Should We Stay or Can We Go Now?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Should We Stay or Can We Go Now?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
• Host/Author: Audacy
• Episode: Should We Stay or Can We Go Now?
• Release Date: March 4, 2025

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Introduction In this episode of Jill on Money, hosts Jill Schlesinger, CFP®, and Mark Tularisio welcome Lynn and Maria, a couple from California, who seek guidance on their upcoming retirement plans. The discussion delves into their financial situation, retirement savings, real estate investments, and strategic tax planning to ensure a smooth transition into retirement.

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Guest Introduction and Current Situation Lynn and Maria reach out to evaluate their readiness for retirement. Lynn, aged 59, plans to retire around June 2026, while Maria, aged 58, aims to retire within the year. Their primary concerns revolve around ensuring their financial stability during retirement, especially given the shrinking sector Lynn is involved in.

• Lynn: “We just kind of wanted to do a check-in and see how we're doing and if this is gonna work for us.” [04:08]

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Pensions and Income Streams Lynn has secured two pensions:

1. Previous Job Pension:
   • Starts at $320/month at age 62
   • Increases to $400/month at age 65
2. Current Job Pension:
   • Monthly income of $1,700
   • Additional supplement of $950 until age 62

Combined, these pensions provide a steady income stream, which becomes crucial as they transition into retirement.

• Lynn: “I will have two pensions.” [05:03]

Mark highlights the importance of these pensions in ensuring financial peace of mind.

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Retirement Savings Overview The couple has accumulated substantial savings across various accounts:

• 401(k)s: $2.8 million (traditional), with minimal Roth contributions (~$150,000)
• IRAs: $930,000
• HSA Combo: $70,000
• Brokerage Accounts: $1.9 million
• Cash in Bank: $200,000

Their diversified portfolio indicates strong preparation, though there is room for strategic optimization, especially concerning tax implications.

• Lynn: “We are old. We didn't get to start that and we didn't want to convert.” [06:56]

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Real Estate Investments Lynn and Maria own three properties:

1. Primary Home: Valued at $2.1 million with an outstanding mortgage of $600,000
2. Rental House: Valued at $900,000, generating a positive cash flow of $2,500/month
3. Duplex: Valued at $1 million, providing $700/month in income

Both the rental house and duplex come with outstanding debts, totaling $1.3 million.

• Lynn: “We have debt on all of the property that we have. So our primary home, a small rental. Rental house and then a duplex.” [08:18]

Mark questions the sustainability of income from the duplex and discusses the potential need to sell rental properties post-retirement.

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Expense Management and Budgeting The couple's combined monthly expenses amount to approximately $11,000, which includes property maintenance, insurance, and taxes. With pension incomes totaling around $2,650/month and future Social Security benefits estimated at $8,000/month at full retirement age, they need to bridge the $11,000 monthly gap through withdrawals and investments.

• Mark: “So, like, we don't have to worry about, like, finding the very best asset to leave to my children because we want them to have Roth IRAs, right?” [14:25]

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Tax Strategy and Withdrawal Planning Mark advises Lynn and Maria to strategically withdraw from their traditional retirement accounts to manage their tax bracket effectively. By consulting with their CPA, they can determine the optimal withdrawal amount to stay within the 24% tax bracket, minimizing their tax liabilities while ensuring sufficient income.

• Mark: “You should pull as much as I could out of my retirement account that has not yet been taxed to keep me into the 24% bracket.” [14:25]

Additionally, with the impending sale of their $900,000 rental property, they face significant tax implications due to depreciation. Mark suggests utilizing charitable strategies, such as donor-advised funds, to offset some of the tax burdens.

• Mark: “You could take money that from your brokerage account and move it into a donor advised fund.” [18:03]

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Recommendations for Real Estate and Future Planning Mark encourages the couple to consider downsizing or relocating from their primary home to reduce maintenance costs and improve their quality of life in retirement. Planning ahead can prevent making hasty decisions during stressful times.

• Mark: “If you really don't think this primary is the place where you're going to spend your longer term, maybe the second half of retirement is start looking around.” [20:28]

He emphasizes the importance of leveraging their real estate equity to fund their retirement dreams, such as traveling.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts Jill and Mark commend Lynn and Maria on their substantial savings and strategic investments, reassuring them of their financial readiness for retirement. They encourage listeners in similar situations to reach out for personalized financial advice, highlighting that effective planning can lead to a fulfilling and secure retirement.

• Mark: “Lynn and Maria, you're about to have the time of your lives.” [19:19]

• Jill: “Change your work, change your wealth, change your life.” [22:35]

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Key Takeaways:

• Diversify Income Streams: Relying on multiple pensions and Social Security ensures a stable retirement income.
• Strategic Withdrawals: Plan withdrawals from retirement accounts to optimize tax brackets.
• Real Estate Management: Consider downsizing or selling rental properties to reduce debt and generate liquidity.
• Charitable Contributions: Utilize donor-advised funds to mitigate tax liabilities while supporting philanthropic goals.
• Proactive Planning: Anticipate future needs and make informed decisions to enhance quality of life in retirement.

For personalized financial guidance, listeners are encouraged to visit jillonmoney.com and utilize the "Contact Us" feature.

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Notable Quotes:

• Lynn: “We just kind of wanted to do a check-in and see how we're doing and if this is gonna work for us.” [04:08]
• Mark: “You should pull as much as I could out of my retirement account that has not yet been taxed to keep me into the 24% bracket.” [14:25]
• Mark: “Lynn and Maria, you're about to have the time of your lives.” [19:19]
• Jill: “Change your work, change your wealth, change your life.” [22:35]

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This episode provides valuable insights into retirement planning, emphasizing the importance of strategic financial management, proactive decision-making, and personalized advice to navigate the complexities of transitioning into retirement.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

Gang, I know I always pound the table about getting that estate planning done, but it's so vital and that also includes incorporating your life insurance needs. I know you want to protect your family by securing their future with life insurance and I encourage you to check out policygenius. With policygenius you can find life insurance policies that start at just $292 per year for $1 million of coverage. Some options are 100% online and let you avoid unnecessary medical ex exams. Policygenius can compare quotes from top insurers side by side for free with no hidden fees and they've got a licensed support team that can help you get what you need fast so you can.

[Mark Tularisio]

Get on with your life.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Secure your families tomorrow so you have peace of mind today. Head to policygenius.com to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com for decades, real estate has.

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[Mark Tularisio]

Welcome to the Jill on Money show. It's Tuesday, March 4th and we are here trying to help you make better financial decisions. Maybe just plan ahead. Maybe you've got something cooking, maybe something that's lingering and you want to just have an extra set of ears and eyes on the situation. That's where Mark and I come in. Mark is Mark Tularisio, the very best executive producer in the entire world. He is a certified financial planner. I'm Jill Schlesinger. I'm also a certified financial planner and you know, we really want to help you all navigate your financial journey. So if you've got a question, go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button and write us a note. If you want to join us on the air, check the box and Mark will do everything else. Now, if you've listened to the show for a while and you're like, wow, there's a. A lot of, like, really rich people who come on and you feel intimidated, may I encourage you to subscribe to our other podcast, which is called Money Watch. The Money Watch show is really going to be and has been focused on helping people build their financial blocks, meaning the. We know that some of the folks who come on this show, they're kind of sophisticated. You're all sophisticated. If you want to go back to basics, even if you have a lot of money, you just feel like you need a little bit of a. I don't know, like a tutorial sometimes. Head on over to the Money Watch Show. You can subscribe on our website or wherever you get podcasts, and I think you'll be very pleased because it's going to be a lot of fun to go back to the building blocks for ourselves as well. Mark and I love this, so check that out. That is the Money Watch show, and we drop Money Watch episodes on Saturdays and Sundays. So if you want seven days a week of Jill and Mark, you'll get it. All right. Now, today, let's talk to a lovely couple on the air. It's Lynn and Maria. They join us from California. Hello, you two. How are you?

[Lynn]

We're doing well.

[Mark Tularisio]

Oh, I love it. In sync. This is great. So who wants to talk first? Let's go. Lynn, why did you get in touch with us?

[Lynn]

Well, hi, Jill. We got in touch with you because I'm in a sector that's shrinking. Maria is hoping to retire sometime this year. I'm hoping to retire around June of next year. So that's 2026. And we just kind of wanted to do a check in and see how we're doing and if this is gonna work for us.

[Mark Tularisio]

This sounds like a fun thing to contemplate. So, Lynn, how old are you?

[Lynn]

I am 59.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. And Maria, how old are you?

[Lynn]

She is 58.

[Mark Tularisio]

Is she not speaking to us?

[Maria]

What happened to Maria?

[Mark Tularisio]

Maria, Come on, Maria.

[Lynn]

She's a little shy.

[Mark Tularisio]

Come on, Maria. It's just us.

[Maria]

She's making the sauce.

[Mark Tularisio]

Maria, when you retire sometime this year, will you be entitled to a pension?

[Lynn]

No.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, so. And neither of you will have pensions or will either will You, Lynn, have a pension?

[Lynn]

Yes, I will have. Actually, I'll have two pensions.

[Mark Tularisio]

Oh, I love to. Two is better than one. What. Tell us about both of them.

[Lynn]

So I will have a pension from a previous job, which won't be much. If I take it at 62, it'll be about 320amonth. If I go till 65, it'll be about 400.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay.

[Lynn]

My current job, I am going to leave a little early. So with the reductions for health care, 25 survivor benefits, I'm not going to pull the life insurance. I'm going to drop that. It'll be about 1700amonth. And then I'll also get a little supplement of about 950 until I'm 62. So that's why I'm thinking after that ends at 62, I might pull from the other pension. Just.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, okay, got it. All right, what else is going on for you in terms of retirement savings? So let's do. So, Lynn, let me just stay with you. So you gave us the two pensions. What about. Have you saved money in retirement plans?

[Lynn]

Yes. And do you, would you like me to list individually or can I do it together?

[Mark Tularisio]

You can do it together. You can do the Lynn and Maria retirement totals.

[Lynn]

Here's our savings. So we have in our 401ks, we have about 2.8.

[Mark Tularisio]

Whoa. Okay, I like it.

[Lynn]

There's Mark. Mark is for Mark.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. And, and that 2.8 is a traditional retirement, right?

[Lynn]

Yes, we have. I, I would say very minimal. Maybe 100, maybe 150 in Roth.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay.

[Lynn]

We're old. We didn't get to start that and we didn't want to convert.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, gotcha. What else do we have? So there's our retirement. What else?

[Lynn]

Ira, we have about 9:30.

[Mark Tularisio]

All right, 2.8, 9:30. What else?

[Lynn]

HSA combo, about 70.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, that's. How about brokerage?

[Lynn]

Yeah, brokerage. Approximately 1.9.

[Mark Tularisio]

Love my girls.

[Lynn]

Well, we've been listening a while.

[Mark Tularisio]

Oh man, I love them so much. Okay, so the brokerage account is money that is all long term, meaning like, I presume there's a lot of gains in that account. Is that correct?

[Lynn]

Yes.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, what about cash in the bank?

[Lynn]

200.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. And you live in California. That's a high cost of living state. Do you own your home?

[Lynn]

Okay, I'm going to go through property. Okay.

[Mark Tularisio]

Oh my God, Mark, when they say property, it usually means more than one.

[Lynn]

Okay, you do know your numbers, huh?

[Mark Tularisio]

Hit me, hit me, hit me.

[Lynn]

Okay, so we have, we do have debt on all of the property that we have. So our primary home, a small rental. Rental house and then a duplex.

[Mark Tularisio]

So three properties and yet you only live in one. Okay. The primary is worth how much?

[Lynn]

About 2. 1. 2.1.

[Mark Tularisio]

You want to keep this house like when you retire. This is like the house you love. You want to stay in it.

[Lynn]

That's part of what we want to talk to you about. We love it. It's probably not the, the best decision to stay in it because it's in a historic district and you know, a lot of upkeep. We love it. It's fantastic. But that's probably not where we're going to land. So.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, what's the outstanding mortgage on that one?

[Lynn]

About 600.

[Mark Tularisio]

And the rental property, how much is that worth?

[Lynn]

The duplex is about a million. And the other, the other home is about 900.

[Mark Tularisio]

Would either the duplex or the rental be something you'd want to move into eventually or not? Oh boy. No, no. We've got Ethel Mertz and Ethel Mertz running the rentals. What an old school reference is too. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so interesting though. So the, and the rental and the duplex both have some outstanding debt on those.

[Lynn]

Yes. So our total debt is, is 1. About 1.3.

[Mark Tularisio]

Including the 600 on the primary?

[Lynn]

Yes.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, so 700 over here. Okay. Do you want to sell the rental or the duplex or are they cash flowing some nice money to you?

[Lynn]

So. Yes, they, they are. It's about a positive 2,500amonth. When both of us retire, we'll probably sell the house.

[Mark Tularisio]

The big house?

[Lynn]

The.

[Mark Tularisio]

Not.

[Lynn]

No, the, the rental house.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. Okay, so you'll sell that. So then that rental, 900. What will you clear if you sell that?

[Lynn]

CM7.

[Mark Tularisio]

Does that include the tax liability? Because if it's been a rental, then you've been depreciating it.

[Lynn]

Yeah. Maybe six.

[Mark Tularisio]

Let's say six.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Mark Tularisio]

What are we doing with that six?

[Lynn]

Traveling.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. That's just fun. There's nothing else that's earmarked for. No, I don't have to buy something extra. Okay, so that's. So then when you're left with the duplex, what will the income be just from that?

[Lynn]

About 700amonth.

[Mark Tularisio]

That's it. That's not a lot on a million dollar property. No. You sure you want to keep it? Not sure. Not sure. Maybe not sure. Okay. How much you guys spend?

[Lynn]

I would say combo a month. And this is including, you know, our taking care of our properties, our car insurance and taxes and all that.

[Mark Tularisio]

All in.

[Lynn]

Yeah, all in. Ten, seven.

[Mark Tularisio]

Let's just say 11.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Mark Tularisio]

Come on, let's.

[Lynn]

You love to round up.

[Mark Tularisio]

I do. I'm an up. I'm an up gal. Okay. 11,000amonth. And we also know that, you know, you will have. I'm not including. Let's just not, you know, the 950amonth supplement that you're entitled to. And I'm just kind of putting that on the side because I'm sure you're going to end up spending that on health insurance or whatever it is, but you're going to have two grand a month in pension income. I'm just going to do about. Right. And then what about your future Social Security benefits? What does that look like at. Let's just give me the. The 67, the full retirement age.

[Lynn]

So 67 is combined. It's about 8,000.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. Obviously, Mark is laughing.

[Maria]

I mean, they could. They could increase their monthly spend to $20,000 a month and they would be fine.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay, they're not going to do that. They're not going to do that because this is already. We understand who they are. Okay, so let's take a deep breath for a minute. You guys are married or are you partnered? Okay, you're married. Okay. So all of your estate documents are done, right? Yeah. No. Yes. Yes. Okay. Phew. So you have a lot of money. Like, I say that. Not like I don't want to state the obvious. And I'm going to state the obvious. So let's say you retire. Let's say you're both done. Like, tomorrow. Like, I'm giving my notice. Bye. And you give someone the finger and you're like, I'm out of here. Or as we like to call it in our family, you're one bad meeting away. Like, okay, that's it. So now you're both done this year. Let's just do that. And so we know that you have this period of time until you can claim Social Security, where we need to generate some money, right?

[Lynn]

Yes.

[Mark Tularisio]

Ten grand a month. Okay, so where is that money coming from? You're wondering. So the first thing you can do is you can, if you'd like, just start pulling out of your traditional retirement accounts. And nice, you know, just nice and easy. Like, it doesn't mean that you have to. You don't have to convert everything. You don't have to go crazy, but you do, you know, you can take out 120, 130,000, whatever. You can talk to your accountant. You have a tax preparer an accountant who does this with you?

[Lynn]

Yes.

[Mark Tularisio]

You could just say, like, look, we're going to start pulling money out of retirement. We want you to know that. So we're not going to drop down into, like, the lowest tax bracket in tomorrow, but we are going to be able to pull this money out. We're going to live on that money every year, and you're going to pull it out from whichever account you want. Either the traditional IRAs or the retirement account. Doesn't really matter to me. And I would be very methodical about that, frankly, because, you know, there's so. On one hand, I would say to you that you should feel entitled to just, you know, blow all your money. Do you guys have kids or no kids? No, no kids. Okay. So, like, we don't have to worry about, like, finding the very best asset to leave to my children because we want them to have Roth IRAs, right? We don't really need to do that. What's your combined income right now?

[Lynn]

So 325 plus 160.

[Mark Tularisio]

All right, so you're, like, mostly in, like the 30. Mostly in the 24% bracket, but, you know, you drift. I presume that, you know, with income from the rental property, it goes up to, you know, it can go up to 32%. I would be very content if I were you guys, to just pull as much as I could out of my retirement account that has not yet been taxed to keep me into the 24% bracket. So one thing you might want to do after this tax year is sit down with your tax preparer, your CPA, and say, hey, we want to stay in the 24% bracket every year, you know, at least for the next few years. While we know where tax laws are, just, you have to tell us the exact amount of money we pull out to stay in the 24% bracket. Very easy. It's going to be, you know, about 385,000 or so between the two of you. Now, the thing is the. Of course, the sale of that $900,000 rental property is going to trigger more taxes. So things will be a little bit hinky the first time when you sell that. Okay. But I still think you should take that money out. Mark, is there any reason why Lynn and Maria should focus on convert. Diverting the traditional IRA and the traditional retirement account? Because there is, you know, almost $4 million in those two types of buckets that have not yet been taxed. Should we. Should we deign to go all the way up to the 32% bracket where they could pull up almost like a half a million dollars a year.

[Maria]

I think I would.

[Mark Tularisio]

You would? It's scary only because you guys are young and you're healthy and it's great. But you maybe not the very first year, like, maybe you just stay in the 24% for the year that you sell the rental property, but then you go up. Because the reason why Mark is saying that is that the money is going to accumulate like crazy in your retirement accounts. It's really nuts. And then, you know, like a good rule of thumb will be that by the time you have to start withdrawing money, let's say that now the 4 million is like 6 million or 8 million. Who knows? It's like, you know, it's a long time between now and age 75. Right. And if you think about it, you would be forced to take out about 4% every year from those accounts. And we don't really know what the situation is going to be tax wise. We know that right now, like 32%, you're used to paying 32%. So maybe we just get that money out and we try to aggressively get it out between now and the future time when you have to take those withdrawals. Here's a question to you. Do you guys have charitable inclinations?

[Lynn]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Mark Tularisio]

These are Mother Teresa and her wife. Mother Teresa.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes, of course.

[Mark Tularisio]

So another thing to consider is that, you know, again, you're young, we have like 10 years to just get some money out, live your lives, have fun, see what life brings to you when the time comes. When you're 70 and a half, there is an ability to take some money out of your retirement accounts, but it bypasses you and it goes straight over to a charity that's called a qualified charitable distribution. That's another way to get money out of the accounts. That said, you know, like, based on right now, that's about $108,000 a year each. So I mean, that's a lot of money. So that's one idea. And the other idea is if you wanted to, where is your brokerage account held right now?

[Lynn]

We have Fidelity and Vanguard.

[Mark Tularisio]

Okay. So, I mean, Fidelity and Vanguard also have these things called a donor advised fund where you could take money that from that brokerage account. Okay, this is an idea for when you sell the rental property. You could say, all right, we know we're going to have a nasty tax year. The year that we have the sale of the rental property, we could take a bunch of money from our brokerage account and we could move it into a donor advised fund. The donor advised fund. You would basically be saying you take this huge charitable deduction in the year that you push the money into the donor advised fund. I mean, you could literally put like 400 grand in there if you wanted to and you get this massive deduction. You'd have to make sure again, you got to talk about this with the accountant because you've got a lot of moving pieces to your picture. The important aspect of this is that you can defray some of the tax bill in the year that you're going to take that big tax hit on the sale of the rental property. So that's something to consider. I think in the biggest, like, biggest, biggest picture. Lynn and Maria, you're about to have the time of your lives. Mark, you want to sing that? I've had the time of my life. Would you like to sing that?

[Maria]

I just heard that on the radio. I've been hearing that a lot.

[Lynn]

I think Mark should sing it.

[Mark Tularisio]

Here he goes. The time of my life. Okay, so listen, Lynn and Marie about to have the time of their lives. You guys, I would not. If either of you has any inkling about whether or not you should step down from your jobs, you have carte blanche. You can do it financially. You may want to do it because you like your co workers or with this, that and the other thing. There's nothing bad. I don't care about haircuts to your pension. It does not mean anything. You guys have done an incredible job of saving money. Just incredible. You've got over $6 million that's saved up. Not to mention, you know, the money that you have in real estate, which is amazing. And I think that what your job is is that once you do retire is that you want to use the tax code to your advantage, which means you want to start pulling money out of your retirement assets at a tax rate that is reasonable to you. You're already used to paying, you know, 24 and 32 and work with the accountant or the CPA to try to minimize the tax due on the sale of the rental property. And then I also think what you would probably be wise to do is that if you really don't think this primary is the place where you're going to spend your longer term, maybe the second half of retirement is start looking around. There's nothing, there's no urgency. But it's, it's kind of like having the sense like, you know, my in laws, they were like in their 80s and they kept talking about like we really need to find something else. And then my father in law died. He was like 88 years old. And, you know, my mother in law is living in this, you know, five bedroom house with everything upstairs. Now, she claims that climbing those stairs every day was what got her into her 90s. But at some point she was like, I can't do this anymore. And it was not great to have that decision at a crisis point that like, oh, my God, I actually can't do this. And so if you're more thoughtful about what you think you might need and you talk to friends who are doing different things and, you know, maybe it's just a different type of house, maybe it's not. You don't have to pull up stakes and go to a whole different community, but you got a lot of equity in that house. Got a lot of equity in the duplex. You can get whatever you want. You should be thoughtful about it and get ahead of it. And that's. That is the only thing that I think you guys really need to do.

[Lynn]

Okay. Awesome.

[Mark Tularisio]

How are you feeling?

[Lynn]

Good.

[Mark Tularisio]

Yes. Excited.

[Lynn]

Thank you.

[Mark Tularisio]

I'm excited for you.

[Lynn]

Yeah. Really accomplished.

[Mark Tularisio]

And keep us posted. Let us know if there's anything that you need along the way. Welcome to the next phase of your lives. We're very happy for you and everybody else listening. If you are contemplating whatever the next phase is, by the way, there are plenty of people like Lynn and Maria who come on the program. They don't have as much money, but they live within their means. You don't need to have $6 million. You don't have to be the $6 million women. They're like the bionic women, right? You don't need all that money to necessarily reach whatever goals you have in mind. But if you need some assistance kind of working through the numbers and trying to help you think about what are the next steps. Get in touch with us. Just go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button. Check the box. If you want to come on the air live.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You can change your names.

[Mark Tularisio]

Shh. Lynn and Maria. Not their real names. And don't forget that you can always just, you know, make it very easy. We can change facts if you're a little freaked out, so don't worry about that. You can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen. And hey, check out our Money Watch podcast, which drops on Saturdays and Sundays. You can also subscribe to that on the Odyssey app. Try to lift someone up. I'm going to tell you something. Lyna Maria we just lifted them up. I'm excited. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

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[Jill Schlesinger]

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