Jill (3:16)

Okay, well, let's do our own little. We're going to do even a quicker plan. Let's see what we can find out. Kate, how old are you?

Kate (Caller) (3:23)

39.

Jill (3:24)

And your husband?

Kate (Caller) (3:25)

$42,000.

Jill (3:26)

Kids? Nope, no kids. Okay, you're both working full time. Correct. You can either do this together or you can do it separately. Whatever's easier for you. How much do you guys earn?

Kate (Caller) (3:37)

Household is, we'll say conservatively, $275,000.

Jill (3:41)

And you're both making retirement plan contributions, correct?

Kate (Caller) (3:45)

Yeah, we both max out our Roth. I have a 401, he has a.

Jill (3:50)

403 and both Roth versions.

Kate (Caller) (3:53)

Correct.

Jill (3:53)

Okay, 401k and 403. How much money have you guys accumulated in those retirement accounts so far?

Kate (Caller) (4:02)

So total in retirement we have 511 and that is broken down to 385 in our employee plan. So 401 and 403 and then 125 in our Roth IRAs.

Jill (4:18)

Okay, great, great. And do you have other money besides that? Half a million or so in investments like a brokerage account maybe?

Kate (Caller) (4:29)

Sure. So we've got. We've just started a brokerage last year, so 25,000 in that.

Jill (4:35)

Okay.

Kate (Caller) (4:36)

And then we do have 40,000 in an HSA.

Jill (4:40)

So this is, you know, sounds good so far. Is there anything out there that is going to throw me for a loop? Do you have any debt?

Kate (Caller) (4:48)

No debt other than the mortgage.

Jill (4:50)

How much is the house worth?

Kate (Caller) (4:52)

Probably 500.

Jill (4:54)

And what is the mortgage that remains?

Kate (Caller) (4:57)

We'll use round numbers. 200.

Jill (4:59)

And what's the interest rate on the mortgage?

Kate (Caller) (5:01)

Don't hate me, Mark. 275.

Jill (5:04)

Poor Mark. He has to endure such indignities every day. And this is a house you want to remain in?

Sponsor/Announcer (5:10)

Like this is the good house for you?

Kate (Caller) (5:12)

Correct.

Jill (5:13)

Okay, great. What about money that is in the bank? Kind of boring old Cash.

Kate (Caller) (5:19)

Cash, yeah. We've got probably too much of it. It's my security blanket. Okay, we have 220 in cash.

Jill (5:28)

And that's a very warm blanket, lady.

Kate (Caller) (5:31)

Yes, it is. Well, you know, we're in Arizona, so we like it hot.

Jill (5:35)

Okay, I got you.

Kate (Caller) (5:36)

It's broken down. 60 is our true never touch emergency fund. We've got about another 60 in short term funds, vacation stuff we plan to use within the next year. And then we have a hundred thousand in a no penalty CD that's at 395. That's got another eight months left in that. We just kind of, we're really good at saving. Evidently it's just kind of access funds. We kind of call it an opportunity fund. We're interested in maybe buying a small business or a rental property one day. So it's just kind of.

Jill (6:16)

But you don't have anything like that right now. There's no rental property. There's no, like. Okay, gotcha.

Kate (Caller) (6:21)

Nope, we're boring then.

Jill (6:23)

You're not boring. This is incredible. Do you guys have parents that you need to help out?

Kate (Caller) (6:29)

Nope.

Jill (6:30)

Okay, so financially secure family members and siblings and all that, right? Correct. So what's the curveball you're going to throw me that made the flat fee advisor say you're on steroids here? Like, what's going on?

Kate (Caller) (6:43)

Really, there's no curveball. So the number we've kind of been aiming for, again with the plan of maxing out our employer plan and again maxing out two IRAs a year, and then our plan is to do about 2,000amonth. So 24,000 a year into a brokerage we were coming up with. We'd probably need about 5.5 for us to retire on the earlier side. So ideally. So 59 for me, 62 for him. So exactly 20 years from now.

Jill (7:14)

Okay, so we do. Okay, so let me just make sure I got this right because I'm going to let Mark do some back of the envelope Math. Okay. So 20 more years, Mark, they max out their 401k and the 403b. They also put two grand a month into the brokerage account. Okay. And no other extra money. Like we're not, we're not saying that that cash of 220 is going to get bigger. You're going to use your excess cash flow into the brokerage. Is that about right? Yep. Okay, what is your spend right now? What do you, what do you, what do you reckon the expenses are?

Kate (Caller) (7:47)

Conservative month, seven grand? I, I guess I would probably say when we factor in vacation stuff like that, 10 to 11,000amonth total.

Jill (7:58)

Those are some vacations you're taking. Yeah.

Kate (Caller) (8:01)

Well, that's, that's total, right? So, all right, so probably about 120 to 130 a year.

Jill (8:07)

Okay. I'm going to use 10 grand a month as your expense. You mentioned a 403, so I just want to double check. Are you, either of you, entitled to a pension?

Kate (Caller) (8:16)

Yes. So that's that, I guess, would be the curveball. He is entitled to two pensions.

Jill (8:22)

Two.

Kate (Caller) (8:23)

One is a small one through his military service that will start at 65.

Jill (8:29)

And what will that be?

Kate (Caller) (8:31)

Guess. Using today's math, 2,500 2500.

Jill (8:35)

Like for a year, not a month.

Kate (Caller) (8:37)

Oh, sorry, A month.

Jill (8:39)

So, okay, your small one is 2,500amonth at his age, 65. Now. What's the second pension?

Kate (Caller) (8:45)

Second one, there's going to be some options. He works in healthcare, hence the 403B kind of the 2. There's multiple plans. Depends on years of service, age he collects it. There are lump sum options. So let's just go with what our plan is, which is a million dollars at age 65. Lump sum.

Jill (9:08)

Okay. You don't happen to have the monthly.

Kate (Caller) (9:11)

I do. The monthly at 65 with spousal benefit would be 5,000amonth in today's dollars.

Jill (9:20)

Okay, so 5,000amonth in today'S dollars. 2,500amonth at 65. And you will both be entitled to Social Security, right?

Kate (Caller) (9:33)

We believe so. If it's still there.

Jill (9:34)

Oh, stop.

Kate (Caller) (9:36)

It will be there in some way, but we're really trying.

Jill (9:39)

Even if it's like if it's 2, if it's 2/3 or 75% of that, then fine, whatever, you'll have money. I got to be honest with you. I don't get where you fall short. So let me start by asking the flat fee advisor what. Where did they think the plan falls short? Forgetting about the five and a half million dollars, just where do they think you're falling short?

Kate (Caller) (9:59)

So what they had said, and I kind of, again, without doing the full analysis, they said we would need to kind of aim for a goal of 9 to 10 million to be able to retire early.

Jill (10:12)

20 years, that's like you're on crack. There's no way.

Mark (10:15)

Guess what? With the pensions, you'll basically have that.

Jill (10:18)

That's what I'm thinking. What, they knew about the pension, right? Correct.

Kate (Caller) (10:22)

Yeah.

Jill (10:22)

I don't get that. It sounds like they didn't. It sounds like they forgot to actually include that. Forgetting about, like what the actual number is. You are on track. Okay. You are on track to reach your retirement goals. There's 20 long years between now and then. I don't think that you're, you're going to have any problem because I think you're probably under counting how much you can really save at this point. You're saving more than maxing out your two retirement plans and your Roths and the two grand a month because you accumulated all this cash. You've already said we are good savers. So my opinion, and again, back of the envelope, I think that there's something strange in their analysis. I think that you can double check, triple check this along the way. Like once a year you can run through a quick retirement calculator and look at the numbers. I don't see how you don't make it. Based on what you've told us, you're saving a ton of money. You already have, let me see, five. So even if I just take the cash out, you have a half a million dollars that you've saved and investments already. We never have to add another dime to the cash. Let's just pretend that sits aside on the balance sheet. You never do it. You're going to put all this money into the brokerage account. You're going to keep saving what sounds to me like, you know, 50 grand a year is what you're probably saving, if not more. And this is going to accumulate over the next 20 years. So I don't see where you blow it. And I certainly think that having the pension options and again as you get older you're going to have more information. Thank goodness you don't. I mean, as long as you're happy and healthy right now, you'll be able to make the analysis. You know, sort of look at where you stand. Maybe by the time you're, you know, like you said, 20 years from now, you'll be able to look at these pensions. 15, you'll be able to look in the future and see what is accumulated, what you have. Did I mess up on the expenses? Am I spending a lot more than I think? I tell you what, I wouldn't be so invested in thinking of like that a hundred grand in CDs as your opportunity fund. I think it's really just, it's your anti anxiety. It's like I don't have to take Klonopin at night cause I have 100 grand in CDs. I don't think that you're the type of, I don't think you should be looking for rental property. I think what you're doing Is great. I really don't. If something fell in your lap, maybe get in touch with us, but I just don't. I don't see the down where you are. I mean, like, the mortgage is cheap. You live well below your means. You're saving a ton of money, Mark. What am I missing?

Mark (12:58)

You're not missing anything. I don't see where the cause for alarm came from with the other people. I mean, I just run the numbers, just using round numbers. $70,000 a year for the next 20 years. Obviously, a lot can change between now and then. You guys are probably saving more than that. Yeah. In 20 years, that's going to get you, conservatively, $5 million.

Jill (13:17)

And that's plus tensions. Right. That's what I don't quite get. So you get the 5 million.

Sponsor/Announcer (13:23)

Maybe they're increasing your expenses by a.

Jill (13:25)

Higher inflation rate than we're even thinking about. Maybe I don't get it. Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. How about that? Isn't my answer better? It's a lot.

Kate (Caller) (13:35)

Yeah.

Jill (13:36)

My.

Kate (Caller) (13:36)

My husband will be happy because.

Sponsor/Announcer (13:37)

Yeah.

Kate (Caller) (13:38)

He'd like to spend a little more now. Well, I mean, the savings.

Jill (13:41)

Yeah, I think.

Mark (13:42)

Don't kill yourselves.

Jill (13:43)

I wouldn't kill yourself. Absolutely. And I really, really would not be. First of all, like, a problem in 20 years is like, I don't think it's like, oh, I have half as much money as I need, which is what they're saying. It just does not make any sense to me. It's like I feel like they're doing one of two things. One is that maybe they're growing your money at a lower rate, and maybe they're growing your expenses and the inflation rate at a higher rate. And maybe that's the combination that gets you halfway there. I don't buy it, though. There's no way. You guys are great savers. Your money's going to keep making money. You're not going and buying. Like, you're not starting to worry about a college education. It doesn't make any sense to me. So I'll tell you what, let's not worry about this right now. You can come back and get in touch with us. We can run these numbers every year with you. Okay. You know, it's really not a problem, but I really. Gosh, I would not. I would not worry about this. I think that it really would be interesting if you happen to have the. Did they give you a. Like a printout of their analysis?

Kate (Caller) (14:45)

They did not. So that's kind of the. Again, kind of Coming in with the numbers we felt confident with, it was a complete kind of shock to us. And I think their whole point was you're retiring early and so you're not.

Jill (15:00)

What do you mean early? 59 and 62. You have no kids, you don't even spend any money.

Kate (Caller) (15:05)

Yeah, so that, that was kind of like I said, our, our thought is again, using online calculators, listening to your show, we felt we had a reasonable kind of goal post to aim for. And again, saving about 88, 000 based on 20, 26.

Jill (15:22)

Oh my God.

Kate (Caller) (15:23)

Numbers. Right. With maxing out, they wanted us to save like 120 to 130 a year and then convert on top of that everything to traditional for additional tax savings.

Jill (15:34)

What do you mean? To Roth, you mean.

Kate (Caller) (15:36)

No, they wanted, they wanted to stop the Roth and go traditional. What, in order to increase. Yeah, the, to lower the tax liability.

Mark (15:45)

So in 20 years you'll have 5, $5 million of pre tax money.

Kate (Caller) (15:48)

Exactly.

Jill (15:52)

Like I said about that.

Mark (15:54)

Trust your gut.

Jill (15:55)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's one we haven't heard. And also, by the way, you're going to keep putting money away and your money that you're going to contribute is going to grow as your salaries grow. So that's what we're not accounting for. And oh, by the way, I also think that, you know, you're going to have more money because the mortgage is going to be paid off. And I don't know, this just does not make sense to me. Keep doing what you're doing. Get back in touch with us if you have any questions. Tell your husband he can relax. He doesn't have to work till he's 65. It's going to be okay.

Kate (Caller) (16:26)

Perfect.

Jill (16:27)

Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Great. All right. Hey, did someone give you a message that didn't resonate or doesn't kind of pass that, that gut check for you? It could be something like a product. Hey, you should buy this private equity. Hey, you should buy this insurance policy. Hey, you're not doing this, that and the other thing. And you just want another set of ears and eyes on a situation. Mark and I are both certified financial planners. We'd love to talk to you about this stuff and we want to hear from you. So just go to the website, jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, write us a note. And by the way, if you want to come on the air, just check the box because that's when we can really kind of walk you through some of this and maybe have a little more nuance to the conversation. All right, you can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app. By the way, you can also subscribe to our weekend show called Money Watch on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Do something nice for someone else today. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

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Ann Marie Green (18:57)

Go behind the scenes of one of TV's most watched true crime series with the 48 Hours Postmortem podcast where correspondents and producers take you inside each case. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours and then join me 48 Hours correspondent Ann Marie Green every Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.