What Is a Safe Withdrawal Rate?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What Is a Safe Withdrawal Rate?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger
• Host/Author: Audacy
• Description: Host Jill Schlesinger, CFP®, addresses challenging and sometimes controversial financial and investing topics in plain language. Each week, Jill engages with listener calls and interviews guests to provide surprising insights and actionable advice to help listeners make the most of their money.
• Episode: What Is a Safe Withdrawal Rate?
• Release Date: June 17, 2025

---

Introduction to the Episode

The episode begins with Jill Schlesinger discussing the current economic climate and the upcoming Federal Reserve policy meeting scheduled for June 17, 2025.

Key Points:

• Federal Reserve Policy Meeting: Jill notes the anticipation surrounding the two-day Fed meeting, expressing uncertainty about potential rate cuts. She mentions a slowing economy but does not expect immediate changes in rate policies.

  "I really don't think they're gonna do anything... Maybe they should. I don't know." (02:30)

• Promotion of Financial Services: Jill encourages listeners to reach out for personalized financial advice through her website, jillonmoney.com, and highlights the "Money Watch" sister broadcast for deeper financial insights.

Main Topic: Safe Withdrawal Rate

The core of the episode centers on determining a safe withdrawal rate for retirement, sparked by listener emails seeking personalized advice.

Listener Question from Charles

Charles's Inquiry:

• Age: 65
• Situation: Retiring with children, concerned about maximizing retirement spending.
• Question: What is considered a safe withdrawal rate, given his more conservative stance compared to the standard 4% rule?

Jill's Response:

• Standard 4% Rule: Jill acknowledges the historical success of the 4% withdrawal rate but suggests a more conservative approach might be prudent for some.

  "I'm a little bit more conservative. That said, the 4% has worked very well." (05:15)

• Adjusting Withdrawals: She advises flexibly adjusting the withdrawal rate based on annual market performance—taking 4% in good years and reducing to 3.5% in down years to maximize longevity.

  "Maybe in a down year you take a little bit less, maybe take three and a half percent." (05:45)

• Personal Comfort: Emphasizes the importance of aligning withdrawal strategies with personal comfort levels and financial goals.

  "I like when people live nice and big and, you know, within their means." (06:30)

Listener Story from Jan

Jan's Situation:

• Retirement: Jan is retired with a state pension of $79,000, which exceeds her expenses.
• Assets: Owns two multifamily properties valued at $2.2 million (one paid off, the other with a $233,000 mortgage).
• Investment: Holds a traditional 457 plan worth $675,000.
• Concern: Tax implications for her children inheriting her accounts, considering required minimum distributions (RMDs).

Jill's Advice:

• Roth Conversion: Jill discusses the potential benefits and considerations of converting traditional accounts to Roth, emphasizing the importance of having separate funds to pay taxes.

  "So if you choose 3 1/2% as a safe withdrawal rate and I end up with a little bit more money, fine." (07:20)

  "It’s not such a big deal... they can use more conservative numbers." (08:10)

• Tax Strategies: She suggests pulling money from accounts to cover taxes if there aren't sufficient separate funds, and reassures that converting to a Roth might not be necessary unless there are substantial funds available.

  "But I like when people live nice and big and, you know, within their means, of course." (09:00)

Listener Question from David

David's Inquiry:

• Current Position: Federal employee in Washington D.C. with six years of military experience.
• Concern: Considering leaving his well-paying federal job due to political uncertainties and seeking advice on transitioning without a degree.

Jill's Response:

• Comparative Analysis: Jill advises David to compare private sector jobs directly with his current role, considering both salary and pension benefits.

  "Look around and one way to look at the difference between the pay and the pension is to try to compare apples to apples." (10:00)

• Private Sector Opportunities: She highlights that federal employees often find higher salaries in the private sector but lose pension benefits, suggesting a thorough evaluation of total compensation.

  "A lot of federal employees... they'll make more money in salary, but they'll lose that pension benefit." (10:45)

• Personal Consultation: Encourages David to reach out for a detailed discussion to explore his specific situation further.

  "I'd really like to talk this through." (11:20)

Appreciation and Testimonial from Ralph

Towards the end of the episode, Jill and her co-host Mark receive a heartfelt testimonial from Ralph, a seasoned financial advisor.

Ralph's Testimonial:

• Impact on Practice: Ralph expresses how the "Jill on Money" podcast has significantly enhanced his professional skills by using caller interactions as case studies.

  "Your questioning technique has become a model for my own client interactions." (12:00)

• Personal Gratitude: He commends Jill and Mark for their empathetic and insightful approach to financial planning, which has deepened his understanding of the human aspects of the profession.

  "Your work makes a real difference in how we serve our clients and approach this important work with deep appreciation." (13:00)

Hosts' Response:

• Jill and Mark's Reaction: Both hosts express their gratitude and emotional response to Ralph's kind words, highlighting the rewarding nature of their work.

  "It speaks to a million different things, but it's why I love doing this show so much." (13:08)

  "Ralphie put me on the payroll, man." (13:04)

Conclusion

Jill wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of community and support among listeners. She encourages ongoing engagement through questions and participation in future shows.

"If you've got a question and you would like to join us on the air, just go to Jill on money dot com, click the contact us button, and if you want to join us, check the box." (14:20)

She also promotes additional resources available on their website, including other podcasts, radio shows, videos, and a weekly newsletter curated by Mark.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "I'm a little bit more conservative. That said, the 4% has worked very well." — Jill Schlesinger (05:15)
• "Your questioning technique has become a model for my own client interactions." — Ralph (12:00)

Key Takeaways:

• The standard 4% withdrawal rate is generally effective but may be adjusted based on individual comfort and market conditions.
• Personalized financial strategies are crucial, especially when considering factors like inheritance, taxes, and pension benefits.
• Transitioning careers from the federal sector to private industry requires a careful comparison of total compensation, including pensions.
• Community feedback and testimonials highlight the real-world impact of financial advice and the importance of empathetic client interactions.

For More Information:

• Visit jillonmoney.com to connect with Jill and access additional financial resources.
• Subscribe to the "Money Watch" podcast for deeper dives into financial planning topics.

Transcript

[Jill Schlesinger]

Buying a home in California can certainly feel intimidating. We hear from listeners all the time throughout the state, and they want to know, where can they even start? Many of them find that turning to a Realtor changed everything. Realtors can help buyers understand what they can afford. They can explain all of the steps that are involved in purchasing a home, and they can walk you through every detail, from making an offer to closing the deal. Working with a Realtor can help help you feel less alone or unsure about the process and that peace of mind that is the power of having a Realtor by your side. Whether you're ready to move or just starting to dream, don't go it alone. Don't let what you don't know stop you from starting your next chapter. Find your [e-mail] that's championsofhome.com when investing.

[Mark]

Your money starts to feel like a second job, betterment steps in with a little work life balance. It's the automated investing and savings app that handles the work so you don't have to. While they build and manage your portfolio, you build and manage your weekend plans. While they make it easy to invest for what matters, you just get to enjoy what matters. Their automated tools simplify the complex and put your money to work optimizing day after day and again and again. So go ahead, take your time to rest and recharge. Because while your money doesn't need a work life balance, you do make your money hustle with Betterment. Get [e-mail] that's B E T T E R M e n t.com Investing involves risk performance not guaranteed.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Welcome to the Jill on Money show. It's Tuesday, June 17th. I you have this circled in your calendar. It's the first day of the two day fed policy meeting where they're gonna meet. I don't think they're gonna do anything. I really don't. I'm not even sure they're gonna do anything for the rest of the year. But anyway, they may. Maybe they should. I don't know. Seems like the economy's kind of slowing down some but so far have not gotten any indication that they are going to cut rates at this meeting. We'll let you know if that is different different outcome than what we expect. In the meantime, if you have a financial matter that needs some attention, maybe you need an extra set of ears and eyes on a situation. Get in touch with us. Go to jillonmoney.com and click the Contact Us button. And if you'd like to Join us live. Just check the box. By the way, I want to point out that in our sister broadcast known as the Money Watch show, we did a great segment on how to select a. A financial advisor and to know whether or not you should need to do so. We did that over the weekend on Saturday. And if you're not a subscriber to Money Watch, you should be in the program. We do answer financial questions, but we also concentrate on some of the core aspects of building your financial life. So we try to go a little bit deeper on topics than we might do in this program. So that said, check it out. The Money Watch podcast, it drops on Saturdays and Sundays and you should subscribe, subscribe to it. And at the very least, make sure you listen to that episode from this past weekend, because I thought it was a very good one. Okay, let's do some emails. The first one is from Charles, who wants to know, what do you consider a safe withdrawal rate for a couple retiring at age 65? I get the impression you're more conservative than the standard 4%. I have kids, but my main concern is maximizing my spending over my retirement. You know, Charles, you're right. I'm a little bit more conservative. That said, the 4% has worked very well. If you back test it, it really has. One way that you can maximize your spending, though, is you can use 4%. You might be able to do that in a good year. And you say, I'm going to take 4% in a good year, but maybe in a down year you take a little bit less, maybe take three and a half percent. So I don't know how much money you have because maybe the 4% is even silly because you have so much money. It just doesn't matter. But I'm a wimp. I'm totally, totally a wimp. So if I choose 3 1/2% as a safe withdrawal rate and I end up with a little bit more money, fine. I think it's also good to know yourself. I love that you said you know, you have kids, but that's not like your main concern. I think that's an important note, gang, because if you have children and all you want to do is leave them as much money as possible. I'm not a parent. I would never choose that. I tell my mother to spend her money every day. I think that if that's your main concern, then you can use more conservative numbers and, you know, if they end up with more money, then that's the good outcome for you. But I like when people Live nice and big and, you know, within their means, of course. Jan says, you ready for this? Mark? I love, love, love your podcast and listen every day. This is, this is my people. This is my tribe. You guys, I love you. Jan71, she's retired. She has a state pension of $79,000, which more than covers her expenses. Oh, Mark, just a little side note, I ran into a woman who I will like to call my very favorite farmer in the world. She's literally a farmer. Okay. She says when she listens to the podcast, because she lives in a high cost of living area, she cannot imagine people who are able to live fine on seven or $8,000 a month. She's like, where do they live? I can't. I said, I know, it's just a different area. It's okay. But that's why when you hear about these numbers, gang, we don't judge them. We just listen to what you're saying. If your numbers are 15 or 20 or $30,000 a month, that's your number. And we figure out if you can cover it. In the case of Jan, her state pension, 79 grand more than covers her expenses. She has two self sufficient, financially independent children. Amen to that. Oh, yeah. Amen to that is right. Jan. Jan owns two multifamily properties and they're valued at $2.2 million. One is paid for and the other one, which is worth $1.5 million, has a $233,000 mortgage and she lives in the $1.5 million house. Okay. She says, I've got a 457 plan. It's traditional $675,000. The money will be left to my children along with the properties and other accounts. I'm in the 24% federal tax bracket, and it just dawned on me, duh. How much taxes my children will have to pay and that they're going to need to empty Those accounts within 10 years of inheriting them. That's true. So is converting to a Roth a good idea? And at what intervals and amounts, given my age and need for required minimum distributions in two years. I'm sorry I'm late to the party. The alternative is to take the RMDs and put it in high yield accounts minus taxes, and, and have those accounts transfer on death accounts. Okay. First of all, no problems here and nothing to worry about. Everything's great, right? One thing that you could do is, you know, if you're, I don't know how far up the 24% bracket you are so you could convert the money. I just don't know if you have other accounts that could pay the tax that's due. So you didn't mention that you had some big slug of money in cash or some money in a brokerage account, you know, a savings account or CDs. Let's say for argument that you don't have the cash to pay the tax. In that case you can just take money out of that account. And you're absolutely right. Take, you don't have to take RMDs. You can take even more than the RMDs and try to stay inside that 24% bracket which is if you're single this year up to $197,300. If your kids are in a higher tax bracket than you, maybe your kids are so financially independent and self sufficient that they are like making a ton of money. Maybe you even go up into the 32% bracket, maybe you pull more money out than your RMDs but it won't matter either way. It's fine. I don't think you should convert unless we have a lot of money sitting aside and you didn't mention that. So I'm going to say you can just pull the money out. They'll inherit the money and they'll pay the tax on it. It's not such a big deal. Okay, if you've got a follow up question, let us know. Okay, thank you Jan. David writes, I'm currently in a federal position in Washington D.C. and so he says I don't have a degree but I had six years experience in the military prior to this current job. I've been in the role since 23. The pay is great but with all the drama that has come with the new regime, presidential regime, I believe that it is smart to start weighing my options. How would you recommend I go about this? Since I currently do not have a degree and I feel like I'm like I'm making more than most people with no degree. How can I compare jobs with no pension to my current. My only work experience is in the military and then my current role. So I just don't have any real idea where I stand. Thank you in advance. Well David, couple of things. One thing to consider is that if you are really freaked out by the drama then you look around and one way to look at the difference between the pay and the pension is to try to compare apples to apples. So go out there, look at a job that you think you could get and then write us back and then we can give you an idea about this. I mean, obviously the pay is easy. Usually you say you've got the pay is great in your current job and that you wouldn't make as much money in the private sector. That's very different for most federal employees. A lot of federal employees, what they find is that they go into the private sector, they'll make more money in salary, but they'll lose that pension benefit. But considering you are in the military, I presume you already have a pension. And maybe we could find you a different job where you don't have to worry so much about the pay differential or the pension. So if you get back in touch with us, David, I'd really like to talk this through. I feel so bad for these people. It's like I like my job and now I'm freaked out by this whole thing. So, anyway, okay. This is from Ralph, who says thank you for your invaluable impact on my practice as a financial advisor. Oh, boy. I love this, Mark. I love when you do this. Okay. Dear Jill, I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing to express my sincere gratitude for the tremendous impact you and Mark have had on my development as a financial advisor through the Jill on Money podcast. How about that, Mark? Thank you. Let me continue because I'd like to end on a high note here. As a practicing financial advisor for more than 20 years, I've found your show to be an invaluable professional development tool. I regularly use your caller interactions as case studies, working through each scenario myself before hearing your recommendations. This practice has significantly enhanced enhance my financial planning acumen and help me think through complex situations from multiple angles. This is so nice, Mark. I'm going to cry. I need this today. What strikes me most is your exceptional ability to ask thoughtful, probing questions that get to the heart of each caller's situation. Your questioning technique has become a model for my own client interactions, helping me develop better skills in drawing out the information needed to provide comprehensive guidance. The way you listen with genuine empathy while maintaining professional insight is truly masterful. Your approach to I love this guy so much. He's my favorite person today. Your approach to helping people navigate their financial challenges is both earnest and sincere, which creates an environment where callers feel comfortable sharing their most pressing concerns. Observing how you guide people through difficult circumstances, from retirement planning to debt management to family financial dynamics, has given me deeper insight into the human side of financial planning that goes far beyond numbers and calculations. The discourse between you and Mark provides a rich learning experience that helps me Understand different perspectives and approaches to financial problem solving. Your combined expertise, delivered with such kindness and thoughtfulness, serves as a continuous reminder of why this profession is so meaningful. Thank you for the dedication you bring to helping both your listeners and fellow professionals like myself. Your work makes a real difference in how we serve our clients and approach this important work with deep appreciation. Ralph.

[Mark]

Ralphie put me on the payroll, man.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Wow. I mean, that is so awesome. I mean, it really is. It speaks to a million different things, but it's why I love doing this show so much, because you never know who's listening. I really do believe that and I think that for. For me personally, after being in this business, and really, I do love the business. It's just that, you know, I didn't want to be a financial advisor anymore. This gives me such a nice way to work through problems with you guys and to bring some expertise to it without selling a product or a service or anything. Just talking to you. So, Mark, hooray for us.

[Mark]

I mean, it's. You know that Ralph actually sat down and took the time to write a note like this. It's incredible. You know, that's what it's all about.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It really. It really is. By the way, I'm looking at his website, cuz of course I. Like, I already did.

[Mark]

He's a. He's in Pennsylvania.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, he's a. He's in Pennsylvania. And he. It's very nice. It really means a ton to us that you did take the time and that we're touching people every day and we don't take that for granted. So g. Listen to Ralph and listen to us. And you know, it is a. It is a real gift for us to do this show. I know I say that. I don't mean to sound goofy. It's the truth, Mark. What do I complain about? Not this show. What do I complain about?

[Mark]

Not this show, but just about everything else?

[Jill Schlesinger]

No, not even the other shows. Not about radio. Not about the other podcast, money, watch, other things, perhaps this. No. So thank you, Ralph, for reminding us how much we love this show. Thank you all for always being there for us and for being our cheerleader. So we appreciate that. If you've got a question and you would like to join us on the air, just go to Jill on money dot com, click the contact us button, and if you want to join us, check the box. Mark will do everything else. Don't forget, we've got all of our content that lives on the website. There is another podcast, There is a radio show. There are videos. There are resources. There's of course the free weekly newsletter which comes out every Friday. Mark does an amazing job with that. So Ralph lifted us up today. See that, like what a well thought out message and how nice that was. It makes a difference. It made a difference for us and we'd like you to pay that forward to someone else. So lift someone up in your life. Change your work, change your wealth, change your life. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Emma Greed]

When you're with Amex Business Platinum, going the extra mile for your business pays off. With five times membership rewards, points on flights and prepaid hotels booked through amextravel.com, you can earn more points to help grow your business. And with access to more than 1,400 lounges globally through the American Express Global Lounge Collection, including the Centurion Lounge.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Can I get you a refill?

[Emma Greed]

You can stay fresh wherever you your business travel takes you. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@american express.com Amex Business I'm Emma.

Greed and I've spent the last 20 years building, running and investing in some incredible businesses. I've co founded a multi billion dollar unicorn and had my hand in several other companies that have generated hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. The more success I've had, the more people started coming to me with questions. How do you start a business? How do you raise money? How do I bounce back from failure? So it got me thinking. Why not just ask the people I aspire to the most? How did they actually do what they do? I'm so incredibly lucky to know some of the smartest minds out there. And now I'm bringing their insights along with mine, unfiltered directly to you. On my new podcast, Aspire with Emma Greed, I'll dive into the big questions everyone wants to know about success in business and in life through weekly conversations. You'll get the tangible tools, the real no BS stories and undeniable little hacks that actually help you level up. Listen to and follow Aspire with Emma Greed and Odyssey Podcast available now wherever you get your podcasts.