Stacking Benjamins Part One

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger Episode: Stacking Benjamins Part One
Release Date: December 28, 2024

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Introduction

In the final weekend episode of the year, host Jill Schlesinger, CFP®, welcomes Joe Saul Sehi, the creator of the popular podcast Stacking Benjamins. This episode marks the beginning of a two-part interview where Jill and her co-host Mark delve into Joe's journey from financial planning to podcasting, exploring the evolving landscape of financial advice.

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Guest Introduction: Joe Saul Sehi

Timestamp: [03:05]

Jill introduces Joe Saul Sehi as a long-time friend, podcaster, and author who previously worked as a financial planner. Mark shares his admiration for Joe, highlighting their collaboration and Joe's transition from financial planning to media.

Quote:

Mark: "I think it's a great way to finish up the year. So here is the first part of our interview with Joe Saul Sehi."
[03:05]

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Joe's Journey from Financial Planning to Podcasting

Timestamp: [03:38]

Joe recounts his 16-year career as a financial planner, inspired by mentors like Chris Saul. A pivotal moment occurred as Joe approached his 40th birthday, leading him to reassess his career path. Influenced by his mentor's adventurous spirit—climbing Everest twice—Joe decided to transition out of traditional financial planning.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "He went on to climb almost all the tall peaks on earth. He now runs an adventure travel company. He's climbed Everest twice. This dude was serious when he said he had other mountains to climb."
[06:13]

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Transitioning Careers and Building Stacking Benjamins

Timestamp: [07:01]

Facing a career crossroads, Joe sold his financial planning franchise for over half a million dollars, giving him the financial freedom to explore his passion for teaching and writing. Initially enrolling in a teaching program at Texas A&M, Joe found himself more drawn to writing and financial education than classroom administration. This shift led him to create a blog titled The Free Financial Advisor, which eventually evolved into the Stacking Benjamins podcast.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "I began just writing and quit before the program ended, and then started up a blog... which became Stacking Benjamins."
[08:38]

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Philosophies Aligned: Jill and Joe's Perspectives

Timestamp: [12:26]

Joe shares how he discovered Jill's work and admires her straightforward approach to financial advice. He emphasizes the alignment of their philosophies, noting that both aim to demystify financial planning and make it accessible to the average person.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "I believe our philosophies... align so much."
[12:26]

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The State of the Financial Advisory Industry

Timestamp: [13:29]

Joe expresses optimism about the financial advisory industry, highlighting the increasing need for good advice in today's complex financial landscape. He points out the growing transparency that helps distinguish quality advisors from those offering subpar services. However, he notes challenges such as the aging advisor population and the underrepresentation of advisors of color.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "I believe that advice has never been more needed than now."
[13:29]

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Barriers to Entry for Diverse Advisors

Timestamp: [14:25]

Joe and Mark discuss the difficulties in attracting more women and people of color into the financial advisory field. Joe suggests that the sales component of financial advising can be intimidating, potentially deterring diverse candidates. He advocates for mentorship opportunities with mid-career advisors to foster new talent.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "I think advisors of color... don't have somebody that look like them."
[14:25]

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The Evolution of Financial Products: Focus on Annuities

Timestamp: [16:04]

The conversation shifts to the evolution of financial products, particularly annuities. Joe highlights the lack of low-cost annuities compared to the significant reduction in fees for mutual funds and ETFs. He emphasizes the importance of consumers understanding the fees associated with annuities and advocates for greater transparency in the industry.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "I think more people go, what are the fees on this thing? Show me just the fee schedule."
[17:32]

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Closing Thoughts and Future Insights

Timestamp: [17:44]

As the discussion wraps up, Joe underscores the need for consumers to ask critical questions about financial products and services. He parallels the healthcare industry's lack of transparency with the financial sector, urging advisors and consumers alike to prioritize clarity in fees and costs.

Quote:

Joe Saul Sehi: "Nobody asks for the price sheet... They obfuscate all the time."
[17:32]

Jill hints at the continuation of the conversation in the next episode, promising further insights with Joe Saul Sehi.

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Conclusion

This episode of Jill on Money offers a deep dive into Joe Saul Sehi's transition from financial planning to podcasting, shedding light on the current state and future of the financial advisory industry. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on the importance of transparent financial advice, the challenges in diversifying the advisory workforce, and the evolution of financial products like annuities.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mark on Ceasing Weekend Episodes:
  "Mark and I have decided to cease dropping episodes on the weekends and we did so with a lot of encouragement from you all."
  [01:40]

• Joe on Career Transition:
  "Everybody's afraid to walk through the door. Right. Because if I walk through the door, then all these other doors close."
  [08:43]

• Joe on Financial Advice Necessity:
  "I believe that advice has never been more needed than now."
  [13:29]

---

For more insights and future episodes, visit jillonmoney.com and subscribe to Jill on Money on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

Buy low, sell high Buy low, sell high. It's a simple concept, but not necessarily an easy concept. Right now, high interest rates have crushed the real estate market. Prices are falling and properties are available at a discount, which means fundrise believes now is the time to expand the Fundrise Flagship Fund's billion dollar real estate portfolio. You can add the Fundrise Flagship Fund to your portfolio in minutes by visiting fundrise.com jillonmoney that's fo f U-N-R-I-S-E.com jillonmoney carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the Fund's [e-mail] Flagship this is a paid advertisement Shift in plans Unexpected Opportunity With Fidelity Wealth Management, a dedicated advisor can help you realize your goals with personalized money management. They can proactively view your portfolio with an eye on taxes and the impact of risk. So you have a partner who can help you reach your wealth's full potential. Visit fidelity.com wealth investment minimums apply Advisory services offered by Fidelity Personal and Workplace Advisors, llc, a registered investment advisor for a fee. This advertisement is brought to you by Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC. Member NYSE SIPC welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It's Saturday, December 28th, and gosh, I think that's the last time I'm gonna say Saturday.

[Mark]

I mean, it's pretty amazing.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Mark and I have decided to cease dropping episodes on the weekends and we did so with a lot of encouragement from you all. So we thank you for that. We are still answering your emails and.

[Mark]

We are still bringing you on the.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Program Monday through Friday. But for the weekends we're gonna take.

[Mark]

A little bit of a break.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Of course, we are happy to receive.

[Mark]

Your questions seven days a week.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And if you've got a financial question, all you need to do is go to our website, jillonmoney.com and in the upper right hand corner, click the Contact Us button. Write us a note and if you want to join us live, check the box and Mark will do everything else. Hey, while you're on the website, just a few more days for you to lock in the $35 price for Jill on Money Live. Yep, for $35 you will have access to quarterly live webinars, the back catalog, more bonus content. And that $35 is going up to $45 at the beginning of next year in just a few days.

[Mark]

So maybe you want to do that right now.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's a Very good idea. Okay, so for this last weekend of the year and the last weekend of our broadcast, unless, of course, there is some sort of weird emergency, I promise we'll drop something if something's going on. But for the regularly scheduled shows, our last weekend, we have a special guest. He is a friend of the pod. His name is Joe Saul Sehi. He is a podcaster. He is an author. His podcast is called Stacking Benjamin's.

[Mark]

It's really great.

[Jill Schlesinger]

He used to be a financial planner.

[Mark]

And he and I became acquainted some time ago, and it was really great.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Because he was in New York City and we got to sit down in his studio and talk to him about his background and some of his thoughts about how to get financial advice.

[Mark]

And I think it's a great way.

[Jill Schlesinger]

To finish up the year. So here is the first part of our interview with Joe Saul Cehai.

[Mark]

So, Joe, for people who don't know your background, why don't you explain to us how it is that you started this podcast 14 years ago.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I was a. I was a financial planner for 16 years, and when I was turning 40, a mentor of mine wrote this email. Well, no, it wasn't even email. It was a printed out. I mean, this is a while ago, right? Printed out, had it and put it in everybody's mailbox that he was leaving. And this was. Was more of a company, Jill. Like a lot of the companies back 16 years ago where you'd leave the company and the next morning it's Jerry Maguire. Right. For people that don't know the old movie, everybody's calling the client, trying to get the client to come with him. So nobody gives two weeks notice. But Chris had this wonderful message that was, you know, I really like being in financial planning, but I don't love it. I don't think it's the only thing. And unless reincarnation is real and I can do this all over again, I don't wanna waste my life doing something that's only 85%. And that really hit me.

[Mark]

Wait a minute, wait, so this guy is writing like a Jerry Maguire kind of letter, which is.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

He totally is.

[Mark]

I don't know if I'd wanna do that. I'm not sure I'd wanna put myself out there like that, but. Okay, but he's your mentor. You love him. But wait, let's go back beyond that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Okay.

[Mark]

You grew up where?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, there's even more to that story, but yes, I'll get back to that story. Yeah, that's fine. I grew up in Redneck West Michigan.

[Mark]

Okay, Redneck West Michigan. We have friends who are in redneck West Michigan. I think I love West Michigan. What got you involved in financial planning in the first place?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You know what's funny? I would watch shows like CBS this morning or the Today show and I'd see these geniuses like Jill Schlesinger that were always seem to have these cool quirks. Hey, if you do this at the grocery store, if you do this with your utility bills, I thought all that stuff was fantastic. And then I'm working in this dead end job in college, just graduating. And at that time I had this great friend, Marcus Wilson. And Marcus writes me this note and says, joe, and this is a quote, he says, we don't normally hire people like you. Creative writing major, nothing to do with finance. He goes, but I think you'd be really good at this job. So I went into it, this is the very early 90s. At that time it's all sales. Right. Was very good at it because different than a lot of financial majors, I could just talk plainly like the guy next door about your money. I'm like, listen, here's wow, I'm screwing this up. This is what you do differently. Bam.

[Mark]

Right? Okay, so now you join you're in a financial planning firm. And now let's we'll flip forward to mentor leaves. He says, like, don't do it unless you're 100% in it. He was only 85% in it. What did he go on to do, by the way?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, here's the deal. At the bottom of that, he said, I think I have other mountains to climb. I've done a really good job of saving. I don't know that I can stay retired forever, but I think I can go chase and figure out what it was. What's cool is my friends and I, we thought he was being metaphorical. Yeah, not being metaphorical at all. He went on to climb almost all the tall peaks on earth. He now runs an adventure travel company. He's climbed Everest twice. This dude was serious when he said he had other mountains to climb. But that really hit me. I was turning 40 and I was like, you know what?

[Mark]

Married with kids.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Already married young kids. Yeah. Making good money, making great money. And as you know, at that point, after you swim that financial planning mo, it becomes a really good job and a lucrative job right at the same time.

[Mark]

Were you doing straight up financial planning or were you selling insurance? Were you putting people in mutual funds? Like, how'd you charge Dual Hat?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, at the beginning of course it was commissions only. That was just the business at the time. And then switched over to dual identity, which was wild. Hey, sometimes I'm going to be an insurance agent. Other times I'm going to be maybe selling a fund. Other times I'm just writing a financial plan and I'm a fiduciary. And it was up to me to explain that to clients.

[Mark]

You're a cfp, right?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I would see. No, no, I'm not. I'm not. Well. And all of my licenses I let go.

[Mark]

Okay?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I let every license I had go because I didn't want to come back. I wanted to do the thing where you burn your ships.

[Mark]

Okay, all right. So you're selling stuff, you're making a good living, you're 40. It strikes you. And then is your wife working at that time?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

She is working, yeah. So then we go down to a one income family. We're going to struggle, but thank God for Cheryl. She's like, you know what, if you're not feeling this, let's go find the thing. And I was lucky. So my business was a franchise. I sell my franchise, which gives me a great big bag of money too, to give me time.

[Mark]

Mind me asking how much you sold it for?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, I sold it for less than a million, but more than half a million.

[Mark]

Hey, I can do that math.

[Jill Schlesinger]

That's pretty good.

[Mark]

Pre tax or after tax?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It was a combination because of the way that you sell it. Right. So there was part of it we did as an earn out and part of it we did as pre tax money.

[Mark]

But like, don't you find, like that sounds like a big number when you're 40, but it's not that much money. But you had a Runway, you had enough money in the bank.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Absolutely.

[Mark]

And you'd save money. And she's working. And so now what?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Now then I decide I'm gonna do the thing that lights me up. Cheryl and I met coaching middle school track. So I was gonna become an English teacher and a high school track coach and not make much money.

[Mark]

Weirdly, you're not doing that right now.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm not.

[Mark]

Interesting.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah. But wait, there's more.

[Mark]

So what happened?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

So I start off on that journey and what's funny, if there's a lesson here for anybody, and this is, you know, you and I interview a lot of people. I think the big lesson here is everybody's afraid to walk through the door. Right. Because if I walk through the door, then all these other doors close. The truth is, once you begin walking down the Path other doors that you didn't expect open. So I start, I take all my classes to become a teacher. It's a post bachelor teaching program at Texas A and M. I am, by the way, my partner in two of my classes was this woman, Whitney. Whitney. I am 40 years old. Whitney is 19. And you know how weird that was. And she's super smart.

[Mark]

And she was like, oh, you're my child.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yes, exactly. I felt so old, but it was really fun. But the thing that I had great professors, and the thing I learned was, and this is sad, because I know a lot of wonderful teachers. I learned, my teachers taught me. I would be spending time fighting administrators. And one teacher, because we had to go audit classrooms. One teacher said, this wonderful woman, Ryan Murray, great teacher. She said, I try to make sure that my students don't know the emperor has no clothes. And she was fantastic at laying down the law, being very motivational and great, but don't mess with me. Even though she told me, she's like, if I send anybody to the office, nothing good happens. When they get to the office, nothing good happens. And so at the same time, I'm taking classes, I'm in shorts and a T shirt, and I'm home when my kids get home from school. My kids are freshmen in high school at this point, and I'm really loving my ability to be there for them at the same time because of all the PR work I had done because my franchise was a franchise of American Express and then Ameriprise. So because I'd done so much PR for American Express, I was one of 12 advisors in the country that did nationwide stuff for them. I start getting calls from all my friends like, hey, you're a good writer. Could you write my client newsletter? Could you write my script for when I go on local tv? I start doing that Jill. And then I do the math and I'm like, I'm having fun teaching people about money, but I don't have to deal with any administrators. I can do it the way that I want. And as long as my client's happy, then I'm happy. And so I began just writing and quit before the program ended, and then started up a blog. The blog we called the Free Financial Advisor. We made a which, by the way, think financial advisors should be free, which is why we got that domain. And we taught people that, hey, we're bait and switch, right? And then second then we started a podcast.

[Sharon McMahon]

Hey, friends, I'm Sharon McMahon, host of here's where it Gets Interesting. Each week I speak with authors, experts, and thought leaders on everything from American history and democracy to how to be a better person on the Internet. And don't miss my extremely popular Docu series, which educate you on things you never learned in history class. Follow and listen to. Here's where it gets interesting. On the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Which we called the worst of the free financial Advisor because we knew it was going to be horrible. Right. And that became two guys in your money became Stacking Benjamins.

[Mark]

And then I guess. When did it become Stacking Benjamins?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

About a year and a half later.

[Mark]

Okay, so what year is this?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

This is. Oh, my goodness. So now we are. We're 14 years ago. Yeah. So 2011.

[Mark]

So this is the same thing. This is like, right when I started, my radio show was 2011. I mean, I was already at CBS, but my radio show launched in 2011 nationally. And how did we find each other?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I found you because I don't. Well, and I've said this a hundred times to our stacker audience that I don't listen to a lot of financial podcasts. I really. I try to maybe a few times a month to listen to some shows. There's one show I've listened to forever, and it's your show. Jill on Money has gone with me on so many runs, and it's just. It's so fun and it's so. And I believe our philosophies, as we've talked about you and I many times, without the camera running, our philosophies align so much.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That I'm always trying to guess, how's Jill gonna answer this question.

[Mark]

But sometimes it's interesting when you have people like us who come from the industry and have now kind of crossed over into editorial, let's say, or the public speaking stuff, that part of it is that we can kind of call out BS when we see it. And so you've watched the industry evolve so much. How do you feel about the financial advisory planning business right now? What do you think's going on?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm really optimistic. Well, I'm an optimist by heart, Right? No, kid, if you're an entrepreneur, you totally are. But I believe that advice has never been more needed than now. Good advice has never been more needed than now. I think there's a lot more transparency around what bad advice is, and maybe that's because I bathe in it every day. Right. And so I feel like I'm surrounded by all these great advisors you hear all the time about people that aren't so good. But I just feel like we're headed toward much more. Same side of the table. You know, the advisor is your friend. They're your agent. They're gonna take care of stuff that you don't know how to take care of or you do. And you're not gonna waste your time spending 50 hours doing this. You're gonna have somebody that can do it very quickly.

[Mark]

Right.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You know, take care of it for you. I think, though, this is what's disturbing. I think there's a lot of advisors at retirement age, so there's a lot of room for young advisors. We're not seeing as many as I'd like.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I also think advisors of color. There are so many people of color that need financial advice and don't have somebody that look like them.

[Mark]

Yeah. Women and people of color. I mean, for so long, when I was, you know, working with the CFP board and they said, we really want you to help us get more women and people of color, but the needle doesn't move. Why? Why do we think that. Why do we think that people don't come into this industry? I think it's because that a lot of folks are kind of spooked by the fact that there's a real sales component.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh, well, yes. Yeah.

[Mark]

And that's hard. If I could sit in a corner and do financial plans and someone could just give me the, you know, so, you know, how do you think we can get over that hurdle? Is it maybe that you become an advisor with a Fidelity or a Vanguard or a Schwab, and you become part of their advisor network and you get fed the business? Is that something that's.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think I'd rather see people go in on the back end with some. One of these mature advisors that's maybe five to ten years away from retirement. This would be the dream job. Right, Right. If I can learn from somebody who's five to 10 years away from retirement, I can do the financial planning, the backend work. I can sit in the meeting and see how they work with their client. I think that's great. I think also, though, realizing that life is sales, Jill, and you know this.

[Mark]

Yes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Even if we're not in sales, you know, there's times with Cheryl and she needs to convince me what we're gonna eat tonight, you know, for dinner.

[Mark]

How does she do with that sailing?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh, she wins every time. Every single time.

[Mark]

When you look back at some of the things that happened in the 90s and the early 2000s, especially with the idea around life insurance or insurance products in general.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Have we seen an evolution or not?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

No, no, not nearly enough. I was lucky to attend a few years ago symposium at mit. There were people from the media there, there were financial advisors there, there were regular people off the street that were there and people from the annuity industry. It was really interesting, this melting pot and MIT got them all together. And I sat there as a journalist or member of the media and watched this happen and it was horrible. The people in the audience told the annuity industry, told the insurance industry what bothered them. And the annuity and insurance industry is so embedded in their advisory sales network and they'd have to dismantle all that so much that. Jill, it was like, but how?

[Mark]

I mean, look, so you and I came of age when there were commission based mutual funds, right?

[Jill Schlesinger]

The very first mutual fund that was.

[Mark]

Sold was sold for an eight and a quarter percent upfront commission, right? And then it went to, you know, five and four and then, and now everyone can buy things for zero, right? It's basically free to be a long term passive investor. We have not seen anything like that in insurance. I've always heard about the promises. Oh no, there's going to be low cost annuities and immediate annuities. No, they really not in a widely available way.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You have to dig, what is it.

[Mark]

That we can do? Because people do love the idea of a stream of income. I don't think anyone loves the idea of a whole life insurance policy, but I do think people like the idea of an annuity. Like you're going to convert a chunk of money into an income.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

When you tell someone, wouldn't it be great to have a pension? There's not a person on earth that would go, oh no, I don't want a pension.

[Mark]

Yeah, you gave it up by not being a teacher.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Exactly. Everybody loves pensions. But you say, oh, guess what an annuity is if you use it right? It's a pension. Oh, I heard about annuities. Those are. I don't want that. I think that we need to do the same thing that a health insurance expert told me on our show, Scott. He said the reason why your hospital visit costs so much is because nobody asks for the price sheet. Nobody asks, what does this actually cost? You're trained to ask. I'm trained to ask. But so many people aren't trained to ask. I think when more people go, what are the fees on this thing? Show me just the fee schedule.

[Jill Schlesinger]

They obfuscate all the time.

[Mark]

What are the fees oh, it won't cost you anything. It comes out of the contract.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, legally they have to show you this projection, which is in force sales projection that will lay out the fees on tables. But again, we don't know to ask for that.

[Mark]

Even if you do ask, it's sort of like a weird thing. I was just thinking when you said, you know, people don't ask, like, what's it gonna cost to go to the hospital? Like, how am I to judge? I'm not a medical expert.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Sure.

[Mark]

And the vast majority of people are like, if someone who's selling an annuity says, well, it costs you 2% a year.

[Jill Schlesinger]

2%.

[Mark]

That sounds small to the average person. So where do you see, like, I almost feel like if we could get. I think that Fidelity is getting in this business. When you work with their advisors and they're selling immediate annuities, they are low cost annuities.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It almost has to be through a.

[Mark]

Place that is offering, you know, 0% mutual funds or zero cost exchange traded funds. Like, it has to be someone who's got the ability to present something that's really cheap. But we don't see that in a widespread manner yet in a history of.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Doing that too, by the way, at a Fidelity or a Vanguard or a Schwab.

[Jill Schlesinger]

We'll have part two with Joe tomorrow. But in the meantime, if you've got a question and something comes up after listening to this conversation, just go to the website jillonmoney.com, click the contact Us button. Write us that note.

[Mark]

And if you want to join us.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Live on the air, check the box. Mark will do everything else.

[Mark]

Don't forget to sign up for the free weekly newsletter.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen and of course, lift someone up.

[Mark]

Change your work, change your wealth, change your life.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you tomorrow.