Can We Cut Back Our Savings Rate?

Summary

Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Episode Title: Can We Cut Back Our Savings Rate?
Release Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Jill Schlesinger, CFP®
Guest: Donnie from Pennsylvania (repeat caller)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jill welcomes back Donnie from Pennsylvania, who recently completed a home renovation funded by a home equity loan. Donnie, together with his wife, now wonders whether they can afford to scale back their aggressive savings rate and enjoy more of their earnings or if that would jeopardize their long-term security. The episode dives deep into the trade-offs between saving, enjoying life now, and planning for the future, all through the lens of holistic financial planning.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Donnie's Financial Background and Update

[03:28 – 05:09]

• Previously, Donnie called in about financing a home renovation with debt versus saving up.
• The family borrowed money, completed renovations, and are very happy with the result.
• Lived with friends during the renovation—still friends after!
• Donnie: “We’ve been back in our house for three months. … We are very much still friends, thank goodness.” [03:51]

2. Income and Work Structure

[05:18 – 06:21]

• Both Donnie (35) and his wife (36) are nurses, working 2x 12-hour shifts per week (part-time).
• Base combined income: $140k, but Donnie often picks up extra shifts to bring income up to $160k–$180k.

3. Retirement and Savings Strategy

[06:52 – 07:47]

• Retirement savings vehicles: 403(b) (Roth), 401(a), HSA, and Roth IRAs.
• Total saved for retirement: $460,000 (approx. $250k in workplace plans, $210k in other Roths and HSA).
• No taxable brokerage account; only about $10k in liquid savings, working on building this up.

4. Liabilities and Cash Flow

[07:53 – 09:22]

• Home valued at ~$700k; primary mortgage: $350k @ 4.5% (30 years).
• Home equity loan for renovation: $170k @ 6.5% (11 years left).
• No other investments; current expenses about $8,000/month (all-in).

5. College Funding and Trade-Offs

[08:49 – 09:36]

• No 529 plans yet; weighing options (employer-tied tuition, Roth IRA withdrawals for education).
• Donnie doesn’t want to sacrifice lifestyle or work longer just to fund college at all costs.
• “Life is really a series of trade-offs.” —Jill, [09:36]

6. Retirement Projections and Concerns

[12:31 – 13:52]

• Mark (producer/CFP): On track for $2.5–$3 million by retirement if they continue current habits.
• Caution: 30 years is a long time and market conditions can change; should not take success for granted.
• Jill expresses slight hesitation and advises not to reduce savings too far:
  “Maybe we’d like you to put a little more money away.” —Jill, [13:52]
• Mark: “I wouldn’t stop saving altogether…” [14:00]

7. Current Pain Points and Planning Flexibility

[14:11 – 15:05]

• Since taking on the loan, they’ve paused Roth IRA contributions (about $14k/year).
• $1,500 monthly leftover goes toward rebuilding emergency savings.
• Donnie struggles with not being able to save more, but wants to balance lifestyle and work.

8. Advice from Jill and Mark

[15:05 – 18:22]

• Jill: Build up emergency savings to $40k (given their expenses).
• Extra shifts are the real “game changer” for flexibility.
• Saving at higher income provides more options for future needs.
• “The extra shift today pays such massive returns in the future.” —Jill, [17:39]
• Don’t raid the Roths for college; that’s likely to set the plan back.
  Mark: “Be careful…about raiding the Roths to pay for college.” [18:24]

9. Long-Term Planning and Optionality

[18:22 – 20:05]

• Save more today for more future options (Plan B), but enjoy life within reason.
• Preserve retirement accounts and keep re-evaluating as circumstances change.
• Future windfalls (e.g., family business) or increased income may open the door to college saving or other goals.
• Jill emphasizes importance of “optionality”—not locking oneself into a rigid plan, but having flexibility.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jill: “Life is really a series of trade-offs.” [09:36]
• Mark: “I wouldn’t stop saving altogether. … You know, how do things feel? Do you feel tight?” [14:00]
• Jill: “The extra shift today pays such massive returns in the future.” [17:39]
• Mark: “Be careful, very careful, about raiding the Roths to pay for college, because that’ll set you back.” [18:24]
• Jill: “I always like the idea of a little plan B. And plan B, to me, is like, socking away a little bit of extra money.” [17:39]
• Donnie: “We have flexible positions… I can go less part time, I can go more full time… I think the flexibility to just keep rolling like we are—it’s working.” [10:52 – 11:20]
• Jill: “It’s good to be in a place where you’re happy in your dwelling. I think that’s incredibly important.” [19:36]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Listener reintroduction & recap: [03:23 – 03:59]
• Detailed income and savings breakdown: [05:32 – 07:47]
• Liabilities & home equity loan details: [07:53 – 08:16]
• Discussion on college funding strategies: [08:49 – 09:36]
• Financial projections with Mark: [12:31 – 13:52]
• Advice on savings and increasing income: [15:05 – 18:22]
• Emphasis on flexibility & optionality: [18:22 – 20:05]
• Closing encouragement: [20:05 – 20:12]

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Summary

This episode offers relatable, practical advice for families juggling aggressive savings, loan payments, and the desire to enjoy today—all delivered with Jill and Mark’s signature frankness and compassion. Listeners are reminded that financial planning is an ongoing process, full of trade-offs and requiring flexibility. Donnie’s story represents a typical financial crossroad: when, how, and if to pull back from saving aggressively—and what that means for long-term peace of mind.

Jill and Mark advocate for maintaining healthy contributions (especially when higher earnings are possible), resisting the temptation to raid retirement for college, and keeping cash reserves robust. Ultimately, their advice is clear: a little extra effort today buys security—and freedom—down the road.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

I Do with My Money? An original podcast from Morgan Stanley. And like Jill on Money, this podcast makes understanding money and getting advice about what to do with it less intimidating. You'll hear candid conversations from people just like you who have money questions just like yours. They talk to experienced financial advisors about their goals, worries and dreams, asking questions like, can I retire early? Like really early? How do I leave a financial legacy for my special needs child? Menopause is making me feel wacky and it's shifting how I think about my money.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Welcome to the Jill on Money show. It's Friday, September 26th and we are here trying to help you navigate your financial journey. So many different ways to get where you want to go. We understand that lot of different competing forces. There's emotional stuff, there's financial stuff. You don't have to do this alone. We are here to help you out. Both Mark and I are certified financial planners. And Mark, I just ordered all of my continuing education for the CFP board and it's quite expensive to renew $575. So thanks CFP board for that. That CFP, it's just not three letters that are meaningless. They do mean something. It means that, you know, we're trying to take a holistic approach to how you view your own financial life. And so as we look ahead and we look at all different ways to get where you want to go. A holistic approach is one that I really believe in pretty strongly. I'm not a CFP in practice. I keep, I maintain it, but you know, I'm not in a business like that. I'm just a media talking head. Mark Same so we don't, we're not trying to sell anything. Except, of course, maybe we're trying to sell subscriptions to our. To our Jill on Money service, where you are able to. Our Jill on Money Live, where you have access to quarterly live webinars. That's 45 bucks for the next 12 months. Other than that, not so much. Sign up for our free weekly newsletter at our website, jillonmoney.com while you're there. If you've got a question, just go to the upper right hand corner, click that contact us button, write us a note, and if you want to come on the program, then all you need to do is check the box. Mark does everything else. Today we are joined by Donnie from Pennsylvania, who is still so excited about his Eagles. Although, you know, Donnie and I just had a long conversation about the Tush Push. Anyone who's not a football fan doesn't know what that is, but we'll do a different show about that. Donnie, welcome to the show. Actually, welcome back. Because you've been on the program before, right?

[C]

I have, yes. Thanks for having me back.

[B]

So what's going on? What do we do? The first time you were on.

[C]

So we were looking at borrowing some money versus waiting a couple years to save for a home renovation based on, you know, our income, our debts and stage of life. And we decided on doing it, and we are beyond happy still. We've been back in our house for three months. We lived out out of our house for four months with friends of ours, and we've been back in for three months.

[B]

So are you still friends with those people?

[C]

We are. We are very much still friends, thank goodness. Yes.

[B]

Wonderful. Okay, so you did the renovation already. So what brings you back?

[C]

So, you know, looking at expenses, and obviously, you know, you gotta pay for the stuff that you do. So we decided to borrow the money instead of waiting a couple years. And we didn't really have many debts, which was great. So adding this one was really the only one that we were adding. So I'm kind of reevaluating finances and making these home equity loan payments every month and looking at our investments and thinking to myself, we have a ton of, well, I feel like a significant amount of money that we were delaying that we said, let's put as much money in here early before we have kids or while our kids are young, so that the compound interest can do the heavy lifting. And we're kind of at the point now where, you know, with the bull market that's still continuing, you know, I'm looking at the amount and I'M saying, oh, wow. This is using the rule of 72 or even the Coast Fi, which I'm not like all in or all out of. Even if we don't contribute another dime, we're going to project it to have a couple million dollars still at age 65. So I'm thinking to myself, man, maybe I don't have to be as aggressive anymore. Maybe I can enjoy some more things. Maybe I got to get that minivan that we need, you know, stuff like that. So.

[B]

Well, I mean. Okay, so take a deep breath. I love where we are. You are how old?

[C]

35.

[B]

And how old is your wife?

[C]

She's 36.

[B]

Okay, and you said you've got some kids. How many?

[C]

We have a six year old, a seven year old and a one year old.

[B]

Oh boy, you're busy. Okay, you're both working or are one or the other at home full time? What's the story?

[C]

We both work part time and we're in the medical field, so we do shift work. So we both work two 12s, 12 hour shifts a week.

[B]

Wow. Okay. And what is your combined income?

[C]

So just on that base and not working any extra shifts. It's about 140.

[B]

Okay, between the two of you, does that mean you're contractors or are you full time employees?

[C]

No, we're full time employees or we're part time employees at a, at a health network. And yeah, I mean we've both been nurses for 11 years, so it's been a while. Yeah. So I mean I do pick up a lot of extra when I say a lot of extra, probably one eight hour shift a week, but it's, it makes a significant impact. It goes from 140 a year, takes us up to 160, 180 pretty quickly.

[B]

So when you do that like you say 140, but you're really making more like 160, 180 because you're picking up that extra shift, correct?

[C]

Yeah, 140 is the base to guarantee it, essentially. And.

[B]

Okay. And would you like to be able to continue doing that 160 to 180 together? Like is that, is that a reasonable expectation or you want to see if this all works at 140?

[C]

Yeah. I mean when we did the home renovations and borrowed the money, I made sure that it all worked at the base and we had still a cushion. So that's what we did. So we don't need it. But again, it's, it's sacrifice or enjoy the kids a little more. Who knows?

[B]

Okay. And do you have access to a retirement plan through work or are you putting money away for yourselves because you're contractors?

[C]

Yes, so I have a. I do have a 403B, so I'm technically an employee. I'm, I'm a W2. I'm not a contractor.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So yes, we have a 403B and we have like a 401A, like a shared success plan as well as an HSA.

[B]

Okay, how much is in each of those? Oh, is the 403 pre tax or Roth?

[C]

It's all Roth right now.

[B]

Okay, all Roth. And how much is in there?

[C]

So I usually combine like the 401A and the 403B. So we have about 240, 230, 240 in that.

[B]

Okay. And anything else saved for retirement?

[C]

Yes, between our HSA and our Roth, Roth combination. Roth IRA, we have combined it's 460 total.

[B]

460. Wow.

[C]

I apologize. So it's. We have the 250 in the. The 4 or 3B and then like another 210 and the other combined. So 460 total.

[B]

Okay, so 210. Okay. The house, now that you've done the renovation, how much is that house worth?

[C]

I say conservatively 700.

[B]

So let's talk about the, the original, the mortgage, and then whatever line of credit or loan you got.

[C]

So we owe about 350, and that's at 4.5% for 30 years.

[B]

Okay, and then you've got the loan for the renovation.

[C]

Correct. So the loan is about 170 and that's at 6.5% fixed rate. Okay, that's for the next 11 years.

[B]

Do you have any other investments outside of retirement? 403B, HSA, anything else, like a brokerage account?

[C]

Negative.

[B]

And what about just plain old savings? Boring savings?

[C]

Yeah, I have a. Right now I have about 10,000 in a checking, you know, building that back up a little bit more. But, you know, we just paid real estate taxes, which we do not escrow. I pay yearly and it's one chunk. So stuff like that, that it just comes up and. Yeah, so about 10 grand right now.

[B]

What about these kids? Are we going to put them in college or you just want to like roll the dice and see what happens?

[C]

I'm kind of undecided on that. I. I'm at the point now where we. We haven't been able to decide on a 529. So our current. My two thoughts are, you know, either they're going to continue like their parents in the Medical field and work for a health network, go to their nursing school, get free tuition and then, you know, not have any debt. That's my one thought. My other thought is, all right, the Roths have this much money in it now. In 10 to 15 years, I can pull those contributions out penalty free. And you know, I should have enough in there where that's significant that could pay. Not that I want to do that, but I know that's a possibility.

[B]

Okay. You're not willing to say I will work longer in order to make sure I fund my kids college, is that right?

[C]

Yeah, correct. And I don't want to put the extra time in now just to do that. You know, I want to be with them instead of, you know, doing that.

[B]

I hear you. They want the kegger, you want the time, it's fine. You know, it's everything. Life is really a series of trade offs. How much you guys spend right now, Donnie?

[C]

Currently our expenses are right around 8,000amonth.

[B]

That's pretty good.

[C]

And that includes, you know, all the, all the home equity loan payments, the mortgages pretty much. That's all in.

[B]

Okay, that's great. Parents that you have to take care of?

[C]

Absolutely not. They're both in great condition.

[B]

Oh, will you inherit some money then?

[C]

Yeah, you know, I'm not banking on it. My father's a small business owner. My grandfather started the business. It's kind of like. Have you ever heard of founder syndrome?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[C]

It's kind of that thing where he. I mean, I love my, I love them and he is the reason that the business is like it is, but he's, you know, I'm gonna have to pry it out of his dead hands eventually. That's gonna be the only way to get.

[B]

Okay, I got you. How much longer? I mean, how many years do you think you have in you at this schedule?

[C]

Forever, really? Well, I mean, I work two days a week. When I pick up, when I pick up some shifts, the weeks get longer just because I'm not used to it. But I mean, realistically, my plan was at least until Medicare.

[B]

Okay. So it's at least 65.

[C]

Yeah. And then after that, who knows, you know, I, I fully, I fully expect us to be able to have the problem of, you know, converting from hyper savers to hyper spenders. I know that's a difficult transition. So I, I do anticipate that. But, you know, being that we have flexible positions where I can go part time, I can go less part time, I can go more full time at any point. I Think the flexibility to just keep rolling like we are, and it's working. Just keep doing that.

[B]

That's awesome. When you put money into your retirement accounts, how much are you putting away?

[C]

Every year since doing the home renovation, we are doing 4% on our 403 to get the match, which is a crappy 2%. And then we are maxing out a family HSA each year. So 7,000, give or take.

[B]

Okay, but you're not putting anything else away, right?

[C]

Correct. Not, not, not out of our contribution. We do get a 6% match every year on the 401A plan, but that's not our contribution.

[B]

Okay, but essentially you got 4% into the 403B then, plus a 2% match. Right. So that's 6% and then a 6% in the 401A, which is kind of good because it means you're putting. There's 12% of your. Of this. Let's call it 160,000. That's going into retirement. Right, right.

[C]

Plus HSA, which is probably another 5% of our income.

[B]

Exactly. So this is really. This is great. And you spend eight grand a month, you'll be entitled to Social Security, I presume there's no pension floating around here, right?

[C]

That's correct.

[B]

Okay, so, Mark, I know you're listening to this. I know you've heard the numbers. So there's what? Hello? So just to be clear, there's 250 grand that's already put in this 403B, 401A plus 210. So 460,000 already saved. They're so young. Right. They're 35, 36 years old. The money that's going in is 12% of this 160 grand a year of salary, and it's growing. And these guys are workers, right? They got 30 years to go. So, Mark, given the money that they've saved already, and by the way, of course, in 11 or 12 years, when the, when the loan part goes away of the. The renovation, then you'll have that extra money to contribute to the retirement in the future. Right. Or maybe the 529, but we'll see. How do you think they're doing, Mark, given that Donnie and Marie in Pennsylvania over there, how do you think they're doing?

[D]

They're doing well. You know, we're talking about 30 years from now. That's a long time. A lot. A lot of things can change. Yes, they're on track. You know, Donnie's using a 7% return. I usually use a little bit less So I would say they're on track to have somewhere between two and a half to, you know, 3ish million dollars by the time they're 65, spending $8,000 a month, that could probably generate what they need. At that point they're closer to getting Social Security. So yeah, 30 years out, it looks good.

[B]

But you have, yeah, I hear a little hesitation. I think you're probably thinking what I'm thinking, which is maybe we'd like you to put a little more money away.

[D]

Yeah, I wouldn't stop saving altogether. I mean, I would try and still put some more money away. I mean, how do things feel? Like, do you feel tight? Do you feel strapped? Like, what's the deal?

[C]

I don't necessarily. We don't feel tight. The hard thing is since moving back in and starting those loan payments, we've stopped our both Roth IRA contributions. So, you know, that's, that's 14 grand ish a year. So I feel like I'm missing out on that. We're never going to stop the match. We're never going to stop the, you know, the HSA max out. We're never going to stop the 401A that we get contributed. So I know that's never going to end. Like I'm never going to give that up. But it's giving up that, you know, two Roth IRAs every year is painful to look at, you know, and no, I can't like recontribute that. But everything else feels okay. You know, we have about, you know, fifteen hundred dollars, give or take, left over each month. And I'm using that to build up the emergency savings. But you know, at some point I don't know if I want to, you know, put that to work somewhere else or, you know, who knows if I'm going to need another car or my kids are going to have more expenses as they get older. You know, a lot of things like that.

[B]

Well, I would say this, I would use that. I would think about that. Build up your savings. I think you build the savings up, you go from 10 to like, you know, 40ish, you're going to need 40 grand in there, don't you think? I mean like, you spend real money, eight grand a month. If you want to kind of move ahead and get ahead of this a little bit. What I would be thinking about is if each of you could do that extra shift, that really is probably the game changer. If we're not talking about 140 and we're talking about 180, that's the real deal. That's when you build yourself some flexibility. I think if you did that and you use that extra shift is like the money for the car and to jumpstart your savings and then eventually to put the money back in the Roth, I think that's where you buy yourself some flexibility. I agree with Mark. I don't think that. I mean, of course, 30 years, who knows? And the market's doing great now. But what if we go into this, like, protracted, boring period where it's like, well, you're not getting, you're not getting 10, 12% returns. We're getting like 3% returns. And so, you know, that can happen. And I'm not saying it will. I'm just saying it could. If that's the case, then if you want to build in a little security to your plan, you would look at that $1500 as the differential of like, having more options rather than fewer options. So do you want to add that extra shift today and have a little bit more comfort and maybe build up the asset level a little bit more? That would be my suggestion. If not, I think you can keep retesting the numbers also and see if this does work. You know, I think people get a little bit tantalized when we say to you, hey, you know, it's two and a half or $3 million, that's great, but, you know, that 8,000 is also has to grow with inflation. So, you know, it's not, it's not all like, you know, rainbows and unicorns. Right. So we have to make sure that we can do this. And it is, it is probably doable. But I would feel more comfortable if the income were not 140, but closer to the 180. Would your wife do the extra shift or not?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I make more money than her based on the nature of my position. But yeah, I mean, I, again, I'm still consistently picking it up. It's not like something I plan on stopping. It's just, you know, I think the nature of knowing I can pick it up and not picking it up is just as painful as, you know, killing myself for, you know, I could work every day of every week for the a month and make, you know, 25, 30 grand extra just to get a buffer. But the pain of that is almost just as bad as picking up, you know, the shifts. So it's.

[A]

I, I hear that.

[B]

I really do. I don't want to, I don't want to overstate that, you know, that there are trade offs. I I really, I do. I understand that. I don't want to be silly, okay. But I, like always, I was just talking to a friend of mine at work before, and I said, you know, I always like the idea of a little plan B. And plan B to me is like socking away a little bit of extra money, because the more money you sock away today. I get it, you want to spend time with your family. But, like, the, the extra shift today pays such massive returns in the future. So that's why I. And I think Mark also has that sense of, gee, it would really be easier if. On yourself if you could do this.

[C]

So I agree, I agree.

[D]

And I would be careful, very careful about raiding the Roths to pay for college, because that'll set you back.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Yeah, right. And I mean the college thing, you can also make a decision. Look, in a few years, it might be that you are in a place where you're like, you know what? I don't really need to worry about this. Like, I'm. The kids are good. I have a better sense of who they are, or I do want to worry about, you know, like, that's what I mean. I just want you to feel comfortable that you are making a decision that gives you plenty of options, truly plenty of options. And I think that would be really. I think that's the most important thing for, from. From my perspective at least. And, you know, presuming you have all your other stuff, you have your wills. Yeah. You have your estate, and you have life insurance. It's insurance awareness month. I think that this is a good plan. And you can see, like, listen, we told you to go ahead and do the renovation. It's good to be in a place where you're like, happy in your dwelling. I really, I think that's incredibly important. But I think that if you want to build in a plan that gives you some more optionality, it's that extra shift, saving a little bit more, preserving the Roth as long as possible and contributing to it. You know, when things go well, listen, if all of a sudden you're like, hey, life is good, I'm making more money. There's a nursing shortage. And now instead of 160, I'm making or 180, I'm making two something, and you can sock extra money away, maybe get back in touch with us, because maybe that is a time where we do think about a 529 plan. I like it for now, just like focusing on retirement. But if that changes, get back in touch with us or you know, if your dad sells the business and, you know, life is, you know, there's all sudden a big, some windfall. We'll talk about it. But I think you've got a good game plan going forward right now, Donnie.

[C]

Yeah, I appreciate that.

[B]

So we'll, we'll see where we are. And you stay in touch with us because you're very loyal and I love that about you.

[C]

I am loyal.

[B]

All right, man. Thanks so much for getting in touch with us. And if you are thinking about whether or not to do a renovation, how it's going to impact your retirement, and maybe you're on the other side of it, maybe you're even thinking about it, get in touch with us. Look what Donnie did. He's. He's back. He's a recidivist caller. It's fantastic. Let us know how we can help you out. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button. Write us that note. If you want to join the show, check the box. Mark does everything else. And don't forget to sign up for the free weekly newsletter comes out every Friday, which is today, as a matter of fact. Fantastic. Okay. Our music is composed by Joel Goodman. Mark Gilliari is our executive producer and king of all things web. We are distributed by Odyssey. Oh, by the way, you can subscribe. Subscribe to us on the Odysee app. Don't forget to lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you on Monday.

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[E]

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