Romance Scams With Adam Levin

Summary

Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Episode: Romance Scams With Adam Levin

Release Date: February 14, 2025

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Introduction

In the Valentine's Day episode of "Jill on Money," host Jill Schlesinger, CFP®, delves into the increasingly sophisticated world of romance scams with expert insights from guest Adam Levin. Known for his work as the founder of CyberScout, author of "Swiped," and co-host of the podcast "What the Hack," Levin brings a wealth of knowledge on how these scams have evolved and the measures individuals can take to protect themselves.

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Understanding Romance Scams

[04:30] Adam Levin: "Happy Valentine's Day, everyone."

Levin opens the discussion by highlighting the alarming rise in romance-related fraud. Historically, romance scams involved swift manipulations where scammers would establish emotional connections rapidly and exploit victims for financial gain. However, the landscape has dramatically shifted with the integration of cryptocurrency, leading to more prolonged and complex schemes.

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Evolution of Romance Scams

Traditional Romance Scams: [06:45] Ed Slott: "They develop an online relationship with you, moving very fast..."

Traditionally, romance scammers employed tactics known as the "fast kill" method. Victims would encounter seemingly perfect profiles on dating platforms, engage in intense romantic exchanges, and quickly be coerced into financial transactions under the guise of personal crises or urgent needs.

Modern Adaptations: [07:30] Ed Slott: "Now they've combined it with cryptocurrency scams, and that's where it's a much longer con."

The modern twist involves "pig butchering" scams, where perpetrators build trust over extended periods before introducing complex financial products like cryptocurrency investments. This method not only deepens the emotional manipulation but also significantly increases the financial loss potential.

Notable Quote: [24:56] Ed Slott: "The secret to these scams is that we all have day jobs... but to them, we are their day job."

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Profiles of Victims

Contrary to common misconceptions, victims of romance scams come from diverse backgrounds and demographics. While elderly individuals and those experiencing loneliness are often targeted, Ed Slott emphasizes that "it could be almost anybody."

[11:09] Ed Slott: "One case recently, a woman lost over a million dollars. She was a very successful professional..."

Victims may include successful professionals, individuals recovering from personal trauma, or anyone susceptible to prolonged emotional manipulation. The scams exploit human emotions, making it difficult for victims to recognize the deceit until significant financial damage has been done.

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Operational Tactics of Scammers

Structured Organizations: [13:32] Ed Slott: "They are very good at what they do. The sad part is oftentimes it involves people who have been human trafficked."

Scammers often operate within organized networks, sometimes involving victims themselves through coercion or trafficking. These groups meticulously plan their approach, utilizing stolen identities and multiple online profiles to maximize their reach and effectiveness.

Pig Butchering Explained: [23:25] Ed Slott: "Pig butchering is like before the slaughter. They fatten the pig up before they take your money."

This term describes the prolonged period of trust-building and financial manipulation before extracting substantial funds from the victim. Scammers present seemingly legitimate investment opportunities, occasionally providing fake returns to lure victims into deeper financial involvement.

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Protective Measures and Best Practices

Identifying Red Flags: [20:27] Ed Slott: "If they can help you make money, or they need you to give them money, all of those should set off alarms."

Levin and Slott outline critical red flags, such as:

• Excessive flattery and rapid relationship intensification.
• Urgent requests for financial assistance under vague or fabricated circumstances.
• Sudden shifts from legitimate communication channels to private or encrypted platforms.
• Introduction of investment opportunities, especially in volatile markets like cryptocurrency.

Best Practices: [19:24] Ed Slott: "If you have a bad feeling, delete them immediately. And anytime you get a communication from them, block them."

Key strategies to avoid falling prey include:

• Maintaining skepticism about unsolicited romantic advances, especially online.
• Verifying the identity of new acquaintances through independent channels.
• Avoiding the sharing of personal or financial information with individuals met online.
• Consulting trusted friends or family members when suspicious about a relationship's authenticity.

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Handling Suspected Scams

When individuals suspect they have fallen victim to a romance scam, Ed Slott advises immediate cessation of all financial interactions and contacting authorities. However, he notes the challenges in recovering lost funds, especially when scams originate from international networks beyond local jurisdiction.

[22:23] Ed Slott: "You're probably not getting your money back. Every so often, there's a case where they manage to trace the person."

Despite the low recovery rates, reporting scams is crucial for law enforcement agencies to track and possibly dismantle larger operations.

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Legal and Recovery Challenges

[23:21] Mark Tularcio: "Can you define pig butcher?"

The conversation touches upon the legal complexities involved in prosecuting romance scammers, particularly those operating from countries with limited extradition agreements. Levin highlights that while there have been successes in specific cases, widespread legal recourse remains limited, emphasizing the importance of prevention and awareness.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, both Levin and Slott reiterate the significance of vigilance and education in combating romance scams. They encourage listeners to share information and support each other in recognizing and avoiding these sophisticated frauds.

[26:18] Ed Slott: "We're in this together, gang. We really are."

Jill Schlesinger closes the episode with heartfelt Valentine's Day wishes, reinforcing the message of protecting one's heart and finances alike.

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Key Takeaways

• Romance scams have evolved from quick financial cons to prolonged, emotionally-driven schemes integrated with cryptocurrency frauds.
• Victims can be anyone, regardless of age, gender, or socioeconomic status.
• Scammers often operate within organized networks, employing advanced tactics to build trust and manipulate emotions.
• Prevention relies heavily on awareness, skepticism of unsolicited romantic advances, and adherence to best practices in online interactions.
• Recovery of lost funds is challenging, necessitating a focus on prevention and reporting to aid law enforcement efforts.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ed Slott [05:02]: "That understates it for a couple of reasons..."
• Ed Slott [07:30]: "Now they've combined it with cryptocurrency scams, and that's where it's a much longer con."
• Ed Slott [23:25]: "Pig butchering is like before the slaughter. They fatten the pig up before they take your money."
• Ed Slott [24:56]: "The secret to these scams is that we all have day jobs... but to them, we are their day job."

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Resources Mentioned

• Adam Levin's Book: Swiped
• Podcast: What the Hack
• Organization: Advocating Against Romance Scammers
• Webinar: Live Webinar on March 6th at 7 Eastern Time with Ed Slott

For more information on protecting yourself from romance scams, listeners are encouraged to visit Adam Levin’s website at adamlevin.com and explore the upcoming webinars and resources offered by "Jill on Money."

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Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Mark Tularcio]

Hey gang, I don't know about you guys, but it has been very chaotic for me in the early going here of 2025 and when life is chaotic I know that I try to seek those services and not to mention those people who bring some calm to my life. So if you are in charge of order fulfillment for an e commerce business, you may want to check out shipstation, which is a way that you can count on your day to day remaining calm. You can save hours and money every month by shipping from all your stores with one login, automating repetitive tasks and finding the best rates among all the global carriers, shipstation is the fastest, most affordable way to ship products to your customers. With discounts of up to 88% off UPS, DHL Express and USPS rates and up to 90% off FedEx rates. You can seamlessly integrate ShipStation with services and selling channels you already use and manage orders on one easy dashboard. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers switch to ShipStation today. Go to shipstation.com and use code Jill on Money to sign up for your free trial. That's shipstation.com code Jill Jill on Money welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It is Friday, February 14th. Happy Valentine's Day everyone. I just want to send a specific and direct Valentine's greeting to my executive producer Mark Tularcio, so just come on the air for one minute. Mark, I love you. Thank you for everything you do there.

[Adam Levin]

Oh Hello, Joe. Happy Valentine's Day.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Hello.

[Adam Levin]

Happy Valentine's Day.

[Mark Tularcio]

What are you doing for tonight? Nothing. Something tonight?

[Ed Slott]

No.

[Adam Levin]

What do you mean? Friday? No. We get each other some cards.

[Mark Tularcio]

Yeah.

[Adam Levin]

We're not going out to dinner. I'll cook dinner.

[Mark Tularcio]

Right. Exactly right.

[Adam Levin]

And then we'll be on the couch.

[Mark Tularcio]

Perfect. I love it. That is the true love right there. Mark. I'm so excited to bring on the air with us one of our favorite people who we've now known for quite some time, back to, I think, 2009, when I was still at CBS, when I was, you know, part of the Money Watch team and we had the radio show and we met our guest, Adam Levin, way back.

[Adam Levin]

Who was first, Adam or Ed Slott?

[Mark Tularcio]

Ah, geez. I think Adam came before Ed Slott.

[Adam Levin]

Yeah, probably. It's been so long, it's hard to keep track.

[Mark Tularcio]

They're right up there. We love both of them. And by the way, if you can't get yourself enough Ed Slott, he will be joining us for our live webinar on Thursday, March 6th at 7 Eastern Time. Ed Slott being the father of the the Roth conversion strategy. Basically, Ed is a cpa, IRA expert, Roth cheerleader. And if you want to join us for that, you've got to be a member of Jill on Money Live. Check out the website for that. But today we are talking to Adam Levin. He is the founder of cyberscout, the author of Swiped, and the co host of a great podcast called what the Hack. And basically, Adam is here to scare the living daylights out of all of us about romance scams on this Valentine's Day. Welcome back, Adam. You are a recidivist guest and we love you. So thanks for coming on today.

[Ed Slott]

Well, Jill, I'm so excited to be back and happy Valentine's Day and sending love to you and Mark.

[Mark Tularcio]

So can you just please tell us the state of the romance scam? I saw the last stat that I had for this was, I think, a 2022 stat from the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, $1.14 billion of fraud from romance scammers, 64,000Americans. And I presume you're going to tell me that understates it, right?

[Ed Slott]

That understates it for a couple of reasons. One, because it's now over 1.4 billion. And 1 of my good friends, Aaron west, who's very, very involved in, in both pig butchering scams, which we'll get to, and romance scams because now those two scam types seem to have merged that's when you take a romance scam and throw in a cryptocurrency scam. So the numbers are bigger. And part of the reason also is because we don't even know how big it really is, because so many people who become victims of romance scams or romance slash cryptocurrency scams are too embarrassed to talk about it.

[Mark Tularcio]

I understand that you feel like you've been made a fool of, right? So tell us some stories about this. What is. What's the traditional romance scam that's out there right now?

[Ed Slott]

Well, the old days, it was the fast kill. And that's when you'd meet someone online. They would be. You would see this incredible profile. It was like you felt like you were in the midst of a Hollywood romance. And the language would be almost Shakespearean, although the grammar wouldn't necessarily be terrific. And in a very short period of time, let's say you'd meet on a dating site. They would move you to an app like WhatsApp or Telegram or some encrypted app. They would get very close to you very quickly. And within a few days, it was either you were going to have their baby or they were going to have your baby. And then came the kill. They moved in and it was, I'd really love to see you. I've had so many problems in my life. Could you send me a plane ticket?

[Mark Tularcio]

They are developing an online relationship with you, right?

[Ed Slott]

Online relationship, moving very fast. Some of the key elements are flowery language. You never get to meet them. There's always some kind of crisis. They need you to resolve the crisis, and they come after you to help them, generally financially. Either wire the money, send them gift cards, or. Or find another way in order to get them some kind of currency, like give me your credit card number.

[Mark Tularcio]

God. Okay, that was the old way, right?

[Ed Slott]

That was the old day.

[Mark Tularcio]

Old fashioned. Old fashioned. Just like five years ago, kind of scam.

[Ed Slott]

Correct.

[Mark Tularcio]

What's happening now?

[Ed Slott]

Now they've combined it with cryptocurrency scams, and that's where it's a much longer con. And as they're conning you, they're love bombing you, but they're love bombing you over a longer period of time. And they built trust. The big thing is trust. They get your trust. They get into your heart, they get into your head. They communicate with you throughout the day, oftentimes deep into the night. Because the purpose is to get the target to be as tired and as emotional as humanly possible. And they. They crawl into your Psyche. They find out all the things that are meaningful to you. They then play off of that, telling you all the horrible things that are happening to them, whether they just lost their job, they found the perfect house of their dreams, and they. They. You know, they've talked about it so much, and they just need the down payment, and they need to know they have the loan and the bank just pulled the loan on them. And so you get that kind of. Or they've been in a car accident. But then when it moves into the cryptocurrency area, it's, hey, listen, I know you have a lot of problems with your finances. I realize that your college debts are killing you. And I found something that has been incredibly helpful to me. A lot of my friends do it, and this would be great for you. And so they wet your whistle. And this is where Jill on Money Financial moment happens, okay? And that's when they convince you to invest in cryptocurrency. Now, sometimes they'll get you to a legitimate site initially, and then they'll move you to another investment site, or you think you're going to a legitimate site, but you never get there. You send the money. They then use that money. They show you how you can make money. They'll send you screenshots. They get you all excited. Sometimes they'll send you back some of your profits, right? Over time, they then suck you in to give them more and more and more money. And then you'll say, okay, I'd like to take some money out for real now. I can pay my college debt. And they go, well, there's an authorization and authentication fee. And you go, what do you mean, an authentication fee? I've been on the site with you and myself. No, no. The site wants to know before any money is taken out that you're really you. So you have to send them, well, let's say $15,000 to authenticate yourself, okay? So the target does. And then they go, okay, you're authenticated. Okay, I'd like to take out my money. Well, wait, there's one other problem. You have to. You have to pay the taxes before you take your money. Well, since I have a million dollars in the account, just subtract the tax money. Just have them debit the tax money. No, no, no. You can't do that. You have to independently send in the tax money.

[Mark Tularcio]

Oh, God.

[Ed Slott]

And people oftentimes have gone along with that.

[Mark Tularcio]

Adam, can you just. Can I just. I'm sorry to interrupt, but, like, can you paint a picture of the person or the types of people that tend to fall for this, not fall for this, that get ensnared by it. Because I don't want to say fall for it, but in other words, I guess I'm thinking of like, the lonely woman who really. But it's not just that who can be made a victim of this kind of crime. In your, in your experience, you'd be surprised.

[Ed Slott]

It could be almost anybody. It could be somebody after they've suffered some kind of trauma in their life. Let's say their loved one just passed away. One case recently, a woman lost over a million dollars. And she. She was a very successful professional woman who ran a group of radiologists for a hospital in Connecticut. And she just fell in love with this guy and she fell for it. And I hate to use the word fall, but yeah, she did. It was just. And she admits it. And she's gone public about it. And more and more people go. Go public about it. Many years ago, I did a. A TV show. There were two women on the show. They were both private nurses. Each one was approached by a separate scammer, and each woman fell in love with the person, and they ended up giving him $60,000 each. So you can be almost anyone. And we had a fellow on our show, Dan Simons, who's a behavioral scientist who wrote a book called Nobody's fool, who's a co author of the book, talking about the fact that these folks are masters at playing on confirmation bias or anything else they can get where they can convince you they're on your side, they're ideologically on your side, emotionally on your side. Sometimes you will hear them, you don't necessarily see them, but there even have been some cons where people have gone out with somebody, they live with someone, and then they moved in and said they were doing a project up north that was going to be their forever house for the two of them.

[Mark Tularcio]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Slott]

And the woman gave them about $177,000. And they would get progress reports, they would get pictures even, except it was all a fraud. And in the end, once the money that could be gotten was gotten, the scammer disappeared, never to be heard from again.

[Mark Tularcio]

Adam, are these people working alone or as part of some, like, larger organization? I don't know what that organization would be. But, you know, what is our knowledge base of who these. These perpetrators are?

[Ed Slott]

Well, a lot of this comes out of South Africa, Nigeria, some from Eastern Europe, but really the locus of this is on the African continent. They're very good at what they do. The sad part is oftentimes it involves people who have been human trafficked.

[Mark Tularcio]

What?

[Ed Slott]

Yeah, they are chained to their desks, their lives are threatened, their family members are threatened. And so it, it is a crime against so many different people. Or for instance, I work with a group called Advocating Against Romance Scammers. And the head of. Head of that organization, his picture was stolen and used in between 2 and 300 separate profiles.

[Mark Tularcio]

Am I stunned? I really am.

[Ed Slott]

But there are, there are, there are groups. Think of them as confederation. Think of them almost as businesses. And either people who are trafficked are used or specific individuals are part of this group. Or sometimes it's just a family of three or four family members, brothers, cousins who work together, develop the scripts. And of course, now when you have scam almost by rent, you have organizations that will help you create the scams. They will sell it to you. Your job is to give them a piece of the action. They may even help you target specific individuals. Oftentimes it's just a blanket email or blanket DM that starts the whole thing. It can be by way of dating site, it can be way of, of a DM that comes out of nowhere that says something. The effect of is this Mary. You can. This isn't Mary. This is Bob. And. And they get you. And it is so insidious and heinous, this crime, that when they drain you of all the money that you have, in some cases, they turn you into a money mule. I know someone whose mother, after she ended up giving them 350,000, was turned into a money mule where other women were making cash available to them and this woman would pick it up and get it over to them.

[Mark Tularcio]

Now, I have to say that I'm reacting to a number of things. All the references you've made are to women. Any stories like this with men?

[Ed Slott]

Yes, we do.

[Mark Tularcio]

Tell me more.

[Ed Slott]

There's been a lot of men as well. Well, there was a. There were a mother daughter team operating out of Colorado, which was rare. We don't have too many domestic romance scammers. And they, they convinced people that they were soldiers deployed overseas and lonely and they needed to communicate and they communicated with men and women. But there, there are many. I mean, this goes all the way back to the concept of the Russian mail order bride where just tens of thousands of men were taken in. And so they tweak it. But men fall for it, women fall for it, and it's just insidious and horrible. And these people get better and better.

[Mark Tularcio]

And better at it, well, that's it. It's a much smoother. It's not like it's not the, oh, you know, please wire me money, I'm a Nigerian. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Now this is a much longer term confidence game that is being perpetrated. So Adam, can you help the audience who's listening, who's like, I would never fall for that.

[Adam Levin]

Happy Valentine's Day, everybody.

[Mark Tularcio]

Exactly.

[Ed Slott]

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how is it exactly?

[Mark Tularcio]

How about what we need to do to protect ourselves but also our family members who you think might fall prey to this? What are some best practices that you can outline?

[Ed Slott]

Well, first of all, when you, when you're dealing with older family members, that, that gets into pretty sticky territory. And there had many situations where people have found out from their, their parents or relatives that they're caught up in one of these things. And as much as the family members try the target can't seem to get themselves out from under it. We, we've seen situations where people become addicted to their scammer because the scammer spends so much time talking to them and, and worked so hard to get into their heads and into their hearts.

[Mark Tularcio]

That's wild.

[Ed Slott]

There was a case years ago of a woman who, who gave up over $2 million to scammers. And even when it was clear her family proved to her that was a scam and they stopped her from doing it, she said, I understand it was a scam, but in my heart I still love him.

[Mark Tularcio]

Oh my God. Is that Stockholm syndrome? To the nth degree. This is crazy.

[Ed Slott]

It is, it is. And many men the same, the same situation there, there, there are men in, in prison overseas because they thought that they were meeting their lover and as a result they were getting a large sum of money and then they were coming back to the US with a suitcase that had all the documents for whatever deal they were doing. They end up getting arrested at the airport and put away for 15 to 17 years because, oh my gosh, moving drugs. But they didn't realize that they were drug mules.

[Mark Tularcio]

So again, what is it that we should be communicating? Give us those like, clear steps. I know you got them in your back pocket, but what is it that we really need to say to like, what do I need to tell my 85 year old mother who's a little lonely, not that she really like would know how to get online and talk to anybody, but if she did, what would I tell her?

[Ed Slott]

Well, the first thing you say is, mom, you're 85 years old, you you somehow have fallen in with somebody who's 36 years old. Ask yourself a question. What's the logic behind this relationship? First of all, consider the way it starts. If you get a DM from somebody who clearly has no idea who you are, and you certainly have no idea who they are, and through a exchange of communication, all of a sudden this thing develops into something. The back of your mind you should be saying, what's wrong with this picture? If you meet someone on a dating site, but you can never meet them and they immediately move you off the dating site to some kind of encrypted app, you might want to say, why did they want to move me off so quickly? Why couldn't we just stay on the dating app unless we're really going to meet? And if you meet, make sure you meet in a public place.

[Mark Tularcio]

When you, when you, if you've crossed over or you have a bad feeling, what should you do? Like if you're like, oh, I've lost it here.

[Ed Slott]

Well, number one, if, if you have a bad feeling, this is after you've given them information. And let's say before, let's say before. If it's before, delete them immediately. And anytime you get a communication from them, block them. Just block them. And you know that. Now, they may come after you using another identity, another person, but it could well be the same person. If the language doesn't sound right, it's too romantic. If they say they're from one country, but the accent belies the country they claim they're from, which is not impossible. You can have European people living in, in South Africa. You can have people living in the United States that have accents. But the, the most important thing is the minute they start to tell you they can help you make money, or they need you to give them money, or they send you what appears to be a compromising picture from them and ask you to send a compromising picture from you, all of those different things should set up alarms. Now, you'll know when you go to financial institutions now, and you know better than anyone, they now make you sign a document where you indicate someone that they can communicate with if they, if they think there's a problem. But then again, we've seen situations where financial institutions have communicated with family members indicating something isn't right. But the family member can't talk the man or woman out of continuing a relationship with a non existent lover.

[Mark Tularcio]

The non existent lover. Now you've given 15, 20 grand, some amount of money or even hundreds, you realize it or Family member realizes it. What's your next course of action?

[Ed Slott]

Well, the next course of action is to make sure you never send them anything further. You can contact the authorities, but you're.

[Mark Tularcio]

Not getting your money back. Right?

[Ed Slott]

You're probably not getting your money back. Every so often, there's a case where they manage to figure out a way to trace the person. But if you're talking about a scam that goes into Nigeria or South Africa or. Or any. Any of the other African nations or Asian nations, it becomes much and more. More difficult to do it. Now, we've seen cases recently, but these were involving sextortion cases and teenagers, where a death has ensued. And the FBI, working with Interpol, working with Nigerian intelligence, they were able to locate the individuals and have them extradited to the United States. That is becoming a little bit more frequent. But generally, it doesn't happen with pig butchering or romance scams.

[Mark Tularcio]

Can you define pig butcher? Sorry. Hard for me to say that.

[Ed Slott]

Pig butchering.

[Mark Tularcio]

Butchering, please.

[Ed Slott]

Yes, yes. Pig butchering is like before the slaughter. They fatten the pig up. Oh, good. That is, before they take your money, they fatten you up to believe that you're making money, except you're not making money. Now, in one case, we know about the woman I mentioned who worked at the radiology department in the hospital. In her case, they sent her $100,000 check to begin investing. She didn't realize it was $100,000 stolen from another woman. So they have a variety of ways of getting you. A big thing in all of these relationships is trust. They start manipulating you with trust. They talk about trust. They talk about how important trust is. They get you to trust them. And in some cases, when they come up with the story where they desperately need help, if you say, you know, I would love to help you, but I. I just don't feel right about this, they'll turn it on you and make you feel like you're being a very bad person by not helping them.

[Mark Tularcio]

It's fascinating. I mean, it's terrible. And it's fascinating that it has really moved in a. It's evolved in such a way that gets to the core of every single scam, going back to the original Charles Ponzi, which is confidence. Yes, trust.

[Ed Slott]

Well, the secret to these scams is that we all have day jobs, right? We work, we raise families, we're getting an education, revolving philanthropic activities. But to them, we are their day job. And so it's unfair the way they. They're in a position of power. Because we have lives, and that's why it's incumbent upon us. You know, government isn't going to help you here. Really. The business community isn't going to help you here. Really. Oftentimes, you know, when people are wiring money to these scammers, they say, well, why didn't you stop me? And the answer is, because you're supposedly a knowledgeable human being and it's your money. Financial institutions are loathe to stop you from dealing with your own money. There was a case that we had not too long ago. The woman who walked into the bank to get money for something and the, and the person in the bank said, you know, if you send your money somewhere and you're not sure of where it's going, you're not going to get it back. This institution is not going to help you.

[Mark Tularcio]

This is so depressing. Happy Valentine's Day, Adam. Happy Valentine's Day. I also want to say that knowing you for as long as I do, you are a romantic man.

[Ed Slott]

I am.

[Mark Tularcio]

And so I will. Just before we leave, what are you doing for Valentine's Day with your beloved?

[Ed Slott]

Well, my beloved and I are actually doing two different things. She and my son are going skiing and I am.

[Mark Tularcio]

And you are.

[Ed Slott]

Right.

[Mark Tularcio]

And you're writing the check to send them there.

[Ed Slott]

Of course I am. And. But at least I know who they are and where they're going.

[Mark Tularcio]

Exactly.

[Ed Slott]

And I am going out to Palo Alto. One of my oldest friends that I went to college with is having a 75th birthday. So we're going to have a. A weekend long celebration in all the hotspots in Palo Alto.

[Mark Tularcio]

Oh, that's so fun.

[Ed Slott]

So we're gonna have an early Valentine's Day. We're gonna go to a nice romantic dinner, and we always do cards. Cards is a big thing with us. Even more than presents. Cards are, are where you really kind of lay out how you feel and.

[Mark Tularcio]

Yeah.

[Ed Slott]

And she writes the best cards ever.

[Mark Tularcio]

Oh, that's so nice. Well, I mean, listen, I know that this is not the most romantic of topics for us, but what I will say is there's no one better than Adam Levin to deliver this. And I just want to again say how much I appreciate you, Adam, if you would like, you want to hear about some of these stories. Great podcast. Adam is one of the co hosts of what the Hack. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. His book is called Swiped. His company Cyber Scout. If you want to like, just find out more about Adam. Adam Levin. L E v I n.com and you will see that this man has been committed actually to getting the word out on a lot of different consumer related issues. This just being the last one. Adam Levin, thank you so much for joining us. We so appreciate you.

[Ed Slott]

Well Jill, thank you so much for having me and have a happy, wonderful Valentine's Day and mark you as well.

[Mark Tularcio]

So everyone, Happy Valentine's Day. You can remember to subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Hey, how about you send this podcast to anybody you know who you think might be the kind of person who might actually be a victim of this kind of thing. Just let them listen to it. Send them Adam's website. Just try to spread the word. This is we're in this together gang. We really are. It is Friday so I would like to tell you that our music is composed by Joel Goodman. Mark Tularsio is our executive producer and king of all things web and we are distributed by Odyssey. And you can subscribe to us on Odyssey's app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Please try to do something nice for someone else today. Hey, some people don't have a significant other for Valentine's Day, but you can just reach out and say, happy Valentine's Day. I do that all the time. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.

[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Ed Slott]

Every week on the MOF podcast, we.

[Mark Tularcio]

Share stories that are funny, strange, heartbreaking and above all true.

[Ed Slott]

I myself have been married for 56 years, unfortunately to four different women. It turns out the people I was looking for all my life is what.

[Mark Tularcio]

You people would call nerds. Follow and listen to the moth on the Free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.