Tap TSP for Renovations?

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
Episode Title: Tap TSP for Renovations?
Date: November 12, 2025
Main Theme:
Jill Schlesinger fields a deeply practical listener question about tapping retirement savings—the federal Thrift Savings Plan (TSP)—to pay for much-needed home renovations. The episode focuses on balancing prudent financial planning, college savings for children, and giving yourself permission to enjoy your hard-earned money. The show features a live call with Ann, a federal employee, and explores the emotional as well as technical considerations of spending retirement funds before retirement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Background and Situation (01:38 – 09:13)

• Ann, 61, federal employee from Upstate NY, is currently working without pay due to a government furlough.
• She plans to work until age 68 or 70 but is eligible to retire now.
• Married to a 62-year-old husband, who works part-time ($10k/year) and just started a small monthly pension ($1,000 after tax).
• Has twins, age 15, both college-bound.
• Assets & Income:
  • 529 college account: $40,000
  • Husband’s Roth IRA: $120,000 (intended for college use)
  • Ann’s TSP: $1,025,000 (mostly traditional; $20k Roth)
  • Savings: $25k in high-yield, $12k in regular savings
  • No brokerage/taxable investment account
  • Expected pension at 70: $5,200/month (with 50% survivor benefit); Social Security for both: ~$6,000/month at 70

2. Managing Cash Flow Under Uncertainty (09:13 – 10:28)

• Ann’s current annual salary: $162,000 + fluctuating bonus (est. $30,000).
• Side hustle provides ~$30,000/year, which is funneled to college savings.
• Comfortable cash flow in normal times, but currently dipping into savings due to furlough and using credit cards (intending to pay them off soon).

3. Expense Picture and Future Concerns (09:30 – 12:07)

• Monthly spending: ~$9,000 ("bare bones" ~$6,000).
• Main focus for the next few years is college funding for twins; wants to avoid saddling kids with debt.
• Sufficient inflow during working years, but not expecting meaningful financial aid due to current income.

4. The Big Question: Using TSP for Renovations (11:07 – 17:46)

• Ann would like to use her TSP to pay for home upgrades (target: $50k–$100k). Prefers not to take on debt.
• Jill addresses the emotional hurdle of spending after a career of strict saving:

  "We lived our whole work lives, like, sock away, sock away, sock away. But then it's hard to come back... It's hard to spend it. I get it." (12:07, Jill)

• Home value: ~$350k, mortgage: $130k left at 3.5% interest.
• Jill validates Ann’s plan: not a problem to use retirement savings for these costs given her pension, Social Security, and intent to keep working.

5. Tax Planning and FAFSA Considerations (14:41 – 17:46)

• Advises possible split of TSP withdrawal over 2 years (to lower each year’s taxable income and possibly maximize aid eligibility).
• Ann is concerned about inflated income on FAFSA applications; Jill agrees this is a valid consideration but notes their high income may already preclude significant aid.
• Reminder: Withholding taxes from the withdrawal means Ann must gross up the amount she takes to end up with her target renovation budget.

6. Investment Allocation for the TSP (19:57 – 21:34)

• Ann’s TSP is currently 80/20 stocks to bonds; she feels she's “a wimp.”
• Jill suggests moving toward 70/30, especially since she’ll be withdrawing soon:

  “Because you're close to needing the money, I really think it's worth you battening down a little bit of the risk.” (21:05, Jill)

• Mark (producer) notes the pension's present value acts like fixed income, making Ann’s high equity allocation less risky than it seems.

7. Permission to Enjoy Savings (16:38 – 18:51; 21:34 – 22:24)

• Jill repeatedly grants Ann “permission” to spend her savings for quality-of-life improvements:

  “Give yourself permission. I'm going to give you permission.” (16:38, Jill)
  “This is what it's all about... you got to use it. Mark's like on a one man banging the drum for spending your money. Right Mark?” (21:37, Jill)

• Mark: “That's what it's there for. That's why you saved all those years.” (22:21, Mark)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the pain of spending after a lifetime of saving:

  “We lived our whole lives, our work lives, like, sock away, sock away, sock away. But then it's hard to come back to the other side of that...” (12:07, Jill)

• On giving herself permission for home upgrades:

  “I don't really have any problem with you pulling money out of the retirement account to do the stuff you want to do because you got that big pension... you should do this and enjoy yourself.” (15:50, Jill)

• On the need for emotional flexibility:

  “So much of it is emotional, but because you're close to needing the money, I really think it's worth you battening down a little bit of the risk.” (21:05, Jill)

• Mark on the purpose of saving:

  “That's what it's there for. That's why you saved all those years.” (22:21, Mark)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:38 – Introduction; Ann calls in with her scenario
• 03:23–04:02 – Ann’s job/furlough and family income situation
• 05:26–06:00 – Ann’s savings vehicles and retirement assets detailed
• 07:07–08:59 – Social Security/pension plans, husband’s income, and Ann’s side hustle for 529 funding
• 09:30 – Monthly expenses outlined; strategy during furlough
• 11:07 – Core question introduced: Using TSP for renovations
• 12:07 – Discussion of emotional challenges in spending saved money
• 14:41 – Tax strategy and FAFSA impacts of retirement withdrawals
• 19:57 – Asset allocation debate for TSP (80/20 vs 70/30)
• 21:34–22:24 – Explicit encouragement to enjoy fruits of saving

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Episode Takeaways

• If you have a strong pension, Social Security, and significant retirement savings, it’s reasonable to access retirement funds for major expenses like home renovations, especially if you’re continuing to work.
• Tax planning and timing of withdrawals can smooth income bumps and mitigate financial aid issues, but with high income, aid may be limited anyway.
• Portfolio risk should be adjusted as you approach consumption of those assets.
• It’s emotionally challenging for lifelong savers to transition into spenders, but that's ultimately the point of saving. Give yourself permission to enjoy what you’ve earned.

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For anyone who’s navigating the tension between disciplined saving and enjoying your wealth, this episode is an encouraging, practical guide—filled with warmth, realism, and permission to start living the rewards you’ve earned.

Transcript

[Jill]

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Welcome to the Jill on Money Show. It's Wednesday, November 12th and we are here trying to help you make better. Sometimes it's just less bad or less emotional decisions about your financial life. Now if something is going on, whether it's really good, really bad or you just want to see, are you on track to reach a specific goal? Get in touch with us. Go to our website jillonmoney.com click the contact us button and when you do that a form will pop up. That's the email that we receive. And if you are shy, you don't think you're going to be able to join us on the air live, give us a lot of detail because you know I don't get to ask those.

Nosy follow up questions.

Otherwise check the box if you'd like.

To join us live.

Mark will do everything else. He'll arrange to get you on the air. And sometimes like today when I'm late and I mess things up for him, he curses me. But it really, it's always Mark who's doing all the hard work. I'm messing up the schedule. So Mark, I apologize for that. Now that said, today we are going.

To talk To Ann, who joins us.

From upstate New York. Hello, Ann, how are you?

[Ann]

Hi, Jill. Thanks so much for taking my call today. I've really been looking forward to it.

[Jill]

Amazing. What's going on? How can we help you out?

[Ann]

Well, let's see. So I have sort of the, a little bit of the perfect storm, maybe in a good way. I, I'm 61 years old. I'm a federal employee. I'm eligible to retire, but I'm planning on working through till maybe 68, 60, 70. And I have two kids in high school, so we're saving for college.

[Jill]

Okay, wait a second, Wait. I have a question for you. So you're, are you furloughed right now? Are you? What's going on for you?

[Ann]

I am, I am. Accepted. So I'm working without pay.

[Jill]

Okay. That stinks, right?

[Ann]

Yeah, yeah. Just got the second full paycheck with the zeros from down the line.

[Jill]

Oh, yeah, yeah. What a nightmare. Okay, so you're 61, you're a federal employee. You want to keep working till you're 68. And you, are you married?

[Ann]

Yes, I'm married.

[Jill]

Okay, and does your spouse work?

[Ann]

He works part time. He probably pulls in about 10,000 a year.

[Jill]

Okay, and is he entitled to any pension or anything like that?

[Ann]

He is getting a small pension now. It just started a few months ago and I think it's, I think it's a thousand after taxes.

[Jill]

It's lucky he got that, like a little something coming in while you're working without pay. So at least there's that.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[Jill]

And how old is he?

[Ann]

He's 62.

[Jill]

Okay, got it. And you said the kids are in high school and how old are they?

[Ann]

Fifteen.

[Jill]

Twins.

[Ann]

Yes, I have twins.

[Jill]

Oh, God bless you.

[Ann]

My God.

[Jill]

Okay, and are they both college bound like you say you want to save her, but then you're totally both going to be like, oh yeah, we're going to college.

[Ann]

Yes, yes. I think they're both gung ho for college.

[Jill]

Okay. Have you started doing any saving for college or not?

[Ann]

Yeah, so we have, we have a 529 with a total for both of them at about 40,000 now. But we have a Roth IRA in my husband's name that has about 120,000. And we specifically have been using that as our college savings vehicle. We don't put savings in that anymore, so it's 120 and growing. We now, for the last year and a half, two years have been funding the 529.

[Jill]

Okay, got it. So right now, I mean, before the whole government shutdown, you were putting money into a thrift savings plan, is that right?

[Ann]

Yes.

[Jill]

How much is in that plan?

[Ann]

A million 25,000.

[Jill]

Is it all traditional or is there Roth?

[Ann]

It's almost all traditional. Probably about 20 is the Roth.

[Jill]

Okay, so you've got your husband's Roth, your thrift savings plan. Any other retirement assets that you've saved?

[Ann]

Retirement assets? No.

[Jill]

Okay, so let's keep going then. Do you have some savings or brokerage account assets?

[Ann]

So no brokerage account. That's kind of one of my questions, you know, about whether we kind of need something. But we have probably about 25,000 in a high yield savings account. We probably have about 12,000 in our regular savings. Yeah, that's it.

[Jill]

Okay. And when you retire at your age 68, like seven years from now, you will be entitled to a pension. What will that pension amount be? Do you know?

[Ann]

Yes. So my pension. Well, my pension at 70 would be about 5200 per month.

[Jill]

Oh, wow, that's. Yeah.

[Ann]

With a 50% survivor benefit.

[Jill]

So that's great. And would you will also be entitled to Social Security or not?

[Ann]

Yes, yes, I'll be entitled to Social Security. I think between the two of us, it should be about 6,000 per month.

[Jill]

Okay. In Social Security, he at 70. So you need. He is not. He did not start Social Security, right?

[Ann]

He did, actually. Yep. So he did. But he'll be able to. I think he'll be able to bump up to mine, to taking half of mine. And it kind of. It seemed like the numbers worked out because there's such a disparity between our two incomes. So right now. Yeah, he just started in April, and he gets 680 after taxes.

[Jill]

Okay. So he has this. So he basically has $1,700 a month between pension, Social Security, and then another, you know, the 10 grand a year. So that's kind of like just, you know, good chunk of money that is nice to have coming in. And when you are working full time, when you are receiving your pay, how much are you receiving, ann?

[Ann]

I make 162,000 a year. I get some bonus money, so I get about another 30,000 in bonus. It's. Yeah, it's. It's a little up in the air from year to year, so you kind of have to kind of. It could go away or it could decrease.

[Jill]

So in your current. You know. I know it's just so hard to talk about this, like, when we are thinking about you not getting paid. But normally normal times, when you are actually receiving your Pay and your husband's working part time and there's this small pension and there's the Social Security. Is your cash flow okay? Do you guys feel okay?

[Ann]

Yeah, yeah, I definitely feel like there's plenty coming in. We do fine. I also have been for not quite two years. I have a side job now, so I work part time and I bring in like a little over 30,000.

[Jill]

Wow.

[Ann]

Pre tax. Yeah.

[Jill]

Okay, great.

[Ann]

So that pretty much all of that is going towards the college savings.

[Jill]

So whatever you're making in the side hustle goes to save into the 529. So that's great. Okay.

[Ann]

Yeah, perfect.

[Jill]

Okay. So now once we kind of look ahead, it seems like the big missing piece here is how much do you guys spend in terms of your expenses now? I presume the expenses are sort of high only because you have two kids at home still.

[Ann]

Yes, I think that's it. You know, I'm one of these people that I know that there's plenty of money coming in, but I know where it's all going. And things obviously have increased recently. And I know I have, you know, plenty going towards savings. I think I feel good about that. I think I'm more having trouble. I mean, our monthly spending, I think it's probably maybe 9,000. You know, bare bones is probably 6,000 to keep the life.

[Jill]

Well, now, let's not do that. Bare bones. So 9,000. So in this period of time when you're not getting paid, are you. So you've got your husband, you're also continuing your side hustle. How much money do you think are you going to dip into the high yield savings account to kind of bridge the gap?

[Ann]

Yes, yes. That's what I've done so far. And then kind of using the credit card and then just going to pay it off. Just don't want to use all the cash. Keep it in reserves.

[Jill]

Okay, got it. And hopefully this does get settled and you get your back pay and everything's fine and dandy. So this looks like such a great plan because. All right, so like, big, big picture, you go, you work, you're doing your thing. You work until you're 68. You got a couple of years before you get your pension, before Social Security. But you, you basically are in great shape because you have so much. You will have so much money coming in that will cover your needs right between the pension and the Social Security and all the income. So right now your main focus is the kids, right. The education.

[Ann]

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, making sure that. Yeah, like, I Said I think it's because of where my income is, like, now in particular, we're not counting on a lot of financial aid. Right. So I want to be able to, like, fund it. I really prefer that they don't have loans or significant amount of loans. I think one of my big questions is between now and when I stop working, I would like to be able to spend. I was thinking about spending some of the money we've saved in the tsp. That's our main savings vehicle for things like a couple of, like, smaller upgrades on some things in the home. I would rather not take on more debt to do that. So I was thinking about using, like, kind of, if I continue to work, can I start to enjoy some of the retirement funds to use towards things like that, but not. Not too much. I think that's where I'm having a hard time thinking about spending it, even though I know this.

[Jill]

And because you know what? You are a person of a certain age, of which I am as well. And we lived our whole lives, our work lives, like, sock away, sock away, sock away. But then it's hard to come back to the other side of that and be like, oh, but so, like, it's hard to spend it. I get it. So here is a question that I have for you. The house. Let's talk a little bit about, like, what we're talking. What. What you're talking about. In terms of spending, how much is the house worth?

[Ann]

Probably about 350.

[Jill]

Okay. And is there a mortgage right now?

[Ann]

Yes, I have 3.5% interest, and I have about 130,000 left.

[Jill]

Okay. And when you think about doing some projects and stuff, like, what do you think you have to spend to get the house in a place where you're comfortable?

[Ann]

Well, comfortable. Yeah, comfortable. It would be a little bit more. I mean, I'm just looking at, I mean, maybe 50, 75,000, something like that.

[Jill]

Okay, so you're just. All right, let's even round it up. Like, you need 100 grand. You want to pull 100 grand out of the thrift savings plan to just, like, do the stuff you want to do. And you want to stay in this house, Right? This is going to be the house for a while. I mean, the kids have to get through high school, but you want to stay in this house?

[Ann]

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think it's. It's. Yes, we like the house. We like where we are. We're going to. We don't see ourselves leaving in the next eight years, you know, until the Kids are out of college. If we were going to even leave.

[Jill]

I don't think that there is any problem doing that. I really don't. You have a great, great situation right now because first of all, you're willing to work for seven more years and you know, I think that's huge. So I think what you should do is once again, I wouldn't do it this second, but once, you know, you feel comfortable, like I got my job, things are good again. I wouldn't delay that. I would start making sure that you could, you know, you know, you don't have to do it all at once if you don't want to. But I don't really have any problem. The question really is that if you were to do like, let's say you had all your projects lined up and ready to go, okay, and you're like, jill, it is definitely going to be 100 grand. Like I underestimated, right? The question is like if you pull 100 grand out all at once, then that's all going to. I mean, you're going to basically have all that tax at the 24% bracket, right? And so I wonder if maybe if you even want to take some of the money out the this year because I mean, I don't know how fast you've been through a shutdown before. How fast was it when they paid you back?

[Ann]

Well, last time around it was pretty funny. I don't even really remember. So it must have been fine.

[Jill]

You blocked it out. I mean, so, I mean, you could maybe do half of the money out of the retirement account this year, half next year, like 50 and 50 if you wanted to. Just to kind of keep. Make sure you have like. But you're kind of stuck because I presume that most of this has to come out. You make a lot of money, even though you may not like, you know, between. I don't know if you're going to get the bonus, but it's like 192 plus your 30 grand, plus his part time and the pension. So your top bracket is 24%. You can either decide you want to take it all out at once. You could divide it up 50 and 50 this year, next year, but I would just do that work. There's nothing bad that's going to happen to you by doing that work. You know, if all that money is going in the 529 and you feel a little bit tight or something's going on. I would even like pull back a tiny bit on my retirement contributions because I'm sure you're putting money in there when you are doing that. You know, I would even just say like if your cash flow is hurting or you need some more money for the kids, go just up to the match for the thrift savings plan. I think that's 5% usually, right? In the government.

[Ann]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jill]

You can just go to 5% and make sure your cash flow is even better. But I don't really have a problem with you pulling money out of the retirement account to do the stuff you want to do because you got that big pension and you know, between again, your pension, his pension, two Social Security checks and the fact you want to work long, you should do this and enjoy yourself. Can you give yourself permission? I'm going to give you permission. Let me just check with Mark. Mark, does Ann have permission to do some work on the house?

[Mark]

Yeah, for two reasons you just mentioned. I was going to say the same thing. Obviously the pension and the fact that she wants to keep working, working basically up until the age that she'll get that pension.

[Jill]

Yeah. So I mean, you're in great shape. Give yourself the ability to enjoy it. You have this ability. You've done a great job of saving. You're a hard worker, you know, I don't see any problem with it.

[Ann]

Oh, this is like very exciting. It really is. It's really. Let me just ask you this piece. I was thinking about, if I'm withdrawing it, that I would need to do it this year because if I take it out next year, if my kids are filling out the FAFSA right, my income is going to look gobs higher if I do any of it next year.

[Jill]

I think that is a good point. So if you do it this year again, if you take 100 grand out this year, just know that you really are going to have to sock away some of the money to pay the tax that's due. So maybe that's the case. That's fine. But you're right, I don't know if you're going to get any money. You make good money. Right. And I think the only way, the reason why you might get something is because you have twins. If it were one kid, I don't think you get a lot of money.

[Ann]

Right. If I'm with. So I don't have cash savings someplace else. So basically if I'm taking out, if I took, if I want 100, I have to take more than that in order to get the hundred right. Because they're withdrawing the taxes and you don't see a problem with that? No.

[Jill]

Why?

[Ann]

Okay.

[Jill]

Do you see a problem? I don't see a problem. Again, you have this money. If you didn't have a pension, I would never give you this advice. I would never say that. But you have this huge pension and you're willing to work. I mean, honestly, if you were really worried about it and you're still working and like you're 68 and you're like, no, I might, you know, both of my kids went to graduate school, so keep working. Big deal. I mean, you are in great shape and you know, at some point you'll stop having, you know, two jobs and you know, the kids will be in college. Maybe you can like chill out a little bit. But if the side hustle that 30,000 pre tax, if. Is that something that like, you think could be more than that, great. But you won't need that. That's just like a funding vehicle more. That's a. That stream of income is just going to fund the kids. And taking this money out to do this work is to me like, so. It's so doable and it will not derail your plans. It might screw up your FAFSA if they go back one more year. I don't think so. I think next year is your reference year. They're freshmen, right? This year, right?

[Ann]

Yeah, yeah, I know. They're sophomores. They're sophomores.

[Jill]

Oh, they're sophomores.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[Jill]

When do they look at that. I don't know how far back they go.

[Ann]

I think it's two years. So. Right. If they graduate 2028, I think they go back to 2023.

[Jill]

I mean, so. Okay. So really, really, if you can like give yourself permission, it's not going to be a problem. Take out the extra money you need and just do me a favor, just be a tiny bit careful about the, the credit card stuff, you know, if that. I don't want that to get out of hand too much. So you can, you know, you have savings. Hopefully, you know, you've got 25 left. Hopefully. Let's say this is, you know, a couple more weeks. But you know, it's okay to use the savings account. It really is. And if you really, if you, if this went on for like months, then you would be taking more money out of the thrift savings plan to live and that's what you would do, right?

[Ann]

Okay, yeah, yeah, that's our plan. I think, you know, we've been comfortable for this month and we don't have any other credit card debt.

[Jill]

Good. All right, I'm ready I'm ready to dismiss you. And you're ready to go call contractors, right?

[Ann]

I am. Can I ask you one last question?

[Jill]

Sure.

[Ann]

Okay. I have my. The tsp. I have it. It's about 8020 stocks to bonds. Because I know I'm going to be working a lot longer. Any issues you see there, I mean, I'm a wimp.

[Jill]

I would never be 8020 because I am a wimp. I cannot take it. I probably would look more at 70 30, given the fact that you might be pulling some money out. And by the way, what I would do is if you are going to pull that money out and you're going to do it this year, immediately take the money out. And then at the same time, maybe I would go to 70, 30. Mark, would you go 7030 if you're Ann, Even though she's got an iron stomach and can take on risk, I.

[Mark]

Mean, if she can live with it. Doesn't really bother me just because I know there's the pension. If there wasn't a pension, I would say get a lot more conservative. The pension kind of offsets that a little bit.

[Jill]

Right. It's almost like fixed income. The pension itself, the present value of that pension is almost like the fixed income. So if you're okay with it, Mark's okay with it. I'm just a wimp.

[Ann]

Okay. But you would say maybe 70, 30, like, might be a little bit. I mean, I'm not. I don't have that iron of a stomach. So I've been thinking about changing it.

[Jill]

All right, if that's. If that's the way it is, don't worry about it. And, you know, I do think that it's worth it for you to have some sane, like, easygoing way to say to your. Yourself, like, okay, I can count on this. Even if it goes down, it's going to stink, but I can still get through it. And, you know, it's just one of those things that, you know is so much of it is emotional, but because you're close to needing the money, I really think it's worth you battening down a little bit of the risk.

[Ann]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

[Jill]

We're so happy for you and I hope you get paid soon. So, hey, listen, if you are out there and you're listening and you are in a situation where maybe it's not even that you have. You're a federal worker, but maybe you're any worker and you're nervous about what happens next and how you actually are going to Navigate if something bad happened to you or maybe you're in just like, want to know that if something good happened, that you could have a lot of options, like redo your house or do the things you want to do. Sometimes you save all this money for so long and, you know, you don't give yourself permission to actually use it. Come on, man, you got to use it. This is what it's all about. Mark's like on a one man banging the drum for spending your money. Right, Mark?

[Mark]

That's what it's there for. That's why you saved all those years.

[Jill]

Yeah, don't worry about it. Mark's not going to send his kid. No, you're going to. You will. You're going to be the kind of person once you have, like, everything with the kids set up, you guys are not going to have problems spending your money. You're not, right?

[Mark]

No, absolutely not.

[Jill]

I don't think either of you is programmed that way. All right, so if you're having problems, problems figuring out how to turn the spigot on, get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com, click the contact us button, write us a note, and if you'd like to join us live, check the box. Mark will do everything else. Hey, while you're on the website, sign up for the free weekly newsletter. And of course, you can subscribe to us on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your favorite podcast. Try to lift someone up. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

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[Von Miller]

What's up, world is Von Miller, super bowl mvp, chicken farmer, and now host of Free Range. This is a show where I go off the field and off the script. We're talking what's hot in music, film, trending news, and everything blowing up your feet. If you love football, you'll feel at home. But if you're here for the vibes, the Internet deep dives the conversation. This is your podcast. Join me every Wednesday. Follow and listen to Free Range with me, Von Miller. Everywhere you get your podcast.