Combining Finances With My Partner

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Combining Finances With My Partner"

Podcast Information

• Title: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
• Host/Author: Audacy
• Episode: Combining Finances With My Partner
• Release Date: December 24, 2024

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Introduction

In the December 24, 2024 episode of Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger, host Jill Schlesinger delves into the intricacies of merging finances with a partner. This episode features a listener, Jeff from Florida, who seeks guidance on balancing significant financial decisions as he and his partner consider entering the real estate market. Jill offers practical advice to navigate their financial landscape, emphasizing the importance of strategic planning and debt management.

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Caller Background

Jeff's Profile:

• Age: 42
• Partner's Age: 37
• Marital Status: Not married, identifying as DINKs (Double Income, No Kids)
• Income: Approximately $250,000 annually
• Residence: Recently moved to Florida, currently renting to assess the market

Financial Overview:

• Retirement Savings:
  • Jeff: $275,000 (including $70,000 in traditional accounts and $200,000 in Roth accounts)
  • Partner: $15,000 in an IRA
• Other Assets:
  • Taxable Brokerage Account: $300,000 (Jeff's)
  • Cash Reserves: $40,000

Liabilities:

• Student Loan Debt: $88,000 at 6.5% interest
• Pension: Approximately $55,000 annually in today’s dollars
• Housing Expenses: Current rent costs total around $125,000 annually

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Financial Challenges and Considerations

Jeff and his partner are contemplating re-entering the real estate market after a hiatus since 2020. They are exploring the option of utilizing a VA loan, which allows for minimal down payments—potentially as low as 3%. However, several factors raise concerns:

1. Debt Management: The significant student loan debt at a substantial interest rate poses a challenge.
2. Emergency Fund: Currently, they have $40,000 in cash, which may not suffice for an emergency reserve covering 6 to 12 months of living expenses.
3. Retirement Contributions: While Jeff is actively contributing to his retirement accounts and using strategies like the backdoor Roth, his partner is just beginning her retirement savings journey.
4. Potential Job Instability: Jeff anticipates a possible career transition around age 50, which could impact their financial stability.
5. Prudent Spending: Their annual expenses, including rent, consume half of their combined income, highlighting the need for meticulous budgeting.

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Jill’s Expert Advice

1. Tracking and Budgeting ([10:07] - [11:06]): Jill emphasizes the importance of meticulously tracking their spending for 90 days to gain clarity on where their $125,000 annual expenses are allocated. This foundational step is crucial for identifying areas where they can optimize their budget.

2. Building an Emergency Reserve ([12:12] - [12:29]): She advises establishing an emergency fund that covers six to twelve months of living expenses. This safety net will provide financial stability in unforeseen circumstances and reduce the reliance on their brokerage account during transitions.

3. Aggressive Debt Repayment ([15:30] - [19:11]): Given the high-interest student loan debt, Jill recommends prioritizing its repayment. She suggests allocating extra funds from their taxable brokerage account towards paying down these loans to alleviate financial strain and reduce interest burdens.

4. Retirement Contributions ([14:00] - [15:30]): Jill encourages maintaining robust contributions to retirement accounts. For Jeff’s partner, she advises starting with an 8-10% contribution to her 401(k) once eligible, ensuring their retirement savings continue to grow without being compromised by debt.

5. Delaying Home Purchase ([10:21] - [18:49]): Considering their current financial commitments and potential job instability, Jill recommends postponing the decision to purchase a home for another three years. This period will allow them to strengthen their financial foundation, reduce debt, and reassess their long-term stability in Florida.

Notable Quotes:

• Jill Schlesinger: “We need you guys to track your spending for 90 days... Where is this money going? I want to know how this 125,000, because that's a... it's not a huge amount of money, but... we need to track that.” ([10:21])
• Jill Schlesinger: “You have an emergency reserve, debt pay down, retirement, and supplemental retirement for you. And then I table the conversation about a house unless something falls in your lap and it's such a great deal.” ([17:37])

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Discussion and Further Insights

Jeff acknowledges the practicality of Jill's advice but expresses concerns about balancing aggressive debt repayment with maintaining growth in their brokerage account. Jill reassures him by outlining a balanced approach:

• Emergency Fund: Prioritize building this reserve before tackling additional investments.
• Debt Reduction: Apply extra funds towards student loans without derailing retirement contributions.
• Retirement Savings: Continue maximizing retirement accounts to ensure long-term financial security.
• Brokerage Account Management: Use this as a supplemental bridge for future uncertainties, especially considering Jeff’s anticipated pension and Social Security benefits.

Jill also touches on the importance of estate planning, encouraging Jeff and his partner to finalize their will and designate beneficiaries to protect their financial interests.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Jill Schlesinger provides Jeff with a comprehensive financial roadmap tailored to his unique situation. By prioritizing debt repayment, building an emergency fund, and maintaining retirement contributions, Jeff and his partner are well-positioned to achieve financial stability. Delaying the home purchase allows them to solidify their financial base, ensuring that when they do enter the real estate market, they do so from a place of strength.

Final Takeaways:

• Strategic Planning: Essential for couples combining finances, especially when handling significant debts and planning for future investments.
• Debt Management: High-interest debts should be addressed promptly to prevent long-term financial strain.
• Emergency Fund: A critical component of financial security, providing a buffer against unexpected expenses.
• Retirement Savings: Continuous contributions are vital for long-term financial health, even amidst other financial obligations.
• Delayed Gratification: Postponing major financial commitments can lead to better stability and opportunities in the future.

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For more financial insights and personalized advice, visit JillOnMoney.com and subscribe to the Jill on Money podcast on your preferred platform.

Transcript

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[Jill Schlesinger]

Welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It's Tuesday, December 24th. It is Christmas Eve, and for the nice Jewish girl from New York who has adopted Christmas wholeheartedly, I'm psyched. Now, I will just say, Mark, that, you know, usually I do a, a fish thing because I'm married to an Italian Catholic woman and this is what they did. However, a few of our guests who are going to be staying with us are not big fish eaters. So I, I switched my tactics. I said, okay, we're going to do a Christmas Eve barbecue. It's kind of fun. So anyway, that's what I'm doing. There will be no seven fishes. I might, you know, if I'm nice, I might get Jackie a little seafood salad just so she has some. And Mark, what are you preparing for Christmas Eve?

[Mark]

Keeping it simple. I can't do the seven fishes. I don't have the time. I don't have the patience for that. So we're just going to do our usual, which is linguine and clams.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I love linguine and clam sauce. Can you send me your recipe? Because I actually, I am seeking a new recipe. I do it a little. I did it last year. It was good. I felt like I needed a little red pepper kick. So I May have underdone it there. So send me your recipe. All right, so everyone out there, we know this is a crazy short week for many. We're still putting content out every single day throughout the year and the year end and we love that. And we are so appreciative that you spend some time with us. So if you've got a question, just go to the website. Jill, on money.com, click the contact us button. Of course, let us know if you want to come on the air live with us by checking the box. Mark will do everything else. While you're on the website, sign up for the free weekly newsletter. Get yourself a little Christmas present. Why not? Okay, today we are talking to Jeff, who is sweltering in Florida as we freeze in the northeast. Hello, Jeff, how are you? What's the temperature right now? I know it's not actually Christmas Eve, but give us a little sense of how we should be jealous of you.

[Jeff]

Hi, Jill. Hi, Mark. How are you guys doing today?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Look at him. He's trying to be all enthusiastic. Very cute. Okay, what's the weather today, Jeff?

[Jeff]

Well, right now it's about 62 degrees. It's been in the 70s for most of the week, though.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, 62 is nice, by the way. We're talking to you. And in New York today It will be 59 degrees. It's very odd. So, Jeff, do you have a big Christmas tradition or not?

[Jeff]

Well, I move around a lot, so I guess the sad answer is I do not. I do. Typically I'll try to hit Christmas Eve mass, but this year we're having my mother in law in town. And then after. Oh, no, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. Good family. And the week after we're having my friends from out of town come in for the first time. So really excited.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So you're being. You're doing big entertainment. Me too. So I think that's good. It keeps you busy. All right. So, Jeff, what brings you to us? What's going on?

[Jeff]

Well, Jill, I. I have a little bit of a life change going on. I just moved down here, Florida. And next year my partner and I are looking to potentially get back into the real estate market. I haven't been in the market since 2020 and I didn't have a lot of success. So trying to think of whether or not we want to try to work on paying off some debt, saving for retirement, or maybe going and grabbing a home.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, let's get the. The rundown. Jeff, how old are you?

[Jeff]

I am 42 and my partner is 37.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Kids or no kids?

[Jeff]

No kids.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. You guys now live in Florida and rent?

[Jeff]

That's correct. We. We got down here about half a year ago, and we wanted to rent and kind of check out the market before we move too quick.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Will there be any children on the horizon or is this a definite. Like, we're. We're all, all set.

[Jeff]

We are. I think I heard you say this last week. We are dinks. Jill.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes. Double income, no kids. Thank you very much. Okay. How much do you guys earn in terms of your salaries?

[Jeff]

Well, our income should be about 250,000 next year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow.

[Jeff]

Yep. Yep. We're doing pretty good. The. My partner is brand new to her field and she got a much higher paying job than she's used to, so we're kind of working through that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, congratulations to her. That's great. Okay, so if you were going to think about real estate, do you have any idea what it would cost you to buy something that you'd want to live in?

[Jeff]

Yeah. So I guess where we're a little different than maybe your average listener is we'll probably be using a VA loan. Okay. Which the nice side of that is we don't really have to put much down.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What is that, 3% down or 5% down?

[Jeff]

We can go as low as zero, believe it or not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, let's try 3%.

[Jeff]

Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna try to put something down. But the, the other side of that is one of the reasons we're using that loan is because we haven't really had a lot of time to store up much for a down payment.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Do you guys both contribute to retirement accounts?

[Jeff]

I have been contributing to my account and we are getting her started just now.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. How much money do you have saved in retirement?

[Jeff]

Between my workplace, I have a thrift savings plan. So between that and my IRA, I have about 275,000.

[Advertiser]

Great.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And are those both traditional accounts or are they roth accounts?

[Jeff]

About 70,000 of that is traditional with 200,000 in Roth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, good. That's the right direction. Excellent. What about money outside of retirement?

[Jeff]

So there is about another 300,000 in taxable brokerage and then there is about 40k in cash laying around.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, what will her retirement plan be? Is it a 401k? Is that what she's entitled to?

[Jeff]

So right now all we have is an IRA for her and she will be entitled to a 401k. But she's not. She hasn't been at the Employer long enough yet.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is in her 401k? I mean, her IRA.

[Jeff]

Sorry, $15,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Will either of you be entitled to a pension?

[Jeff]

I will.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You will? Do you know about how much? Like, just give me a little of the basics.

[Jeff]

So let's just. I don't. I don't really know how to value these, but for simplicity sake, I will get about 40 to 50% of my final income. So, like, in today's dollars?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yep.

[Jeff]

Just because my. My employer is a little weird. In today's dollars, that's about 55K.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. All right. That's a good number, though. And will that 55k, will you also be entitled to Social Security or not?

[Jeff]

I will.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Do you have an idea, Jeff? How much you guys spend right now, including the rent?

[Jeff]

To include rent, we're at about half of our income. We're at about 125,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, you live in large, dude. And if we looked at putting down 3%. Okay, what kind of house would we have to be financing? I'm just trying to see, like, can you afford it on a cash flow basis to buy, in other words? Right. Like, if you're going to spend. If you're making 250, you're saving some money. You're putting money into your retirement. She will put money in retirement. We don't want to. We don't want to snuff that out. But what would we have to pay for a house that you'd want to live on?

[Jeff]

Florida, obviously. Higher property taxes and higher insurance costs.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeff]

So all in, we're looking at about an additional 1500amonth we would have to spend in order to have a mortgage rather than be renting.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's not so bad. You guys can do that, right?

[Jeff]

Yeah, I think so. I'm a little concerned because I feel like right now we're kind of floating on even. So I'm still trying to run a budget and figure out why we're floating uneven. Because we.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Because you're spending 125 grand a year, right? Sorry to be obvious. Sorry to be so obvious. But also, you said she's new to her field and you'll be making more money than you have been making, right?

[Jeff]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So that's a big thing. Are you sure you want to buy, considering you just moved down there? Like, what if you're like, ugh, I hate this. Like, you might want to go to a different community or whatever, you know, Is it possible that you might move around? You said you've moved around a Lot.

[Jeff]

Yeah. And that's one of my concerns is on the horizon. So my industry is up or out and I've probably got three years with a pathway to move up in the area or else we will have to move.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Interesting.

[Mark]

Well, I'm renting for three years.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I am too. I am too. I feel like maybe we should put this on ice for a bit. Okay, so here's what I'm thinking, Jeff. So right now you've got a lot of change in your life. Okay. And are you maxing out your retirement contribution into the Thrift Savings?

[Jeff]

I am. And I'm also using a backdoor Roth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So that's great. So let's just presume that you keep doing that and she'll start using her 401k when she's eligible. Right. Is there anything else that you have? Like, is there, is there any other debt or anything that's floating? I thought you said debt when we first started talking. Is there debt?

[Jeff]

There is. There's about $88,000 in student loan debt.

[Jill Schlesinger]

No. No. I say no. Damn it. Okay, what's the interest rate on that debt?

[Jeff]

About 6.5%.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. I think I know what I want. I think I'm sort of thinking this through on the spot. Right. And I want you to sure. You haven't been making 250 grand for a long time. It's just very brand new. I really think putting a purchase on the back burner makes a lot of sense. I think that in the next three years there, I have essentially a few different goals for you. I guess what I wanted to know was you said you have a taxable brokerage account of $300,000, right?

[Jeff]

Correct.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is that yours? In other words, it's not a joint account.

[Jeff]

Correct. That's. That's mine. And the reason.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Are you going to make this person a honest woman and get married or not? Shh. She doesn't listen.

[Jeff]

That, that, that may be on the plan.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. In that brokerage account, would you consider selling 100 grand out and paying off the student loans?

[Jeff]

Oh, that'd be hard. So. Jill.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Not that much.

[Jeff]

So here's. Here's the deal. I will probably. I'm not a fire guy, but I will probably be force retired from my, my job at about 50 years. Right. About eight years. I will have my pension. Will. Will kick in right away. I won't have to wait for it. But I don't have a ton of outside marketable skills, so I'm expecting a pretty large pay cut when I move on.

[Jill Schlesinger]

From that.

[Jeff]

So that's what the brokerage is kind of for.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, so it's like a supplemental, like get. That'll make. That's like your bridge. Right, right. And please God, tell me that this mother in law who's coming to visit has a lot of money, does she?

[Jeff]

Oh, that would be great, wouldn't it?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, he's really what? You really have chosen incorrectly on this one, Jeff, let me tell you. All right. Will your partner have to take care of her mother or not?

[Jeff]

Probably. I don't think there will be any financial obligation if that's where you're going.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, that's exactly where I'm going. So I have a. Like I'm sort of. She's. She's Young, right. She's 37. She has big cash flow right now. I think that what we need to do is kind of get you guys more firmly established in your financial future. So here's what I'm thinking. I need you guys to track your spending for 90 days. Don't do it now. It's Christmas, you know. You know, starting just 90 days of tracking. Where is this money going? I want to know how this 125,000, because that's a. I mean, it's not a huge amount of money, but I mean, considering she hasn't been making 200, has not been making as much money recently that I'm interested. So we need to track that. So I think there's sort of three priorities that I really would consider. So one is, you know, you have, you know, whatever, 40 grand in cash. We need you guys to have an emergency reserve fund between the two of you that can cover six to 12 months of your living expenses. See, we can't really do that whole. That. We can't even figure out what that is until we actually understand what you're spending. Right. So then number two is we need her to really try to get a jump on that student loan debt. Six and a half percent is a real number. So let's say that you run through all of your numbers, you look at what you're spending and you say, okay, we have $2,000 a month to something. Right. Between her retirement or funding obligations, I would have her start with, you know, say an 8 or a 10% contribution to her 401k. And the rest, all the rest of hers has to go to paying down her student loan debt. It just. She needs to get rid of this. Okay.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And then the third thing is to continue for you to continue to save money in retirement. And for you, I mean, I don't know if you're going to really run your lives separately or not, but that there's also that tending to the brokerage account so that you can create a bridge for yourself, you know, so it may be that you're forced retired 50, and then you have, you know, you give yourself a good year that you have available to you to figure out what happens next. And so I think it's emergency reserve debt, pay down retirement and supplemental retirement for you. And then I think that it may be, let's say in three years, you figure out there's something different on the horizon. I think that then you reconsider the housing market. And the only reason I would actually change that is if you were presented with a great opportunity that you could get into the housing market in a way that's affordable. Meaning that if you were looking at this in, let's say, a couple, three years, and you're like, okay, we're staying in this town, in Florida, we love it. She's kicking ass. Her career is amazing. You know, when I look at the numbers now we've whittled down the debt, like all that stuff is like clicking along and you could potentially add $1500 a month to your cash flow and still do everything else. Yeah, great. But until then, I don't think it makes sense to take the plunge. I think you're putting a lot of pressure on yourselves. I think that you're in very good shape. You've done a really good job of saving. She's kind of really starting the beginning process of getting her financial life going. And together. I think you're going to do a great job of saving for the future. I would be concerned that a house is a little bit of a bridge too far. Mark, do you agree? Am I crushing. Listen to me. I'm crushing Jeff's Christmas Eve desire to own a house. But what do you think, Mark?

[Mark]

Three years, you know, it's not a long time. It's going to fly by and you'll have a, you know, you'll be in a much better position. The student loans will be reduced, you'll have more money saved, maybe you can put down more than 3%. You'll just be coming at it from a stronger position.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And I invite you to come back on the air with us and do it and have this conversation and we'll know a lot more about your partner's life also and her work life. For all we know that like in three years, she's like, hey, you Might say she's like, really doing well, and you're like, hey, our combined income's 300 grand. Now, does that seem okay to you? So, emergency reserve debt, pay down retirement, and for you, that supplemental bridge account, that brokerage account, Those are the four things I would prioritize the first three very specifically because you already have the 300 grand in the brokerage account, but having an emergency reserve that can cover six to 12 months of your living expenses, she really starts to focus on paying down the debt more aggressively. She begins to contribute to her retirement account. You continue to put money into the brokerage as you can, and you table the conversation about a house unless something falls in your lap and it's such a great deal, you have to call us back.

[Jeff]

Okay, Can I real quick.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Not even quick, go for it.

[Jeff]

So the brokerage I've obviously been trickling into for a while now, would you take the extra money that's been going into that, at least for the immediate future, and start applying it towards those loans for a bit? Sounds like that's what you're saying.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, I think a little bit. I don't know. I, I, I feel like that debt level is a, it's not like an insignificant number. I think it will be, I'd love it to be under 50 grand before you started to really ratchet up your brokerage. You've got eight years, right, till 50, so maybe in the next year or two if we could start to push that student loan debt down. You have, you're, you have, you have. If the, the blank hit the fan, you do have money. You have that brokerage account. The brokerage account will keep doing what it's doing. But I think that there are certain aspects of this game plan that you could sort of keep juggling the way you're doing it right now. But we have not laid a firm enough foundation for you. That's what I think. So I would like that debt paid down even at the expense of the brokerage. I don't want you to lift the gas, I don't want you to lift your foot off the gas of the retirement contribution. I think that's good. But, you know, listen, you're going to have a, you're going to have income, she's going to keep making money. So it's all going to be very good. But I want there to be again, a firmer foundation for you.

[Jeff]

Love it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. You good?

[Jeff]

You feel good?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, wait a second. Your partners, you may get married, but do you have like your estate docs? Done.

[Jeff]

Oh, I knew you were going to ask this question.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, man, don't you hate it? I'm so, like, annoying. Yeah.

[Jeff]

So we're doing all the transfer on death and beneficiaries. What I really need to do and. And life insurance is covered.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Jeff]

What I really need to do is go back in and get my will updated.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. If either of you has it as a benefit, it's a wonderful benefit to use, like legal services. It's great. So I would encourage you to check that out. And look, if you get married, it becomes easier. If you don't get married, it's fine. But if you don't get married, making sure that you're appointing her as the person who makes a decision on your behalf is incredibly important because I don't trust the state of residence, whether it's Florida, New York or whatever, to make the decision that is consistent with exactly you want to do.

[Jeff]

That makes sense, right?

[Jill Schlesinger]

I mean, we love our states, but let CC line at the dmv. I understand the DMV is not as bad as it used to be because we all do everything online anyway. All right, what else, Jeff, Anything else you got going on that we need to know about before we let you go off for Christmas Eve where you do nothing?

[Jeff]

Oh, well, I work on Christmas day.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my God, you're so good. Do you get paid more for that?

[Jeff]

Yeah, right. I'm salary, baby. I just work nonstop.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Jeff, Jeff from Florida. Mark, Remember all those people who raised their hands to work on Christmas? What was it? Market at triple time, baby.

[Mark]

Triple time.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Triple time. I don't think that's anymore. I think it's only time and a half now. I think they're much better.

[Mark]

I don't know. I don't know. You know, that was all union mandated. There was certain, you know, those, those really, I think Christmas Day, fourth of July, a couple of those holidays were triple time.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my gosh. I would work for triple time, believe me. All right, well, poor Jeff, he's just a salaried schlub like the rest of us, so good luck to you. Let us know if you need to follow up about any of this. Truly. And if, hey, if you want to bring the partner on, bring that girlfriend on. Let's go. I get her on the air and talk to her about that debt. I would love to know where she went to school. That's always the fun part for me. We just spoke to somebody who's like, oh, yeah, my kid had a bunch of debt because he couldn't get into the school in state. And so he went to a state school, but as an out of state student had like 90 something thousand dollars of debt. This is not a great decision. Yeah, they're bailing them out. Which this is why I asked if she had someone to bail her out. All right, gang, I just want to say once again, it is my very happy moment to wish you all a merry and happy everything. If you don't celebrate Christmas, if you are among like the way I grew up, a nice Jewish girl in New York. Enjoy the movies. I hope you see something great. You'll get into Wicked without any lines. Fantastic. And have delicious Asian food when you return. Everyone else have a merry and a happy. We're going to be in your ear tomorrow. Mark, what did we do for tomorrow? Something or nothing. What do we do?

[Mark]

We did it like very, very quick. Just a little. Just a little holiday greeting.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We're going to do a holiday greeting tomorrow. Everyone watch Charlie Brown Christmas. It's my favorite. And if you've got a question, you can always go to Jill on money dot com, click the Contact Us button. Write us a note, let us know if you want to come on the air live. Subscribe to this program on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Try to do something nice for someone else today. Someone needs a little bit of a pat on the back. Please. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening and yes, we will talk to you on Christmas. Hey, friends. I'm Sharon McMahon, host of here's Where It Gets Interesting. Each week I speak with authors, experts and thought leaders on everything from American history and democracy to how to be a better person on the Internet. And don't miss my extremely popular docu series which educate you on things you never learned in history class. Follow and listen to. Here's where it gets interesting on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.