Feeling Lost, What's the Next Step?

Summary

Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Episode: Feeling Lost, What's the Next Step?
Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Jill Schlesinger, CFP®
Producer: Mark Dalerisio
Main Caller: Anne from Connecticut

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jill dives into a listener’s detailed, real-world case study about handling significant accumulated wealth, especially as retirement nears and the transition from saving to strategizing tax-efficient withdrawals becomes daunting. The main focus: how to navigate complex portfolios, prepare for required minimum distributions (RMDs), and decide whether to consolidate accounts and/or seek more tailored financial advice. Jill provides actionable insights while breaking down complicated concepts into relatable, practical takeaways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up Post-Labor Day

[01:07 – 05:04]

• Jill welcomes listeners back after a break, expressing genuine excitement to reconnect.
• Brief banter with producer Mark Dalerisio about his challenging trip to China.
• Jill reflects on how much she enjoys interacting with her audience compared to her TV work:
  "This is by far the most fun that I have all week long, which is why I feel like I'm excited to talk to you all." (04:14)

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2. Upcoming Live Event: Estate Planning Focus

[04:44 – 05:13]

• Jill promotes the September 10th Jill on Money Live webinar centered on estate planning, bringing in an attorney and a financial therapist for holistic guidance.

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3. Main Caller: Anne's Wealth Journey

[05:17 – 27:45]

a) Background on Anne’s Financial Life

• Anne and her husband started with little, made steady progress, and steadily invested their growing surplus over decades, primarily through simple index funds and brokerage accounts.
• Received advice from a friend to diversify and set up proper college funds (UTMAs).
• Inherited assets from her parents, placed into a trust intended for her eventual heirs.

b) Asset Overview

[07:32 – 12:05]

• Joint self-managed account: ~$1MM
• Trust (inherited, now in Anne's name): $466K
• Muni bond managed account: $391K
• Joint managed account at Morgan Stanley: $915K
• Three former UTMA accounts (for their children): $160K each (~$480K)
• Retirement accounts:
  • Tom's IRA: $910K
  • Anne’s IRA: $976K
  • Anne’s 401(k): $1.7MM
• Primary residence: $1.6MM, no mortgage

c) Family and Income Details

[12:05 – 15:00]

• Anne (66, working, $600K annual income, physician), Tom (68, retired).
• Three adult daughters, independent or nearly there—one with significant self-made savings.
• Tom and Anne both plan to delay Social Security to age 70 for full benefits.
• Anne also has a robust pension: $6,240/month starting at 70.

d) Spending Needs & Retirement Income Planning

[14:45 – 16:38]

• Realistic monthly spending currently around $20K–$25K; can spike higher due to taxes.
• Projected retirement income from Social Security and pension: ~$13,800/month.
• Will need to supplement from savings/investments for desired lifestyle.

e) Retirement Account Tally

[16:04 – 16:47]

• Jointly, they hold over $3.5MM in pre-tax retirement accounts, not yet subject to RMDs.

f) Anne’s Main Concern: “Am I Doing This Right?”

[17:15 – 18:56]

• Worries about a looming “huge tax liability.”
• Seeking guidance on whether to consolidate, adjust investment approach, or pursue more active management (advisor recommended “Parametric”/custom core for tax efficiency).
• Expresses self-doubt:
  "I kind of feel like a rube. I feel like a foreigner in this land of finance… Part of me wants to just trust the guy at Morgan Stanley and say, just do it. Fix it. Take care of everything." (18:52, Anne)

g) Skepticism Around Financial Advice

[18:56 – 19:18]

• Anne is hesitant about blindly trusting advisors, citing local doctors who lost pensions to Bernie Madoff:
  "There's a medical group in my town who had a great pension plan invested with a guy that had great returns, and his name was Bernie Madoff." (18:58, Anne)

h) Jill’s Core Recommendations

[20:23 – 26:15]

• Acknowledges Anne has “won the game” financially and will not outspend her assets.
• Primary focus should now be on efficient withdrawal and minimizing taxes—especially on the sizable pre-tax retirement nest egg.
• Encourages interviewing multiple financial planners for a second opinion, not limiting to Morgan Stanley, even if familiar with their tools like Parametric:
  "You guys are a perfect couple to consider shopping around for a real financial planner... This is your moment in time." (23:25, Jill)
• Looks at fees: with $4MM at Morgan Stanley, 1% management fee seems high; with assets at this level, lower rates might be negotiable.
• Stresses importance of “implementation” and not just plan creation—help with RMD strategies, tax-efficient withdrawals, and legacy planning is vital, not just accumulating assets.
• Notes that now is the time to switch mindset from accumulation to distribution and efficiency.

i) Advice: Get Second Opinions & Validation

[26:15 – 27:45]

• Urges Anne to use her “second opinion” instincts from medicine for finance as well.
• Reinforces:
  “You’re in very good shape and in great shape. So congratulations about that mostly. And then also I want to be clear that whoever you decide to move forward with, it’s like you’re in medicine, right? You get second opinions.” (26:48, Jill)
• Notes it's not just about not outliving your money, but passing it to kids efficiently and planning for taxes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the reality of wealth accumulation as a late-career high earner:
  "This is what happens when you are born at the right time in the right generation and you keep investing early." (20:05, Jill)
• Anne’s humility on managing money:
  "I kind of feel like a rube. I feel like a foreigner in this land of finance." (18:52, Anne)
• Jill on the need for professional guidance:
  “This is your moment in time… to put together a strategy with a [financial] advisor who will develop that strategy with you, who will implement that strategy with you, who will help you make sure that the money gets passed on to your kids in the way that you want.” (23:25, Jill)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:07: Jill’s return, post-vacation enthusiasm
• 05:17: Anne introduces her background from Connecticut
• 06:58: Anne describes the formation of various investment accounts over time
• 07:32 – 12:05: Detailed rundown of Anne’s various accounts and asset values
• 12:22: Anne discloses her income as a physician: ~$600K/year
• 14:45: Reveals real (and rising) monthly spending: $20K–$25K/month
• 16:10 – 16:38: Overview of the couple's retirement savings
• 18:52: Anne worries about being a “foreigner in this land of finance”
• 20:23: Jill begins her strategic overview on managing taxes and withdrawals
• 23:25: Jill insists on the value of seeking multiple planner perspectives
• 26:48: The importance of second opinions and not “shopping by price” alone

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Summary Flow and Takeaways

Jill on Money’s case study with Anne is a masterclass in practical, late-career financial planning—especially for those who “did everything right” but now must shift focus from growing to efficiently using and distributing wealth. The episode balances technical advice with empathy, normalizing the feeling of being “lost” when moving into a new financial phase. Jill’s repeated emphasis is on planning for what’s next—not just what worked before.

Listeners in similar situations—complex assets, impending RMDs, concern about advisor recommendations—will come away with clear steps:

• Inventory assets and income needs
• Seek truly independent, comprehensive financial planning (not just product management)
• Get second opinions, just like in medicine
• Always weigh fees against the value provided at higher wealth levels

Jill’s tone is straightforward, slightly irreverent, and always rooted in real-world practicality, encouraging listeners to “lift someone up,” take charge, and embrace both the privilege and responsibility of wise wealth stewardship.

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Transcript

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[Caller (Anne)]

That's cool.

[Carvana Customer]

But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right? That's what they said.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You can spend time trying to pronounce.

[Carvana Customer]

Financing or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on Carvana financing subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Welcome to the Jill on Money show. It's Friday, September 5th and we are so delighted to talk to you gang. We are recording this on the Tuesday after Labor Day. It is my first day back and it is Mark Talercio, best executive producer in the entire world. And he has been globetrotting. It is his first day back. So I am very enthusiastic. You hear it in my voice. Well rested, Mark, would you like to come on the air and tell the folks why you're so tired today?

[Mark Dalerisio]

Well, we got home at 2 o'. Clock. I can't even keep track of. I'm very confused now. Two in the morning yesterday. It was a long, it was a long journey coming back from China, that's for sure. Longer going.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Let me just say that, yeah, it's a rough go.

[Mark Dalerisio]

It was not, you know, our flight there was a, was a night flight, a 1:00am flight. Well, 1:00am turned into 6:00am What? Because we got to the airport and the, you know what turned into a short delay kept getting extended and extended and extended. So we were at the airport for the entire overnight which threw just our entire plan, you know, into chaos because we thought we'd get on a plane, Theo would go to sleep. But no, we were all at the airport all night. Theo was up all night, had the grandparents with us, got on the plane. Theo was wired and because we were six hours late, we, we missed our connection in Tokyo.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh my God.

[Mark Dalerisio]

So we got stuck in Tokyo longer than anticipated. It was a long journey.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Getting there, easier coming back. But also some mishaps on the ground.

[Mark Dalerisio]

Meaning that not due to the airline, but the ever everlasting construction at JFK airport where a plane landed. We sat on the tarmac for a full hour. Remind you this is, you know, this is like 11 o' clock at night. There's no ride share pickup because of the construction, which, you know, who would have thought to check into that?

[Jill Schlesinger]

I wish I told you that I knew that because that happened to me the last time I came back from la.

[Mark Dalerisio]

Had take the air train to a different section in Queens to get an Uber. So yeah, it was, it was a long trip, but it was good. We had a good time. It's good trip.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And your in laws were all fine.

[Mark Dalerisio]

They're. Yeah, they're still there. They're still there for another month.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, welcome home. I went, I had a much easier trip. But I will tell everybody that having two weeks off from talking to you, I missed you all. Everybody who listens to this program and our sister broadcast, Money Watch, your ears should be ringing because as I spoke about my career and what was going on, I would tell anybody who would listen, which is pretty much everyone, because they'll be asking me about what's going on at CBS News and what's going to happen. I say I don't know what's going to happen there, but I will keep doing this podcast for as long as the people will actually keep listening. And this is by far the most fun that I have all week long, which is why I feel like I'm excited to talk to you all. So let's get back on track together. Four months left in the year. It's time to kind of take control and make sure that we are helping you navigate whatever financial journey you would like to be on. If you'd like to get in touch with us, go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact Us button and let us know if you'd like to join us on the air live. Hey, while you're on the website, check it out. You have got to subscribe to Jill on Money Live. That is where you have access to quarterly live webinars, the back catalog of those webinars, bonus video and audio content, all for 45 bucks for the next 12 months. And, boy, we have a doozy of a. Let's get your life on track, gang. Estate planning is in focus. It's next week, September 10th. We have an estate planning attorney, Juliet Caleb, who's my estate Planning attorney. I've totally hustled her. And I'm like, juliet, you got to do this. And Rick Kaler, who is amazing, he is a certified financial planner, but he literally has a designation, Certified financial therapist. He's a shrink also. So he's a financial planner, and he is also a shrink. And he is going to help us walk through the journey of estate planning and help you, your family, your. Maybe your adult children, maybe your aging parents, maybe you yourselves. You got to join us. This is going to be big. Hey. There were some changes to the estate law. A lot of things that are going on, and we want to help you out. So you've got to be part of Jill on Money Live to join us for that purchase program. Okay, now let us get to the very patient Anne, who joins us today. Oh, Ann, I forgot to ask you, where are we talking to you from?

[Caller (Anne)]

I'm living in Connecticut.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. The nutmeg state. I'm going to be spending a lot of time in Connecticut because my big bike ride for charity. There are many miles through the state of Connecticut, Many hills. Everyone's like, oh, that's flatted. Because they think of Route 95 along the shoreline. It's very hilly, so uphills. Yeah. I mean, may. May I only be able to go downhill without killing myself. Okay, and what brings you to us today?

[Caller (Anne)]

So, basically, to make a long story short, and it is long, and I'll make it very short, when my husband and I first got married, we. We had like, two pennies in our pocket. And after we got married in our 30s, and after we bought a house and had three kids and still had, a banking friend of the family said that we should go and invest our money in a diversified way.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Caller (Anne)]

Until that point, we had been putting, like, we had like, maybe a hundred thousand dollars that we had put into Vanguard, just a simple S P500 index fund. And with the statements would come every month, my husband would put them in the drawer, and I would say, yeah, yeah, just put them in the drawer. And a couple years went by. So in 2003, this friend says, you know, you guys have to do something more sophisticated that you have to save money for your kids college. We're like, yeah, yeah, we'll get around to it. So he advised us to, and he said he would help us. And we opened an account in a brokerage firm. We basically had one account there, and we added our extra cash there periodically. And then we opened up three separate UTMA accounts for our kids for their college funds.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Caller (Anne)]

That money grew and grew. And then after my parents passed away, I took what I inherited from my mom after she was a second parent to pass, and I kept that money in a separate fund. And it's. That's now in a trust that is owned by me that I plan to just pass on to my kids.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Caller (Anne)]

So now 25 years have gone by and now there's a lot of assets there.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And how many. Well, come on. No one knows who you are. Let's go. You know, don't come into the doctor's office if you don't want to take off your clothes.

[Caller (Anne)]

I'm gonna take off my clothes. All right. So the account that is just mine and my husband's that, that we is quote unquote, self managed. And this was what the friend of the family had set us up for. That has 1,056,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I'm gonna call it a million. So a million dollars in a joint account that you guys have. How old are your kids?

[Caller (Anne)]

30, 21 once. Her birthday is today. 30, 29 and 25.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So. And they're all on their own and doing fine. Oh my God. Was there. Who laughed in the background? Tom? I heard, maybe I heard somebody chuckle.

[Caller (Anne)]

It wasn't a chuckling.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Caller (Anne)]

The youngest one just started her first real job after getting a master's. The second one was working in government and had a good job with good benefits, but she hated it, hated it, hated it. And she took the.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The package.

[Caller (Anne)]

Package. And now she's in. She's actually leaving to interview. You know, she's going to Europe to interview for a job with the, with a banking company.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, let me just ask you a thing. Are these three kids still living with you? All three?

[Caller (Anne)]

No. No. And the oldest one just got her masters and she's down in North Carolina. She just got her. She's the one that is 30 and she just got her master's and it's in public health and the job market in public health and for anything that relies on public health grants has bad tight. So she's still looking for a job.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You paid for college. They've got. Two of them have masters and everyone's looking for work. And one just started. The 25 year old May be our savior.

[Caller (Anne)]

Right?

[Jill Schlesinger]

God bless you.

[Caller (Anne)]

One in the middle. When she was working, she was very good at saving. She has saved. She has a Roth ira. She saved up. I don't know how much she has in her personal money, but I know she has a hundred thousand that she had saved. She was living at home. So she's 28 and she's, she has, she's got $200,000 in assets and about 56,000 in a Roth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So that's pretty damn good. So you guys have this joint account with a million dollars. What's the trust worth right now?

[Caller (Anne)]

The trust that was left over for my mom that originally started off with 350 and now it has 466 and that, that is five years old.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, got it. And beyond that, any other assets that you guys have saved?

[Caller (Anne)]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, tell me about more.

[Caller (Anne)]

And then I was lucky enough that my income rose a lot. So we got into a high tax bracket and we started talking to our, our wealth management person. I said like, you know, we need to have stuff that is like triple tax free. So we opened up a managed account that has municipal bonds, you know, within Morgan Stanley.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yep.

[Caller (Anne)]

And that has 391,000 in it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, you guys have 391 immunity bonds. 466 in the trust. Joint account. A million. What about retirement assets?

[Caller (Anne)]

There's, there's. Then we have another joint account.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh.

[Caller (Anne)]

That we let Morgan Stanley manage. Okay, so that, that managed account has $915,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, okay, so 9:15 at Ms. Self manage the million. What are you doing? Are you putting that, is it an E trade account or it's just at Morgan Stanley?

[Caller (Anne)]

Well, it's at Morgan Stanley and they do whatever they do with it. And it's growing.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, whatever. You don't want to do this all yourself. And the muni bonds are good. So you got. Okay, so keep going. So two joint accounts, one trust, one muni bond account.

[Caller (Anne)]

Correct. And then we have three accounts that were the leftover money from college. When our friend helped us set up the money, he chose basically some mutual funds and that's where they, and they did.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Great.

[Caller (Anne)]

And then when the girls graduated, we said to them, listen, this ATMA money, it's not really your money, it's our money. And it would be the last money we would ever touch. So basically it went from being an UTMA account and they signed off. Now it's co owned between each child and, and my, and Tom.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, what's the whole total of the three accounts?

[Caller (Anne)]

It's 160 times three.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, okay, so that's great. Okay, so almost a half a million dollars.

[Caller (Anne)]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. So we got a lot of money here. So we've got all, Do I have all the assets that Morgan Stanley is accounting for? Right, I got all that. We have them all. We Have a million self managed 915 in a different joint account. The trust is 466. The muni bonds are 391. Each of the three kids has, well, let's just call it the 160,000 per child from former UTMA accounts.

[Caller (Anne)]

Correct.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, I got that down now. Are you guys working still?

[Caller (Anne)]

I am. Tom retired. He. Good for you, Tom for himself. But I'm 66, I'm still working and I, I really, I love what I do.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, that's amazing. How much do you earn?

[Caller (Anne)]

Well, the last couple of years was atypical.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, give me a typical year. Don't worry about the last couple years.

[Caller (Anne)]

All right, the typical year around 600,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Holy smokes. Are you a doctor?

[Caller (Anne)]

I am, I am. But I started working, you know, I didn't start making money until I was like 35, 36.

[Jill Schlesinger]

See how I got. But Mark, are you impressed that I guess that that was a doctor? This is like me guess, the guessing the, the actual job. Because just of like the way you described yourself. Doctors take a long time to get going. But you have longevity. I just have a friend. Let me ask you this, you're a doctor. Would you go to a surgeon who is 86? No, I wouldn't either. My friend's getting her hip replaced by an 86 year old dude. I'm a little scared.

[Mark Dalerisio]

That was a quick no.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I know, I wouldn't. But maybe he's fabulous. But she's like, oh, I love him. I'm like, oh, okay, good luck.

[Caller (Anne)]

I mean maybe like if it was like a hammer toe, but not, not a new hip.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Maybe he's got young people who do the hard work. He just says cut there and he does a billing. Yeah, right. And so 600 is a typical year. And how old is Tom?

[Caller (Anne)]

Tom is two years older than I am. He's 68.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, and does he receive Social Security yet or not?

[Caller (Anne)]

No, he is. Tom is going to receive Social Security when he turns 70.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What will that be?

[Caller (Anne)]

His Social Security at 70 will be 2551.

[Jill Schlesinger]

2551. And you won't wait. You'll wait till 70. And so what will yours be?

[Caller (Anne)]

Mine's at 70 will be 5097.

[Jill Schlesinger]

500. How about that? Isn't that a big number? You know, when you think about that Social Security. Wow, that's a big. That is a five grand. You're have like 75, 70, $600 a month. How much do you guys need to live on?

[Caller (Anne)]

Do you know what? It varies there's an. Actually, I get. I have also a pension.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, let's talk about this now. You. You are self. Are you self employed? Are you employed by a practice?

[Caller (Anne)]

I'm not. I was. I was employed by a hospital, multi specialty group.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And then.

[Caller (Anne)]

But it used to be just an individual hospital and they used to have a pension plan. And then when we became a. A consortium of hospitals, they got rid of the pension plan. But I was grandfathered in. And I. So when I. At 70, I can take it earlier, but I plan on starting at 70. Then I'll be getting $6,240 a month. Wow.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And then Mark's laughing because there's a lot of money coming in. So what do you think besides the. So we've got one pension, two Social Security checks. How much do you guys need to live on? Do you know?

[Caller (Anne)]

Well, you know, the kids were younger. It seemed like it wasn't that much. And I thought it was only 8 to 10,000 a year, but to tell you the truth, it's closer to 20 a year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You know, it's so fun because you actually looked at it, right?

[Caller (Anne)]

I did. I went back because I knew you would ask.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And the 20 grand a month?

[Caller (Anne)]

About 20 grand a month. And some months, it's 36,045.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How did that happen?

[Caller (Anne)]

That's on the months that we have to pay the real estate taxes and the estimated tax.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. But let's say. So let's say even 25amonth, right? Let's just say that. Okay. Just for fun. I mean, you're so close there. So when you look at all the income between your two social. Because, you know, obviously today, while you're still working, things are great. So you look at all this income, you're going to have about. Let me do this quickly. 13,500, 13,800. 13,890.

[Caller (Anne)]

Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, look at me. I was pretty close. Okay, so 13,800amonth. So you got half of it. It's taxable. So is there any other income that you guys will have at that point? Anything else?

[Caller (Anne)]

Yeah, Tom's ira, he had a separate ira and then he had an IRA from a previous place that he worked, so we joined it together when he was 65. And now there's 910 in that account.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Caller (Anne)]

That's never been taxed.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yep. What else? Anything else? For what about you? Didn't you put any 403B or 401K?

[Caller (Anne)]

Yeah, I had money from when I. Before I went to my job. In Connecticut, I had money that I rolled over into an IRA and I kept adding like 6,000 a year to it. So I have 976 there that's never been taxed. And then when the hospital got rid of the pension plan, they have a Fidelity 401K and so I have a 401K that has 1.7 million in it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's Mark laughing right now. This is nuts. This is amazing. It's crazy. It's like, aren't you shocked? You're like, I was just going off and doing my work every day and then all this money accumulated, right?

[Caller (Anne)]

Yeah, it was in one place, it was with, you know, and then we. They went over to Fidelity, but the other stuff that was in MetLife was frozen and I, I just never looked at it. And when I turned 60, I thought I should probably roll these over and join them.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And I was like, wow, it's amazing. Right? Of course you're going to have to pay a bunch of tax on this stuff, right? Yeah. Because you have like three and a half million bucks. It hasn't been taxed yet. Right. Y. Okay, what is our concern?

[Caller (Anne)]

The concern? Well, I know that I'm going to pay for tax and I know that eventually I'm going to have two years when I stop working before I have to do RMDs before Tom starts taking a bunch of RMDs and maybe I'll do a little bit of Roth conversion then. But. But the main thing I was calling you about was our friend at the wealth management firm said, you know, your self managed account and the accounts that are Toms and the girls, they basically, it's a very inefficient way to grow money. And there's a huge tax liability because we think that we should morph some of the mutual funds that remain in those accounts to something called custom core or parametric.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I know parametric very well and they're excellent at what they do. Morgan Stanley bought Parametric. So this guy has nothing to do with parametric. Parametric does have an ability to tax manage accounts, which is very, very interesting. However, I am not 100% sure that's really where the problem lies. You have all this money. Your friend is saying maybe you need to get look at the management of it. I agree. Is your friend managing the money or not?

[Caller (Anne)]

Our friend of the family that helped us set up the account is no longer involved. He got kind of pissed off at us.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Why'd he get mad at you?

[Caller (Anne)]

Well, he got kind of annoyed that that we weren't taking the initiative to become more knowledgeable about managing our finances. And we were like, oh, you know, and he's like, listen, I retired. I went on disability. I can't charge you for anything. I would never charge you for anything, but you guys have to take ownership. And I was like, you know, he's right, you know, but part of it is, like, I kind of feel like. Feel like a rube. I feel like. I feel like a foreigner in this land of finance.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Caller (Anne)]

I never. That's okay in my life. And I. And I just. Part of me wants to just trust the guy at Morgan Stanley and say, just do it. Fix it. Take care of everything. But that said, there's a medical group in my town who had a great pension plan invested with a guy that had great returns, and his name was Bernie Madoff, so.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, geez.

[Caller (Anne)]

People that invest blindly.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, well, absolutely. I mean, you're not going to be at risk in that same way, because no one's going to be, you know, doing shenanigans like that. However. Okay, so I'm looking at this, and I'm seeing big issues. Number one, let's start with the easiest thing. You guys, you. You own your home, and you're happy. Do you have. You have two homes or one home?

[Caller (Anne)]

We have. We have one home.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. How much is that worth?

[Caller (Anne)]

It's worth about 1.6 million.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And there's no mortgage left, I presume?

[Caller (Anne)]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So here's my three issues that I see. Number one, you know, you're fine. You know, you're working, and life is great. Terrific. And you have plenty of money to support. 25 or $30,000 a month even. Okay. Just you. You have plenty of money. I think you know that. Right? Like, in your heart, you believe that. Right. So those are, like, big issues to actually have. Thank goodness I have that taken care of. So now we're talking about the nuts and bolts of what you have and how to manage the tax liability. Clearly, your biggest tax liability are the retirement accounts that have not been taxed yet, which is three and a half million bucks.

[Caller (Anne)]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So there has to be some strategy around how should we get this money out? Number one, this money's all going to come out. And when you think about it, if we just pretended it's four years from now. Okay. And I said, okay, well, you have three and a half million dollars, and, you know, you're going to have to take a minimum required distribution. It's going to be, you know, 150 grand a year. Basically. Okay. And that's your minimum. That doesn't account all of your other problems. Not problems, but tax issues in your other accounts. Oh, by the way, everyone listening, do not send hate mail about this. She's a doctor. She worked her butt off and it just sort of accumulated. This is what happens when you are born at the right time in the right generation and you keep investing early.

[Caller (Anne)]

Okay, so my parents came to this country. I came to this country as an immigrant. My mother was a nurse's aide.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How about that? Amazing.

[Caller (Anne)]

My dad worked, had an office job as a, as a computer programmer. But before he got that, he, he worked in a factory.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah.

[Caller (Anne)]

So worked so hard.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And look at this. And they paid off because you have been completely amazing in your diligence, in your education, all these things. This is all good. No. And so anyone judging? No judgment. Okay, now what I think is fascinating here is there is obviously some strategy necessary. The question that I have is, okay, let's just pretend that you want to have someone manage the joint account. So really there's about $2 million. I'm not including the trust right this second because that is its own tax bracket. But you have $2 million in this joint account. You have three and a half million dollars in your retirement accounts. There should be someone who tries to create a strategy for you to better manage this. So here's what I would suggest. I think you guys are a perfect couple to consider shopping around for a real financial planner. And that may include interviewing the people at Morgan Stanley. But I do think you should interview someone else because I do think it would really behoove you to not just. By the way, a lot of firms use Parametric that are not Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley owns Parametric now, but you can still use them in isolation. Okay. Through other advisors. But I think it would be important for you people who have not like gotten psyched about investing. It's not your advocation. You like being a doctor. And Tom liked doing whatever he wanted to do. He was self employed. This is not your avocation. So I think it is a great time for you to talk to somebody about this exact issue, which is we have a looming tax issue in these retirement accounts. We have tax liability in our joint accounts. And we want to understand how we can marry these accounts together and put a strategy together to create, you know, this additional money we need, which is, you know, probably another 20 grand a month or 15 to, let's say 15 grand a month more in income. How should we do it? And that's the strategy that you need to develop. You're, you're fine. You won't make a mistake. Nothing bad's going to happen to you guys. There's just, it's impossible, truly impossible for you to mess this up. I mean, unless you started spending 50 grand a month. But I don't think that there's an issue. But I think this is the moment. Forgetting about your lovely friend who got you involved, forgetting about the person even that you deal with at Morgan Stanley as like the person, I think this is your moment in time. You're two, three, four years away from your retirement to put together a strategy with a advisor who will develop that strategy with you, who will implement that strategy with you, who will help you make sure that the money gets passed on to your kids in the way that you want. That there's real, there are some real planning aspects to this. It doesn't, you know, sometimes when I say financial planning, people are like, well, I know I can make my retirement numbers. Yeah, but you want to do it as efficiently as possible. And you want to do it making sure that Uncle Sam gets his due, the state of Connecticut will get their due, and that your children are taken care of, that you're taking care of, but you're doing it in a smart way. I don't know if that is going to be, you know, staying at Morgan Stanley, but I think you should compare how people approach this because like at Morgan Stanley, for the managed accounts, how much are they charging you?

[Caller (Anne)]

1%. And I thought that if we, you know, once we got to a certain amount that it would become less than 1%. Like for example, the managed account, they're getting 1%, but the self managed, I don't think they get anything for that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

They probably should get zero. I mean they might pay, they might charge you commissions. Yeah, like if, like if you buy something, like a little something. And the trust account is also at Morgan Stanley, or is it?

[Caller (Anne)]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. I think what I would like to do is put you in front of a couple of different planners who will give you a different lens through which to view this. Now you've been through this one lens. You're accumulators. You know how to do this. Now we're talking about getting the money out as tax efficiently as possible. And believe me when I tell you I can, I. There are so many folks who would love to work with you and especially because you're not that involved. I'm not saying you're going to Pay less than 1 per, less than 1% going to someone else. And I wouldn't shop this by price, but I do think that, you know, the, the IRAs, the rollovers are those at Morgan Stanley also.

[Caller (Anne)]

Two IRAs are Morgan Stanley and then.

[Jill Schlesinger]

My work is Fidelity. Okay. I mean, listen, they're managing a lot of money. If you think about it. There's about three and a half million dollars, $4 million because the muni bonds are also at Morgan Stanley. So there's, there's $4 million at Morgan Stanley. 1% feels like a little bit high to me for $4 million. It does. So you're in very good shape and in great shape. So congratulations about that mostly. And then also I want to be clear that whoever you decide to move forward with, it's like you're in medicine, right? You get second opinions. You get a couple different people. You're going to hire the 86 year old surgeon or are you going to hire the 46 year old surgeon? All right, Mark, are we done with them? I will be done with them for now. If you have a question about how to be tax efficient with a bunch of money you've saved, you are not alone. This is a big problem. People who are great savers, it's a hard thing to turn the faucet on the other way and then figure out what is the most tax efficient way to get that money out. So if that's you, get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button. Of course. Write us a note. Let us know if you want to come on the air while you're on the website. Sign up for the free weekly newsletter. Check out everything that lives there. And don't forget, you can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Please leave us a rating and review wherever, wherever you listen. It is Friday. Let's do some business. Our music is composed by Joel Goodman. Mark Dalerisio is our executive producer and king of all things web. And we are distributed by the fine folks at Odyssey. Try to lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you on Monday.

[Darren Words]

Are you a law firm owner looking to build real wealth and break free from the daily grind? On the Lawyer Millionaire podcast, we share practical strategies to grow your practice, maximize profits, and create the financial freedom you deserve. Join host Darren Words as he interviews top experts and law firm leaders who've scaled their success. Don't just practice law, build a legacy. Listen now to the Lawyer Millionaire, available on Spotify.

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