Retirement and Pension Options

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Retirement and Pension Options" on Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

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Episode Overview

In the May 9, 2025 episode of Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger, host Jill Schlesinger delves into the intricate world of retirement planning and pension options. The episode features a detailed discussion with a listener named John from Buffalo, who seeks guidance on optimizing his retirement strategy, particularly concerning his pension benefits and life insurance considerations. Co-host Mark also contributes valuable insights, enhancing the conversation with professional financial expertise.

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Introduction to Retirement Planning

Jill Schlesinger opens the episode by emphasizing the complexity of financial journeys, especially as individuals approach retirement. She underscores the importance of understanding various retirement paths and the necessity of personalized financial advice. Jill invites listeners to engage with the show by sharing their financial scenarios and questions, fostering an interactive and supportive community.

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Listener Call-In: John’s Retirement Situation

Timestamp: 03:47

John’s Background and Current Financial Status

John, a 53-year-old listener from Buffalo, contacts the show to assess his readiness for retirement in the next few years. He shares that he and his wife, who is 38, are raising two young children. They maintain a comfortable lifestyle with a combined income of $210,000 annually ($140,000 from John and $70,000 from his wife). John mentions significant savings through deferred compensation and other investment accounts:

• Deferred Compensation: John has approximately $900,000, while his wife has about $50,000.
• Brokerage Account: $375,000 managed by a trusted friend who is a Certified Financial Planner (CFP).
• IRA: John holds $45,000 in a traditional IRA.
• Real Estate: Their primary residence is valued at $657,000 with an outstanding mortgage of $330,000 at a favorable interest rate.
• Cash Savings: $40,000 in liquid assets.
• 529 Accounts: $20,000 total, with ongoing contributions for their children's education.

Retirement Plans and Pension Details

John plans to retire at the end of his current contract year in 2028, anticipating an annual pension of approximately $100,000. His wife, a teacher, is eligible for her pension at age 55, expected to be around $75,000 annually. John highlights a significant age gap of 15 years between him and his wife, raising considerations for joint and survivor pension benefits.

Key Financial Questions Raised

1. Joint vs. Survivor Pension Benefits: Should John opt for a joint and survivor pension benefit, which would reduce his annual pension to $87,000 to ensure his wife receives a portion after his passing?
2. Life Insurance Considerations: Alternatively, should John maintain the full $100,000 pension and purchase a life insurance policy to provide for his wife in the event of his death?

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Discussion on Joint and Survivor Benefits vs. Life Insurance

Timestamp: 11:10 – 19:57

Jill and Mark engage in a comprehensive discussion to evaluate John's options:

• Joint and Survivor Pension Benefits: Mark advocates for choosing the joint and survivor option, arguing that even with the reduced pension of $87,000, it sufficiently covers the family's expenses. He highlights the high cost and complexity of purchasing a permanent life insurance policy at John's age, noting that insurance premiums are significantly higher for individuals in their 50s.

  Mark: "That's a no brainer. I would take the 100%. Even with the reduction, it still covers their monthly needs as things stand today."

• Life Insurance Option: While acknowledging the potential benefit of a life insurance policy, Mark points out the impracticality due to high costs and suggests that the pension option already provides adequate financial security.

• Recommendations:

  • Maximize Pension Benefits: Opting for the joint and survivor benefit ensures continuous income for John's wife without the need for expensive insurance.
  • Enhance 529 Contributions: Jill suggests reallocating some of John's deferred compensation towards bolstering their children's 529 college savings accounts, leveraging tax-efficient growth.
  • Estate Planning: Emphasizes the importance of updating estate documents, such as setting up joint accounts or transfer-on-death arrangements to streamline asset transfer and avoid unnecessary complications.

Notable Insights from the Discussion

• Lifecycle of Pension Benefits: Understanding the long-term implications of pension choices is crucial, especially when there is a significant age difference between spouses.

  Jill: "Most of the money is going to pass by contract, meaning retirement account goes to her by contract. If you die, the brokerage account—make that a joint account right away or a transfer on death account."

• Tax Efficiency and Savings Allocation: Redirecting funds from pre-tax savings to tax-advantaged accounts like 529s can optimize financial outcomes for future educational expenses.

• Estate Planning Simplicity: Jill advises that complex estate tools like trusts may not be necessary if assets are appropriately titled and beneficiaries are designated correctly.

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Expert Advice & Conclusions

Timestamp: 19:57 – End

Jill wraps up the conversation by reiterating the importance of personalized financial planning. She encourages John to consult his CFP to validate the discussed strategies and ensure that all financial decisions align with his long-term goals. The episode underscores the value of collaborative financial planning, especially in scenarios involving significant age differences between spouses and the associated retirement benefits.

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Key Takeaways

1. Joint and Survivor Pension Options: For couples with a significant age gap, opting for survivor benefits can provide financial stability without the need for additional life insurance.
2. Strategic Savings Allocation: Redirecting funds to tax-advantaged accounts like 529s can effectively prepare for children's education while optimizing tax liabilities.
3. Simplified Estate Planning: Properly titling accounts and designating beneficiaries can eliminate the need for more complex estate planning tools.
4. Professional Financial Advice: Engaging with a CFP can provide tailored strategies that align with individual financial circumstances and goals.

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Notable Quotes

• Jill Schlesinger (00:00): "Insurance is one of those things that you pay for and you hope you never need."
• John (03:47): "I'm thinking about retiring in the next few years and I'm trying to get everything in order."
• Mark (11:21): "I think it's worth looking at it, but I don't think it's going to work. Because you, my friend, we are in our 50s and you know what happens when you get in your 50s? Insurance is freaking expensive."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Jill on Money provides a nuanced exploration of retirement planning, highlighting the critical choices individuals face regarding pension benefits and life insurance. Through John's real-world scenario, listeners gain actionable insights into optimizing their retirement strategies, ensuring financial security, and making informed decisions that cater to their unique family dynamics and financial landscapes.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[John]

That's right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I am always right. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss, online US equity trades and ETFs and retail fidelity account Sell order assessment fee.

[John]

Not included, some account types and securities.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Excluded details of fidelity.com commissions Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It is Friday, May 9th and we are here trying to help you better navigate your financial journey. A lot of paths in front of you gang. Lot of things you can do and and no one path is the right one. If you are wondering what your options are and I think that that's really the key here that we want to help you identify what is available to you and then you can figure out which one seems the best. And again, no one piece of advice is the right piece of advice for everyone. So if you would like to run your scenario or your concerns by us, go to our website jillonmoney.com click the contact Us button and if you'd like to join us on the air live, check the box. Mark will do everything else while you're on the website. Sign up for the free weekly newsletter and please hurry up and subscribe to our service Jill on Money Live because our next live webinar is Coming up just in a few weeks, about a month. Thursday, June 5, Mike Quincy, he is the car expert at Consumer Reports and he will be joining us at 07:00 Eastern Time to walk us through what the heck is going on, going on in the auto market right now. Should you buy that car off lease? Should you hurry up and buy before prices go up substantially? What are the best places to find any bargains? Are there any bargains? What should you do? You should make sure you plunk down that 45 bucks for the next 12 months so you can join us live for the Mike Quincy webinar. You'll get three more after that. You'll get all of our back catalog. You'll get bonus audio and video content. Again, 45 bucks, Jill on Money Live. And from there we will take you to the next webinar. Who knows what it'll be. We just try to kind of go off over the kind of questions in the news cycle and what's going on to help you out. Okay. Today we are talking to John who joins us from Buffalo. Hello John. What can we do for you?

[John]

Well, I'm thinking about retiring in the next few years and I'm trying to get everything in order. I wanted to make sure that I was in a good spot and I had a bunch of different numbers to crunch here. So I figured I'd give you guys a call and see if you can help me out.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That sounds like a deal. So first of all, John, how old are you?

[John]

I am 53.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You're so young. What are you going to do for the rest of your life?

[John]

Well, right now I have a five year old and a four year old. So I plan on getting a minivan and going back and forth the sports for the next 20 years.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh my gosh. Okay, so you're in, you're an a, I don't want to say old father, but you're a late stage father and so you. Are you still married?

[John]

Yes, my wife is actually 38 so. Oh, look at you.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You must have a lot of money or gorgeous or both.

[John]

We got, we got a bit, we got a big gap between us. So that is another financial wrench in there that we have to look into.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So John, when we talk about your retirement, you said in the next few years. So like at what age are you.

[John]

Thinking I can go anywhere in my position? We have contracts that go out three, four years and so my next contract is due up at the end of 2028. And then if that contract we get a new contract, it could be three years after that.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So I can go ideally at the end of 28.

[John]

28, 20. I would like to have a contract in place at the end of 28. So I can either decide on the end of 28 or possibly $30,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much do you earn right now?

[John]

Right now I earn around $140,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And does your wife work or is she busy with that four and five year old?

[John]

Oh, no, she works and she makes about $70,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is your job, do you have any pension benefit?

[John]

I do.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Tell me about that.

[John]

We have a good setup where I work. My pension should be at the end of 28. Should be around $100,000 a year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Whoa. All right. And your wife, let's say it's the end of 20. Let's just kind of use 28 as the baseline. Let's say you get to the end of 20, 28 and is your wife and you're going to get your 100 grand a year, will your wife continue to work?

[John]

She will. She is also in a pensionable job, but she is not nearly as close as I am.

[Jill Schlesinger]

No, because you know why you robbed the cradle? What is her pension? Is she a teacher, a nurse or something like that? Or is she in an industry?

[John]

Teacher.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so if she, what's the earliest she could get her teacher's pension at her age? 55.

[John]

Correct.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, do you know what that number would be at her age? 55?

[John]

I'm guessing she would probably be around 75 at that point.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, got it. Okay. And so when you look at your current income, your 140,000, her 70, do you guys live okay? You feel comfortable? Like, how's the cash flow week to.

[John]

Week, month to month, Everything is good because I take out a lot for deferred comp. My wife takes out a little for deferred comp. The rest of it, we live pretty comfortably and we still are able to do, you know, the things, you know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You want to do.

[John]

Small trips for the kids and nice house and decent cars.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. If you were to guess what your real monthly expenses are, do you know that number?

[John]

I would say comfortably, It'd be about 5,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[John]

For expenses.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And when you. So if you were to retire at the end of 28, what happens healthcare wise for you? Will you have healthcare coverage or would you get it through your wife's job?

[John]

Currently, with my current contract at the end of 28, if I left before then, my family would have lifetime healthcare.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, my God, that's amazing. Fantastic. Okay, so how about the money you guys have saved. Tell us what you guys have. You said you're putting a lot away for deferred comp. So what do you have in deferred comp?

[John]

As of yesterday, I have about 900 in deferred computer.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What about her?

[John]

She does not have as much. She probably has 50k in deferred count.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Do you have any? And, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to ask you. That money, is that all traditional? Not Roth? Is it mostly traditional?

[John]

It's mostly traditional. I have about just. I have another account, a separate account that has about 375 in it, and that is stocks and, you know, mutual funds and things like that. And I have only about $45,000 in an IRA.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, so the 375, that's just a plain old brokerage account?

[John]

The 375? Yes, it is a brokerage account that I have through a friend of mine.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What do you mean a friend of yours? A financial advisor or some guy who's like, oh, he's a broker, and he threw it in an account for me.

[John]

Certified financial planner. Best man in my wedding since kindergarten.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We're not going to be able to fire him.

[John]

We. We will not be firing them.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I understand. Okay, so it sounds like, you know, that you're in okay shape. I mean, so let's go. Keep working through this. Any other assets? You said the 40 grand is, you know, IRA, 375 in a brokerage, 950 for your combined retirement accounts. Anything else that's floating around out there? In terms of an asset, I have.

[John]

A house that will probably be. I have about 20 years left on my mortgage, but the house is almost doubled in value.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much?

[John]

About $657,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And how much remains on the outstanding balance of the mortgage?

[John]

About $330,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And what's the interest rate?

[John]

$2,800,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's beautiful. Any rental property, anything like that?

[John]

No. I do have a sick buyback program through my work that I will be able to sell upon retirement, sell my sick days back.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is that worth?

[John]

It'll be worth about $140,000. You get 50% the first year, $25,000 the second year, $25,000 the third year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow. Holy moly. So 70, 35. 35 is what we're looking at.

[John]

Ballpark.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. Yep. That's incredible. How about money in the bank?

[John]

I just have about. In that other account, I have about 40 in cash.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Any accounts for the kids yet? I was about to say retirement, 529 accounts or any accounts for education.

[John]

I have about 20 in that for the kids and I add about $5,000 a year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

$20,000 each or total?

[John]

No total.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So John, what's the question here? You know, you got plenty of money, you can do whatever you want.

[John]

Well, with the age gap, my retirement offers to carry on over to my wife on me passing a giant and survivor.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What's, what's the amount of the, what's the reduction from that hundred grand a year that you would get if you wanted to have her participate in your pension for the rest of her life?

[John]

For 100% it would be about $13,000 a year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So that's $87,000. Okay, Mark, I just got to bring you on. Mark loves these questions about joint and survivor benefits. Mark, John's wife is 15 years younger and so he's not in Belichick territory right now. He's not running that 50 year age difference. 15, 1 5. Okay. If John take haircut on the pension. If you get joint and 100%, $87,000 a year instead of 100 grand a year. Well, for me it's a no brainer. I would take the 100%. Even with the reduction, it still covers their monthly nut as things stand today. But I know John's also thinking about keeping it the way it is and then taking out a life insurance policy. Well, okay. How's your health, John?

[John]

My health currently is fine. My family history is not the greatest. So that's why I always. And in my line of work, I tend to be a pessimist sometimes. So I plan for the worst and hope for the best.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I understand. What kind of insurance do you have in place already?

[John]

Right now that is the main problem. I have just a $75,000 policy through work. Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And does that go away at the end of 28?

[John]

I believe so.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Here's what John's talking about. Everybody listen up. You get this big pension, right? And John's saying, hey, wait a second. What if I took my 100 grand a year fully for yourself and then just buy a life insurance policy that would be for the remainder of my life. A whole life or a universal life policy. You would buy it, you'd pay for that? Would you pay $13,000, let's just say or less for that policy in order to cover the benefit loss. Right. So that's kind of what we're talking about. Instead of getting taking that haircut to the monthly pension, I'll pay for a big fat insurance policy and Then if I die, there's all the money she needs. I'm not sure it's going to work. And I'm going to tell you why. Because you, my friend, we, you and I, I'm going to say that we are compatriots, we are in our 50s and you know what happens when you get in your 50s? You insurance is freaking expensive. Really.

[John]

Correct.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So I, I don't, I would have your CFP run the numbers, but my guess is that you're probably going to be better off choosing the joint and 100% survivor benefit, not worrying about life insurance because that will cost you money for sure. You know, it's going to be real money and then you have, she's taken care of. Like if you were to pass away, she gets that 87 grand for the rest of her life and then she's got her own income. You probably are not going to have to touch your retirement accounts. You're not going to have to touch that brokerage account. Like I think it's pretty smooth sailing here, I really do. And she's got an affordable house so I'm leaning towards again run the numbers with the cfp. But I'm guessing your CFP is going to look at this and be like, eh, the insurance might cost too much and it's kind of convoluted and why not just have the cash flow do the planning and be done with it. And you know, listen, the other thing this allows her to do is that if you were to pass away more like in 10 years instead of, you know, hopefully 20 or 30 years, that she would have the income that she could maybe even say to her school system, I need to like work a little bit less or I need to do this or I need to that. Does she have a little bit of flexibility knowing she has her consistent income and she can make some different choices and have the money that she inherits from you? I'm just guessing again, I don't have the numbers in front of me because I don't look at quotes for whole life or universal life very often. So I think it's worth looking at it, but I don't. It's sort of called pension maximization in like the world of financial planning. I'm just thinking that it might not be as good a deal. Now that said, there's only one thing that sticks out to me beyond the insurance pension question and that is I don't think you're putting enough money into your kids529 accounts. How about that? I agree okay. So how much are you contributing to your retirement account right now?

[John]

I would say probably about 15,000. I'm at about 15,000 a year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And your wife's putting in whatever she's putting in. You said, like, sort of more minimal. Do you put money actively inside of the stock and mutual fund account or not?

[John]

No, What I usually do is there's, you know, dividends and stuff that come off the account, and at the end of the year, I have to. I get, you know, a surplus, and I usually just tell him, throw all that into the kids fund.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I got you. I got it.

[John]

That's usually what I do because I have to take a certain amount. They. They make you take it?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, sure. Okay. It's not coming out of your cash flow. It's just. It's nice that it's there. Well, I'm wondering. Let's presume again, we're looking at 20, 28. Everything's good, fine, and dandy. Let's just say everything's great. I guess the question is, for the next few years, would it make sense for you to pull back on that, on the amount of money you're putting into your. I think your retirement numbers are great. You're fine. So I'm wondering if maybe. Maybe you pull back and you say, I'm not going to put 15 grand a year in. Do you have a match in your plan?

[John]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So maybe Instead of saying 15 grand a year, what I might do is say, like, let me put like five grand a year, six. I don't know, five to ten grand a year, maybe just five, and take that extra ten, pay the tax on it, and use that money along with your dividend and interest from your brokerage account and put more money from those two funnels into your Kids529 accounts. One of the things that you should talk to your CFP about is like, hey, you know what? Kids are so young, and I really want to get some more money into their 529s. Maybe just say, out of the 375, can you free up some money? Not like everything, but let's say you sold $50,000 of stuff just to clean it up a little bit, Right? Say, you know, we want to, like, clean it up, have fewer holdings, take the 50 grand, pay the tax on it, then put 19, $20,000 each into the kids accounts in those 529 accounts. And then you're kind of supercharging them. You just want them to make. Get some more money in that so that Matt can see the same kind of growth that your stock and mutual fund portfolio sees. Right. We just want to get some money in there, get the product clock going. And you know, if you could do that this year, maybe do it again next year, you know, and then I think you're really in a place where you are able to supercharge those 529 accounts. You don't have to like sell everything. It's just like, it's a nice way to clean it up also. What do you think of that?

[John]

I actually like that idea a lot. I'm also a little bit concerned that pretty much everything I have in savings is pre tax. You know, my deferred comp is, you know, 100% pre tax. Everything that would come out of my sick incentive is pre tax. Everything that I sell from the other account would be taxable.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So yeah, I also, that's why I think that getting some money into those 529s which are such tax efficient vehicles. Right. As long as one of the kids goes to college, that's all you need. You don't even need both of them. And then that's why I'm saying pull back on the amount you're putting into the deferred comp right now. It's okay. Yeah, honestly, five grand a year for next few years is fine. Use that money. Get the, get the account, the brokerage account cleaned up, supercharge your 529 and let's move on. And then you can look ahead. If 2028, 28 comes and you get a contract and you're like, you know what, Jill, I love this. I'm going to keep doing it, keep doing it. Nothing bad's going to happen. It's just more time for you to work and put more money into the kids college stuff. But your retirement, completely fine. So two things to talk about with CFP buddy. One is, hey, if I buy a permanent life insurance policy, is that really a smart decision versus just taking the joint and 100% survivor? Just have them run the numbers, like find out, figure out how much insurance you would need to purchase, what the cost would be annually and see if it makes sense. And number two, clean up the brokerage account, sell some stuff, harvest some stocks, just like make it a more streamlined situation. Oh, last but not least, because you are older than your wife, do you have your estate documents done?

[John]

I do not. I've been looking into setting up a trust. Just. Well, the, the pessimist in me wants to make sure that everything is in line for her in case you don't.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Need a trust for that. I mean, you can, you could, you could do it. But just think about this. I want you to think about this for me, with me for a second. Most of the money is going to pass by contract, meaning retirement account goes to her by contract. If you die, the brokerage account, is it, is it joint or is it held in your name only?

[John]

It's in my name.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Make that a joint account right away or make it a transfer on death account if you'd like. But that has to go to her by contract. You just want that done. It cleans up the estate issue. But do me a favor, go see an estate attorney. I don't think you need a trust, I really don't. But I think that it would be very smart for you guys to be in this together, having conversations, making sure things are happening the way you want.

[John]

Perfect.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, that's it, you're done. John from Buffalo, thank you for joining us. If you have a big age difference with you and a spouse, first of all, come on the show, I get to tease you mercilessly. I mean, it's just fabulous for me. I'm just kidding. But listen, your circumstances are somewhat different and as John articulated, you know, he's got a wife who's going to probably outlast him and we want to make sure that the plans incorporate that very fact. And by the way, even if you're about the same age, women have longer life expectancies than men. And I want to 100% get everyone on board with this idea that even if you're the one handling the money, you must include your non interested spouse. So if he or she is like, I don't want to deal. Get them on board. We need the couple to come together because I just came from a really great conference out in California. I was talking, talking to some very highfalutin financial advisors and one of the things they keep seeing still to this day is that a lot of women who either go through a big transition like a divorce or a death of a spouse, they are really not prepared for managing their situation on their own. So that's something you can really solve by having conversations, talking to a certified financial planner like John has when he's lucky that if you've got a question, come to us, go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, let us know if you'd be willing to come on the air by checking the box. Check out all of our free content that lives on the website in fact, just bookmark the website. It is really cool. Mark refreshes it all the time. You can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen. Hey, it's Friday. So little business. Our music is composed by Joel Goodman. Mark Talersio is our executive producer, king of all things web and a darn good human being. We are distributed by Odyssey. Please try to do something nice for someone else today. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you on Monday. When you're with Amex Business Platinum, going the extra mile for your business pays off. With five times membership rewards, points on flights and prepaid hotels booked through amextravel.com, you can earn more points to help grow your business. And with access to more than 1400 lounges globally through the American Express Global Lounge Collection, including the Centurion Lounge. Can I get you a refill? You can stay fresh wherever your business travel takes you. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] AmExBusiness buying a home in California can certainly feel intimidating. We hear from listeners all the time throughout the state, and they want to know, where can they even start? Many of them find that turning to a Realtor changed everything. Realtors can help buyers understand what they can afford. They can explain all of the steps that are involved in purchasing a home, and they can walk you through every detail, from making an offer to closing the deal. Working with a Realtor can help you feel less alone or unsure about the process and that peace of mind that is the power of having a Realtor buy your side. Whether you're ready to move or just starting to dream, don't go it alone. Don't let what you don't know stop you from starting your next chapter. Find your [e-mail] that's championsofhome.com.