Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Episode: The Way of Excellence With Brad Stulberg

Date: January 30, 2026
Guest: Brad Stulberg, bestselling author of "The Way of Excellence"
Host: Jill Schlesinger

Overview

In this thoughtful and practical episode, Jill Schlesinger welcomes back renowned author Brad Stulberg to discuss his latest book, "The Way of Excellence." Together, they break down what true excellence means, how it differs from surface-level hustle culture, and the critical role of meaning, consistency, rest, and community in building an "excellent" life. The conversation is candid and insightful, offering listeners accessible advice on moving from burnout or distraction to a more fulfilling and sustainable pursuit of greatness—on your own terms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining True Excellence

• The Problem with Modern Hustle Culture:
  Brad highlights that many people feel "numbed" or like they're just "going through the motions" in life and work, experiencing burnout not just from overwork, but from a lack of meaning. (04:22)
• Excellence Isn't Extremes:
  Brad pushes back against Instagram-style "pseudo-excellence," describing real greatness as a "heartfelt, genuine pursuit of caring deeply about a craft," with both external success and internal fulfillment at its core. (05:48)

  "So many people now hear the term ['excellence'] and they're like, 'ah, that's not for me, I can’t do that…' A big part of this project was reclaiming excellence... for what it actually is.” (05:44, Brad Stulberg)

Distinguishing Flow, Happiness, and Excellence

• Flow vs. Excellence:
  Flow is about the acute moment—being "in the zone." Excellence, by contrast, is the "long game," built on habits and values that align with your purpose, not just fleeting high points. (06:59)

  “Excellence also encompasses all of the monotonous, tedious fundamentals that you do when no one’s looking…that then gives birth to those moments of flow.” (07:26, Brad Stulberg)

• Meaning Over Pleasure:
  Jill reflects on how her career shifted from short-term achievements to lasting fulfillment through deeper connections with her audience. (08:00)

The Role of Intimacy, Connection, and Feeling

• Intimacy In Excellence:
  True excellence requires intimacy—not just with people, but with your craft, your work, and yourself. Brad argues that falling in love with an activity is crucial; distraction erodes excellence. (15:08)

  “To be great at something, you have to fall in love with a craft. And…so much of that aliveness we’re lacking, it’s because we’ve lost sources of intimacy in our lives.” (15:28, Brad Stulberg)

• Fighting Distraction:
  Modern culture is set up to erode attention. Creating space for deep work and play requires intentional blocking of time, and resisting “the pacifier” of our devices. (17:54)

  “Your calendar is a moral document in many ways because it shows exactly what you're prioritizing and what you stand for.” (18:53, Brad Stulberg)

Fit, Grit, and Knowing When to Quit

• Fit and Grit:
  Many high-achievers overvalue grit (“pushing through no matter what”) and undervalue fit (“is this the right thing for me to push on?”). The grace to quit things that don’t fit is essential to achieving excellence. (20:23)

  “If we don't have fit…and we dig in with grit, we're just going to be banging up against a wall that we're never going to get over because it's the wrong wall to climb in the first place.” (20:56, Brad Stulberg)

The Power of Consistency Over Intensity

• Small Steps, Sustained Over Time:
  Brad debunks the myth of “heroic” efforts, highlighting that consistency—showing up and putting in effort even on bad days—yields much greater results than periodic sprints. This is echoed in financial investing and in building any craft. (25:18)

  “It's generally more important to prioritize consistency over intensity. The goal is not a heroic day…The goal is a heroic body of work.” (25:40, Brad Stulberg)

The Critical Importance of Rest and Renewal

• Stress + Rest = Growth:
  Excellence is built not only on effort, but on strategic rest—mirroring how muscles grow. The brain works the same way: breakthrough insights often arrive after stepping away. Stulberg and Jill share stories of “aha” moments happening only after rest. (28:23)

  “If you don't have rest and renewal, you don't really grow from the challenge.” (30:31, Brad Stulberg)

• Permission to Pause:
  Stulberg suggests listeners let go of guilt around rest—true high achievers integrate renewal as part of the excellence cycle. (29:08)

Embracing Failure and Resilience

• The 48-Hour Rule:
  Failure is inevitable when aiming for excellence. Brad recommends allowing yourself time (48 hours, or whatever's suitable for the context) to fully process both failure and success, but then getting back to the work to avoid stagnation. (32:08)

  “You should say, all right, like, I'm pushing myself. I'm on the path of excellence. Of course this is going to happen…then force yourself to get back to doing the actual work itself.” (32:53, Brad Stulberg)

• Self-Kindness Matters:
  Jill and Brad discuss the need for compassion toward yourself during setbacks, and warn about the dangers of “pity pots” and sitting in victimhood or arrogance too long. (35:15)

The Central Role of Community

• You Can't (and Shouldn't) Go It Alone:
  Excellence flourishes alongside the right people—whether that’s workplace teams, support networks, or communities of listeners like Jill’s. Isolation isn’t heroic; it’s usually a liability. (37:12)

  “Why on earth would anyone [try to climb Mount Everest alone] when…the latter [doing it together] is an option?” (37:52, Brad Stulberg)

• Shared Effort Brings Joy:
  Building community not only supports achievement but fundamentally enhances joy and satisfaction along the journey. (38:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On burnout’s real source:
  “There’s this other kind of burnout that I think is actually just as common, if not more insidious. And that’s burning out from not doing enough of what makes you feel alive.” (04:55, Brad Stulberg)

• On faulty ideas of excellence:
  “People have come to think that excellence means waking up at 3 in the morning, filming yourself flexing your six pack abs from a cold plunge…and that is so far from what actual elite performers do.” (05:14, Brad Stulberg)

• On the defining feeling of excellence:
  “When they’re at their best…none of them told me what they were thinking. They all told me what they were feeling.” (13:46, Brad Stulberg)

• On the trap of “pseudo-excellence”:
  “So often people just think about the peak of the mountain…But you spend all your time and energy on the side…So it’s really important to ask yourself, am I climbing the right mountain?” (09:17, Brad Stulberg)

• On intimacy and distraction:
  “The entire modern culture is set up to alienate us, to create a distance and distraction between what we’re doing and between ourselves.” (15:47, Brad Stulberg)

• On consistency:
  “The people who really create wealth and progress, it's just little by little over long periods of time becomes a lot.” (26:57, Brad Stulberg)

• On rest’s necessity:
  “The way that you make a muscle…Bigger is you stress it in an appropriate dose and then you give it time to rest and recover and adapt, and then it gets stronger.” (28:34, Brad Stulberg)

• On the value of community:
  “If you're going to try to climb Mount Everest, the actual mountain or a metaphorical Mount Everest…you got two options…Angry, miserable and resentful and try to climb it alone and likely fail, or…find the right climbing partners and have a hell of a time…” (37:27, Brad Stulberg)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:57] Why excellence is urgently needed now
• [04:55] Zombie burnout and the real definition of excellence
• [06:59] The difference between flow and excellence
• [10:30] Am I climbing the right mountain?
• [12:22] Feeling versus thinking in the pursuit of excellence
• [15:08] Excellence requires intimacy
• [17:54] Practical strategies for fighting distraction
• [20:23] The interplay of fit, grit, and when to quit
• [25:18] Consistency over intensity
• [28:23] Rest and renewal in building excellence
• [32:08] Dealing with failure (the 48-hour rule)
• [35:15] Arrogance, pity, and the realities of success and failure
• [37:12] The power of community

Tone & Style

• Friendly, conversational, and deeply practical with frank stories and self-deprecating humor.
• Brad brings research-backed, clear-eyed wisdom without jargon, while Jill shares her lived-experience and listener focus.
• Both urge listeners to redefine excellence for themselves—batching together flexibility, discipline, self-compassion, and collaboration.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Re-examine your understanding of excellence.
• Prioritize meaningful consistency, not Instagrammable intensity.
• Build systems and habits that intentionally support focus, rest and renewal.
• Permit yourself to quit what doesn't fit and double-down on what does.
• Give yourself compassion through failures and setbacks.
• Connect and build community—excellence is a team sport.

For more, check out Brad Stulberg’s book [“The Way of Excellence”], and visit jillonmoney.com for advice and community.