Are We Saving Enough?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Are We Saving Enough?" Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
Release Date: January 29, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Are We Saving Enough?" Jill Schlesinger delves into the financial concerns of retirees and those nearing retirement age. Focusing on listener interactions, Jill provides personalized advice to ensure financial security and effective savings strategies.

Listener Profile: Dave from Chicago [03:14]

Dave, a 50-year-old retired military personnel now working as a government civilian, reaches out to seek Jill's expertise. He expresses uncertainty about whether his current savings and pensions are sufficient for a comfortable retirement.

Dave’s Financial Situation [03:17 - 09:19]

Income Sources

• Military Pension:

  • Amount: $6,600/month (taxable)
  • Details: "It's a lot of money." [04:18]

• Government Civilian Salary:

  • Amount: $153,000/year (taxable)
  • Contribution: Actively contributing to the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP).

• VA Pension:

  • Amount: $2,500/month (tax-free)
  • Origin: Rolled over from his wife’s former 403(b).
  • Clarification: "That's not taxable, right?" [04:51]
    • Jill confirms: "That's $2,500 a month, not taxable." [05:17]

• Wife’s Income:

  • Amount: $500/month (part-time)

Assets and Savings

• 529 College Savings Plan:
  • Total: $100,000
  • Contributions: Actively funding for two younger daughters.
  • Strategy: Directing funds towards state schools.
• Retirement Accounts:
  • Traditional TSP: $86,000
  • Personal Roth IRA: $107,000
  • Wife’s Roth IRA: $68,000
• Annuity:
  • Amount: $113,000
  • Origin: Rolled over from wife’s 403(b).
  • Taxation: Taxed upon retirement.
• Savings Accounts:
  • High-Yield Savings: $5,000
  • Checking Account: Approximately $10,000
• Real Estate:
  • Home Value: $550,000 - $600,000
  • Mortgage: $352,000 at a favorable 2.25% interest rate

Family and Expenses

• Children: Three daughters aged 17, 16, and 13.
• Giving:
  • Charitable Donations: 10% of gross income to the local church and other charities, totaling around $16,000/month.
  • Adjusted Spend Without Giving: Approximately $11,000/month.
  • Jill Questions Donation Method: "You say, 'I'm 10% tithing on your gross or on your net?'" [11:00]
    • Dave Answers: "We do our gross." [11:09]

Analysis and Recommendations [09:20 - 18:17]

Current Financial Health

Jill commends Dave on his robust financial standing:

• Income vs. Expenses: "If you're really gonna do that... the retirement scenario looks great for you guys." [13:35]
• Savings: Adequate contributions to TSPs and Roth IRAs.
• Debts: Favorable mortgage rate contributes positively to net worth.

Estate Planning

• Existing Documents:
  • Wills and Power of Attorney: Established six years ago.
• Recommendations:
  • Update Estate Documents: Ensure guardianship and financial management roles are current as children age.
  • Create a Healthcare Proxy: "Whatever you want to happen, just put it down on paper." [14:57]

Retirement Strategy

• Projected Income at 60:

  • Total: Approximately $11,600/month
    • Military Pension: $6,600 (inflation-adjusted)
    • Future Government Pension: $2,500
    • VA Pension: $2,500 (tax-free)

• Annuity Management:

  • Suggestion: Roll over the annuity into a Fidelity Rollover IRA to manage tax implications effectively.
  • Jill Advises: "If there are no fees to get out now, I would do it right now." [16:15]

• Withdrawal Strategy:

  • Traditional TSP: Slowly withdraw to manage taxable income.
  • Qualified Charitable Distribution: Utilize to bypass certain taxes by donating directly to qualified charities.
  • Social Security: Delay claiming to maximize benefits, while ensuring some income before claiming.

Reassurance and Final Thoughts

Jill reassures Dave that his current savings and income sources position him well for a comfortable retirement:

• Feeling of Pressure: Acknowledges Dave’s concerns but emphasizes his solid financial foundation.
• Family Investments: Highlights the importance of Dave’s investments in his children’s education.
• Overall Assessment: "It sounds like you're in really good shape." [13:35]

Conclusion

Jill concludes the episode by reinforcing the importance of comprehensive financial planning and regular reviews. She encourages listeners to assess their financial strategies, update necessary documents, and seek professional advice to ensure they are on track for their retirement goals.

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Notable Quotes

• Jill Schlesinger: "You're doing a great job, dude. Stop sweating it." [18:17]
• Dave: "We do our gross." [11:09]
• Jill Schlesinger: "It sounds like you're in really good shape." [13:35]

Final Remarks

Jill extends her appreciation to military personnel and invites other listeners to engage with the show for personalized financial advice. She also promotes the podcast’s subscription service, offering additional resources for subscribers.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content sections as per the listener's request, focusing solely on the meaningful financial discussion between Jill and Dave.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Dave]

Hi, Jill. I'm good. How are you?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Tell us what brings you to the show today.

[Dave]

I'm really interested in your thoughts because I. I've. I'm retired military guy, and so I've got. I've got a military pension. I'm working now. I'm a government civilian now, so I've got all these pensions, and I just. I don't know if I'm saving enough. So I've got these pensions. I'm saving money, but I don't know if I'm saving enough.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Dave]

That's what I'm interested to. To hear from you, to see how I'm doing, basically.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, this is great. How old are you, Dave?

[Dave]

50.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And are you married, single? Partnered?

[Dave]

Yes, I'm married.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Sorry. How old?

[Dave]

She's 53.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Is she also military?

[Dave]

No, she's not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Does she work?

[Dave]

She works part time, very part time.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's when I aspire to very part time. I was just talking about that with Mark. Okay, so the old military pension, which is now paying out, how much is that?

[Dave]

$6,600 a month.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow. It's a lot of money. Yeah. Your current salary, $153,000. Your wife, you said was very part time. So how much income does she bring in?

[Dave]

It's like 500amonth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Any other sources of income besides the salary, the part time, and the pension?

[Dave]

Yeah, I actually have another pension. It's like a V. Course you do. It's how much a VA pension? It's like 2500amonth, which is tax free.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my God. I'm sorry. You have a VA pension. Does that mean you got hurt?

[Dave]

Well, it's not really. Well, I mean, they evaluate you, you know, at the end of your military service. So, yeah, you know, it's. It's a combination of things.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I hate that. I mean, I. I'm glad you're getting compensated, but I just. That's not great. So 2,500amonth, not taxable, right? 6,600 is taxable, yes. And 153, also sadly taxable since you actually are working.

[Dave]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So that's a lot of money that's coming in. Do you guys have kids?

[Dave]

Three kids, three daughters.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, how old are they?

[Dave]

I've got a junior, a sophomore, and then an eighth grader. 17, 16, and 13.

[Jill Schlesinger]

17 and 16 is insane.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I don't even know what's happening.

[Dave]

All four. All three of them will be in high school next year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What are we doing in terms of college for these kids? Because one of them gets a GI Bill. Is that it?

[Dave]

Well, I do. I have the post 911 GI bill, and I actually, I split it. Well, I can. I can change it, but I've split it between the three. So you get 36 months, and I gave 12 months to each of them.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so each has a year on the military.

[Dave]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And then do you save other money for them for college?

[Dave]

Yes. So I have a 529.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Dave]

And we have just in total, there's 100,000 in that 529.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's great. That's great. Do you contribute to that 529 going forward? Do you put a certain amount in?

[Dave]

We had in the past. We are putting money in. We. We haven't been putting too much as of late. We've been. We've kind of stopped on the oldest one, but we're putting money in for the younger two, like my. My sophomore and the eighth grader. We're still contributing, but we haven't been for the oldest one.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, and are they all headed to state school or private school or. You don't know yet.

[Dave]

We're trying to direct them to the state schools is what we're trying to do.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Good luck on that. Okay. Are you putting money into a new deferred retirement plan through your government civilian salary?

[Dave]

Yes. So I'm contributing to the tsp.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Good.

[Dave]

And I'm just. I'm doing the traditional tsp.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is in the traditional tsp right now?

[Dave]

86,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, all right. All right. Let's talk about other assets that you have accumulated. So we know that we got the 100 grand in the 529, the 86 in the traditional tsp. What else is out there?

[Dave]

So I have a roth that has 107 in it. And then my wife, she has a roth that has 68 in it. And then we have this. We have an annuity that has 113 in it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Now, wait a second. Can I spend a second on the annuity?

[Dave]

Sure.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That annuity is that. What are the sort. What's the source of that Annuity money. Did you put a lump sum of cash in there, or was that a rollover from something else?

[Dave]

Well, originally it was a. Back in the day, my wife was a nurse, and so it was a 403B. And we rolled it into that a long while ago, back when we got married, and then it was from that, basically.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so it's a rollover and it's. So it means. Only reason why I'm asking that is I want to try to understand the tax, the cost basis, the tax and all that, but what I need to know is the money that rolled in was not taxed yet. All of the money in this annuity now would be taxed upon retirement.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, got it. Gotcha. Okay, so no more money's going into that, right?

[Dave]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Any brokerage account? Any money that's already been taxed, that's invested?

[Dave]

No, we do have, like, a high yield savings account. It doesn't have a ton in there. There's like 5,000 in there.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, what about money just in the bank?

[Dave]

Well, we have our regular, like, checking account stuff, and we usually have, you know, it varies in there, but there's usually, like, about 10,000 in there, and it comes up and down little bit, but that's kind of normal for us.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Great, great. And what about your house? Do you own it?

[Dave]

We. We own it, but we haven't been in there that long. But it's. We do own it. We have a mortgage on it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, what's the house worth? Would you guess?

[Dave]

Between 550,000 and 600. Right around there.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, and what's the outstanding. The mortgage amount?

[Dave]

352.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you haven't been in there that long.

[Dave]

It's done very well.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, but what's yours? Oh, that's good. What's the interest rate on your mortgage?

[Dave]

2.25%.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Come on, now. Loving that. Yeah, loving that.

[Dave]

Me too.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so you got a lot of money. How. How would you assess your cash flow right now? Like, if you look at the end of the month kind of thing, like, tell me what's happening.

[Dave]

Well, I mean, right now with the three girls, I mean, our cash flow is fine. It's just they do a lot of.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Stuff, and so those damn kids, they eat, you know, electricity.

[Dave]

So it's like they, you know, our cash flow is. We got a lot flowing, and so. Yeah, no, our. Our outflow is high, basically.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, do you. Do you have a guesstimate of how much that that is?

[Dave]

I mean, right now? And we. We do. I Mean, we do a lot of giving, so that's important to us. Like, okay, so we do give 10% to the local church. That's a big thing for us. And.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Dave]

And we do charity stuff. And so right now, if you include that, it's probably around 16 for us poor.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave]

But if you take that out, you know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, take out the. Take out the. The. The. Let. Let me, like, derail your moral compass for a second, okay? Please? Let me just. Let. Bring. Let me bring down to your base level.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

If I just had to pay for your stuff and you, you know, I know you're gonna give money, but, like, what are you. You say, I'm 10% tithing on your gross or on your net?

[Dave]

We do our gross.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Come on, we gotta do the net. All right, I'm not gonna argue for that. Okay, so what is your actual spend?

[Dave]

We're probably around 11.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, this government civilian job, will it also have a pension attached to it if you stick around?

[Dave]

Yeah. Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Tell me about that. What will that be?

[Dave]

Well, it's probably going to be around 2,500 bucks a month by the time I'm. Well, my goal is to. What I'd like to try to do is get to 59 years old if I can. That would be when my youngest is done with college, but I don't know if that's a possibility.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, let's say whatever. Do you mind if I just say 60 just for the heck of it? Okay, so if we say 60, right at that time, you would have $6,600. Is your military pension inflation adjusted?

[Dave]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so you'd have 6,600 from the military pension. The future pension would be about 2,500. And you'd have your VA pension, which is not taxable.

[Dave]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So that's. And you'll have your healthcare. Right. Isn't all the healthcare taken care of?

[Dave]

It is, but we do have to pay something for. We do have to pay some for.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It, but how much?

[Dave]

Well, for us, it's. You pay a little bit per month. It's not a lot, but then you do have to pay some CO pays.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, but it's not terrible. Nothing terrible here.

[Dave]

No, it's not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so what we know is for your future pension selves, like your income without any Social Security. And we'll talk about that in a second. But like, assuming at your age, 60, that $11,000 a month. You got it. It's good because you have your future pension, your military pension, your VA pension, which I did, and I just didn't even include the fact that it's. The VA is not even taxable. But it's $11,600 a month. You said you need about 11,000, so that's all good. Okay. And along the way, you know, you can certainly, certainly be happy to gift along the way and tithe and do what you're going to do. And when you stop working, I have another idea for you. So that's, that's a different issue. But I mean, it sounds like you're in really good shape. I hear in your voice, like you feeling a little bit under pressure because the kids and the stuff and the college and all that. Is that right?

[Dave]

Yeah, that was. I was feeling a little bit that way just because I feel like I should be saving a little bit more, you know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Are you really gonna do that? Come on now. You got these three great kids. See, I made them great. And they're good kids. And it's gonna be time sensitive. I know, but like as they go to college, you know, they'll go to college, hopefully go to University of Illinois or wherever else you would like them to go. They'll get some schooling and they'll be launched and everything is good. And you know, frankly, the retirement scenario looks great for you guys. I just think that these periods, like if you're going to have three kids in high school at the same time, it's going to be tough to be saving a ton of money. So you're doing what you should be doing. You're saving through your thrift savings plan. You're doing great job with that. Absolutely great job.

[Dave]

Thanks.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you're saved. And you have saved a bunch of money. So I just going to put a few things in your ear. I presume all of your estate documents are done?

[Dave]

We do. We have a will and a power of attorney. We don't have anything beyond that yet.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, well, maybe a couple of things just to think about. Okay. I bet that that will was done when your kids were really young. Is that right?

[Dave]

We actually did it about six years ago, so it's not super old, but we probably need to update it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Take a little look. See at that. Only because the kids are getting older and you may want to make some changes about like hey, when just make sure like the person who is in charge of being the guardian has the ability to manage your money. You know, like there's just things change. So go look at those documents. Also create a healthcare proxy. Whatever you want to happen, just put it down on paper.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Now let's say you're 59 or 60 years old, and I say to you, hey, you're great. You got this, you know, you got this 11 grand coming in. You know, it may not be perfect. It might be a little, you know, because some of it's taxable, some of it's not. You. You'll have money that you can dip into for that period of time when you're 60. What I will like you to do is that annuity that's in your wife's name, that old 403B. That's probably called a IRA rollover annuity now.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The ideal way to manage that would be whenever there is no fee to get out of that annuity is that you just roll it into an IRA rollover for your wife. Wherever you hold your Roth plans. Where do you hold your Roths? Right now?

[Dave]

Fidelity.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So you open up a Fidelity rollover IRA for your wife. Into that plan would go that annuity, that $113,000 with today's dollars. Okay. But make sure there's no fees to get out. If there are no fees to get out now, I would do it right now.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

If there are fees, don't do it, because I hate paying those fees.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Anyway, what would happen is let's just pretend that it's today and we rolled in you. You have a direct rollover. It goes 113,000. Then just invest it like you're investing your. Your Roth plans. Right. In Fidelity. Now you're going to hang on to that money. And when you're 59 or 60 years old, there's a couple of things that can happen. One is that you could just say, you know, whatever we need in extra money, we'll just slowly pull that out of the annuity in order to make sure that we can pay our extras. Right. We pay our taxes or we can tithe. You can just. You're gonna. Your. Your goal is to drain that IRA rollover. Okay.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And same thing for your traditional thrift savings plan. So, you know, whatever's not been taxed, you're gonna slowly pull that money out. And from age 60 to age 70 and a half, you'll probably. Either. Maybe you'll deplete it, maybe you won't. I don't know. You'll see if there's any money left over at age 70 and a half, whatever's in your retirement account that has not been taxed. And there'll be some. Cause you'll have your current that you're going to end up rolling over. You'll be able to do something called a qualified charitable distribution. You'll be able to take money out of those accounts and bypass you send it on over to the church. And assuming they're a qualified charity, can't be, you know, some wacko kind of thing that they just make up. And you'll be able to use that money very tax efficiently.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So you're going to have a lot of taxable income. That's the good news. And the bad news is that you'll have taxable income, which is something that we can try to minimize by using your retirement accounts either to pull the money out slowly. Before you can claim Social Security, you will get some Social Security, right?

[Dave]

Yeah, I've paid into it the whole time.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So you'll get your Social Security. And so before you claim Social Security, though, I want to try to get some of this money out of these retirement accounts.

[Dave]

Okay?

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You're doing a great job, dude. Stop sweating it.

[Dave]

Okay?

[Jill Schlesinger]

You got three kids. They're good kids and they're having fun. What's the most expensive activity that they have?

[Dave]

Dancing.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Dancing? What kind of dancing?

[Dave]

Well, like team dancing. You know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What's that?

[Dave]

Traveling around and, you know, going to competitions and stuff like that. And there's some.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, wait a second. Are they like part of that whole cheer thing? That sounds cultish. It scares me.

[Dave]

No, no, not. Not to that extent.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right. You know, but the dance competition.

[Dave]

Yeah, someday.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my God.

[Dave]

It's fun. They love it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I guess it could be worse. It could be like they're ice hockey players and you have to wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning and go to the arena.

[Dave]

No, we don't do that, thankfully, none of that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So. All right. Well, Dave, seems like you're in good shape to me.

[Dave]

Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, and thank you. Hey, thanks. Thank you so much. I love how many military people we have because, you know, I'm have. I am the least military person in terms of like my ability to actually foot to authority. And I'm not tough, so I would run. Good luck to you guys. I gotta go. I'm out of here. Because I'm. I'm a chicken. And so I very much respect everything that you all do in the military. And so thank you so much for that. I really do. All right, if you are retired military, we. We're going to give you preference because Mark and I are both wimps. Right, Mark? No shot that we'd be in the military. Is that right? I would have a real problem with that. Yeah, I know. Because we don't. Because both of us have a hard time with authority. That's the problem. That's why, that's why we are. That's why we're friends, and that's why we're work spouses, not spouses. I'm really so much older than you are, so I'm your, your work family, but I know, I know. I have such respect for these folks. They're incredible. So, anyway, if you've got a financial question, if you're retired military, give us a holler. If you are just thinking about something big going on in your life or maybe you're just looking at a different way of contemplating the end of your career, give us a holler. Go to jillonmoney.com or, by the way, the beginning of your career. Click the Contact Us button, write us a note, let us know if you'd like to come on the air with us live. Don't forget to sign up for the free weekly newsletter and check out our subscription service. It's called Jill on Money Live. That's where you have access to quarterly live webinars, bonus audio and video content, as well as the entire back catalog, all for the bargain basement of $45 for the next 12 months. Hey, Mark, by the way, I added up every single subscription that I have streaming, but also, like for work stuff. Do you have any idea how much you pay for your, all of your. I didn't even include. Oh, my God, I forgot the cable bill. But what do. Do you have any idea what you're spending on your, on your various subscriptions? Monthly, I would say monthly. It's probably around, I'm just going to guess, probably around 300 minus so much more and it's embarrassing. So. Okay, that's what I got for you.

[Dave]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I just gave my number.

[Dave]

What's your number?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, I'm doing. I have to see annually. My. I haven't put my cable in here. I have two cable bills that are stupid. So three, six. It's probably, it's probably close to 500amonth all in for everything. But that includes, like my New Yorker Ad magazine and my Financial Times. But like, it's so much money and so 45amonth. That sounds dreamy to me. All right, well, that's just one thing. And I also added up all that crap that you spend money on to keep the platforms going. So whether it's the webinars or the website. And you know this here podcast platform, all that stuff. It adds up. Dude, takes money to run a business. Run an empire, right? Oh yes, that's it. Our little mini empire. Anyway, come join our empire. If you wouldn't mind. You can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Try to put your hands metaphorically on someone's back. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening. Listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Real Estate it's been a cornerstone of wealth building for generations, but it's also often a major headache for investors. 3:00am Maintenance calls, tenant disputes, property taxes Enter the Fundrise Flagship Real estate fund, a $1.1 billion real estate portfolio built for you. We're Talking more than 4,000 single family homes in thriving Sunbelt communities, 3.3 million square feet of in demand industrial facilities, all professionally managed by an experienced team. With the Flagship Fund, you're tapping into real estate's most attractive qualities. Long term appreciation potential, a hedge against inflation, diversification beyond the stock market. Check, check, check. All without complex paperwork, massive down payments or soul sucking landlord duties. Visit fundrise.comjillonmoney to explore the portfolio. Check out historical returns and see just how easy it can be to add real estate to your investing strategy. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the Fund's [e-mail] Flagship this is a paid advertisement.

[Jake Brennan]

Have you heard the Disgraceland Podcast? Do you know about Jerry Lee Lewis wanting to murder Elvis? Or the hip hop star who cannibalized his roommate? What about the murders ACDC was blamed for? Or the suspicious deaths of Brittany Murphy and River Phoenix? These stories and more are told in the award winning Disgraceland Podcast hosted by me, Jake Brennan, every Tuesday day, where I dive deep into the dark side of entertainment and the connection between music, history and true crime. Lon's lead singer, Debbie Harry, was shocked when she saw the man's photo in the newspaper. She recognized him. How could she forget? He'd given her a ride years ago. A ride she'd barely escaped from with her life. And now here he was, right there on the front page, accused of kidnapping and killing at least 30 women. And now Debbie Harry finally knew his name, Ted Bundy. Follow and listen to Disgraceland on the Free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.