Can I Scale Back and Live a Bit More?

Summary

Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Episode: Can I Scale Back and Live a Bit More?
Date: August 22, 2025
Host: Jill Schlesinger, CFP®
Listener Guest: Catherine (Pacific Northwest)

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Overview

In this episode, Jill takes a call from Catherine, a listener seeking guidance on whether she can afford to scale back her career and/or enjoy life more—such as taking more vacations or shifting to a less demanding job. Catherine is navigating the complexities of blending finances with her soon-to-be spouse, managing family responsibilities, and wrestling with the “permission” to tap into her significant savings. Jill offers a careful analysis of Catherine’s finances, reassures her about her financial security, and explores both practical and emotional barriers to making lifestyle changes.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Catherine’s Current Situation

• Age & Partnership: Catherine is 46, partnered, and planning to marry this year. Her partner is 48.
• Income: Catherine earns approximately $186,000/year. Her partner earns $145,000/year and is in a job he enjoys with a pension benefit.
• Family: Four children between them. Catherine is responsible for two younger ones (ages 10 and 11) for college expenses; the older two are managed by the other parent.

Finances

• Catherine’s Assets:

  • 401(k): ~$180,000
  • Taxable brokerage accounts: $1.68M and $1M (the difference between them remains a bit unclear—possibly individual stocks vs. a long-held account)
  • HSA: $42,000
  • Savings: $98,000
  • Home: Worth $600,000, fully paid, no mortgage
  • 529 Accounts (College): $277,000 total, divided for the two younger children

• Partner’s Assets:

  • 401(k): $642,000
  • 457: $836,000
  • Pension: Estimated at $6,000/month starting at age 53 (in 5 years)

2. Desire for Change

• Catherine expresses wanting to either enjoy more discretionary spending (e.g., vacations to Europe) or scale back from her current demanding job (“mentally taxing”) to something less intense or of greater personal meaning, possibly at a significantly lower salary (~$90,000/year).
• She questions whether she’s saved “enough” to justify these choices, especially if her next job did not allow further retirement contributions.

Spending Patterns

• Current monthly expenses: $8,000–$9,000 (“fluctuates” depending on the month)
• Joint finances with her partner are not fully merged yet; they both contribute to a joint account for shared expenses but otherwise keep finances somewhat separate.

3. Jill’s Financial Analysis

Permission to Enjoy

• Emotional Block: Catherine has the means but feels “worried about being responsible for all these little people” and not giving herself “permission” to enjoy her money.
  • Jill: “Give yourself permission to go to Europe. Catherine, what is your problem? Why are you so mean to yourself?” [08:42]
• On Catherine’s Wealth:
  • “You have a lot of money, right? What’s the freak out here?…Even if…you spend ten grand a month, …you can do that.” [09:57]

“Can She Afford It?”

• Jill runs through the numbers and concludes that Catherine is already extremely secure.
  • Jill: “If Catherine wanted to basically take a job…maybe not even ever put any more money in retirement, and she was looking to generate eight grand a month…Do you think she has enough money saved so that she can, like, actually have a job that’s a much more meaningful job, scale back a little bit in time, make less money? Will all that money…be enough for her to live this life that she’d like to live? 100%. I mean, she’s very close to being there right now. Unbelievable.” [11:42]
• While not yet including her partner’s assets or pension, Jill is confident Catherine’s solo position is secure; fully merged, the financial picture is even stronger.
• Key Calculation: With a combined post-scale-back salary of $235,000 (“your 90 and his 145”) and current spending, the plan is feasible.

Next Steps & Considerations

• Clarifying the Real Question:
  • Jill presses Catherine to consider which change matters most: “Is it to work less and therefore…spend less, or…keep earning…but be able to spend a little more money? …That’s the real question.” [10:39]
• Testing Scenarios:
  • “If it were 90 grand and you could do something better, you’re 90 and his 145 could pay your bills. …You can do that. ...But I think it really requires you guys to sit down together and look at this together.” [13:45]
• Need to Consolidate: Jill encourages merging finances post-marriage for a clearer picture; currently, “we have like two thirds of the story and not the whole story yet.” [15:46]
• Estate Planning: Once married, update all estate documents.

4. Emotional & Behavioral Barriers

• Catherine’s lingering discomfort seems to be more about permission and psychological readiness than lack of means.
• Jill’s Closing Advice:
  • “I don’t want you to be in a terrible place where you’re, like, you’re spent, you know? So I think you should try to really work hard together. To say, like, is it really the job I have and the amount of time I’m spending, or is it like, I just don’t give myself permission to spend even with this job? I think that those are questions that we need to answer.” [16:18]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jill on Perspective:
  “You don’t spend that much money. Four kids is a lot. It’s three more than Mark has—put that in perspective.” [09:21]

• On Having a Well-off Ex:
  “I like, if you’re going to have an ex, I’d rather have a rich one than a poor one. Let me be great.” [09:11]

• On Scaling Back:
  “Sometimes I’ve talked to women who do this all the time. They’re like, I’m going to go part time. And it’s like they go part time, but it’s actually terrible because they end up working full time, getting paid half as much.” [13:13]

• Final Advice:
  “You’re young, you’re happy, like, enjoy yourselves. You’ve got a bunch thing going on. You’re good. …Take a deep breath and get us a little more information. Maybe you get back in touch with us with the fiancé on the line and we’ll pump him for information.” [16:43–17:04]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:13 – Catherine introduces her question about scaling back and/or spending more
• 03:08 – Discussion of her income, marital status, partner's job and pension
• 04:36 – Review of Catherine’s retirement savings and brokerage accounts
• 05:44 – Home ownership and mortgage status
• 06:10 – Details of children and college savings
• 07:10 – Catherine's HSA and cash savings explained
• 07:37 – Partner’s retirement assets detailed
• 08:14 – Current and potential monthly spending discussed
• 11:16 – Main question: is her savings enough for scaling back?
• 12:31 – Jill’s calculation: “You’re very close to being there right now.”
• 13:36 – Exploring what “scaling back” would look like
• 16:09 – Estate planning reminder post-marriage
• 16:18 – Emotional readiness and giving herself permission

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Summary & Actionable Takeaways

• Financial Security: Catherine is in an excellent financial position to either spend more or scale back at work, especially when combined with her partner’s pension and retirement assets.
• Next Steps:
  • Consolidate finances post-marriage to gain full clarity.
  • Decide jointly what spending and working levels bring the desired balance of enjoyment and long-term security.
  • Update estate documents after marriage.
  • Give herself “permission” to enjoy the wealth she’s accumulated.
• Invitation to Follow-Up: Jill suggests Catherine re-connect after marriage, ideally with her partner, for an even deeper analysis.

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Tone: Supportive, practical, a little humorous, always direct.

For Listeners: Catherine's situation is a case study in both financial preparedness and the emotional/behavioral dimensions of money decisions—reminding us “having enough” is only part of the equation; being willing to enjoy it is another.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hi, I was. Thanks for having me. I'm calling in to see if I could perhaps either just live a little bit more, you know, go on a vacation here or there or perhaps kind of scale back at work, maybe do my next endeavor. So I just wanted to. To check in and see.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Get an opinion.

[A]

Well, I thought you were going to say you wanted to live longer and I was going to say that that's not the kind of show we talk about here.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay, well let's do some Nuts and bolts stuff. Catherine, how old are you?

[B]

I'm 46.

[A]

Okay, and are you in some horrible high stress job?

[B]

It said mentally taxing. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, when you talk about scaling back, what does that mean to you? Like right now, how much are you earning?

[B]

Oh, probably about 186 or so.

[A]

Okay, 186. And are you single, partnered? Married?

[B]

Partnered to be married later this year.

[A]

Okay. Are we combining your partner's income with us here?

[B]

I think for the retirement picture? Yes. Yeah, we're slowly kind of melding more as the years go by.

[A]

Okay, what does your partner earn?

[B]

I think about 145.

[A]

Okay. Is your partner going to make a change to their life in terms of scaling back, or is that 145 going to be consistent?

[B]

No, consistent. He really likes his job, so he's in it for at least the next five years when his pension kicks in and probably longer. Honestly, he really likes.

[A]

I love a pension. Hold on a second. How old is he?

[B]

48.

[A]

Okay, so you're not due a pension, but he is, Is that right? Okay, so what would his pension benefit be?

[B]

We're thinking right now the estimate's around 6,000amonth. It'll probably go up based on, you.

[A]

Know, Future raises, but 6,000amonth, when would that kick in? At what? At what age?

[B]

In five years is when it could kick in.

[A]

53. At age 53, he could get six grand a month.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Whoa. And it's only going to go up and he likes it. That's great. Amazing. All right, well, you don't get a pension. No fun.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

But do you have a 401k?

[B]

Yeah, I've saved, I mean, I think quite a bit over the years. I have worked 401k.

[A]

And then how much is in the 401k right now?

[B]

All together? It's probably about 180.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I have a taxable retirement account that has like 1.168 million.

[A]

You mean a taxable brokerage account, right?

[B]

Well, yeah. Then I have a separate brokerage account too that has a little bit over a million dollars.

[A]

Wait, two different brokerage accounts. One is 1.68 million and the other million.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

What's the difference between these two? Is one like inherited or what's. Why are they separate?

[B]

I think one is just individual stocks and then the other. I think it's how it maybe came into this account. One was things I had from a very young age, and then the other, you know, I'm not really sure. I'm not Great on money, Joe. That's why I'm calling you.

[A]

You're great on money. What are you talking about? You have a lot of money. Do you and your partner own a home together or are you renting?

[B]

We own a home.

[A]

What's it worth? What's the amount?

[B]

We think around 600.

[A]

Is there a mortgage outstanding?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. And do you guys have kids?

[B]

Yes, we do. We have four between us. Two are a little bit older, and then two are younger. So I'm responsible for the two that are younger for college. The two that are older are taken care of by the other parent.

[A]

Okay, so the younger. The two youngers, how old are they?

[B]

10 and 11.

[A]

Do you have accounts set up for them? 5, 29. Or brokerage accounts that are earmarked for them?

[B]

Well, we don't. I was wondering about brokerage accounts for them. I don't. I do have. I'm trying to find the number here. I made a spreadsheet, but now I can't find you. Did I see. Oh, the 529s, they have about. It's 277,000 combined. So it's. I have it split between the two.

[A]

Is that intended to cover four years of public or private, do you think?

[B]

I don't know. It might be private. They go to public school now and probably will through. And they will through high school, but for college, it might be private just due to what's available.

[A]

Okay, that's fair enough. Any other assets? A rental property or something else floating? You got a drawer full of crypto somewhere? What's happening?

[B]

I have an HSA that has 42,000. And then just checking and you know that type of thing about. And savings, about 98,000.

[A]

Okay. And in your. Your. Your partner, in addition to the six grand a month in five years, at his age, 53, does he also have a deferred retirement savings account?

[B]

He does. He has a 401k and a 457.

[A]

Do you know what's in there?

[B]

Yeah, the 401k, it's 642,000, and the 457 is 836,000.

[A]

Okay, so he's got a million and a half bucks, and that's great. Okay, so you ready for the most important question?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I want to help you scale back and go to your next endeavor or spend more money and have fun. But what is it that you are. What's the spend right now before we start to figure out what you can do? What is happening today? Like, what are you spending money on.

[B]

It'S hard because it fluctuates. I'm estimating probably 8,000amonth, maybe nine, depending on the month, and just, you know, different things that are due.

[A]

But like, if I said to you, well, when you talk about spend more, like if I said, hey, you know what, why don't you just spend ten grand a month and calm down, would that be good? Would you feel like, oh, that's a big difference, or are you saying to me, I want to spend 15 grand a month?

[B]

Oh, just maybe, like, permission to, like, you know, go to Europe for this?

[A]

You know, give yourself permission to go to Europe. Catherine, what is your problem? Why are you so mean to yourself?

[B]

Worried about, you know, like, being responsible for all these little people and making sure that they're.

[A]

Well, wait a minute. I don't got to worry about those two older ones. They're done, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are they launched for real?

[B]

No. I mean, there's. There's still ones in college and ones in high school, but they're, they're mostly with their other parent.

[A]

Well, the other parent. Is that other parent really rich?

[B]

I hope pretty. Yes.

[A]

Okay, great. That makes it a lot easier for me. I like, if you're going to have an ex, I'd have. I'd rather have a rich one than a poor one. Let me be great.

[B]

Yes, I agree.

[A]

So I get it. Four kids is a lot. It's three more than Mark has put that in perspective. However, you don't spend that much money. Okay.

[B]

No. And that's not including my partners. We kind of have a joint account that we put money into and then just kind of split things. So that does not include his monthly expenses. But as I think we age, we'll combine those more and more once the kid responsibilities are diminishing and, you know, for cutting back for work, I think that would be in lieu of a lot of childcare is kind of the trait off there. Because a lot, you know, when you work full time is going to childcare.

[A]

But, like, you have a lot of money, right? What's the freak out here? I get. I'm really, I'm sort of a little mystified. You've got 2 million, you know, 2.2, 2.3. You got like $2.3 million available to you. You've got a bunch of money that is in retirement. Even if, like, if you said to me, oh, well, would it be surprising if your partner spent like, let's just say that you spend ten grand a month, and let's say your partner spent Five grand a month. Do you think that that would be about the right amount?

[B]

Probably, yeah. That's probably. Yeah.

[A]

How much could he be spending? Like, he doesn't have the four kids he has. Right? You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so it seems to me that on 15 grand a month, okay, you make good money. He's going to keep working. He's got a pension. You've already saved money. So what I'd like you to think about is what's the priority for you? Is it to work less and therefore you won't have to spend more, or is it to keep the pedal going down on that accelerator and just keep earning the money but be able to spend a little more money? I think that's the compa. I think that's the. The. The real question that we're asking. How part of it is more important?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I guess is this enough retirement savings to. If I don't, you know, use it just for it to grow and not have to, like, if the next endeavor would not have, you know, if I could not save for retirement in a next endeavor, is that enough to grow and, you know, be able to retire? You know, maybe not when he does, but, you know, in the next 10 years or. Or at least do things that are fun, you know, like.

[A]

Who says you don't get to have fun? So, Mark, I'm just doing some quick math here. I don't know if you heard everything, but if Catherine wanted to basically take a job, that would be not 186,000, maybe not even ever put any more money in retirement, and she was looking to generate eight grand a month. We're going to use the eight for right now. Do you think she has enough money saved so that she can, like, actually have a job that's a much more meaningful job, scale back a little bit in time, make less money? Will all of that money, do you think, be enough for her to live this life that she'd like to live 100%? I mean, she's very close to being there right now. Unbelievable. Okay, so what you're. Are you hearing that? Hold on, Catherine. We got that. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, that's great.

[A]

Here's what we're not including. We're not really even including your husband's pension right this second. We're not including any money or any savings that you have together that, like, it would be. I think it will be a lot easier to look at this once you guys get married to, like, push it all together and get a better picture of, like, what's happening because he's got a million and a half dollars that I didn't even put in that equation. He's got the $6,000 a month pension. Like, all that's going to happen. You think that, like, you're not going to get married to not, like, actually share and live your. You have a lot of money. So then the next question for you guys is, what would this change really look like in the real life? Would it mean if you were to get a job and you said a different job, where I was like, how much money would a different job be? And are you really sure? Because sometimes I've talked to women who do this all the time. They're like, I'm going to go part time. And it's like they go part time, but it's actually terrible because they end up working full time, getting paid half as much. So what is it that we're talking about from 186 to 180? What?

[B]

Oh, that's. I mean, that's a great question. I have. No, I mean, maybe half.

[A]

So 90 grand?

[B]

Yeah, that just. That's a guesstimate.

[A]

Okay. And so if it were 90 grand and you could do something better, you're 90 and his 145 could pay your bills. Fair enough. Like he's going to keep putting his money, but you're not going to make any contributions to retirement. You're just going to say, I'm going to make my 90. That's all I'm going to make. Is that what we're trying, right? We're going to try to test that theory that 235 is going to be your new combined salary. You live on the same, whatever it is. Ten, you say eight or nine. I'm just going to put it together like you're living on 10 or 12 grand a month between the two of you, maybe more. Maybe it's 13 or 14. You can do that. That works. What I don't think you can do is say, oh, well, you know, what I'm really going to do is I want to spend 20 grand a month and also make 90 grand a year. So I think it's going to be one or the other. It's either you're going to scale back your earnings and no longer contribute to retirement and see how that goes and maybe spend a little bit more money. Like, could you spend ten grand a month? Sure. But I think it really requires you guys to sit down and look at this together. If you are married and say, like, well, what are we spending. What's the real number and what are we talking about here? And when we lump all of our taxable and retirement assets together, we have, you know, I'm going to ballpark it because, you know, let's say it's maybe a four and a half million dollars together, and then it's like a silly conversation. Of course you can do whatever you want to do, but we need to really get a fuller picture of a. What your real spend is together and also what your total assets are together. And if it were just you and you had four kids and you told us this story, you know, I think that I would say you could still do it. You know, if you're saying I want to spend ten grand a month on the money I've accumulated, I think what we're saying is, yeah, you can do that, but it might not be everything you want. It may be. Catherine, when you guys get married and ever you push everything together and you test this out and you give us a holler back after that happens. Yeah, sure, it works beautifully, but I feel like we have like two thirds of the story and not the whole story yet.

[B]

All right, sounds good.

[A]

Is there anything else? I mean, obviously once you get married, you need to update all these estate documents. You got to make sure you do everything the right way. Is there anything else that you feel like you're contemplating that we should know about?

[B]

No. I have been waiting to update estate documents until we get married just because I would have to do it again anyways. It seems like.

[A]

Exactly. Right. I think you can do what you want to do. I don't want you to, like, be in a terrible place where you're, like, you're spent, you know? So I think you should try to really work hard together. To say, like, is it really the job I have and the amount of time I'm spending, or is it like, I just don't give myself permission to spend even with this job? I think that those are questions that we need to answer.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Feels to me, just as you're giving us the story, that things are great. You're young, you're happy, like, enjoy yourselves. You've got a bunch thing going on. You're good. So I. I think it's all right. So if you could take a deep breath and get us a little more information, maybe you get back in touch with us with the fiance on the line and we'll pump him for information.

[B]

Okay, Sounds good.

[A]

Very nice. All right, thanks for getting in touch with us.

[B]

All right, thank you.

[A]

If you want another set of eyes and ears on your situation? All you need to do is go to our website jillonmoney.com click the contact Us button, write us a note and if to you'd like like to join us live, check the box. Mark does everything else. Why don't you just go ahead and bookmark the website because that way whenever you have a question that arises, we'll be able to help you out. It's Friday and that means we're going to do some business. And thank yous. Our music is composed by Joel Goodman. Mark Talercio is our executive producer. He's also the king of all things web. We are distributed by the fine folks at Odyssey. By the way, you can subscribe to this podcast and our weekend show Money Watch on the Odysee app or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth. Change your life. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you on Monday.

[C]

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[B]

There's this little bit of wisdom people say all the time, you know, that you should live in the moment. Let me tell you something, there is nothing worse than being forced to live in the moment.

[C]

The Moth Podcast features real people telling their stories live on stage to connect and learn from them. Follow and listen to the Moth on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.