Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Episode: The Secrets of Perfect Timing – Part Two
Date: January 2, 2026
Guest: Daniel Pink, author of "When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing"

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jill Schlesinger continues her insightful conversation with best-selling author Daniel Pink. Building on Part One, they explore how "perfect timing" can be scientifically understood and harnessed for daily activities, habit formation, goal setting, and overall well-being. The discussion weaves practical advice and evidence-based suggestions—delivered with wit and personal anecdotes—covering everything from optimal gym routines to how life’s endings and new beginnings affect our motivation and happiness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Best Time to Exercise: Goal-Driven Choices

[02:08 – 06:07]

• Morning Exercise:

  • Good for habit formation (less likely to be interrupted early in the day)
  • Slightly more beneficial for weight loss, though Pink notes: "Weight loss is really hard... it's diet, sorry guys, you gotta shut your mouth." (Dan Pink, 03:00; Jill, 03:01)
  • Provides a mood boost that “can last 10 hours...if you exercise in the morning, you get that mood boost all the way through the day.” (Dan Pink, 03:17)

• Afternoon/Evening Exercise:

  • Better for performance: higher body temperature, increased lung capacity, stronger hand-eye coordination, and more world records are set between 4–7 p.m.
  • Lower injury risk due to being “literally more warmed up.”
  • People often report greater enjoyment during late-day workouts.

• Individual Preferences:

  • Choose based on your schedule, mood needs, and habit formation.
  • "One is not better than the other...for me, since I'm a lark, I actually don't like exercising in the morning because I like doing my work then." (Dan Pink, 04:45)

2. Nap Basics and the “Nappuccino”

[06:11 – 09:35]

• Short Naps Work Best:

  • “The best naps are extremely short, between 10 and 20 minutes long.” (Dan Pink, 07:01)
  • Avoid sleep inertia by not exceeding 20 minutes.
  • Napping increases mental acuity and physical energy.

• The Nap + Caffeine Hack (“Nappuccino”):

  • Drink a cup of coffee right before napping.
  • Set a timer for 25 minutes, with noise-cancelling headphones.
  • Fall asleep in about 10 minutes, nap for 15, and wake as caffeine enters the bloodstream.
  • "At that moment that I'm waking up...I get this other boom, this boost of caffeine right there. And that's why it's called a nappuccino." (Dan Pink, 09:22)

3. Temporal Landmarks & Fresh Start Effect

[09:38 – 13:44]

• Why Dates Matter for Goal Setting:

  • Social and personal “temporal landmarks” (e.g., New Year’s Day, birthdays, new semesters) act as psychological cues for fresh starts.
  • “They trigger this very peculiar form of mental accounting...we essentially open up a fresh ledger on ourselves.” (Dan Pink, 10:12)
  • Fresh starts provide motivation and help break from ‘old self’ patterns.
  • Mondays, first of the month, or significant anniversaries are optimal for launching new habits.

• Notable Research:

  • "There’s some great research on what’s called the fresh start effect...certain dates are fresh start dates. We're more likely to start behavior change and therefore more likely to have a fighting chance of continuing it." (Dan Pink, 12:09)

4. The U-Shaped Curve of Well-Being in Midlife

[13:45 – 20:05]

• Debunking the “Midlife Crisis”:

  • No scientific evidence for a classic midlife crisis.
  • There is, however, a "U-shaped curve of well-being": well-being dips in midlife, then rises again later.
  • "The bottom doesn't fall out, but there's a dip...Has been found in something like 70 countries." (Dan Pink, 14:15)

• Reasons for the Dip:

  • Possibly due to unmet expectations or life transitions (e.g., kids leaving home, career plateau).
  • "What researchers call a U-shaped curve of well-being…It’s an international phenomenon." (Dan Pink, 14:29)

• Navigating the Trough:

  • Practice gratitude; reflect on “mental subtraction of positive events”—imagining life without key good things to boost appreciation.
  • “If you're at the bottom of this U-shaped curve...you got nothing but up.” (Dan Pink, 18:47)

• Advice for Organizations:

  • Suggests instituting midcareer mentoring—support isn’t only for young workers, but valuable for those at a career midpoint.

5. Happiness, Aging, and Social Connections

[20:05 – 22:58]

• Late Life: Fewer, Deeper Friendships:

  • As people age, friendships decrease in quantity but increase in depth.
  • The most meaningful social bonds remain or grow—a source of post-midlife happiness.

• The Harvard Grant Study:

  • "At the center of it all is, do you have people you love and do you have people who love you? That's it." (Dan Pink, 22:44)
  • Professional achievement and money matter much less than strong, loving relationships.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Weight Loss & Exercise:
  “Weight loss is really hard...it's diet, sorry guys, you gotta shut your mouth.”
  – Jill Schlesinger, [03:00]

• On Sleep and Mood:
  “Exercise...gives us a mood boost and a pretty enduring mood boost. 10 hours sometimes. And so if you exercise in the morning, you get that mood boost all the way through the day.”
  – Dan Pink, [03:17]

• On “Nappuccino”:
  “Caffeine takes about 25 minutes to get into our bloodstream. So at that moment that I'm waking up...I get this other boom, this boost of caffeine right there. And that's why it's called a nappuccino.”
  – Dan Pink, [09:22]

• On Fresh Starts:
  “We essentially open up a fresh ledger on ourselves the way that a small business 80 years ago would open up a fresh ledger on a new quarter or a new year. You basically say, old me had a drink every day. New me, reborn on the first day of January, is going to be dry for the next 30 days.”
  – Dan Pink, [11:16]

• On Midlife Well-Being:
  “There is no evidence of a midlife crisis…But something else more interesting happens in midlife: a U-shaped curve of well-being.”
  – Dan Pink, [14:10]

• On Aging & Happiness:
  “At the center of it all is, do you have people you love and do you have people who love you?”
  – Dan Pink, [22:44]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Optimal Timing for Exercise: [02:08–06:07]
• Nap Strategies & “Nappuccino”: [06:46–09:35]
• Temporal Landmarks & Resolutions: [09:38–13:44]
• Midlife Well-Being / U-Shaped Curve: [13:45–20:05]
• Aging, Friendship, and Lasting Happiness: [20:05–22:58]

Tone & Takeaway

Jill and Dan’s exchange is breezy, smart, and loaded with real-life humor—grounding science in relatable experience. Their key message: meaningful change is most successful when you tune into your body’s natural rhythms, use social and personal fresh starts to reset behaviors, and value deeper connections at every life stage.

For listeners seeking actionable tips on building habits, boosting happiness, and understanding the science of timing, this episode is rich with guidance and memorable wisdom.