Moving Parts in Retirement

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger – Episode: Moving Parts in Retirement

Release Date: January 13, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of "Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger," host Jill Schlesinger, CFP®, delves into the multifaceted aspects of retirement planning. Joined by co-host Mark and guest Dennis from Pennsylvania, the conversation navigates the complexities of transitioning into retirement, emphasizing strategic financial decisions to ensure a secure and fulfilling post-work life. The episode, titled "Moving Parts in Retirement," offers listeners actionable insights and expert advice tailored to those approaching or entering retirement.

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Guest Profile: Dennis from Pennsylvania

Dennis, a 65-year-old retiree from Pennsylvania, joins the show to discuss his recent transition into retirement. Accompanied by his wife, also 65, who is partially retired and draws a pension from her career as a school teacher, Dennis provides a real-world perspective on retirement planning. Their daughter, who is disabled and resides with them, adds another layer to their financial considerations, particularly concerning special needs trusts and beneficiary planning.

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Main Discussion Points

1. Transitioning into Retirement

Dennis recently began his retirement, effective the previous Friday. The hosts congratulate him and his wife, highlighting the significance of their decision to retire at the age of 65. Mark and Jill explore Dennis's feelings about this transition, with Dennis expressing a sense of accomplishment and readiness to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

2. Income Sources in Retirement

The conversation outlines Dennis and his wife's income streams:

• Wife's Pension: Approximately $5,500 per month.
• Part-Time Employment: Dennis's wife earns about $2,000 monthly from part-time work.
• Social Security: Dennis anticipates receiving $2,850 per month at full retirement age, while his wife's Social Security benefits are estimated at $1,000 per month due to the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP).

Notable Quote:

"We have thought about everything from claiming it now until 70, and we really don't know what the best idea is." – Dennis [05:36]

3. Retirement Savings and Investment Strategies

Dennis and his wife have accumulated significant savings and investment accounts:

• Total Savings: Approximately $628,000 in various accounts, including brokerage accounts and IRAs.
• 401(k): Dennis holds a traditional 401(k) valued at $220,000, which he plans to roll over into an IRA.
• Roth Accounts: Each spouse has a Roth account with about $57,000.
• Mortgage: Their home is valued at $375,000 with an outstanding mortgage of $140,000 at a 3.65% interest rate.

Discussion Highlights:

• Withdrawal Strategy: Mark advises withdrawing from traditional retirement accounts (401(k) and IRAs) before tapping into brokerage accounts to manage tax liabilities effectively.
• Tax Bracket Considerations: With a pre-retirement income of around $150,000, Dennis's household income will drop into a lower tax bracket post-retirement, allowing for tax-efficient withdrawals.
• Social Security Timing: The hosts discuss the pros and cons of claiming Social Security benefits early versus waiting until age 70 to maximize monthly payouts.

Notable Quote:

"This was our target date. Really?" – Dennis [17:16]

"I think you're in good shape, and so I applaud you. I think that you should take the money out now, especially over the next four years where tax rates are going to be where they're going to be." – Mark [12:43]

4. Special Considerations for Dennis's Family

Dennis has an adult daughter with disabilities, necessitating the establishment of a special needs trust to ensure she continues to receive necessary benefits without jeopardizing her eligibility. Both Dennis and his wife have estate documents in place to secure their daughter's future.

Notable Quote:

"Do you have estate documents? Done?" – Mark [14:50]

"Yes." – Dennis [14:51]

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Insights and Expert Advice

Mark's Strategic Recommendations:

1. Withdrawal Sequencing: Begin withdrawing from traditional retirement accounts (401(k)s and IRAs) before utilizing brokerage accounts to capitalize on lower tax brackets.
2. Tax Optimization: Take advantage of the current favorable tax rates by extracting larger sums from taxable accounts early in retirement, potentially keeping taxable income within the 22% bracket.
3. Social Security Timing: While Dennis and his wife are uncertain about when to claim Social Security, waiting until age 70 could significantly increase monthly benefits, providing greater financial security in later years.
4. Expense Planning: With a target monthly income of $10,000, Dennis’s current income sources combined with strategic withdrawals from retirement accounts should comfortably meet their needs without endangering their daughter’s benefits.

Estate Planning:

Mark underscores the importance of having robust estate planning documents, including special needs trusts, to safeguard the financial well-being of dependents.

Notable Quote:

"Why not use it? And by the way, when does that mortgage get paid off? Do you know how many more years you have?" – Mark [16:07]

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Conclusion

The episode "Moving Parts in Retirement" offers a comprehensive exploration of the intricate planning required for a successful retirement. Through Dennis’s personal experience, Jill and Mark provide listeners with valuable strategies for income management, tax optimization, and estate planning. The discussion emphasizes the importance of proactive financial planning and the benefits of seeking expert advice to navigate the challenges of retirement. Listeners are encouraged to evaluate their own retirement plans and consider similar strategies to ensure a secure and enjoyable retirement.

Final Notable Quote:

"If you've got a question about retirement, don't wait till you've retired. Wait. Why don't you give us a holler before you retire?" – Mark [18:30]

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Key Takeaways

• Strategic Withdrawals: Prioritize withdrawals from traditional retirement accounts to manage taxes effectively.
• Tax Bracket Management: Leveraging lower tax brackets in early retirement can maximize the longevity of savings.
• Social Security Planning: Delaying Social Security benefits can substantially increase monthly payouts, enhancing financial stability in later years.
• Estate Planning: Comprehensive estate planning, including special needs trusts, is crucial for families with dependents requiring ongoing support.
• Proactive Financial Planning: Engaging with financial advisors before retirement ensures informed and strategic decision-making.

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Additional Resources

Listeners are encouraged to visit jillonmoney.com for more information, subscribe to the free weekly newsletter, and explore other content offerings such as blogs and video sections to further enhance their financial literacy and retirement planning strategies.

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the critical aspects of retirement planning discussed by Jill Schlesinger, Mark, and guest Dennis, enriched with direct quotes and timestamps for authenticity and deeper understanding.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Mark]

It's Monday, January 13th and we are here trying to help you make better, less bad, more considered financial decisions. Now, some of you are really smart.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You really don't need our guidance.

[Mark]

But maybe you need a little cheerleading. Maybe you need a little coaching. Some others may feel like, oh, you're embarrassed. Don't worry, it's just us and everybody listening. And if you've got something going on, we really would be loving it if you could get on that website, jillonmoney.com, click that contact Us button, write us a note. Let us know if you'd like to join us on the air while you're on the website. Don't forget to sign up for the free weekly newsletter. Hey, Mark, how do we end the year with weekly newsletter subscriptions? Did they tick up? Like, how did things go on the newsletter side?

[Dennis]

Yeah, they're always ticking up. They're not going down.

[Mark]

Well, people leave, so some people opt out.

[Dennis]

Yeah, but more are coming than leaving.

[Mark]

Okay, so I want a number. You know, I like numbers. And then we also had Jill on Money Live. We had a surge of activity at the end of last year because Jill on Money Live, our subscription service, the fee went from 35 to 45. I bet that a lot of people are still going to join us at 45.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We are beefing that up.

[Mark]

That's going to be good.

[Dennis]

Let me just say, if you signed up when it was 35, you will continue to be charged. 35.

[Mark]

Yeah, you get that. 35. But if you're at 45. Yeah, it's 45. But we're probably going to go up again. You know, we're trying to grandfather people in, you know, not for.

[Dennis]

Not next year. We just jacked it up.

[Mark]

All right, well, you never know. We're going to put a lot more stuff on the website and behind the paywall. So if you all want to be part of that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, yes, I'd love it.

[Mark]

Oh, by the way, someone gave me. Wrote me a nasty gram separately, Mark, and said to me, there's too many ads. I'm like, well, how do you think that we make money? How do you think we produce a show? Like, we have ads. Sorry, dude. Like, there's a way to create free content. It's called advertising. And since I come from not just this business, but also the television network. Television business. Yeah. Until all of you sign up for Jill on Money Live, there's gonna be ads. Gotta tell you, that's the way it's gonna go. Mark wants to take us all off ads and just make it a subscription service. I don't wanna do that. I want to have a free version for all of you. But if. If your guys are dying to get rid of the ads, then, you know, we'll, like, put a substack out there. We'll make a show that's just for you, but it's going to be like, real money. So let's have as many people as possible listening. That's the part that I like. Thank you very much. Okay, that's my soapbox. I'm stepping down now. Today we are joined by Dennis, who's on the line from Pennsylvania. And Dennis, we are delighted to hear from you. What's going on. How can we help you out?

[Dennis]

Just entering retirement right now, effective last Friday.

[Mark]

Oh my God. Congratulations. That's awesome.

[Dennis]

Nothing like getting ahead of the planning, right?

[Mark]

Wow. Yeah. You really, you got yourself together. But how did it feel?

[Dennis]

Oh, it feels great. Yeah?

[Mark]

Yeah. How old are you?

[Dennis]

65.

[Mark]

Okay. Are you single, married, Partnered, married?

[Dennis]

My wife is 65 also.

[Mark]

She work or is she retired as well? How did you make the decision to like do it? What was the. What was the motivating factor?

[Dennis]

Just we're not getting any younger, you know, you gotta do it.

[Mark]

And do you guys have financial security? Was it a hard decision or not?

[Dennis]

No, I think we're. I think we're pretty good and I hope you tell me that we didn't make a mistake, but.

[Mark]

Yeah, I mean, I wish you would have done this like a year ago, but okay. Today is fine too. So let's, let's chat about what's going on and let's see how you are doing. Tell me everything. What is happening? What do you got?

[Dennis]

You want to know? Investment accounts. What?

[Mark]

Well, let's talk about income. You're 65 years old. Do either of you have pensions?

[Dennis]

My wife has a pension.

[Mark]

Oh, yes, tell me about that.

[Dennis]

She. About 5,500amonth.

[Mark]

Okay. And any other income she gets, she.

[Dennis]

Works part time, makes probably that's about 2,000amonth from that.

[Mark]

Well, it sounds like someone's carrying the load here for you guys. Nice of her. What about the, what about the Social Security outlook for you?

[Dennis]

I'd say we need one of his claimed yet. For myself. Retirement at full retirement, I think it's like 2850amonth.

[Mark]

Okay, and what about for her?

[Dennis]

Well, she's. She was a school teacher. That's how she got most of her pension. Everything so affected by the WEP or the Jeep, you know, the offset. So I think it's going to work out where she's going to have about a thousand a month.

[Mark]

Okay. That's a lot of money you guys have. What do you figure you need?

[Dennis]

You know, I'd like to go between 9 and 10,000amonth.

[Mark]

Let's use 10 just because it's a nice round number. Why not? Right? So what about your savings? How. How much have you saved?

[Dennis]

Well, we've got in various accounts, we've probably got about 628,000 and like a broke in investment accounts and brokerage. And then I've got a 401k, that's about 220,000.

[Mark]

Okay. And the 401k is a traditional 401k, not a Roth, right?

[Dennis]

Correct.

[Mark]

Okay, and what about for her? Does she have a 403B because she was a teacher?

[Dennis]

No, just the pension.

[Mark]

Okay. Oh, don't worry, I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. What about your home and do you own it?

[Dennis]

We own it. It's got probably about 375 worth. 375. We owe 140 on it with a 3.65.

[Mark]

Does your wife want to continue to earn this $2,000 a month part time? Is she like, I don't know if she's like substituting or whatever, but is that something you think is going to be consistent? What do you, what do you think?

[Dennis]

Yeah, that's consistent. We have that and a adult daughter who is disabled. She lives with us. So my wife is kind of employed to make sure that she gets adequate representation. Okay, so probably continue.

[Mark]

Does your daughter qualify for assistance because of. Okay, so, and that just. Is there money? When you said the $10,000 a month, does that include money that you would need for your daughter which is not covered by the assistance she receives?

[Dennis]

Yes.

[Mark]

Okay, got it. So no moving anywhere soon, right?

[Dennis]

No.

[Mark]

Okay. And no other homes. Just the. What you got. Okay. In for two years. What's the game plan for the next two years? You're both 65. You know, you've got $7,500 a month of income and we're not going to collect that Social Security for a couple of years. So what were you thinking of spending down some of the brokerage money or the 401k money?

[Dennis]

Really? You know, that's what we're looking for help from. I mean, we've got. In a brokerage account. We've got a couple. Well, I've got 125,000 in brokerage account and the rest of it's all in 401ks or IRAs or Roth.

[Mark]

Oh, I see, because you said brokerage, so I put it down brokerage. But let's, let's make. Let me get that straight. So 220 is 401k. That's not part of the 628 that you gave me, right?

[Dennis]

Correct.

[Mark]

Okay, so let break down that 628 for me. What has already been taxed like plain old brokerage account.

[Dennis]

Brokerage account. We've got 125,000.

[Mark]

Okay. And then the rest of it, tell me where is that? Is that Roth or is it traditional?

[Dennis]

We have two Roth. Each of them have about 57 in it. 57,000 each.

[Mark]

So 114,000 in Roth.

[Dennis]

Right.

[Mark]

Okay, gotcha.

[Dennis]

Ira, that's got 200,000 Ira, that's got 187.

[Mark]

Okay, so. And the game plan is we need to take out some money from this 401k, either of the 401ks or the. Or the IRAs, to get some of that money out. And I would do that before I did the brokerage account. So the 220 that you said is in a 401k, is that in the company's plan? Do you intend to roll that over or is that going to stay where it is?

[Dennis]

I intend to roll it over.

[Mark]

Okay, so that'll be added to either the 200 or the 180. 200, right.

[Dennis]

Correct.

[Mark]

Okay, so what now I understand is that you have 420 that is, you know, associated with your tax ID number. She has her 187. So I think what I would do.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is I would use.

[Mark]

Once you've rolled your money into your existing Iraq, that's what I would use for the next couple of years and start pulling money out of it. Because, you know, you're not in a huge tax bracket. I don't know what you guys were making. What were you making before you retired? What was your total income between.

[Dennis]

Yeah, between the two of us, gross was probably about 150.

[Mark]

Okay, so we're dropping down a tax bracket.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right.

[Mark]

So that's kind of. That's maybe not necessary, but maybe, you know, like, because you still have income. But I think that it would be great for you to pull the money out of your account and you don't have to go nuts. But until you collect Social Security, maybe it's worth it to start being a little more aggressive. You could stay in the 22% bracket by having total income of 200,000. You could pull out 50 grand a year for the next couple of years. Did you ever consider waiting to claim your Social Security until to age 70?

[Dennis]

We have thought about everything from claiming it now until 70, and we really don't know what the best idea is.

[Mark]

Tell me about your health, both of you. How are you feeling? Life is good.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Are you healthy?

[Dennis]

We're both in pretty good health, yeah.

[Mark]

And do you have longevity in your genes?

[Dennis]

Both of us had one parent that passed, you know, 70, mid-70s to 80, and then both of us have a parent that lived to be 90.

[Mark]

Hmm, interesting. I think that what I would do is I would pull the money out. I'm not even sure, Mark, would you wait until 70 for them? They don't really need to. They can pull money out of his retirement account and, you know, take a bunch of money out at age for 65, 66, 67. And then once they claim, they maybe take a little bit less money out. But if they wait till 70, the benefit for you specifically is going to rise in a, in a pretty nice way. I mean, so you could claim at 70 and probably be over three grand, you know, Probably. Do you have a number?

[Dennis]

I think it's about 35, Mark.

[Mark]

Would you wait till 70?

[Dennis]

What's the 67 number?

[Mark]

2850 versus 3500. Yeah.

[Dennis]

That's a nice jump.

[Mark]

It is a nice jump. And they've got the money. I mean, okay, if you, if you die too soon, this doesn't work. I got to tell you that right now. Dennis, stay healthy, all right? I mean, it's not a bad gamble. She could take hers at 67 because she's going to have a weird. I mean, she's going to have a different kind of a benefit anyway. But what I think is if you waited and you. For the next five years, let's say that you took 50 grand a year out of your retirement account, okay? Paid the tax, it's due, stay in your 22% bracket. You don't need to go beyond that. And whatever you don't use for spending money, they'll go into your brokerage account, but you can get it out and you can pay it at the 22% bracket. And then at 70, you claim, and then you're probably not going to need to take much money out. You're really not. And then I think you're in perfect, perfect condition because, you know, you only need 7,500 gross. Maybe another 27,500.

[Dennis]

Isn't that, isn't that.

[Mark]

Yep, yep. I'm thinking that, like, if we got you that 50 grand a year for this year until age 70, you're good. I think if you took that 50 grand a year, you pay the tax that's due, that'll give you all of your post tax expense need that you have. We're not going to endanger your daughter's benefits, are we?

[Dennis]

No.

[Mark]

Okay, So I think that that's the game plan. I'd wait till 70. I think I would. I'd roll the dice.

[Dennis]

No fear in taking $250,000 out of the, what, 800 I have.

[Mark]

Look. What did we save it for? Yeah, you know, like you retired, like, you get to spend it, Mark, you want to give your impassioned plea for people to spend the money they save.

[Dennis]

This is the pension they've been building up for all these years. Time to turn it on. Right?

[Mark]

Right. Absolutely. And you're entitled to it, you know.

[Dennis]

Believe me. We want to spend it, you know?

[Mark]

Yeah. Do you have estate documents? Done?

[Dennis]

Yes.

[Mark]

And do you have something that's created called a special needs trust for your daughter?

[Dennis]

Yes.

[Mark]

Okay, good. I just want to double check on that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I think you're good.

[Mark]

I don't think you should have a fear in some respects. I'd love for this money to get taken out now, especially over the next four years or five years, where we kind of understand that tax rates are going to be where they're going to be. Right, Right. They're gonna. I think. I mean, I guess if something strange happened and there was no tax deal in Congress this year, which would be surprising to me, and we wanna hear from you again. But other, based on where we are today, I'd like you to take as much money as you can out at 22%. You're not gonna go much below that, you know, so why not? I would go ahead and do that. I'd pull the money out, I'd pay the tax on it. And you're not gonna pay 50. You're not gonna pull 50 grand a year forever. You're just gonna do it till, at your age, 70. And because of her windfall elimination, does that mean that the thousand dollars she gets, it doesn't really help her to wait. She'll just have to grab that at 67. So that will help your cash flow as well, right?

[Dennis]

Yeah, that's with the. Since the elimination, they've changed the law, so that should be gone. So she should be at $1,000.

[Mark]

All right, so she gets that at her 67. That seems good to me. I just think that you have done something which is you worked very hard. You've put the money away. We've got this, you know, 800 grand in retirement assets. You'll probably never have to touch the roth. Why not use it? And by the way, when does that mortgage get paid off? Do you know how many more years you have?

[Dennis]

Seven. Eight to nine, maybe. Eight to nine, yeah.

[Mark]

So when that happens, your cash flow is going to get even better.

[Dennis]

Right.

[Mark]

So I think you're in good shape, and so I applaud you. And I think that you should take the money run, have fun, and, you know, if something changes, get back in touch with us. But I think that if anyone is listening, like, it doesn't sound like you know, you were not. I get you are not hasty in making this decision. You didn't say it's. I'm 56 and I want to retire. You worked your butt off and you worked to your 65. You got your Medicare. Everything is good.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right.

[Mark]

Like, why? Was there any chance that you were going to wait even longer or not?

[Dennis]

No, no. This was. This was our target date. Really? I guess a question would be. You're saying take it out of my IRS. Yeah, she is. She was born in 59, so her RMDs will start before mine.

[Mark]

Oh, all right. So do hers. It doesn't really matter. Yeah, it's fine. It's totally fine. There's not a huge difference. But since she is a little older.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And maybe it'll be even easier. We'll just like, drain hers out. We'll be done. Right. And then we'll. We'll reconvene and see where you are.

[Dennis]

Okay.

[Mark]

How's that?

[Dennis]

That sounds good. Yeah.

[Mark]

Are you nervous? You feel good?

[Dennis]

I. I feel good about it. You know, I've just have never really thought about taking money out of the IRAs. You know, my thought was maybe just spin down the brokerage account.

[Mark]

No, I want that. That money's already been taxed. We haven't taxed this money yet. And now we know the taxes again. Let's deal with what is today.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Today is.

[Mark]

Hey, tax rates are really low. Let's. Let's like, take advantage of that. And they're probably going to be low for the next four years, so why not? I think. I think it's a great time for you to use the tax law to your advantage. Absolutely.

[Dennis]

Okay.

[Mark]

All right, good.

[Dennis]

Yeah, sounds great.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Take care.

[Mark]

Hey, if you've got a question about retirement, don't wait till you've retired. Wait. Why don't you give us a holler before you retire? Or if you have somebody in your life who is special needs and you want to have a conversation about how to make sure that you don't forego their benefits, but also take care of them, Give us a Holler. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, and of course, check the box if you want to come on the air live with us. All of our content lives on Jill on Money, and you can check that out. We've got another podcast. We've got a radio show.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We've got a blog, We've got a video section.

[Mark]

Resources.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's all there for you.

[Mark]

You can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app. Or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen.

[Mark]

And of course, please try to do something nice for someone else today. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Real Estate it's been a cornerstone of wealth building for generations, but it's also often a major headache for investors. 3:00am Maintenance calls, tenant disputes, property taxes Enter the Fundrise Flagship Real estate fund, a $1.1 billion real estate portfolio built for you. We're Talking more than 4,000 single family homes in thriving Sunbelt communities, 3.3 million square feet of in demand industrial facilities, all professionally managed by an experienced team. With the Flagship Fund, you're tapping into real estate's most attractive qualities. Long term appreciation potential, a hedge against inflation, diversification beyond the stock market. Check, check, check. All without complex paperwork, massive down payments or soul sucking landlord duties. Visit fundrise.comjillonmoney to explore the portfolio. Check out historical returns and see just how easy it can be to add real estate to your investing strategy. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the Fund's [e-mail] Flagship this is a paid Advertisement.

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