Can We Self-Manage Our Money?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Can We Self-Manage Our Money?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
• Host/Author: Audacy
• Episode: Can We Self-Manage Our Money?
• Release Date: April 8, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger, host Jill Schlesinger delves into the topic of self-managing personal finances. The episode features a listener call from Miriam, a late retiree seeking advice on whether to continue managing her finances independently or to rely on professional financial advisors. Jill, along with her co-host Mark, provides comprehensive insights and actionable recommendations to help Miriam navigate her financial decisions.

Listener Call: Miriam's Financial Situation

[03:24] Miriam: "I am not very experienced in finances and my husband and I are edging towards a late retirement..."

Miriam from the Pacific Northwest reaches out with concerns about their approaching retirement. Both she (66) and her husband (71) are still working intermittently, primarily due to the seasonal nature of their income sources. Their financial landscape includes:

• Social Security: Husband receives $2,200 monthly; Miriam plans to start at age 70, approximately $1,750 monthly.
• Real Estate: Owns a commercial building valued at $600,000, free of mortgage, with rental income from a cafe and a short-term holiday rental.
• Savings and Investments: $90,000 in a commercial savings account, $40,000 in personal savings, $20,000 in her husband's personal account, and $312,000 in Fidelity accounts (including IRAs).
• Additional Assets: An extra commercial lot valued at $120,000 and a land trust residence paying $800 monthly, inclusive of property taxes.

Miriam seeks advice on whether to accept Fidelity's hybrid advisor role to better manage their finances.

Discussion Highlights

Assessing Financial Health

Jill begins by evaluating Miriam's current financial status, revealing that despite irregular income streams, Miriam and her husband are in a stable position due to low expenses and substantial real estate holdings.

[12:52] Jill Schlesinger: "...you guys have got enough money and the only reason it's looking this way is, you don't spend any money."

Jill emphasizes that their minimal monthly expenses ($4,000) and significant savings contribute to their financial resilience.

Investment Allocation Strategies

The conversation shifts to investment strategies, particularly the allocation of funds between stocks and bonds.

[16:36] Mark: "I don't think they need a ton of risk at this stage of the game. I mean, you know, 50, 50, even 40% stock, 60% bond is fine with me."

[16:48] Miriam: "I'll tell you what the advisor said... 70, 30 is what I was thinking."

Miriam contemplates a more aggressive allocation (70% stocks, 30% bonds) contrary to Mark and Jill’s more conservative suggestions (50-60% stocks). Jill advises against excessive risk, highlighting the potential negative impact of market downturns on their financial security.

[17:03] Miriam: "Is it?"

[17:04] Jill Schlesinger: "Why would you do. Well, I don't know. I don't think you would do it for yourself."

Jill stresses the importance of balancing growth with risk management, especially as they approach retirement.

Self-Managing vs. Financial Advisors

Jill explores the pros and cons of self-managing finances versus hiring a professional advisor.

[19:53] Jill Schlesinger: "Mark. Should they hire an advisor or not?"

[19:56] Mark: "I mean, I don't know. It just depends on her comfort level."

Jill advises that self-management requires discipline to stick to an investment plan, especially during market fluctuations. If Miriam is confident in her ability to adhere to a strategy without getting swayed by market volatility, self-managing could be feasible. However, if she feels uncertain, a financial advisor could provide valuable guidance and emotional support.

[21:55] Jill Schlesinger: "Do you guys have all of your estate documents done?"

Final takeaways include the importance of estate planning and ensuring that all legal documents are in order to secure their financial legacy.

Key Insights and Recommendations

1. Consolidate and Adjust Savings:

   • Shift Funds: Move $20,000 from the CD to short-term cash, increasing accessible funds to $60,000.
   • Increase Brokerage Investments: Add $100,000 to the brokerage account, bringing it to $290,000 for better growth potential.

2. Investment Allocation:

   • Recommend a balanced portfolio of 50% stocks and 50% bonds or 60% stocks and 40% bonds to optimize growth while managing risk.
   • Advise against a 70% stock allocation due to increased vulnerability to market downturns.

3. Utilize Retirement Accounts Strategically:

   • Encourage taking withdrawals from the husband’s retirement account during low-income years to stay within a favorable tax bracket.
   • Suggest leveraging Roth conversion strategies if applicable to optimize tax efficiency.

4. Consider Selling Real Estate Assets:

   • Reevaluate the necessity of holding onto the commercial building and lot.
   • Liquidating these assets could provide additional liquidity and reduce reliance on property income, offering more flexibility for unforeseen expenses.

5. Estate Planning:

   • Emphasize the importance of completing estate documents, including wills and medical directives, to ensure a smooth transfer of assets to heirs.

6. Evaluate the Role of Financial Advisors:

   • If Miriam feels confident and disciplined in managing investments, self-managing could be a viable option.
   • Alternatively, hiring a financial advisor can provide expertise and alleviate the emotional strain of financial decision-making during volatile markets.

[22:55] Jill Schlesinger: "It's worth thinking about. And as you edge towards late retirement, I think the takeaways are get your cash to work, use the money in the retirement account..."

Conclusions

Jill concludes by underlining the significance of proactive financial management, especially for late retirees like Miriam. She encourages evaluating comfort levels with investment strategies and making informed decisions that align with long-term financial security and personal peace of mind.

[23:07] Miriam: "No, I know, I know. We're trying to actually be more proactive at this point."

Jill reinforces the message that whether self-managing or seeking professional help, the key is to have a clear, disciplined plan to navigate the complexities of late-stage retirement finances.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jill Schlesinger [12:52]: "It’s because you don’t spend any money. Right?"

• Miriam [16:48]: "70, 30 is what I was thinking."

• Jill Schlesinger [17:14]: "I totally disagree with that, but that's me."

• Jill Schlesinger [21:55]: "Do you guys have all of your estate documents done?"

• Jill Schlesinger [22:55]: "It's worth thinking about. And as you edge towards late retirement, I think the takeaways are get your cash to work, use the money in the retirement account..."

Final Thoughts

This episode offers valuable insights for late retirees contemplating self-managing their finances. Through Miriam's real-life scenario, Jill and Mark provide practical advice on investment strategies, the role of financial advisors, and the importance of estate planning. Listeners are encouraged to assess their financial situations critically and choose the path that best aligns with their comfort levels and long-term goals.

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For more information or personalized advice, visit jillonmoney.com and connect with the show’s experts.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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Welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It's Tuesday, April 8th, and yeah, I have a raspy voice. I went to an event last night and the cocktail hour, it was like a charitable event cocktail hour, it was like 1,000 degrees and then the ballroom was like minus 1,000 degrees. And so I went from heat to cold, which is basically the weather we've had here in New York City for the last few days. So, Mark, how are you? How's your voice?

[Mark]

You tell me, how's my voice?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Sounds great. So excited. Do you want to do any of the stuff or do you want me to do it all with my raspy voice?

[Mark]

What was that?

[Jill Schlesinger]

You got to keep making me talk. So anyway, gang, I'm going to try to limit how much I am talking today. I will listen in intently, but if you've got a question, go to our website, jillonmoney.com click the contact us button, write us a note, and Mark, what happens at that moment when you get the box where someone says, I want to be on the air, what do you do next?

[Mark]

I have a couple categories that I throw people into, depending on what kind of question they're asking and some of the details of the person asking the question. And then, you know, then they're in the queue.

[Jill Schlesinger]

They're in the queue and Mark makes it happen. While you are on the website waiting to get to the front of the queue, if you have like a deadline, obviously make that known. We had somebody who had to make a decision within two days of getting a buyout offer. So do that with us. Make sure we know that. But while you're on the website, sign up for the free weekly newsletter comes out every Friday. And check out all the content that lives there. You know the drill. Hey, let's get to the listener. Miriam is on the line with us. She is from the Pacific Northwest. Good morning, Miriam. What can we do for you today?

[Miriam]

Well, I am not very experienced in finances and my husband and I are edging towards a late retirement, not an early retirement. And most of our funds are in Fidelity. I am wondering if I should, because I have such limited knowledge with finances, if I should really take the offer of the hybrid advisor role that Fidelity is offering me. We've met with a financial advisor there three times now. You know, just trying to figure out what might be best. I really just want some outside advice. So I'd appreciate any, any input that you guys have.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Sure. How old are you, miriam?

[Miriam]

I am 66.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And your husband?

[Miriam]

He's 71.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you guys are both still working?

[Miriam]

Yes, we're both still working.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much money do you earn right now?

[Miriam]

Right now? Zero.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What do you mean zero? You said you're still working, you don't make money, right?

[Miriam]

Well, because primarily we live in a tourist driven area and we're coming up on the tourist season.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, I see.

[Miriam]

Our, our money because of, of our life, our living, that I'm an artist and he owns a cafe. Our money is kind of hit and miss. It's not like we have a regular salary. Sometimes we earn.

[Jill Schlesinger]

If you look at, if you look at 2024, the taxes that you just filed, what was the earning? What, what, what amount of money did you earn last year?

[Miriam]

In 2024, we didn't earn any money. But in years prior we've done quite well.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Huh. This is very odd. Okay, has your husband, is he Collecting Social Security?

[Miriam]

He is.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is that? You made that money, right?

[Miriam]

It's about 2,200.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And what about you? Are you collecting yet or no?

[Miriam]

No, I'm not. I'm not going to collect till I'm 70.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, and at 70, what will that amount be?

[Miriam]

About 1,750.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So how are you supporting yourselves? You've got his Social Security. What else? In terms of like how you are paying your bills, are you pulling money from a portfolio?

[Miriam]

No, I'm not pulling money from a portfolio. Because we own a commercial building. We have extensive kind of cash savings associated with keeping that afloat. That's how. That's how we kind of live in the off season.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I see. And how much is that commercial building worth?

[Miriam]

That commercial building is worth about 600,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is there a mortgage on it?

[Miriam]

No, we own it outright.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, in that building is. Is that where the cafe is?

[Miriam]

Correct.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And are there other renters in there?

[Miriam]

We have one other renter in there. And we also have a like short term holiday rental in there as well. And also my art studio is in the same building.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so in an annual, on an annualized basis, how much money does the commercial building take in directly to us?

[Miriam]

Our current renter is only paying about $475 a month, something like that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, got it. How much money do you have in the commercial Savings account?

[Miriam]

About 90,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, and what about your own savings? Like just your personal, not the commercial building?

[Miriam]

Right. I personally have 40,000, maybe a little bit more than that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You and your husband or do you have separate.

[Miriam]

No, we have separate account.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And what does he have?

[Miriam]

I added his number into the commercial and probably for his personal. I think he has around 20,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so like 70 and 20 in that commercial. Okay, gotcha. What about. So tell us what's at Fidelity.

[Miriam]

At Fidelity overall. And of course it's changing rapidly. Yes, we have around 312,000. So not a ton. That's including the IRAs.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What's in IRA, what's in non IRAs? Let's break that down a little bit.

[Miriam]

In the brokerage account, there's 190,000 in retirement. I have 102,000 and my husband has 23,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Any other assets outside of the commercial? I'll get your personal residence in a second. But the commercial building, two savings accounts, the Fidelity brokerage, the retirement accounts, any other assets?

[Miriam]

Yeah, we have 120,000 in a CD that will be, you know, we'll need to do something with it at the end of June.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh. Coming up. Okay. All right. Now, what about your house? What's that worth?

[Miriam]

We live in a land trust, so we don't outright own our house, but we have what's called a renewable lease. A 99 year renewable lease. And so we pay approximately about 800amonth for a house that we helped build. Then our daughter will also be able to inherit that. Wow. I don't know that she'll want to, but that'll be an option when we die.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, this is fascinating to me. So if you were to pass away, you two, and your daughter inherits it, but she says, I don't want it. Is there any terminal value to that lease?

[Miriam]

No. The whole idea about the land trust is that you're not making a profit with the sale. It's to keep the. Keep the whole thing affordable for anyone else buying into the land trust. And we really like that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's cool. That's very cool. I mean, also, by the way, it's very affordable for you, right? I mean, $800 a month. Pretty awesome, right?

[Miriam]

Yeah, no, it is.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Does that also include your property taxes or not?

[Miriam]

Yes, that includes everything.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my gosh. Incredible.

[Miriam]

Yeah. Another thing I didn't mention is our. We have an additional commercial lot next to our building, and that's worth about 120,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is there any reason we should keep that?

[Miriam]

Well, we like it. And it's being used right now with my husband's cafe. It's being used, but as like an outside eating area.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, I got it. So you've got. It would appear, low expenses. Do you have any idea what your total spending is?

[Miriam]

It's less than 4,000amonth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's less than 4,000AMONTH. So let's just. Can we call it 4,000amonth?

[Miriam]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Miriam]

And that's pretty much the number I gave to the advisor from Fidelity.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So essentially Your husband has $2,200 a month of Social Security. So a little more than half of what your need is. I know it's pre tax, but that's. That's about right. And, and then let's just pretend you guys both retired right now. Explain to me what happens to the commercial building and the lot.

[Miriam]

Like, what would happen, assuming that we're both in good health. And we are right now.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. You're like, okay, we're done. We're just exhausted. We're done.

[Miriam]

We are going to rent out those spaces and create an additional living space upstairs that we can rent out on a month to month basis. So ideally, the building Will bring in maybe 3,000amonth, something like that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is there any thought to saying, well, we have $720,000 locked up in equity in these two properties, Right. The building and the lot. Have you given any thought to selling them?

[Miriam]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And what's the argument against it? Because I would presume having the access to that money might be very handy, especially as you get older.

[Miriam]

Right. And also then I could give our daughter some money for her future building project.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Totally.

[Miriam]

Yeah. I.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How old's your daughter? I'm sorry?

[Miriam]

Almost 40.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. She married? Single. Was she.

[Miriam]

She's single, but she has a good job. She's on her own.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Single with good job. Okay, I like that. I mean, look, you've got a bunch of money. When you met with the financial advisor, tell me what they told you about the situation you're in right now.

[Miriam]

They told us that we could eventually retire. Because actually, I was thinking we were never going to be able to retire. And our goal is to. He wants to retire at 75 and I do too, and he's five years older. What she suggested was that we allocate our funds differently than how they're currently allocated now. And in that, taking more cash because we have quite a lot in short term and putting it more into stock and that that would allow us to raise. Yeah. We grow.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right?

[Miriam]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. I mean, look, I think you're in very good shape. I would.

[Miriam]

That's shocking to me.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, I do. It's only. It's because you don't spend any money. Right?

[Miriam]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You have very low expenses. So if you spend. Let's just. Let's look at two different scenarios. One is you've got the brokerage account, you got the retirement. What level of cash makes you feel comfortable? Like, don't do the commercial savings. Like your savings. Plus what amount of money do we need to have that makes you feel comfortable? 50 grand? 100 grand? What is it?

[Miriam]

If we didn't have the commercial building?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Just in general.

[Miriam]

Like, in general?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah.

[Miriam]

We came up with a number of about 55,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so let's think about it this way. The CD comes due, you already have 40 grand in savings, right?

[Miriam]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So let's just say that you. In the short term cash, let's say you put 60, you take of the CD, you say, let me take 20 grand of the CD that comes due. Right. And put it in our short term cash. So then Instead of having 40 grand, you have 20 grand from the CD and now you have 60 grand and everyone's happy.

[Miriam]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Then you take the 100 and you add it to your brokerage account. So now Instead of having 190 in your brokerage account, you have 290 in your brokerage account. Right?

[Miriam]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And then the brokerage account and the retirement account, we'll talk about the allocation, but those are kind of your. That's the ability for you to kind of pull some money out. Maybe it's. We'll take some money, a little bit of money. Especially in a year where you're not earning any money, like last year when you didn't earn any money. I'm hopeful that you took some of the money out of the retirement account and just had it taxed at a really low level. That's could have. Would be ideal for you if you have another year where you have, like, very low earnings. Like, let's just say the cafe breaks even, makes a little bit of money. You don't send a bit, you don't sell any art. But you know, you have essentially, I don't know, you have his Social Security. Maybe you're making like 50 grand all in. Okay. In that kind of a year, you should be pulling money out of the retirement account. Another, say 30 or 40 grand. That keeps you in the 12% tax bracket and you can live on that money. And you know he's gonna have to start taking money out of his retirement account soon. And the requirement of the tax code is RMDs have to come out. Right. So in a year when you don't make any very low income, I would seek to take money out of the retirement account, use that money to live on. You don't have to, like, dip into any of these other things. Just use that money and make it very easy. And then, frankly, if he did that for the next four years, maybe five, depending on what his story is, but, like, you just don't need that much money. You could pull a little bit of money out of your retirement accounts together over time, and that'll supplement his Social Security, then your Social Security. Right. Four years from now, and you'll be in very good shape. And presumably you won't really even have to touch the brokerage account at all. So that's kind of what I'm thinking. Now, obviously, if you were to do this yourself, you would have to have some sort of allocation game plan. I'm going to have Mark walk in to this conversation with us now. Mark, stop eating your almonds or your cashews, whatever you're doing mixed nuts today. Oh, it's mixed nuts. Okay, very good. Mark, what do you think an allocation could be for a brokerage account that would be worth, let's just call it almost $300,000 for these folks. What do you think?

[Mark]

I don't think they need a ton of risk at this stage of the game. I mean, you know, 50, 50, even 40% stock, 60% bond is fine with me.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How do you feel about that level of risk? Miriam?

[Miriam]

I'll tell you what the advisor said.

[Jill Schlesinger]

She said, I want to hear from you first.

[Miriam]

From me? Yeah, I'm actually comfortable with more risk.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, look at you. She's a player. Okay, so like, how much more?

[Miriam]

70, 30 is what I was thinking.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's crazy.

[Miriam]

Is it?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Why would you do. Well, I don't know. I don't think I wouldn't do it for myself.

[Miriam]

Okay, well, that's good.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I would do mostly. What did your. What did the advisor say?

[Miriam]

She suggested also 70, 30.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I totally disagree with that, but that's me. Maybe you. I guess you could do that. But like, let's just presume it's three months from now and your $300,000 is worth. You make the allocation changes and now your 300 turns into 220. How do you feel about that?

[Miriam]

Yeah, well, that doesn't make me feel as comfortable. Ideally right now is what I thought we would have more risk and then as we edge towards retirement, to have less. But.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, you don't even need to take the risk. What's the point? I guess I really don't quite get why. Because your risk is. Your downside risk is a much more significant risk for you than your upside potential. So, like, I don't think you're going to spend all your money. Honestly, I don't know. I wouldn't do it because at this point you can like basically have this thing grow over time, have a nice balanced portfolio. Even if you decide to go 60 stocks, 40 bonds. Let's just say you do that and it grows and it grows and it grows. And let's say, you know, in five years that it is worth not 300,000, but it's worth. I don't know, let's just call it 350. Right. And let's say your 70, 30, had you done it, would be. Instead of 350 would be. I'm just making up numbers now, 400. The extra return that you would get on the upside actually is not meaningfully going to change your life. But if we go into a long protracted bear market which spooks you and It's a recession. So your real estate isn't worth as much, your accounts aren't worth as much, your business sucks. All those things happen at once. It would seem to me that that is a risk that is far more impactful on your lives than the upside potential. What do you think?

[Miriam]

Yeah, I think that's a good point. Currently we have about 37 in domestic, 4 in foreign, 11 in bonds and 46 in short term, so.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, yeah, the 46 is too much.

[Miriam]

I get too much. Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

My 2 cents would be the most amount of risk I would have would be 60 in stocks and 40 in bonds. I'd probably be more comfortable at 50, 50. And it certainly makes sense that when the CD comes due and when you add that money to the brokerage account, you start to create an allocation that looks more like 50, 50 or 60, 40. And you can do that with index funds. Now, we talked about at the beginning, you said, do I really need this advisor? Are you willing to shoulder the risk of getting this done? Meaning that are you going to stick to this game plan or are you going to get freaked out if the market goes down?

[Miriam]

No, I'm not going to get freaked out.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Mark. Should they hire an advisor or not?

[Mark]

I mean, I don't know. It just depends on her comfort level.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How comfortable, seems like she feels comfortable. I mean, look, try it. Exactly.

[Miriam]

Well, that's what I was thinking. What if I did it for a year and kind of watched? I mean, I am very curious that if I had done it last year, what would this robo advisor or the advisor be doing? Like, would some of my lost money in the downturn have been not lost? I don't know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You know what would happen. We can back test anything. If you were 70, 30, then you would have made money in 2024 and you would have lost more money in the beginning of 2025. But that doesn't mean anything. That's a year. That's a sliver. It's a moment in time. The question is, will you be committed to letting your money do what it can do without messing around with it? See, my only concern about you doing it yourself is that you don't mess around with it if markets start moving against you. That's my main concern. And the other thing I would just point out, because I can and I'm here, it's fine to do it for yourself, you know, on your own, for you. You can see how it goes. Get a plan together to get that money invested when that CD comes due and the you know, you can start putting some of your brokerage account cash to work. I would do it also in the retirement account, making sure you're invested. But I would also be very clear that when that CD comes due, you're going to have to get that money to work. So why don't you commit to saying, I have $100,000, I have to put it to work. It's either going to get done immediately or you're going to dollar cost average putting a certain amount of money into your allocation each month. Right. And you say, by the end of the year, I want to be fully invested. If you feel like you're not going to be able to do that or you're dissuaded by market movements, then working with someone can be really advantageous. It can just get you moving towards your goal. That's. That's what I think is critical. I would not do, I'm sorry to say, 70, 30.

[Miriam]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And also I would very much consider, as you approach your retirement, whether or not your money would be better off being put into a brokerage account rather than being tied up into a commercial property and a commercial lot. Because again, as you get older, you might want that money. You might need that money. If something happened to one of you and you needed care in your home, you wanted to pay for it. You know, there are things that might happen that would require liquidity. You know, I just think it gives you a lot more options. So it's worth thinking about. And as you edge towards late retirement, I think the takeaways are get your cash to work, use the money in the retirement account. Your husband's first, start pulling money out of that account, enough money to keep you in the 12% tax bracket. So for this year, that tax bracket, the top of that is $96,950. Okay. So you pull out enough money, you get that money working for you.

[Miriam]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Like you said, if you want to do it, you want to hire this person, go hire them. But if you don't want to, you want to try it for a year on your own, that's fine. It's totally fine. You know, it's really like, you guys have to make that decision.

[Miriam]

No, I know, I know. We're trying to actually be more proactive at this point. So.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, I mean, I get that. And I would. I just wanted to, you know, point out the obvious, which is, as you enter this period, losses are more meaningful and hurt you more. Like your psyche and your actual life, losses hurt you more than gains, will improve it. That's my leaving you with that message. Hey, do you guys have all of your estate documents done?

[Miriam]

We are working on it. I just finished my will and I'm trying to do all the medical stuff.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, Miriam, thank you so much for joining us. Hey, if you are a late retiree, Mark, I like the idea that we have some people who are not early but late retirees. Hey, get in touch with us. Just go to our website jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, write us a note and if you'd like to join the program live, Mark will do everything else. Just check the box. He's so good like that. If you would like, you can also sign up for our free weekly newsletter and subscribe to Jill on Money Live. For $45 you're going to get not only four live webinars and the back catalog and special audio and video content. You'll also get all these beautiful tax documents that Ed Slott provides. Mark, those might be worth $45 in and of themselves. I'm telling you, they're fabulous. Anyway, you can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Try to do something nice for someone else today. Just change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

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