A Money Reset With Pension Options

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger Episode: A Money Reset With Pension Options
Release Date: June 5, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of "Jill on Money," host Jill Schlesinger, CFP® delves into the intricate world of pensions and retirement planning. Joined by co-host Mark, Jill addresses a listener's real-life financial dilemma, providing actionable insights to help navigate significant career and financial decisions.

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Listener Call-In: Sam’s Financial Situation and Job Transition

Timestamp: [03:20]

Listener Sam from the Midwest reaches out with a compelling financial scenario. After 24 years with his current company, he's contemplating a significant career shift into a new technology role that does not offer a pension plan. Sam's primary concern revolves around how this transition will impact his retirement savings and long-term financial security.

Sam shares:

"24 years with my current company and looking to make a change... the biggest thing I've had to calculate when doing negotiations was I'm an active pension employee in the private sector, and where I'm moving does not have a pension."
(03:27)

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Evaluating Retirement Savings

Timestamp: [04:08]

Jill begins by unpacking Sam's current financial landscape. Sam and his wife have meticulously built a robust retirement portfolio, comprising:

• 401(k) Accounts: Approximately $1.6 million combined, with 60% pre-tax and 40% Roth contributions.
• Roth IRAs: Over $400,000, fully converted to avoid pro-rata taxation issues.
• 529 Plans: $170,000 earmarked for their children's education.
• Health Savings Account (HSA): $55,000, primarily unutilized.
• Charitable Self-Directed Account: $10,000, intended for occasional lump sum contributions.
• Brokerage Account: $650,000, self-managed.
• Cash Reserves: Approximately $50,000 to $60,000.
• Primary Residence: Valued at $850,000, with a remaining mortgage of $159,000 on a 15-year term, resulting in a modest monthly payment of $275.

Sam remarks:

"We save. We live below our means."
(07:49)

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Pension Options and Retirement Planning

Timestamp: [08:42]

The core of the discussion revolves around Sam's pension options as he contemplates leaving his current employer. Jill outlines the choices:

1. Lump Sum Payment: Sam can cash out his pension, receiving $251,000, to be rolled over into an IRA. However, this option introduces potential tax liabilities and shifts investment risk to Sam.

2. Annuity Options: Opting for a steady income stream starting at different ages:

   • Age 60: Approximately $3,062 per month with a 50% survivor benefit.
   • Age 65: Approximately $4,400 per month with the same survivor benefit.

Jill advises:

"At age 65, you got nothing to worry about. You got nothing to worry about."
(20:05)

Both Jill and Mark analyze Sam's retirement projections, emphasizing that his substantial savings should comfortably sustain his family's financial needs, even without the pension. They consider Sam's plan to continue maxing out retirement contributions and his approach to savings and investments.

Mark adds:

"These guys don't really need it right now... they're in great financial shape."
(17:16)

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Financial Planning Insights and Advice

Jill and Mark provide a nuanced perspective on whether Sam should take the pension as a lump sum or opt for the annuity:

• Lump Sum Considerations: While having complete control over the funds, it introduces variables like tax implications and investment performance.

• Annuity Advantages: Offers a guaranteed income stream, providing peace of mind, especially given uncertainties around future Social Security benefits.

Given Sam's strong financial position, the hosts lean towards advising him to defer the pension benefits and continue leveraging his diversified investment portfolio for retirement.

Jill concludes:

"There is no mistake that you could make that would not generate your 10 grand a month that you need in today's dollars."
(12:02)

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Conclusions and Takeaways

By the episode's end, Sam opts to enhance his pension benefits by selecting the age 65 annuity option, aligning with his long-term financial strategy and ensuring a stable income stream in retirement.

Sam reflects:

"The lump sum didn't make sense, but unless you gave me some... this is kind of what I was hoping for."
(20:48)

Key Takeaways:

1. Comprehensive Financial Review: Sam’s scenario underscores the importance of evaluating all retirement assets and understanding how changes in employment impact overall financial health.

2. Pension vs. Investment: Deciding between taking a pension lump sum or opting for an annuity requires careful consideration of personal financial stability, investment acumen, and retirement goals.

3. Professional Guidance: Engaging with financial experts can provide clarity and confidence in making significant financial decisions.

4. Personalized Strategy: Tailoring retirement strategies to individual circumstances ensures that financial plans are robust and adaptable to life changes.

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Final Thoughts

Jill Schlesinger wraps up the episode by congratulating Sam on his well-informed decision and encourages listeners facing similar dilemmas to seek personalized financial advice. She also reminds listeners about the upcoming webinar with Mike Quincy from Consumer Reports and the benefits of becoming a member of Jill on Money Live for exclusive content and live interactions.

Jill states:

"Change your work, change your wealth, change your life."
(21:40)

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Note: The timestamps correspond to the positions in the provided transcript and serve as references for the quoted sections.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

Hey gang.

[Mark]

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[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Jill Schlesinger]

Welcome to the Jill on Money show. It's Thursday, June 5th and we are here answering your financial questions. If you have one, all you need to do is go to our website jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, write us a note and if you'd like to join us on the air live, you check the box. Mark will do everything else now. I just want to point out it is Thursday, June 5th, which means tonight we are hosting our special webinar with Mike Quincy. He is the car expert from Consumer Reports. We are doing that at 7 Eastern time. The only way you can participate is if you are a member of Jill on Money Live and Mark says you have until 3 o' clock Eastern Time this afternoon, 3 Eastern to sign up and subscribe to be a Member of Jill on Money Live, where you'll have access to this webinar tonight, as well as three more throughout the year. You'll have the entire back catalog of all of the other webinars we've done and bonus audio and video content. And It'll cost you 45 bucks for the next 12 months. So check it out. We'd love for you to join us. I have so many questions for Mike. I'm excited, and I know that all of you guys who are participating, you come armed with questions. We'll answer them in real time. Okay, so got the business done. Let's go to our listener. It is Sam, who joins us from the Midwest. Hello, Sam. How are you?

[Sam]

Good morning, Jill. Good morning, Mark. Doing wonderful. How about you?

[Mark]

Great.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What's going on? How can we help you out?

[Sam]

Well, Jill, I'm calling because. And first of all, thanks for having me on. Of course. I am calling because I got your book last year. Read your book, and the great money reset. And. And I'm about ready to do a reset.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, exciting.

[Sam]

24 years with my current company and looking to make a change. Go to a different side of technology, different company, different customer challenges. But the biggest thing I've had to calculate when doing negotiations was I'm an active pension employee in the private sector, and where I'm moving does not have a pension.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, but you definitely. But you're definitely doing this, right?

[Sam]

Yes, yes. The numbers more than work.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. How old are you, Sam?

[Sam]

45.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Are you married? Are you partnered? Are you single?

[Sam]

Married with two kids.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How old are the kids?

[Sam]

Kids are 13 and 11.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, 13 and 11. And does your spouse work?

[Sam]

She does.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. For the new job, how much will you be earning?

[Sam]

340.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow, big shot. What about your spouse? How much does she earn?

[Sam]

She makes about 80.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so you got these kids, you got these jobs. You're calling because you have this active pension question, but should we just drill through everything else and then go back to the pension? Let's do that. So how much money have you guys saved in retirement so far?

[Sam]

So a couple different categories there. I got it all broken down. So retirement 401s about 1.3. Sorry, 1.6 million with my wife and my mind combined.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And that's the money that has not yet been taxed.

[Sam]

No, no, that's. So about 60% of that combined is pre tax on about 30% or, excuse me, 40% about that is Roth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, wow, that's great. Okay.

[Sam]

We switched as soon as the Companies allowed that. We made the switch on that. My wife's was a little bit later than mine was, but switched as soon as we could.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's great. I mean, that's. It's good because you're young and so obviously and you're making a lot of money now. So this is very impressive. Okay, let's just call it about a million pre tax and then we'll say 600 in Roth. Okay, let's continue. What else do you have?

[Sam]

So we have Roth IRAs, and all of that's been converted because I was. I learned about pro rata from you a couple of years ago and cleaned that up. Those Roth IRAs are just over 400,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow. God, you got a lot of money. Okay, keep going.

[Sam]

529.

[Jill Schlesinger]

170 combined.

[Sam]

Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And just say, Wait a second, private or public, do you think for the kids?

[Sam]

Public.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. HSAs.

[Sam]

HSA55.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And are you using that? Are you just kind of banking that and letting. Okay, got. Got it. Yep, keep going.

[Sam]

And then we have the. I don't know what. I can't remember what it's called. Unfidelity site. Site. It's called a charitable self. Charitable, self directed. I opened that, I think last year, the year before, after listening to one of your. One of your calls.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so you've got a charitable. Fidelity charitable account. How much is in there?

[Sam]

That's 10 grand right now. And I'll probably do that fund that every two or three years. Just do like a lump sum.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Sam]

And then we have brokerage. 650.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow. All at Fidelity?

[Sam]

All at Fidelity, yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you're managing it yourself?

[Sam]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Cash on hand, bank account kind of stuff.

[Sam]

Cash on hand. It's about 50,000. 50. 60, give or take.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And how about your house?

[Sam]

House is values about. About 850. We've got 159,000 remained on a. The mortgage. It's a 275. We took out a 15 year back in 2014. 2015.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And this is a house you want to stay in at least till the.

[Sam]

Kids are done with everything. Yeah. So probably 10 years.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Do you have any other properties?

[Sam]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Does that cover what we got in terms of the balance sheet, what you got, what you own, what you owe?

[Sam]

Yep, pretty much. And I'm sure I've heard, you know, people call Ion and talk about their numbers like, oh, yeah, you're gonna get hate mail. We started off 24 years ago making 50 and. And I had a commission job with a partial Salary. We banked that commission. Everything we've calculated was always off the salary, so. And we save. We live below our means.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So no hate. So in other words, no hate mail gang. I mean, you make a lot of money. You guys make a lot of money together, so that's fair, right? You know, I get that, which is amazing. So you've built a beautiful net worth. So tell us about what you're thinking about in terms of the pension. I presume there's a lot of options at this point. Like what are. So first of all, when you are. So you're 45 now, do you have to wait for a certain period of time before the pension kicks in?

[Sam]

So I have options there. You can take a lump sum when you leave, or you can leave it, and then you can pick which time period you want to elect to take that. And it will continue to grow. It looks to be about 2% for each one of those options if you let it grow longer.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What's the lump sum right now?

[Sam]

$251,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

$251,000?

[Sam]

Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Just out of curiosity, Sam, do you know how much you guys spend right now with the kids? I know they're teenagers, lots of expenses, but let's just all in. Do you know what you. Not what you save, but your real spending?

[Sam]

Yeah, we do a monthly budget, so we spend anywhere from 8 to 10,000amonth, depending on activities or things that have to get pa. That particular one.

[Jill Schlesinger]

When you're taking this new job, this $340,000 a year job. Thank you very much. Do you feel like this is a job where you're going to have some longevity? Do you, you know, do you have. Have you guys had. You and your wife had conversations about, like, what you think about in terms. I mean, presumably you need to kind of hang in there for 10 years while you get your kids through high school and into college. Beyond that, that you. Then you'd be 55. What do you think about your actual retirement date?

[Sam]

Yep, that. Great question. I've been thinking about that a lot based on, again, on that book that I was reading last year. This was a hard decision. I've been thinking about this particular company, this opportunity. We've been talking. I've been talking to them since, like, November of last year. And it was a hard decision and looking for at least 10 years. I looked at it as like, what do I want to do for the next 15 years?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Sam]

But 55 would be the earliest. And that's all based on that brokerage account. I'M just buying years from, I'll call it 59.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, but I mean, at this point, just, you know, to put it bluntly, you've got, let's call it $2.7 million that you've built up, you know, between your, I'm not Even including the HSA is nothing else, but just you got 2 point. So we have 2.6. Some of it hasn't been taxed yet. So even if I take that out, let's just pretend I take the tax liab out of your million. And your million is not really a million, it's more like 800. Okay, fine. So you know, but you've got a lot of money, like $2.4 million or so, and that's going to grow and presumably you're going to keep adding money each year for the next 10 years. Right. You'll put, you'll put money in your own retirement account. Your wife will put money away as well. Is she entitled to a pension in the future or not?

[Sam]

She's not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And so, you know, over 10 years you're going to put a bunch of money away. Right. And do you think you'll continue to put more money into that brokerage account? So, you know, if I know that you're putting 40,000 or so a year away through your retirement accounts, what else are you putting into the brokerage accounts?

[Sam]

Commissions. I fund that. Usually it's maybe once a quarter putting in 10 grand, 20 grand, whatever's kind of sitting there, built up in the bank account.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So would you say it would fair to say, would it be fair for us to say that between you and your wife, forgetting about the fact you'll have catch up contributions in five years, but let's just say right now you're both maxing out your retirement contributions, right?

[Sam]

Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so there we have 47,000. And then you're putting in also your commission checks. So it's 10. So it would say. I think we could say that you're putting in probably at least $80,000 a year into retirement savings. Right. So we know that we're gonna have $800,000 of additional money added to your 2.4 ish. The 2.4 will grow itself. Which now, you know, Mark, what do you think we get to give me 10 years of. I know, see, I see what I really do is I drag it out so he has time to work on it. So now at age 55, how much do Sam and his wife have? About conservatively. Conservatively probably like five and a half okay, good. I wrote down five to six. Good. I'm not so dumb after all. I've been doing this a while. All right, so let's say you have five and a half million dollars, okay? And we know that you need 10 grand a month. I mean, the 10 would have to be inflated, right?

[Mark]

So how much, how much of that 10 is, is your current mortgage payment, which will soon be gone?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, that's a good question.

[Sam]

Insurance, taxes, mortgage, it's about 23, 22.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, but that we just would. The mortgage is going to go away in 10 years, but let's forget about that. They'll just do other fun stuff. I think that it is fair to say that there is no mistake that you could make that would not generate your 10 grand a month that you need in today's dollars. I mean, you'll have inflation of that 10,000. Everybody listening when we have these conversations, These are total back of the envelope calculations. You should run your own retirement numbers. You absolutely should. And so for someone like Sam and his wife, you know, you can run these numbers on the Fidelity website, there are plenty of calculators. But let's just say we're trying to generate $10,000 a month in today's dollars. Knowing that he's going to put 80 grand, they're putting 80 grand a year away into combination of retirement plans, brokerage accounts. Gets you about five and a half million dollars. The 10 is not really going to be 10. Maybe it's going to be more like 15. Doesn't matter, my man, because at $5.5 million, again, conservatively. Conservatively, if we have like a withdrawal rate of just 3%, meaning you just, you peel off 3% of these accounts, you're going to have more than enough money that's going to meet your needs. That does not include anything about the pension. We haven't talked about the pension yet. That does not include future Social Security, which you will be entitled to at some point down the line. You're in great shape. There's no reason that there should be any worry. I'm not sure that what I've just done in that quick analysis informs us on the pension. And I'll tell you why, because you're kind of in great shape either way. So let me ask you a couple of questions. This is a private pension. Do we trust the company? Do we trust that they will fund this pension and be able to make the promised benefits?

[Sam]

Nothing to this point would give me any pause thinking that would be a no. So I. Right now, yes, nothing would say this, that's going to change.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How important to you or to your wife would it be for us to have some form of consistent income for you? What do you think it would make.

[Sam]

Me feel better not knowing what Social Security looks like in 15 years.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Sam]

Or. And I'm not even going to take it then It's. I plan. That's the last thing I plan on taking. So I plan on 70 to Social Security, but who knows what that looks like in.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right. Maybe it's a 20% reduction of what you think you're going to get. Okay, I get you the 250 today, cash out. That would go into an IRA rollover account would not change your life. Okay? It would not. So what you gain by the lump sum, the cash out is. It's your money. That's it. It's yours. You don't have to worry about it. Just pop it into the pile. It works. Okay. Now if you said be nice to have some money coming in, tell me what happens at, you know, you're age 55. You're done. Fine. Now tell me at age 60, if you were to take the pension amount. Let's do. Is your wife also 45 or is she younger? Older.

[Sam]

Younger. She's 41.

[Jill Schlesinger]

41. Okay, so if we did a joint and say 50% survivor. Okay. At your age 60, how much money does that turn out to be?

[Sam]

That's 3,062.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's a nice amount, huh?

[Sam]

Yep. Like I said, it grows about every. It grows about 2% for every one of those options. So the next option is 62 and then 65.

[Jill Schlesinger]

2%'S not great. Sometimes there's a better incentive, you know. Hey, Mark, what do you think about taking a joint and 50% just to have a little stream of income? Let's just pretend he works for five years. There's he's at 55, he's got five and a half million dollars. But they have no more income. But they have plenty of money to draw from. Maybe even this is a good thing because maybe, you know, maybe you'll be able to invoke the rule of 55 from your company or your wife will be able to do the same. You might be able to pull some money out, get start paying tax on it. All this is good news. But at age 60, the three grand a month is not a bad little stream of income. So Mark, what do you think about that?

[Mark]

Yeah, I made my decision like 10 minutes ago. I mean, because they're in such good financial shape, I know, $250,000, it's a nice chunk of money, but these guys don't really need it right now. And I was just playing with the numbers and I was looking at the age 65 pension option, which was how.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Much he gave it to us. So the audience does not know this.

[Mark]

With the half 50% survivorship, it's 4400.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Mark]

Now if you take the $250,000 and you let it grow for 20 years, which would bring them to 65, and then you did like a 3% withdrawal, it's about $2,000 a month. So I'm taking the pension just because they're in great financial shape right now. They don't really need the money right now.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Would you rather take the pension at 60, 62 or 65? That's the question.

[Sam]

I'm open to either one of those. I lean towards the pension because the other thing that I just don't know how this factors in is if I take that lump sum, where does it go? Does it impact my Roth IRAs? Does it what tax implications? Those are things that I was hoping you would say. Yeah, you don't want to do that because you've already cleaned up what could have been a problem with pro rata. I didn't want to make another problem.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, I see what you mean. That if I put it into an IRA rollover account with that 250, now I'm in the pro rata problem. Right. So I think there's not a huge. Unless you told me the company was in dire straits. I think that there are some companies that are going to have a hard time making their pension promises. But if not the case, I think that first of all, we can say, let's target 60. And if things are going great and you don't have to worry about it, maybe, you know, maybe you defer it for a couple years, maybe some of the plans change. But I think that 60, 62 or 65, you're not going to make a mistake. Again, some of this is your emotions. If you and your wife feel like, you know, we're 55 and 51 years old and we're now going to go to have much less income. We really want to start the pension, the pension stream today. And that would give you peace of mind just to have a little bit of money coming in, which may just be like, hey, I'm going to cover my health care costs, whatever it is, fine. I don't think that these numbers are so dramatic that, you know, if you wait two years that you get an extra 600 bucks a month. It's nice, but it's not incredible. Waiting that five years gives you 4400, as Mark said. But I think that making that pension election, you. When do you have to do it? You have to do it. Like, when do we have to actually make a decision? We're not going to do cash out in June.

[Sam]

Yeah. I have to file a paperwork by the end of the month.

[Jill Schlesinger]

But for. For what you're going to choose 60, 62 or 65.

[Sam]

Correct. I think I have the option of making a change. But they want you to submit what your plans are. Like the joint survivor 50 or 75.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yep.

[Sam]

Or if you're taking the lump sum.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you're in good health. Right?

[Sam]

Yes. Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, so let's. I think. All right, here's our vote. Our vote is back of the envelope calculation. You say, no, thank you for your cash out. We're going to pull the trigger at age 65 for that 44, that's almost $4,500 a month. At age 65, you got nothing to worry about. You got nothing to worry about. And you move on from there. Like you have the ability to make this. This choice. A lot of people don't. I get it.

[Mark]

And by the way, just FYI, at age 65, the difference between 50 survivor and 75% survivor is only $300.

[Sam]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, I would do 50%, though. I mean, I think I would just do 50% because it's not worth it. Yeah. So how do you feel about this, man?

[Sam]

It fits in with what I was thinking you were going to say. And I was. This is more looking for confirmation. To me, the lump sum didn't make sense, but unless you gave me some. Well, no, these are the three reasons why you would absolutely do that. That I'm not thinking about. This is kind of what I was hoping for.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's. Then you win and you've got your documents in place, estate documents and all that fun stuff. Great. I think that you're in wonderful shape, Sam, and I'm so glad that you were able to use the great money reset to help you make a decision. That makes me so happy. And thanks for the plug, man. I always appreciate a little plug. Let us know how things turn out in the new gig. I'll be. I'll be very interested to hear from you how you're navigating the new job. So stay in touch. Okay?

[Sam]

Will do. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Jill. Have a great summer.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, you too. Wow, what a great story, huh? Mark just put all that money away. He's he. I like that you guys are protecting me against the hate mail. Thank you for that. If you've got a big question that is looming, a decision to make if you're looking at a new job, if you're trying to make sense of what is going on in your own financial life and you need some assistance, go to our website jillonmoney.com click the contact us button and let us know if you want to come on the air live. Don't forget to sign up for the free weekly newsletter. And if you want to join us tonight, don't forget, subscribe to Jill on Money Live. We're talking to Mike Quincy from Consumer Reports, the auto expert from Consumer reports tonight at 7 Eastern Time. If you want to join us, you've got to get signed up by 3 o' clock Eastern Time, so do that right away. You can subscribe to this program on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Don't forget to leave us a rating and review wherever you listen and of course, lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

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