like, oh, I'm still solidly in the 22, maybe 24% tax bracket. So, you know, this is why all of these retirement account assets that have not yet been taxed become. It's wonderful that you've done it, but it becomes a future tax liability that we have to deal with. All right, now here's the deal. You're going to get back in touch with us. If you find that aunt that's leaving you a million dollars, of course, let us know. And if something changes at work, let us know. Because I think that you know lots of things and world, the world of work is changing so much that there may be. There are different opportunities, but the worst case, like you're working until your kid gets through high school. Nah, I think it's pretty good. You're only 60 years old, sound like you're in good shape. So you'll be able to take the, you'll be able to take the sleigh ride with me. So book your trip. Couple years from now, we'll do it. All right, James, thanks so much. Oh, and by the way, you got your estate planning done?

[James]

Yes.

[Mark T.]

Okay. Just making sure. What a nudge I am, Mark. I am a consistent nudge. Hey, if you are like James, you're thinking about early retirement, you're starting to say, hey, I want to enjoy those. Go, go. Early years of retirement. And you want to create a plan that's doable. Get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, Write us a note, let us know if you'd like to join us live. Mark will do everything else. Hey, don't forget that you we've got another podcast.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's called Money Watch.

[Mark T.]

We drop our episodes for Money Watch on the weekends. You can actually subscribe to this show and Money Watch on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Try to lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Jill Schlesinger]

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