Should I Sell My DC Area Investment Properties?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Should I Sell My DC Area Investment Properties?"
Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
Release Date: March 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger, host Jill Schlesinger, CFP®, delves into the intricate decision-making process surrounding investment properties in the Washington, D.C. area. The episode, titled "Should I Sell My DC Area Investment Properties?", features a candid conversation with Fran, a retired federal government employee and real estate investor from Virginia. Together with co-host Mark Talercio, a seasoned executive producer and certified financial planner, they explore Fran's financial landscape, her real estate investments, and the potential impacts of market fluctuations on her holdings.

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Guest Background: Fran's Financial Profile [04:41 - 07:09]

Fran introduces herself as a 61-year-old retiree from the federal government. She benefits from a robust financial portfolio that includes:

• Pension and Social Security: Fran receives a combined income of approximately $70,000 annually from her pension and Social Security benefits.

  Fran [05:03]: "That's probably about 70,000."

• Thrift Savings Plan (TSP): With around $2.5 million accumulated in her TSP, Fran demonstrates a disciplined approach to retirement savings.

  Fran [07:12]: "Basically just, just that. And I put most of my money in the stock market early on because I knew I was going to be in the government for my whole career."

• Real Estate Investments: Fran owns two residential rental properties in Virginia, providing additional income streams.

Fran's disciplined savings and investment strategies have positioned her comfortably for retirement, allowing her to maintain her lifestyle without financial strain.

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Real Estate Investments: Property Details [08:00 - 12:12]

Fran owns two rental properties:

1. Single-Family Home:

   • Value: Approximately $850,000.
   • Mortgage: $300,000 at a 4.25% interest rate.
   • Rental Income: $3,400 per month.
   • Occupancy: Long-term renters, maintaining stability with tenants staying for about four years.
   • Maintenance: Managed efficiently with the help of a reliable contractor.

   Fran [09:07]: "I'd say 850. Yeah, 850, conservatively."

2. Condominium:

   • Value: Approximately $370,000.
   • Mortgage: $150,000 at a similar interest rate of around 4%.
   • Rental Income: $2,300 per month.
   • Occupancy: Higher turnover rate, typical for condo rentals due to tenant mobility.
   • Management: Enhanced involvement as Fran serves on the HOA board, allowing her to monitor and manage the property effectively.

   Fran [10:34]: "Yes. I just joined the board of that HOA, so."

Both properties are performing well, generating positive cash flows with minimal management hassles, thanks to Fran's proactive approach and reliable support network.

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Financial Analysis and Hosts' Insights [12:05 - 18:30]

Jill Schlesinger and Mark Talercio analyze Fran's financial situation, focusing on the sustainability and risks associated with her real estate investments.

1. Income Stability:

   • Fran’s pension and rental incomes sufficiently cover her living expenses.

     Jill [12:05]: "Then I think what I would like you to do is build up some of the bank sort of the emergency reserve."

2. Investment Risk:

   • Fran holds significant equity in real estate, amounting to approximately $1.2 million across her properties.

   • However, her substantial TSP mitigates potential risks, providing liquidity and financial security.

     Jill [13:05]: "You basically live within your means."

3. Market Concerns:

   • Fran expresses anxiety over potential federal layoffs affecting the D.C. area, potentially impacting rental demand.

   • Hosts assess that her current tenant base is not directly tied to federal employment, reducing immediate risk.

     Fran [13:08]: "I don't know if I should sell those investment properties."

4. Tax Implications:

   • Jill warns about the future tax liabilities associated with Fran’s TSP withdrawals, advising a more strategic approach to distributions to avoid higher tax brackets.

     Jill [14:43]: "You're going to get whacked with the distributions."

5. Strategic Recommendations:

   • Diversification: Gradually shifting funds from the TSP to a diversified brokerage account to balance growth and liquidity.

   • Emergency Fund: Building a substantial emergency reserve to cushion against unforeseen expenses or market downturns.

   • Long-Term Planning: Considering the potential sale of properties only if they become a financial burden or if market conditions significantly change.

     Jill [16:45]: "Maybe what you do now is talk to your accountant... and invest the proceeds from the sale of those homes into a balanced brokerage account."

Mark Talercio echoes Jill's sentiments, emphasizing the importance of not making hasty decisions based on market fears.

Mark [18:06]: "I don't see any reason to make a panic move."

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways [18:30 - End]

The episode concludes with Jill and Mark reinforcing the importance of strategic financial planning over reactive decision-making. Fran's situation exemplifies how a well-rounded financial portfolio, inclusive of stable retirement income and profitable real estate investments, can withstand market uncertainties. The hosts advocate for:

• Maintaining Investments: Keeping rental properties as long-term assets that continue to generate income.
• Tax Efficiency: Managing TSP withdrawals to optimize tax liabilities.
• Diversification: Expanding investment portfolios beyond retirement accounts to enhance financial resilience.

Jill [17:33]: "I think that would be great to build up that account, you know, slowly but surely try to get some of the money out of the thrift savings plan because it's going to be a whopping tax bill."

Ultimately, Jill on Money underscores the value of comprehensive financial planning, proactive asset management, and informed decision-making in navigating the complexities of retirement and real estate investments.

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Notable Quotes

• Fran on Savings Discipline [07:12]: "Basically just, just that. And I put most of my money in the stock market early on because I knew I was going to be in the government for my whole career."

• Jill on Diversification [14:48]: "So by the time you get to be, say, 75 and you're young... you have to take that money out every year."

• Mark on Market Stability [18:06]: "I don't see any reason to make a panic move."

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides valuable insights for real estate investors contemplating the sale of properties amidst economic uncertainties. Fran's balanced approach, supported by her substantial retirement savings, serves as a model for maintaining financial stability. Hosts Jill and Mark offer pragmatic advice, emphasizing the importance of diversification and strategic planning to safeguard against market volatility.

If you're grappling with similar decisions or seeking personalized financial guidance, consider reaching out to Jill on Money through their website, jillonmoney.com, to tap into expert advice tailored to your unique financial landscape.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

Gang.

[Mark Talercio]

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[Jill Schlesinger]

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[Mark Talercio]

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[Ed Slott]

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[Jill Schlesinger]

Welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It's Thursday, March 6th and we are here trying to help you make better.

[Mark Talercio]

More considered financial decisions.

[Jill Schlesinger]

If there's something going on in your life, in your real life, and there is something about that decision or something you're contemplating that has to do with your money, we can help. Mark and I, Mark Talercio, the best executive producer in the world and I are both certified financial planners and we love talking to you guys. We just have the best time and we are always encouraged by the notes that we receive. So don't Struggle by yourself. Get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact Us button. Write us that note. If you'd like to join us live, then all you need to do is check the box. Mark will do everything else. So listen, this is a big day for us because this is the last day that you can sign up to become a member of Jill on MONEY live, because tonight we are conducting our live webinar with Ed Slott. Ed is a cpa, but he's so much more than that. I mean, he still does a few tax returns, but he is an IRA and Roth IRA expert and he will be with us live during this webinar where you can ask in real time questions to me, Mark and Ed.

[Mark Talercio]

So we're going to talk about tax season.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We're going to talk about the scuttlebutt.

[Mark Talercio]

That Ed hears about what's going on.

[Jill Schlesinger]

With taxes for the year ahead because there's going to be some kind of negotiation over whether or not to extend the original Trump tax cuts that took.

[Mark Talercio]

Place at the end of 2017.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So Ed's going to let us know what he thinks is going to happen. What, what's the path of likelihood that these get extended for how long? And, you know, it's just great to have him because he's so good about really cutting through the baloney. You can join us if you are a member of Jill on Money Live. That means if you're not, you have until 12 noon right this this minute today, 12 noon eastern time. To subscribe. It will cost you $45 for the next 12 months. You'll get the ED slot webinar, three more webinars after that. We've got bonus audio and video content going up behind the paywall. But again, you've got to sign up by 12 Eastern Time and Mark will then let you in. So it's very exciting to us. All right. Now let us talk to the person who has been very patient. We have Fran, who is on the line from Virginia. Hello, Fran. How are you?

[Fran]

Great. How are you doing?

[Mark Talercio]

We're doing great.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What brings you to us today? What's going on?

[Fran]

Well, I have two residential rental properties and I'm very concerned about all the federal layoffs and firings and the Northern Virginia area. And I don't know if I should sell. Well, sell these investment properties.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, may. Wait a second. Wait a second. Not to be crass about this, but maybe there's going to be a need for rental units because maybe people are going to have to sell their own homes and they're going to need to rent. But wait a second. Let's find out more about you. So, Fran, how old are you?

[Fran]

61.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And are you working or are you retired?

[Fran]

I am retired from the federal government.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, tell us about that. You're retired, do you receive a pension?

[Fran]

Yes, well, I'm under the new retirement system and the federal government, so I get a pension and Social Security and I have TSP, which is like a 401k.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, how much is the pension and Social Security?

[Fran]

That's probably about 70,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And when would you plan on claiming Social Security?

[Mark Talercio]

67 70.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What do you think?

[Fran]

Yeah, something like that. 67 70. And then I also have my 401k. Okay, hold on.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The Social Security. Do you know what the estimate is for your Social Security?

[Fran]

Gosh, was it about 23, 2500.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. Does the 70 grand of your pension right now cover your needs? For the. For the most part. Not, not maybe everything, but for the most part. Do you feel like your needs are taken care of?

[Fran]

Yes, yes, I do.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So in the thrift savings plan, how much is in there?

[Fran]

Oh, about two and a half million.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Holy smokes, Franny. My goodness. How'd you get all that money in there?

[Fran]

I started in the government when I was 23 and I just put the maximum amount on my 401, that's thrift savings plan. And I just continued to put the maximum in for my entire 38 year career.

[Jill Schlesinger]

What was the most that you made as a government employee?

[Fran]

A hundred and about 170,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So imagine that as I think about it. Like you had a, you know, an almost four decade career where you were making good money. Not blow your mind, crazy money.

[Fran]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And you were able to accumulate all of this money.

[Mark Talercio]

So what's your tip?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is the tip is start early and put as much as you possibly can. Or did you do other smart things?

[Fran]

Basically just, just that. And I put most, I put most of my money in the stock market early on because I had, you know, I knew I was going to be in the government for my whole career.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So right now you don't dip into the thrift savings plan at all, do you?

[Fran]

Yes, I do. For travel.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, tell me how much?

[Fran]

Well, I just retired in July, so I mean I just took out like 5,000 for travel recently. Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. What about other. Besides we're going to get to the. I promise we'll get to the rental. What about money in the bank? What do you have?

[Fran]

Not a lot I mean, I, you know, I have like, I have like 20,000 in my checking.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, just like your slush fund.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Do you have any other investments besides the thrift savings plan?

[Fran]

No.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, and now let's talk about. Let's first talk about your primary res. Oh, you know, I didn't ask you. Are you married? Partnered? What? It was single.

[Fran]

No, I'm single.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. Kids or. No kids.

[Fran]

35 year old, 34 year old.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Sorry, whatever. They're fine. Is that kid fully launched? Yes. Okay, so on their own. And how much is your primary residence worth?

[Fran]

Oh, my primary residence is worth about 650.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is there a mortgage on it?

[Fran]

Yes, there is.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is the mortgage that's outstanding?

[Fran]

Oh, about 320,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And what's the interest rate on that?

[Fran]

Oh, that's like 4%.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. And you would like this house? You want to stay in this house?

[Fran]

Yes, I do like this house.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay, great. Now let's talk about the rental property. So let's do rental property one. What is that first property worth about?

[Fran]

I'd say 850. Yeah, 850, conservatively. Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is there a mortgage on this?

[Fran]

Yes.

[Mark Talercio]

How much?

[Fran]

Oh, about 300,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The mortgage interest rate, please.

[Fran]

Oh, it's the same. It's like four and a quarter. Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And the 850, is that fully. Is that rented? Is that an easy property for you to manage? Like, give us a sense of like, is this the pain in the neck aspect of it?

[Fran]

No, it's not. I mean, I don't view it that way. Okay. Because I have the expectation there's going to be repairs, there's going to be things that happen. So it doesn't bother me. Okay.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much rent do you receive from that?

[Fran]

3400.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. The second property, how much is that worth?

[Fran]

That's worth about. It's a condo, a two bedroom condo. It's worth about 370.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Does that also have a mortgage?

[Fran]

Yes, it does.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How much is on that?

[Fran]

It's probably down to like 150,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And also in that 4 range or something more or less?

[Fran]

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Same thing, same thing.

[Mark Talercio]

Got it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And for the condo, how are the homeowners association fees? Are those reasonable? Do you have any sense that that could be rising in the future?

[Fran]

Yes, I think they're reasonable. And I just joined the board of that hoa, so.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, so you are keeping an eye on your investment?

[Fran]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Great. How much money does the rent bring in for the condo?

[Fran]

2,300Amonth for the Condo.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That sounds pretty good.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Give me the type of person who would be renting the eight. Like, do you have a long term person who's been in both of these places? Does it turn over a lot? Like, what's the, what's it been for you?

[Fran]

Well, the single family home, the one that's 850, the renters have been in there for about four years and I don't expect them to be leaving anytime soon.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Fran]

In the condo I have more, I have more turnover on the condo because, you know, people go in and out.

[Jill Schlesinger]

They have a baby. Yeah, okay.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. But both of these properties, you find you're able to manage them perfectly well.

[Fran]

Yeah, I have a fantastic contractor, so that really helps me.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, so let's take a deep breath for a second. So the question is, do you sell one both or neither of these? And right now, I mean, so you've just. So we are just checking in on the money part. The 3400amonth covers. I have to imagine this covers your mortgage. Does it cover all of your expenses for the single family, the 3,400amonth?

[Fran]

Oh, yes, I'm more, I mean I get, I get about $900.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay.

[Fran]

Profit on that per month.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. And what about with the condos?

[Fran]

Not as much, just a couple hundred.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Now neither one of them is a pain in the neck. You have a great contractor. So let's talk about the risk that you have right now. You have a lot of real estate which you know, you're sort of over. I would say that like normally, and I'm not saying you're normal, but like normally I'd be like, oh, look at this, that's 300 grand of 500, 800. You have like a million dollars in equity in all of your three dwellings right now. Normally that might make me nervous, except you got two and a half million dollars in your thrift savings plan, so you're not in any danger at all. You basically live within your means. The 70 plus, let's say it's another $1,000 or $1,200 a month. So the pension plus the rental income plus a little bit of money that you pull out of your thrift savings plan covers your needs, right?

[Fran]

Yes.

[Mark Talercio]

So the big fear that you have.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Is, well, wait a second, if these government workers are all going to get downsized, what happens to the value of my two or three people? Well, you don't care about your primary, you're not moving. So what happens to the value of the Single family. What happens to the value of the condo? Now, we just talked about that. You have had renters for four years. Are they government workers?

[Fran]

No, they are not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I like that. So that feels kind of more secure. Right?

[Fran]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Do you think they'd be in the position to buy your house from you?

[Fran]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. I mean, there's no urgency here. I'd hate to market time this. I hear what you're saying. Look, there could be a real dip in the real estate market for the Washington, D.C. maryland, Virginia markets. There could be a lot of people who put their homes up for sale. There could be, but it's like. It's not as if 275,000 government workers are all living in the D.C. metro area. They live all over the place.

[Mark Talercio]

They don't all own homes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Some of them do, some of them don't. Some of them would sell, some of them won't sell. So I don't feel like there's urgency here. If you said to me, these houses are a pain in the neck, I hate owning them. They're the worst. I want to get liquid. Fine. But that's not what you're telling me. If anything, I think the bigger issue that you confront right now is that you have all this money in the Thrift Savings Plan plan. And I think you may want to take more than your five grand a year out of that because you are going to get whacked with the distributions.

[Mark Talercio]

From that Thrift Savings Plan.

[Jill Schlesinger]

As you know, that hasn't been taxed yet. Right?

[Fran]

Right.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Okay. So by the time you get to be, say, 75 and you're young.

[Mark Talercio]

Right. So this two and a half million.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Could be 3.5 million. And at that time the government's going to say, hey, Fran, guess what? The three and a half, maybe it's even $4 million. We're going to take a slice of that. You have to take that money out every year. So let's just. I'll just say that maybe it's three and a half million. That would mean in your first year.

[Mark Talercio]

You have to pull out $140,000.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's a lot of money. And that 140, plus your pension, plus your rental income, it's going to be at a tax bracket that is maybe not something you can control. So maybe what you do now is talk to your accountant. Did you file your taxes yet for this year?

[Fran]

No, I have not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You work with somebody to do that?

[Fran]

Yes, I do. I have a tax accountant.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So I Think you talk to the accountant and you say, look, I got all this money piled up in my thrift savings plan. And I think what you should try to do is come up with a way to pull the money out in a more methodical fashion. What do I mean by that? Well, you know, instead of doing five here, five there, let's say to say to your accountant, I want to stay in the 24% tax bracket, which is about, for a single person, $200,000. So what I'd like you to do, accountant person, is try to plan on me grabbing that whatever the difference is from my pension and my rental income. I wanna pull as much money as I can out of the thrift savings plan, but I wanna stay in the 24% bracket. And they'll help you with that. And then I think what I would like you to do is build up some of the bank sort of the emergency reserve. And then maybe let's just pretend that you're gonna pull 50 grand out a year. I'm just making this up just for ease. And 50 grand is enough to keep you in this 24% tax bracket. What I would do is I would take some chunk of that 5, 10, 15, whatever you want to spend on your trips. The rest of it, I want to make sure that you've got, you know, a good chunk of money in the bank. Not too much, but, you know, 30, 40 grand. But eventually I think you'd like to have a nice little brokerage account that you could have access to. And if you ever sell the condo or if you ever sell the single family home, the proceeds from the sale of those homes would go into the brokerage account and you would be investing, not all stocks, a more balanced approach, but you would start to get the money all working for you in, in one account. Now, does that freak you out or does that make you feel like no big deal?

[Fran]

No, no big deal.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Look at you there. She's on it.

[Fran]

Yeah, I forgot to mention I do have. I. I do. Well, I do have the bulk my money in tsp, but I have been moving money into a brokerage account with the financial advisor.

[Jill Schlesinger]

So I think that that would be great to build up that account, you know, slowly but surely try to get some of the money out of the thrift savings plan because it's going to be a whopping tax bill. Girl. It's going to be a biggie. I don't think there's any real need to get crazy and sell the house. Mark, would you like to come on the air and give your expert analysis of a market about which we know nothing.

[Mark Talercio]

I don't see any reason to make a panic move.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I mean, I don't either.

[Mark Talercio]

I understand that everyone's kind of on edge, but kind of have that like this too shall pass kind of mentality.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. And I don't think, and I don't. I mean, you've got them, they're rented. If you said to me, oh, well, you know, my renter of the single family home is leaving both of them.

[Mark Talercio]

Work for the government.

[Jill Schlesinger]

They got fired. You know, like all that, I. Then it's a different issue.

[Mark Talercio]

And you didn't have a $70,000 a year pension.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right. So I think you should really. I think you're going to be fine. I really do. And I wouldn't be in a big rush to sell that. I really wouldn't. All right, well, Mark, another happy customer. All right, we don't have customers, but another happy listener.

[Mark Talercio]

The invoice is in the mail.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes, the invoice, 0.00. So if you've got a question. If you're worried about changes in your local market, anything going on in your life, get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the copy contact us button. Write us that note. Check the box if you would like to join us live. Don't forget that you can sign up for the free weekly newsletter right there on the website jillonmoney.com check it out. You can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Don't forget to do something nice for someone else today. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life.

[Mark Talercio]

Thank you for listening.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Ed Slott]

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[Mark Talercio]

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