Feels Like We're Playing Catch Up

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Feels Like We're Playing Catch Up" Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger Release Date: March 18, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Feels Like We're Playing Catch Up," hosted by Jill Schlesinger and Mark T. McGowan of Audacy, the hosts engage with Patrick from New Jersey, who seeks guidance on improving his family's financial situation. The discussion delves into Patrick's comprehensive financial strategy, exploring retirement planning, investment allocations, savings for education, and overall cash flow management. The episode offers valuable insights for listeners who feel they are behind in their financial planning and seeks to provide actionable advice to help them gain control over their finances.

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Caller Profile: Patrick from New Jersey

Timestamp: [01:38]

Patrick introduces himself as a 50-year-old professional transitioning from a government position to the private sector. Alongside his wife, aged 48, they have three children aged 14, 11, and nine. Both Patrick and his wife are planning for retirement, feeling the pressure of having started their savings journey later than desired.

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Financial Overview

Income and Employment Transition

Timestamp: [02:35–04:37]

Patrick shares that he currently earns a base salary of $270,000 annually, supplemented by a stable bonus averaging $50,000 and Restricted Stock Units (RSUs) valued between $30,000 and $50,000, vesting over three years. His wife, who is still employed with the Department of Education, earns $180,000 annually. They are both transitioning out of government roles, with Patrick moving to the private sector and his wife planning to do the same voluntarily.

Pension Details

Timestamp: [05:21–06:10]

Patrick details their pension benefits, estimating a combined monthly pension of $6,000 ($3,000 each) starting at age 57. Mark underscores the significance of this pension, equating it to a $2 million savings milestone.

Mark T. McGowan: "I'll tell you something. I don't care how late a start you got. That's huge." [05:36]

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Retirement Plans and Savings

401(k) and Employer Contributions

Timestamp: [06:28–07:36]

Patrick contributes 8% pre-tax to his 401(k), with his employer offering a 100% match on the first 4% and a 50% match on the next 4%, effectively adding 6% to his retirement savings. His current 401(k) balance stands at approximately $247,000, with an additional 10% allocated to a Roth 401(k). Additionally, his employer provides a defined contribution pension, contributing another 6% of his income.

Thrift Savings Plan (TSP)

Timestamp: [07:52–08:44]

Patrick's wife contributes 12% of her salary to the TSP, with the federal government matching up to 6%. Her TSP balance includes $118,000 in traditional pre-tax contributions and $15,000 in Roth contributions.

Health Savings Account (HSA) and Brokerage

Timestamp: [08:58–09:25]

They maintain a brokerage account with $20,000, contributing $250 monthly, and an HSA, contributing the maximum of $700 monthly to reach an annual limit of $8,500.

Patrick: "So we have enough to cover everything each month." [14:51]

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Education Savings: 529 Plans

Timestamp: [09:30–10:03]

Patrick discusses their commitment to funding their children's education through 529 plans, currently holding $245,000 across all three children. They contribute approximately $3,800 monthly, aiming to fully cover public university expenses, estimated between $30,000 and $40,000 per year.

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Investments and Cash Reserves

High-Yield Savings and Real Estate

Timestamp: [10:18–10:43]

Following the sale of a second home, Patrick and his wife have allocated $135,000 to a high-yield savings account, with $75,000 designated as an emergency fund. Their primary residence is valued at approximately $1.1 million, with an outstanding mortgage of $700,000 at a current interest rate between 5% and 6.6%.

Jill Schlesinger: "Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses before investing." [00:00–01:21]

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Mortgage and Real Estate Considerations

Timestamp: [10:46–11:16]

Patrick expresses concern over their mortgage's high-interest rate, reflecting on historical rates and the challenges of current market conditions. Mark humorously relates to the high rates, acknowledging the relative improvement from the 1980s.

Mark T. McGowan: "It's better than, you know, the 15% that we saw in the 80s, right?" [11:28]

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Cash Flow and Budgeting

Monthly Expenditures

Timestamp: [13:01–15:35]

Patrick reports their monthly expenditures, including a $16,000 spend which encompasses the mortgage and living expenses. They also allocate funds towards vacations and dining out. Despite high spending, their well-structured savings and investment contributions ensure financial stability.

Patrick: "We are putting money into the 529. So right now for all three kids, we have 245,000." [09:30]

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Retirement Projections and Social Security

Timestamp: [16:13–18:34]

Mark assesses Patrick's retirement readiness, calculating that with ongoing contributions and pensions, they could amass approximately $3 million by age 62. Additionally, Patrick anticipates Social Security benefits of $4,440 monthly for himself at age 70 and $3,700 monthly for his wife at age 67, further bolstering their retirement income.

Mark T. McGowan: "Three, because he's, he's been around me too long because I would be like." [17:55–18:02]

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Investment Strategy and RSUs

Timestamp: [12:03–20:38]

Patrick plans to take the stock upon RSU vesting instead of selling immediately, intending to reinvest dividends and potentially diversify in the future. Mark advises a disciplined approach to selling RSUs to maximize benefits and minimize risks associated with holding too much company stock.

Mark T. McGowan: "I want to sell it out. [...] adopting a more conservative approach, which would be taking those RSU's when they come up and available, sell it out." [20:38]

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Advice and Insights from the Hosts

Timestamp: [15:35–21:18]

Mark and Jill commend Patrick and his wife on their robust financial planning, emphasizing the importance of pensions, diversified investments, and disciplined saving. They encourage listeners to adopt similar strategies, regardless of their starting point, and highlight the significance of strategic financial planning in achieving long-term stability and retirement goals.

Mark T. McGowan: "We got 12 years. So 62. How about 62? Does that strike you as a decent age?" [16:13]

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Conclusion

Patrick's financial strategy exemplifies a well-rounded approach to retirement planning, combining pensions, employer-sponsored retirement plans, personal investments, and dedicated savings for education. The hosts reinforce the effectiveness of his methods, providing reassurance and additional strategies to optimize his and his family's financial future. This episode serves as an encouraging guide for listeners who feel behind in their financial journey, illustrating that with disciplined planning and strategic investments, achieving financial security is attainable.

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Notable Quotes

• Mark T. McGowan: "I don't care how late a start you got. That's huge." [05:36]
• Patrick: "We have enough to cover everything each month." [14:51]
• Mark T. McGowan: "I want to sell it out. [...] adopting a more conservative approach, which would be taking those RSU's when they come up and available, sell it out." [20:38]

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Final Thoughts

"Feels Like We're Playing Catch Up" offers a comprehensive look into a family's financial planning, addressing common concerns and providing actionable advice. Whether you're transitioning careers, managing high-interest debts, or striving to save for your children's education, this episode underscores the importance of proactive financial management and strategic investment.

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Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Mark T. McGowan]

You'Ve earned at the end of your first year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Seriously, all, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show see [e-mail] credit card.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It's Tuesday, March 18th and we are here trying to help you make better, less bad, maybe just more considered financial decisions. Now we have a very sneaky way to do it. It's not very sneaky, but it does require a little work on your part. We ask that you go to our website jillonmoney.com and on that website, upper right hand corner there is a contact us button. And when you push that button, a form pops up. That is the email that we receive. And if you are shy, you don't think you'll be on the show with us, then give us a lot of, just give us a lot of detail. If you are really planning to come on the show, you can go a little bit lighter on the detail. Then we'll drag it out of you again. Jillonmoney.com that's the website contact us button. Shoot us a note. Okay, we are talking to Patrick who joins us from New Jersey. How is life in the Garden State, Patrick?

[Patrick]

Always, always beautiful here in the Garden State, Jill. Great Great to join you and Mark.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Well, we are happy to have you. What brings you to us?

[Patrick]

So I kind of wanted to do a check in. My wife and I are putting money away. We feel like we're putting a fair amount of money away, but we also feel like we started a little bit late. We both started in government and didn't have a bunch of money that was disposable or that we could invest. So we feel like we're playing catch up a little bit. We don't have these huge sums that some people call in with and we kind of wanted to make sure that we are doing all that we can do.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, are you guys still both in government or are you in private sector now?

[Patrick]

We're both in private sector now. We did leave government with pensions, which I know you love, love, love. So we have that, you know, to sort of get us started. But now we are both, I should say. I'm sorry, I'm private. My wife is in government, but leaving. So.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay.

[Patrick]

We're both going to be private soon and we want to make sure that in that private space that we are investing our monies as we should.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Sounds good. Patrick, how old are you?

[Patrick]

I am 50.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay. And your wife?

[Patrick]

48.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Do you guys have kids?

[Patrick]

Three kids. Our oldest is 14. Then we have an 11 year old and a nine year old.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, got it. And right now what do you earn income wise?

[Patrick]

I earn about 270 base. I make about another 50 in a fairly stable bonus each year. And then there is restricted stock units that I get each year which do vary, but it's somewhere between 30 and 50,000 and those sort of vest over a three year period.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, three year vest, got it. Okay. Your wife is still in the government, but she's leaving. So does that mean she has a new job already or are we going to have a pause? What's going to happen for her, I.

[Patrick]

Think remains to be seen. As you may have heard, things are a little bit crazy in the government right now.

[Mark T. McGowan]

You know what? I did hear that. I've heard that on the news. News. Okay. But did she lose her job or is she still employed at this moment?

[Patrick]

She is still employed. She works for the Department of Education, which is sort of making news as we speak.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yes.

[Patrick]

So she doesn't anticipate being let go anytime soon, but I don't know what that means in this environment. So she's making plans to sort of transition on her own terms. So she's looking. She's looking right now.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, so how much does she earn right now?

[Patrick]

Right now she's making 180,000.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, and when you left the government, did you have enough? So you had enough vested time in the system? What would your pension payout look like?

[Patrick]

I've run it on a calculator they provide. I think we would each be entitled to a pension of about $3,000 a month. So 6,000 total for the two of us.

[Mark T. McGowan]

I'll tell you something. I don't care how late a start you got. That's huge.

[Mark]

That's $2 million.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Two million bucks. You didn't save two million.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes, you did.

[Mark T. McGowan]

You worked in the government. You did. I'm serious. I mean, just to. I have to emphasize that to people that oftentimes when you work in a job, whether you're a teacher, you know, working in a system, or you're working a municipality or the federal government, all that time that you're putting in that you sort of like, oh, I'm not putting enough away. But you are entitled to that pension, and that is real money to you. So that is great. And, Patrick, when would that kick in? At what age? That three grand a month each?

[Patrick]

57. So we can start collecting at age 57. And actually, we don't have a choice. It just kicks in and we start receiving checks. There's no benefit to waiting.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, got it. Right. Now with the new. With your new career, how much money are you putting away into your retirement account?

[Patrick]

So I am putting in 8% into my 401k pre tax. There's an employer match of 6% on that I recently started.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Sorry to interrupt you.

[Patrick]

Sure?

[Mark T. McGowan]

Is it one for one or is it 50 cents on the dollar? Up to 6%.

[Patrick]

I'm sorry, it's 100% on the first four, and it's 50% on the next four. So.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, got you. I got it. Perfect. So you're using the match to the best of your ability by doing 8% pre tax.

[Patrick]

Correct?

[Mark T. McGowan]

Got. Okay. How much money's in there right now, Patrick?

[Patrick]

I have about a 247,000 the last time I checked. I'm putting it. I'm also putting 5% in a Roth 401K that I have available to me. So of that 247, 10% is in Roth. I just started doing that, so it's not a whole lot of money yet. And then my employer offers a defined contribution pension. So on top of the match, they put in another 6% of my income into the 401k.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Wow.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Mark T. McGowan]

All right, so stick around. This place for a little while.

[Patrick]

It's a good place to work.

[Mark T. McGowan]

My gosh. Okay, now what about your old retirement plan? You worked for the federal government. Do you have a thrift savings plan?

[Patrick]

I worked for local. Okay, so. So where we're getting the pension from, that role, I did have a. I guess it was a 457 account, which I just left. I didn't do anything with when I left. That there's 167,000.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Now, what about your wife? What is she. What about her retirement in terms of contributions and the amount she has saved?

[Patrick]

So she's in the thrift, so. Right. So she's federal. So she's in the TSP. She's currently contributing 12% of her salary. And the federal government matches up to 6. So she does 12 and they match with 6. Her balance the last time she looked was 118,000 in traditional pre. And then she has 15,000 additional in Roth. She just started doing the Roth as well.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, fantastic. All right, this is great so far. This story is very impressive, I have to say. So what about any other retirement accounts that we should know about?

[Patrick]

Nothing else. Retirement? We have a brokerage and an hsa. I opened the HSA after I started listening to you guys. Okay, so the brokerage we have $20,000 in. Currently I'm putting in about 250amonth. So not a lot, but, you know, trying to put in a little bit each month.

[Mark T. McGowan]

That's good.

[Patrick]

So the HSA we're putting in the max, which I think is 700amonth, to get us to the 8,500 each year.

[Mark T. McGowan]

And any money saved for the kiddos, for education, anything like that?

[Patrick]

Yeah, which is one of the questions we had. We're putting money into the 529. So right now for all three kids, we have 245,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yowza.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like a lot of money, but when you look at these tuitions, doesn't seem like a lot of money.

[Mark T. McGowan]

True, true. Good point.

[Patrick]

So. But we continue to plow money into it. I think we're putting. When I first wrote to you, I think I put 2700amonth, but I think I undershot that a little bit. I think we're putting about 3,800amonth into those 529.

[Mark T. McGowan]

That's a lot. Wow. Amazing. It feels like a lot, I'm sure. So, I mean, well, you're saving a lot of money, which is incredible. Do you have money in sort of a safe, boring checking savings Money market, that kind of stuff.

[Patrick]

Yeah, we moved money into high yield. We had, we had sold a house. We only own one house. I'm not one of these real estate folks. But when we sold our old house, we took some of the equity and just put it into savings. So we have about $135,000 in cash, of which 75,000 is sort of the. In an emergency fund. And that's just in a online high yield savings account.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Terrific. Your home is worth how much money?

[Patrick]

I would say just shy of 1.1 million. Would we live in one of these crazy real estate areas of the country? So I think the last time I looked on Zwillow, they were saying 1.1.

[Mark T. McGowan]

And what about the outstanding mortgage amount?

[Patrick]

The bank owns most of it. I think we have 700,000 remaining on a 30 year fixed. The interest rate because we bought only the last couple of years is 6.6 to 5, which pains me even to say, but that's.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Hold on a second. Let's have a moment. Mark, do you want to have a little like, like meeting of the minds and have a little bit of a. Yeah. Raise your glass every time you say something over the six percentage, Mark?

[Mark]

Yes, but it's better than, you know, the 15% that we saw in the 80s, right?

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yeah. There you go. Mark likes to look to history quite often. So this is a, this is good. So, Patrick, you guys seem to be in excellent shape. I just want to do a few other odds and ends. Have you guys have, do you have life insurance?

[Patrick]

We do have life insurance. I have about 1.5 million and my wife has a million.

[Mark T. McGowan]

And this is term, right?

[Patrick]

Term, yes.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, great. What about your estate documents?

[Patrick]

I sent them in. I do have legal services through work, so.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Great.

[Patrick]

Before writing you, we made sure that we had sent those in. We're just waiting for the executed docs to come back from the law firm.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Fantastic RSUs. Do you sell on that when things are vesting? Do you sell immediately or not?

[Patrick]

No, I mean, I will say I think my first year of getting RSUs comes up in about four months. My intention is to just take the stock. I get to choose whether I want cash value or stock. My plan is just to take the stock because the stock is fairly well performing. It pays a decent dividend and kind of just build up that pool.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

And then maybe later on look to diversify because I know you don't want me having too much money in my own company stock.

[Mark T. McGowan]

So what's going to come up that will vest in this first tranche, It'll.

[Patrick]

Be about $25,000 worth of stock.

[Mark T. McGowan]

So, ready for the magic question? That is always the hard one. How much money do you guys spend?

[Patrick]

We spend a lot of money right now, which I would like to blame on the kids.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, fine, but they're not here to defend themselves.

[Patrick]

But I would say all in with the mortgage and the savings we're doing.

[Mark T. McGowan]

No, no, no, not savings. Spending.

[Patrick]

So just spending, but including mortgage.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yeah, of course.

[Patrick]

I would say without the savings, we're at like 16,000amonth.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, well, good news for you. I got six grand covered already, which is fantastic. But that's not really going to go down even as your kids age, you know, you got kids for a while. And how long are you going to work? What do you think?

[Patrick]

That was a question I had for you.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Really?

[Mark T. McGowan]

Like you want me to give you the exact date exactly month, year. Okay. Are we paying for 100% of things? Three private university educations.

[Patrick]

We would like to pay for 100% of a public university education.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay.

[Patrick]

And if the kid decides to go private, because that's their dream, they're going to have to have some skin in the game, I think.

[Mark T. McGowan]

So if I have to send these kids to rutgers, like my 14 year old is going to go to Rutgers right now. What is that, 30 grand a year? 40 grand a year? What is it?

[Patrick]

Yeah, I think it's somewhere between 30 and 40. That's what we'd get the in state.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Rate, which is so horrifying to imagine that it's 40 grand and you're in state. So the money that you have in the 529 right this second, at least for, you know, the 14 year old, we can cover that. We're halfway with the 11 year old and we got a ways to go for the nine year old. And so we can, you know, push around the money however you want because you can shift between or among siblings. Right, right. So how is your cash flow right now? Like when you take this. And now I'm including your, your actual saving as well. So how are you feeling?

[Patrick]

Well, I mean, we have enough to cover everything each month. Sometimes if something comes up or we, or we do a home improvement, we're kind of dipping into the money that we have set aside for that purpose. And then there are some months where we have some leftover and we put it into, you know, the reverse. We put it into one of those accounts for rainy day or for a home improvement. So right now we're good.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay.

[Patrick]

We're not, you know, and we do things like we take vacations and we go out to dinner. So I feel like we're okay. You know, I just, when I listen to the show and I hear what other people are doing, they're doing a Roth or they're thinking of IRAs, I just wonder are we doing enough or are there other things we should be doing?

[Mark T. McGowan]

Well, I mean, first of all, I think you've done a great job. I know that you say late or this or that. I think you really have done a very, very good job. You got about, you know, by. I'm not, I'm not looking at the hsa, I'm not even looking at the high yield savings. But you got about 550 grand that's saved by my quick calculation and not including your 529. Now obviously if you didn't want to push so much money into your 529, you could be pushing that money into your brokerage account. When you think about retirement, you got a nine year old, you're not retiring before this nine year old gets through college. Is that fair enough?

[Patrick]

Fair enough. Yeah.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Right. So like that's silly, right? So we got 12 years. So 62. How about 62? Does that strike you as a decent age?

[Patrick]

I would love to do 62. When I've been running the calculators. I've been using 65 just because, let's.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Say 62 because I have a magic slam dunk. Oh my God. Mark was doing it as I speak. Okay, so Mark, why don't you explain how that is? You, you came up with that? So we have 550 that they've saved already. We have the. And again, this presumes, Patrick, you stay at this job, you're using his pre tax contribution and then you're also putting in their match and their defined contribution pension. Is that what you. Did you add that all in, Mark?

[Mark]

Yeah, I have them saving. I mean ballpark, 100,000 a year combined.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, so 100 grand a year and not even like, listen, for all we know your wife sticks around. Maybe she doesn't, but we're just going to freeze her pension at this place. So at 100 grand a year on top of the 550 they've saved Mark, where does that get them at his. In 12 years that's going to be.

[Mark]

About $3 million, give or take.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Okay, and so that's 3 million right there. We're not even shifting any of the money away from the 529 at that. In other words, we have you putting that 3,800 into the 529. But then once you have those couple kids that are already, you know, a little bit older, especially the 14 year old, we don't even have you shifting that money anywhere else. We just have that, like, sort of extra money that's floating around. Let's, let's call that our inflation. So $3 million. And then Mark, are you. So what are you presuming happens at age 62?

[Mark]

And by the way, that's a conservative assumption.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Three, because he's, he's been around me too long because I would be like.

[Mark]

I mean, they're gonna, they're gonna have the pension. They can, they obviously will have $3 million to draw on. And then, you know, when they get to 70 or 67, 70, they have Social Security. And both of those numbers are pretty large.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yeah. What. Have you looked at your Social Security any at all, Patrick?

[Patrick]

I did. So. So I ran mine at 70 because our plan was for me to wait till 70. The current estimate is $4,440 a month. And my wife, we ran hers at 67, and hers is estimated at 3,700amonth.

[Mark T. McGowan]

What's kind of great is that you have 16, we have the pension, which would, again, we're doing it in today's dollars. Okay, so let's just say you've got, of the 16 that you spend today, you have six grand of that that's taken up from the pension. You've got money, money from your portfolio that can spit out, you know, some amount of money, you know, 100 something or other. 100, you know, whatever. We'll have a lot of money that, let's say 90 to $100,000 a year. And then, you know, you, you wait eight years and, you know, five and eight years and you're going to have Social Security. So it looks to me like 62 is completely doable, completely doable. And clearly having those two pensions is a big deal. The other thing I just want to encourage you to do, you know, when those RSU's come up and you want to take the stock, I want you to sell it. I want you to, like, if you want, I would take the cash. Or if you want, you can take it the first time around. But I want you to get disciplined about selling those RSUs on an ongoing basis. Two things that, that does. First of all, it can really help you with your 529 right now. Okay? You have the money, you can pop the money in there, you're done. Okay. But if you. The other reason I like to be disciplined about it is if the company looks good now, great, then your job is safe. If the company rolls over, then your RSUs disappear and become less valuable. And then maybe your job is at risk. So if you want to do it like one time, fine. And maybe your 25 grand will turn into 50 grand in a year or two. But I think you should adopt a more conservative approach, which would be taking those RSU's when they come up and available, sell it out. I've been through this with many, many of our listeners, you know, some of whom work at the very famous companies that have gone up in value. And I just still think to have some semblance of a strategy of just being disciplined is really good for you.

[Patrick]

Okay. Okay.

[Mark T. McGowan]

That's just me. Mark. Have I missed anything?

[Mark]

The only other thing I would say, I was just reading the email. They're kind of like 90, 10 allocation.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yeah. Because he's a player.

[Patrick]

So.

[Mark]

Yeah. I mean, at this stage of the game, I would probably peel it back a little bit.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Yeah. I mean, there's. You know what, it's funny. There's not a huge difference performance wise, being 80, 20, 70, 30. It just isn't.

[Mark]

Not on the upside, but it helps on the downside.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It does.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Right. And so you don't get a huge bump up on the upside. So I would, I would absolutely consider that. Okay. You can take that for what it's worth. We're wimpy. Okay. But you'll have a lot of money. This is good. It's a great, great plan. Patrick, you're a delight.

[Patrick]

You know what?

[Mark T. McGowan]

I think you guys are in great shape. So, hey, gang, if you are like Patrick and his wife, like, you know, you live in a high cost of living area, by the way, it does strike me that you know somebody who's living in a high cost of living state like New Jersey or Connecticut or New York or California, especially in one of these burbs where you've got really good schools, Right. You know, you make four or five hundred grand, you feel like you're the working rich, you know, like the other dingbats in your neighborhood who are working on Wall street, are making a lot more money, and you compare yourself. Don't worry if you feel like you're struggling a little bit or you feel like you just need another set of eyes and ears on your situation.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Get in touch with us.

[Mark T. McGowan]

Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact Us button, write us that note and if you'd like to come on the air, check the box. Mark will do everything else. Don't forget that you can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. And if you need more Jill and Mark, then you should also subscribe to our Money Watch podcast because then you get us on Saturdays and Sundays. And as Patrick said, he needed that. He needed the seven day a week Jill fix and I'm glad we could give it to him. So please do check that out, okay? And lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Mark T. McGowan]

You'Re feeling this too.

[Jill Schlesinger]

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