Nervous About Retirement

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Nervous About Retirement"
Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
Host: Jill Schlesinger, CFP®
Release Date: December 26, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger, host Jill Schlesinger delves into the intricate concerns surrounding retirement planning. The episode centers around a listener call from Casey, who expresses anxiety about her husband's impending retirement. Jill navigates through Casey's financial landscape, offering expert advice and actionable strategies to alleviate her worries.

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Listener Call: Casey's Retirement Concerns

a. Financial Overview

Casey, a 55-year-old part-time worker, reaches out from Idaho to discuss her husband's retirement at age 61. She is concerned about ensuring their financial stability post-retirement.

• Income Details:

  • Husband's Income: Currently earning $69,000 annually.
  • Casey's Income: Brings home about $30,000 from part-time work.

  [02:34]
  Casey: "I bring home about $30,000."

Jill confirms their combined income and probes deeper into their cash flow and preparedness.

b. Income Streams in Retirement

Casey's husband is set to receive a pension, and both partners will be entitled to Social Security benefits.

• Pension Details:

  • Gross Pension: $2,316 monthly.
  • Net Pension (after taxes): Approximately $1,900 monthly.

  [03:09]
  Casey: "His GROSS will be $2,316. I figured with taxes out, he'll be bringing home about $1,900."

• Social Security Benefits:

  • Husband: $2,250 at full retirement age (67).
  • Casey: $1,459 at full retirement age.

  [04:29]
  Casey: "His at 67 is $2,250. Mine is $1,459."

Both plan to continue working part-time, with Casey intending to work for six more years to bolster their savings.

c. Savings and Investments

Casey outlines their savings strategy, showcasing a diverse portfolio aimed at securing their financial future.

• Retirement Accounts:

  • Roth IRAs: $138,000 combined.
  • 401(k): Husband has $42,000, planning to convert to Roth.
  • Thrift Savings Plan (TSP): Casey has $16,000, contributing 15% to Roth and 3% to traditional for employer matching.

  [06:25]
  Casey: "So currently we have $138,000 in Roth."

• Other Savings:

  • Brokerage Account: $3,000, with ongoing contributions of $750/month.
  • Certificates of Deposit (CDs): $42,000.
  • Cash and Bank Accounts: $40,000.

  [06:49]
  Casey: "We have $42,000 in CDs and about $40,000 in cash and bank accounts."

Jill encourages Casey to maintain these savings streams to support their retirement plans.

d. Real Estate Holdings

The couple owns their primary residence and another property currently on the market.

• Primary Home: Valued at $850,000 with no remaining mortgage.

  [07:03]
  Casey: "The one that we're in, our place here, is about $850,000."

• Second Home: Selling for a net of approximately $140,000, with $80,000 allocated to their brokerage account for home improvements.

  [07:25]
  Casey: "We're selling currently. And we should net about $140,000."

Jill notes the significance of their real estate assets in their overall financial strategy.

e. Short-Term Concerns and Risks

Casey's primary anxiety revolves around the next six years and the potential risks associated with unforeseen events, such as the premature passing of her husband.

• Health Care Considerations:

  • Husband is covered under Casey’s health insurance until she retires at 62, after which she can cover both under her federal government employment benefits.

  [03:31]
  Casey: "Yes, I work federal government. So at 62, when I retire, I will be able to keep both of us on our insurance."

• Risk of Insufficient Income:

  • Casey worries about the stability of income streams post-retirement, emphasizing the unpredictability despite having a pension.

  [05:45]
  Casey: "Well, because it's not going to be a. I don't know. I just feel like it's not steady income. Even though it's a pension, it's not the same."

f. Risk Management: Life Insurance Discussion

Jill introduces the idea of securing life insurance as a hedge against the financial risks of losing a primary income earner.

• Life Insurance Proposal:

  • A 10-year term life insurance policy for Casey’s husband, covering $250,000, estimated at approximately $360/month.

  [15:27]
  Jill: "Do a 62 year old guy and get me a half a million dollars. What would that cost on an annual basis?"

• Comparison with Pension Survivor Benefits:

  • Jill discusses the cost-benefit analysis of life insurance versus relying solely on the pension's survivor benefits.

  [19:02]
  Jill: "This is like, actually, like a little bit of like a hedge against your pension bet."

Casey is encouraged to obtain quotes for life insurance to better understand her options and decide the most prudent course of action.

g. Estate Planning Considerations

With a blended family of eight grown children, 23 grandchildren, and one great-grandchild, estate planning is crucial.

• Current Status:

  • Casey has prepared estate documents, though they remain unsigned.

  [15:43]
  Casey: "I have them ready, but they're not signed yet."

• Inheritance Concerns:

  • The complexity of splitting assets among multiple beneficiaries necessitates clear and legally binding estate plans.

  [15:46]
  Jill: "Which means for everyone listening, when you have a complicated second marriage, it is incumbent upon you to actually get this done."

Jill emphasizes the importance of finalizing estate documents to prevent future disputes and ensure that Casey's wishes are honored.

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Jill’s Insights and Advice

Throughout the conversation, Jill offers pragmatic advice tailored to Casey's unique financial situation:

1. Evaluate Life Insurance:
   Assessing the cost and benefits of life insurance to mitigate financial risks associated with retirement.

   [19:22]
   Jill: "Let's find out what the differential is. And if it's too much, you might be like, I'm rolling the dice. I don't care. We'll be fine."

2. Maximize Savings Contributions:
   Continuing to contribute to Roth IRAs and other savings accounts to strengthen their financial position.

   [08:28]
   Jill: "Oh, my God, I love you. You're me."

3. Diversify Income Streams:
   Maintaining multiple sources of income, including part-time work and investments, to ensure financial stability.

4. Finalize Estate Planning:
   Completing and signing estate documents to secure her family's financial future and avoid potential conflicts.

   [15:43]
   Jill: "Truly. I mean also, because look... Women live longer."

5. Assess Survivor Benefits:
   Understanding the benefits provided by pensions and whether additional coverage is necessary to safeguard against unforeseen events.

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Casey's call concludes on a more reassured note after Jill's comprehensive guidance. The episode underscores the importance of:

• Proactive Financial Planning:
  Addressing potential risks and uncertainties before they impact retirement security.

• Comprehensive Risk Management:
  Utilizing tools like life insurance to protect against significant financial setbacks.

• Clear Estate Planning:
  Ensuring that legal documents are in place to manage and distribute assets according to one's wishes.

Jill encourages listeners to engage with their financial planners, ask the right questions, and take actionable steps to secure their retirement. She invites others to reach out with their financial concerns, emphasizing the show's commitment to helping listeners make informed and confident financial decisions.

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Notable Quotes:

• "[03:09] Casey: 'His GROSS will be $2,316. I figured with taxes out, he'll be bringing home about $1,900.'”

• "[05:45] Casey: 'Well, because it's not going to be a. I don't know. I just feel like it's not steady income. Even though it's a pension, it's not the same.'"

• "[15:43] Casey: 'I have them ready, but they're not signed yet.'"

• "[19:22] Jill: 'Let's find out what the differential is. And if it's too much, you might be like, I'm rolling the dice. I don't care. We'll be fine.'"

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Jill on Money provides a deep dive into the multifaceted aspects of retirement planning, highlighting the importance of thorough preparation and risk assessment. Casey's journey offers valuable insights for listeners navigating similar financial transitions, emphasizing that with the right strategies and professional guidance, the anxiety surrounding retirement can be effectively managed.

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For more personalized financial advice, listeners are encouraged to visit jillonmoney.com, reach out with their questions, and consider joining the conversation on air. Subscribe to the weekly newsletter and follow the podcast on your preferred platform to stay informed and empowered in your financial decisions.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Casey]

I'm good. How are you, Jill?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Doing great. What can we do for you today?

[Casey]

I just am a little nervous about my husband retiring and want to make sure that what I'm looking at is correct.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Are you nervous because you don't want him around?

[Casey]

Oh, no, no. We do well together.

[Jill Schlesinger]

My mother was like, wait, you're. Wait, wait, you're going to stop. No, I don't want that. Okay. So how old are you guys?

[Casey]

I'm at 55 and he is 61.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Do you guys both work full time?

[Casey]

He does. I work part time.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. How much does he earn right now.

[Casey]

He is about $69,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And how about your part time work, Casey?

[Casey]

I bring home about $30,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right. And on that combined income, $30,000. And you're 69. How is your cash flow, do you feel?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, I like. Yes. That's good. Will your husband be entitled to a pension?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Tell me about the pension.

[Casey]

His GROSS Will be 23:16. I figured with taxes out, he'll be bringing home about $1,900.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And will you keep working part time, Casey?

[Casey]

Yes, for six more years.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, you got that. You're on it. What about his health care? What do you. Will he be entitled to get some health care between age 61 and 65?

[Casey]

Yes, I will put him on mine.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Ah, that's the six more years.

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, boy. But wait a minute. In six years you'll also need health care.

[Casey]

I will. I work federal government. So at 62, when I retire, I will be able to keep both of us on our. The insurance.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Will you be entitled to a pension also?

[Casey]

Yes. I don't know a lot about it yet, but I'm assuming it's going to be very minute.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And you guys, in terms of the. So it's, it's his retirement now, like the end of this year or is this. Has this been decided already or are you thinking about it?

[Casey]

We're planning on May of next year. So after he turns 62.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Now, in addition to the pension, will he ultimately be able to collect Social Security? And will you be able to collect Social Security?

[Casey]

Yes, both will.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And so can you give us the Social Security benefit at your full retirement age?

[Casey]

His at 67 is 2250. Mine is 1459.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. I love you. Got these dot. This is like. You got it. You're on it, girl. So do you guys have grown kids?

[Casey]

We have eight.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What?

[Casey]

Between the two of us, what's a second marriage?

[Jill Schlesinger]

I don't even know what to say. Eight children. And they're grown, though. But everyone's okay.

[Casey]

Grown. They're grown. Everybody's good. We have 23 grandchildren and one great grandchild.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, the Brady Bunch. Oh, my goodness gracious. It's great. Fantastic. And one great grandchild. What's the great grandchild call you?

[Casey]

Not yet. Nothing. She's not talking. She'll call me Grandma.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Because, you know, it's a very funny thing getting that name like, you know, who's Grandma, who's Nana, who's this one? I have a friend who is a great grandmother also. And she or her mother Is. And so they call the great grandmother Gigi.

[Casey]

Oh, yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's kind of cute, right?

[Casey]

Yes, it is.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, so think about that, Casey. I see I've added one thing to your life.

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Casey, how much do you and your husband need to live on? What's your spending look like now?

[Casey]

I figured with all of it, we're $2,500 a month.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's it?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What are you worried about?

[Casey]

Well, because it's not going to be a. I don't know. I just feel like it's not steady income. Even though it's a pension, it's not the same.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, wait a minute. It's better than a pen. Does he work for the federal government as well?

[Casey]

No, he works for local.

[Jill Schlesinger]

But it's a local pension. He'll claim it. They're not going to take it back from him.

[Casey]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And social, so. And does that have a cost of living adjustment attached to it?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my God. Okay, so take a deep breath. Tell us about the money you guys have saved in addition to all this pension and Social Security, that those streams of income are incredibly useful for funding this retirement. But what have you guys saved?

[Casey]

So currently we have 138,000 in Roth. Between the two of us, he has a 401k of 42,000 when he retires. I've saved up the taxes, so we'll roll that into. Convert that to a Roth. We have about 3,000 in a brokerage. We're putting currently, now 750amonth into that. That's kind of a sinking fund for cars and stuff.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yep.

[Casey]

We have 42,000 in CDs and then about 40,000 in cash and bank accounts.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Fantastic. Now, what about your home? Do you guys own your home?

[Casey]

We do.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much would you say that that house is worth?

[Casey]

The one that we're in, our place here is about 850,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is there a mortgage that remains on it?

[Casey]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, okay. And is there another home? Because. Is it the one that we live in here? Is there something else?

[Casey]

Yes, we have another home that we're actually going to. We're selling currently. And we should net about 450 or. I mean, excuse me, 1. 140.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wait a minute. I like 450 better. Let's go back to that. I do, too. So the second home you're going to net, let's see, 140, you said?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And so that 140 will get added to the brokerage account? Essentially, no.

[Casey]

We are have work to do on our home. Here and some stuff. So probably about 80,000 of that will go to the brokerage. The rest of it will go into what we're doing in our house.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, I mean, that seems fair. All right, so I'm going to say 70,000 just because I always think that work gets work, projects always get bigger. So they'll be so. So essentially there'll be about 75 grand in the next few years right now. But if he retires, right, you've got your 30,000 that you're earning. We have his pension benefit and we know that that will cover your needs. But you're still going to be able to save that 750amonth, you think?

[Casey]

Yeah, he's going to work part time. I told him he needs to fund our Roths.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my God, I love you. You're me. I don't have to do anything. What will his part time income be? He just needs to make what you're saying, like make some 20, 25 grand so you can do the Roths.

[Casey]

Exactly.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, fantastic.

[Casey]

Oh, I do have a TSP also.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, did you forget about that? Tell me about it. Yeah.

[Casey]

Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is yours?

[Casey]

About 16,000 right now. Probably not quite half of it is Roth.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Just so I understand this, the tsp, you're putting money into that account right now, right?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you're splitting it between the traditional and Roth. Is that what's happening?

[Casey]

Yeah, I'm putting 15% in Roth and 3% in traditional.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Is there any. Do you have to do the 3% to get some sort of match or something? Why are we doing the 3% in traditional?

[Casey]

Yes, they told me it was a match. They told me they match both my Roth and my traditional. So I just went up to the match on the traditional.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, that's fine. And so the game plan is, husband retires in May, the 401k, the 42,000 and the 401k rolls in. Eventually you're basically going to say, okay, Ira rollover, but then you're going to move it into the Roth. You're going to pay the tax that's due, Right. You're going to make that conversion. Okay. And so then going forward, the contribution is the 15% in the TSP and the 750amonth into the brokerage, and then he'll the funding of the two Roth IRAs on him, right?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, this is all good. What's your problem? Why are you all nervous?

[Casey]

I'm more nervous. I'm more nervous for the next six years. Really? That's my biggest concern, you know, if something happens to one or the other of us.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Does his retirement plan, the pension, does it have a survivor benefit?

[Casey]

It does. The number I gave you is without.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The benefit, what's the survivor benefit? Maybe we should be thinking about that because you're younger and you're a lady, and ladies live longer.

[Casey]

I. I believe it's 1,800 gross. Our biggest thing is his longevity and his family. His health is great. His grandmother lived in 99. We have a second home on this property that has his parents living in it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, oh, okay.

[Casey]

We'll be here as long as they're alive. So you know that 10 to 15 years or so. So that's my biggest concern is just to make sure we're okay in the, in the middle of all of this.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So you're feeling okay? Because normally what I would say is, hey, let's take the survivor benefit. But you're not. You're not as worried about that. You'd rather get more money up front, understanding the risk. But what you're. Are you saying to me that when the sale of the second home is not this other property on your property? Right. That's a separate issue.

[Casey]

That one is. So that'll be that that money will be coming in no matter what? Eventually, yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

When you said 850,000 is the value of your home, is that your home plus the other home on your property?

[Casey]

It is. It's all one place. Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And so you own that. And when they pass away, will whatever they have go to you and your husband? Or is it split among a lot of people? Like, what's going to happen?

[Casey]

Well, we own the home. They're just, they're living in it so we can. It's just easier to care for them, and then whatever they have will get split between him, between three siblings.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And do you think that if they were not with you, if they've passed away, would you think about selling this $850,000 property?

[Casey]

Probably after I retire.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. But it's a possibility.

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. It's like a nice little fail safe, because that's a lot of money. Obviously, a lot of your net worth tied up in the house. Right. So. And you could find something cheaper where you'd want to be in Idaho. Oh, very.

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So that's our fail safe. Okay. So let's think about, like, what is the downside here? The downside of the plan is something happens to your husband in the next bunch of years, next five or six years, Right?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

In that case, then I guess the problem is that we can't sell. Like, if it were just you, I'd say okay, but you'd sell the house and you'd be fine.

[Casey]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You can't make that decision, right?

[Casey]

I won't. Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. Okay, this is interesting. Does he have life insurance through his.

[Casey]

Current job, but not. There's a little bit through mine, but it's like enough to cover the funeral.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Can you buy life insurance on his life through your job as a benefit?

[Casey]

I don't know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I think we should check that out. I think that there is risk. You're right. It's not really five years. Really? Like 10 years. Because how old are his parents?

[Casey]

83 and 84.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I mean, it feels to me like There is a five to ten year window here. It's not 15. I doubt it, but let's just say it is for argument's sake that if we could have a little backstop for you in the form of life insurance, that would be helpful. It's going to be expensive, but we have to just weigh, is life insurance the better choice or is the pension survivor benefit the better choice? And I don't know that until we find out how much it would cost to get life insurance for him. Because remember, it's a $500 a month differential or six grand. Right. So it's six grand a year. It may be worth it to do that, Casey, because I mean, this is a terrible thing that I like, not only is this my personality, but as a certified financial planner, the job is to look at where does the risk lie. And unless, I don't know, is he like, I'm out of here, I need to retire? I mean, obviously the answer is if he delayed retirement, you could save more money and build up the nest egg a little bit and then the pension question might be solved. But how does he feel about that? Is he like, no way? Or like, what's his mood?

[Casey]

He's tired of being the boss. So yes, he's. He's done.

[Jill Schlesinger]

He's done. Okay, let me ask you another question. If he's tired of being the boss, would he be interested in being an employee? Not so much part time, but like, would he get another job? I mean, then you're just like, you're then in the same, you probably like in the same problem of like, I have to actually do this job, but not going to get compensated as much. So I mean. Okay, so here's what I'm going to tell you. I think you're probably okay. I Would like you to find out about insurance. Hey, Mark, do me a favor, just for S's and giggles. We don't curse on our show. What would a 10 year term life insurance policy be for a 61 year old guy? Guy. He's in good health, right?

[Casey]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, so do a 62 year old guy and get me. Not a lot. Like a half a million dollars. What would that cost on an annual basis? I'll come back in a few. All right. Mark will be back in a few. Do you guys have your estate documents?

[Casey]

I have them ready, but they're not signed yet.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Why not?

[Casey]

No excuses.

[Jill Schlesinger]

There was a moment where I thought you were going to try to blow something by me. Like I just throw some heat right by me and I'd be like, oh, okay. I mean, it's a complicated estate because of eight children and 23 grandchildren and one great grandchild.

[Casey]

Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Which means for everyone listening, when you have a complicated second marriage, it is incumbent upon you to actually get this done. I just, you know, it's going to make everyone happy. How long have you guys been together?

[Casey]

11 years. We've known each other longer, but together.

[Jill Schlesinger]

11. Okay, so this is like. It's a long term relationship. No one has hurt feelings anymore. We're moving on. Right. Let's get this down on paper. Truly. I mean also, because look. Yeah, and. And do his parents have any money?

[Casey]

Some.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And what about your parents? Are they alive?

[Casey]

No, they passed away a couple years ago. That's actually. Who? This house. They lived in this house before my in laws.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, I see.

[Casey]

But no, they, they, they'll be. They do. They have some there. There will be inheritance.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Do you think. Should I factor that in? In other words, the house was. Is yours. Right. But is there going to be a hundred, a couple hundred thousand dollars that we can factor into this equation or not?

[Casey]

Probably between the siblings. Split between them. And they do have a home that I think that we will inherit. The home. Their home.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It is complicated. It is complicated.

[Casey]

That's my biggest thing is I'm just nervous in the short term. It's not the long term. We're fine that way. I know that. Yeah, you know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Exactly.

[Casey]

We've met with our financial people and our Percy and we're going to meet with the accountant to make sure that everything's in order. It's just. That's just the short term.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, that's. That's what I want to know. Okay. Mark, do you have a number for me for insurance or not? You're. You're north of 300amonth. Yeah, but wait a second. What's the actual dollar? This 360, is it level? Yeah. For. This is $250,000 of coverage. Okay, but it's 250,000. For how long? Just like 10 years. Okay, 10 year. So let's just. Can I just put this. This is why I want to have the conversation. So the haircut in the pension is six grand a year. The insurance is $4,200 a year. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, these are just the averages. So his might be. Who knows what his will be. I think that you. I want to. I want to look at this. I want to at least look at it because it might be that you say to him, honey, I need you to make the money to. For five years. I want you to make enough money to put money in a Roth IRA and to cover the insurance premium, because in five years you might feel a lot better. Casey. Yes. Let's find out if you can buy insurance on his life. And then do you have somebody like, I would love for you to just go and see. What would it cost you to get 250 grand of life insurance for 10 years on your husband's life? That's it. Okay. And if it's like 350 bucks a month, the comp is, well, how much am I paying to keep my pension? What we often will call. This is. This is like, actually, like, it's a little bit of like a hedge against your pension bet. That's right.

[Casey]

Yep.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So let's find that out. Let's find out what the differential is. And if it's too much, you might be like, I'm rolling the dice. I don't care. We'll be fine. And it's probably going to be fine. I'm just making sure that it is the most efficient way to. To give you some comfort in the process. Yeah, makes sense.

[Casey]

Makes sense.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right. All right. That's it. That's what I got. Anything else for us?

[Casey]

No, no, I think I. That that actually helps makes me feel a little bit better.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, good. Excellent. We want to make you feel better. Give us a holler when you get that information because I would love to know what it is so interesting to me. Hey, gang, if you're listening to this, you got to understand that these are the. The kind of the weird questions that you should be asking yourselves. Like, hey, what do I give up when I get a pension benefit that is just based on my life? And what's the way to ensure against that loss. And if you can't figure out the questions to ask, we're here for you. Go to our website, jillonmoney.com, click the contact Us button, write us a note, and of course, let us know if you'd be willing to come on the air while you're on the website. Don't forget to sign up for the free weekly newsletter. You can subscribe to us on the Odysee app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Do me a favor, do something nice for someone else today. Change your work. Change your wealth. Change your life. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Got something on your mind you need to talk about? Forget texting.

[Casey]

Just call up a friend so you.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Can hear a voice.

[Casey]

It might be old school, but it helps.

[Jill Schlesinger]

This healthy suggestion is brought to you by Regents Blue Cross Blue Shield of Oregon. Together we help hey friends, I'm Sharon McMahon, host of here's Where It Gets Interesting. Each week I speak with authors, experts and thought leaders on everything from American history and democracy to how to be a better person on the Internet. And don't miss my extremely popular Docu series, which educate you on things you never learned in history class. Follow and listen to. Here's where it gets interesting on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.